Do you want Feminism in your Anime?
Yes, politics infesting entertainment is a good thing
18.8%
171
No, the Author's vision should be respected
81.2%
740
911 votes
| @Nyu That's... one of the most terrible excuses I have ever heard. Simply reading the discussion I linked to debunks your argument. Face it, arguing on the internet isn't your strongest suit. |
 Nico- said: Conversations with people pinging/quoting me to argue about some old post I wrote years ago will not be entertained@Comic_Sans oh no y arnt ppl dieing i need more ppl dieing rly gud plot avansement jus liek tokyo ghoul if erbudy dies amirite |
Simply put, I have my views, but, I realise that modern society aren't very receptive to them, so I go by society's views. Such as equality, but not Western Equality, which basically is "women get equality without any of the responsibility" or "women getting more rights than men and special treatment". I prefer real Equality. |
| @Nyu Which according to you means women not getting the right to vote because they must stay in the kitchen but at the same time second wave feminism was needed because now all of a sudden women didn't have enough rights. Like I said, as consistent as anal leakage. |
Nico- said: Conversations with people pinging/quoting me to argue about some old post I wrote years ago will not be entertained@Comic_Sans oh no y arnt ppl dieing i need more ppl dieing rly gud plot avansement jus liek tokyo ghoul if erbudy dies amirite |
Comic_Sans said: @Nyu Which according to you means women not getting the right to vote because they must stay in the kitchen but at the same time second wave feminism was needed because now all of a sudden women didn't have enough rights. Like I said, as consistent as anal leakage. If I'm going by Real Equality, then women should get the right to vote, to work, but should also have the responsibility of serving in the military and not just behind the lines jobs, but in the infantry. And women should also be eligible to conscription. But no special treatment like Sweden, where they won't be put into Infantry. If women are so capable, and equal to men, then they can damn well do the same jobs. |
| @Nyu Simply reading the discussion I linked to debunks your argument. My point still stands, pick one ideological viewpoint and stick to it instead of shifting between "I want equality" and "the feminists fooled the womynz into thinking they needed the right to vote". |
Nico- said: Conversations with people pinging/quoting me to argue about some old post I wrote years ago will not be entertained@Comic_Sans oh no y arnt ppl dieing i need more ppl dieing rly gud plot avansement jus liek tokyo ghoul if erbudy dies amirite |
Comic_Sans said: @Nyu Simply reading the discussion I linked to debunks your argument. My point still stands, pick one ideological viewpoint and stick to it instead of shifting between "I want equality" and "the feminists fooled the womynz into thinking they needed the right to vote".If I'm talking about modern society, I will stick with the Equality argument, If I'm talking about history, I will stick to my traditionalist viewpoint. |
| @Nyu Still about as consistent as anal leakage |
Nico- said: Conversations with people pinging/quoting me to argue about some old post I wrote years ago will not be entertained@Comic_Sans oh no y arnt ppl dieing i need more ppl dieing rly gud plot avansement jus liek tokyo ghoul if erbudy dies amirite |
Well, I've explained my position, if you can't comprehend that, that is your issue. |
| @Nyu And I've explained why your position is nonsense, if you can't comprehend that, that is your issue. |
Nico- said: Conversations with people pinging/quoting me to argue about some old post I wrote years ago will not be entertained@Comic_Sans oh no y arnt ppl dieing i need more ppl dieing rly gud plot avansement jus liek tokyo ghoul if erbudy dies amirite |
15poundfish said: Also, your categories of what is feminism in anime is meaningless because they barely have anything to do with feminism. A strong female lead is not feminist, a socially conservative women can be a strong female lead and not be a lick of feminist. When you call something feminist, it should be all about being feminist which means like diving into feminist philosophy and being in support of it. A strong male lead in an anime is not a MRA, so why the double standards for strong female leads? Anime is not feminist in the same way a Certain Magical Index is not Christian. Maybe feminist anime will come out in the future, but I doubt it would sell anymore than moe blob or ecchi anime. You're still on about this? Even though your arguments and delusions have already been destroyed you keep repeating them like a broken record buried in the sand. To say that you are in denial is a huge understatement. |
| Feminism the anime=Prison School!! |
