Jomei said: See, terms are still confused. That's not even what you say it is. Evangelion does not deconstruct; it simply subverts all the tropes of a typical robot show (A cruel rather than benevolent father bestowing technology that can trigger the world's destruction rather than just being a tool for salvation, a protagonist who's timid and reluctant instead of hot-blooded and driven, female characters who are either submissive to the point of creepiness or tsundere toward the MC instead of lovey dovey and pure, robot combat as traumatic rather than a process of growth and triumph, etc.) These aren't contradictions present in most super robot shows. They're simply inversions of the norm. I'm having difficulty understanding your post. Super robot shows always have teen characters having a good time, for example. As much as them having a bad time is also subvertion, how is acknowledging that teens have issues, and that combat is typically a very traumatic experience not point out a contradiction in them usually having fun, thus effectively deconstructing the genre? |
ExtraZero said: Does anyone in this thread even knows what "deconstruction" means? lol And no, don't even think about using TVTropes on me. Tell us if you know. |
| http://myanimelist.net/anime/6594/Katanagatari There you go, it's already made. Now to be fair, while Katanagatari isn't a deconstruction per say, it still breaks down the aspects of shounen, and presents them nicely. Check it out. |
| I am an internet persona! |
| ...What would a deconstruction of a psychological anime be like? |
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| Thread cleaned Removed spam and trolling. Don't go off topic or quote chain. If you have a quote tower, either put it in spoilers or remove the old quotes. |
tsudecimo said: Fai said: it takes shounen genre premise, however averts the usual tropes via realistic and unorthodox methods - there's no such thing as "power levels" and most of action involves actual tactics and strategy used. How did it put power levels into reality? it simply just didn't have main characters who powered up in some way. i just wanna mention that in Full metal, the main character gets the ability to do Alchemy w/o a circle in the first episode. that's pretty much a power up |
AzuStar said: tsudecimo said: Fai said: it takes shounen genre premise, however averts the usual tropes via realistic and unorthodox methods - there's no such thing as "power levels" and most of action involves actual tactics and strategy used. How did it put power levels into reality? it simply just didn't have main characters who powered up in some way. i just wanna mention that in Full metal, the main character gets the ability to do Alchemy w/o a circle in the first episode. that's pretty much a power up And philosopher stones can count as power ups too. |
| "Let Justice Be Done!" My Theme Fight again, fight again for justice! |
Rashkolnikov said: How EVA and Madoka are deconstruction? I'm not entirely sure what deconstruction really is. And I think EVA was amazing, but not the first or something like that. I'll search a little bit. well, Madoka isn't really a deconstruction. just grittier then the average Magical girl show. |
AzuStar said: Rashkolnikov said: How EVA and Madoka are deconstruction? I'm not entirely sure what deconstruction really is. And I think EVA was amazing, but not the first or something like that. I'll search a little bit. well, Madoka isn't really a deconstruction. just grittier then the average Magical girl show. And there are a lot of people with the conception that "grittier= better". That is the major appeal of "deconstructions". |
| "Let Justice Be Done!" My Theme Fight again, fight again for justice! |
RedRoseFring said: AzuStar said: Rashkolnikov said: How EVA and Madoka are deconstruction? I'm not entirely sure what deconstruction really is. And I think EVA was amazing, but not the first or something like that. I'll search a little bit. well, Madoka isn't really a deconstruction. just grittier then the average Magical girl show. And there are a lot of people with the conception that "grittier= better". That is the major appeal of "deconstructions". That's not true. What you're saying doesn't do justice to either NGE or Madoka. |
daedroth4 said: RedRoseFring said: AzuStar said: Rashkolnikov said: How EVA and Madoka are deconstruction? I'm not entirely sure what deconstruction really is. And I think EVA was amazing, but not the first or something like that. I'll search a little bit. well, Madoka isn't really a deconstruction. just grittier then the average Magical girl show. And there are a lot of people with the conception that "grittier= better". That is the major appeal of "deconstructions". That's not true. What you're saying doesn't do justice to either NGE or Madoka. well that is obvious... since we are stating what Madoka and NGE are not... (btw what is NGE) |
AzuStar said: NGE is Neon Genesis Evangelion. Mod Edit: Quote tower fixed |
TyrelMay 9, 2014 9:39 PM
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i should get to watching that. |
daedroth4 said: There's obviously more to both series, but there are many who praise the series simply for those points. Mod Edit: Quote tower fixed |
