2weeaboo4u said: Clebardman said: Still waiting for your definition with references. And I mean better references than "it's my opinion". My definition is based on logical reasoning, not an appeal to authority. You should look up Merriam-Webster's definition of feminism and then ask yourself if dictionaries should be trusted 100% of the time. Srsly why the fuck are you arguing for 3 pages if you're arguing about a fucking definition that you made up and only you knows ? GOD DAMN the level of trollishness >>> 9000. Pffff, don't expect to be taken seriously by me EVER again. |
Prophetess of the Golden Era  |
| You're dumb but don't worry, I have my own definition of dumb because I'm able of independent thought. Still not a compliment. |
Prophetess of the Golden Era |
ashfrliebert said: Yup! Both are different, I won't deny. Both are different forms of animated cartoons. 2weeaboo4u said: No, a cartoon is only one type of animation. An animation, such as an anime, is not necessarily a cartoon. Your denying "definitions" because you're wrong and don't want to admit this, it's semantics, nothing more. Animated cartoons and anime differ alot in stylization, but it doesn't rocket science to realize they are both animated cartoons. And both made for the television screen. A cartoon is a form of two-dimensional illustrated visual art. While the specific definition has changed over time, modern usage refers to a typically non-realistic or semi-realistic drawing or painting intended for satire, caricature, or humor, or to the artistic style of such works. An artist who creates cartoons is called a cartoonist.[1] Animated cartoon, which is, for the most part generally shorten to cartoons by everybody ever in casual conversations An animated cartoon is a film for the cinema, television or computer screen, which is made using sequential drawings,[Note 1] as opposed to animations in general, which include films made using clay, puppet and other means. Anime (Japanese: アニメ?, [anime] ( listen)), also informally romanized as animé, are Japanese animated productions featuring hand-drawn or computer animation. In Japan the word refers to all animation, being a shortened form of the rōmaji animēshon ("animation").[1] Outside Japan, the meaning of the word anime can vary slightly; definitions include animation from Japan or, alternatively, a Japanese-disseminated animation style often characterized by colorful graphics, vibrant characters and fantastical themes.[2][3] Cultural discussions are whether or not one is silly and one has serious things has nothing to do with it. Anime is animation, that's the way it is. It's not a semantics discussion, this goes back to "anime are superior to american conversation" belief/opinion that 90% of people in this thread believe(whatever, fine by me) and your using that to twist definitions or some reason. Because you don't want to acknowledge you're watching a cartoon. BRUH IT'S NOT A CARTOON, IT'S MATURE AND AND IT HAS GOOD ANIMATION. yeah no. 1The biggest similarities is both having the majority animated, needless to say, that's not minimal. If you want me to break down "story" differences and similarities, sure. . They both usually have a story 2. They both usually have characters 2. Both are animated. Every single one of these similarities are very obviously huge, because they are both animated television shows, no, they are both stories in general. That's just what comes with the package of being an animated television show. These are all extremely minimal similarities, and that's because they are all extremely broad similarities. So broad as to mean nothing. Look at all these huge similarities! I can hardly tell which is American and which is Japanese. They are both animated, different forms of animation, different stylization of animation, but both animation. That's the GIGANTIC similarity. Because, like I said in the thread, they are of different cultures. And in the case of something like Steamboat Willie, different times. They are different, that was my whole point from the beginning. But they also are one in the same, as well. Similarities as well as differences. Like how this looks nothing like that ghilbi looking thing you showed me. Or, hell, how adventure times has a different stylization than most animated shows anyway. www.youtube.com/watch?v=2oTAHuZHzKU A difference is that there seems alot more anime tailored at older audiences in japan than there are in America. Or at least they are more popular. There is very little animation in America that's for adults and not a comedy. In Japan there's more of it than anyone has time to watch. That's what I just said. Speaking of semantics, I'm right. They 'are' both animation, despite having drastically different styles. Like Lucky Star being nothing like that anime you linked. Adventure Time for one, has a completely different style from most american animated cartoons even, so not quite a good example. You don't notice the cultural elements in American entertainment because you're so used to them. Perhaps. but this only supports my point that they are different by cultural differences and animation differences. And not by literally being different things, they are the same thing. Attack On Titan's animation is amazing, Lucky