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barabara said: In this show, it is strongly implied that the outcomes are not equal, one is definitely good and the other one is bad, represented by smiling mask and frowning mask. I agree with this. Symbolism is a thing, you know. If the void was not supposed to be perceived as a negative outcome, then they would not use an evil looking mask to symbolize it. Logically, that would not make sense. Whether or not each route is truly negative is a different story. That part varies based on perspective. However, very rarely would anyone pursue the direction of the void, regardless of circumstance. Let's say you had a completely horrible life. Nothing worked out for you and you died an unfair death. It's likely that you'd wish to live again, in a different life. Let's say you had a great life, and everything went well for you. You died happy. Even then you would want to live again and hopefully experience great things once more. Even if you're reincarnated as a human, insect, bird, or hell, even a barnacle, life is life. Living is perceived as a good thing. |
| Wow the OP is all sorts of epic!!! Loved the episode too and what a treat for the eyes!!!!!!!!! |
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| Wow, this was incredible. I loved it. My heart was racing the entire time wondering who was gonna win and what was gonna happen to both. O_O This totally reminds me of an anime version of the movie series "SAW" which is one of my favorite movie series ever. I guess the only difference is that they're already dead here and I guess the bartender decides where they go based on their actions during the game or something? Cause if she won and she went to the void and he went into the reincarnation...well we'll find out soon enough! Can't wait for the next episode. |
Satire said: barabara said: In this show, it is strongly implied that the outcomes are not equal, one is definitely good and the other one is bad, represented by smiling mask and frowning mask. I agree with this. Symbolism is a thing, you know. If the void was not supposed to be perceived as a negative outcome, then they would not use an evil looking mask to symbolize it. Logically, that would not make sense. Whether or not each route is truly negative is a different story. That part varies based on perspective. However, very rarely would anyone pursue the direction of the void, regardless of circumstance. Let's say you had a completely horrible life. Nothing worked out for you and you died an unfair death. It's likely that you'd wish to live again, in a different life. Let's say you had a great life, and everything went well for you. You died happy. Even then you would want to live again and hopefully experience great things once more. Even if you're reincarnated as a human, insect, bird, or hell, even a barnacle, life is life. Living is perceived as a good thing. 1) It's like you're deliberately refusing to accept the fact that the Hanya/demon mask has nothing to do with the Void or Hell, and that the Deigan/white mask represents a person becoming a monster. 2) You saying "life is life" is severely oversimplifying it. As is saying that JUST because life is seen as a good thing, in general, that also applies specifically to Shinto and Buddhism....because it doesn't. Reincarnation is a negative, or lesser, outcome in Buddhism when compared to the Void and Heaven. Also, life as a bird, insect, barnacle and human are all severely different things and experiences, with several aspects and circumstances to consider. How could anyone even compare all those lifestyles in a general sense as "life is life"? |
| This is a really nice contrast to everything else airing this season. The psychological aspexts of yhe show are really intense. The OP was kind of put there, but cool none the less |
Be like this seal. It is a happy seal. ~Review Guidelines~ | ~Recommendation Guidelines~ | ~Mafia Society~ |
| This is good. This is good. Holy shit. Hoooooly shiiiiiit. That was so intense. I swear to God. The plot twists were amazing. High expectations for this one. That was an absolutely EPIC opening to this anime. |
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| The anime blew my expectation halfway through the episode when I was almost convinced that that there was nothing more than just some lame excuse for a psychological anime. I can be sure that this anime just might save winter season anime. |
Makaze_no_Moujuu said: 1) It's like you're deliberately refusing to accept the fact that the Hanya/demon mask has nothing to do with the Void or Hell, and that the Deigan/white mask represents a person becoming a monster. 2) You saying "life is life" is severely oversimplifying it. As is saying that JUST because life is seen as a good thing, in general, that also applies specifically to Shinto and Buddhism....because it doesn't. Reincarnation is a negative, or lesser, outcome in Buddhism when compared to the Void and Heaven. Also, life as a bird, insect, barnacle and human are all severely different things and experiences, with several aspects and circumstances to consider. How could anyone even compare all those lifestyles in a general sense as "life is life"? 