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15poundfish said: You have never put forth a valid counter argument though. you made false analogies, appeal to popularity, an ad hoc fallacy and declarative statements. I can't respond to your non arguments. You can't respond because you're the one with no counter arguments, and you have none because you are simply wrong, which I've shown quite well. I've honestly never seen anyone be so clearly wrong about a subject before and so stubbornly in denial about it. |
kawaii96desu said: There is no feminism in prison school, it is more like an imaginary world where women are ruling over the genetically inferior sex a.k.a. Utopia. and may I ask why this thread is still alive, but first, allow me to use the degenerate criticism fairy to deflate the opinion of anyone who tries to criticize me in future: Degenerate1: "Oh my god, it's still alive because idiots like you keep posting." Degenerate2: "If a cisgender staight white male said the same thing about women he would've been... (caveman grunts)" it's sarcastic, okay? (it's 2017 and I still almost got banned on another forum for saying this) well hard to argue since i havent watched prison school i made the off hand comment through few clips that i saw of the anime anyways i think the Author's vision should always be respected else how we gonna achieve freedom of speech |
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15poundfish said: flannan said: I have no idea who these "National Organization for Women" are. I also don't care much for your American politics. Your two-party system leads to all sorts of hypocrisy. I don't see what is wrong with campaigning against drafting of women - you Americans have all-professional army, not drafted army, right? And that's the way it should be everywhere. People need to be working, not marching. Then the military might get enough money to arm themselves properly. If an organization or ideology claims to be for gender equality they should be campaigning for gender equality not just when its convenient. Western Feminism is not about equality its a collectivist movement that supports segregation, racism and sexism. its a group of authoritarians that try to thought police others and demonize people based on their sex, culture and skin color. When they enter hobbies it becomes about social politics its no longer about having fun with the hobby and creative freedom. Its slowly coming into anime, but it will be difficult to penetrate because of language and cultural barriers. Japan doesn't have the cancerous Feminism yet but it will go there eventually through the westernization and influence of world leaders. Japan is one of the worst places for gender equality in the first world, progression is good but it doesn't mean we should approve of the intolerant cancer that is western feminism whether in politics or in anime. flannan said: 1) Note that feminism is very much an individualist movement, so Japan being collectivist is inherently something I expect them to fight against. 2) An issue that affects two genders in different ways is an issue feminism is expected to fight against. 3) I have no idea which issues are "real" to you, and frankly I do not care. If you have real issues, go and fight for them, do not fight against other people's issues. Make the world a better place. 4) Women are most attractive in high school (yes, some scientists somewhere did a study!), but that does not mean they should get married at that time, it means we should work harder on rejuvenation technology, and get rid of marriage while we're at it. 5) Common sense is for cowards. 1) Individualism is better than collectivism generally, but in some cases individualism can also be terrible. A good society makes use of the good parts of both. Feminism is also not really individualist, it believes in social justice which is a part of the collectivist mindset. flannan said: You are not allowed to define what is feminist and what isn't, Not when you didn't even watch the anime and your idea of feminism is screwed by conservative propaganda. You don't know what feminism is like in the west, so don't talk like you know anything. A presidential candidate can openly say white people and men are the problem and no not get shouted down for being a sexist and racist. That is what feminism is in America. You can hold openly intolerant racist and sexist views as long as you are part of the right " oppressed minority" group. Also, your categories of what is feminism in anime is meaningless because they barely have anything to do with feminism. A strong female lead is not feminist, a socially conservative women can be a strong female lead and not be a lick of feminist. When you call something feminist, it should be all about being feminist which means like diving into feminist philosophy and being in support of it. A strong male lead in an anime is not a MRA, so why the double standards for strong female leads? Anime is not feminist in the same way a Certain Magical Index is not Christian. Maybe feminist anime will come out in the future, but I doubt it would sell anymore than moe blob or ecchi anime. The thing is, we already have Utena (which was about breaking the Charming prince role as far as I know) and we will have Persona 5 in 2018 which will slightly touch on such issues as well. (although P5 is not really about feminism) The real problem with the modern Toxic kind of Feminism is that quite a lot of outlets spew out ignorance by saying stuff like: - Pepe is a White nationalist symbol, which is not true. pepe a character who just wants to chill and Became a flexible meme. - gamers being misogynist, which is also not true. Gamers don't care about gender most of the time, they just want to have fun. |
