Rokka no Yuusha Episode 7 Discussion

zerorequiem_ said:
Some more insight on Adlet's past this episode. And it looks like both him and Fremy have gotten just a bit closer. That aside, I just love Hans style, it makes me wish the fight dragged on a bit longer.

On another note, I think I have finally cracked the case and am positive Nashetania is the seventh.

For those who have yet to read my theory, I'll post it again here:

After replaying the OP for who knows how many times (note that the OP has had certain scenes cut out from it and replaced since episode 1), I've come to the conclusion that everything in the OP has meaning to it. Now, there are plenty of problems in my theory that have yet to be explained, but I'll be using the most recent OP (basically last episode's one) to tie up some loose ends. By the way, here are some of the flaws I'll be addressing: [spoiler]
1. If Riura is indeed dead, then where is her body?
2. How do you explain the sword being in the dias and the lack of an incantation after Adlet opened the temple door?
3. Exactly what are the seventh's motives?
4. Are the soldiers at the castle fiends or not?

1. In the OP, the most interesting frames are the ones with what looks like a crocodile. However, thanks to this episode, it's revealed to be the fiend that visited Adlet's village in the past. But that aside, there are two feathers in particular on top of its hat (does it remind you of a certain someone?). After we get to see that eerie sight, the camera then changes its point of view to the crocodile's eye, which opens up. The way I take, it represents a heartbeat. In other words, there is something living, or was living, inside of it. Back in episode 5 (1:58-2:04) Adlet and Hans were searching around the forest and found bodies of dead fiends laying around. These led me to think, "what could be hidden inside of a dead corpse?" The answer is just about anything. Now, like I said before, If Riura is indeed dead, then where exactly is her body? Where is the proof? I believe that inside of a fiend with characteristics of a crocodile (which I assume is dead and somewhere within the forest) you'll find it. In other words, I think that, hidden within the forest, there is fiend (who is most likely dead) that conspired with the seventh, who also ate Riura, the Sun Saint, that lies her within its stomach.

2. This one took me the longest time to think through (though there are still some things I just can't figure out). First and foremost, disregard everything we've heard about activating the barrier since I am convinced it is all a lie. Alright, so the fact that the temple door was taken out by a simple bomb explosive is ludacious (Seriously, Adlet opened the door with a bomb just like in Zelda). So what if that door wasn't created by the Saint of Seals, but rather someone else? In other words, the door Adlet opened was not the original, but a replica. In my theory I had said that Nashetania might have set an elaborate plan in motion from the time Adlet was in confinement (for those 2 or 3 months). What if during that time she not only abducted Riura, but also managed to enter the temple in a different manner (not through the temple door, that is). At the beginning of episode 6, Adlet had said, "They dug a hole into the chamber, moved a stone in the floor to sneak in, and activated the barrier." The first time I watched the episode I looked it over, but the OP made me reconsider his words. In the OP, between 1:17-1:19 in this episode, it depicts Chamlot coming out from underground and accompanying what looks like fiends (which also leads me to believe that she has a power that can involve fiends). A trademark of Chamot is that foxtail she is always carrying around. And In the OP, after coming out from underground, what accompanies her are rocks covered with what looks like vomit/drool and fiends that soon pop out from under that liquid. Now, foxtails, when lodged in the throat, can cause symptoms of gagging. Maybe within Chamot's stomach lies a nest for fiends (though when I say this, I don't nessecarily mean to suspect her of being the seventh or being involved with the Demon God. Perhaps it is her way of fighting, you know, like being a tamer and having those fiends fight for you). Anyways, Chamot aside, what Adlet said makes me believe that there is something important that lies beneath the ground. My guess is that it is the secret to activating the barrier. And on that note, I think I know what the true process is. Back in episode 4, there was a specific order or events that took place during the attempt to "disactivate" the barrier. First, Goldof took the sword out of the dias, second, Adlet cut hit hand and let blood flow into it (while saying an incantation), and third, Nashetania broke the stone tablet and then proceeded to sputter an incantation. Said steps are most likely the true way to activate the barrier. While Adlet was spouting out all of these theories, I must admit that I agree that with the one where the seventh came through the floor. He had also said, "The one who did it opened the door, entered, took off the door, and made a new one to seal the temple". And if you inspect the temple door during ep 4 (12:25), you'll notice that it is a different color than the rest of the temple. My guess is that the door is a fake.