Star is filled with shrunken characters that should be several times taller, but it's an animation style. That's just the way it is. And it has 0 shading like the ghilbi-looking film you've linked. However, your post that was quoted on the top of the page is, on the other hand, wrong. do you live in the 60s with a tv that only plays looney tunes lmao you said: What are you talking about? "Cartoons are short and simple comedic films that revolve around exaggerated and impossible physical comedy, dancing, music and singing, and anthromorphic animal characters. There's little dialogue. Movements and expressions are exaggerated" - you Exaggerated physical comedy, anthropomorphic animal characters. LITTLE DIALOGUE? This is like straight up a Looney Toon cartoon wtf man. Why are you even talking about this? You have completed FIVE anime shows. FIVE (edit: fixed number). What makes you think you are remotely qualified to be having this argument? Why are even trying to have this argument? Because I know that anime are mostly animated cartoons with several cultural differences, that's what it is. I know the definition of words. Secretly and surely, mr "2weeaboo4u" was secretly just was a weeb. Now we bring back my point that animated american television shows also can and do focus on serious themes, as well. And probably why people try vehemently, so hard, to deny the fact that their watching cartoons. You're trying to justify it with mature themes, or gore(lol). As if the ladder makes the former true, of if the former isn't true to american cartoons either. For your sake, I sincerely hope you were at least raised in Japan. But it's ridiculous how people still try to justify watching cartoons because "it's serious and mature" above that of western cartoons as they fawn at Goku screaming for 8 consecutive episodes. It's OKAY to watch cartoons, okay? I won't judge you. You embark the "hypocritical" behavior I pointed out way earlier, that is acknowledging anime can be mature yet american animation having "maturity" is only in crude comedy. Have you ever watched Spawn? 2weeaboo4u said: Clebardman said: You're dumb but don't worry, I have my own definition of dumb because I'm able of independent thought. Still not a compliment. If you were capable of independent thought, you wouldn't unquestionably regard a dictionary definition of cartoon as some sacred text handed down from the heavens by God himself. Secretly, "Oi" actually means "I love you" and "everything" means "to inform". We humans make up words, so it can be anything you want! Kappa Man, you need more self confidence. "I like cartoons", say it! Edit: This discussion has made me want to watch Digimon Tamers. |
ashfrliebertOct 1, 2015 2:19 PM
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| Spawn rox :3 |
Prophetess of the Golden Era |
2weeaboo4u said: They have mature themes like anime does in much the same way that an old Nokia phone from twenty years ago plays video games like a contemporary $1,500 desktop computer does. Have you ever watched Spawn? Should I have? Lol. Who would have guessed some anime fans were close-minded uneducated weebs ? |
Prophetess of the Golden Era |
2weeaboo4u said: Clebardman said: Lol. Who would have guessed some anime fans were close-minded uneducated weebs ? Why does not having watched a particular American animated work make me a closed-minded uneducated weeb? If your knowledge on western comics/cartoons is so bad that you don't know the comic that revived the whole industry (and had a cartoon adaptation), there's no need to discuss anymore. |
Prophetess of the Golden Era |
| ^^an example on why people despise Japanimation |
| Twitter and it's consequences had been a disaster for the human race |
Remv_quevav said: ^^an example on why people despise Japanimation Exactly. |
Prophetess of the Golden Era |
2weeaboo4u said: No, I'm not. I expected nothing less. Anime is animation, not cartoons. Okay, it's not cartoons, it's animated cartoons. Better? Because you don't want to acknowledge you're watching a cartoon. BRUH IT'S NOT A CARTOON, IT'S MATURE AND AND IT HAS GOOD ANIMATION. yeah no. For your sake, I sincerely hope you were at least raised in Japan. But it's ridiculous how people still try to justify watching cartoons because "it's serious and mature" above that of western cartoons as they fawn at Goku screaming for 8 consecutive episodes. It's OKAY to watch cartoons, okay? I won't judge you. And here it comes. This is what very often happens when people try to argue that cartoons and animation are simply the same thing. They eventually get frustrated, lose their patience and accidentally reveal their real thoughts: that cartoons are something childish, trivial and cheap, and that I don't want anime to be called cartoons because I want to pretend like they're something more mature and high quality than they really are, when in fact they are just lousy cartoons that I'm ashamed to admit to watching. You were just bullshitting all along, and now I know why your MAL is so deserted: you faked it just to make yourself seem like you're "one of the fans." In reality, you are against anime and came here to attack it. Most of the shows on your list are well-known ones that someone not familiar with anime would pick. In the