| Simple, the Anime Community does not want Feminism in their Anime. |
AnimeotakuWeeb said: Gonna love the double standard in feminst thinking They'll bitch and complain about ecchi and moe shows Then go back to shoujo/reverse harem/josei/Yaoi show With 1 dimensional male that are only there as sex objects Feminists have been hypocrites since their movement first started, campaigning for the right of all women to vote, while only some men could vote. They've never been about equality, just self interest. |
AnimeotakuWeeb said: Kize said: I see normal that a Nazi and someone who only consumes ecchi and hentai. Be against feminism. Shoujo and Josei are demographics that comprise a large amount of subjects and styles. There are Shojos of historical drama, science fiction among others. Although usually emphasizes in human and sentimental relations. There are some Shoujo (like Shoujo Kakumei Utena, Natsume Yuujinchou ...) and many Josei (Like Shouwa Geroku Rakugo, Chihayafuru ...) Which are superior to any ecchi. And what's wrong with yaoi? I do not care if a romance series is homosexual or straight. As long as it is good, and do not have explicit erotic content. What to do when you have no agurment Call someone a nazi Every normal person is against Feminism, and the poll supports that. |
AnimeotakuWeeb said: Nyu said: Every normal person is against Feminism, and the poll supports that. "sarcastic voice" geez I wonder why It is because it's a hate movement Only delusional people think Feminism is about Equality. Or they're stupid enough to fall for the propaganda. |
When a nazi is being called a nazi. Cry about it because you have no argument. |
Nyu said: Lately I've noticed some threads, advocating for politics to be forced into anime, like it has been forced into Western TV, Movies and Games. The particular politics is very toxic, it's modern Feminism, do you want this divisive politics ruining your animes? So when these lunatics try to force their politics on us, we should let them know the anime community disavows Feminism. so what do you think of belladonna of sadness or evangelion |
Nyu said: Every normal person is against Feminism, and the poll supports that. That usually happens when you create a poll with only two options and the wording ensures that both support your agenda. I for instance am not going to vote in there. |
Your poll isn't really the best because it leaves absolutely no room for any nuance. It's like one of those extreme right politicians who only get votes because they yell alot and leave little to no room for any differing opinion, but I guess that's no surprise when you have Hitler in your favorites. |
 |
| There are genuine feminists watching anime and shitposting in the forums? Man their network is too scary. Sometimes im always thinking if the parallel world nymi would find a cure for cancer but instead of finding a cure for cancer they just saw this thread. |
"When you made this thread, I cried and screamed" -Swagernator 2017 |
Maneki-Mew said: I really don't activitely care about it in anime, because there were many female characters I liked very much. It's my personal preference to prefer male characters most times and my real favorites are all-male (I don't know why either), but there were enough likeable and all foremost respectable girls with an actual personality and the same amount of strengths and flaws imo. I just felt like they put as much effort in them as in the male characters and so I'm okay with many or enough of them. Of course, it's not always the case and there are genres, where female characters are there to fulfill the desires of the viewers, but I don't watch so many of them. So, I just don't care about the 1000th generic harem girls? XD I don't want "feminism" in anime, I just want likeable and respectable female characters. Not necessarily as "role models", because I recently thought that authors are afraid to give characters (and their relationships), who should have such a function, too many or severe flaws. There are only two anime coming to my mind instantly, I didn't like for "feminist-reasons" - and those were Chobits and Amnesia. I mean, the whole premise of both stories is that the personality of both girl gets literally lost / isn't really there at all. Chi was the worst epitome of moe and "the perfect waifu", because there was not much room for talking back, much of an own will and deeper / more complicated thoughts etc... obviously she isn't capable of it. The heroine from Amnesia is not just dumb af, she lets everyone walk over her and she's not even worth a name. XD EDIT: My bad! The thread was made by Nyu. Nothing to expect here. I should have read the startpost. /).- I would've given this an in-depth reply, hadn't you added that statement at the end. Seems some people can't be civil. |
