Why is the anime industry in bad shape?

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Jan 2015

125

jpenobagel said:

That's true and the Japanese audience already demonstrates that point. The problem here is equating that with the audience that would form for 4K releases. You're speaking of niche of niche, whose monetary contributions would be insignificant in comparison and would grow more insignificant as the film releases age. It's not viable nor would it contribute much to the industry currently, as the re-releases would have to be aimed at the older cult series that still have a loyal fanbase (like Ghibli as you mentioned). But that doesn't do anything except make a little side profit from rehashing old content and it'll stay that way for 4K unless changes in the industry make 4K more viable as a whole.

The thing about 4k, is this: A lot of anime has already gotten a restoration for 1080p (Ghibli/Miyazaki stuff in particular). If the same treatement is given to them as most Hollywood movies (like Jaws) that are getting restorations, 4k rescans are used for the 1080p BD releases now, but the 4k tranfer already exists, it's just a matter of waiting for the format. My argument is that you will see a switch to streaming and probably some horrible, DRMed Steamlike platform, but the BD buying customers of today are going to want to upgrade to 4k when it comes just as shows went from LD to DVD, and DVD to BD. Streaming and digital downloads are never going to replace the need for optical media for the videophile market, or not for a long time at least, because of issues like data rot and the cost of creating a self healing RAID array to prevent it.

RichtheLionheart said:

That stems from the Japanese model. The ludicrous prices are marketed towards hardcore collectors, as everyone else in Japan just watch shows on TV/Stream or they rent it.

That I agree with, that model won't work in the U.S., and they're throwing money away by being shortsighted.

Jun 10, 2015 11:18 PM

#55

black1blade

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Aug 2014

8320

offmodel said:

Dullboy said:
Does it get better after ? I might pick it up again if so)

I am a bit of a bad person to ask, because I like the older OVAs and the light novels, but... I will say this. If you like a slow building fantasy more in the style of Record of Lodoss War than Berserk, you will like it. The storyline is pretty convoluted though (one reason I like Berserk a lot is that you always know who is who and why they're doing what they're doing), and the CG is bad in places (and I mean bad, not just jerky motion like in Sidonia). It picks up a little in pace after episode 1, but the CG doesn't improve all that much.

The art style is definitely awesome in the older versions because I love the final fantasy art guy.

Anime is good, fucking deal with it.

Jun 10, 2015 11:19 PM

#56

Winter 2017 tl;dr Season Preview

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Mar 2011

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Nicoreos said:

FGAU1912 said:

financially no it not
ethically it is

>ethically

Explain yourself please otherwise refer to below.

the slave wages most studios pay for one the resion ofe that there is over 30% or less unionniazion in the indsury

"If you tremble with indignation at every injustice, then you are a comrade of mine"

When the union's inspiration through the workers' blood shall run
There can be no power greater anywhere beneath the sun
Yet what force on earth is weaker than the feeble strength of one
For the Union makes us strong

Jun 10, 2015 11:37 PM

#57

fst

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Mar 2013

20064

FGAU1912 said:
there is over 30% or less unionniazion

...what? Is it more or less than 30%?

Jun 10, 2015 11:46 PM

#58

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Mar 2011

25072

fst said:

FGAU1912 said:
there is over 30% or less unionniazion

...what? Is it more or less than 30%?

typo

at last count ie talk to animators union head he said based on membership he say around between 26-31% od people in the industy are unionized it still hugely stupdilow i never expact 100% unionzation thats a pipe dream

id say 70--90% unionization should be the aim

"If you tremble with indignation at every injustice, then you are a comrade of mine"

When the union's inspiration through the workers' blood shall run
There can be no power greater anywhere beneath the sun
Yet what force on earth is weaker than the feeble strength of one
For the Union makes us strong

Jun 11, 2015 1:55 AM

#59

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Aug 2007

7550

Tenshi_Shura said:

Drunk_Samurai said:

Must have skimmed too fast. Either way that's wrong. Piracy has nothing to do with shitty business models.

Both are at fault. Piracy is illegal and disrespects the creators but it would've been avoided if anime were more accessible. But still, even if was accessible, people will still pirate because it's free. I'm not making sense, am I?

Wouldn't matter if the person had no intention on buying the product in the first place.

FGAU1912 said:

fst said:

...what? Is it more or less than 30%?

typo

at last count ie talk to animators union head he said based on membership he say around between 26-31% od people in the industy are unionized it still hugely stupdilow i never expact 100% unionzation thats a pipe dream

id say 70--90% unionization should be the aim

Unions are only good if they don't force you to also pay part of your paycheck towards the union itself.

