Suisei no Gargantia Episode 5 Discussion

symbv said:
Agree with morrownight again. AnimageNeby, again you dump a huge load of text just to regurgitate the points you want to make. And I do not really see any evidence you have paid attention to our discussion. And although I hesitate to say it, I have sympathy with morrownight's saying that you are rather rude in your behavior. And like him, I do not really feel like replying to that huge lump of text you posted.




いえいえ、二年半でゼロから日本語のことわざが使える段階まで着いてるなんてあなたは天才じゃん！俺ともかくほとんどの人はそれが絶対無理だと思う。

I don't think it is appropriate to write most of the post in a language other than English in MAL, even in Japanese which is the language in anime/manga, so I will reply to you in English.

I understand what you try to say here, and what you have been trying to say. But this is all because of a mistaken take of what the anime is offering just because of what they see in ep.1, and it is made worse by the refusal to accept that their initial expectation is a mistake and the theme of the anime is on somewhere else, which is something that Japanese fans are much more flexible. And this is not really 第一回のせい, because if you say that you are putting the blame on the first episode. If there is any blame, then it is more on the viewers themselves who 1) do not read the advertisement material well but later blame "false advertising" 2) refuse to adjust their view once they know their initial expectation is not what the series are offering 3) and the refusal is perhaps made more determined because of some visceral animosity against SoL or fanservice, which Japanese fans have considerably higher tolerance or acceptance. Of course you are right, since they are not Japanese, surely it is natural that they feel differently, but if they only want to stick to their own view and refuse to question themselves that their standard is not the only standard valid to judge an anime series or an episode, which is a product aimed entirely towards a Japanese audience and received overwhelmingly positively by this audience, then I can only say there is an element of willful cultural ignorance or even cultural arrogance/suprematicism in play here (my standard is better than yours, even though it is a product that is aimed only to people like you)

symbv said:
^ Writing an even longer post to insinuate that we do not have evidence in our discussion just because you were told that only makes you look grudging and, yes, "small-minded". Don't expect any real reply from us. That's all I would say. Ciao.

WolfWood37 said:
Aren't these girls like 12?

Anyway glasses girl was hot.

Maybe the plot will move forward next episode.

StopDropAndBowl said:
@AnimageNeby

I think a big reason why people are ignoring you and/or being short with you is that you're posting really huge posts to say very simple things. This last post is multiple paragraphs long, and you repeat yourself over, and over, and over. You could have just as easily said:

"I don't think the evidence you've provided is adequate to prove your assertions."

Further, the tone of your posts are pretty condescending. What exactly are you looking for? You keep asking for concrete proof without stopping and thinking whether or not said proof exists either way. Concrete proof would be if they went around and polled every single fan in Japan on the episode, or perhaps if they took multiple polls of reasonable sample sizes and compared the results. I can say with almost 100% certainty that no such polling is occurring. In lieu of such polling, we can only go off of what we do have, which is impressions, blogs, video polls, sales, ect. The two parties have agreed that these qualify as sufficient evidence to establish a base agreement. If you challenge said evidence as being sufficient, than that is fine, but that doesn't suddenly make it their responsibility to satisfy your demand for "better" evidence, nor does it make them incorrect for establishing said basis on the weight of that evidence.

There is a very common practice that has become popular on the internet of assuming that since one has simply said: "I challenge that!" that this somehow makes the other party responsible for soothing one's doubts with no effort on the part of the challenger to give reason for his challenge. If you have evidence that contradicts the agreed upon position, by all means, post it. If not, than understand that no one should be required to give you any more effort than you are willing to put in yourself. Why should they search for evidence when you refuse to even attempt to give counter-evidence? "Burden of proof" is not some free-pass to waste other people's time.

And now you have me doing it.

TL;DR: Either put up or shut up. Stop expecting everyone else to put up for you.

"That's how I see the chain of events. I'm actually only using reciprocity. In earlier posts, nymbv demanded links as proof from me when I stated many sites translated Ledo as Red, for instance. Why can't I do the same? Back then I gave them - even though he complained that I had ignored his requests for too long. Why can't he give them now? And why can't I complain that he ignores my request, or I'm being 'rude' and 'condescending', when apparently he didn't think he was back then?"

symbv said:
^ Proof that you never read our posts carefully "THEY claimed there WAS proof for it!They have directly stated it was a fact, and that they had statistical proof. ". Where did I directly state it was a fact? Where did I say three are statistical proof (you used "they" so it must have included me not just morrownight).

Despite you being told by 1, then 2, then 3 users that your rambling posts are annoying, condescending, rude and you still stuck to this unseemly long post style that keeps regurgitating points and demanding things that were never the things that were in the discussion. I can see that your "small-mindedness" and lack of self-awareness of how annoying you are just knows no bound.

