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May 23, 2018 10:56 AM
#51
Aezeryel said: SethBigBoss said: Aezeryel said: SethBigBoss said: Aezeryel said: SethBigBoss said: Aezeryel said: SethBigBoss said: Aezeryel said: SethBigBoss said: Amazing fight and amazing chapter. For those who underestimate Furuta and that he should lose easily you have to consider that: -He was trained like Arima during his youth -His skills was praised by Arima -He has the advantages of a half human+ advantages of Rize's kagune -He is smart -Kaneki doesn't know his abilities (same for the readers by the way...) so he has the element of surprise -Nobody knows his Rc level -He was able to defeat Eto, a SSS ghoul,not in the best of shape but still able to create a huge kakuja and wipe the floor with V's special agents. Despite that I think now that Kaneki has released his kakuja Furuta is going to be slaughtered. Hairu was also trained in the same way, yet got slaughtered. Kaneki was trained by Arima himself. He has advantage of being a half-human. On the kagune side, Kaneki has the advantage. If you remember, Kaneki is also smart, being able to learn how to fight simply by reading about it. The element of surprise pretty much disappeared once he showed his kagune. His RC level can't really be much higher than that of Kaneki in the prequel, considering they have the same kagune. Kaneki should have a much, much higher RC level than him. He did defeat Eto, but I've said a number of times already that was mere plot convenience. No matter how you look at it, Eto should have obliterated him. The only thing in which Furuta has truly an advantage over Kaneki is trolling. No one can match him in that. Are you going to say that Hairu's skills weren't impressive ? it's seems like they all followed the same training but there are some who stand out, like Arima and quite obviously Furuta. You ignore the fact that Arima praised his skills while still a child despite the fact that this single element shows that Furuta is impressive? ok whatever. He has the advantage of being a half human, the advantage of being a washuu which implies having from birth powerful Rc cells, you add to that Rize's kagune (a washuu, powerfull Rc cells) and it's obvious that Furuta is damn strong so even though on the kagune side Kaneki has the advantage he must still be wary of Furuta. Yeah Kaneki is smart but smarter than Furuta? I don't think so, Kaneki himself said it in this chapter. "His RC level can't really be much higher than that of Kaneki in the prequel, considering they have the same kagune" they have the same kagune yeah but like I said above Furuta is a washuu while Kaneki was a simple human at the start, so Furuta from his birth has powerfull Rc cells, an "natural born kakuja" so obviously his Rc level is higher than Kaneki's in the prequel. He defeat Eto thanks to the element of surprise and that he's strong that's all. I'm not saying that Furuta is stronger than Kaneki, I think the opposite but Furuta is strong enough to not lose easily. Considering Hairu got killed by a S? rated ghoul, and Arima outmatched three SS~ rated ghouls, not so impressive. Arima was still far above Furuta, and yet Kaneki managed to defeat him. He said "His form is quite good".... That doesn't suddenly make Furuta a fighting genius. As I've said in another comment, we had no indication that half humans had a higher RC level, meaning it would have no effect on implanted kagune. I never said he was smarter than Furuta, just that he was smart. Again, being half human doesn't mean higher RC level.In fact, it should be impossible for them to have higher RC level than ordinary humans. Why? Because we saw what happened to ordinary humans who had higher RC level than they should have (Shirazu's sister). Half humans/demi-humans don't have a kakohou to store that excess of RC cells, which would mean that the same thing should happen to them as well. We even have Saiko, a Quinx being affected by that. Element of surprise, huh. I've already proven that Eto should have won in another thread, but I'll entertain you as well. First off, the moment Furuta released his kagune, the element of surprise was completely gone, cause Eto knew exactly what type of kagune it was and what it was capable of. Second argument - RC suppressants. Despite being under the suppressants, she managed to whip out an enormous kakuja just from a bit of a food (her editor). Now, she had dozens of dead V agents lying around which she could have eaten. Argument no. 3 - intelligence. Eto was far smarter than Furuta, proven by being a best-selling author, finding Kanou's hideout, figuring out Furuta was a Clown and working with Kanou, being far more proficient in kagune manipulation, i.e. she managed to create a semi-detachable kagune. Final argument - Eto's speed. As we saw in the prequel, Eto was fast enough that not even other ghouls could react to her speed (Banjou and Yasuhisa sisters). Even taking into consideration that Furuta was possibly faster than them, Eto should still have been far faster than him, and along with the other arguments that I provided that puts her in a more than likely position to win. And you do realize Kaneki could have simply killed Furuta at the beginning of the fight instead of merely taking his mask off, which would count as the element of surprise you are so insistent on? What makes you say that Arima was far above Furuta ? Because until now we didn't know what Furuta was capable of, plus the fact that Kaneki (without his kakuja) struggle against him means he's not THAT far from Arima. The fact that he praised his skills shows that he was strong enough to stand out in the eyes of a genius like Arima, and in general the more you train the more you become strong so it's quite possible that with the time Furuta has become a fighting genius. But Furuta isn't just a ordinary half human, he's a washuu so he has the genetic mutation unlike a ordinary half human from a simple human and a ghoul, and it's not because he's not a pure blood that the genetics would have completely disappeared so he has from the birth powerfull Rc cells, maybe not as a pure blood but still. Half humans are registered as ghouls when passing through the Rc Scan Gates so that's means despite the fact to not have a kakuhou the Rc scan gates would still react to them because of their Rc cells ( because the majority of half humans are illegitimate children from the Washuu so they have higher rc cells level than humans) , that's why the gates have been modified. Because why the gates would react to them if their rc levels is like humans's rc level ?That doesn't make sense. First off, the moment Furuta released his kagune Eto's kakuja was immediately destroyed, so do you think that under the effect of the rc suppressant and almost without food she would have been able to make another enormous kakuja? Probably not, it was the biggest kakuja we've ever seen with Eto it's impossible that she was able to make another one just with a paté that Furuta gave her before. Secondly now that her kakuja was destroyed do you really think that she was able to defend herserf against Furuta ? Probably not, Furuta didn't seem to have really suffered against her. Like Roma once she loses her kakuja she is much more vulnerable. Thirdly, intelligence, both are smart, Furuta was able to infiltrate clowns, was able to manipulate the CCG to move from rank 1 investigator to the head of the ccg and so plan the massacre of ghouls, to carry out his plan concerning the dragon's stuff and that from the start of TG. Eto was omnibulated by the fact to kill Furuta that's maybe why she didn't think about eating corpses on the ground or maybe Furuta didn't allow her to do it or whatever, because like you said Eto is smart and I don't think she would be foolish enough to eat while she has an enemy of whom she knows nothing in front of her. So yeah Furuta won because of the element of surprise because as soon as he had succeeded to destroy Eto's kakuja the fight was already done. Even if you say that she should have been able to defend herself without kakuja like against Karen it would not have been enough against Rize's kagune. If Furuta and Eto fight again Eto would probably win but in the circumstances of her fight against Furuta her defeat makes sense Yeah I agree Kaneki could have won but he didn't do it that's why now he's forced to take out his kakuja because Furuta is that strong. And so was Hairu, yet she showed nothing remarkable despite her "powerful" bloodline. You seem to have formed a misconception. RC cells are not powerful or weak. What matters is the cell count. Back to my original point, it's completely irrelevant what was Furuta's RC level before or after the surgery. After the current events it cannot come even close to Kaneki's. Of course she wouldn't be able to create another one. I never said she should do that. That would be incredibly stupid thing to do, especially for someone as intelligent as Eto. She would definitely be able to defend herself long enough to eat some of the dead V agents and restore her RC cells. Furuta "creating" the dragon Kaneki is pure bullshit, cause that literally required him to be able to see in the future. Nope, completely wrong. Eto never let rage take control of her, cause she's not stupid enough to let herself be consumed by rage simply because of her respect towards her editor. "Of whom she knows nothing about"... dear God. I already said she knew he was a Clown, she probably knew he was a half-human as well, and she knew exactly what kind of kagune did he have. How does that amount to knowing nothing about him? With the level of kagune manipulation Eto could have easily produced more tentacles than Furuta could, so yeah, she could have defended against his/Rize's kagune. And how convenient that you ignored my argument about Eto's superior speed. Everyone seems to do that for some reason.... Her skills was above most of the investigator, she isn't dead because she was weak but because of the enemies's teamwork, her attitude etc.. this isn't just about strenght, Urie killed Roma despite the fact that she was a SSS ghoul but that doesn't mean that Roma was weaker or whatever she lost because of her attitude. I think Amon has a higher Rc level than Takizawa despite that he lost against Takizawa so everything is possible with Kaneki and Furuta. You know that making a kakuja is exhausting for a ghoul right? There is no way that she was able to fight correctly once Furuta destroyed her kakuja, she just ate a paté and was under the suppressants... Furuta's kagune was able to pass through her kakuja and you think that she could defend herself against that again but this time without her kakuja?No...come on. Yeah right she just chased Furuta through the building, killed V's investigators without paying attention to them without any resentment ? No, she was clearly affected by the fate of her editor and Furuta himself notice it by saying if she wanted him to apologize, to calm down etc... She knew he was a clown and that he has a kagune...that's amazing, and ? Does that tell her what he's capable with Rize's kagune, his imagination, his skills, his tactics, etc....No, so she didn't know anything about him or if you prefer she knew nothing about his fighting skills. "And how convenient that you ignored my argument about Eto's superior speed" superior speed while being exhausted ? It seemed logical to me that her speed wasn't at the best with the suppressants and just a paté so I didn't think it was necessary to talk about it since I already said that she wasn't at her best. Speaking about speed, Kaneki was able to keep with her SUPERIOR SPEED while he didn't have his kakuja, he was just using his basic kagune, amazing no ? So why not Furuta? Because you don't like him ? that's not a good reason. Urie winning against Roma is another bullshit fight. I get him winning against Shikorae (a character so epically wasted Hiro Mashima wanted him for FT) who wasn't really even a proper fighter. But against Roma is just plain bullshit. He barely won against Donato's clone ffs. Probably, but Amon was a floppy, and if I remember correctly, floppies couldn't utilize their kagune properly. Nope, haven't heard of that. Could you provide where you saw that piece of info? Yeah, because that very same kagune can be blocked by a mere sword quinqe, but not by kagune of one of the strongest ghouls in the series..... Furuta is a troll and simply wanted to buy time for a perfect moment to launch his surprise attack. "so she didn't know anything about him or if you prefer she knew nothing about his fighting skills." Two different things. And again wrong. She knew exactly what that kagune was capable of cause she fought it. It's not like Furuta could