| Not really sure about that. All I know is that Aho Girl is one of the best example of showing respect to womens. |
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Moorym said: Not really sure about that. All I know is that Aho Girl is one of the best example of showing respect to womens. Feminism /=/ Respectable female characters. An anime can have respectable female characters without being Feminist. Try learning the definition. |
Nyu said: Moorym said: Not really sure about that. All I know is that Aho Girl is one of the best example of showing respect to womens. Feminism /=/ Respectable female characters. An anime can have respectable female characters without being Feminist. Try learning the definition.  >Aho Girl >respectable female XDXDXDXDXD.... KEK... i need to said that you really overly defensive there.... |
 "If taking responsibility for a mistake that cannot be undone means death, it's not that hard to die. At least, not as hard as to live on." |
Nyu said: Moorym said: Not really sure about that. All I know is that Aho Girl is one of the best example of showing respect to womens. Feminism /=/ Respectable female characters. An anime can have respectable female characters without being Feminist. Try learning the definition. oh please -_- of course I know it's meaning, I just want to tell that Feminism is not that necessary to create a good anime. |
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Kuma said: Nyu said: Feminism /=/ Respectable female characters. An anime can have respectable female characters without being Feminist. Try learning the definition. i need to said that you really overly defensive there.... I haven't seen every anime, so I couldn't know Moorym was making a joke. |
Moorym said: Nyu said: Feminism /=/ Respectable female characters. An anime can have respectable female characters without being Feminist. Try learning the definition. oh please -_- of course I know it's meaning, I just want to tell that Feminism is not that necessary to create a good anime. I never said Feminism was necessary to create a good anime, this thread is against Feminism. |
you can always at very least check it statement dude... |
"If taking responsibility for a mistake that cannot be undone means death, it's not that hard to die. At least, not as hard as to live on." |
Acceptable reason. Try to watch that animu, it's good. ^.^ |
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Nyu said: Maneki-Mew said: I really don't activitely care about it in anime, because there were many female characters I liked very much. It's my personal preference to prefer male characters most times and my real favorites are all-male (I don't know why either), but there were enough likeable and all foremost respectable girls with an actual personality and the same amount of strengths and flaws imo. I just felt like they put as much effort in them as in the male characters and so I'm okay with many or enough of them. Of course, it's not always the case and there are genres, where female characters are there to fulfill the desires of the viewers, but I don't watch so many of them. So, I just don't care about the 1000th generic harem girls? XD I don't want "feminism" in anime, I just want likeable and respectable female characters. Not necessarily as "role models", because I recently thought that authors are afraid to give characters (and their relationships), who should have such a function, too many or severe flaws. There are only two anime coming to my mind instantly, I didn't like for "feminist-reasons" - and those were Chobits and Amnesia. I mean, the whole premise of both stories is that the personality of both girl gets literally lost / isn't really there at all. Chi was the worst epitome of moe and "the perfect waifu", because there was not much room for talking back, much of an own will and deeper / more complicated thoughts etc... obviously she isn't capable of it. The heroine from Amnesia is not just dumb af, she lets everyone walk over her and she's not even worth a name. XD EDIT: My bad! The thread was made by Nyu. Nothing to expect here. I should have read the startpost. /).