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May 21, 2015 7:21 PM
Mahou☆Shoujo

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lufthansa787, you watch anime about Japanese people, with Japanese names, where the events take place in Japan. Is it really that hard to remember Japanese titles for these anime? Everyone says "Gintama" instead of "Silver Soul".

You don't ask fansubbers to rename all characters in anime to English names, do you?
May 21, 2015 7:32 PM

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Akarin said:
lufthansa787, you watch anime about Japanese people, with Japanese names, where the events take place in Japan. Is it really that hard to remember Japanese titles for these anime? Everyone says "Gintama" instead of "Silver Soul".

Or Hajime No Ippo instead of The fighting spirit
Or Usagi Drop instead of Bunny Drop
Or Nichijou instead of My Ordinary Life
Or Detective Conan instead of Case Closed,
Etc.

Let it go.
May 21, 2015 7:42 PM

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Like were all telling you. You'll get used to it.
May 22, 2015 2:24 AM

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Akarin said:
Is it really that hard to remember Japanese titles for these anime?

In some cases yes.
May 22, 2015 4:06 PM
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Dec 2014
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ugh i guess I give up. I am getting used to it but it can also be pretty annoying. Anyways permission to lock the thread granted.
May 22, 2015 4:13 PM

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Apr 2012
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The name toggle will arrive someday, have faith in your Xinil.
May 22, 2015 7:23 PM

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EratiK said:
The name toggle will arrive someday, have faith in your Xinil.
Yes we must sacrifice our first Laptops and desktops to the site God xinil. Only then will he be satisfied to give us our do's and wants. Unless he requires our most expensive technology :O

Yeah Making things optional would be great. I've read the other thread and I didn't reply there(for good reasons) so Now I will just advocate for a Toggle or option to change the names within our settings. "Convenience" should be for both parties not one.

Behold of my awesomeness~
controversial and/or sensitive topics likely devolve into the same repetitive, derogatory, abusive, and harassing comments can no longer be posted.
But my feels.
Aug 17, 2015 11:52 AM

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Hello.

I just read on the AMA summary that "there was no concrete plan" to implement this feature -- and as some of us have been waiting for two years, I'm experiencing a mix of incomprehension and disappointment at the moment.

I respect Xinil and the staff, and it's great you have new partners and everything, but somehow I can't help but feel this was more important than having streams here. My anime list.
EratiKAug 22, 2015 5:16 AM
Aug 17, 2015 12:35 PM

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Mar 2013
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Agreed and supported.
Aug 17, 2015 12:37 PM

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Oct 2007
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I like having everything with it's Japanese title, so this feature wouldn't benefit me at all and I'd just ignore it. But I can see why some people might want it.
Aug 17, 2015 12:39 PM

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Feb 2013
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Only if they let you choose which one you want for your own list I support it.
Aug 17, 2015 12:41 PM

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Ulquiorra1923 said:
Only if they let you choose which one you want for your own list I support it.

Judging from the userscript one person has made, it would be both at the same time.

Though having it optional for one, other, or both would be wise.
Aug 17, 2015 12:47 PM

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Subpyro said:
Ulquiorra1923 said:
Only if they let you choose which one you want for your own list I support it.

Judging from the userscript one person has made, it would be both at the same time.

Though having it optional for one, other, or both would be wise.


I don't think the list looks too nice with both at the same time, it takes too much space as it is.
One example with be this :
Yuusha ni Narenakatta Ore wa Shibushibu Shuushoku wo Ketsui Shimashita.

And if you add the translation:
I Couldn't Become a Hero, So I Reluctantly Decided to Get a Job.

Either one, either the other, nobody would be using both anyway.
Aug 17, 2015 1:43 PM

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Mar 2013
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Ulquiorra1923 said:
Either one, either the other, nobody would be using both anyway.

I would and am at times. As are others who use the userscript.