Jun 11, 2015 6:55 AM

#60

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May 2012

18056

Selling more copies at a cheaper price and expanding the audience is a way better business model, however some Japanese companies refuse to license their brands to companies that will charge low prices. They are also quite scared of reverse importation.

That only works if demand is "elastic." Most every commentary I've seen about anime pricing in Japan indicates the market there is highly inelastic. There is a small contingent of intense fans with reasonably large amounts of disposable income who buy anime at Japanese prices. Attempts to expand the market by lowering prices have generally not been very effective. The increase in sales is usually insufficient to cover the loss of revenue from lower prices.

People in the US routinely complain about Aniplex's pricing model, but it makes perfect sense to me. When you are trying to sell into a market where you are competing with pirates, you have to charge a lot to those who are actually willing to buy your product. Aniplex also licenses its shows pretty widely to streaming services like Crunchyroll and Netflix. That provides another stream of revenue from the part of the market that will never buy BDs at $10/episode.

Westerners seem to think that the Japanese producers don't know anything about their markets and are quick to give advice. Most of the time that is just the arrogance of the young I suspect, but it also reeks of hubris to me. Japanese companies have been selling anime for decades now. I'm sure they understand the dynamics of their market much better than MAL contributors.

As for the question about when was the last time I paid for anime, I subscribe to both Crunchyroll and Funimation. In CR's case, I've been a subscriber for years now. My last physical purchases were the Mononoke DVD from Cinedigm and Shinsekai Yori from Sentai. If anyone ever releases the rest of Monster in R1, or Dennou Coil, I'll certainly buy those.

Zergneedsfood said:
Japan's economy has been in the dumps for two decades, but we've seen that various studios during these periods have made a shit ton of money.

I laughed when I read this. In 2013 the entire anime industry grossed about $2.4 billion. To put that figure in context, the online gaming company cygames, which owns the Shingeki no Bahamut franchise, had revenues of $1.8 billion.

SeijiSenseiJun 11, 2015 7:07 AM

Jun 11, 2015 7:15 AM

#61

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Mar 2011

25072

Drunk_Samurai said:

Tenshi_Shura said:

Both are at fault. Piracy is illegal and disrespects the creators but it would've been avoided if anime were more accessible. But still, even if was accessible, people will still pirate because it's free. I'm not making sense, am I?

Wouldn't matter if the person had no intention on buying the product in the first place.

FGAU1912 said:

typo

at last count ie talk to animators union head he said based on membership he say around between 26-31% od people in the industy are unionized it still hugely stupdilow i never expact 100% unionzation thats a pipe dream

id say 70--90% unionization should be the aim

Unions are only good if they don't force you to also pay part of your paycheck towards the union itself.

no the workers party and the japanese communust party fund the unions all ver Japan in every from they have major fincal backiing evne whe the wroker paty were in gon=voment thye funded union haerly

side note il also an aactve members of the wrokers party that how i met the union head

"If you tremble with indignation at every injustice, then you are a comrade of mine"

When the union's inspiration through the workers' blood shall run
There can be no power greater anywhere beneath the sun
Yet what force on earth is weaker than the feeble strength of one
For the Union makes us strong

Jun 11, 2015 7:28 AM

#62

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Mar 2011

25072

SeijiSensei said:

Selling more copies at a cheaper price and expanding the audience is a way better business model, however some Japanese companies refuse to license their brands to companies that will charge low prices. They are also quite scared of reverse importation.

That only works if demand is "elastic." Most every commentary I've seen about anime pricing in Japan indicates the market there is highly inelastic. There is a small contingent of intense fans with reasonably large amounts of disposable income who buy anime at Japanese prices. Attempts to expand the market by lowering prices have generally not been very effective. The increase in sales is usually insufficient to cover the loss of revenue from lower prices.

People in the US routinely complain about Aniplex's pricing model, but it makes perfect sense to me. When you are trying to sell into a market where you are competing with pirates, you have to charge a lot to those who are actually willing to buy your product. Aniplex also licenses its shows pretty widely to streaming services like Crunchyroll and Netflix. That provides another stream of revenue from the part of the market that will never buy BDs at $10/episode.