past, someone who didn't like anime would simply say so, but nowadays people are starting to take on the mentality and strategies of astroturfers, clickbait bloggers and professional trolls. For no reason other than spending their free time attacking a hobby they don't like. What a world we live in. But let's continue with this shitshow for the sake of neutralizing his disinformation. You're missing the point. I literally made an entire point about how cartoons were and could be completely serious for an adult audience, that's the point. It's still an animated cartoon, though. My point is you're trying to justify it by adding on "it's mature so it's not a cartoon". I literally already said that. True, most my anime are mainstream, but I'm on "myanimelist" why would I dislike anime. I think it's okay to dislike anime, though. And I think there are fine reasons to. That was the whole point of my last part wtf. Did you just choose to ignore the "it's okay to watch cartoons" part entirely? Did you think it was sarcasm? Let me break it down again "people still try to justify watching cartoons" "it's okay to watch cartoons" Meaning you DO NOT have to justify it, it's not something that you should think to justify. Because it's completely fine and okay. They are both animated, different forms of animation, different stylization of animation, but both animation. That's the GIGANTIC similarity. Because, like I said in the thread, they are of different cultures. And in the case of something like Steamboat Willie, different times. It's a broad and therefore minimal similarity, like saying any two animals are gigantically similar just because they're both animals. The differences between American animation and anime include such things as: character design, animation, shot composition, backgrounds, visual language, editing, camera work, writing, genres, story conventions, character archetypes, language, culture, society, sound design, music, voice acting, production, business model, merchandising, fan activity... no matter what you think of, there are almost certainly many differences to be found. Very different, actually. Except I'm not sure what voice acting has to do with it, but it's entire cultural is different, everything is different in comparison to american cartoons. Except the BIG part of what makes fully animated animated shows is being fully animated. That's my entire point. Two different animals are different, but you cannot really deny they are both animals and that animals are usually divided as, uh, not human/plant. We do have insects, too though. Except budget and production, budget is just budget. The fact that Japan spends more money on their animation doesn't..really stop it from being american animation, it's the whole "being in japanese, having japanese cultural references and having a anime-style that japan has created" part. Because they are different. But both being animation is such a huge similarity though, it's like a GIGANTIC similarity. Obviously, they have too many differences too ever be called one in the same even in a random remark not related to the convo. Like Lucky Star being nothing like that anime you linked. The videos I linked are also different from each other. I never said anime has has just one style. Adventure Time for one, has a completely different style from most american animated cartoons even, so not quite a good example. It's very clearly a product of American animation, but more importantly it's completely different from anime. The big point is that it's in a different style from it's usual american animations though, just like Lucky Star. If things look more better, that has nothing to do with sylization, it has to do with budget and maybe animation skills. Which is something that varies and can't be pinned to anime or american animation. And it has 0 shading like the ghilbi-looking film you've linked. All of them have shading and none of them are related to or similar to Ghibli. Lucky Star also has shading, even if it isn't very strong. It doesn't have as strong as a shading, sorry. Better? Exaggerated physical comedy, anthropomorphic animal characters. LITTLE DIALOGUE? This is like straight up a Looney Toon cartoon wtf man. You mean my description of a cartoon is like straight up a cartoon? I think that means I'm on the right track. Yeah, a cartoon from the, 30s-60s. If you're using that as your baseline your failing miserably. How does 1960s anime compared? I'd like to be proven wrong. The majority of cartoons released in the last 20 years I'm pretty sure have dialogue lmao. Secretly and surely, mr "2weeaboo4u" was secretly just was a weeb. I don't think you know what a weeaboo is. wapanese? blapanese? Or maybe you're just japanese, who knows. Now we bring back my point that animated american television shows also can and do focus on serious themes, as well. They have mature themes like anime does in much the same way that an old Nokia phone from twenty years ago plays video games like a contemporary $1,500 desktop computer does. Even comedies have mature themes, no matter how bad(or good) they handle it. So this is stupid. It's not about being more mature, it's about just being developed in general. Lack of "immaturity". Non-comedy mature animation aren't common, I'd admit. But it's not really an inherent thing. And probably why people try vehemently, so hard, to deny the fact that their watching cartoons. You're trying to justify it with mature themes, or gore(lol). As if the ladder makes the former true, of if the former isn't true to american cartoons either. I''m pretty sure I didn't say anything about gore. Sorry, it was a generalization. Have you ever watched Spawn? Should I have? Yes |
