Shingeki no Kyojin: The Final Season Part 2 Episode 10 Discussion

Mar 13, 2022 9:45 AM

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Feb 2021

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"Oh, here we go again! ANOTHER AOT thread." Yeah, I know what that's what some people are thinking after seeing this lol, but I just wanna see your thoughts to this.

So far as a series, AOT's story has developed till this point positively and negatively to the fandom as a whole. So, I wanna pose this at y'all. Which developed or drove the story more: the plot or the characters?

Thanks as I see your responses.

Mar 13, 2022 9:53 AM

#52

rach1m4n

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Feb 2018

1112

deg said:
“There is no avoiding war; it can only be postponed to the advantage of others.”

― Niccolò Machiavelli, The Prince

so the 50 Year Plan is still the best

War will happen if there's participant, and there are factors that can starts the war. One of fundamental factors is the existence of humans itself, a creature that able to cause the war. But what if a madlad decide to wipe everything clean so there's no fucking war? That madlad is Eren, "theres no racism if there's no race left" is indeed sounds corny, but that's logical. Let's say Paradis who survives because of Rumbling is variable A,and those who oppose is variable B.

A(Paradis) + B(Opposition) = Clashing

It was stated by Jean that there's no need another bloodshed they got to through if they simply accept Eren mad idea. But there's this free-will and morale from Armin and Co. viewpoint. They continue this war with the alibi to end the war, but Yeagerist and Paradis also have alibi and it's the same end, it's to end the war. A will still being A if there's no B, and B literally establish their own existence with their very awareness.

Mar 13, 2022 9:55 AM

#53

ZXEAN

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Sep 2020

5341

AishaBi said:

ZXEAN said:

Why you keep on repeating same shit again and again bro. Yeagerist which is run by bunch of immature trainee can't do a shit against 4 Titan shifter and an Ackerman.

bruh wtf are you talking about? Not everyone are immatured trainees among Yeagerists. And doesn't matter how weak they are but there's no way yeagerists will lose dealing ABSOLUTELY ZERO DAMAGE.

I understand your complane but the defeat of the Yeagerist with 0 casualty from Alliance side is nothing surprising. This supprise attack was lead by the Alliance with proper planning. Imo Annie and Reiner alone could defeat the Yeagerist.

Mar 13, 2022 9:56 AM

#54

Modernoir

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May 2016

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KneelBeforeMe said:

adnan_ said:
FANTASTIC EPISODE. LOVED THE TENSION during Traitor sequence.

It's almost like they are just following what Scouts have already done? To always fight for "humanity"? Ig Scouts should apologize to you for being loyal to what they stand for. It also ain't like they were happy good shoes with Magath LMAO. If not for hange in the previous episode. A conflict would have started. It's not about killing their comrade but more about opposing xenophobia and supporting what Scouts stood for.

And Many of them are rookie recruits, a few of them cowards, like Daz, you can see it in their expression, for many of them the only real battle experience they had was in Marley. In addition, the weapons they have are old, the dispersion is greater than current weapons. All these factors justify the few secs of slow response from the soldiers, just before Mikasa shows up. It's not a big deal.

The scouts fought for humanity within the walls. not outside. Also, "opposing xenophobia", uh? We were literally shown guards in Marley in the previous episode that were still heavily racist and xenophobic towards Annie's dad and other eldians. Not to worry though, the savior Armin will bridge the differences between eldians and the rest of the world!

Again, allying with Marley because you want to prevent omnicide is understandable but it's still illogical in regards to what the scouts have put forth in terms of alternative solutions so far. But hey, now that Magath's home is about to get fucked without lube he suddenly regrets his warmongering against Paradis and we're suppose to feel bad for him and support his alliance with the scouts. Right.

abhiiinaav said:

totally agree with whatever you said

"whatever you said" is a good summary of op's argument.

The scouts fought for humanity within the walls. not outside. Also, "opposing xenophobia", uh?

"The scouts fought for humanity within the walls. not outside."
That's a very selective interpretaton. The scouts fought for freedom, the Garrison fought for humanity within the walls in a literal sense. They always fought for the advancement of humanity in the form of knowledge, that's ultimately what Erwin fought for: to find out the secrets of the basement and to prove his father's theory of humanity surviving beyond the walls. It's a presumption on either side to argue that the Scouts that died would support Eren or oppose him, I thought that was obvious because of the scene last week coming from Hange's perspective, of course there's bias: she was given the title of leader of the scouts for a reason by Erwin, I believe it was because of her bigger interest in wanting to understand the titans over eradicating them, why wouldn't she believe fighting to save the world in order to be able to understand it better is what the Scouts would do? The anime did a poor job by not showing chapter 123 to add to Hange's line last week "We can't go back to being the ignorant demons behind the walls." They lived in the outside world and got to learn there was so much else out there beyond just themselves. Why wouldn't she fight to oppose Eren's easier option of embracing ignorance?