"That's how I see the chain of events. I'm actually only using reciprocity. In earlier posts, nymbv demanded links as proof from me when I stated many sites translated Ledo as Red, for instance. Why can't I do the same? Back then I gave them - even though he complained that I had ignored his requests for too long. Why can't he give them now? And why can't I complain that he ignores my request, or I'm being 'rude' and 'condescending', when apparently he didn't think he was back then?"

Anyway, as the feedback in Japan was so overwhelmingly positive, it is easy to find sites that show that. I even posted in MAL about this (which is where I first posted about Gargantia ep.5; my post in this thread, as I said right from the beginning, is just a copy-and-paste thing without any intention to join any debate)

This is my last post about this.

You can keep posting ridiculously long posts about how vindicated you are but that would just how ridiculous and small-minded you are. And the right thing to do would be what morrownight and StopDropAndBowl have done: Stop paying attention to you. If all you can do is what you have shown us so far - keep writing long posts (including the one above) that use the same attitude and tone to justify yourself even after all of us have told you how needless, annoying, unhelpful, and yes, rude, it is, this would just go to show how utterly unable or unwilling you are to examine yourself, ask why you are being told by so many that there is problem with your attitude and behavior, and seek to learn constructive lesson from it.

symbv said:
^ Oh wow, yet another super duper long post that only restates the same tired (and tiresome) points to justify yourself. So it proves your complete inability for self-reflection and your tendency to insist on being rude even when told repeatedly by people (not just one but three) that this is not appreciated. You are really hopeless.

Yeah, maybe I am a bit inconsistent about "my last post" statement, but I guess it is better you know I read your trashy long post that serve yourself more than anything, or you prefer to just write long treatise without people reading it? Ha ha ha I guess I should take you out of your misery by letting you throw your own tantrum all by yourself ha ha.

As for the proof I brought up because you asked for proof and then you said it was not good? Those arguments you came up with are just laughable stuff.

symbv said:
Ha ha ha I guess I should take you out of your misery by letting you throw your own tantrum all by yourself ha ha.

But before that...
Your points above about the so-called "proof" you are clinging on like a life jacket again show your arguments being laughable because those are never what I have been saying. And as StopDropAndBowl made clear already, your demand is just being unreasonable and ridiculous, which only shows you are adamant at being petty and rude (your repeated attack of me being "inconsistent" is just another proof as it is never part of this discussion or debate). Yes I repeat it, YOU ARE JUST A RUDE PERSON who cannot reflect upon your own failure.

symbv said:
Learning how to post short post now?

I am not acknowledging I am repeating myself, but declaring I am to repeat myself. Because I sense that you need me to repeat my point to drum the message onto you. That's a big difference.

And why you are considered to be consistently rude? Because when 1, 2 and then 3 people told you your behavior is annoying and your long posts are just repetitive and the length and the tone are showcasing your rudeness, you just keep doing it. Now if you are a child who has no idea about being sensitive to the environment and the presence of other people, you may be forgiven. But of course you are a child, and hence your continuous refusal to listen to others and insistence on self-justifying and attacking is a clear indication that you can only act rudely in this kind of situation.

I never said anything about proof does not exist and I don't believe morrownight said anything like that, unless it is a "proof" in your own elusive term.

And your quote has nothing to do with my claim.

When saying your are going to repeat, and than repeat it, you're repeating it. Don't be childish. You've been saying how long my posts are and that I'm 'small-minded' 4-5 times now. that's repetition, however you look at it

symbv said:
Why do I need proof to say "Too many care only for an overarching plot"? It is just like when I said "too many people care only for special effect when they watch a movie". Any demand for "substantiating the claim" is ridiculous. And going for length to demand this and that "proof" for things one said because it is taken as "clams" is even more laughable.

Reciprocity itself is not absurd, but keep repeating it to a tiresome level while in fact using it as a tool for self-justification is absurd.

When saying your are going to repeat, and than repeat it, you're repeating it. Don't be childish. You've been saying how long my posts are and that I'm 'small-minded' 4-5 times now. that's repetition, however you look at it

But at least I keep it brief, unlike you who keep repeating it ad nauseaum in your rambling long post after post.

And before you call others double-standard, just remember how you are told repeated things as you chose not to listen but ramble on and on and on and on. Again, you were the person who started this and your behavior was told by several people as rude, but you kept doing it. A rude person, by being the first to be rude and refused to listen when told he was rude, cannot accuse another of getting rude with him as a result.

I already said it was true I was rude, for the simple reason I respond in kind, and I feel you've been rude to me from the start.