- I would've given this an in-depth reply, hadn't you added that statement at the end. Seems some people can't be civil. No, srsly, then you shouldn't add such a poll? It's very biased and by no mean neutral. But I'm really surprised that you don't complain about my answer tbh. I think, you could say it's some sort of feminism to put the same effort in female characters. It should be self-evident to do it, but it's not always the case. The best thing to do is creating different people with different goals and character types imo. With this simple (and also self-evident?) rule, the author doesn't give the vibe of stereotyping or being sexist towards one gender. See, I also don't have a problem with a female character, who wants to be a house wife or something similar traditional (no judging here), if it's her own will / goal and 20 other female characters have completely different goals. But I have problems with characters like Chi and a nameless heroine, who just... don't seem like they have their own mind at all? AnimeotakuWeeb said: Gonna love the double standard in feminst thinking They'll bitch and complain about ecchi and moe shows Then go back to shoujo/reverse harem/josei/Yaoi show With 1 dimensional male that are only there as sex objects That's not true. Not for all / not for the majority. I can't stand male fanservice either. Free and also Yuri on Ice (ESPECIALLY Chris' ass shots damn it) would got higher scores from me, if the cringe wouldn't be there sometimes. Free goes really overboard with it. So yes, sexualizing boys is imo bad thing too. Or just a cringey thing to do. I don't care for "sexy scenes", if they are tasteful, but I can't stand the breaking point, where a character becomes nothing more than a sexual object in special scenes / as a whole ... if that makes sense for someone? ^^" Moe is not bad per se, imo. It's just a term to describe something cute and adorable, whatever (not even necessarily sexualized) and I'm okay with it / like it to some moderate level, when the characters don't appear as a little child appearance- and behaviorwise ... and behave like that for a few scenes. Also tbh, there are also "moe-scenes" for male characters. KyoAni got bad reputations for moe and sexism for example, but I think that their male characters are also cute-"moe" af. XD Haven't seen Hyouka yet, but I definitely will. Also someone tells me that Aki isn't cute? XD |
removed-userOct 2, 2017 2:29 AM
| Feminism and western ideologies in anime... You would think that after failing to convince Japanese that child pornography is bad for over 2 decades, you would realise that Japanese simply live in another world with a different set of rules. Western feminism can't work and will not work in Japan just like it doesn't work in East and Central Europe. Peoples simply have different values and see the world with different eyes. |
kronopyOct 2, 2017 11:57 AM
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kronopy said: Feminism and western ideologies in anime... You would think that after failing to convince Japanese that child pornography is bad for over 2 decades, you would realise that Japanese simply live in another world with a different set of rules. Western feminism can't work and will not work in Japan just like it doesn't work in East and Central Europe. Peoples simply have different valus and see the world with different eyes. Putting it that way.....Japan could use some more feminism and western values. |
kronopy said: Feminism and western ideologies in anime... You would think that after failing to convince Japanese that child pornography is bad for over 2 decades, you would realise that Japanese simply live in another world with a different set of rules. Western feminism can't work and will not work in Japan just like it doesn't work in East and Central Europe. Peoples simply have different valus and see the world with different eyes. True but only in the ideal scenario of nations and cultures being isolated units, which I don't believe is the case anymore. Japan is already exposed to Western culture and values. |
james501 said: kronopy said: Feminism and western ideologies in anime... You would think that after failing to convince Japanese that child pornography is bad for over 2 decades, you would realise that Japanese simply live in another world with a different set of rules. Western feminism can't work and will not work in Japan just like it doesn't work in East and Central Europe. Peoples simply have different valus and see the world with different eyes. Putting it that way.....Japan could use some more feminism and western values. Why? The West is a disaster because of those values... I don't know how you guys see the future, but here from outside (Central Europe), is quite obvious to everyone that the West is collapsing. Your liberal values are the reason for that.... So, just hurry up and collapse already and set an example so the rest of us don't repeat your mistakes... jal90 said: True but only in the ideal scenario of nations and cultures being isolated units, which I don't believe is the case anymore. Japan is already exposed to Western culture and values. It is the case actually... You are wrong if you think that individualism between nation is dead. Being exposed to something is different from adopting that something. For example we are exposed to islamic ideologies now, but that doesn't means that any of us will end up becoming a muslim. Or a better example: The East Europe and Central Europe are exposed to the LGBTQ (did I write that corectly?) civil movement from the West, yet most of those countries changed their Constitutions to define the marriage as an union between a man and a woman, and many countries who didn't yet, are working on it. This is a clear answer against the rights that Westerners gave to the homosexuals, and make it quite clear that East Europe will not adopt that principle. The reality is that right now, nationalism is on rise in Japan. So if you though that Japan was isolated before, it will get much worse in the future. |