Better not speak for others, just a hint.
Aug 17, 2015 1:47 PM

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Aug 17, 2015 1:47 PM
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I don't like that translated titles exist in the first place (they're often incorrect or even misleading), so no. If you want to disrespect the original work, do it with your own tools. In this case, use tags.
Aug 17, 2015 1:52 PM

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vodall said:
I don't like that translated titles exist in the first place (they're often incorrect or even misleading), so no.

As of last guidelines, only official titles should be set as "English" title: http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=141101
Kineta said:
Only official English titles in the English title field

So if you see any title there that is not official, request it to be moved to synonyms, and if you know the correct official English title, submit it in this thread: http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=30866.

vodall said:
If you want to disrespect the original work, do it with your own tools. In this case, use tags.

You may also use userscripts which you can find here: http://myanimelist.net/profile/zanetu (see "Userscripts for MAL" in his "About Me")
SerhiykoAug 17, 2015 2:00 PM
Aug 17, 2015 1:56 PM

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Serhiyko said:
Possibly related: http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=490777

Not quite, that thread focuses on DB titles while this suggestion on list titles. Lists do not effect the database, with the exception of scores, but titles have nothing to do with scores.

Having it optional with all three choices would be best, as said above.
Aug 17, 2015 2:00 PM

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406
vodall said:
I don't like that translated titles exist in the first place (they're often incorrect or even misleading), so no. If you want to disrespect the original work, do it with your own tools. In this case, use tags.
I don't know whats your problem he said this would be an option. Even if you think its disrespectful (I aggree with you, but I hate more the translation of char names) all you need to do is not use it. As a feature its not bad.
Aug 17, 2015 2:02 PM

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Subpyro said:
Not quite, that thread focuses on DB titles while this suggestion on list titles. Lists do not effect the database, with the exception of scores, but titles have nothing to do with scores.

Having it optional with all three choices would be best, as said above.

Kineta said:
How would a Show English Title feature work?
- You would be able to choose to display your own list with either Official English titles (where present), or the Main Title (by default).
- It would not change the titles anywhere else on the site but on your own individual list.
- You also would not be able to pick and choose with such an option, which title you'd like to see. It's all licensed or all main. This means if you watch it subbed but it is licensed with a different English title later, you will need to re-learn the new title to find the entry on your list.
Aug 17, 2015 2:05 PM

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Personally, I'm more interested in an option for displaying "true" Japanese titles (like 銀河鉄道999). There is a userscript for that but it is a bit laggy on my rusty PC so I turn it off sometimes.
Aug 17, 2015 2:38 PM

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Interesting that you bring this up, since I was just thinking about this lately:
Kineta said:
Okay, fan translations are out. What about all official English titles where they exist?
This is a possible option, that is in use by ANN. However, for our historical, current and future userbase, this is not the best route to go for the majority. First of all, the majority of our users have always been and always will be fansub watchers. This is why we have a fansubber group database with over 20 languages. Even though we may force everyone to read synopses, reviews and interact on the forum in English, all of our users are free to watch anime in their own language, use their lists, and interact on profiles, comments and clubs in their native languages. The only reason we enforce English in the other areas of the site is for the purposes of moderation.

(from http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=490777)

Isn't this reasoning no longer applicable anymore? They obviously are not catering to the fansub watchers anymore, with the new streaming partnership and the removal of the fansub section from the anime pages.
Aug 17, 2015 2:58 PM

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Serhiyko said:
Kineta said:
How would a Show English Title feature work?
- You would be able to choose to display your own list with either Official English titles (where present), or the Main Title (by default).
- It would not change the titles anywhere else on the site but on your own individual list.
- You also would not be able to pick and choose with such an option, which title you'd like to see. It's all licensed or all main. This means if you watch it subbed but it is licensed with a different English title later, you will need to re-learn the new title to find the entry on your list.

That quote is still off-topic.

We are talking about an English title and a Japanese title. What you have quoted is an English title versus the official English title, as far as I can see.