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Remv_quevav said: ^^an example on why people despise Japanimation Tbh, you are right, though I'm not exactly helping, it's the heights people (not even japanese) go to defend watching cartoons because it's "more superior". Literally not even one thing wrong with cartoons, I ain't hatin. It's really the stigma that watching cartoons while 20+ is a bad thing, , that good old 2weeb is riled up anyway. People (Japanese or not, but especially non-japanese) go to heights to defend watching these cartoons, they don't stop to think not that "hey I like cartoons and that's okay" but " I'm not watching cartoons, which is not okay, I'm actually watching anime". "Maturity" and "cartoons" aren't antonyms and can mutually exist, not to say it does often, but it can and does. And if 2weeabo carries that belief that watching cartoons makes him immature, he'll defend the fact that "it's not cartoon it's actually anime" to death. But, honestly? The thing that perpetuates the belief around anime in general, is that there are people who defend "muh japanese cartoons" to death anyway. It's a cycle man, smh. OP, this is your answer. |
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Zergneedsfood said: Wait, so what's a cartoon? American anime, duh. edit: Actual answer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cartoon#Animation Used synonymously with "american animation" mostly, I think. However, it's used with "animation" behind it and wa-la! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animated_cartoon#Television It'd be more appropriate to replace all instances of cartoon with "animation" in general perhaps. It's really a cultural thing and not a definition thing, saying "anime is more mature animation" therefore doesn't work. But I'm not going to sit here and deny adult animation in america is anywhere near as common as japan, it wouldn't surprise me if there's a small stigma against animation in both. But, like in america, it might have more support than negatives against it in Japan. |
ashfrliebertOct 1, 2015 5:30 PM
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Zergneedsfood said: also what is anime either? isn't japan people it self calling "western animation" anime?Wait, so what's a cartoon? |
 "If taking responsibility for a mistake that cannot be undone means death, it's not that hard to die. At least, not as hard as to live on." |
absentminded said: Zergneedsfood said: also what is anime either? isn't japan people it self calling "western animation" anime?Wait, so what's a cartoon? It might just be a cultural thing that's used by the cultural to refer to another? edit: No Anime (Japanese: アニメ?, [anime] ( listen)), also informally romanized as animé, are Japanese animated productions featuring hand-drawn or computer animation. In Japan the word refers to all animation, being a shortened form of the rōmaji animēshon ("animation").[1] Outside Japan, the meaning of the word anime can vary slightly; definitions include animation from Japan or, alternatively, a Japanese-disseminated animation style often characterized by colorful graphics, vibrant characters and fantastical themes.[2][3] Arguably, the stylization approach to the meaning may open up the possibility of anime produced in countries other than Japan.[4][5][6] For simplicity, many Westerners strictly view anime as an animation product from Japan.[3] Some scholars suggest defining anime as specifically or quintessentially Japanese may be related to a new form of orientalism.[7] |
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ashfrliebert said: so, we just ignoring the cuture that actually make it, and using western meaning instead?absentminded said: It might just be a cultural thing that's used by the cultural to refer to another?also what is anime either? isn't japan people it self calling "western animation" anime? edit: No Anime (Japanese: アニメ?, [anime] ( listen)), also informally romanized as animé, are Japanese animated productions featuring hand-drawn or computer animation. In Japan the word refers to all animation, being a shortened form of the rōmaji animēshon ("animation").[1] Outside Japan, the meaning of the word anime can vary slightly; definitions include animation from Japan or, alternatively, a Japanese-disseminated animation style often characterized by colorful graphics, vibrant characters and fantastical themes.[2][3] Arguably, the stylization approach to the meaning may open up the possibility of anime produced in countries other than Japan.[4][5][6] For simplicity, many Westerners strictly view anime as an animation product from Japan.[3] Some scholars suggest defining anime as specifically or quintessentially Japanese may be related to a new form of orientalism.[7] |
