| What? It is still going bro. You gotta look through the catalog & give things a chance. Plus, there is always that 1 anime that is a 9-10 each year. We don't have as much moe/ecchi stuff these days as we use too. Take a good look at this year for example. |
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well he has to be if he's making an argument that anime is declining. That's an assumption that isn't supported by his post or his anime list. why are you talking about the op? i'm not defending how shoddy his argument is. 'Cause the comment about seeing only 39 anime was specifically aimed the op. low entertainment standard. honest. not even insulting you. just saying if there are 25 must watch anime series for you in a year alone, your entertainment standard is low. I really don't know what you mean. Are you saying that number for 2011 is insufficient or in excess? no he doesn't. why does he need to watch 100 animes to discuss anything. I didn't say he needed to see 100 anime, I said that if he wants to argue that current anime is lesser than whatever anime he is referencing then he'd have to have seen a number of current anime to be able to reasonably form that opinion. you obviously have a lot of time on your hands, because you're saying a person needs to watch a shitload of, well, shit, to argue about the quality of the anime industry when quite frankly, all it takes is a look at the creatively bankrupt premises of 3/4th of premiering anime to show that this industry is in decline, or at the very least, stagnant. That's not a shit load of free time, chief. 1 hour of free time a day and you have the ability to see more than half of the newly produced 13-26 anime that's made in a year. The amount of TV content one just accumulates from just watching gets pretty damn high. I'm sorry if thinking about it in one lump sum is too much for you. I wasn't even advocating that he watch any series in their entirety, just enough to be make a comparison to his preferred era of anime. |
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Annoiato said: jal90 said: no it doesn't, more anime viewed and credibility imply correlation, not equivalence. equivalence implies a direct relation.But in generalization statements like this the equivalence is actually right. Well, if you make a general statement about a medium you have watched 5 shows of, your opinion is less contrasted than the one from somebody who has watched 20 shows of. It's an inherent truth that, the more you explore something, the more it qualifies you to pontificate about it. So the equivalence still stands, because one (having watched stuff) is the cause of the other (being able to talk with full/enough knowledge). |
Anime_Name said: well he has to be if he's making an argument that anime is declining. That's an assumption that isn't supported by his post or his anime list. why are you talking about the op? i'm not defending how shoddy his argument is. 'Cause the comment about seeing only 39 anime was specifically aimed the op. low entertainment standard. honest. not even insulting you. just saying if there are 25 must watch anime series for you in a year alone, your entertainment standard is low. I really don't know what you mean. Are you saying that number for 2011 is insufficient or in excess? no he doesn't. why does he need to watch 100 animes to discuss anything. I didn't say he needed to see 100 anime, I said that if he wants to argue that current anime is lesser than whatever anime he is referencing then he'd have to have seen a number of current anime to be able to reasonably form that opinion. you obviously have a lot of time on your hands, because you're saying a person needs to watch a shitload of, well, shit, to argue about the quality of the anime industry when quite frankly, all it takes is a look at the creatively bankrupt premises of 3/4th of premiering anime to show that this industry is in decline, or at the very least, stagnant. That's not a shit load of free time, chief. 1 hour of free time a day and you have the ability to see more than half of the newly produced 13-26 anime that's made in a year. The amount of TV content one just accumulates from just watching gets pretty damn high. I'm sorry if thinking about it in one lump sum is too much for you. I wasn't even advocating that he watch any series in their entirety, just enough to be make a comparison to his preferred era of anime. debating over the OP not watching enough anime to your standards of what is considered eligiblly appropriate for the OP to make a comment on the declining of the anime industry is a ridiculous argument, i mean guys come on. Go do something with your own time and well. just.... SHUT UP!! lol No one wants to hear this crap. He probably just does not want to update his list. He's probably well versed on the spectrum and evolution of the industry, or maybe he's not but either way this debate is nonsense. |
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Debating over the OP not watching enough anime to your standards of what is considered eligiblly appropriate for the OP to make a comment on the declining of the anime industry is a ridiculous argument, i mean guys come on. Go do something with your own time and well. just.... SHUT UP!! lol That op said it too. It's the only point that makes any sense in all this. No one wants to hear this crap. He probably just does not want to update his list. He's probably well versed on the spectrum and evolution of the industry, or maybe he's not but either way this debate is nonsense. His post doesn't hint at him being well versed though and actually makes it seems like he is just a newb that is jumping to conclusions based on his limited exposure. In which case the proper answer is, watch more anime. |
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rederoin said: Nice assumption. If you don't like my posts, ignore them. Ignoring things doesn't make them go away. |
LoneWolf said: @Josh makes me sad to call myself Canadian. |