Basically, summing together the current English one with Japanese (either kanji or romaji) is wanted.
Aug 17, 2015 3:15 PM

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Subpyro said:
We are talking about an English title and a Japanese title. What you have quoted is an English title versus the official English title, as far as I can see.

You are the only one who is talking about it here
Aug 17, 2015 3:39 PM

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Kineta said:
Okay, fan translations are out. What about all official English titles where they exist?
This is a possible option, that is in use by ANN. However, for our historical, current and future userbase, this is not the best route to go for the majority. First of all, the majority of our users have always been and always will be fansub watchers. This is why we have a fansubber group database with over 20 languages. Even though we may force everyone to read synopses, reviews and interact on the forum in English, all of our users are free to watch anime in their own language, use their lists, and interact on profiles, comments and clubs in their native languages. The only reason we enforce English in the other areas of the site is for the purposes of moderation.

As a non native English speaker myself, I think this reasonning is kind of backwards because when you consider making things accessible to your userbase, and consider the fact that if there is one international language nowadays it's English, then it's clear that English titles are more readable than Japanese ones, regardless of the native language.*

Let's take the classic example Sen to Chihiro no kamikakushi vs Spirited Away. It's evident one is more appealing to a majority of users than the other. In a way, even if he uses subtitles, the fact that the user is a native or a non native English speaker is irrelevant, what matters is that Japanese makes people struggle (except learners of course). Which is why intuitively English titles were present in the past.

*And for the record, I'm not questionning the relevance of having Japanese titles in the DB, that's the logical way to go about it, but it's surprising after years of negative feedback the development team is still not wiling to view the toggle issue seriously.
EratiKAug 17, 2015 3:55 PM
Aug 17, 2015 3:47 PM

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Their reasoning on this issue has always been poor, but I gave up on hoping for them to change their mind a long time ago. The fact that that topic has been locked for years is enough evidence that as far as MAL is concerned: case closed.
Aug 17, 2015 5:06 PM

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Kuromii said:
I like having everything with it's Japanese title, so this feature wouldn't benefit me at all and I'd just ignore it. But I can see why some people might want it.
Same, I prefer the romaji myself.
"Your taste is shit cause you like what I hate. Believe me I have 1000 cartoons that I rated with less than 5."


Aug 17, 2015 5:07 PM

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I don't like it but I agree that the site could benefit from this
Aug 17, 2015 5:20 PM

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But what should it say with entries that are Korean or Chinese or have only an English name?
⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⣸⠋⠀⠀⠀⡄⠀⠀⡔⠀⢀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⡘⡰⠁⠘⡀⠀⠀⢠⠀⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
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⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⢀⣠⠴⢑⡨⠊⡀⠤⠚⢉⣴⣾⣿⡿⣾⣿⡇⠀⠹⣻⠛⠉⠉⢀⠠⠺⠀⠀⡀⢄⣴⣾⣧⣞⠀⡜⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠐⠒⣉⠠⠄⡂⠅⠊⠁⠀⠀⣴⣿⣿⣿⣿⣻⣿⣿⡇⠀⠀⢠⣷⣮⡍⡠⠔⢉⡇⡠⠋⠁⠀⣿⣿⣿⣿⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀
Aug 17, 2015 7:57 PM

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Yes, but this is MAL, so no matter what it will be wrong (or more likely, never happen). This is why I just put the english title in my tags.
Aug 17, 2015 9:27 PM

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Serhiyko said:
You are the only one who is talking about it here

Gah, it seems I turned it around all together.
Aug 17, 2015 10:48 PM

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Possibly related:
http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1385636
http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1320429
http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1094101
http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=688093

traed said:
But what should it say with entries that are Korean or Chinese or have only an English name?

Possibly related:
http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=294105
http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=270112

kuchitsu said:
Personally, I'm more interested in an option for displaying "true" Japanese titles (like 銀河鉄道999). There is a userscript for that but it is a bit laggy on my rusty PC so I turn it off sometimes.