>We were literally shown guards in Marley in the previous episode that were still heavily racist and xenophobic towards Annie's dad and other eldians.
We were also shown guards in the internment zone that were kind to Gabi and Falco enough to show concern for their safety during the raid. Is it so hard to believe prejudices can be overcame?

> Again, allying with Marley because you want to prevent omnicide is understandable but it's still illogical in regards to what the scouts have put forth in terms of alternative solutions so far. But hey, now that Magath's home is about to get fucked without lube he suddenly regrets his warmongering against Paradis and we're suppose to feel bad for him and support his alliance with the scouts. Right.
It's illogical more from the perspective that they're going against a ridiculously huge threat that is the Founding Titan and the Rumbling itself. It's not illogical at all for the characters to find the guilt of being the sole survivors on earth after just recently having their understanding of the entire world flipped on its head. We've seen throughout the final season, through his interactions with the warriors, Tybur, last episode and this episode too how Magath's views on Eldians have changed despite being one of the old guard (remember that the Great Titan War ended 100 years ago in the current timeline, its very likely Magath's family was actually affected by Eldian subjugation, I don't think people get that his lingering resentment isn't that unrealistic nor is it portrayed as right.) so it's not at all sudden. That's why Marco's words were the focal point of the last episode, to show how stupid their conflicts based on pre-judgement and fear are when ultimately if we were just able to communicate better things wouldn't have to get as bad as they did. Its repesentative of the real world as well, WW2's end didn't end war for good but that doesn't mean the soldiers that died for the allies' victory died for nothing. There's always a better solution than omnicide, and I think the characters have plenty of reason to believe that as well.

Also just a general thing but I was needlessly rude to you in previous weeks' episode discussions, my apologies for that, I do respect your viewpoints regardless.

Mar 13, 2022 9:57 AM

#55

CamelBow

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Nov 2020

1513

KneelBeforeMe said:
The scouts fought for humanity within the walls. not outside. Also, "opposing xenophobia", uh? We were literally shown guards in Marley in the previous episode that were still heavily racist and xenophobic towards Annie's dad and other eldians. Not to worry though, the savior Armin will bridge the differences between eldians and the rest of the world!

Again, allying with Marley because you want to prevent omnicide is understandable but it's still illogical in regards to what the scouts have put forth in terms of alternative solutions so far. But hey, now that Magath's home is about to get fucked without lube he suddenly regrets his warmongering against Paradis and we're suppose to feel bad for him and support his alliance with the scouts. Right.

Bro What?💀💀💀Can u give me a panel where Erwin, Shadis or any scout member ever said, they were fighting for JUST the humanity inside walls? Bc they have always fought for humanity as a whole and before Basement, it was just that their whole world was paradis while it is the whole Earth now. Scouts WERE NEVER NATIONALIST.

Sigh bro like we were not shown in literally that same episode that they wanna remove ignorance, wanna talk and know both sides to remove that xenophobia. BTW since u r bringing guards what about the guards that protected gabi? I mean according to u they all are xenophobic, right?

Hange quite literally had one and an extremely plausible one at that. And no boiling down to a character to feel bad for him or feel like shit for him is only u not trying to see the diverse writing of his character. Magath has been shown to evolve as a person throughout the flashbacks and the present, where we got to witness a racist man that felt like a cog in the machine and followed his role as a general of the imperialistic and fascist nation of Marley while at the same time having the dilemma of sending countless Eldian children into battle and the regret that eventually came with it, which allowed for him to try to change the way his own country operated, so even though Magath is a piece of shit, he still has a lot of depth and moral dilemmas within his character that actually makes him interesting. "Suddenly regrets" already explains ur understanding of his character and his dilemma.

Ignorance is the main problem of the narrative here. Ignorance bc Willy as you can see set up Paradisians as ultimate evil to free outer eldians as he himself said and there's a reason Hizuru declined hange's proposal. They declined bc it could have worked and Paradis would have got more allies due to which Hizuru's monopoly and a worldwide attack on them and Willy DoW would also be impossible. It would be more of a World war situation. The world was ignorant that's why they came for them. They were engulfed in propaganda woven by Marleyans and then Willy. You can see how world leaders reacted when Willy told them the truth of who actually saved the world but then he proceeded for more propaganda. Willy would have never needed to orchestrate so much stuff and sacrifice himself if "the world is coming for them no matter what".