Westerners seem to think that the Japanese producers don't know anything about their markets and are quick to give advice. Most of the time that is just the arrogance of the young I suspect, but it also reeks of hubris to me. Japanese companies have been selling anime for decades now. I'm sure they understand the dynamics of their market much better than MAL contributors.

As for the question about when was the last time I paid for anime, I subscribe to both Crunchyroll and Funimation. In CR's case, I've been a subscriber for years now. My last physical purchases were the Mononoke DVD from Cinedigm and Shinsekai Yori from Sentai. If anyone ever releases the rest of Monster in R1, or Dennou Coil, I'll certainly buy those.

Zergneedsfood said:
Japan's economy has been in the dumps for two decades, but we've seen that various studios during these periods have made a shit ton of money.

I laughed when I read this. In 2013 the entire anime industry grossed about $2.4 billion. To put that figure in context, the online gaming company cygames, which owns the Shingeki no Bahamut franchise, had revenues of $1.8 billion.

as iv said Financial wise the indusry is fine
ethicwsie no so much

its so far be hind

as i said anime is at max 31% unionized
Video games indusry u way ahaed with around 60-64.5%
the film and tvelvion [ the japanese version of SAG] say uts got aorund 80% of its indusrty unionized
muisc is alot hard to get figuues for cause th e fact that big anacnry like H!P or jimusho do have to much contrnl

Japan 3rd laagert econamy in the world and the singe most unionzned in most cases

"If you tremble with indignation at every injustice, then you are a comrade of mine"

When the union's inspiration through the workers' blood shall run
There can be no power greater anywhere beneath the sun
Yet what force on earth is weaker than the feeble strength of one
For the Union makes us strong

Jun 11, 2015 10:40 AM

#63

Mountainstream

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Mar 2015

67

Whenever I see upcoming anime list, a far greater percentage seems to be storyline-less fanservice, with lots of girls looking surprised into the 'camera'.

Sure, there's a market for that, but if it's overflooded, the competition will strangle each other.

I'd rather see more out of the ordinary things, or just a good story about a guy beating people up (without using superpowers). Or anything really that is targeted at people with different interests.

Jun 11, 2015 10:53 AM

#64

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May 2012

18056

FGAU1912 said:
as iv said Financial wise the indusry is fine
ethicwsie no so much
[stuff about unions]

I don't see how what you wrote had anything to do with the things I mentioned like the price elasticity of demand for anime in the Japanese marketplace.

Also I find it so hard to understand your postings that it's usually not worth replying. Do you ever proofread what you write?

Jun 11, 2015 1:25 PM

#65

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Aug 2007

7550

SeijiSensei said:

Selling more copies at a cheaper price and expanding the audience is a way better business model, however some Japanese companies refuse to license their brands to companies that will charge low prices. They are also quite scared of reverse importation.

That only works if demand is "elastic." Most every commentary I've seen about anime pricing in Japan indicates the market there is highly inelastic. There is a small contingent of intense fans with reasonably large amounts of disposable income who buy anime at Japanese prices. Attempts to expand the market by lowering prices have generally not been very effective. The increase in sales is usually insufficient to cover the loss of revenue from lower prices.

People in the US routinely complain about Aniplex's pricing model, but it makes perfect sense to me. When you are trying to sell into a market where you are competing with pirates, you have to charge a lot to those who are actually willing to buy your product. Aniplex also licenses its shows pretty widely to streaming services like Crunchyroll and Netflix. That provides another stream of revenue from the part of the market that will never buy BDs at $10/episode.

Westerners seem to think that the Japanese producers don't know anything about their markets and are quick to give advice. Most of the time that is just the arrogance of the young I suspect, but it also reeks of hubris to me. Japanese companies have been selling anime for decades now. I'm sure they understand the dynamics of their market much better than MAL contributors.

As for the question about when was the last time I paid for anime, I subscribe to both Crunchyroll and Funimation. In CR's case, I've been a subscriber for years now. My last physical purchases were the Mononoke DVD from Cinedigm and Shinsekai Yori from Sentai. If anyone ever releases the rest of Monster in R1, or Dennou Coil, I'll certainly buy those.

Zergneedsfood said:
Japan's economy has been in the dumps for two decades, but we've seen that various studios during these periods have made a shit ton of money.

I laughed when I read this. In 2013 the entire anime industry grossed about $2.4 billion. To put that figure in context, the online gaming company cygames, which owns the Shingeki no Bahamut franchise, had revenues of $1.8 billion.