Possibly related: http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=386581
btw, you can choose English, Japanese (hieroglyphs or transcription) or whatever else language you want on AniDB for anime titles (which affects both anime entries and your list), episode titles, creator and character names, song names, audio and subtitle languages. And all of that since before this site even existed

Subpyro said:
Judging from the userscript one person has made, it would be both at the same time.

Here's the userscript in question: http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=566695
SerhiykoAug 17, 2015 11:05 PM
Aug 19, 2015 2:59 PM

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3017
You mean a button which allows you to show your list in Japanese?

You realise that this is an English language website, right?
Losing an Argument online?

Simply post a webpage full of links, and refuse to continue until your opponents have read every last one of them!

WORKS EVERY TIME!

"I was debating with someone who believed in climate change, when he linked me to a graph showing evidence to that effect. So I sent him a 10k word essay on the origins of Conservatism, and escaped with my dignity intact."
"THANK YOU VERBOSE WEBPAGES OF QUESTIONABLE RELEVANCE!"


Aug 19, 2015 4:31 PM

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7734
AnnoKano said:
You mean a button which allows you to show your list in Japanese?

You realise that this is an English language website, right?

He means a button which allows you to show your list in English

You realise that this is an English language website, right?
Aug 21, 2015 4:19 AM

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406
AnnoKano said:
You mean a button which allows you to show your list in Japanese?

You realise that this is an English language website, right?
What the website other parts have to do with the list? Also last I checked, this website was MYanimelist from this I think I can do anything with MY list and it doesn't have to concern anyone.
Aug 21, 2015 7:36 AM

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793
vodall said:
I don't like that translated titles exist in the first place (they're often incorrect or even misleading), so no. If you want to disrespect the original work, do it with your own tools. In this case, use tags.


EratiK said:
Kineta said:
Okay, fan translations are out. What about all official English titles where they exist?
This is a possible option, that is in use by ANN. However, for our historical, current and future userbase, this is not the best route to go for the majority. First of all, the majority of our users have always been and always will be fansub watchers. This is why we have a fansubber group database with over 20 languages. Even though we may force everyone to read synopses, reviews and interact on the forum in English, all of our users are free to watch anime in their own language, use their lists, and interact on profiles, comments and clubs in their native languages. The only reason we enforce English in the other areas of the site is for the purposes of moderation.

As a non native English speaker myself, I think this reasonning is kind of backwards because when you consider making things accessible to your userbase, and consider the fact that if there is one international language nowadays it's English, then it's clear that English titles are more readable than Japanese ones, regardless of the native language.*

Let's take the classic example Sen to Chihiro no kamikakushi vs Spirited Away. It's evident one is more appealing to a majority of users than the other. In a way, even if he uses subtitles, the fact that the user is a native or a non native English speaker is irrelevant, what matters is that Japanese makes people struggle (except learners of course). Which is why intuitively English titles were present in the past.

*And for the record, I'm not questionning the relevance of having Japanese titles in the DB, that's the logical way to go about it, but it's surprising after years of negative feedback the development team is still not wiling to view the toggle issue seriously.


Hasn't MAL always been kinda strange for naming, in general? For example, they have left one exception: Fullmetal Alchemist and Brotherhood are referred to as such on the site, despite their original name being Hagane no Renkinjutsushi and Hagane no Renkinjutsushi: Fullmetal Alchemist respectively. But no one calls them by Hagane no Renkinjutsushi, so it doesn't pose a problem.

