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L-Ryoshi said: One thing I don't understand though. Considering that it seems like the island fortress is like a jail for Norma's, and that the Mana users had representatives on that island, why is it that Mr. Evil-nii-sama couldn't just order them to release Ange into their custody, why did they need to engineer it so Ange HAD to escape to save her sister? I mean, if Sylvia was so cross with her sister already, why not just ship her ass back to their kingdom for the trial? According to ep8, the kingdom of Rozenblum administrates Arzenal, so Misurugi has no authority to do that. When Momoka arrived in ep6, the island's officers mentioned that Arzenal and the existence of Dragons was a secret, so its possible that Rozenblum is the only royal family that positively knows Ange is there. xytech said: This episode was painfully annoying to watch. I'm unable to comprehend a racism so intense that putting a Norma tag on someone makes you hate them, even if you've known them all your life and loved them. I've actually been really enjoying the show thus far, but this episode really made me want to lower the score by a couple points. L-Ryoshi said: One thing I don't understand though. Considering that it seems like the island fortress is like a jail for Norma's, and that the Mana users had representatives on that island, why is it that Mr. Evil-nii-sama couldn't just order them to release Ange into their custody, why did they need to engineer it so Ange HAD to escape to save her sister? I mean, if Sylvia was so cross with her sister already, why not just ship her ass back to their kingdom for the trial? Ange didn't commit any other crime than being Norma, and if every Norma got executed there would be no disposable pawns left to fight the Dragons. They probably have a very strict no-exception policy going on so not even a royalty can negotiate. It's not much different from discrimination against people with high criminal coefficients or dark hue values in Psycho Pass, even if they are innocent. The idea is to regulate the Norma as they show up so they can't reproduce and pass down their mutation through the population. |
DeicideVDec 1, 2014 8:24 AM
| Typing on an ipad is like driving carpentry nails with a sledgehammer. |
| #TEAM DRAGONS The Norma should team up with the dragons and slaughter those humans and repopulate the world. |
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| This ep is pretty brutal in the depressingness, and I love it! It really shows off the twistedness of their society. Yet I can't bring myself to hate the girls (Sylvia, Ange's friend, Hilda's mom) for acting the way they did, because remember that Ange acted the same way in episode one. In fact, remember that Ange (or rather Angelise) told the mother of the baby who got taken away in episode one to "forget about this child and incident and have a new child", which is exactly what Hilda's mother did. I look forward to seeing Ange destroy this society, or at least their way of thinking. I actually felt bad for Hilda, despite hating her guts before. It's a bit of shame that a lot of people didn't stick around because of all the fanservice previously. (and omg there's hardly any fanservice this episode!) |
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| Already knew the sister was going to attack Ange and Hilda's mother bitch |
animefan8800 said: I still don't know why I'm watching this I mean...it's sooooo over the top. What does it say when I'm now rooting for the mom and wheelchair bound sister to die painful deaths? I mean Momoka's been the only legit likable character so far. Must EVERY character be an over the top monster? I get that they've been trained to view norma as monsters but it's so unrealistic Most humans are over the top monsters. Honestly, people seem to hate on this show because it`s popular to do so. It not brilliant but not SAO/Mars of Destruction level bad. I am enjoying it and actually interested in what´s going to happen next. |
| Badass Ange! When they titiled this ep "hometown of betrayal," they weren't kidding. I love the episode preview! hahaha! |
"Fortress Maximus has come himself. Okay! Then I shall get Fortress Maximus to fight me, huh huh huh!" |
| I feel so bad for Ange and Hilda, having their hopes crushed the way they were. I hope Ange kills hulio at some point in the anime, that will be justice served. |
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| both got betrayed.. I hate 'humans' :D.. |
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| such an underrated series. holy shit this episode... man crossing my fingers for hilda. ange has plot armor but hilda talk about a completely rotten world. |