3. Motives are a very hard thing to figure out. But if Nashetania is in fact the seventh, then her motives would be divided into two cases. Case 1: Nashetania wants to exact revenge on her father who attempted to execute her during the civil war or case 2: Nashetania doesn't desire revenge, but something like world peace instead. Now, I think it's the latter. Why? Well, back in episode 2, during a conversation between her and Adlet, she said, "Back then, all I dreamed of was a night when I could sleep without fear of death. If I could give that to the entire world, it wouldn't bother me how often I sleep on the hard ground!" And I'm going to stick to my gut and believe that, at that moment, Nashetania did not speak falsehood. If that's the case, then it would make perfect sense. Nashetania has teamed up with the Demon God (which is idiotic since I doubt the Demon God would care for her in the slightest bit and is just using her in order to take out the six braves who stand in his way) to reach her mundane goal. Another thing that has caught my attention is the name of the 2nd OP song, "Black Swallowtail." A swallowtail is a type of butterfly that "practices Batesian mimicry, a behavior in which the butterflies' appearance closely resemble that of distasteful species that prevents predation." Another definition taken from Wikipedia, "Batesian mimicry is a form of mimicry typified by a situation where a harmless species has evolved to imitate the warning signals of a harmful species directed at a common predator." On the outisde, Nashetania looks innocent and harmless, however, on the inside that is not the case. A swallowtail is a perfect example of Nashetania. And what made her evolve was perhaps her father's attempt to execute her. Also, the 1st OP song, "Cry for the Truth," can also add on to Nashetania's motives. The lines, "Tachimukae ikusen mebuku sono konnan ni / Shiro ka kuro ka abaku sono shukumek ni" can translate to "Stand in opposition, against these thousands of blooming perils / stand against that fate that draws division between black and white." Now, if you were to the abolish the division between white and black, what would happen? Just like a yin-yang symbol, the world too is broken into white and black, however, there is a thin line that seperates this two colors. Nashetania lies within that thin line and desires to break the balance, which she assumes will result in world peace. The line "Naze konna ni kokoro wa kizutsuiteru no?" which translate to "Why has my heart been wounded this much?" would further reinforce the notion of a desired one colored world. This "wound" could refer to the pain Nashetania has gone through (losing her mother and brother along with having her own father order her execution). In order to never feel that way again, attaining a world filled with only peace is her only option.

4. I believe they are. In episode 3 if you watch from the moment Adlet and Fremy entered the caste, you'll notice that none of the soldiers have any sign of blood on, or damage to, their bodies. I find that ridiculous. With all the dead soldiers and fiends laying around, it'd be impossible for those soldiers to have no signs of being in combat whatsoever. And so, this denies the thought that anything Lauren (the private first-class) said is true and allows for more speculations. In other words, everything we have heard regarding the process for activating the barrier is a lie.

zerorequiem_ said:
Some more insight on Adlet's past this episode. And it looks like both him and Fremy have gotten just a bit closer. That aside, I just love Hans style, it makes me wish the fight dragged on a bit longer.

On another note, I think I have finally cracked the case and am positive Nashetania is the seventh.

For those who have yet to read my theory, I'll post it again here:

After replaying the OP for who knows how many times (note that the OP has had certain scenes cut out from it and replaced since episode 1), I've come to the conclusion that everything in the OP has meaning to it. Now, there are plenty of problems in my theory that have yet to be explained, but I'll be using the most recent OP (basically last episode's one) to tie up some loose ends. By the way, here are some of the flaws I'll be addressing: [spoiler]
1. If Riura is indeed dead, then where is her body?
2. How do you explain the sword being in the dias and the lack of an incantation after Adlet opened the temple door?
3. Exactly what are the seventh's motives?
4. Are the soldiers at the castle fiends or not?

1. In the OP, the most interesting frames are the ones with what looks like a crocodile. However, thanks to this episode, it's revealed to be the fiend that visited Adlet's village in the past. But that aside, there are two feathers in particular on top of its hat (does it remind you of a certain someone?). After we get to see that eerie sight, the camera then changes its point of view to the crocodile's eye, which opens up. The way I take, it represents a heartbeat. In other words, there is something living, or was living, inside of it. Back in episode 5 (1:58-2:04) Adlet and Hans were searching around the forest and found bodies of dead fiends laying around. These led me to think, "what could be hidden inside of a dead corpse?" The answer is just about anything. Now, like I said before, If Riura is indeed dead, then where exactly is her body? Where is the proof? I believe that inside of a fiend with characteristics of a crocodile (which I assume is dead and somewhere within the forest) you'll find it. In other words, I think that, hidden within the forest, there is fiend (who is most likely dead) that conspired with the seventh, who also ate Riura, the Sun Saint, that lies her within its stomach.