Guess what scouts stand for. yeah, it's "Anti Ignorance". Add the whole Children in the forest theme here and u can get the answer yourself.

Lemme say a bit more wHaTeVeR

CamelBowMar 13, 2022 10:07 AM

═════════════════════════════
You're going to be all right. You just stumbled over a stone in the road.
It means nothing. Your goal lies far beyond this. Doesn't it?
I'm sure you'll overcome this.
You'll walk again... soon.
═════════════════════════════

Mar 13, 2022 9:57 AM

#56

imbAF

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Jan 2021

624

ZXEAN said:

AishaBi said:

bruh wtf are you talking about? Not everyone are immatured trainees among Yeagerists. And doesn't matter how weak they are but there's no way yeagerists will lose dealing ABSOLUTELY ZERO DAMAGE.

I understand your complane but the defeat of the Yeagerist with 0 casualty from Alliance side is nothing surprising. This supprise attack was lead by the Alliance with proper planning. Imo Annie and Reiner alone could defeat the Yeagerist.

CAAAP. I, myself said that 4 shifters + ackermans vs untrained troopers can have this result, but them surviving all, not very convincing. And LMAOOO, Annie and Reiner get both clapped in the next episode. So if they were alone vs the yeagerists, they would have been obliterated instantly

Mar 13, 2022 9:57 AM

#57

Nycro

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Jun 2015

474

Funny how the series went really downhill the moment Annie came back.

Mar 13, 2022 9:57 AM

#58

I_am_maso

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Nov 2020

254

BigHomieTrapa said:
"Oh, here we go again! ANOTHER AOT thread." Yeah, I know what that's what some people are thinking after seeing this lol, but I just wanna see your thoughts to this.

So far as a series, AOT's story has developed till this point positively and negatively to the fandom as a whole. So, I wanna pose this at y'all. Which developed or drove the story more: the plot or the characters?

Thanks as I see your responses.

both
plot was awesome
characters like eren and reiner are awesome

Mar 13, 2022 9:59 AM

#59

ZXEAN

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Sep 2020

5341

imbAF said:

ZXEAN said:

I understand your complane but the defeat of the Yeagerist with 0 casualty from Alliance side is nothing surprising. This supprise attack was lead by the Alliance with proper planning. Imo Annie and Reiner alone could defeat the Yeagerist.

CAAAP. I, myself said that 4 shifters + ackermans vs untrained troopers can have this result, but them surviving all, not very convincing. And LMAOOO, Annie and Reiner get both clapped in the next episode. So if they were alone vs the yeagerists, they would have been obliterated instantly

I mean in worst case scenario, it's nothing surprising if Isayama had take that route.

Mar 13, 2022 10:00 AM

#60

I_am_maso

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Nov 2020

254

Nycro said:
Funny how the series went really downhill the moment Annie came back.

care to explain how?
just cause it's not action doesn't mean its bad

Mar 13, 2022 10:00 AM

#61

Modernoir

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May 2016

1080

imbAF said:

Modernoir said:

imbAF said:

FMmatron said:
Great episode. The tension was real and I take this over the manga any day.

imbAF said:

deg said:

imbAF said:

deg said:
Connie did nothing wrong, he and the global alliance are not traitors

Omine did not storyboard this episode so i guess it shows even though he is the episode director

Connie is a cold blooded murderer. Daz, was shown as a very scared person, but when it came to protect the Trost district, while he was scared as hell, he fought because he had a sister and a family to protect. He then joins the yeagerists, because he things that that way he can protect his family. He was able to survive the terror of the titans only to be killed by some trash, who wants to protect people who want eldians dead. A fucking murderer

the global alliance is the lesser evil so lesser murderers in this case

So I guess if 1000 people want to kill you and your family for no reason at all, you will let them have their way with your family members, simply because they are more in number? You gonna tell your mom to take it because it's more virtuous to do so? Ok Jesus Christ

This is a laughably inadequate comparison since Eren wants to kill the entire population including countless innocent people, wanting to stop that is absolutely understandable. It's not like Connie shot Daz in cold blood. He was struggling with tears in his eyes and lost it. There wasn't much of a choice when Daz and Samuel got in the way of their mission. Besides, another second of hesitation could've costed his and Armins life. I will admit, tho, shooting Samuel was overkill and seemed to happen in the heat of the moment. Alas, they're soldiers and if you pick up a weapon you gotta be ready to face the consequences.