| Damn, this show from being a complete mess to actully having a really good plot? man this epsiode had me catching feeling, i just want every mana having persion to just get eating by dragons already, i cant wait till that prince get shot in the face, since i know its coming. Now on to Hilda, having to to endor 11 year of hell just have her mom overwrite her existence and telling her she shouldnt have been born, if she only knew the truth about what Norma really did to protect their way of life and the stuggle they have to endor. Ange, bought weapons, stole a ship, crossed the sea and traveled god know how many miles, just to have her sister pull a knife on her and blame Ange for all her problems? and she shouldn't have been born either? yeah this episode pretty much had me feeling like this "Some Men Just Want to Watch the World Burn" i would like to see this world burn. Ange has learned her lesson and grew to understand her mistakes but these other people can just suck it. rant over. good episode overall and the message was very clear, over the top a little but very clear |
| This episode was so painful to watch, normally i would watch it as soon as it sub but it took me until now to actually see it. all this discrimination and racism these are episodes that i do not really want to watch and next weeks seems to be like a continuation with this one. However i am glad i stuck trough it. It will be worth the wait. That brother of hers will get his just deserts in no time and even everyone else who went against them, when the dragon army reaches the cities and burn them down as shown in the intro's. i am Actually rooting for the opposite team here hehe.. Well the real flaw in this show is the bad introduction into the service and it's use of over the top fanservice. If they done the execution right just as in this episode from the beginning. it would not have so much hate as it does now. Let's see how this thing plays out from here. These next few episodes are going to be the hardest to watch as it is as i call it the transition phase. where characters get the beat down . it is afterword they get back up and grow stronger and comeback in full fury. |
ichii_1 said: #TEAM DRAGONS The Norma should team up with the dragons and slaughter those humans and repopulate the world. Um, so you basically want it to turn into interspecies hentai? :P |
No wonder, dragon with no head must be retarded. |
| This episode was painful to watch... the whole Hilda's Mother scene was quite agonizing.... it felt over blown but jesus did it depress me.... This episode had a severe lack of Salia.... and it really disappointed me :( |
| This shows rollercoaster mood and concepts are giving me mad Code Geass vibes. I love it. |
| From what i can tell the only difference between Mana users and Norma is the fact that Norma can't use Mana. And tho i have several theories i don't understand why the hatred the fear agains't Norma is so great. As i mentioned in other episodes this hatred and fear can only be created by years of propaganda it's like the mana users are deliberately taught to hate and fear them. That's the only thing that can explain the fierce hatred and fear towards them. What's strange is the way how even those that grew up with Ange like her sister and schoolmates fear her like she is some kind of monster, seeing as the grew up together they should know better. If people never came in contact with her it's somewhat more understandable but again it's to severe for that. Intense propaganda, brainwashing is the only way this unnatural hatred can be created. All the cases i can think of in our post in which a mass population had intense hate towards another ethnic group were all created and results of years of propaganda. A good example of this was Nazi Germany in which hatred towards minor ethnic groups started years before the war started, we are talking 10 to 20 years here. And even then there where still a lot of people which didn't show any hatred towards those minor ethnic groups and there where still people that could think for themselves. But here we have a mother who adored her daughter and a sister who adored her sibling turning completely against them because they are part of another ethnic group. This hatred is just unnatural. And the question that i keep wondering about is. Why do they hate the Norma's so much or better said why is this hatred against the Norma created so much? From what i can tell they do not form a threat to mana users. All i can think of is that they might be hard to contain seeing as those mana shields don't work on them but then again prison bars should be fine with that. Another reason of which i can think of is to use them as soldiers against those Dragons and that no one would care if they get killed but then again there is no need to create such hatred against them just for that. |
Aversa said: ... Norma destroy mana, and mana is the basis of their utopia. That's reason enough for discrimination. |
| Sieg Zeon! |
