Gibiate Episode 1 Discussion

kuroneko99 said:
It's unlikely that people believe the time travel nonsense in an instant. Also the monster transformed from a human radically violates mass conservation law.

zoejane said:
Clearly there are many holes in the show. Usually when someone tells you something outrageous like being from a whole different time period people ask lots of questions. Who knows, they could have totally lied about the whole thing. The dialog to me seems like it could get lengthy and whatnot, but who knows. The animation. Oh, the animation. The creatures are laughable. I don't expect much more out of the first episode but I will keep my mind open. Definitely a weird start in my opinion. Bless this show.

gaussian_ said:

How exactly did you come to that conclusion? Just because they are looking for a cure, and the best cures for viruses are vaccines doesn't mean that the entire purpose of the anime was to promote forced vaccination. Also, your assumption that vaccination never worked is clearly refuted by historical data. The fact that you (probably) never got measles, mumps, smallpox, diphtheria, rubella, whooping cough, or polio when you were growing up is evidence that vaccination works.
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The idea that a virus could mutate a person like that is clearly ridiculous. Also, no doctor worth their salt assumes that just because they have experienced one statistical anomaly in their lifetime means that all other anomalies are suddenly more probable. Ugly anime + no science background research for a pandemic show = dropped.

nightcrawlercyp said:
1. vaccines are not cures. Vaccines (assuming they worked) are preventive measures . It infects the body with a similar weaker or dead virus to develop antibodies. If you are already sick it will just make things worse.
2. There are generally no cures as far as I know for viruses. At most you can treat the symptoms and let the body fight it off, at worst you isolate the infected and those that survive gain immunity, those that die are burned or buried deep.
3. I never got those and neither got the vaccines.
4. With the exception of really inbred people and those that live in filthy conditions most of those viruses never posed any threat to anyone . They were considered normal. You staid two weeks at home in isolation did not scratch and that was that.
5. Diphtheria is caused by a bacteria not a virus and antibiotics solved that problem not vaccines.
6. polio was only a problem when a lot of people were living in very bad conditions i.e. damp humid and cold locations. Improvement of living conditions solved that not vaccines. Proper living conditions and proper food allowed the vast majority of people not to develop severe cases.
7. A retro-virus lab created could technically mutate a person to that level but it would generally be gradual over a number of years or at least months. The only way it could happen instantly would be if it is not a virus but a parasite that uses the human as incubator like wasps use spiders sometimes.
8. About statistical anomaly it depends how much it affected you on an emotional level and considering she is a small girl... but to put it plainly is called confirmation bias
9. Quarantine , better housing conditions meant the chance of a real pandemics was almost eliminated. The real pandemics I was expecting (as opposed to the fake cv19) would have been of VD. There was a big surge of antibiotic resistant VD in more liberal countries.

gaussian_ said:

1 - Correct.
2 - Also correct, with the exception of treating Hepatitis C. Antivirals can also help with influenza and some herpes virus infections.
3 - I assume that's correct :) The decreases in prevalence of those diseases in the population as a result of vaccination, a.k.a. herd immunity, helps protect unvaccinated individuals from infection.
4 - Measles has a sub 1% death rate. Mumps death rate is even lower. Smallpox is a threat to anyone who got it. Diphtheria also has a high death rate if untreated. Rubella had a low death rate, but causes birth defects if caught by a pregnant woman. Whooping cough is primarily dangerous to very young children, and can be treated with antibiotics since it is caused by bacteria. Polio has a low death rate but has nasty side effects in some cases, including side effects that may not surface until later in life.
5 - Diphtheria is caused by a bacteria, but antibiotics don't help much since it is the toxin that kills, much like tetanus. Treatment with the antitoxin was developed prior to antibiotics and worked quite well (the antitoxin is essentially an indirect vaccination, using horse antibodies against the toxin.)
6 - Polio was a problem throughout the U.S. in the 50's until the vaccine was developed, not just a problem in areas with bad living conditions.
7 - I find this unlikely, since messing with DNA often has unpredictable side effects, but I guess it is maybe possible in the future. The parasite choice would have been more palatable for this anime.
8 - I was referring to the doctor's acceptance of their time travel, not the girl's acceptance.
9 - Quarantine and better housing conditions have both done a lot to combat infectious disease in the world, but leaving vaccination out of the picture doesn't make sense to me. A VD pandemic has already spread throughout the world (HIV) and I wouldn't be surprised to see future VD pandemics. You are correct in that you could consider antibiotic resistant VD to be a pandemic, in particular gonorrhea.