At least, in my 'long post after post' I used logic and reciprocity, and stayed consistent in what I claim.

symbv said:
Back to long posts with your usual rudeness?

That quote does not need proof because it is never a statement that needs proof to make. You simply could not see a view as a view - so much for your "logic".

As StopDropAndBowl said, you are demanding something that is way beyond what the discussion is premised on. And I agree with him that you should NOT be expected others to keep putting up for your absurd demand for your so-called "logical arguments" because the kind of discussions morrownight and I had never requires the level of "proof" (nobody is writing some academic paper here) you keep nosing in for as if it is some piece of candy your childish mind could not do without.

I already said it was true I was rude, for the simple reason I respond in kind, and I feel you've been rude to me from the start.

And using your definition of double-standard, I guess when you are rude to someone who is being rude to you, you are using double-standard then? Funny definition you have!

At least, in my 'long post after post' I used logic and reciprocity, and stayed consistent in what I claim.

As I said before, a badly behaved child should be left to himself when he refuses to listen and keeps throwing tantrum while being rude to everyone around. Ciao.

JaxemsR said:
^ Me gods that's one heck of a text wall.

Very nice episode, makes me think of Spirited Away or any other of Miyazaki's movies.

please elaborate and substantiate your claims with logical and valid arguments, and use reciprocity

symbv said:
AnimageNeby, right from the beginning you were rude (as morrownight observed) and you only became ruder when you were told by 2 more people you were indeed rude. Your demand, as we have observed, only reflect you did not read our discussion with care or asking for things that justified your intrusive rudeness more than engaging in reasonable discussion, which was the case between morrownight and I before your barging in. And the childish semantics you played with "reciprocity" "logic" "double-standard" "inconsistency" all have little place in the discussion except for self-serving righteousness to justify your refusal to listen and small-mindedness. At the end, you have been evading the charges, made by all three of us, that you came in with rude and condescending attitude and that your demands are unreasonable

please elaborate and substantiate your claims with logical and valid arguments, and use reciprocity

symbv said:
Very simple, you did not pay attention to what discussed and then picked up quotes asking for proof when I said repeatedly that they are my view (which I never stated as a claim - so you are building a bunch of strawmen of "claim" to throw your "proof" darts at). And for observations I have made, I have given evidence that people who do not speak Japanese can understand. You confuse everything and then demand everything in academic research level "proof" which of course you only took because you think this is the only way you can "win" the argument, thus justifying your rudeness in your 10+ posts since the beginning so far. And this is really despicably ridiculous and annoying act you have been doing. So your "logic" of those 5 points or whatever is just another exercise of regurgitating the garbage you have stated time and again.

And since you have been acted like this ever since you barged in without reading our discussion with care (and still does not) and demanding things that are not even relevant to our discussion, which morrownight and StopDropAndBowl rightly pointed out that you were rude in doing that, there is no point that I should put up with you except to keep repeating you are a rude and small-minded person through and through all along who could not even write things succinctly with any clear sense, despite your claim of treasuring "logic" (your own logic I guess). All you can do is to keep saying you post as you see fit - I guess you just love acting like an annoying and irresponsible jerk even when people around you told you how much of a jerk you are - and keep evading your responsibility of getting three users to complain about you with your trashy long post about almost nothing.

AnimageNeby said:
So, do you acknowledge that your claim was a mere opinion, and is not backed up by the data you provided, yes or no?

AnimageNeby said:
And do you then accept that my alternative stance/opinion explains that data as well, and thus could be considered equally to be right?

symbv said:
The data I provided is for something else (about the overwhelming positive feedback). Only a person who does not read with care (but pretending to do so - hence the rudeness) would think otherwise. And where does the "claim" thing come from? It is again from your seriously deluded interpretation of what morrownight and I were talking about. And you still try to say you have not been rude from the very beginning? This is just bullshit.

I don't care about your alternative stance as it is never a part of the discussion between morrownight and I. You just barged in with your own opinion in the guise of mediation but in fact to promote your own thoughts while being rude to both of us. So your opinion counts little to us. Never once did I say anything about validity of your stance/opinion. To me you were just not happy that people ignored you and (rightly) pointed out that you were rude and somehow you came to see that this means we did not agree with your stance and you proceeded to go to ridiculously long length in tiresome post after tiresome post to attack others' view (which you called "claim"), when in fact we never paid attention to what your stance is because of your rudeness from the beginning (shall we say "reciprocity"?).

GodlyKyon said:
A Beach episode? I did not expect that... Though its not your normal beach episode.

I really like all the girls so far, really nice designs, and the clothes reminds me of something that Native Americans would have in a Disney/Ghibli movie