I highly doubt that it costs them that much to produce anime to charge atrocious amounts like that. A typical American cartoon with high quality animation (usually Marvel/DC show) don't even charge that much for their shows/movies on DVD.

Jun 11, 2015 1:28 PM

#66

Hahalollawl

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May 2013

760

SeijiSensei said:

Selling more copies at a cheaper price and expanding the audience is a way better business model, however some Japanese companies refuse to license their brands to companies that will charge low prices. They are also quite scared of reverse importation.

That only works if demand is "elastic." Most every commentary I've seen about anime pricing in Japan indicates the market there is highly inelastic. There is a small contingent of intense fans with reasonably large amounts of disposable income who buy anime at Japanese prices. Attempts to expand the market by lowering prices have generally not been very effective. The increase in sales is usually insufficient to cover the loss of revenue from lower prices.

People in the US routinely complain about Aniplex's pricing model, but it makes perfect sense to me. When you are trying to sell into a market where you are competing with pirates, you have to charge a lot to those who are actually willing to buy your product. Aniplex also licenses its shows pretty widely to streaming services like Crunchyroll and Netflix. That provides another stream of revenue from the part of the market that will never buy BDs at $10/episode.

Westerners seem to think that the Japanese producers don't know anything about their markets and are quick to give advice. Most of the time that is just the arrogance of the young I suspect, but it also reeks of hubris to me. Japanese companies have been selling anime for decades now. I'm sure they understand the dynamics of their market much better than MAL contributors.

As for the question about when was the last time I paid for anime, I subscribe to both Crunchyroll and Funimation. In CR's case, I've been a subscriber for years now. My last physical purchases were the Mononoke DVD from Cinedigm and Shinsekai Yori from Sentai. If anyone ever releases the rest of Monster in R1, or Dennou Coil, I'll certainly buy those.

Zergneedsfood said:
Japan's economy has been in the dumps for two decades, but we've seen that various studios during these periods have made a shit ton of money.

I laughed when I read this. In 2013 the entire anime industry grossed about $2.4 billion. To put that figure in context, the online gaming company cygames, which owns the Shingeki no Bahamut franchise, had revenues of $1.8 billion.

Yeah, I guess a lot of people think, oh if they made it cheaper more people would buy, but even if they sell a few more discs they would want to sell enough to make up for the loss from the lower pricing. Since the demand seems pretty inelastic, that seems unlikely, so might as well keep the price high and make more money.

I'm not sure if it's westerners, or just people in general who think they know what they're talking about and spout off things that don't necessarily fit reality. A hazard of the human condition perhaps. Anyways, for people complaining that anime doesn't appeal enough to westerners, maybe it would if westerners gave the industry a reason to think that there is a significant market in the west. But frankly, why should Japanese companies care what a few westerners think if it doesn't seem to affect their profits? As much as it might make sense for them to try to expand their audience, anime production companies seem very cautious to me (perhaps not just anime companies), so it makes sense that they would try to appeal to their core audience over the west.

Jun 11, 2015 2:04 PM

#67

Firelord76

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May 2009

2778

Tenshi_Shura said:

Drunk_Samurai said:

Must have skimmed too fast. Either way that's wrong. Piracy has nothing to do with shitty business models.

Both are at fault. Piracy is illegal and disrespects the creators but it would've been avoided if anime were more accessible. But still, even if was accessible, people will still pirate because it's free. I'm not making sense, am I?

If this were true, then why is the fansub scene decimated to a shell of tis former self? Ever since simulcasts became a thing, a lot of big fansub groups went belly-up, or stopped using original translations.

Also, the notion that pirates will never pay is wrong. According to several studies, if the offer is good, they'll gladly go legal. The problem is that the industry still delivers inferior products, or doesn't offer what the people truly want, thereby pretty much forcing them into piracy. And those who don't care never cared and never will. But these people shouldn't even be counted as potential buyers anyway.

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Jun 11, 2015 6:49 PM

#68

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Nov 2012

718

Well people.illegally download and stream constantly which isn't helping. Plus I think the Yen has just gotten worse and worse internationally as years have gone by so their economy is obviously going south. Its not anime though, its their country.

Jun 11, 2015 7:10 PM

#69

ayanami000

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May 2015

150

Because I thinks most of the animes now lacks an original and interesting plot. Some are like redefined from old ones. That's what im thinking off.