nightcrawlercyp said:
6. is highly debatable whether vaccination helped or not. Some data show mass vaccination only started when polio was already almost eradicated (similar to the famous event with the native americans) some show the virus was still raging. What is clear is no double blind tests were done for any vaccines and that there epidemics like the one at disneyland a while back show that a) vaccines do not prevent the disease as much as advertised b) one can get infected from the vaccine c) most people can fight those diseases even without the vaccine
9. there were ample reports of antibiotic resistant gonorrhea until this so called pandemics. About HIV is interesting at the beginning only affected gay men. It spread through the rest of the population apparently trough the activity of a few evil gay men that used needles and others to intentionally infect people , there was even a scare because people believed this type of activity to be more large scale than it was. It is also interesting everything points to it being manufactured in the lab, similar to ebola.

gaussian_ said:

Although double-blind tests may not have been performed with vaccine, I'm not bothered because I don't think there would be a good way to design a double-blind test for vaccination without intentionally exposing people to an infection. That would clearly violate the do no harm ethic of medicine. It is true that vaccine proponents should be more honest about the fact that a vaccination doesn't guarantee permanent immunity from contracting a disease, and may not confer immunity in some people in rare cases. If a vaccine uses an attenuated virus, you can indeed get infected, which is why immunocompromised individuals can't be vaccinated. However, the likelihood of infection in the average individual is much lower than the likelihood of immunity, so statistically it is safer to vaccinate than to not vaccinate. Many people can indeed fight the diseases without vaccination, which is why vaccination is generally referred to as a public health measure. It does protect the individual, but even more it protects the public by generating herd immunity.

By pandemic of gonorrhea, I was referring to the spread of those initially reported infections throughout the world.

My understanding of HIV spread is a little different. The strain that was predominant in the U.S. (I think it is called HIV-1 in the literature) was primarily spread by gay sex (and still is, though I don't know for certain which strain is predominant in the U.S. right now.) There definitely were some evil men who purposefully spread the disease, but most of the spread happened as a result of consensual sex and illegal drug use where the needle sharing wasn't with the intent of spreading the virus. A second wave of spread occurred through blood donation, primarily clotting factor concentrates since they pooled multiple donors into one product. By contrast, in Africa the HIV-2 strain was dominant, which spread well through heterosexual sex. It's spread was driven in part by prevalent prostitution. That's part of why HIV in Africa caused much more devastation to society, since it spread to everyone instead of just to a subgroup of the population (other factors being lower standard of living and inability to pay for antiretroviral treatments.) The scientific consensus is that HIV spread to humans from chimpanzees, likely in the early 1900's. It spread out of Africa in the 60's (if I recall correctly) and became prevalent enough to be noticed in the 80's. I'm recalling these facts from the book Spillover, which is a nice non-fiction read. It's been a while since I read it, so there may be some details I've missed. I personally don't think HIV was created in a lab, especially since there are clearly two predominant strains (one would think a lab created virus wouldn't show signs of evolutionary divergence,) but it isn't impossible that it was. Ebola seems a better candidate for the argument of a lab-created virus to me since it's natural reservoir host still hasn't been found (though bats are suspected.)

Nainu_ said:
Alright, I went in blind to this anime. Right now, my expections are in the middle or quite low. 3D animation is really bad, like much more bad than Ajin and Dorohedoro. But, as always I can manage.

I'm quite surprised how they actually believed Sensui and the Shinobi guy that quick. Based on the reasoning from Yoshinaga that it is not since that samurai and a ninja exists in this post-apocalyptic world.

However, that really is illogical, you don't just believe right away. Only Adam reacted that they're crazy. Cathleen and others quickly believed it. To me, in order for their story to check it is to prove it.

Well, that's that. I'll keep watching it.