2. This one took me the longest time to think through (though there are still some things I just can't figure out). First and foremost, disregard everything we've heard about activating the barrier since I am convinced it is all a lie. Alright, so the fact that the temple door was taken out by a simple bomb explosive is ludacious (Seriously, Adlet opened the door with a bomb just like in Zelda). So what if that door wasn't created by the Saint of Seals, but rather someone else? In other words, the door Adlet opened was not the original, but a replica. In my theory I had said that Nashetania might have set an elaborate plan in motion from the time Adlet was in confinement (for those 2 or 3 months). What if during that time she not only abducted Riura, but also managed to enter the temple in a different manner (not through the temple door, that is). At the beginning of episode 6, Adlet had said, "They dug a hole into the chamber, moved a stone in the floor to sneak in, and activated the barrier." The first time I watched the episode I looked it over, but the OP made me reconsider his words. In the OP, between 1:17-1:19 in this episode, it depicts Chamlot coming out from underground and accompanying what looks like fiends (which also leads me to believe that she has a power that can involve fiends). A trademark of Chamot is that foxtail she is always carrying around. And In the OP, after coming out from underground, what accompanies her are rocks covered with what looks like vomit/drool and fiends that soon pop out from under that liquid. Now, foxtails, when lodged in the throat, can cause symptoms of gagging. Maybe within Chamot's stomach lies a nest for fiends (though when I say this, I don't nessecarily mean to suspect her of being the seventh or being involved with the Demon God. Perhaps it is her way of fighting, you know, like being a tamer and having those fiends fight for you). Anyways, Chamot aside, what Adlet said makes me believe that there is something important that lies beneath the ground. My guess is that it is the secret to activating the barrier. And on that note, I think I know what the true process is. Back in episode 4, there was a specific order or events that took place during the attempt to "disactivate" the barrier. First, Goldof took the sword out of the dias, second, Adlet cut hit hand and let blood flow into it (while saying an incantation), and third, Nashetania broke the stone tablet and then proceeded to sputter an incantation. Said steps are most likely the true way to activate the barrier. While Adlet was spouting out all of these theories, I must admit that I agree that with the one where the seventh came through the floor. He had also said, "The one who did it opened the door, entered, took off the door, and made a new one to seal the temple". And if you inspect the temple door during ep 4 (12:25), you'll notice that it is a different color than the rest of the temple. My guess is that the door is a fake.

3. Motives are a very hard thing to figure out. But if Nashetania is in fact the seventh, then her motives would be divided into two cases. Case 1: Nashetania wants to exact revenge on her father who attempted to execute her during the civil war or case 2: Nashetania doesn't desire revenge, but something like world peace instead. Now, I think it's the latter. Why? Well, back in episode 2, during a conversation between her and Adlet, she said, "Back then, all I dreamed of was a night when I could sleep without fear of death. If I could give that to the entire world, it wouldn't bother me how often I sleep on the hard ground!" And I'm going to stick to my gut and believe that, at that moment, Nashetania did not speak falsehood. If that's the case, then it would make perfect sense. Nashetania has teamed up with the Demon God (which is idiotic since I doubt the Demon God would care for her in the slightest bit and is just using her in order to take out the six braves who stand in his way) to reach her mundane goal. Another thing that has caught my attention is the name of the 2nd OP song, "Black Swallowtail." A swallowtail is a type of butterfly that "practices Batesian mimicry, a behavior in which the butterflies' appearance closely resemble that of distasteful species that prevents predation." Another definition taken from Wikipedia, "Batesian mimicry is a form of mimicry typified by a situation where a harmless species has evolved to imitate the warning signals of a harmful species directed at a common predator." On the outisde, Nashetania looks innocent and harmless, however, on the inside that is not the case. A swallowtail is a perfect example of Nashetania. And what made her evolve was perhaps her father's attempt to execute her. Also, the 1st OP song, "Cry for the Truth," can also add on to Nashetania's motives. The lines, "Tachimukae ikusen mebuku sono konnan ni / Shiro ka kuro ka abaku sono shukumek ni" can translate to "Stand in opposition, against these thousands of blooming perils / stand against that fate that draws division between black and white." Now, if you were to the abolish the division between white and black, what would happen? Just like a yin-yang symbol, the world too is broken into white and black, however, there is a thin line that seperates this two colors. Nashetania lies within that thin line and desires to break the balance, which she assumes will result in world peace. The line "Naze konna ni kokoro wa kizutsuiteru no?" which translate to "Why has my heart been wounded this much?" would further reinforce the notion of a desired one colored world. This "wound" could refer to the pain Nashetania has gone through (losing her mother and brother along with having her own father order her execution). In order to never feel that way again, attaining a world filled with only peace is her only option.