"If taking responsibility for a mistake that cannot be undone means death, it's not that hard to die. At least, not as hard as to live on." |
absentminded said: [ so, we just ignoring the cuture that actually make it, and using western meaning instead? I meant "no" to my original post, not yours, don't worry. While that seems to be it-as in it is used to refer to another by westerners for whatever reason, that doesn't seem to be the entire story for japan. edit: If by "we" you mean for this thread and website in total(My"Anime"List?). Yes. |
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2weeaboo4u said: They are far more credible than some random guy on the internet.DrGeroCreation said: LOL this guy 2weeb4u is now saying that the dictionary definition is wrong. Dictionaries are not the word of God. People that think all cartoons are only for kids are just plain ignorant likewise for people who think all anime is super mature and only for adults. Hell the golden age theatrical animated shorts were never specifically for kids considering targeting kids through cartoons didn't exist at that time. 2weeaboo4u said: You heard wrong. The Golden age theatrical animated shorts are still popular among adults and hardly ever shown on Cartoon Network now for kids to be fully exposed to them.I have heard that cartoons in the early 20th century were intended for adult/general audiences, but today only children would be interested in most of them. 2weeaboo4u said: That only really applies to the older generations (people who grew up in the 60's, 70's and 80's). During the 60's when cartoons moved to television, Saturday morning cartoon blocks were created specifically to target children. Advertisers would use the blocks to air commercials promoting toys and other merchandise ( related to the cartoons ) to kids. That is how the idea of cartoons are for kids came about. That concept began to change in the 90's because of Batman TAS and Gargoyles being able to really appeal to older audiences as well as kids and the rise in popularity of adult animated sitcoms . The popularity of Batman TAS in the 90's and the DCAU in the early 2000's caused DC (Warner Bros) to focus on creating comic book animated movie adaptions targeting adult comic book readers not kids . The popularity of the Simpsons on Fox caused Cartoon Network to create a block called Adult Swim mainly for adult cartoons.And when people think of cartoons today they think of children's entertainment. TheBrainintheJar said: Agreed , French animated kid movies are far more mature in storytelling than an adult animated sitcom like Family Guy. I don't know about Pixar animated movies though considering I don't really watch them. Also the underrated 90's cartoon Fish Police is jam packed with cleverly hidden sexual innuendo that would fly over kid's heads. I have never seen that happen in any adult animated sitcom but it's always done in the anime Shimoneta. Only just saying words like pussy, boner etc. is majorly used as comedy in the anime Shimoneta.A lot of 'for kids' animated films are pretty mature, too. Pixar destroys most 'adult' humor. They got actual jokes, while 'adult' comedias just go PISS SHIT SEX RAPE HAHA. |
DrGeroCreationOct 2, 2015 1:10 AM
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Zergneedsfood said: Wait, so what's a cartoon? Shit like Code Lyoko!!! |
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DrGeroCreation said: 2weeaboo4u said: They are far more credible than some random guy on the internet.Dictionaries are not the word of God. People that think all cartoons are only for kids are just plain ignorant likewise for people who think all anime is super mature and only for adults. Hell the golden age theatrical animated shorts were never specifically for kids considering targeting kids through cartoons didn't exist at that time. 2weeaboo4u said: You heard wrong. The Golden age theatrical animated shorts are still popular among adults and hardly ever shown on Cartoon Network now for kids to be fully exposed to them.I have heard that cartoons in the early 20th century were intended for adult/general audiences, but today only children would be interested in most of them. 2weeaboo4u said: That only really applies to the older generations (people who grew up in the 60's, 70's and 80's). During the 60's when cartoons moved to television, Saturday morning cartoon blocks were created specifically to target children. Advertisers would use the blocks to air commercials promoting toys and other merchandise ( related to the cartoons ) to kids. That is how the idea of cartoons are for kids came about. That concept began to change in the 90's because of Batman TAS and Gargoyles being able to really appeal to older audiences as well as kids and the rise in popularity of adult animated sitcoms . The popularity of Batman TAS in the 90's and the DCAU in the early 2000's caused DC (Warner Bros) to focus on creating comic book animated movie adaptions targeting adult comic book readers not kids . The popularity of the Simpsons on Fox caused Cartoon Network to create a block called Adult Swim mainly for adult cartoons.And when people think of cartoons today they think of children's entertainment. TheBrainintheJar said: Agreed , French animated kid movies are far more mature in storytelling