But you don't seem concerned with the world wanting to kill every single eldian. That's not a genocide I guess, right? Or is it and it's wrong? And something should be done to prevent that, and if killing the people who want to kill you is no good, then how does Paradis survive? Clue me in

By communicating. Did you not watch the last episode at all? How the group has come together despite being enemies because they've been united by something as objectively awful as GLOBAL GENOCIDE? Wars unite countries one way or another, and all wars end with the two conflicts having to talk. Imagine how few lives would be lost if that talking point happened sooner rather than after nukes or in this case pure unfiltered mass murder. Eren is killing people who have NOTHING to do with the conflict related to Eldians, he's worse than the titan that ate his mother at this point. Any solution is better than a genocide on this scale.

By communicating..hmmm? Like in chapter 123 where IT WAS POINTED OUT CLEARLY that different world leaders didn't want to have a discussion with the people in Paradis. Yeah...go read AOT again...By any solution is better then this, you mean, it's ok to kill the Eldians, because there are more racists in the world then there are Eldians?

It's a better plan than killing the entire fucking world, the majority of which have no stake in the current conflict despite Eldia subjugating the world for over a thousand years prior. Hange's plan to use the rumbling briefly to destroy Marley's forces would serve similarly as a nuclear deterrent like you see in the real world. It wouldn't erase fear of Eldians, but it'd buy them more time. They'd only just made contact with the rest of the world, diplomatic proceedings take time, but country's views on their enemies CAN and WILL change with time. Do we still hate the Germans for WW2? Then why is it harder to believe in a solution beyond omnicide?

Mar 13, 2022 10:00 AM

#62

CamelBow

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Nov 2020

1513

Nycro said:
Funny how the series went really downhill the moment Annie came back.

Funny how previous and this episode and episode after ymir's backstory were fking GREAT bc of how they moved forward the narrative and expanded the Children in the forest theme

═════════════════════════════
You're going to be all right. You just stumbled over a stone in the road.
It means nothing. Your goal lies far beyond this. Doesn't it?
I'm sure you'll overcome this.
You'll walk again... soon.
═════════════════════════════

Mar 13, 2022 10:00 AM

#63

deg

Offline

Jan 2009

101103

rach1m4n said:

deg said:
“There is no avoiding war; it can only be postponed to the advantage of others.”

― Niccolò Machiavelli, The Prince

so the 50 Year Plan is still the best

War will happen if there's participant, and there are factors that can starts the war. One of fundamental factors is the existence of humans itself, a creature that able to cause the war. But what if a madlad decide to wipe everything clean so there's no fucking war? That madlad is Eren, "theres no racism if there's no race left" is indeed sounds corny, but that's logical. Let's say Paradis who survives because of Rumbling is variable A,and those who oppose is variable B.

A(Paradis) + B(Opposition) = Clashing

It was stated by Jean that there's no need another bloodshed they got to through if they simply accept Eren mad idea. But there's this free-will and morale from Armin and Co. viewpoint. They continue this war with the alibi to end the war, but Yeagerist and Paradis also have alibi and it's the same end, it's to end the war. A will still being A if there's no B, and B literally establish their own existence with their very awareness.

there are 2 kinds of idea with nature and that is competition and cooperation

the point of human society is cooperation or coexistence as much as possible

Armin said it himself even if Paradis is the only human society that is left then war will still happen because of the titan curse so the problem is the titan curse itself

the 50 year plan and the advancement of anti titan weapons will make titan powers obsolete so it might become a different situation like in the real world today with Nuclear Deterrence like imagine every nation has Titan Powers too its similar to nukes right now anyway

Mar 13, 2022 10:00 AM

#64

imbAF

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Jan 2021

624

Nycro said:
Funny how the series went really downhill the moment Annie came back.

Lmao how was this episode downhill? You trippin bro?

Mar 13, 2022 10:01 AM

#65

Modernoir

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May 2016

1080

adnan_ said:

Nycro said:
Funny how the series went really downhill the moment Annie came back.

Funny how previous and this episode and episode after ymir's backstory were fking GREAT bc of how they moved forward the narrative and expanded the Children in the forest theme

Nothing makes me happier than seeing the adaptation's helped bring more people forward who can appreciate these chapters for what they bring and expand upon in the story.

Mar 13, 2022 10:02 AM

#66