suddenly create 20 tentacles or detach it or whatever. She knew nothing of his personal fighting style, but that goes both ways. Exhausted? How was she exhausted 2 minutes into the fight? Yoshimura in his old age managed to last more than 10 minutes, possibly even half an hour and you say that Eto was exhausted after such a short time? Based on what? Where does it say that RC suppressants affect ghouls physical abilities? Provide me some proof please. Kaneki was able to keep up with her speed? When? Cause, from what I remember, she only showed that speed against Banjou and the Yasuhisa sisters. Oh look, another wrong assumption. Never once did I say I don't like Furuta. At first I actually liked him, but his repetitive jokes have become somewhat dull and his ability to predict the future to an extent was annoying, but beside that I don't have anything against him. Tatara is the one I don't like. The guy was a one-dimensional character. Urie didn't beat Roma because he was stronger than her but because she was an idiot, you can be as strong as you want if you don't take a fight seriously you might lose, that's what happened. I don't see any bullshit in this fight, Roma has always been an idiot that wasn't something new, but keep thinking that it's bullshit if you want I don't want to start another debate... Amon used a kakuja and beat Kurona just before, during this match he had no problem. We can put his defeat on the fact that he had lost control and that he couldn't fight logically but Takizawa with a lower rc level was still able to beat a stronger kakuja. Chapter 137 page 1 on mangastream "you're probably pretty hungry huh ? In your kakuja form and all". Even without that that seems logical that making a kakuja is exhausting with almost no food and under the suppressants, it takes a lot of rc cell just to make one kakuja so making an enormous like Eto did must logically be tiring for her, a ghoul's stamina isn't unlimited and the conditions under which Eto was should only make it worse. If Furuta's kagune pass through a kakuja that is basically an armor and one of the strongest kakuja then his kagune will pass through her basic kagune which is under the suppresants which affected the activity of the kakuhou...you make the conversation last for nothing here. Furuta knew how Eto fights and what she was capable of, she had already fought the ccg on several occasions and reports on these fights should normally be archived while Eto didn't know how many tentacles he can do and how he would use them, and I don't know it either and the same goes for you. Kaneki beat Eto with 6 tentacles and I don't think it's an untouchable number for Furuta, we have already seen how monstrous his kagune can be. And we don't know if he can detach it or not... Jason injected rc suppressants through Kaneki's eyes to make his body weaker to be able to torture him if I'm not wrong. and even if she was still in possession of all her physical abilities Furuta has the abilites of a half human, he's not Banjo (not a fighter) or Yasuhisa sisters( not yet that strong) so using them as a reference for Eto's speed isn't the best. Ah I thought you were talking about Eto's speed in general, with a kakuja or not. I was referring to the fight between Kaneki and Eto when he wrecked her with rize's kagune, without using a kakuja. Ah and don't tell me she is faster without her kakuja, that doesn't make sense...maybe she would be more stealthy but not faster. Impaled through the throat an abdomen several times, head slammed into a wall by a giant kakuja arm, punched by that same kakuja arm and slammed into the floor, and took another barrage of attacks by Roma and Skiroae simultaneously. Yup, definitely no bullshit there. Shall I also mention how Roma simply swallowed him instead of using those giant teeth of her kakuja to rip him to shreds? Hungry is not the same as exhausted, but okay, let's say Eto got a little tired after making that kakuja. That still doesn't mean she couldn't create something to defend herself long enough to get some "refreshments". And that is my point. I'm not talking about continuously fighting Furuta, just defending herself long enough to back up and eat something, which should be easily doable. Yes, but Eto is a natural OEG, which are stated to be stronger than ordinary ghouls, so you can't really compare Kaneki's strength to Eto's. Again, I allowed for Furuta to be actually faster than the Yasuhisa sisters, there's still no indication whatsover that he could reach or even react to that level of speed. Nope, just her speed without kakuja. And she is faster that way. Kakuja should be pretty heavy, and as such cannot possibly gain the same speed. Maybe with enough momentum (her 'flight' and crash during the Anteiku raid arc), but within small spaces not a chance. It makes sense, it's basic physics. The thing is, Furuta lived so far only because he's the main antagonist. He should have died twice just in this fight (against Kaneki, not Eto) alone. Urie is just used to taking blows...like against Amon or Donato, this isn't the first time that a character takes damage that seems fatal to finally survive. After that you'll surely tell me "Urie is a quinx he shouldn't be able to survive that" Urie framed out so he normally has the same attributes as a ghoul and we know that there are ghouls that are quite resistant because the regenerative ability varies among individual, and even without it we have already seen Quinx take a lot of damage without dying, against Amon where Hsiao was impaled and Higemaru was half in a wall... Like I said, Roma is an idiot...just an idiot, what she did doesn't go out of her character so I don't see any problem here, it would be bullshit if Roma had a serious personality and at this very moment behaves like an idiot. If you don't agree with me then never mind I really don't want to debate further than that. I would like you to tell me what she could have done to defend herself while her kakuja wasn't enough against Furuta's kagune, just how ?A kakuja is supposed to be the most solid thing because it's supposed to be like an armor that protects the ghoul. Then, you really think that Furuta would have left Eto eat a corpse like that or on the contrary would have done anything to prevent it? He's not stupid he wouldn't take this risk so it's more likely that he didn't leave any opening and his type of kagune is perfect for that since it can attack from several directions and therefore more places that Eto had to protect. And please this time take into account the suppressants which are supposed to disrupt or even remove the activation of the kakuhou. Well, there's no indication whatsoever that he couldn't reach or even doesn't react to this so called speed that was used just once against small opponents. As a kakuja Eto uses four members who are very long so that should offset the loss of speed if there is one, and a kakuja is basically a lot of muscle so more power to run, attack, jump, ect. We can say the same thing for Kaneki, he lived so far because he's the main protagonistes. Twice? Just once, when Kaneki could have use the element of surprise to tear off his head. If you don't think you can change your mind then let's stop here because I'm sure Eto's defeat makes sense, even if it's entertaining to argue like that I feel like it's going nowhere and we're wasting our time. |
SoukaTheRealMay 23, 2018 11:07 AM
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May 23, 2018 12:06 PM
#52
SethBigBoss said: Aezeryel said: SethBigBoss said: Aezeryel said: SethBigBoss said: Aezeryel said: SethBigBoss said: Aezeryel said: SethBigBoss said: Aezeryel said: SethBigBoss said: Amazing fight and amazing chapter. For those who underestimate Furuta and that he should lose easily you have to consider that: -He was trained like Arima during his youth -His skills was praised by Arima -He has the advantages of a half human+ advantages of Rize's kagune -He is smart -Kaneki doesn't know his abilities (same for the readers by the way...) so he has the element of surprise -Nobody knows his Rc level -He was able to defeat Eto, a SSS ghoul,not in the best of shape but still able to create a huge kakuja and wipe the floor with V's special agents. Despite that I think now that Kaneki has released his kakuja Furuta is going to be slaughtered. Hairu was also trained in the same way, yet got slaughtered. Kaneki was trained by Arima himself. He has advantage of being a half-human. On the kagune side, Kaneki has the advantage. If you remember, Kaneki is also smart, being able to learn how to fight simply by reading about it. The element of surprise pretty much disappeared once he showed his kagune. His RC level can't really be much higher than that of Kaneki in the prequel, considering they have the same kagune. Kaneki should have a much, much higher RC level than him. He did defeat Eto, but I've said a number of times already that was mere plot convenience. No matter how you look at it, Eto should have obliterated him. The only thing in which Furuta has truly an advantage over Kaneki is trolling. No one can match him in that. Are you going to say that Hairu's skills weren't impressive ? it's seems like they all followed the same training but there are some who stand out, like Arima and quite obviously Furuta. You ignore the fact that Arima praised his skills while still a child despite the fact that this single element shows that Furuta is impressive? ok whatever. He has the advantage of being a half human, the advantage of being a washuu which implies having from birth powerful Rc cells, you add to that Rize's kagune (a washuu, powerfull Rc cells) and it's obvious that Furuta is damn strong so even though on the kagune side Kaneki has the advantage he must still be wary of Furuta. Yeah Kaneki is smart but smarter than Furuta? I don't think so, Kaneki himself said it in this chapter. "His RC level can't really be much higher than that of Kaneki in the prequel, considering they have the same kagune" they have the same kagune yeah but like I said above Furuta is a washuu while Kaneki was a simple human at the start, so Furuta from his birth has powerfull Rc cells, an "natural born kakuja" so obviously his Rc level is higher than Kaneki's in the prequel. He defeat Eto thanks to the element of surprise and that he's strong that's all. I'm not saying that Furuta is stronger than Kaneki, I think the opposite but Furuta is strong enough to not lose easily. Considering Hairu got killed by a S? rated ghoul, and Arima outmatched three SS~ rated ghouls, not so impressive. Arima was still far above Furuta, and yet Kaneki managed to defeat him. He said "His form is quite good".... That doesn't suddenly make Furuta a fighting genius. As I've said in another comment, we had no indication that half humans had a higher RC level, meaning it would have no effect on implanted kagune. I never said he was smarter than Furuta, just that he was smart. Again, being half human doesn't mean higher RC level.In fact, it should be impossible for them to have higher RC level than ordinary humans. Why? Because we saw what happened to ordinary humans who had higher RC level than they should have (Shirazu's sister). Half humans/demi-humans don't have a kakohou to store that excess of RC cells, which would mean that the same thing should happen to them as well. We even have Saiko, a Quinx being affected by that. Element of surprise, huh. I've already proven that Eto should have won in another thread, but I'll entertain you as well. First off, the moment Furuta released his kagune, the element of surprise was completely gone, cause Eto knew exactly what type of kagune it was and what it was capable of. Second argument - RC suppressants. Despite being under the suppressants, she managed to whip out an enormous kakuja just from a bit of a food (her editor). Now, she had dozens of dead V agents lying around which she could have eaten. Argument no. 3 - intelligence. Eto was far smarter than Furuta, proven by being a best-selling author, finding Kanou's hideout, figuring out Furuta was a Clown and working with Kanou, being far more proficient in kagune manipulation, i.e. she managed to create a semi-detachable kagune. Final argument - Eto's speed. As we saw in the prequel, Eto was fast enough that not even other ghouls could react to her speed (Banjou and Yasuhisa sisters). Even taking into consideration that Furuta was possibly faster than them, Eto should still have been far faster than him, and along with the other arguments that I provided that puts her in a more than likely position to win. And you do realize Kaneki could have simply killed Furuta at the beginning of the fight instead of merely taking his mask off, which would count as the element of surprise you are so insistent