1. Did you even watch the epilogue for episode one? It's like you're deliberately refusing to accept the fact that it's said where each of them went as the cameras pan up to the masks. In case you didn't know, things that are done in shows can have different meanings and interpretations from reality. This isn't some kind of non-fiction work, where the white mask must symbolize becoming a monster from it's real world meaning. The white mask, just from appearances does not look like an evil mask. The real, historic story behind the masks may be as you say, but they are apparently not used that way in Death Billiards/Death Parade. By your logic, the Fate series is completely full of shit because King Arthur was a man, whereas Sabre, who is King Arthur in the series, is a woman. Makaze_no_Moujuu said: 2) You saying "life is life" is severely oversimplifying it. As is saying that JUST because life is seen as a good thing, in general, that also applies specifically to Shinto and Buddhism....because it doesn't. Reincarnation is a negative, or lesser, outcome in Buddhism when compared to the Void and Heaven. Of course I'm oversimplifying it. I'm not going to write an essay on why being alive is a great thing. The idea of being a living being, regardless of whatever being you may be, is generally perceived as good. The alternative to being a living being is being dead. Nobody really has a desire to be dead, since all living organisms have biological instincts for the desire to survive and pass down their genetics. Do you think it's desirable to have no conscious awareness of self? Reincarnation being a negative, lesser outcome compared to Heaven I could easily agree with. The concept of heaven is basically an afterlife utopia. The void, by definition, is emptiness. There is no religion that is completely reasonable. If Shinto and Buddhism say that reincarnation is worse than the void, I'd be inclined to disagree. |
| The problem with reincarnation is that all your memory gets wiped. Even your genetics are wiped. What are we if not our memories and dispositions? If you think about it, there's really no difference between reincarnation and void. This anime brings me back to my high school philosophical days. |
BiddingGortonio said: The problem with reincarnation is that all your memory gets wiped. Even your genetics are wiped. What are we if not our memories and dispositions? If you think about it, there's really no difference between reincarnation and void. It's not so much about your past life. Even if you're reincarnated, which would mean no memories of your past life, at least you still exist. The void is literally nothing. You have no consciousness; you just disappear completely. Is existence worse than being nothing? |
| If i would have ask to describe this episode in one world i would have say: Disturbing, so many plot twist in just 1 episode. I was cheering the women at start thinking the man just losing it then at the end..... 7/10 for now if they keep it this way i will sure to rank it up. |
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| Awesome, that bitch got what she deserved, lol. Well, not entirely, she got off easy, now that I think about it. Well, maybe not, she is going to the garbage pile. Either way, the dude should have had complementary bonus darts awarded to him. |
babymilo91 said: I believe so because she was sent to the void he said. Even I am not 100% on this myself.This was a good episode. Okay just to clarify, the woman really was having an affair right? |
| This got an anime, hell yeah I was quite fond of that OVa. Lovely OP plus Elsa , I am sold. What an execution... To think there would be 12 more episodes like this, this is going to be awesome. 10/10, finally something truly epic in a dark way. Been waiting for this for so long. |
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Satire said: Makaze_no_Moujuu said: 1) It's like you're deliberately refusing to accept the fact that the Hanya/demon mask has nothing to do with the Void or Hell, and that the Deigan/white mask represents a person becoming a monster. 2) You saying "life is life" is severely oversimplifying it. As is saying that JUST because life is seen as a good thing, in general, that also applies specifically to Shinto and Buddhism....because it doesn't. Reincarnation is a negative, or lesser, outcome in Buddhism when compared to the Void and Heaven. Also, life as a bird, insect, barnacle and human are all severely different things and experiences, with several aspects and circumstances to consider. How could anyone even compare all those lifestyles in a general sense as "life is life"? 1. Did you even watch the epilogue for episode one? It's like you're deliberately refusing to accept the fact that it's said where each of them went as the cameras pan up to the masks. In case you didn't know, things that are done in shows can have different meanings and interpretations from reality. This isn't some kind of non-fiction work, where the white mask must symbolize becoming a monster from it's real world meaning. The white mask, just from appearances does not look like an evil mask. The real, historic story behind the masks may be as you say, but they are apparently not used that way in Death Billiards/Death Parade. By your logic, the Fate series is completely full of shit because King Arthur was a man, whereas Sabre, who is King Arthur in the series, is a woman. Makaze_no_Moujuu said: 2) You saying "life is life" is severely oversimplifying it. As is saying