Jun 12, 2015 1:05 AM

#70

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Tomoki_Sakurai said:
Well people.illegally download and stream constantly which isn't helping. Plus I think the Yen has just gotten worse and worse internationally as years have gone by so their economy is obviously going south. Its not anime though, its their country.

Piracy has nothing to do with it.

Jun 12, 2015 1:13 AM

#71

Monad

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Jun 2008

15842

CrimBlacklotus said:

FloatsBoats said:
Is it in bad shape in the first place?

That's what I have heard.

You heard wrong. The artist and animator aren't payed very well but the industry ain't in a very bad shape.

Jun 12, 2015 1:21 AM

#72

chinesecartoonz

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Feb 2014

1484

I don't think the industry is in really bad shape tbh. I get the thing with the wages but as far as revenue they still get a lot.

Also, the pirates thing I call BS on. You can't put a price on how much is lost. If someone watches all the material for the series (all seasons, OVAs, specials,etc) then that might contribute to the impact however minuscule, but if someone watches the first half of ep1, pirated, then drops it, or even obeys the three ep rule, you can not equate that to one whole BD sale loss.

Jun 12, 2015 1:21 AM

#73

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718

Drunk_Samurai said:

Tomoki_Sakurai said:
Well people.illegally download and stream constantly which isn't helping. Plus I think the Yen has just gotten worse and worse internationally as years have gone by so their economy is obviously going south. Its not anime though, its their country.

Piracy has nothing to do with it.

Uh, no shit Sherlock.

Jun 12, 2015 1:24 AM

#74

ZetaZaku

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Feb 2008

4958

The anime industry is pretty much on life support. They live with stuff that has the highest demand, this time it being waifu shit. Anything not fitting there needs an already existing big fanbase (like JoJo or Gundam for example have). No problems there from the business POV. They make what sells and pay the bills.

"Your sight, my delight. Will you marry me?"

Jun 12, 2015 5:45 AM

#75

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May 2012

18056

Drunk_Samurai said:
I highly doubt that it costs them that much to produce anime to charge atrocious amounts like that. A typical American cartoon with high quality animation (usually Marvel/DC show) don't even charge that much for their shows/movies on DVD.

That's because those US shows have already covered their costs by being shown on advertiser-supported television channels. Most anime generate little or no advertising revenue when broadcast in Japan. In fact the production committees themselves often buy the time from the broadcasters to carry their shows. The economics of anime are entirely different from US cartoons.

The primary purpose of anime, especially late-night anime, is to promote sales of the adapted material like manga, light novels, and games. Original anime productions are extremely rare for that reason.

Most estimates of the cost per episode I've seen place the figure at $100-300,000. A typical 13-episode series usually costs in the neighborhood of $2-3 million. Japanese disc releases typically include two or three episodes per volume, so say half a million dollars in production costs per disc.

Take Shirobako, for instance, which is an original production with no additional revenues from manga sales. The "limited edition" releases cost about $65 for three episodes plus some extra material. At that price you'd need to sell over 7,500 copies to cover that half-million dollars. Luckily for P.A. Works this show has been something of a hit, selling about twice that number of copies. Lots of shows fail to sell even 1,000 copies per volume.

Some shows with mediocre DVD/BD sales are nevertheless considered successful because of the additional manga sales they generate. Chihayafuru averaged under 3,000 copies per volume yet they still produced a second season. Why? Because manga sales went from about 40,000 per volume before the anime aired to nearly 200,000 after. The anime drove the manga to the top of the sales charts in June and September of 2012.

SeijiSenseiJun 12, 2015 5:57 AM

Jun 12, 2015 6:08 AM

#76

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Jan 2015

125

SeijiSensei said:

The primary purpose of anime, especially late-night anime, is to promote sales of the adapted material like manga, light novels, and games. Original anime productions are extremely rare for that reason.

This is only true in recent years though, which is why I think ZetaZaku is spot on. Look at how Cowboy Bebop, Gasaraki and The Big O worked out for Sunrise compared to all the Gundams they've made since then, and there's your answer.

Jun 12, 2015 6:16 AM

#77

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May 2012

18056

offmodel said:
This is only true in recent years though

How "recent" are we talking about here? Tezuka Osamu founded Tezuka Productions in 1968 to animate his works like Astro Boy. Talented directors like Iso Matsuo have left the industry because they found it so difficult to get original works produced. It took him seven years of peddling Dennou Coil around before Madhouse and the NHK finally agreed to produce it.

Production committees with manga publishers as the main players appeared in the late 1980s when the OAV market dried up.