4. I believe they are. In episode 3 if you watch from the moment Adlet and Fremy entered the caste, you'll notice that none of the soldiers have any sign of blood on, or damage to, their bodies. I find that ridiculous. With all the dead soldiers and fiends laying around, it'd be impossible for those soldiers to have no signs of being in combat whatsoever. And so, this denies the thought that anything Lauren (the private first-class) said is true and allows for more speculations. In other words, everything we have heard regarding the process for activating the barrier is a lie.

yuliyana29 said:


In that case, why even bother to adapt the LN into anime? So CRUEL T_T

yUuRi_03 said:
So basically, this season's story will be just about seven people, trapped in a certain location due to a spell and will put their wits out to determine a fake hero and try kill to kill him or her. meh..

sheesh..pretty slow development and not going to be surprised if the last episode, they still won't be able to get out from that trap.

The fiend though...disturbing.

ThreePointer said:
This show better get a second season.

yUuRi_03 said:
So basically, this season's story will be just about seven people, trapped in a certain location due to a spell and will put their wits out to determine a fake hero and try kill to kill him or her. meh..

sheesh..pretty slow development and not going to be surprised if the last episode, they still won't be able to get out from that trap.

The fiend though...disturbing.

Visceras said:
I never saw so many clichês in one single episode .. the most annoying one being the clichê cliffhanger ending where the MC is in "danger" when we know nothing will happen but for the plot sake he has to be in danger .. ofc then we have plot shields but who the fuck cares.


Plus, Was I supposed to give a fuck about their past when they tell it in that way .. "My Nakama died to save me .. Now I want to get stronger to save save them and don´t lose anyone else.." Please just .. please can´t you make a single MC for once? This shit already pisses me off.

By far, the worst episode of this series so far..

The saint of the mountains says "It is too dangerous to be alone, we should get in pairs and search for Adlet".. Right after that Chamon leaves on her own to do some shits that I don´t even know about and the "Nyan Nyan" stays alone in the temple for plot reasons. Pff ..

Ugoki said:


Still better than other recent fantasy LN MCs *cough* Overlord *cough*

Visceras said:
I never saw so many clichês in one single episode .. the most annoying one being the clichê cliffhanger ending where the MC is in "danger" when we know nothing will happen but for the plot sake he has to be in danger .. ofc then we have plot shields but who the fuck cares.


Plus, Was I supposed to give a fuck about their past when they tell it in that way .. "My Nakama died to save me .. Now I want to get stronger to save save them and don´t lose anyone else.." Please just .. please can´t you make a normal MC for once? This shit already pisses me off.

By far, the worst episode of this series so far..

The saint of the mountains says "It is too dangerous to be alone, we should get in pairs and search for Adlet".. Right after that Chamon leaves on her own to do some shits that I don´t even know about and the "Nyan Nyan" stays alone in the temple for plot reasons. Pff ..

Gov said:


Give me Overlords story over this one.

The cliches in this anime is something unreal to observe.

bibotot said:


The flashbacks are disjointed, and the part where Adlet's friend and sister were killed is just explained. I am rather disappointed I do not get to see it, because now I don't feel for them as much as I should have. Both characters' background, while interesting, do not provide much of anything new to the concoction. If they somehow bring back these details in the series, that would be great, but for now, I am not very impressed.

Gov said:


Give me Overlords story over this one.

The cliches in this anime is something unreal to observe.

Ugoki said:


Better a well-executed cliche than a terrible "original"

Gov said:
Give me Overlords story over this one.

bibotot said:


Let's wait for the first one to end. If it is unsatisfying and serves only to bait for an endless stream of sequels, then it deserves to fail and die.

MasaneX said:


Interesting theory, did you think of that yourself ?

Ugoki said:


Better a well-executed cliche than a terrible "original"

zerorequiem_ said:

Correct me if I'm wrong but, aren't the sales pretty disappointing? Then again, an anime with poor sales can still manage to have a sequel so...

Gov said:


Not sure if trolling....