that JUST because life is seen as a good thing, in general, that also applies specifically to Shinto and Buddhism....because it doesn't. Reincarnation is a negative, or lesser, outcome in Buddhism when compared to the Void and Heaven. Of course I'm oversimplifying it. I'm not going to write an essay on why being alive is a great thing. The idea of being a living being, regardless of whatever being you may be, is generally perceived as good. The alternative to being a living being is being dead. Nobody really has a desire to be dead, since all living organisms have biological instincts for the desire to survive and pass down their genetics. Do you think it's desirable to have no conscious awareness of self? Reincarnation being a negative, lesser outcome compared to Heaven I could easily agree with. The concept of heaven is basically an afterlife utopia. The void, by definition, is emptiness. There is no religion that is completely reasonable. If Shinto and Buddhism say that reincarnation is worse than the void, I'd be inclined to disagree. 1) Wow, so basically you are taking the white, non-demon looking mask at face value? That's the irony of the Deigan; it looks unsuspecting, but it represents humanity changing into something less humane. This is a psychological anime, that CLEARLY implores a lot of misdirection and omission to deceive the audience; nothing is to be taken at face value. If it was as simple as the demon mask = negative destination, and the human mask = positive destination, then why pick masks that so blatantly have NOTHING to do with Heaven, Hell, Void and Reincarnation? Generic masks would've sufficed. You could could come at me and say that maybe the Deigan and Hanya masks are just to make us over analyze, but the show is the one that brought up four different outcomes, and switches the masks when two people arrive and exit. Also, the show chooses to depict the characters a certain way that happens to fall in line with the descriptions of those masks. In the OVA, the guy who cheated on his significant other, and then attacked the old man during the game, got the Deigan mask. If you're saying that the wife getting the Hanya mask = bad, because she cheated, than that doesn't fit what we've already seen or what you're trying to argue. In BOTH the OVA and the anime, the person who both perpetrated the failing of his living relationship (and their life), and attacked the other person in the bar with them got the Deigan mask, and both characters at least fit the barest of criteria: becoming/behaving like a monster via attacking, or even attempting to kill the other person. Those with the Hanya mask were BOTH people that accepted their fates, but held regret over a not being able to spend their last moments with the one they loved: for the old man, it was not being able to eat pickles with his wife again, like he expressed, and for Machiko, it was the Takashi she was with before the marriage. Neither expressed any natural ingenuity in their character, or any held any malice, or grudge, like those who held the Deigan mask on exit. 2) Here, I guess we can agree to disagree because this about different religions and how different people of different religions, or just people with different viewpoints, see other beliefs. I'm just going by the obvious Shinto and Buddhist influences that show abundantly clear in this anime. IMO, life is not just life, and seeing life to just be a general positive thing, is not only oversimplifying, but also just straight naive. I'm certain that North Koreans don't see their life a positive experience, same goes for women in the Middle East, people who fail to escape Cuban, people born in poverty all over the world, people forced to marry people they don't love, or even know at times, etc; going back Not saying that not everyone in the world, in those circumstances, can't feel happy about what they got, but to just assume life is great because it's being alive is naive to me. It's furthered by the fact that the prospect of reincarnation means being brought back as non-humans, like animals, bugs, bacteria, plants and even demons, or apparitions, like hungry ghosts. The severe majority of people given the option of coming back as a bug, the thing many of us humans step on subconsciously, because a lot of us don't even consider their lives anything of consequence, would choose not to be revived as that. We can bring up the fact that we won't be the same person, or have the same mind, when revived, but that doesn't mean that this new being we become will live a happy, or positive life. Reincarnation is seen as good thing, because it brings up the prospect of being able to live life the way we'd want to, or not make the same mistakes, but that only assuming that we get revived again as a human, and even then it depends on the circumstances, the society, the family, etc we'd be reborn in. That doesn't even include all the other things we could be brought back in, and all the aspects and circumstances that those lives take into account. Regardless, let's hoe this series eventually shows us what the destinations had in store for at least some of these characters. |
Makaze_no_MoujuuJan 13, 2015 9:58 AM