TyrelMay 9, 2014 9:39 PM
| "Let Justice Be Done!" My Theme Fight again, fight again for justice! |
RedRoseFring said: daedroth4 said: There's obviously more to both series, but there are many who praise the series simply for those points. Mod Edit: Quote tower fixed I've also seen both series receive criticism for very shallow reasons. I'm pretty sure this is true for most shows in general. I'm a little bit surprised by that post though. There was a thread about something like this awhile back and I thought your belief was that all opinions were equal when it comes to judging anime, although I guess I don't really object if you changed your mind. |
| To deconstruct a battle shonen all you need to do is axe the battles. Now you can't call it a battle shounen anymore. |
| Aliis si licet, tibi non licet. |
| Simple. Just use WW2 from a Japanese perspective (at least a typical one - Yamamoto's pessimism would ruin it), it plays out for the people involved exactly like a stereotypical Shonen - - until Guadalcanal. hehe. |
| Anyone who doesn't hate anime hasn't watched enough anime. - Anonymous |
Gekishin said: Akame ga Kill No. |
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Gekishin said: SolBlade said: I need to say something like this to resurrect the thread.No.  |
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Gekishin said: SolBlade said: I need to say something like this to resurrect the thread.No. Gotcha. The reason why I wouldn't consider Akame a deconstruction is because while it is darker/edgier, it doesn't subvert tropes or anything from the little I've seen so far (first 2 episodes). Remember, being a deconstruction =/= darker/ediger. Though maybe it'll start to deconstruct tropes later on so you could be right. |
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ScazoN said: no h8Gekishin said: I need to say something like this to resurrect the thread. |
| that one that is more realistic than most battle shonens. |
Gekishin said: SolBlade said: I need to say something like this to resurrect the thread.No. It doesn't work if you only say the name of the show. Proper trollbait requires more than that. Forgetfulness said: Fate/stay night (visual novel) Fate/Zero Emiya Kiritsugu is in some ways a deconstruction of a typical shounen protagonist. |
| Every time someone uses Madoka as the epitome of what "a deconstruction" looks like I try not to laugh, especially concerning the magical girl genre. The only thing I can think of is if this battle shounen went on without its protagonist, as in, once they die they stay dead, mostly because this genre is known for those friendship speeches/fighting with the power of nakama. If it was able to measure how influential this protag was on the rest of the cast and the consequences of whatever it is that was left behind? Maybe "there is no chosen one/everyone is the chosen one" kind of thing. SNK was almost there before it became disappointing again. Now if SNK/HxH and Utena had a lovechild, that would be the day. |
| Deconstruction is, again, just a fancy word to label stuff that aren't cliché as the shit you like. |
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| From my understanding, a deconstruction in terms of entertainment means applying real life logic to a fictionalized story/setting. So a deconstruction of a shounen could be something like this: -The setting/premise revolves around actual political/social issues, but it can also be incorporated into a fantasy world. -The main character is an attractive female but isn't overly sexualized like in Fairy Tail or Medaka Box. -She's quite strong due to years of training and doesn't rely on her male allies to defend her, but she's also allowed to be vulnerable at times. -She has normal human feelings and is romantically attracted to a certain male character in the series, who doesn't necessarily return those feelings. -There's an actual sense of danger in the show, and the main character doesn't always win fights...sometimes she ends up in the hospital due to severe injuries, or ends up in prison for inflicting too much collateral damage. -The main character seriously considers joining a certain villain at some point because it would benefit her more, or the villains aren't necessarily "evil", they just have a different way of doing things. -The rest of the story is about the main character fighting against her old friends, who weren't really that close to her in the first place. The reason she was able to leave so easily in the first place was because the entire "nakama" group was getting older and drifting apart. -The main character isn't necessarily "redeemed" at the end, but the two sides just come to an uncomfortable truce. -The ending shows her as an old woman still with some regrets over the past but otherwise happy with how her life turned out. |