on? What makes you say that Arima was far above Furuta ? Because until now we didn't know what Furuta was capable of, plus the fact that Kaneki (without his kakuja) struggle against him means he's not THAT far from Arima. The fact that he praised his skills shows that he was strong enough to stand out in the eyes of a genius like Arima, and in general the more you train the more you become strong so it's quite possible that with the time Furuta has become a fighting genius. But Furuta isn't just a ordinary half human, he's a washuu so he has the genetic mutation unlike a ordinary half human from a simple human and a ghoul, and it's not because he's not a pure blood that the genetics would have completely disappeared so he has from the birth powerfull Rc cells, maybe not as a pure blood but still. Half humans are registered as ghouls when passing through the Rc Scan Gates so that's means despite the fact to not have a kakuhou the Rc scan gates would still react to them because of their Rc cells ( because the majority of half humans are illegitimate children from the Washuu so they have higher rc cells level than humans) , that's why the gates have been modified. Because why the gates would react to them if their rc levels is like humans's rc level ?That doesn't make sense. First off, the moment Furuta released his kagune Eto's kakuja was immediately destroyed, so do you think that under the effect of the rc suppressant and almost without food she would have been able to make another enormous kakuja? Probably not, it was the biggest kakuja we've ever seen with Eto it's impossible that she was able to make another one just with a paté that Furuta gave her before. Secondly now that her kakuja was destroyed do you really think that she was able to defend herserf against Furuta ? Probably not, Furuta didn't seem to have really suffered against her. Like Roma once she loses her kakuja she is much more vulnerable. Thirdly, intelligence, both are smart, Furuta was able to infiltrate clowns, was able to manipulate the CCG to move from rank 1 investigator to the head of the ccg and so plan the massacre of ghouls, to carry out his plan concerning the dragon's stuff and that from the start of TG. Eto was omnibulated by the fact to kill Furuta that's maybe why she didn't think about eating corpses on the ground or maybe Furuta didn't allow her to do it or whatever, because like you said Eto is smart and I don't think she would be foolish enough to eat while she has an enemy of whom she knows nothing in front of her. So yeah Furuta won because of the element of surprise because as soon as he had succeeded to destroy Eto's kakuja the fight was already done. Even if you say that she should have been able to defend herself without kakuja like against Karen it would not have been enough against Rize's kagune. If Furuta and Eto fight again Eto would probably win but in the circumstances of her fight against Furuta her defeat makes sense Yeah I agree Kaneki could have won but he didn't do it that's why now he's forced to take out his kakuja because Furuta is that strong. And so was Hairu, yet she showed nothing remarkable despite her "powerful" bloodline. You seem to have formed a misconception. RC cells are not powerful or weak. What matters is the cell count. Back to my original point, it's completely irrelevant what was Furuta's RC level before or after the surgery. After the current events it cannot come even close to Kaneki's. Of course she wouldn't be able to create another one. I never said she should do that. That would be incredibly stupid thing to do, especially for someone as intelligent as Eto. She would definitely be able to defend herself long enough to eat some of the dead V agents and restore her RC cells. Furuta "creating" the dragon Kaneki is pure bullshit, cause that literally required him to be able to see in the future. Nope, completely wrong. Eto never let rage take control of her, cause she's not stupid enough to let herself be consumed by rage simply because of her respect towards her editor. "Of whom she knows nothing about"... dear God. I already said she knew he was a Clown, she probably knew he was a half-human as well, and she knew exactly what kind of kagune did he have. How does that amount to knowing nothing about him? With the level of kagune manipulation Eto could have easily produced more tentacles than Furuta could, so yeah, she could have defended against his/Rize's kagune. And how convenient that you ignored my argument about Eto's superior speed. Everyone seems to do that for some reason.... Her skills was above most of the investigator, she isn't dead because she was weak but because of the enemies's teamwork, her attitude etc.. this isn't just about strenght, Urie killed Roma despite the fact that she was a SSS ghoul but that doesn't mean that Roma was weaker or whatever she lost because of her attitude. I think Amon has a higher Rc level than Takizawa despite that he lost against Takizawa so everything is possible with Kaneki and Furuta. You know that making a kakuja is exhausting for a ghoul right? There is no way that she was able to fight correctly once Furuta destroyed her kakuja, she just ate a paté and was under the suppressants... Furuta's kagune was able to pass through her kakuja and you think that she could defend herself against that again but this time without her kakuja?No...come on. Yeah right she just chased Furuta through the building, killed V's investigators without paying attention to them without any resentment ? No, she was clearly affected by the fate of her editor and Furuta himself notice it by saying if she wanted him to apologize, to calm down etc... She knew he was a clown and that he has a kagune...that's amazing, and ? Does that tell her what he's capable with Rize's kagune, his imagination, his skills, his tactics, etc....No, so she didn't know anything about him or if you prefer she knew nothing about his fighting skills. "And how convenient that you ignored my argument about Eto's superior speed" superior speed while being exhausted ? It seemed logical to me that her speed wasn't at the best with the suppressants and just a paté so I didn't think it was necessary to talk about it since I already said that she wasn't at her best. Speaking about speed, Kaneki was able to keep with her SUPERIOR SPEED while he didn't have his kakuja, he was just using his basic kagune, amazing no ? So why not Furuta? Because you don't like him ? that's not a good reason. Urie winning against Roma is another bullshit fight. I get him winning against Shikorae (a character so epically wasted Hiro Mashima wanted him for FT) who wasn't really even a proper fighter. But against Roma is just plain bullshit. He barely won against Donato's clone ffs. Probably, but Amon was a floppy, and if I remember correctly, floppies couldn't utilize their kagune properly. Nope, haven't heard of that. Could you provide where you saw that piece of info? Yeah, because that very same kagune can be blocked by a mere sword quinqe, but not by kagune of one of the strongest ghouls in the series..... Furuta is a troll and simply wanted to buy time for a perfect moment to launch his surprise attack. "so she didn't know anything about him or if you prefer she knew nothing about his fighting skills." Two different things. And again wrong. She knew exactly what that kagune was capable of cause she fought it. It's not like Furuta could suddenly create 20 tentacles or detach it or whatever. She knew nothing of his personal fighting style, but that goes both ways. Exhausted? How was she exhausted 2 minutes into the fight? Yoshimura in his old age managed to last more than 10 minutes, possibly even half an hour and you say that Eto was exhausted after such a short time? Based on what? Where does it say that RC suppressants affect ghouls physical abilities? Provide me some proof please. Kaneki was able to keep up with her speed? When? Cause, from what I remember, she only showed that speed against Banjou and the Yasuhisa sisters. Oh look, another wrong assumption. Never once did I say I don't like Furuta. At first I actually liked him, but his repetitive jokes have become somewhat dull and his ability to predict the future to an extent was annoying, but beside that I don't have anything against him. Tatara is the one I don't like. The guy was a one-dimensional character. Urie didn't beat Roma because he was stronger than her but because she was an idiot, you can be as strong as you want if you don't take a fight seriously you might lose, that's what happened. I don't see any bullshit in this fight, Roma has always been an idiot that wasn't something new, but keep thinking that it's bullshit if you want I don't want to start another debate... Amon used a kakuja and beat Kurona just before, during this match he had no problem. We can put his defeat on the fact that he had lost control and that he couldn't fight logically but Takizawa with a lower rc level was still able to beat a stronger kakuja. Chapter 137 page 1 on mangastream "you're probably pretty hungry huh ? In your kakuja form and all". Even without that that seems logical that making a kakuja is exhausting with almost no food and under the suppressants, it takes a lot of rc cell just to make one kakuja so making an enormous like Eto did must logically be tiring for her, a ghoul's stamina isn't unlimited and the conditions under which Eto was should only make it worse. If Furuta's kagune pass through a kakuja that is basically an armor and one of the strongest kakuja then his kagune will pass through her basic kagune which is under the suppresants which affected the activity of the kakuhou...you make the conversation last for nothing here. Furuta knew how Eto fights and what she was capable of, she had already fought the ccg on several occasions and reports on these fights should normally be archived while Eto didn't know how many tentacles he can do and how he would use them, and I don't know it either and the same goes for you. Kaneki beat Eto with 6 tentacles and I don't think it's an untouchable number for Furuta, we have already seen how monstrous his kagune can be. And we don't know if he can detach it or not... Jason injected rc suppressants through Kaneki's eyes to make his body weaker to be able to torture him if I'm not wrong. and even if she was still in possession of all her physical abilities Furuta has the abilites of a half human, he's not Banjo (not a fighter) or Yasuhisa sisters( not yet that strong) so using them as a reference for Eto's speed isn't the best. Ah I thought you were talking about Eto's speed in general, with a kakuja or not. I was referring to the fight between Kaneki and Eto when he wrecked her with rize's kagune, without using a kakuja. Ah and don't tell me she is faster without her kakuja, that doesn't make sense...maybe she would be more stealthy but not faster. Impaled through the throat an abdomen several times, head slammed into a wall by a giant kakuja arm, punched by that same kakuja arm and slammed into the floor, and took another barrage of attacks by Roma and Skiroae simultaneously. Yup, definitely no bullshit there. Shall I also mention how Roma simply swallowed him instead of using those giant teeth of her kakuja to rip him to shreds? Hungry is not the same as exhausted, but okay, let's say Eto got a little tired after making that kakuja. That still doesn't mean she couldn't create something to defend herself long enough to get some "refreshments". And that is my point. I'm not talking about continuously fighting Furuta, just defending herself long enough to back up and eat something, which should be easily doable. Yes, but Eto is a natural OEG, which are stated to be stronger than ordinary ghouls, so you can't really compare Kaneki's strength to Eto's. Again, I allowed for Furuta to be actually faster than the Yasuhisa sisters, there's still no indication whatsover that he could reach or even react to that level of speed. Nope, just her speed without kakuja. And she is faster that way. Kakuja should be pretty heavy, and as such cannot possibly gain the same speed. Maybe with enough momentum (her 'flight' and crash during the Anteiku raid arc), but within small spaces not a chance. It makes sense, it's basic physics. The thing is, Furuta lived so far only because he's the main antagonist. He should have died twice just in this fight (against Kaneki, not Eto) alone. Urie is just used to taking blows...like against Amon or Donato, this isn't the first time that a character takes damage that seems fatal to finally survive. After that you'll surely tell me "Urie is a quinx he shouldn't be able to survive that" Urie framed out so he normally has the same attributes as a ghoul and we know that there are ghouls that are quite resistant