| Forgot to post this lol. First things first... That was even better than I expected it to be. Wow. I can't help but praise every aspect of this episode. It was done right and in the best possible way. My only concern is that I'd rather they leave us off with a more ambiguous ending rather than the Bartender telling us viewers who was sent to which Heaven/Hell/Reincarnation/Void/etc. because it kind of makes it less interesting. As for his wife, I wish we would have gotten a more clearer understanding on why she was cheating because I felt like that was out of nowhere in the last minute. Btw, excellent music and beautiful visuals. So gud, Madhouse! |
Satire said: It's not so much about your past life. Even if you're reincarnated, which would mean no memories of your past life, at least you still exist. The void is literally nothing. You have no consciousness; you just disappear completely. Is existence worse than being nothing? Bro, your existence is literally your memories. Your consciousness is your memories. |
BiddingGortonio said: Satire said: It's not so much about your past life. Even if you're reincarnated, which would mean no memories of your past life, at least you still exist. The void is literally nothing. You have no consciousness; you just disappear completely. Is existence worse than being nothing? Bro, your existence is literally your memories. Your consciousness is your memories. Exactly. How can YOU still exist if YOU don't have YOUR memories and experiences? It's no longer the old you, or you at all, it's a new person. This applies even more so, if reincarnated as an organism without the sense of self, and higher thinking, you had earlier as a human that made you the person you were. "You have no consciousness; you just disappear completely. Is existence worse than being nothing?" Either way you (individualism) kinda disappear. It's just that in one you've reached enlightenment* and in the other you're existence can/is literally replaced by another, and that new existence gets a shot at enlightenment (not you). *= "According to Nagarjuna, Sunyata is not nothingness, but it is truth or absolute reality of things or suchness (tathata) of the universe. Sunyata-emptiness is not being as distinguished from beings, nor is it a transcendent God distinguished from this world, nor is it a nothingness distinguished from the somethingness of ordinary life. It is not to be found outside oneself, nor it is to be found inside oneself." |
Makaze_no_MoujuuJan 13, 2015 12:27 PM
| Nakai Kazuya voiced Takashi...I knew it! |
mayukachan said: That's the best thing of this anime, it lets us think for ourselves. Decim's reaction reaction makes me believe she was supposed to reincarnate.As for his wife, I wish we would have gotten a more clearer understanding on why she was cheating because I felt like that was out of nowhere in the last minute. |
FragOutFire said: Why am I a Berserk fan? All I ever experience is pain. We are in the eclipse and Miura has sacrificed us |
PriestSlayer said: mayukachan said: That's the best thing of this anime, it lets us think for ourselves. Decim's reaction reaction makes me believe she was supposed to reincarnate.As for his wife, I wish we would have gotten a more clearer understanding on why she was cheating because I felt like that was out of nowhere in the last minute. It's too bad that we found out who went to which place in the end, though. Billiards left it ambiguous. |
| The first episode made me remeber that film "the shinning". I don't even know if a comparison between a movie and an anime is legit. Anyway, I liked it. |
| "Me ni wa me wo, ha ni wa ha wo, aku ni wa aku wo." |
mayukachan said: PriestSlayer said: That's the best thing of this anime, it lets us think for ourselves. Decim's reaction reaction makes me believe she was supposed to reincarnate. It's too bad that we found out who went to which place in the end, though. Billiards left it ambiguous. But we haven't found out which place was good or bad, the void or the reincarnation? which arises another mystery. I even doubt the bar or the game is the deciding factor for their admission into hell or heaven. I agree Death Billiards is slightly better than this episode.. |
| It was good. Really, I will watch it for sure. |
| Dub = fake crap. Always. |
mayukachan said: Forgot to post this lol. First things first... That was even better than I expected it to be. Wow. I can't help but praise every aspect of this episode. It was done right and in the best possible way. My only concern is that I'd rather they leave us off with a more ambiguous ending rather than the Bartender telling us viewers who was sent to which Heaven/Hell/Reincarnation/Void/etc. because it kind of makes it less interesting. As for his wife, I wish we would have gotten a more clearer understanding on why she was cheating because I felt like that was out of nowhere in the last minute. Btw, excellent music and beautiful visuals. So gud, Madhouse! The general consensus is that the woman was lying at the end, there are a lot of reasons to believe that. Check this thread: http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1340543&show=0 |
| An interesting concept to say the least. I'm hyped. |
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Vanisher said: The general consensus is that the woman was lying at the end, there are a lot of reasons to believe that. Yes, that's what I thought as well, but the ending (her going to void, him reincarnated) made me think otherwise. But thanks for the thread link! Glad it's still ambiguous~ |