than an adult animated sitcom like Family Guy. I don't know about Pixar animated movies though considering I don't really watch them. Also the underrated 90's cartoon Fish Police is jam packed with cleverly hidden sexual innuendo that would fly over kid's heads. I have never seen that happen in any adult animated sitcom but it's always done in the anime Shimoneta. Only just saying words like pussy, boner etc. is majorly used as comedy in the anime Shimoneta.A lot of 'for kids' animated films are pretty mature, too. Pixar destroys most 'adult' humor. They got actual jokes, while 'adult' comedias just go PISS SHIT SEX RAPE HAHA. Hidden sexual innuendo is also boring. I'm talking about actual wit, punchlines and funny characters. The characters of Toy Story are funny. Just seeing them interact, each with his silly personality is funny. They don't need to name-drop celebrities. |
| WEAPONS - My blog, for reviews of music, anime, books, and other things |
| fandoms can usually turn people off something, like people might see the way a lot of anime fans act and be put off it from that. i think it's sad that those people can't develop an opinion on anime without looking at the embarrassing convention crawling weeaboo types..but those people are stuck in their ways so.. Clebardman said: Please don't force me to post anthropomorphic animals from anime, I'm too lazy to do it.  |
soymilkyyOct 2, 2015 3:36 AM
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| Because chinese cartoons are for children and plebs who don't have a social life. |
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TheBrainintheJar said: That's subjective and sexual innuendo can be witty.Hidden sexual innuendo is also boring. I'm talking about actual wit, punchlines and funny characters. The characters of Toy Story are funny. Just seeing them interact, each with his silly personality is funny. They don't need to name-drop celebrities. @2weeb4u It's pretty obvious to me now that you are self conscience because you have been called childish for liking anime. 2weeaboo4u said: Golden age theatrical shorts have more fluid animation than certain modern anime. Adult animated sitcoms like Family Guy and Simpsons and modern versions of those non serious old cartoons like Tom and Jerry and Looney Tunes are outsourced as well so you have no point.American shows have piss-poor animation, production values and filmmaking. The better stuff (Avatar, Korra, OVAs based on superhero franchises) is mostly if not entirely outsourced to Korea or Japan 2weeboo4u said: Yeah that's why kids anime like Doraemon, Shin Chan are super serious, that's why K-On, Lucky Star and other moe anime are super serious, that's why Shimoneta an anime with a main villain covered from head to toe in panties is super serious, that's why ecchi harem anime with teenaged male protagonists that can't properly interact with the opposite sex is super serious. OH MY GOD sucking boobs to increase power = super serious and super mature.Anime is made seriously and intended to be taken seriously by older audiences, and that's considered unacceptable by most people Such seriousness such wow    |
DrGeroCreationOct 2, 2015 4:15 AM
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| Guys guys guys guys It really doesn't matter whether you call it cartoons or animated series. It really doesn't. Honestly. It doesn't. |
| WEAPONS - My blog, for reviews of music, anime, books, and other things |
| I look down on people who look down at something |
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2weeaboo4u said: TheBrainintheJar said: Guys guys guys guys It really doesn't matter whether you call it cartoons or animated series. It really doesn't. Honestly. It doesn't. Cartoons are a different thing than anime, and cartoon is a derogatory term that people such as ashfrliebert use to attack anime. If a person is going to use 'cartoon' as a derogatory insult, I'll probably write off anything s/he has to say about animation. Powerpuff Girls, Dexter, Ed, Edd 'n' Eddy and Megas XLR are all brilliant cartoons. |
| WEAPONS - My blog, for reviews of music, anime, books, and other things |
2weeaboo4u said: Cartoons are a different thing than anime, and cartoon is a derogatory term that people such as ashfrliebert use to attack anime. TheBrainintheJar said: If a person is going to use 'cartoon' as a derogatory insult, I'll probably write off anything s/he has to say about animation. Powerpuff Girls, Dexter, Ed, Edd 'n' Eddy and Megas XLR are all brilliant cartoons. what i was saying the whole thread I never used cartoons as a derogatory term, in fact I said the exact opposite, that there was nothing wrong with them. In that your problem seems to stem from other people using cartoons as a derogatory term, so that's how you see it. That was my whole point... I'm on myanimelist, sure I've watched like five mainstream anime, but that doesn't stop them from being anime. I don't see how you can draw the conclusion I'm against it. Cartoons is not a degeotary term, the real problem here is your(2weeabo) belief that it is. Which is why you're trying to "defend" it. But it's not, okay? I hope that settles it. It's undeniable to say people view cartoons in a negative way though, you can write it off, but that's not going to stop them at all. And that's one of the reasons they look down on anime(in america at least). I'm answering the question of the thread, you can disregard someone's opinion(not 'my' opinion), but you can't pretend they don't have it. My problem is people disregarding american animation having the ability to be mature yet holding the belief that anime can be mature. Which I view as hypocritical. I have never used it as a derogatory term this entire thread, but the opposite. Hence why I argued both american animation and anime can both be mature, while both being cartoons. That was my whole point throughout this entire thread. I hope it is clear. |