But, as OP said, who really calls it Sen to Chihiro no Kamikakushi vs Spirited Away? Who calls it Ookami to Koushinryou vs Spice and Wolf? Most don't. (If you do, that's OK. )

To this end, I support this toggle. It's definitely a good feature for users to be able to choose what they want for their anime list. While this may result in some unwanted changes since it's a whole list change, it's a good feature to have.
Aug 21, 2015 8:15 AM

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SNaG21 said:
Hasn't MAL always been kinda strange for naming, in general? For example, they have left one exception: Fullmetal Alchemist and Brotherhood are referred to as such on the site, despite their original name being Hagane no Renkinjutsushi and Hagane no Renkinjutsushi: Fullmetal Alchemist respectively. But no one calls them by Hagane no Renkinjutsushi, so it doesn't pose a problem.
Yes it was, they used most common name.
Now they decided to switch to english names. But suprise! They don't have balls to change all the names because it will become ridiculous and unusable, so they changed only half (and it did anyway).

English toggle won't change anything, Sen-to-whatever will become Spirited Away, but Hajime no Ippo will become a fucking "Fighting Spirit".

What we need is a "Japanese/English/Common (aka how it was)" toggle that will affect naming on all pages of the site, not just list.
Aug 21, 2015 8:28 AM

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vivan said:
SNaG21 said:
Hasn't MAL always been kinda strange for naming, in general? For example, they have left one exception: Fullmetal Alchemist and Brotherhood are referred to as such on the site, despite their original name being Hagane no Renkinjutsushi and Hagane no Renkinjutsushi: Fullmetal Alchemist respectively. But no one calls them by Hagane no Renkinjutsushi, so it doesn't pose a problem.
Yes it was, they used most common name.
Now they decided to switch to english names. But suprise! They don't have balls to change all the names because it will become ridiculous and unusable, so they changed only half (and it did anyway).

English toggle won't change anything, Sen-to-whatever will become Spirited Away, but Hajime no Ippo will become a fucking "Fighting Spirit".

What we need is a "Japanese/English/Common (aka how it was)" toggle that will affect naming on all pages of the site, not just list.


That's what I thought, but is Ookami to Koushinryou really the most common name? Or Sen to Chihiro no Kamikakushi? I understand a case for Shingeki no Kyojin, but several others are dicey. And what sort of metric is used to determine such commonality?

Sure, it leads to some undesirables, like Fighting Spirit vs Hajime no Ippo or A Bride's Story vs Otoyomegatari. Ideally, a user-enabled series by series toggle would be ideal so I can change my Spice and Wolf but keep my Hajime no Ippo, but a user-enabled blanket toggle would be an admirable first step that could possibly pave way to a better toggle.

(Incidentally, since MAL now has a dedicated team of programmers and such (from what I understand; it seems that was a huge benefit of the Daisuki buyout), hopefully the lists will grow to have more features and maybe become a tad easier for non-CSS users like myself to edit).
Aug 21, 2015 8:52 AM

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SNaG21 said:
That's what I thought, but is Ookami to Koushinryou really the most common name? Or Sen to Chihiro no Kamikakushi? I understand a case for Shingeki no Kyojin, but several others are dicey. And what sort of metric is used to determine such commonality?
It was Spice and Wolf and Spirited Away in 2012 and changing them caused an uproar.
There's no metric, people were fighting over selected names all the time. That's why they decided to switch to an more objective solution... but failed.
Aug 21, 2015 9:53 AM

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793
vivan said:
SNaG21 said:
That's what I thought, but is Ookami to Koushinryou really the most common name? Or Sen to Chihiro no Kamikakushi? I understand a case for Shingeki no Kyojin, but several others are dicey. And what sort of metric is used to determine such commonality?
It was Spice and Wolf and Spirited Away in 2012 and changing them caused an uproar.
There's no metric, people were fighting over selected names all the time. That's why they decided to switch to an more objective solution... but failed.


Classic MAL community, never able to be pleased.
Aug 21, 2015 10:18 AM

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Just use Taiga and do this: (for now)

And maybe ask erengy to make theme/layout feature on his tool.