QuattroVaginas said: Technically it's just their energy source, sure everything runs on it but ultimately what makes the so called Utopia isn't the energy source but the people.Aversa said: ... Norma destroy mana, and mana is the basis of their utopia. That's reason enough for discrimination. They could create the same kind of Utopia with electricity or gasoline in theory. And so far the only many i have seen Norma destroy where the shields that where aimed at them however everything else worked perfectly fine around them. Just look at how Momoko used her Mana around Ange all the time she even operated vehicles without a problem at all. And many people didn't even notice that Ange was a Norma until they where told. |
Aversa said: Technically it's just their energy source, sure everything runs on it but ultimately what makes the so called Utopia isn't the energy source but the people. They could create the same kind of Utopia with electricity or gasoline in theory. And so far the only many i have seen Norma destroy where the shields that where aimed at them however everything else worked perfectly fine around them. Just look at how Momoko used her Mana around Ange all the time she even operated vehicles without a problem at all. And many people didn't even notice that Ange was a Norma until they where told. The thing is, that in society of Cross Ange the most important value is convenience. And Normas, with their ability to destroy mana, may be threat to comfortable life. |
No wonder, dragon with no head must be retarded. |
jakkubus said: That still doesn't really explain the unnatural hate we are seeing here.Aversa said: Technically it's just their energy source, sure everything runs on it but ultimately what makes the so called Utopia isn't the energy source but the people. They could create the same kind of Utopia with electricity or gasoline in theory. And so far the only many i have seen Norma destroy where the shields that where aimed at them however everything else worked perfectly fine around them. Just look at how Momoko used her Mana around Ange all the time she even operated vehicles without a problem at all. And many people didn't even notice that Ange was a Norma until they where told. The thing is, that in society of Cross Ange the most important value is convenience. And Normas, with their ability to destroy mana, may be threat to comfortable life. It could be that there was a war with the Norma not to long ago, if we look at the situation with Germany a lot of hatred was because of the previous war WW1 in which Germany lost a lot of rights. In particular the treaty of Versailles was very bad for the Germans and contributed a lot in hate against other nations and WW2. However in this case the Norma seems to have lost seeing as they are removed from society which means the hate should not be as bad as it is. That's if there was a war between them, we know there was a war from Tusk's memories but we do not know where it was and who or what was fighting each other. We do know he is in his teens so the war was pretty recent but it could also have been a attack against a random city. Another theory which i can come up with is that the hatred against Norma is created to have a common enemy. People usually work better together and appreciate each other more if the have a common enemy which also makes a peaceful society work better. On the other hand it's also easier to control people in this society by being the Big Brother and protecting the people from this so called threat. People listen better when they have something to fear, but then again they could just tell the truth about the Dragons which would probably achieve the same effect. |
| I like how the discussion is going and i like to contribute what i think maybe another reason why, of course plenty of holes to poke through it. Well I had a few thoughts and one of them is that what if the dragon they recovered is used in creating the mana society they live in now? I maybe way off the mark, or this theory has popped up before, but it can't be mere luck that they are possibly taking dragons back with them in cased in ice. Now what IF they use the dragons flesh to allow them to use mana? Think of the big dragons when they fire off something notice an interesting magical circle. What if the normas special ability to break mana is something far more sinister? Like what if over time a norma that absorb too much mana turns into a dragon, or they're living beacons causing them to home in on them? Of course the thing about dragons been a secret could mean that cities or even nations were destroyed and they simply cover it up and say it was the normas that are responsible. What do you guys think? |
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Aversa said: ... If you mean the literal disgust displayed toward Norma, there is evidently propaganda, but I think for the most part it's just hyperbolized for melodrama. I mean, why did the cops beat the shit out of Hilda, when she showed no signs of resistance? But my point was Norma do pose a threat, at least from the viewpoint of the people, as we don't really know the extent of Norma's mana-breaking abilities. There may or may not be underlying reasons for this hatred, but as far as the general public is concerned, the ongoing propaganda is reason enough for their discrimination. |