ashfrliebertOct 2, 2015 12:28 PM
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2weeaboo4u said: Anime being cartoons is factually correct, anime are Japanese cartoons. You vehemently denying that doesn't change that fact. You are trying to justify watching anime to people who think you are childish for watching it by claiming it's not cartoons. The idea that anime are not cartoons and that all anime are super serious business only for adults and all cartoons are just silly is extremely detrimental to the anime fanbase. This notion is what causes new commers to expect all anime to be super serious and dark and when they don't encounter that they make threads claiming that anime is dying even though silly stuff always existed in anime and there has always been a lot of non serious anime. This notion is what causes elitism within the anime community. Seinen fans looking down on battle shonen fans, comedy anime being seen as inferior to other genres, fans of serious psychological and crime drama anime (Lain, Bebop, Monster etc.) looking down on fans of cute girls doing cute things anime and fans of comedy ecchi harem anime, people looking down on One Piece for being silly " like a cartoon". Anime not being cartoons helps create misconceptions about anime as a medium.And what you're really saying here is that me not accepting someone's factually incorrect claim that anime are cartoons means that I'm being "defensive" about, and trying to "justify," watching anime. 2weeaboo4u said: Golden age theatrical shorts for the most part had well drawn and detailed background art and used either classical music as BGM or songs from popular artists of the time like Cab Caloway, Frank Sinatra, Bing Cosby or songs featured in live action movies of that time for example the Lady in Red song from the movie In Caliente being featured in the Merrie Melodies theatrical short the Lady in Red.Golden age theatrical shorts also have poor animation, production values and filmmaking compared to anime. Fluidity is not the only thing that counts in animation. 2weeaboo4u said: Those shows being good has nothing to do with them being outsourced and it is only the animation that is outsourced for them. The writing, character designs, backgrounds, music, voice acting, animatics are all done in the American studios. Plus the shows you are looking down on are outsourced as well .How exactly does that invalidate my point? 2weeaboo4u said: Wow pot calling the kettle black you are the one generalizing all cartoons as being golden age theatrical shorts and denying that Disney animated movies, adult animated sitcoms and superhero cartoons are cartoons. Cartoons can have high production values and tell serious stories and anime can be silly and not tell serious stories.At no point did I so much as imply that comedy anime doesn't exist, or that all anime is deadly serious. Are you pretending to be stupid or do you actually not know what a generalization is? Have you actually not watched anime? The basic philosophy behind anime is that animation can and should be used to tell serious, ambitious stories in any genre and about any subject matter, with complex plots and characters, high production values and cinematic techniques. Even Lucky Star adheres to basic cinematic principles, whereas in American animation (everything from early cartoons to high-end Disney movies to modern shows) it's very common to see stageplay principles instead. The camera assumes the position of the audience in a theatre, the characters move left and right as if they were on a stage, their gestures are very exaggerated (in a real stageplay this is necessary so everyone in the audience can understand what the actors are conveying), and they don't seem to truly inhabit the environment they're in; the backgrounds lack depth and a strong sense of place, and there's the sense that if a character started walking away from the camera she would bump into the background painting. American shows are mostly episodic and lack sustained narratives, and their range of genre, subject matter, and tone is extremely limited compared to anime. The idea of seriousness permeates almost all anime, one way or another You do know that stage plays were what theatre was all about and theatre was a precursor to cinema? I only notice the camera assuming the position of the audience in golden age theatrical cartoons never in modern cartoons. In golden age cartoons the backgrounds never look out of place to me and it never feels to me like a character can bump into the background. Exaggerated gestures and facial expressions are