In the younger end of the market, anime is created to drive sales of toys and games. That's been true for decades. Pokemon is the most obvious example.

SeijiSenseiJun 12, 2015 6:25 AM

Jun 12, 2015 6:35 AM

#78

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Jan 2015

125

You are just being silly, Osamu Tezuka adapted his own works in the first place because they were his own works and he largely founded the industry. The number of original anime franchises in the 80's boom period, and even in the late 90's early 2000's when the industry had a resurgence, was demonstrably larger. Just look at the number of original Sunrise franchises from 1995-2004 as compared to 2005-2014.

Jun 12, 2015 7:33 AM

#79

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Jan 2015

125

Lancehot said:

I've seen it said that Tezuka is part of the reason TV anime has always had budget problems, because he was quite happy to sell his shows at cost or as a loss leader for his comics in order to get them on TV & try to price competitors out of the business (didn't work, of course). TV anime has always been about the art of getting the most impact out of the fewest number of frames.

He's a controversial figure for sure, his detractors also love to bring up the "animation factory" model he created that led to standardization in often low budget animation practices (which ended up being Tezuka's style, of course). Personally, I love the guy.

Jun 12, 2015 8:13 AM

#80

Caboose

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Jul 2007

484

I agree with just about everything said by Zergneedsfood.

They really need a way to increase profitability since CM ad revenue seems rather low in Japan and they have to lean so heavily on DVD and merchandise sales. Honestly the easiest way i see for them to do that is to go to a digital distribution platform like steam or itunes. Doing this they could lower prices and target a larger international audience directly. They could shift from high prices targeting a minority to low prices targeting the majority.

Jun 12, 2015 8:25 AM

#81

Zippidy-Zip-Zoo

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Oct 2014

56

I'll show you something in bad shape.

*unzips*

Jun 12, 2015 8:28 AM

#82

FireEmblemIke24

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Jun 2014

12856

ichii_1 said:
"anime is dead cause I hate ecchi and moe"

This is what the op wanted to say.

moe stuff saved anime

All credit goes to Sacred.

Jun 12, 2015 8:31 AM

#83

ichii_1

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Sep 2013

22818

All the solutions being said here doesn't mean anything.
Even if they offered $5 for an anime dvd/blu ray you still wouldn't buy it.
It's the stuck up western fans that are the only ones complaining.

And didn't they already try lowering prices? but nobody ended buying anything anyway.

FireEmblemIke24 said:

ichii_1 said:
"anime is dead cause I hate ecchi and moe"

This is what the op wanted to say.

moe stuff saved anime

I know, K-on is one of the most successful anime of ALL TIME!

Jun 12, 2015 8:43 AM

#84

TsukuyomiREKT

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May 2015

5397

I think the cause is all the leading studios (Key, J.C Staff, A1 Pictures, etc.) aren't willing to try anything new. They know that the moe/shounen anime are widely popular and easy to get into. So they'll make these shows because they know it's safe. They'll copy the most popular shows in these genres to try and tap into their fanbase. Not to mention the pirating of anime, I think this is a cause.

Jun 12, 2015 8:52 AM

#85

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Mar 2011

25072

ichii_1 said:
All the solutions being said here doesn't mean anything.
Even if they offered $5 for an anime dvd/blu ray you still wouldn't buy it.
It's the stuck up western fans that are the only ones complaining.

And didn't they already try lowering prices? but nobody ended buying anything anyway.

FireEmblemIke24 said:

moe stuff saved anime

I know, K-on is one of the most successful anime of ALL TIME!

no its not you know

"If you tremble with indignation at every injustice, then you are a comrade of mine"

When the union's inspiration through the workers' blood shall run
There can be no power greater anywhere beneath the sun
Yet what force on earth is weaker than the feeble strength of one
For the Union makes us strong

Jun 12, 2015 9:22 AM

#86

IndigoBangarang

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Apr 2013

514

Caboose said:
They could shift from high prices targeting a minority to low prices targeting the majority.

I'm no expert on this,but as far as I know.. The main problem lies that this "majority" doesn't really exist.(not saying that anime fans outside of hardcore otaku don't exist,of course they do. But how many people would be willing to buy anime?) Considering how niche most anime is. If an average 1 cour anime cost around 2.4 million dollars to make and you would sell disks at 20$ you would need at least people 120 000 to buy your disks. Its a lot easier to get 8000 otakus to buy it for 300$
Don't get me wrong,I want cheaper anime too, but from the industry standpoint it's probably safer/easier to get some otakus to buy it rather than trying to appeal to a large amount of people.
Although I must say, Japan should try a little harder to make their stuff more accessible for the rest of the world.