| Sieg Zeon! |
| Am I supposed to feel sorry for Angelise? From what I remember, she was just the same towards norma back in 1st episode. Remember the scene with that mother whose child was taken? Yeah, she can rot for all I care. Maybe for Hilda then? Ehm, she was complete douche and asshole and now it's all because she was pretending and all is good? Yeah, not buying that either. She can rot as well. Frankly, there's not a single character in the whole show I like. Maybe the male guy, the one from the island. And that's just because he barely had any screen time and I can imagine in my mind his past, guess what happened and all. When he gets more development I'll probably hate him as well... |
Never_ending said: I agree with you on the Dragon corpse that was taken away and i actually mentioned in a earlier thread.We don't know where Mana comes from of how it's created so it might be taken from the dragons. And like you mentioned the big dragons have used magic several times, the last dragon we saw even used magic to restrain the girls on the ground. I actually find you second theory rather interesting. One of the things i have been wondering about it why do the dragons keep appearing near the island where the Norma are stationed. And with your theory it does make sense that the keep appearing there. However it was mentioned during the time that Ange was in the classroom with the young girls that the Norma where used to prevent the dragons from reaching countries and cities. Another thing is if Norma attract these dragons why would they keep them alive it's clear that with the severe discrimination against them they aren't even treated as Humans and judging from the treatment in cities it looks like they have no Human rights either so it would be simpler to execute them. There might be a reason for keeping them alive tho. There might other reasons why the keep appearing near the island. One of them could be because Norma are most effective against fighting against these dragons so the dragons want to take out the Norma first. Another one might be that they can only appear in that area for certain reasons. The first one is for a tactical reason however tactically seen it would probably be better to appear near at a random location near a country or city seeing as the Norma are all stationed on together on one or maybe a few other locations. It would take them a while to reach the country or city the dragons are attacking. QuattroVaginas said: I agree that it's taken out of proportion by i keep wondering why the general public is manipulated so badly about Norma's.As i mentioned earlier in this post i think Norma's don't even have Human rights as you mentioned the arrest of Hilda was outrages they attacked her with 5-6 guys and beat her to the ground like she would put up a fierce fight. But as you mentioned she showed no sign of resistance at all. So why use so much excess violence to capture her? And they even started kicking her when she was already lying on the ground unable to defend herself. If the police would so something like that here in Europe the officers in questions would be in deep trouble and will probably be charged for abuse and use of excess force. While here it looks like they get away with no trouble at all from the looks of it. |
| well I didn't see that coming (Ange getting cut with a knife by her sister) another instance of reusing animation from the same episode as a flashback 4/5 I dunno for sure, but I like this episode. Maybe cuz of the after the fact feels from Ange and Hilda's misfortunes. |
| I don't consider myself a good judge. trying not to be an obnoxious otaku |
| Japan seems to love religious references in anime. At first glance, I'd say the apple was just a representation of her childhood. She loved apple pie before being sent away, and the apples were there for her when she got home. Given that it's Japan though, I'd say the apple calls back to the one Eve and Adam ate. It gave them knowledge and shit, just how when Hilda took a bite of the apple, her life fell even more apart and she learned how awful her mother is. If I remember correctly, eating the apple was also the first sin and allowed them to die. Getting even more nit-picky over this, it can be said that eating the apple was Hilda's first sin, implying that she was reborn from what she was before. Sort of like how Ange cut her hair and became new Ange, Hilda eating the apple makes new Hilda. That, or a serious death flag. |