because the regenerative ability varies among individual, and even without it we have already seen Quinx take a lot of damage without dying, against Amon where Hsiao was impaled and Higemaru was half in a wall... Like I said, Roma is an idiot...just an idiot, what she did doesn't go out of her character so I don't see any problem here, it would be bullshit if Roma had a serious personality and at this very moment behaves like an idiot. If you don't agree with me then never mind I really don't want to debate further than that. I would like you to tell me what she could have done to defend herself while her kakuja wasn't enough against Furuta's kagune, just how ?A kakuja is supposed to be the most solid thing because it's supposed to be like an armor that protects the ghoul. Then, you really think that Furuta would have left Eto eat a corpse like that or on the contrary would have done anything to prevent it? He's not stupid he wouldn't take this risk so it's more likely that he didn't leave any opening and his type of kagune is perfect for that since it can attack from several directions and therefore more places that Eto had to protect. And please this time take into account the suppressants which are supposed to disrupt or even remove the activation of the kakuhou. Well, there's no indication whatsoever that he couldn't reach or even doesn't react to this so called speed that was used just once against small opponents. As a kakuja Eto uses four members who are very long so that should offset the loss of speed if there is one, and a kakuja is basically a lot of muscle so more power to run, attack, jump, ect. We can say the same thing for Kaneki, he lived so far because he's the main protagonistes. Twice? Just once, when Kaneki could have use the element of surprise to tear off his head. If you don't think you can change your mind then let's stop here because I'm sure Eto's defeat makes sense, even if it's entertaining to argue like that I feel like it's going nowhere and we're wasting our time. Urie is a ghoul, not just having attributes of one. And we saw a ghoul dying from a broken neck, from being impaled twice while in kakuja form, from being shot by Q bullets... How does that qualify as a reason enough to die from, but having your head smashed in twice doesn't? Roma was an idiot? How? She dealt enough damage to kill most ghouls and logically presumed Urie was dead. That's not being stupid. Detachable kagune, using her speed to get away, firing projectiles at him, combining all those... Kakuja is supposed to be the most solid, yet we saw a kakuja being ripped apart by a kagune, but a quinqe sword, which should be far less durable blocks a stronger version of that kagune without a scratch. How? Plot convenience, or as I like to call it, bullshit. Suppressants were designed for ordinary ghouls, not for someone like Eto. There was a theory, maybe it's even correct, that Eto, due to being a natural OEG can produce RC cells by herself, which would explain the giant kakuja from a small meal. And Eto could defend from attacks from various directions cause she was able to manipulate her kagune in that way. Furuta couldn't react to Kaneki's first attack and yet you say he would have been able to react to something likely even faster than that? Take for example a karate/kung fu/whatever master and a heavy weight boxer, or one of those guys from the competitions for the world's strongest man? It's pretty much obvious who has more muscle and who is stronger, but who do you think is faster? Should be pretty easy to answer. Twice. Here: It could and should have been an omnidirectional attack instead of a unidirectional one and jumping at him was completely illogical. Furuta was down on the ground and Kaneki could have either grabbed him or impaled him. And Furuta should have been dead there. |
May 23, 2018 5:47 PM
#53
Aezeryel said: SethBigBoss said: Aezeryel said: SethBigBoss said: Aezeryel said: SethBigBoss said: Aezeryel said: SethBigBoss said: Aezeryel said: SethBigBoss said: Aezeryel said: SethBigBoss said: Amazing fight and amazing chapter. For those who underestimate Furuta and that he should lose easily you have to consider that: -He was trained like Arima during his youth -His skills was praised by Arima -He has the advantages of a half human+ advantages of Rize's kagune -He is smart -Kaneki doesn't know his abilities (same for the readers by the way...) so he has the element of surprise -Nobody knows his Rc level -He was able to defeat Eto, a SSS ghoul,not in the best of shape but still able to create a huge kakuja and wipe the floor with V's special agents. Despite that I think now that Kaneki has released his kakuja Furuta is going to be slaughtered. Hairu was also trained in the same way, yet got slaughtered. Kaneki was trained by Arima himself. He has advantage of being a half-human. On the kagune side, Kaneki has the advantage. If you remember, Kaneki is also smart, being able to learn how to fight simply by reading about it. The element of surprise pretty much disappeared once he showed his kagune. His RC level can't really be much higher than that of Kaneki in the prequel, considering they have the same kagune. Kaneki should have a much, much higher RC level than him. He did defeat Eto, but I've said a number of times already that was mere plot convenience. No matter how you look at it, Eto should have obliterated him. The only thing in which Furuta has truly an advantage over Kaneki is trolling. No one can match him in that. Are you going to say that Hairu's skills weren't impressive ? it's seems like they all followed the same training but there are some who stand out, like Arima and quite obviously Furuta. You ignore the fact that Arima praised his skills while still a child despite the fact that this single element shows that Furuta is impressive? ok whatever. He has the advantage of being a half human, the advantage of being a washuu which implies having from birth powerful Rc cells, you add to that Rize's kagune (a washuu, powerfull Rc cells) and it's obvious that Furuta is damn strong so even though on the kagune side Kaneki has the advantage he must still be wary of Furuta. Yeah Kaneki is smart but smarter than Furuta? I don't think so, Kaneki himself said it in this chapter. "His RC level can't really be much higher than that of Kaneki in the prequel, considering they have the same kagune" they have the same kagune yeah but like I said above Furuta is a washuu while Kaneki was a simple human at the start, so Furuta from his birth has powerfull Rc cells, an "natural born kakuja" so obviously his Rc level is higher than Kaneki's in the prequel. He defeat Eto thanks to the element of surprise and that he's strong that's all. I'm not saying that Furuta is stronger than Kaneki, I think the opposite but Furuta is strong enough to not lose easily. Considering Hairu got killed by a S? rated ghoul, and Arima outmatched three SS~ rated ghouls, not so impressive. Arima was still far above Furuta, and yet Kaneki managed to defeat him. He said "His form is quite good".... That doesn't suddenly make Furuta a fighting genius. As I've said in another comment, we had no indication that half humans had a higher RC level, meaning it would have no effect on implanted kagune. I never said he was smarter than Furuta, just that he was smart. Again, being half human doesn't mean higher RC level.In fact, it should be impossible for them to have higher RC level than ordinary humans. Why? Because we saw what happened to ordinary humans who had higher RC level than they should have (Shirazu's sister). Half humans/demi-humans don't have a kakohou to store that excess of RC cells, which would mean that the same thing should happen to them as well. We even have Saiko, a Quinx being affected by that. Element of surprise, huh. I've already proven that Eto should have won in another thread, but I'll entertain you as well. First off, the moment Furuta released his kagune, the element of surprise was completely gone, cause Eto knew exactly what type of kagune it was and what it was capable of. Second argument - RC suppressants. Despite being under the suppressants, she managed to whip out an enormous kakuja just from a bit of a food (her editor). Now, she had dozens of dead V agents lying around which she could have eaten. Argument no. 3 - intelligence. Eto was far smarter than Furuta, proven by being a best-selling author, finding Kanou's hideout, figuring out Furuta was a Clown and working with Kanou, being far more proficient in kagune manipulation, i.e. she managed to create a semi-detachable kagune. Final argument - Eto's speed. As we saw in the prequel, Eto was fast enough that not even other ghouls could react to her speed (Banjou and Yasuhisa sisters). Even taking into consideration that Furuta was possibly faster than them, Eto should still have been far faster than him, and along with the other arguments that I provided that puts her in a more than likely position to win. And you do realize Kaneki could have simply killed Furuta at the beginning of the fight instead of merely taking his mask off, which would count as the element of surprise you are so insistent on? What makes you say that Arima was far above Furuta ? Because until now we didn't know what Furuta was capable of, plus the fact that Kaneki (without his kakuja) struggle against him means he's not THAT far from Arima. The fact that he praised his skills shows that he was strong enough to stand out in the eyes of a genius like Arima, and in general the more you train the more you become strong so it's quite possible that with the time Furuta has become a fighting genius. But Furuta isn't just a ordinary half human, he's a washuu so he has the genetic mutation unlike a ordinary half human from a simple human and a ghoul, and it's not because he's not a pure blood that the genetics would have completely disappeared so he has from the birth powerfull Rc cells, maybe not as a pure blood but still. Half humans are registered as ghouls when passing through the Rc Scan Gates so that's means despite the fact to not have a kakuhou the Rc scan gates would still react to them because of their Rc cells ( because the majority of half humans are illegitimate children from the Washuu so they have higher rc cells level than humans) , that's why the gates have been modified. Because why the gates would react to them if their rc levels is like humans's rc level ?That doesn't make sense. First off, the moment Furuta released his kagune Eto's kakuja was immediately destroyed, so do you think that under the effect of the rc suppressant and almost without food she would have been able to make another enormous kakuja? Probably not, it was the biggest kakuja we've ever seen with Eto it's impossible that she was able to make another one just with a paté that Furuta gave her before. Secondly now that her kakuja was destroyed do you really think that she was able to defend herserf against Furuta ? Probably not, Furuta didn't seem to have really suffered against her. Like Roma once she loses her kakuja she is much more vulnerable. Thirdly, intelligence, both are smart, Furuta was able to infiltrate clowns, was able to manipulate the CCG to move from rank 1 investigator to the head of the ccg and so plan the massacre of ghouls, to carry out his plan concerning the dragon's stuff and that from the start of TG. Eto was omnibulated by the fact to kill Furuta that's maybe why she didn't think about eating corpses on the ground or maybe Furuta didn't allow her to do it or whatever, because like you said Eto is smart and I don't think she would be foolish enough to eat while she has an enemy of whom she knows nothing in front of her. So yeah Furuta won because of the element of surprise because as soon as he had succeeded to destroy Eto's kakuja the fight was already done. Even if you say that she should have been able to defend herself without kakuja like against Karen it would not have been enough against Rize's kagune. If Furuta and Eto fight again Eto would probably win but in the circumstances of her fight against Furuta her defeat makes sense Yeah I agree Kaneki could have won but he didn't do it that's why now he's forced to take out his kakuja because Furuta is that strong. And so was Hairu, yet she showed nothing remarkable despite her "powerful" bloodline. You seem to have formed a misconception. RC cells are not powerful or weak. What matters is the cell count. Back to my original point, it's completely irrelevant what was Furuta's RC level before or after the surgery. After the current events it cannot come even close to Kaneki's. Of course she wouldn't be able to create another one. I never said she should do that. That would be incredibly stupid thing to do, especially for someone as intelligent