Jun 12, 2015 9:34 AM

#87

Caboose

Offline

Jul 2007

484

IndigoBangarang said:

Caboose said:
They could shift from high prices targeting a minority to low prices targeting the majority.

I'm no expert on this,but as far as I know.. The main problem lies that this "majority" doesn't really exist.(not saying that anime fans outside of hardcore otaku don't exist,of course they do. But how many people would be willing to buy anime?) Considering how niche most anime is. If an average 1 cour anime cost around 2.4 million dollars to make and you would sell disks at 20$ you would need at least people 120 000 to buy your disks. Its a lot easier to get 8000 otakus to buy it for 300$
Don't get me wrong,I want cheaper anime too, but from the industry standpoint it's probably safer/easier to get some otakus to buy it rather than trying to appeal to a large amount of people.
Although I must say, Japan should try a little harder to make their stuff more accessible for the rest of the world.

Manga seems to have a pretty broad appeal in japan though and the 2 medium are not all the different in their target audiences. True their is a negative association with anime demographic, but isn't that partly due to the insanely high price they are willing to pay for disks?

Also digital distribution would allow them to sub (in house) and distribute their product internationally without having to use a foreign in-between that sucks up some of the profits. Sure the digital distributor would still be a middle man, but it would be based in japan and that would make ironing out rates easier and probably more beneficial for the studios.

Jun 12, 2015 10:55 AM

#88

Firelord76

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May 2009

2778

IndigoBangarang said:
Although I must say, Japan should try a little harder to make their stuff more accessible for the rest of the world.

I'm curious what you think could be done more to get anime to sell to the western audience, especially those who've never seen anime in their life, or believe it's something childish like Pokemon. Anime is very niche in Japan as it is, so I would imagine trying to sell a non-mainstream product to a foreign audience is very hard.

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Jun 12, 2015 12:03 PM

#89

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Aug 2007

7550

chinesecartoonz said:
I don't think the industry is in really bad shape tbh. I get the thing with the wages but as far as revenue they still get a lot.

Also, the pirates thing I call BS on. You can't put a price on how much is lost. If someone watches all the material for the series (all seasons, OVAs, specials,etc) then that might contribute to the impact however minuscule, but if someone watches the first half of ep1, pirated, then drops it, or even obeys the three ep rule, you can not equate that to one whole BD sale loss.

There is no such thing as a "three episode rule" about watching something pirated then dropping it.

Tomoki_Sakurai said:

Drunk_Samurai said:

Piracy has nothing to do with it.

Uh, no shit Sherlock.

"Well people.illegally download and stream constantly which isn't helping."

SeijiSensei said:

Drunk_Samurai said:
I highly doubt that it costs them that much to produce anime to charge atrocious amounts like that. A typical American cartoon with high quality animation (usually Marvel/DC show) don't even charge that much for their shows/movies on DVD.

That's because those US shows have already covered their costs by being shown on advertiser-supported television channels. Most anime generate little or no advertising revenue when broadcast in Japan. In fact the production committees themselves often buy the time from the broadcasters to carry their shows. The economics of anime are entirely different from US cartoons.

The primary purpose of anime, especially late-night anime, is to promote sales of the adapted material like manga, light novels, and games. Original anime productions are extremely rare for that reason.

Most estimates of the cost per episode I've seen place the figure at $100-300,000. A typical 13-episode series usually costs in the neighborhood of $2-3 million. Japanese disc releases typically include two or three episodes per volume, so say half a million dollars in production costs per disc.

Take Shirobako, for instance, which is an original production with no additional revenues from manga sales. The "limited edition" releases cost about $65 for three episodes plus some extra material. At that price you'd need to sell over 7,500 copies to cover that half-million dollars. Luckily for P.A. Works this show has been something of a hit, selling about twice that number of copies. Lots of shows fail to sell even 1,000 copies per volume.

Some shows with mediocre DVD/BD sales are nevertheless considered successful because of the additional manga sales they generate. Chihayafuru averaged under 3,000 copies per volume yet they still produced a second season. Why? Because manga sales went from about 40,000 per volume before the anime aired to nearly 200,000 after. The anime drove the manga to the top of the sales charts in June and September of 2012.