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| Back the hard side of this anime, I honestly did not expect a dirty trick like the little sister. The narrative focuses on Hilda, who knows if it will become an important character in the near future, promoted this episode since the previous episodes were not as exciting and sad. Although I was surprised by the reaction of Sylvia against Ange, honestly it is very sad to be betrayed by a mother of a sister. Drawings that do not excel in quality but have not dropped to the levels seen before. The story in a sense it was exciting during the disputed Ange who saves his sister, because it was almost "telegraphed" ambushed by his brother, but fortunately the end of the story made it all of a good standard. acrimonious said: A show of this quality deserves a full 52 ep run. I agree ! |
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Ferax said: Ventris said: Cross Ange continues to be repugnant and cheesy on every possible level. yet you still watch it damn they really, really hate normas Shades of Elen Lied. This episode used even more cheap, manipulative ploys to depress the viewers than usual. |
| Its very sad on that happened to them. A sad moment indeed. |
| Wow..what an episode...I can say that,for me,this was the most.."decent" episode. There were some intense feels in here ;-; The most painful thing in the world is,IMO, to hear your mom(or someone VERY important to you) say "You should have never existed" ...that`s just too cruel! Anyway,i`m waiting for the next episode,hoping to see some action and feels ^w^ |
This is where I`d put my signature...If i had one. |
| I'd like to say that this was the best episode in this series so far. When they cut out the shitty mecha scenes and forced lesbian fanservice, this show becomes pretty good. I really liked the parallels between Hilda and Ange and how their most loved ones reject/betrayed them because they were seen as a threat to society. |
| wow :( those people are horrible. TO think that your own family that has known you your whole life (up until the point when they were taken), they would think of you as a monster. Like really? Just because you find out they can't use mana, they are Norma, and that makes them monsters. Even if they are "taught" that Norma are monsters, if you find out that your sister/daughter is one, you would think, well she may be "Norma", but she is definitely not a monster! :/ :/ iono With the OP I'm thinking the other Norma are going to either rescue them, or the dragons are going to attack the city so the other norma will have to come and fight them there, which is where they pick up Ange and Hilda. Poor girls though. I got mad for them for how they were treated. By their own families and friends. Only the maid/friend was the only nice and logical one out of all of them. |
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| Forgot to add, My heart clenched a bit when... They wasted that delicious apple pie. |
| Wow definitely the best episode so far!! Both Hilda and Ange thought they could at least go back to their old lives, but it seems reality is just cruel and unfortunately they had to face it like this. At least this is a lesson to them, that humans are fucking hypocrites. None of this heartless bastards had ever face hardship, hell, death like Ange and Hilda did. Just because they want to have a perfect life doesn't mean they had to ignore anything that might disrupt it. That stupid Syliva tried to killed Ange. I really hope Ange get's her revenge and kill pretty much all of the corrupt sick bastards at the royal empire. And wow Hilda just took a beating and never resisted. Still that stupid mother of hers must real be proud now that she abandoned her daughter. I really hope Karma comes back to these assholes. Guess we'll have to wait for Tusk to save the day. And yes, this series needs a 50 episode count. I hope for Season 2 like they did with Gundam 00. Can't wait for the next episode!! |
| What an emotional episode wow. is hilda dead? also nice to see island guy whatever his name is again. looks like he'll do some kinda of crazy rescue or something. |
| Best episode so far. |
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| funny to see they all screamed "She's a Norma....!!!???" then fainted, wonder what kind propaganda they did to the public looks like their great escape lasted only 1 episode... |
| So sad. One of the best episodes so far :) |
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| Wanted Hilda to kick her mom in the head. Wanted Ange to shoot her sister in the head. Is all of society indoctrinated to fear norma just so that the norma have nowhere else to go except to fight the dragons? |
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| This is more like what I expected when the series was first announced. No fanservice, just awesome action scenes with character development, and build up. Even cute little Sylvia is full of hate...It's going to be interesting to see how they get out of this one... Also, I'm liking how Hilda is becoming more likeable. Her scenes were just sad in this episode... |
| That was hard, more on Hilda actually, Ange's part was rather entertaining to watch. Stupid policemen kicked her like a bunch of gangster kids, it's just unfair. |
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