as Eto. She would definitely be able to defend herself long enough to eat some of the dead V agents and restore her RC cells. Furuta "creating" the dragon Kaneki is pure bullshit, cause that literally required him to be able to see in the future. Nope, completely wrong. Eto never let rage take control of her, cause she's not stupid enough to let herself be consumed by rage simply because of her respect towards her editor. "Of whom she knows nothing about"... dear God. I already said she knew he was a Clown, she probably knew he was a half-human as well, and she knew exactly what kind of kagune did he have. How does that amount to knowing nothing about him? With the level of kagune manipulation Eto could have easily produced more tentacles than Furuta could, so yeah, she could have defended against his/Rize's kagune. And how convenient that you ignored my argument about Eto's superior speed. Everyone seems to do that for some reason.... Her skills was above most of the investigator, she isn't dead because she was weak but because of the enemies's teamwork, her attitude etc.. this isn't just about strenght, Urie killed Roma despite the fact that she was a SSS ghoul but that doesn't mean that Roma was weaker or whatever she lost because of her attitude. I think Amon has a higher Rc level than Takizawa despite that he lost against Takizawa so everything is possible with Kaneki and Furuta. You know that making a kakuja is exhausting for a ghoul right? There is no way that she was able to fight correctly once Furuta destroyed her kakuja, she just ate a paté and was under the suppressants... Furuta's kagune was able to pass through her kakuja and you think that she could defend herself against that again but this time without her kakuja?No...come on. Yeah right she just chased Furuta through the building, killed V's investigators without paying attention to them without any resentment ? No, she was clearly affected by the fate of her editor and Furuta himself notice it by saying if she wanted him to apologize, to calm down etc... She knew he was a clown and that he has a kagune...that's amazing, and ? Does that tell her what he's capable with Rize's kagune, his imagination, his skills, his tactics, etc....No, so she didn't know anything about him or if you prefer she knew nothing about his fighting skills. "And how convenient that you ignored my argument about Eto's superior speed" superior speed while being exhausted ? It seemed logical to me that her speed wasn't at the best with the suppressants and just a paté so I didn't think it was necessary to talk about it since I already said that she wasn't at her best. Speaking about speed, Kaneki was able to keep with her SUPERIOR SPEED while he didn't have his kakuja, he was just using his basic kagune, amazing no ? So why not Furuta? Because you don't like him ? that's not a good reason. Urie winning against Roma is another bullshit fight. I get him winning against Shikorae (a character so epically wasted Hiro Mashima wanted him for FT) who wasn't really even a proper fighter. But against Roma is just plain bullshit. He barely won against Donato's clone ffs. Probably, but Amon was a floppy, and if I remember correctly, floppies couldn't utilize their kagune properly. Nope, haven't heard of that. Could you provide where you saw that piece of info? Yeah, because that very same kagune can be blocked by a mere sword quinqe, but not by kagune of one of the strongest ghouls in the series..... Furuta is a troll and simply wanted to buy time for a perfect moment to launch his surprise attack. "so she didn't know anything about him or if you prefer she knew nothing about his fighting skills." Two different things. And again wrong. She knew exactly what that kagune was capable of cause she fought it. It's not like Furuta could suddenly create 20 tentacles or detach it or whatever. She knew nothing of his personal fighting style, but that goes both ways. Exhausted? How was she exhausted 2 minutes into the fight? Yoshimura in his old age managed to last more than 10 minutes, possibly even half an hour and you say that Eto was exhausted after such a short time? Based on what? Where does it say that RC suppressants affect ghouls physical abilities? Provide me some proof please. Kaneki was able to keep up with her speed? When? Cause, from what I remember, she only showed that speed against Banjou and the Yasuhisa sisters. Oh look, another wrong assumption. Never once did I say I don't like Furuta. At first I actually liked him, but his repetitive jokes have become somewhat dull and his ability to predict the future to an extent was annoying, but beside that I don't have anything against him. Tatara is the one I don't like. The guy was a one-dimensional character. Urie didn't beat Roma because he was stronger than her but because she was an idiot, you can be as strong as you want if you don't take a fight seriously you might lose, that's what happened. I don't see any bullshit in this fight, Roma has always been an idiot that wasn't something new, but keep thinking that it's bullshit if you want I don't want to start another debate... Amon used a kakuja and beat Kurona just before, during this match he had no problem. We can put his defeat on the fact that he had lost control and that he couldn't fight logically but Takizawa with a lower rc level was still able to beat a stronger kakuja. Chapter 137 page 1 on mangastream "you're probably pretty hungry huh ? In your kakuja form and all". Even without that that seems logical that making a kakuja is exhausting with almost no food and under the suppressants, it takes a lot of rc cell just to make one kakuja so making an enormous like Eto did must logically be tiring for her, a ghoul's stamina isn't unlimited and the conditions under which Eto was should only make it worse. If Furuta's kagune pass through a kakuja that is basically an armor and one of the strongest kakuja then his kagune will pass through her basic kagune which is under the suppresants which affected the activity of the kakuhou...you make the conversation last for nothing here. Furuta knew how Eto fights and what she was capable of, she had already fought the ccg on several occasions and reports on these fights should normally be archived while Eto didn't know how many tentacles he can do and how he would use them, and I don't know it either and the same goes for you. Kaneki beat Eto with 6 tentacles and I don't think it's an untouchable number for Furuta, we have already seen how monstrous his kagune can be. And we don't know if he can detach it or not... Jason injected rc suppressants through Kaneki's eyes to make his body weaker to be able to torture him if I'm not wrong. and even if she was still in possession of all her physical abilities Furuta has the abilites of a half human, he's not Banjo (not a fighter) or Yasuhisa sisters( not yet that strong) so using them as a reference for Eto's speed isn't the best. Ah I thought you were talking about Eto's speed in general, with a kakuja or not. I was referring to the fight between Kaneki and Eto when he wrecked her with rize's kagune, without using a kakuja. Ah and don't tell me she is faster without her kakuja, that doesn't make sense...maybe she would be more stealthy but not faster. Impaled through the throat an abdomen several times, head slammed into a wall by a giant kakuja arm, punched by that same kakuja arm and slammed into the floor, and took another barrage of attacks by Roma and Skiroae simultaneously. Yup, definitely no bullshit there. Shall I also mention how Roma simply swallowed him instead of using those giant teeth of her kakuja to rip him to shreds? Hungry is not the same as exhausted, but okay, let's say Eto got a little tired after making that kakuja. That still doesn't mean she couldn't create something to defend herself long enough to get some "refreshments". And that is my point. I'm not talking about continuously fighting Furuta, just defending herself long enough to back up and eat something, which should be easily doable. Yes, but Eto is a natural OEG, which are stated to be stronger than ordinary ghouls, so you can't really compare Kaneki's strength to Eto's. Again, I allowed for Furuta to be actually faster than the Yasuhisa sisters, there's still no indication whatsover that he could reach or even react to that level of speed. Nope, just her speed without kakuja. And she is faster that way. Kakuja should be pretty heavy, and as such cannot possibly gain the same speed. Maybe with enough momentum (her 'flight' and crash during the Anteiku raid arc), but within small spaces not a chance. It makes sense, it's basic physics. The thing is, Furuta lived so far only because he's the main antagonist. He should have died twice just in this fight (against Kaneki, not Eto) alone. Urie is just used to taking blows...like against Amon or Donato, this isn't the first time that a character takes damage that seems fatal to finally survive. After that you'll surely tell me "Urie is a quinx he shouldn't be able to survive that" Urie framed out so he normally has the same attributes as a ghoul and we know that there are ghouls that are quite resistant because the regenerative ability varies among individual, and even without it we have already seen Quinx take a lot of damage without dying, against Amon where Hsiao was impaled and Higemaru was half in a wall... Like I said, Roma is an idiot...just an idiot, what she did doesn't go out of her character so I don't see any problem here, it would be bullshit if Roma had a serious personality and at this very moment behaves like an idiot. If you don't agree with me then never mind I really don't want to debate further than that. I would like you to tell me what she could have done to defend herself while her kakuja wasn't enough against Furuta's kagune, just how ?A kakuja is supposed to be the most solid thing because it's supposed to be like an armor that protects the ghoul. Then, you really think that Furuta would have left Eto eat a corpse like that or on the contrary would have done anything to prevent it? He's not stupid he wouldn't take this risk so it's more likely that he didn't leave any opening and his type of kagune is perfect for that since it can attack from several directions and therefore more places that Eto had to protect. And please this time take into account the suppressants which are supposed to disrupt or even remove the activation of the kakuhou. Well, there's no indication whatsoever that he couldn't reach or even doesn't react to this so called speed that was used just once against small opponents. As a kakuja Eto uses four members who are very long so that should offset the loss of speed if there is one, and a kakuja is basically a lot of muscle so more power to run, attack, jump, ect. We can say the same thing for Kaneki, he lived so far because he's the main protagonistes. Twice? Just once, when Kaneki could have use the element of surprise to tear off his head. If you don't think you can change your mind then let's stop here because I'm sure Eto's defeat makes sense, even if it's entertaining to argue like that I feel like it's going nowhere and we're wasting our time. Urie is a ghoul, not just having attributes of one. And we saw a ghoul dying from a broken neck, from being impaled twice while in kakuja form, from being shot by Q bullets... How does that qualify as a reason enough to die from, but having your head smashed in twice doesn't? Roma was an idiot? How? She dealt enough damage to kill most ghouls and logically presumed Urie was dead. That's not being stupid. Detachable kagune, using her speed to get away, firing projectiles at him, combining all those... Kakuja is supposed to be the most solid, yet we saw a kakuja being ripped apart by a kagune, but a quinqe sword, which should be far less durable blocks a stronger version of that kagune without a scratch. How? Plot convenience, or as I like to call it, bullshit. Suppressants were designed for ordinary ghouls, not for someone like Eto. There was a theory, maybe it's even correct, that Eto, due to being a natural OEG can produce RC cells by herself, which would explain the giant kakuja from a small meal. And Eto could defend from attacks from various directions cause she was able to manipulate her kagune in that way. Furuta couldn't react to Kaneki's first attack and yet you say he would have been able to react to something likely even faster than that? Take for example a karate/kung fu/whatever master and a heavy weight boxer, or one of those guys from the competitions for the world's strongest man? It's pretty much obvious who has more muscle and who is stronger, but who do you think is faster? Should be pretty easy to answer. Twice. Here: It could and should have been an omnidirectional