Blame the networks then. Obviously the American way is 100% better since it means everybody makes more money that way.

AnimeFanJoe123 said:
I think the cause is all the leading studios (Key, J.C Staff, A1 Pictures, etc.) aren't willing to try anything new. They know that the moe/shounen anime are widely popular and easy to get into. So they'll make these shows because they know it's safe. They'll copy the most popular shows in these genres to try and tap into their fanbase. Not to mention the pirating of anime, I think this is a cause.

Again, piracy has nothing to do with it.

Jun 12, 2015 3:09 PM

#90

Hulohot

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Nov 2014

1200

It was moe, moe ruined anime industry.

My Deviant Art

Jun 12, 2015 6:20 PM

#91

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May 2012

18056

Drunk_Samurai said:
Blame the networks then. Obviously the American way is 100% better since it means everybody makes more money that way.

American networks wouldn't bother with anime at all given the ratings it would draw. Even in Japan lots of late-night shows have ratings below one. That's why the production committees buy the time from the networks.

http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=ja&tl=en&u=http://www.geocities.jp/animesityouritu/2012a.html&usg=ALkJrhifbJQ_oNeZb8GTSLK-3SscU32A9Q

Jun 12, 2015 8:23 PM

#92

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Nov 2012

718

Drunk_Samurai said:
[

Tomoki_Sakurai said:

Uh, no shit Sherlock.

"Well people.illegally download and stream constantly which isn't helping."

Yea so what? Piracy is not helping the industry. Is that something you can't comprehend? I never said piracy was the reason for Japan's financial predicament. You can't even understand a fucking sentence so what are you even doing here?

Jun 12, 2015 9:18 PM

#93

Firelord76

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May 2009

2778

Tomoki_Sakurai said:
Yea so what? Piracy is not helping the industry.

Maybe, but is that the pirates' fault, or the industry's? My money is on the latter.

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Jun 12, 2015 10:17 PM

#94

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Nov 2012

718

AO968 said:

Tomoki_Sakurai said:
Yea so what? Piracy is not helping the industry.

Maybe, but is that the pirates' fault, or the industry's? My money is on the latter.

Honestly most people that Pirate wouldn't even buy it anyway. The pricing being less would for sure help, but it sadly wouldn't make a ton pf difference. I do honestly beleive that Pirating is not helping the industry, but its not destroying it either.

Jun 12, 2015 10:20 PM

#95

sai_ray

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Aug 2014

21

Piracy is a big factor, but I think it's more because anime is getting less original and creative. More and more shows popping up each season are just the same crap and it's getting harder to find anime that offer something new to the table. Just look at how many remakes shows and movies and sequels are being made today. HxH, Eva, Sailor Moon, Berserk. They're even making new dragon ball series. Hopefully something new and original comes along and rejuvenates the industry once more.

Jun 12, 2015 11:15 PM

#96

IndigoBangarang

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Apr 2013

514

AO968 said:

IndigoBangarang said:
Although I must say, Japan should try a little harder to make their stuff more accessible for the rest of the world.

I'm curious what you think could be done more to get anime to sell to the western audience, especially those who've never seen anime in their life, or believe it's something childish like Pokemon. Anime is very niche in Japan as it is, so I would imagine trying to sell a non-mainstream product to a foreign audience is very hard.

Hmm actually,I didn't mean to say that anime should become more popular in the west or that they should specifically try to make something for the west. My comment was made with last years "stop anime piracy" thing in mind,where they had an idea to shut illegal download/streaming sites down.(but of course it never happened in the end) without giving us any legal alternatives besides Crunchyroll/Funimation (which has region blocks for many people including me). So if they want less piracy and more people to buy anime,they should make some sort of legal streaming/download site for everyone.

Jun 12, 2015 11:26 PM

#97

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Mar 2011

25072

this is a pointless topic cuase its been answer by 5 people incuding me

i give my resons why i think it is not on good shape in ways it needs to be while in the way op asked the question yes its in good shape but over all the way it not in good shape outways all the good shape

a company / studio is just a construct meaningless without people and its the people who are are in bad wa.y The constructs are in a good way not the people are not for reason i have stated around 10 times in different places
arounf Mal

"If you tremble with indignation at every injustice, then you are a comrade of mine"

When the union's inspiration through the workers' blood shall run
There can be no power greater anywhere beneath the sun
Yet what force on earth is weaker than the feeble strength of one
For the Union makes us strong

Jun 13, 2015 2:52 AM

#98