|
| Dat bait thread, tho... Seriously, if you're not even going to pretend to listen to both sides, what the heck is the point of making a poll? What's the point of even making this thread? To prove, once again, that the anime community has no awareness of the diversity of thought within modern feminism and is only willing to acknowledge radical feminism as existing? Don't you think we get that already? Also, how many rhetorical questions was that in a row? Too many? Should I stop yet? Yes? No? Maybe? |
| "Bang." -Spike Spiegal "Everything... is connected." -Lain Iwakura "Life is too short to watch bad anime. Long Live the 1st Episode Drop." -InkSpider "Anime fans make me embarrassed to be an anime fan." -InkSpider |
kronopy said: Why? The West is a disaster because of those values... I don't know how you guys see the future, but here from outside (Central Europe), is quite obvious to everyone that the West is collapsing. Your liberal values are the reason for that.... So, just hurry up and collapse already and set an example so the rest of us don't repeat your mistakes... Well, for one , referring to the context of the comment I quoted, Japan could use a little more sensitivity regarding depiction of children in sexual situatons. You cant do much about their porn comics but at least extinguish it from normal shows. |
kronopy said: Why? The West is a disaster because of those values... I don't know how you guys see the future, but here from outside (Central Europe), is quite obvious to everyone that the West is collapsing. Your liberal values are the reason for that.... So, just hurry up and collapse already and set an example so the rest of us don't repeat your mistakes... jal90 said: True but only in the ideal scenario of nations and cultures being isolated units, which I don't believe is the case anymore. Japan is already exposed to Western culture and values. It is the case actually... You are wrong if you think that individualism between nation is dead. Being exposed to something is different from adopting that something. For example we are exposed to islamic ideologies now, but that doesn't means that any of us will end up becoming a muslim. Or a better example: The East Europe and Central Europe are exposed to the LGBTQ (did I write that corectly?) civil movement from the West, yet most of those countries changed their Constitutions to define the marriage as an union between a man and a woman, and many countries who didn't yet, are working on it. This is a clear answer against the rights that Westerners gave to the homosexuals, and make it quite clear that East Europe will not adopt that principle. The reality is that right now, nationalism is on rise in Japan. So if you though that Japan was isolated before, it will get much worse in the future. And the Whole America going to shit is thanks to Trump who fails to unite America. In fact he only made the divide bigger in America. At least the LGBTQ movement in west europe is not as bad as in America. My country has accepted gay marriage without problem, the only lingering issue is the refugee issue. Really this whole PC shitstorm is just made possible thanks to the internet, making ppl have thinner skins and offended easier. And this comes from someone who leans towards the left (not a full lefty). |
InkSpider said: Dat bait thread, tho... Seriously, if you're not even going to pretend to listen to both sides, what the heck is the point of making a poll? What's the point of even making this thread? To prove, once again, that the anime community has no awareness of the diversity of thought within modern feminism and is only willing to acknowledge radical feminism as existing? Don't you think we get that already? Also, how many rhetorical questions was that in a row? Too many? Should I stop yet? Yes? No? Maybe? "what the heck is the point of making a poll?" To show that the Anime Community is against Feminism. "is only willing to acknowledge radical feminism as existing?" We recognise that moderate feminism exists, and that is the real problem, not a bunch of people complaining online. Moderate Feminists support censorship (like when the UN tried to ban anime) and they support systemic discrimination, such as Affirmative Action. |
| [quote=AnimeotakuWeeb message=52533901] Bourmegar said: kronopy said: Why? The West is a disaster because of those values... I don't know how you guys see the future, but here from outside (Central Europe), is quite obvious to everyone that the West is collapsing. Your liberal values are the reason for that.... So, just hurry up and collapse already and set an example so the rest of us don't repeat your mistakes... And this comes from someone who leans towards the left John cena meme Are you sure about that Epic music, in the fight against true evil! |
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