also very common in anime (especially comedy anime) and some golden age theatrical shorts like Disney's Silly Symphonies the characters don't even use them. Exaggerated facial expressions in anime I'm not seeing that type of exaggerated expressions by the main protagonists in this Silly Symphony short at all Serial storytelling isn't automatically superior to episodic storytelling and an episodic show can have a sustained narrative because of plot points being carried over. Adventure Time is a good example of this and I find it has far better storytelling than certain serial anime like SAO, NGNL, Mirai Nikki. Seriousness can permeate kids cartoons as well. Batman TAS, Avatar, Samurai Jack, Over the Garden Wall, Adventure Time, Steven Universe , Star Wars the Clone Wars, Wolverine and the X men etc. are all examples. |
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2weeaboo4u said: I already know you're an astroturfer. Nothing you say will make any difference. My problem is people disregarding american animation having the ability to be mature yet holding the belief that anime can be mature. Which I view as hypocritical. It's not hypocritical. The fact is that when it comes to maturity and serious stories etc. American animation is completely outclassed by anime. It's not even a contest. Define 'maturity'. I agree Western cartoons rarely go for the darkness of Digimon Tamers. So what? Does that make Megas XLR, Powerpuff Girls and Ozzy & Drix less creative, funny and clever? There are cartoons that slip to darkness. Courage the Cowardly Dog is a surrealistic horror that is scarier than almost everything out there. It's so weird. Western animated cinema is different, and it has plenty of dark and serious moments: The Iron Giant, Toy Story 3, The Brave Little Toaster, Finding Nemo, The Prince of Egypt. |
| WEAPONS - My blog, for reviews of music, anime, books, and other things |
2weeaboo4u said: I already know you're an astroturfer. Nothing you say will make any difference. Ah yes, you figured me out! This MyAnimeList user secretly hates anime! It's really funny though, you probably don't like what you are, but you are what you hate(mind you, not what "I" hate). You are the person who says "anime is for children", except the other way around. Except on the other side. You're that person. It's not hypocritical. The fact is that when it comes to maturity and serious stories etc. American animation is completely outclassed by anime. It's not even a contest. This is not a "thing" one can outclass the other on being-unless you mean the quantity of it. Also, this does not stop it from being a cartoon, anyhow. Animated cartoon doesn't equate to "comedy" or ""aimed at children", at all. That's just not how it works. It's sad I have to say this, but demography doesn't make the medium. The point I'm trying to make is that it's not a mutually exclusive thing. DrGeroCreation said: Anime being cartoons is factually correct, anime are Japanese cartoons. You vehemently denying that doesn't change that fact. You are trying to justify watching anime to people who think you are childish for watching it by claiming it's not cartoons. The idea that anime are not cartoons and that all anime are super serious business only for adults and all cartoons are just silly is extremely detrimental to the anime fanbase. This notion is what causes new commers to expect all anime to be super serious and dark and when they don't encounter that they make threads claiming that anime is dying even though silly stuff always existed in anime and there has always been a lot of non serious anime. This notion is what causes elitism within the anime community. Seinen fans looking down on battle shonen fans, comedy anime being seen as inferior to other genres, fans of serious psychological and crime drama anime (Lain, Bebop, Monster etc.) looking down on fans of cute girls doing cute things anime and fans of comedy ecchi harem anime, people looking down on One Piece for being silly " like a cartoon". Anime not being cartoons helps create misconceptions about anime as a medium. Very well said. |
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| People hate anime because users like 2weeaboo4u are in its fanbase |
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| Let's make it more simple and make something clear; cartoon means animation, just as anime means animation. So, whether you call anime an cartoon or cartoon an anime they're both animation, the only thing different is that the West uses the term Cartoon to refer to animated movies or series, while the Japanese use the term anime to refer to animated movies or series. |
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| Why are people still arguing with Weeaboo? All they've done since they started posting is argue over dumb little things or made little passive aggressive posts while making things up and claiming them as fact with no source to back up what they say. This isn't the first time they've done this. Also apparently anyone who disagrees with their flawed logic is an "astroturfer." Obvious troll is obvious. |
| アル晴レタ日ノ事 魔法以上のユカイが 限りなく降りそそぐ 不可能じゃないわ |
There is a most appropriate response towards people like this: |
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