Adair said: From my understanding, a deconstruction in terms of entertainment means applying real life logic to a fictionalized story/setting. So a deconstruction of a shounen could be something like this: -The setting/premise revolves around actual political/social issues, but it can also be incorporated into a fantasy world. -The main character is an attractive female but isn't overly sexualized like in Fairy Tail or Medaka Box. -She's quite strong due to years of training and doesn't rely on her male allies to defend her, but she's also allowed to be vulnerable at times. -She has normal human feelings and is romantically attracted to a certain male character in the series, who doesn't necessarily return those feelings. -There's an actual sense of danger in the show, and the main character doesn't always win fights...sometimes she ends up in the hospital due to severe injuries, or ends up in prison for inflicting too much collateral damage. -The main character seriously considers joining a certain villain at some point because it would benefit her more, or the villains aren't necessarily "evil", they just have a different way of doing things. -The rest of the story is about the main character fighting against her old friends, who weren't really that close to her in the first place. The reason she was able to leave so easily in the first place was because the entire "nakama" group was getting older and drifting apart. -The main character isn't necessarily "redeemed" at the end, but the two sides just come to an uncomfortable truce. -The ending shows her as an old woman still with some regrets over the past but otherwise happy with how her life turned out. Thanks for summarizing the hunger games. Kind of. |
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judals said: Adair said: From my understanding, a deconstruction in terms of entertainment means applying real life logic to a fictionalized story/setting. So a deconstruction of a shounen could be something like this: -The setting/premise revolves around actual political/social issues, but it can also be incorporated into a fantasy world. -The main character is an attractive female but isn't overly sexualized like in Fairy Tail or Medaka Box. -She's quite strong due to years of training and doesn't rely on her male allies to defend her, but she's also allowed to be vulnerable at times. -She has normal human feelings and is romantically attracted to a certain male character in the series, who doesn't necessarily return those feelings. -There's an actual sense of danger in the show, and the main character doesn't always win fights...sometimes she ends up in the hospital due to severe injuries, or ends up in prison for inflicting too much collateral damage. -The main character seriously considers joining a certain villain at some point because it would benefit her more, or the villains aren't necessarily "evil", they just have a different way of doing things. -The rest of the story is about the main character fighting against her old friends, who weren't really that close to her in the first place. The reason she was able to leave so easily in the first place was because the entire "nakama" group was getting older and drifting apart. -The main character isn't necessarily "redeemed" at the end, but the two sides just come to an uncomfortable truce. -The ending shows her as an old woman still with some regrets over the past but otherwise happy with how her life turned out. Thanks for summarizing the hunger games. Kind of. That was seriously not my intention, but now that I look over it... xD I don't even like the Hunger Games though. |
Heredity said: so many people in this thread trying to look smart. no one here actually knows what a 'deconstruction' is. lol. a deconstruction is just pulling apart elements of something to see what makes the whole. it's not the process of forming it into something else. Seems like you don't know what a deconstruction is either. |
Gekishin said: Damn slacker.fst said: I have a minimum effort policyIt doesn't work if you only say the name of the show. Proper trollbait requires more than that. |
| Proud founder of The Official Anti-Ging Freecss Fan Club Join now! Kellhus said: GuusWayne said: there is a limit to the suspension of disbelief And it's the fan that did it. Not the smoking porn reading rubik cube genius rape ape with a magic boat. |
TheOldHome said: Heredity said: so many people in this thread trying to look smart. no one here actually knows what a 'deconstruction' is. lol. a deconstruction is just pulling apart elements of something to see what makes the whole. it's not the process of forming it into something else. Seems like you don't know what a deconstruction is either. Let's agree that nobody does. |
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Adair said: judals said: Thanks for summarizing the hunger games. Kind of. That was seriously not my intention, but now that I look over it... xD I don't even like the Hunger Games though. Still better than 90% of anime though. |
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judals said: Still better than 90% of anime though. Hell no! First book was fine, then it went downhill with the sequels. |
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SolBlade said: judals said: Still better than 90% of anime though. Hell no! First book was fine, then it went downhill with the sequels. Hell no, book 2 was the vbest, book 3 was silly shit but the ending was epic |