| So the death game is merely a psychological stimulant to oust the truth. The actual game itself bears no relevance to the overall outcome of who is sent to heaven and who is sent to hell. Decim makes his judgment not on who wins or loses but the confessions they make in the process. As a result, the cheating wife was sent to "虚無" (nothingness; void) while the husband, despite losing the game, was allowed "転生" (reincarnation). Exemplary. 9/10 |
| I think in death billards the girl was the true winner.. I think in the end she lied to her husband about cheating on him because she couldn't stand him behaving the way he was from the guilt of killing his child. Reincarnation isn't necessarily a good thing it means you haven't reached enlightenment and have made mistakes/ earthly regrets so you repeat the cycle until you do. The void means she has reached enlightenment it represents calmness, awareness release, meditative dwelling. The void is a release.. please don't look at this in terms of western good and bad/ heaven and hell standards.. Stop using the western-centralized meaning of reincarnation.. It is probably not the definition intended by the creators. that concept about reincarnation as a repetitive cycle of not reaching enlightenment is important in various eastern religions so it would make sense that it would be his punishment. |
grumpytoastJan 13, 2015 2:32 PM
| Interesting.... she won yet she still went to Hell right? Was the games then only to determine who deserved based on merit and not on who won the game? |
yngtadpole said: Interesting.... she won yet she still went to Hell right? Was the games then only to determine who deserved based on merit and not on who won the game? void =/= hell |
Makaze_no_Moujuu said: 1) Wow, so basically you are taking the white, non-demon looking mask at face value? That's the irony of the Deigan; it looks unsuspecting, but it represents humanity changing into something less humane. This is a psychological anime, that CLEARLY implores a lot of misdirection and omission to deceive the audience; nothing is to be taken at face value. If it was as simple as the demon mask = negative destination, and the human mask = positive destination, then why pick masks that so blatantly have NOTHING to do with Heaven, Hell, Void and Reincarnation? Generic masks would've sufficed. You could could come at me and say that maybe the Deigan and Hanya masks are just to make us over analyze, but the show is the one that brought up four different outcomes, and switches the masks when two people arrive and exit. Also, the show chooses to depict the characters a certain way that happens to fall in line with the descriptions of those masks. In the OVA, the guy who cheated on his significant other, and then attacked the old man during the game, got the Deigan mask. If you're saying that the wife getting the Hanya mask = bad, because she cheated, than that doesn't fit what we've already seen or what you're trying to argue. In BOTH the OVA and the anime, the person who both perpetrated the failing of his living relationship (and their life), and attacked the other person in the bar with them got the Deigan mask, and both characters at least fit the barest of criteria: becoming/behaving like a monster via attacking, or even attempting to kill the other person. Those with the Hanya mask were BOTH people that accepted their fates, but held regret over a not being able to spend their last moments with the one they loved: for the old man, it was not being able to eat pickles with his wife again, like he expressed, and for Machiko, it was the Takashi she was with before the marriage. Neither expressed any natural ingenuity in their character, or any held any malice, or grudge, like those who held the Deigan mask on exit. 2) Here, I guess we can agree to disagree because this about different religions and how different people of different religions, or just people with different viewpoints, see other beliefs. I'm just going by the obvious Shinto and Buddhist influences that show abundantly clear in this anime. IMO, life is not just life, and seeing life to just be a general positive thing, is not only oversimplifying, but also just straight naive. I'm certain that North Koreans don't see their life a positive experience, same goes for women in the Middle East, people who fail to escape Cuban, people born in poverty all over the world, people forced to marry people they don't love, or even know at times, etc; going back Not saying that not everyone in the world, in those circumstances, can't feel happy about what they got, but to just assume life is great because it's being alive is naive to me. It's furthered by the fact that the prospect of reincarnation means being brought back as non-humans, like animals, bugs, bacteria, plants and even demons, or apparitions, like hungry ghosts. The severe majority of people given the option of coming back as a bug, the thing many of us humans step on subconsciously, because a lot of us don't even consider their lives anything of consequence, would choose not to be revived as that. We can bring up the fact that we won't be the same person, or have the same mind, when revived, but that doesn't mean that this new being we become will live a happy, or positive life. Reincarnation is seen as good thing, because it brings up the prospect of being