Don't be surprise if MAL doesn't make this suggested feature because even Gakkougurashi! wasn't changed to Gakkou Gurashi! even though it's already the official title.
Haters always gonna hate.
Aug 21, 2015 11:00 AM

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Yes absolutely; especially for the old Anime like Ninja Scroll or Record of Lodoss War. I knew those with the English title and I'm so used to denoting them by the English translated name that is hard to associate with the Japanese names. For current Anime, I pretty much use the Japanese names of the series.
Aug 21, 2015 11:17 AM

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Rayzer said:
Don't be surprise if MAL doesn't make this suggested feature because even Gakkougurashi! wasn't changed to Gakkou Gurashi! even though it's already the official title.

You can request the change in this thread: http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=30866
Aug 21, 2015 11:31 AM

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Serhiyko said:

You can request the change in this thread: http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=30866

http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=30866&show=8750#msg41686228

And I already tried to submit an edit a multiple times but wasn't approved nor denied. ("Edit Anime Information")
Haters always gonna hate.
Aug 21, 2015 11:55 AM

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Sorry then. But it just means that anime mods do a crappy job, what does it have to do with implementing features?

Rayzer said:
And I already tried to submit an edit a multiple times but wasn't approved nor denied. ("Edit Anime Information")

You can't request a name change through "Edit Anime Information" menu
Aug 21, 2015 12:02 PM

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vivan said:
What we need is a "Japanese/English/Common (aka how it was)" toggle that will affect naming on all pages of the site, not just list.
This is an altogether different suggestion which I'm against (among other things because defining what is common is a relative to certain audience in a certain time and place and can't be used as a universal reference).

Like said above, people start protesting ever since some English titles became their Japanese equivalent in 2013. Again, I'm not against DB consistency, but this has nothing to do with the user side of things (whose default language is English). If you take away something that was practical of course people will expect to have it back in some form. And there's no problem on anime pages because synonyms are readily available. The problem is on the list.

Thinking some more, ideally the toggle could switch between synonyms for every entry but that would be a nightmare to program. But tagging the DB so it has an "original title" and a "prominent English synonym" definitely sounds doable.
Aug 21, 2015 12:30 PM

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Serhiyko said:

What does it have to do with implementing features?

You quoted it so I clarified it.

Serhiyko said:

You can't request a name change through "Edit Anime Information" menu

My bad. I was trying to make DB change req. (post) for Gangsta. and when I copied it, I ended up pasting it here.
Haters always gonna hate.
Aug 21, 2015 12:43 PM

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EratiK said:
This is an altogether different suggestion which I'm against (among other things because defining what is common is a relative to certain audience in a certain time and place and can't be used as a universal reference).
That nice in theory and all, but in reality common name is obvious for 95% titles, and people are fighting only over 5%. But those 95% are not all English or Japanese - it's a mix.

EratiK said:
And there's no problem on anime pages because synonyms are readily available. The problem is on the list.
There's a lot of other pages that have names that are not anime pages and lists: panel (friend updates, etc.), profiles (favs, etc.), top anime pages, search, recommendations, reviews, forum, related anime, linked anime in blogs and clubs... Just switching it in one place will only increase confusion.

EratiK said:
prominent English synonym
wait, but you just said that it's subjective and you're against it. Who is going to decide that it's prominent enough? If he can decide it - how is it even different from being a most common title?
Aug 21, 2015 12:54 PM

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Rayzer said:
Serhiyko said:

What does it have to do with implementing features?

You quoted it so I clarified it.

I meant this:
Rayzer said:
Don't be surprise if MAL doesn't make this suggested feature because even Gakkougurashi! wasn't changed to Gakkou Gurashi! even though it's already the official title.

What does one have to do with the other? The ones who are responsible for titles and other data are mods, and the ones who are responsible for implementing features are devs. They are not correlated whatsoever
SerhiykoAug 21, 2015 12:58 PM
Aug 21, 2015 1:01 PM

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Serhiyko said:

What does one have to do with the other? The ones who are responsible for titles and other data are mods, and the ones who implement features are devs

I meant they are too stubborn.
They prefer Japanese over English or use whatever they want.

EDIT: Oh look what I had found?
http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=490777
Haters always gonna hate.
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