Zefyris said:
Some peoples here haven't realized yet it seems. How much the author like to push the reader in thinking something is predictable and cliché before completely surprising him. If you didn't got enough with the plot that started as a "chosen warriors to defeat the demon lord and curved into a completely unique mix of a detective plot in a fantasy setting with both closed room and closed circle, if you didn't notice it with some character's appearance compared to what they are, if you didn't notice it by wrongly believing last episode that Adlet's village was killed by fiends and that he trained for revenge, well, keep it up with your "cliché, cliché". When you saw that fiend happening on screen, I'm sure you were genius enough to think it would stop and salute politely without hurting anyone. So cliché for a past lolz~

Just to say, the author loves to do that. So it's continuing like that again and again.

Zefyris said:

The answer is probably given by the animation quality itself. Seems to me like they're quickly cutting cost. It started to really go bad when the first prediction of the BD/DVD sales went out. And the novel isn't selling either, the former volumes didn't enter one single time the top.


Sent it right back at you. Cliché, cliché, yet not being able to point a single one so far, am I wrong here?
To me that kind of comment since verry.. Hollow. There are things that you heavily criticize in this animation, sure. but just throwing words without nothing to back it up isn't going to cut it.

Zefyris said:
The answer is probably given by the animation quality itself. Seems to me like they're quickly cutting cost. It started to really go bad when the first prediction of the BD/DVD sales went out. And the novel isn't selling either, the former volumes didn't enter one single time the top.

Ugoki said:


Indeed. But the curious thing is how he doesn't completely go full subversion like making the demons actually good like so many other fantasy LNs. The demons here are still evil motherfuckers. But they're not just featureless evil. In the later novels, you'll get more on them.

It's keeping its heroic fantasy theme but throwing lots of twists and turns to keep it fresh.

Zefyris said:

The answer is probably given by the animation quality itself. Seems to me like they're quickly cutting cost. It started to really go bad when the first prediction of the BD/DVD sales went out. And the novel isn't selling either, the former volumes didn't enter one single time the top.


Sent it right back at you. Cliché, cliché, yet not being able to point a single one so far, am I wrong here?
To me that kind of comment since verry.. Hollow. There are things that you heavily criticize in this animation, sure. but just throwing words without nothing to back it up isn't going to cut it.

beast_regards said:


They were tasked to animate the one volume, given a budget for a whole season and started to work. Please correct me if I am wrong, but isn't whole season already made, they just air this as per schedule? Of course, my experience from working under budget usually involved running out of money two months earlier, it is actually pretty common thing in virtually every business, but I doubt they don't have everything already made. You will never meet deadline if you stop working in the middle.

Gov said:


Not sure if trolling....

Gov said:

Wtf did I just read here?

Jagd84 said:


Then please name another show that does a detective high fantasy story. Please predict the events of the entire of the six books (and counting) along with each character's motivations and actions.

Zefyris said:
That means less good freelance animator. Only ghibli doesn't work with freelance animators in japan.

Zefyris said:

Afaik, no. Doesn't work like that at all, and most of the animation is done by lots of different freelancers each week. They have two sources of income: the publisher requesting the adaptation paid for it, and the BD/DVD. So when the BD/DVD 's prediction sales are announcing catastrophic sales, they basically have to limit the loss by limiting how much they spend in outsourcing. That means less good freelance animator.
Only ghibli doesn't work with freelance animators in japan.

Zefyris said:

Actually, not really either. this goes out of the current episode discussion unfortunately, but that's actually another cliché which is

Gov said:


I wasn't sure if you were trolling because you used "well executed" to describe Rokka.

MasaneX said:


Irrelevant to the actual mystery ? And what's wrong with that ? Rokka no Yuusha isn't just about the Illusion Barrier, it needs the character building.

Actually, the bond between Fremy and Adlet is very relevant already in this mystery, because without it they wouldn't be able to solve it.

GSupernova said:


That's sort of the problem though - all this character building will ultimately lead to nowhere by the end of the cour(except for the back story of the 7th, as motive is important for the culprit). Like I said, I have no doubt it's important in later volumes of the story, but I just don't see the specifics coming into play by the end of this cour. So ultimately by the end of the cour, I think we'll have a) a lot of back story(assumedly, if the other characters are given similar treatment) and b) the resolution of the mystery(with whatever time is left over? IDK at this point). And it probably won't get another cour. That's it. Is that enough to say that the series was well worth the adaptation? I have no idea.

The more I think about it, this series feels to me like if they adapted the first episode of Umineko no Naku Koro ni in a 12 episode cour and then that was it.