able to live life the way we'd want to, or not make the same mistakes, but that only assuming that we get revived again as a human, and even then it depends on the circumstances, the society, the family, etc we'd be reborn in. That doesn't even include all the other things we could be brought back in, and all the aspects and circumstances that those lives take into account. Regardless, let's hoe this series eventually shows us what the destinations had in store for at least some of these characters. "Generic masks would've sufficed." Yes, they could have and I think using masks at face value would have been a better decision than using noh masks from a cinematic standpoint. It's subjective to believe that the husband in this series was becoming a monster. It varies on how you, as an individual, interpret the term 'monster'. I don't think he, or the young man from Billiards, particularly did anything to be qualified as monstrous. By definition of what the Hannya mask symbolizes ("The expression of this mask is a fusion of jealousy, grudge, sorrow, and grief of women.", it sounds as if it could fit the husband as well. Let's take, for example, the wife's outburst near the end of episode one. Wouldn't her sudden twist of personality, at face value, also qualify to be fitting for the Deigan mask? There's no substantial evidence to imply that Decim knows their actual past. If anything, she's the one who's actually changing into 'monster', contrary to the husband who has felt jealous and held a grudge for quite some time. From my perspective, assuming that you actually are correct about the mask ordeal, the outcomes of both Billiards and episode one are still up in the air. There have only been two episodes so far. That said, it is really damn difficult to argue that the void is a better outcome than reincarnation. As such, it doesn't make sense to reincarnate the worse person over the better person. One could still argue that giving the worse person a second chance to be a good person could be the reasoning, but that's a difficult stance to take since it relies solely on forgiveness, essentially. Personally, I, and likely many others, would disagree with that ideology. If anything, I would ideally want to know the opinion of the target Japanese audience on Billiards and this episode. Since I can't read moon, I doubt that's going to happen. 2. Let's agree to disagree then. |
| I still think this anime is more about human nature rather than who "won" or "lost" or who is a better person. The OVA left the answer more ambiguous to the viewer as to who truly went to hell. I really hope they don't continue to flat out tell us, or at least appear to tell us, who went where as it would actually make the show much worse in my opinion. Leaving it at least somewhat ambiguous opens it up to a much greater discussion and would leave me far more satisfied in drawing my own conclusions and would make secondary viewing more enjoyable. |
| "Hey! I'm totally an adult! I bitch and whine, lie through my teeth, and do things that are unfair." |
PC93anime said: I still think this anime is more about human nature rather than who "won" or "lost" or who is a better person. The OVA left the answer more ambiguous to the viewer as to who truly went to hell. I really hope they don't continue to flat out tell us, or at least appear to tell us, who went where as it would actually make the show much worse in my opinion. Leaving it at least somewhat ambiguous opens it up to a much greater discussion and would leave me far more satisfied in drawing my own conclusions and would make secondary viewing more enjoyable. they dont really need to say it as the lifts have a clear sign above them to where they lead to. They would have to cut out the lift scene completely to avoid that. And yeah, you are right, its more about human nature than a game, and im loving it. What i reallly liked in the first episode is that the guy still reincarnated after he tried to attack his whore wife. It seemed that bartender or god had an understanding that this would be a pretty natural reaction unless you are a saint. |
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| Interesting, only off putting about this one was the hilariously over the top facial expressions and saliva production. |
Foxford said: PC93anime said: I still think this anime is more about human nature rather than who "won" or "lost" or who is a better person. The OVA left the answer more ambiguous to the viewer as to who truly went to hell. I really hope they don't continue to flat out tell us, or at least appear to tell us, who went where as it would actually make the show much worse in my opinion. Leaving it at least somewhat ambiguous opens it up to a much greater discussion and would leave me far more satisfied in drawing my own conclusions and would make secondary viewing more enjoyable. they dont really need to say it as the lifts have a clear sign above them to where they lead to. They would have to cut out the lift scene completely to avoid that. And yeah, you are right, its more about human nature than a game, and im loving it. What i reallly liked in the first episode is that the guy still reincarnated after he tried to attack his whore wife. It seemed that bartender or god had an understanding that this would be a pretty natural reaction unless you are a saint. It still pretty ambiguous as it's left up to the viewer to decide whether or not reincarnation or the void is the better option... but if you look at in terms of the eastern context of reincarnation and not the western.. reincarnation is a punishment and the void is the better option. |