attack instead of a unidirectional one and jumping at him was completely illogical. Furuta was down on the ground and Kaneki could have either grabbed him or impaled him. And Furuta should have been dead there. We saw ghoul being impaled several times not dying(Nishiki by Kaneki, Nishiki by Haise), the brain being impaled twice not dying (Kaneki by Arima), being electrocuted not dying (Mutsuki by Yomo), being electrocuted/impaled/and make a big fall not dying (Uta by Yomo), being cut in half and then fall not dying (Eto), having a broken neck not dying(Kurona)(Aura, not a ghoul), being dismembered again again and again not dying (Kaneki),being smashed by an enormous kagune(Amon by Saiko), being impaled by Urie not dying (Saiko,not a ghoul) and I'm sure I can find many other examples but I think it must be enough to show you that not all ghouls have the same resistance, there is no prerequisite to die, some die and some keep living that's all. How Roma was an idiot? by not making sure that the person she swallowed was dead because even if as you say she did enough damage to kill most ghouls the possibility that some survive exists and a 54 years old SSS ghoul should know that so yeah she was an idiot, she just had to check if he was breathing or just shred him in her mouth...it's not like it would have taken a lot of effort to do that. Detachable kagune? Furuta's kagune would pass through~useless, firing projectiles at him?it's the type of kagune that exhausts the stamina the most and as you say Eto is smart so I don't think that she will waste her stamina (which at this very moment was a matter of life and death) and with the fact that we don't know how many tentacles Furuta could have done at that time it's very likely that the projectiles were useless. We mustn't forget that there were plenty of swords with all V's agents and just with his sword skills he put Kaneki in trouble while Kaneki is stronger than Eto and if Furuta is able to cut Kaneki's kagune with his sword then it's likely that he can do the same with Eto's kagune. A kakuja is solid, we saw her kakuja being ripped apart by Rize's kagune, a pure blood washuu so her kagune is stronger than an ordinary ghoul, the same thing happened during Kaneki vs Eto... "which should be far less durable blocks a stronger version of that kagune without a scratch" should be ? So you're not sure ? So why do you claim it's bullshit when you're not even sure about what you're saying? Without a scratch? Were you there to check the condition of the blade? Do you know the resistance of these weapons that V seems to have confidence in? Do you know the amount of strength that Kaneki put in his attacks ? The exact angle of Kaneki's attacks ? and whether or not Furuta could deflect or parry this or that attack by minimizing the impacts with these techniques learned by V and his half human skills ? You don't know right ? So no it's not bullshit neither plot convenience it's just a fight with a lot of details to take into account and surely other details we still don't know about. Suppressants were designed for ordinary ghouls ? What ? When I look at the wikipedia page I see "drugs used to suppress the activity of the kakuhou. They were specially made by the CCG's Medical Department, designed for the sole purpose of inhibiting the activity of a ghoul's Rc cells." Eto has a kakuhou and so has rc cells right ? So why wouldn't she be infected by this ? This would be bullshit, she's stronger than an ordinary ghoul but that doesn't change the fact that she has a kakuhou and rc cells, so yeah suppressants are logically taken into account in this fight. A theory is just a theory until the story proves otherwise, is it the case ? No, so I don't care, it has nothing to do there. Furuta couldn't react to Kaneki first attack because he wasn't prepared, not because he didn't have the capabilities for that. The kakuja doesn't look like an human and uses four members to move so instead of comparing a human with another human compare Usain bowl with a horse. Which is heavier, stronger and faster? Should be pretty easy to answer. You know the fight is unfolding quickly so on the moment Kaneki may very well not make the best decision especially in front of a guy who almost decapitated him just before. And I don't think Furuta could have died with this attack or the first attack because I had forgotten (you too) to take into account Furuta's regeneration, Kaneki had torn off the upper part of his body when he turned into dragon so Furuta has a insane regeneration,whether you like it or not. Here a moment where Furuta could have killed Kaneki too. He just had to aim for the head and the fight would be over. Kaneki should have been dead here. I stop arguing now, it became tiring so whatever. |
SoukaTheRealMay 23, 2018 5:51 PM
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May 24, 2018 4:18 AM
#54
SethBigBoss said: Aezeryel said: SethBigBoss said: Aezeryel said: SethBigBoss said: Aezeryel said: SethBigBoss said: Aezeryel said: SethBigBoss said: Aezeryel said: SethBigBoss said: Aezeryel said: SethBigBoss said: Amazing fight and amazing chapter. For those who underestimate Furuta and that he should lose easily you have to consider that: -He was trained like Arima during his youth -His skills was praised by Arima -He has the advantages of a half human+ advantages of Rize's kagune -He is smart -Kaneki doesn't know his abilities (same for the readers by the way...) so he has the element of surprise -Nobody knows his Rc level -He was able to defeat Eto, a SSS ghoul,not in the best of shape but still able to create a huge kakuja and wipe the floor with V's special agents. Despite that I think now that Kaneki has released his kakuja Furuta is going to be slaughtered. Hairu was also trained in the same way, yet got slaughtered. Kaneki was trained by Arima himself. He has advantage of being a half-human. On the kagune side, Kaneki has the advantage. If you remember, Kaneki is also smart, being able to learn how to fight simply by reading about it. The element of surprise pretty much disappeared once he showed his kagune. His RC level can't really be much higher than that of Kaneki in the prequel, considering they have the same kagune. Kaneki should have a much, much higher RC level than him. He did defeat Eto, but I've said a number of times already that was mere plot convenience. No matter how you look at it, Eto should have obliterated him. The only thing in which Furuta has truly an advantage over Kaneki is trolling. No one can match him in that. Are you going to say that Hairu's skills weren't impressive ? it's seems like they all followed the same training but there are some who stand out, like Arima and quite obviously Furuta. You ignore the fact that Arima praised his skills while still a child despite the fact that this single element shows that Furuta is impressive? ok whatever. He has the advantage of being a half human, the advantage of being a washuu which implies having from birth powerful Rc cells, you add to that Rize's kagune (a washuu, powerfull Rc cells) and it's obvious that Furuta is damn strong so even though on the kagune side Kaneki has the advantage he must still be wary of Furuta. Yeah Kaneki is smart but smarter than Furuta? I don't think so, Kaneki himself said it in this chapter. "His RC level can't really be much higher than that of Kaneki in the prequel, considering they have the same kagune" they have the same kagune yeah but like I said above Furuta is a washuu while Kaneki was a simple human at the start, so Furuta from his birth has powerfull Rc cells, an "natural born kakuja" so obviously his Rc level is higher than Kaneki's in the prequel. He defeat Eto thanks to the element of surprise and that he's strong that's all. I'm not saying that Furuta is stronger than Kaneki, I think the opposite but Furuta is strong enough to not lose easily. Considering Hairu got killed by a S? rated ghoul, and Arima outmatched three SS~ rated ghouls, not so impressive. Arima was still far above Furuta, and yet Kaneki managed to defeat him. He said "His form is quite good".... That doesn't suddenly make Furuta a fighting genius. As I've said in another comment, we had no indication that half humans had a higher RC level, meaning it would have no effect on implanted kagune. I never said he was smarter than Furuta, just that he was smart. Again, being half human doesn't mean higher RC level.In fact, it should be impossible for them to have higher RC level than ordinary humans. Why? Because we saw what happened to ordinary humans who had higher RC level than they should have (Shirazu's sister). Half humans/demi-humans don't have a kakohou to store that excess of RC cells, which would mean that the same thing should happen to them as well. We even have Saiko, a Quinx being affected by that. Element of surprise, huh. I've already proven that Eto should have won in another thread, but I'll entertain you as well. First off, the moment Furuta released his kagune, the element of surprise was completely gone, cause Eto knew exactly what type of kagune it was and what it was capable of. Second argument - RC suppressants. Despite being under the suppressants, she managed to whip out an enormous kakuja just from a bit of a food (her editor). Now, she had dozens of dead V agents lying around which she could have eaten. Argument no. 3 - intelligence. Eto was far smarter than Furuta, proven by being a best-selling author, finding Kanou's hideout, figuring out Furuta was a Clown and working with Kanou, being far more proficient in kagune manipulation, i.e. she managed to create a semi-detachable kagune. Final argument - Eto's speed. As we saw in the prequel, Eto was fast enough that not even other ghouls could react to her speed (Banjou and Yasuhisa sisters). Even taking into consideration that Furuta was possibly faster than them, Eto should still have been far faster than him, and along with the other arguments that I provided that puts her in a more than likely position to win. And you do realize Kaneki could have simply killed Furuta at the beginning of the fight instead of merely taking his mask off, which would count as the element of surprise you are so insistent on? What makes you say that Arima was far above Furuta ? Because until now we didn't know what Furuta was capable of, plus the fact that Kaneki (without his kakuja) struggle against him means he's not THAT far from Arima. The fact that he praised his skills shows that he was strong enough to stand out in the eyes of a genius like Arima, and in general the more you train the more you become strong so it's quite possible that with the time Furuta has become a fighting genius. But Furuta isn't just a ordinary half human, he's a washuu so he has the genetic mutation unlike a ordinary half human from a simple human and a ghoul, and it's not because he's not a pure blood that the genetics would have completely disappeared so he has from the birth powerfull Rc cells, maybe not as a pure blood but still. Half humans are registered as ghouls when passing through the Rc Scan Gates so that's means despite the fact to not have a kakuhou the Rc scan gates would still react to them because of their Rc cells ( because the majority of half humans are illegitimate children from the Washuu so they have higher rc cells level than humans) , that's why the gates have been modified. Because why the gates would react to them if their rc levels is like humans's rc level ?That doesn't make sense. First off, the moment Furuta released his kagune Eto's kakuja was immediately destroyed, so do you think that under the effect of the rc suppressant and almost without food she would have been able to make another enormous kakuja? Probably not, it was the biggest kakuja we've ever seen with Eto it's impossible that she was able to make another one just with a paté that Furuta gave her before. Secondly now that her kakuja was destroyed do you really think that she was able to defend herserf against Furuta ? Probably not, Furuta didn't seem to have really suffered against her. Like Roma once she loses her kakuja she is much more vulnerable. Thirdly, intelligence, both are smart, Furuta was able to infiltrate clowns, was able to manipulate the CCG to move from rank 1 investigator to the head of the ccg and so plan the massacre of ghouls, to carry out his plan concerning the dragon's stuff and that from the start of TG. Eto was omnibulated by the fact to kill Furuta that's maybe why she didn't think about eating corpses on the ground or maybe Furuta didn't allow her to do it or whatever, because like you said Eto is smart and I don't think she would be foolish enough to eat while she has an enemy of whom she knows nothing in front of her. So yeah Furuta won because of the element of surprise