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judals said: SolBlade said: Hell no! First book was fine, then it went downhill with the sequels. Hell no, book 2 was the vbest, book 3 was silly shit but the ending was epic Either way, I honestly thought the series was an inferior version of Battle Royale (the manga as well as the novel). I will admit that the ending was pretty cool so it's got that going for it. |
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SolBlade said: judals said: Hell no, book 2 was the vbest, book 3 was silly shit but the ending was epic Either way, I honestly thought the series was an inferior version of Battle Royale (the manga as well as the novel). I will admit that the ending was pretty cool so it's got that going for it. I refuse to believe HG is to BR what Naruto is to Hx Is BR a book or a manga btw? I don't know I really enjoyed the series overall, would have enjoyed the third a lot more if 90% of it weren't set underground. |
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judals said: SolBlade said: Either way, I honestly thought the series was an inferior version of Battle Royale (the manga as well as the novel). I will admit that the ending was pretty cool so it's got that going for it. I refuse to believe HG is to BR what Naruto is to Hx Is BR a book or a manga btw? I don't know I really enjoyed the series overall, would have enjoyed the third a lot more if 90% of it weren't set underground. Oh, definitely not like that. I'm just saying that BR is the "original" HG. It's both. There is a book and a manga adaptation of the series. |
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SolBlade said: judals said: I refuse to believe HG is to BR what Naruto is to Hx Is BR a book or a manga btw? I don't know I really enjoyed the series overall, would have enjoyed the third a lot more if 90% of it weren't set underground. Oh, definitely not like that. I'm just saying that BR is the "original" HG. It's both. There is a book and a manga adaptation of the series. Which one is better? Oh and Zevil Island is better than both :-P |
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| It wouldn't look like much, since the protagonist of the story would likely be dead before long, with the shit that they go through on a regular basis in an average shounen. Or something. I don't really know what deconstruction is. |
judals said: Is BR a book or a manga btw? Battle Royale manga is much better than the movie. To deconstruct something, you must first establish it. A deconstruction is a lot like the realistic writing style that was popular during the American civil war. You first establish romantic ideals (I'm going to sail for the rest of my life, I love the sea!) and then you later on destroy these romantic ideals (OH MY GOD A WHIRPOOL AGHHH!!!!). - Example - Here is an example of a deconstruction of Naruto. So in the first episodes/chapters of Naruto we find out multiple times that Naruto wants to become the Hokage. We have now established the romantic ideal we will destroy. During the Pein Arc the whole village is practically destroyed, and Naruto turns into 8 tails while fighting Pein. If you simply take away the final seal that Minato put onto Naruto not only would he kill Nagato but he would assist in the destruction of his Village. Naruto has destroyed the village in which he has wanted to lead and thus his romantic ideals were deconstructed. |
MrLiefJul 20, 2014 3:43 PM
Jomei said: SolviteSekai said: Apparently Tsudecimo's only definition of Deconstruction is madoka magicka. He's understanding it the way most anime fans seem to conceive of it; a show that subverts tropes or tries to apply them in a more realistic reductio ad Evangelion kind of way--that if you take a trope to its "logical" conclusion, it's going to be dark 'n edgy (****z yeah). Deconstructing a trope doesn't have to be darker and edgier, though. It just tends to go that route because people tend to... well, like darker and edgier. An example would be taking a protagonist's "miraculous" healing ability they've discovered and applying it to the whole world, thereby nearly eliminating death. However, given that people like darker and edgier, even that would likely be played up in a cynical manner most of the time. Something to keep in mind is that it's hard call an entire work a deconstruction (literally, at least). It's nigh impossible to play every conceivable trope in a genre to its logical conclusion simultaneously. Rather, works that deconstruct and subvert a lot of typical genre tropes could be classified as deconstructions. I would reference the laconic version of Deconstructor Fleet for reference. I like how this thread ended up being a discussion on the nature of deconstructions, what they actually are, and so forth. It's one of the more interesting reads I've had recently. Akito_Kinomoto said: ...What would a deconstruction of a psychological anime be like? Oh crap. What indeed. I'm not sure I want to know. xD I think we could start with a deconstruction of Mind Screw. I'm not sure how that would be accomplished. Adair said: judals said: [/spoiler]Thanks for summarizing the hunger games. Kind of. That was seriously not my intention, but now that I look over it... xD I don't even like the Hunger Games though. I got a laugh out of this. |
TripleSRankJul 20, 2014 3:50 PM
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