| Wow what sinful natures. |
| I don't there is a discussion to be had in which got punished and which didn't. She lied, she cheated on him and was at least at first a complete gold digger that used him and abused him for his money. Void= bad. And all you have to do to almost HAVE to come to these conclusion is agree with me that the doctor was happy that he was gonna be a father and that due to that he meant to miss his 6th dart! Explanation of deduction: First of all. Let's get it clear that christian ideology is the main thing driving the show. Words like heaven, hell and god were used (at least in the subs) which are ideas not present in Buddhism and I'm very close to certain are not present in Shinto. I'm not saying this religions have or don't have influence in the show, just saying that the driving one do to choice of language is Christianity. Using these 3 religions because as far as I'm aware they are the three main Japanese religions. I want to propose the idea that the darts hitting or missing also depends on the ideas and thoughts of the thrower and that these ideas can affect weather the dart hits or misses after it's thrown. 1. We can hear the doctor's thoughts. He was genuinely happy that he was gonna be a father. He hit the first one as a test. Missed 4 in a row willingly. Threw the 5th with unknown intentions. Now here comes the important part. Before he throws the 6th one we can see that he is genuinely happy because we can hear his thoughts and we know he is happy. He loves the idea of being a father and he is very glad. Here I make the assumption that he wants to miss because WE KNOW HOW HE FEELS AND HE FEELS VERY HAPPY AND LOVING TOWARDS HIS WIFE AT THE INSTANT OF THE THROW but the dart still hits. Why? Because he doubted his wife AFTER he threw. Remember they are already dead, magical things can happen and this argument rest on the idea that they are happening! If you concede this point then the following happens. Ask yourself the question, why then did the wife land all those shots? Because she simply wanted to win. If she wanted to lose/miss she would missed because her ideas and thoughts would of influenced the dice. 2. Her flash back showed a man smoking and with a different hair cut. The doctor was never shown smoking in any of his flash backs or any other flash back. 3. Her elevator has the face of a Japanese demon on top of it. The doctor has a white mask. 4. For those talking about the white guy's surprised faced and using that as an argument towards the women's innocence. Your argument has a fallacy, you're assuming the cause. He could just as well have been surprised about the fact that someone like her acting so hard came out and said the truth. Which is the actual reason he was surprised since she did cheat on him. Conclusion: She was a liar and a player. She deserved nothing but the fear of not knowing what would become of her. Though I cannot claim that she deserves punishment. The void sounds like she is being erased, I like that idea. Edit: I had a lot of fun coming to my conclusions and ideas after watching the show, so exciting having to think about something! 5/5 loved it. I also think the guy was beautiful, he got as angry as he got because he really really loved her. He was so attached to her that he could get that mad despite being a doctor. To me that speaks of how pure was and how deserving he was of heaven/reincarnation or w.e. I do think by the end of it she came clean because of love and when she cam out and said the truth it was the truth so the child was indeed not the doctors. |
starmaker032Jan 14, 2015 2:54 PM
| So winning the game really has no significance. It just a character measuring tactic or more like an evaluation of truth etc. Arcanix said: So, did you even see the episode? How can you be doubtful if she was cheating? Because it was presented in a way that her confession in the end was ambiguous. |
| Interesting. Well planned out and executed well. Not sure if I like the concept or the weird eyed guy. That lot seem a bit oddly put together. It was a nice twist, especially since it gave the whole situation and let you decide which story to believe. |
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| might be one of the good anime in this season, as only few really caught my eye. dark and psychological type anime, which I like it a lot. I thought Machiko will be sent to heaven but I was wrong, she's really having affair I guess. At least Takashi gets a reincarnation. But sometimes reincarnation means you still have things you need to ...."fix" it? Both OP and ED are really nice to hear. |
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Silvertongue00 said: pure guessing, first two aren't from me: - She break his heart i.imgur.com/g8eaxmE.jpg - Soiled relationship i.imgur.com/g8eaxmE.jpg - Pure coincidence she 'hit' double ring on eye - Pure coincidence he 'hit' double ring on intestines I think her story about "Machida Yuuki" is true i.imgur.com/Pcg6h7f.jpg That's actually Machida Yuuki with Kanji. Now i'm confused... |
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