because as soon as he had succeeded to destroy Eto's kakuja the fight was already done. Even if you say that she should have been able to defend herself without kakuja like against Karen it would not have been enough against Rize's kagune. If Furuta and Eto fight again Eto would probably win but in the circumstances of her fight against Furuta her defeat makes sense Yeah I agree Kaneki could have won but he didn't do it that's why now he's forced to take out his kakuja because Furuta is that strong. And so was Hairu, yet she showed nothing remarkable despite her "powerful" bloodline. You seem to have formed a misconception. RC cells are not powerful or weak. What matters is the cell count. Back to my original point, it's completely irrelevant what was Furuta's RC level before or after the surgery. After the current events it cannot come even close to Kaneki's. Of course she wouldn't be able to create another one. I never said she should do that. That would be incredibly stupid thing to do, especially for someone as intelligent as Eto. She would definitely be able to defend herself long enough to eat some of the dead V agents and restore her RC cells. Furuta "creating" the dragon Kaneki is pure bullshit, cause that literally required him to be able to see in the future. Nope, completely wrong. Eto never let rage take control of her, cause she's not stupid enough to let herself be consumed by rage simply because of her respect towards her editor. "Of whom she knows nothing about"... dear God. I already said she knew he was a Clown, she probably knew he was a half-human as well, and she knew exactly what kind of kagune did he have. How does that amount to knowing nothing about him? With the level of kagune manipulation Eto could have easily produced more tentacles than Furuta could, so yeah, she could have defended against his/Rize's kagune. And how convenient that you ignored my argument about Eto's superior speed. Everyone seems to do that for some reason.... Her skills was above most of the investigator, she isn't dead because she was weak but because of the enemies's teamwork, her attitude etc.. this isn't just about strenght, Urie killed Roma despite the fact that she was a SSS ghoul but that doesn't mean that Roma was weaker or whatever she lost because of her attitude. I think Amon has a higher Rc level than Takizawa despite that he lost against Takizawa so everything is possible with Kaneki and Furuta. You know that making a kakuja is exhausting for a ghoul right? There is no way that she was able to fight correctly once Furuta destroyed her kakuja, she just ate a paté and was under the suppressants... Furuta's kagune was able to pass through her kakuja and you think that she could defend herself against that again but this time without her kakuja?No...come on. Yeah right she just chased Furuta through the building, killed V's investigators without paying attention to them without any resentment ? No, she was clearly affected by the fate of her editor and Furuta himself notice it by saying if she wanted him to apologize, to calm down etc... She knew he was a clown and that he has a kagune...that's amazing, and ? Does that tell her what he's capable with Rize's kagune, his imagination, his skills, his tactics, etc....No, so she didn't know anything about him or if you prefer she knew nothing about his fighting skills. "And how convenient that you ignored my argument about Eto's superior speed" superior speed while being exhausted ? It seemed logical to me that her speed wasn't at the best with the suppressants and just a paté so I didn't think it was necessary to talk about it since I already said that she wasn't at her best. Speaking about speed, Kaneki was able to keep with her SUPERIOR SPEED while he didn't have his kakuja, he was just using his basic kagune, amazing no ? So why not Furuta? Because you don't like him ? that's not a good reason. Urie winning against Roma is another bullshit fight. I get him winning against Shikorae (a character so epically wasted Hiro Mashima wanted him for FT) who wasn't really even a proper fighter. But against Roma is just plain bullshit. He barely won against Donato's clone ffs. Probably, but Amon was a floppy, and if I remember correctly, floppies couldn't utilize their kagune properly. Nope, haven't heard of that. Could you provide where you saw that piece of info? Yeah, because that very same kagune can be blocked by a mere sword quinqe, but not by kagune of one of the strongest ghouls in the series..... Furuta is a troll and simply wanted to buy time for a perfect moment to launch his surprise attack. "so she didn't know anything about him or if you prefer she knew nothing about his fighting skills." Two different things. And again wrong. She knew exactly what that kagune was capable of cause she fought it. It's not like Furuta could suddenly create 20 tentacles or detach it or whatever. She knew nothing of his personal fighting style, but that goes both ways. Exhausted? How was she exhausted 2 minutes into the fight? Yoshimura in his old age managed to last more than 10 minutes, possibly even half an hour and you say that Eto was exhausted after such a short time? Based on what? Where does it say that RC suppressants affect ghouls physical abilities? Provide me some proof please. Kaneki was able to keep up with her speed? When? Cause, from what I remember, she only showed that speed against Banjou and the Yasuhisa sisters. Oh look, another wrong assumption. Never once did I say I don't like Furuta. At first I actually liked him, but his repetitive jokes have become somewhat dull and his ability to predict the future to an extent was annoying, but beside that I don't have anything against him. Tatara is the one I don't like. The guy was a one-dimensional character. Urie didn't beat Roma because he was stronger than her but because she was an idiot, you can be as strong as you want if you don't take a fight seriously you might lose, that's what happened. I don't see any bullshit in this fight, Roma has always been an idiot that wasn't something new, but keep thinking that it's bullshit if you want I don't want to start another debate... Amon used a kakuja and beat Kurona just before, during this match he had no problem. We can put his defeat on the fact that he had lost control and that he couldn't fight logically but Takizawa with a lower rc level was still able to beat a stronger kakuja. Chapter 137 page 1 on mangastream "you're probably pretty hungry huh ? In your kakuja form and all". Even without that that seems logical that making a kakuja is exhausting with almost no food and under the suppressants, it takes a lot of rc cell just to make one kakuja so making an enormous like Eto did must logically be tiring for her, a ghoul's stamina isn't unlimited and the conditions under which Eto was should only make it worse. If Furuta's kagune pass through a kakuja that is basically an armor and one of the strongest kakuja then his kagune will pass through her basic kagune which is under the suppresants which affected the activity of the kakuhou...you make the conversation last for nothing here. Furuta knew how Eto fights and what she was capable of, she had already fought the ccg on several occasions and reports on these fights should normally be archived while Eto didn't know how many tentacles he can do and how he would use them, and I don't know it either and the same goes for you. Kaneki beat Eto with 6 tentacles and I don't think it's an untouchable number for Furuta, we have already seen how monstrous his kagune can be. And we don't know if he can detach it or not... Jason injected rc suppressants through Kaneki's eyes to make his body weaker to be able to torture him if I'm not wrong. and even if she was still in possession of all her physical abilities Furuta has the abilites of a half human, he's not Banjo (not a fighter) or Yasuhisa sisters( not yet that strong) so using them as a reference for Eto's speed isn't the best. Ah I thought you were talking about Eto's speed in general, with a kakuja or not. I was referring to the fight between Kaneki and Eto when he wrecked her with rize's kagune, without using a kakuja. Ah and don't tell me she is faster without her kakuja, that doesn't make sense...maybe she would be more stealthy but not faster. Impaled through the throat an abdomen several times, head slammed into a wall by a giant kakuja arm, punched by that same kakuja arm and slammed into the floor, and took another barrage of attacks by Roma and Skiroae simultaneously. Yup, definitely no bullshit there. Shall I also mention how Roma simply swallowed him instead of using those giant teeth of her kakuja to rip him to shreds? Hungry is not the same as exhausted, but okay, let's say Eto got a little tired after making that kakuja. That still doesn't mean she couldn't create something to defend herself long enough to get some "refreshments". And that is my point. I'm not talking about continuously fighting Furuta, just defending herself long enough to back up and eat something, which should be easily doable. Yes, but Eto is a natural OEG, which are stated to be stronger than ordinary ghouls, so you can't really compare Kaneki's strength to Eto's. Again, I allowed for Furuta to be actually faster than the Yasuhisa sisters, there's still no indication whatsover that he could reach or even react to that level of speed. Nope, just her speed without kakuja. And she is faster that way. Kakuja should be pretty heavy, and as such cannot possibly gain the same speed. Maybe with enough momentum (her 'flight' and crash during the Anteiku raid arc), but within small spaces not a chance. It makes sense, it's basic physics. The thing is, Furuta lived so far only because he's the main antagonist. He should have died twice just in this fight (against Kaneki, not Eto) alone. Urie is just used to taking blows...like against Amon or Donato, this isn't the first time that a character takes damage that seems fatal to finally survive. After that you'll surely tell me "Urie is a quinx he shouldn't be able to survive that" Urie framed out so he normally has the same attributes as a ghoul and we know that there are ghouls that are quite resistant because the regenerative ability varies among individual, and even without it we have already seen Quinx take a lot of damage without dying, against Amon where Hsiao was impaled and Higemaru was half in a wall... Like I said, Roma is an idiot...just an idiot, what she did doesn't go out of her character so I don't see any problem here, it would be bullshit if Roma had a serious personality and at this very moment behaves like an idiot. If you don't agree with me then never mind I really don't want to debate further than that. I would like you to tell me what she could have done to defend herself while her kakuja wasn't enough against Furuta's kagune, just how ?A kakuja is supposed to be the most solid thing because it's supposed to be like an armor that protects the ghoul. Then, you really think that Furuta would have left Eto eat a corpse like that or on the contrary would have done anything to prevent it? He's not stupid he wouldn't take this risk so it's more likely that he didn't leave any opening and his type of kagune is perfect for that since it can attack from several directions and therefore more places that Eto had to protect. And please this time take into account the suppressants which are supposed to disrupt or even remove the activation of the kakuhou. Well, there's no indication whatsoever that he couldn't reach or even doesn't react to this so called speed that was used just once against small opponents. As a kakuja Eto uses four members who are very long so that should offset the loss of speed if there is one, and a kakuja is basically a lot of muscle so more power to run, attack, jump, ect. We can say the same thing for Kaneki, he lived so far because he's the main protagonistes. Twice? Just once, when Kaneki could have use the element of surprise to tear off his head. If you don't think you can change your mind then let's stop here because I'm sure Eto's defeat makes sense, even if it's entertaining to argue like that I feel like it's going nowhere and we're wasting our time. Urie is a ghoul, not just having attributes of one. And we saw a ghoul dying from a broken neck, from being impaled twice while in kakuja form, from being shot by Q bullets... How does that qualify as a reason enough to die from, but having your head smashed in twice doesn't? Roma was an idiot? How? She dealt enough damage to kill most ghouls and logically presumed Urie was dead. That's not being stupid. Detachable kagune, using her speed to get away, firing projectiles at him, combining all those... Kakuja is supposed to be the most solid, yet we saw a kakuja being ripped apart by a kagune, but a quinqe sword, which should be far less durable blocks a stronger version of that kagune without a scratch. How? Plot convenience, or as I like to call it, bullshit. Suppressants were designed for ordinary ghouls, not for someone like Eto. There was a theory, maybe it's even correct, that Eto, due to being a natural OEG can produce RC cells by herself, which would explain the giant kakuja from a small meal. And Eto could defend from attacks from various directions cause she was able to manipulate her kagune in that way. Furuta couldn't react to Kaneki's first attack and yet you say he would have been able to react to something likely even faster than that? Take for example a karate/kung fu/whatever master and a heavy weight boxer, or one of those guys from the competitions for the world's strongest man? It's pretty much obvious who has more muscle and who is stronger, but who do you think is faster? Should be pretty easy to answer. Twice. Here: It could and should have been an omnidirectional attack instead of a unidirectional one and jumping at him was completely illogical. Furuta was down on the ground and Kaneki could have either grabbed him or impaled him. And Furuta should have been dead there. We saw ghoul being impaled several times not dying(Nishiki by Kaneki, Nishiki by Haise), the brain being impaled twice not dying (Kaneki by Arima), being electrocuted not dying (Mutsuki by Yomo), being electrocuted/impaled/and make a big fall not dying (Uta by Yomo), being cut in half and then fall not dying (Eto), having a broken neck not dying(Kurona)(Aura, not a ghoul), being dismembered again again and again not dying (Kaneki),being smashed by an enormous kagune(Amon by Saiko), being impaled by Urie not dying (Saiko,not a ghoul) and I'm sure I can find many other examples but I think it must be enough to show you that not all ghouls have the same resistance, there is no prerequisite to die, some die and some keep living that's all. How Roma was an idiot? by not making sure that the person she swallowed was dead because even if as you say she did enough damage to kill most ghouls the possibility that some survive exists and a 54 years old SSS ghoul should know that so yeah she was an idiot, she just had to check if he was breathing or just shred him in her mouth...it's not like it would have taken a lot of effort to do that. Detachable kagune? Furuta's kagune would pass through~useless, firing projectiles at him?it's the type of kagune that exhausts the stamina the most and as you say Eto is smart so I don't think that she will waste her stamina (which at this very moment was a matter of life and death) and with the fact that we don't know how many tentacles Furuta could have done at that time it's very likely that the projectiles were useless. We mustn't forget that there were plenty of swords with all V's agents and just with his sword skills he put Kaneki in trouble while Kaneki is stronger than Eto and if Furuta is able to cut Kaneki's kagune with his sword then it's likely that he can do the same with Eto's kagune. A kakuja is solid, we saw her kakuja being ripped apart by Rize's kagune, a pure blood washuu so her kagune is stronger than an ordinary ghoul, the same thing happened during Kaneki vs Eto... "which should be far less durable blocks a stronger version of that kagune without a scratch" should be ? So you're not sure ? So why do you claim it's bullshit when you're not even sure about what you're saying? Without a scratch? Were you there to check the condition of the blade? Do you know the resistance of these weapons that V seems to have confidence in? Do you know the amount of strength that Kaneki put in his attacks ? The exact angle of Kaneki's attacks ? and whether or not Furuta could deflect or parry this or that attack by minimizing the impacts with these techniques learned by V and his half human skills ? You don't know right ? So no it's not bullshit neither plot convenience it's just a fight with a lot of details to take into account and surely other details we still don't know about. Suppressants were designed for ordinary ghouls ? What ? When I look at the wikipedia page I see "drugs used to suppress the activity of the kakuhou. They were specially made by the CCG's Medical Department, designed for the sole purpose of inhibiting the activity of a ghoul's Rc cells." Eto has a kakuhou and so has rc cells right ? So why wouldn't she be infected by this ? This would be bullshit, she's stronger than an ordinary ghoul but that doesn't change the fact that she has a kakuhou and rc cells, so yeah suppressants are logically taken into account in this fight. A theory is just a theory until the story proves otherwise, is it the case ? No, so I don't care, it has nothing to do there. Furuta couldn't react to Kaneki first attack because he wasn't prepared, not because he didn't have the capabilities for that. The kakuja doesn't look like an human and uses four members to move so instead of comparing a human with another human compare Usain bowl with a horse. Which is heavier, stronger and faster? Should be pretty easy to answer. You know the fight is unfolding quickly so on the moment Kaneki may very well not make the best decision especially in front of a guy who almost decapitated him just before. And I don't think Furuta could have died with this attack or the first attack because I had forgotten (you too) to take into account Furuta's regeneration, Kaneki had torn off the upper part of his body when he turned into dragon so Furuta has a insane regeneration,whether you like it or not. Here a moment where Furuta could have killed Kaneki too. He just had to aim for the head and the fight would be over. Kaneki should have been dead here. I stop arguing now, it became tiring so whatever. And I can find numerous examples of ghouls dying from those same causes. That's the thing - inconsistency. Having a ghoul die from a broken neck (Ganbo) and then having a Quinx survive that same injury doesn't make sense. Shachi died from being electrocuted but Mutsuki survives. Back at the beginning of the first manga, ghouls were said to be able to die from falling from great hights, same as humans, and having a broken neck would somewhat equate to that. But suddenly in :re, all that became completely irrelevant. That's why I call it bullshit. I used that same argument of her shredding/ripping him apart with her giant teeth as an example of plot convenience already, you know? SO you're saying that directly taking on an opponent you might not beat in your current state is better than wasting some stamina to get a pretty good opportunity to improve your state? Wonderful logic. Plenty of swords, none of which were close to Furuta at the start of the fight. Let me rephrase - through everything we saw in the entire series a kakuja must be more durable than a mere sword quinqe. Yet, we saw otherwise. Why? Because plot convenience. Amount of strength Kaneki put into his attacks? It's a fight to the death, you think he's gonna attack at half power? Kaneki broke an S and SSS rated quinqe, both owned by Arima. I seriously doubt something more durable than that could be mass-produced. Taken into account. As we saw, they don't affect her as much as they do ordinary ghouls. And would he have been prepared for Eto's speed while knowing nothing about it? Do you see how slim her legs are compared to the size of her body? As you say, kakuja is like an armor, so it's pretty heavy. To move something of that weight at the speed we are talking about she either needs momentum, which I've already said, or at least twice more muscle mass in her legs. Yes, because his fights against Eto and Arima weren't fast paced. And yet he managed to fight tactically. Furuta was hit by that attack. Having his upper half torn off is your speculation, cause it wasn't shown clearly what actually happened. And what insane regeneration? He didn't regenerate after getting cut by Kaneki, as we can clearly see a scar left. I see no point of you bringing up that panel. Yeah, Kaneki should have died there and a couple of times earlier in the manga. He lived so far because he's the MC, just like Furuta lived so far because he's the main antagonist, which was my original point. However you want. I know I'm right and I provided enough arguments for that. Whether you want to accept it or not is your thing. |
AezeryelMay 24, 2018 6:56 AM
May 24, 2018 12:48 PM
#55
Bowman145 said: It’s hilarious to see a lot of people trashing on Kaneki yet praising on that Gary Stu character (Furuta) who’s antics have gotten old at this point imo. Oh don't worry a load of people hate fruit boi. |
May 24, 2018 2:29 PM
#56
I just can't wait for the next chapter. I started reading :re when anime had started arriving [now i know why everyone was telling me to read the manga]. I think Kaneki won't defeat Furuta alone becouse he always was trying to protect everyone by himself and he usually fails, but one the other hand he is tired of "not being abe to do anything" so I hope he manage to defeat Furuta. |
May 25, 2018 7:48 PM
#57
Cyborg_Dragon said: To be fare Hide risking his live saving Touka or the kid would not be bad it would make him the ultimate bro. Ofc you'd say that lmao. I just want Hide to live for himself u_u Seriously stop risking your life for Kaneki or his wife or his unborn child or any of his other businesses damn it. Just what on earth did Kaneki had ever done to Hide for him to go to such length. It doesn't make sense. It's as bad as how it doesn't make sense that Touka abandoned her dream for Kaneki. Just what on earth did Kaneki had ever done to Touka to make her go to such length, waiting for Kaneki to come back? Making :re so Kaneki would have a place to go home to? Even abandoning Yoriko? She literally poisoned herself for so long just so she wouldn't hurt Yoriko's feeling about her cooking. And Hide. He's a cheerful and charming guy. It's clear that he has other friends other than Kaneki, even though Kaneki is his best friend, but Hide should have had a life, a normal life, outside of Kaneki. He had a choice to not be involved in any of this ghoul vs human crap. But he's like, threw it all away for Kaneki. Let half of his face got chomped on, successfully making his chance of wooing girls drop drastically. And I thought he likes flirting with girls. Wtf man. No matter how much of an amazing bro you are, it doesn't make sense. It's not as if he doesn't have a life outside of Kaneki. UNLIKE Kaneki whos friends and family apparently was only Hide prior to all this, literally got no one else. So it would make more sense in my eyes if the role is reversed. Which is why Amon asked that question, why would Hide went to such length. He basically became our voice. And Hide answered "Because I love him." which is very ambiguous even for japanese peeps. Very clever Ishida. Granted, we barely know anything about Hide, so I'll shut my mouth for now. Oh crap I ended up ranting so much, please ignore ;; TLDR, no, Hide doesn't have to risk his life, his face, or any part of his body, anymore for Kaneki and his band of problems for Hide to prove that he's the ultimate bro XP He's already WAY past that to the point that it doesn't make any sense anymore unless Ishida reveals Hide's side of story. |
CrimsonMidnightMay 25, 2018 8:01 PM
OTP: KidLaw | IzuKatsu | GureShin | EruRi | AoKi | See more! » My art » My translation » Doujinshi collection » Favorite Kurobas doujinshi BISHIES X RAP |
May 26, 2018 7:08 AM
#58
The reason Touka left Yoriko is because anyone associated with Anteiku would be hunted down. Nishiki also had to leave Kimi on her own because of his association with anteiku. Its also the same reason Touka could not go to college at the end of tg. Also Ken has helped Touka a bunch of times and is the first person to acknowledge her as person while knowing she is a monster. The whole tragedy at the beginning of the manga could have been stopped by so many characters. Hide could have pushed Kaneki further to not go on the date. Touka could have done something to prevent rize going into that alley with Ken or Yoshimura or Yomo could of done something about Rize when she began targeting customers. Hide is as much a Touken shipper as the others in Kens crew. Plus there is the chance he is Saikos gamer friend and she is everybodies waifu. |
May 26, 2018 3:27 PM
#59
Wow that was epic especially when he caught the sword with his mouth it reminded me of Saitama buy I wonder who did it better lmao. |
Jun 19, 2020 12:55 PM
#62
Why is Rize's still not around? Does that mean she's going to be the last villain whom Kaneki will beat? |
She got him back. If you understand the characters well enough, you'd know she did! |
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