rederoin said: I wasen't even insulting somebody in the posts you quoted. You sarcastically said "you don't know anything about anime that are airing/in production". That's an insult in my books. Oh well, let's leave it at that. |
LoneWolf said: @Josh makes me sad to call myself Canadian. |
| @animefreak 1 wow can you really say that the good anime era has ended. what makes you in the position to even say that. everyone has different tastes dumbass, i look at your examples and go wow there all shit but yolu think its the greatest thing thats happened to anime. i think this is a stupid thread and you shouldnt dare say that all the good anime in the world is finished because all your crappy shows are over. fuck im pissed i really hate you |
| I'd say the best was the 2006-7 period. It's not that I don't like the shows now. It's just that there was more good shows in that period. Don't get me wrong. I like all the modern shows that everyone else loves (Except Sword Art Online) like Bakemonogatari, K-On and Madoka Magica. It's just that there were more good shows in that period than any year since. For example: Code Geass, Death Note, Haruhi Suzumiya, Clannad, Welcome to the NHK, Gurren Lagann, the list goes on.  |
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Animefreak1 said: Also I have to agree with many people who have said this, why does how much anime i have listed any reason to try and degrade my thread? 39 is a respectable amount, the reason I haven't listed all of my anime that i've watched is because i've watched some so long ago and i remember as I go by, the ones i've listed were the ones i'd remembered at the time when i added them to my list which took me about what 10 mins to do? I don't use my MAL account often, trying to use it more lately. But please for those of you who are using the 39 list argument over and over again, please refrain from doing so, because one it's a pretty weak argument especially since i've stated earlier that it's not my complete list and two goes to show that you have not read the entire thread or have just looked at the name of the thread and wrote your response. So shall we please just carry on since things have been set straight. This is, first and foremost, a cataloguing site after all. So its natural that most users will list everything they've seen and read and will assume the same about everyone else, its only natural to take people's lists at face value. As for 39 anime, it is a respectable amount, but unfortunately a lot of people here do seem to judge others on how much anime they've listed. Perhaps edit your opening post by saying you've not included everything you've seen on your list? That should put people in the right direction. |
Anime_Name said: you don't need to watch a tv series to know it's shit. i know it's hard to believe, but most people can tell a show is garbage without even wasting 24 minutes on said show.That's not a shit load of free time, chief. 1 hour of free time a day and you have the ability to see more than half of the newly produced 13-26 anime that's made in a year. The amount of TV content one just accumulates from just watching gets pretty damn high. I'm sorry if thinking about it in one lump sum is too much for you. I wasn't even advocating that he watch any series in their entirety, just enough to be make a comparison to his preferred era of anime. and that's actually a lot of time. you obviously have a lot of free time if one hour of anime is something you can arrange every day. that or anime is obviously your only entertainment medium, since you know, 25 'must-watch' series and whatnot. so please, enough of the 'you have to watch a lot of anime to say anime is in decline' bullshit. jal90 said: Well, if you make a general statement about a medium you have watched 5 shows of, your opinion is less contrasted than the one from somebody who has watched 20 shows of. critiquing anime is not an e-penis contest on seeing who has seen the most anime. seeing more anime does not make your generalized statement more valid. to make it easier to understand, and taking the e-penis context further. meet jonah falcon. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonah_Falcon he has a big dick. i assure you he has what is possibly the biggest dick in the world. now meet tom hardy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Hardy now i don't know if you've seen Bronson, but his dick is not that big. but i can attest that he can 'pontificate', to use your word, what it's like to have sex a lot more than mr. falcon can. It's an inherent truth that, the more you explore something, the more it qualifies you to pontificate about it. So the equivalence still stands, because one (having watched stuff) is the cause of the other (being able to talk with full/enough knowledge). ... there's nothing inherent about that, do you know what inherent means?by your logic, the sophists were more qualified to pontificate about life than socrates because what? the sophists were more well-versed in 'conventional' knowledge? so no, the equivalence doesn't stand. there are film critics that watch maybe two dozen films per year and they have more insight than your average movie junkie who goes every weekend to the theaters to watch snow white and the huntsman or something ridiculous. |
Animefreak1 said: Code geass and guren lagan are garbage. In fact the entire entertainment industry is filled with garbage, so much that you will often compare rubbish animes with trash animes and decide that one such as CG is worth anything. The era didn't end. It's simply so that the best of the best animes were always fewer by number ... it's obvious why. This year was awful. Even slightly interesting animes are scarce. Q_Q |
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Annoiato said: jal90 said: Well, if you make a general statement about a medium you have watched 5 shows of, your opinion is less contrasted than the one from somebody who has watched 20 shows of. critiquing anime is not an e-penis contest on seeing who has seen the most anime. seeing more anime does not make your generalized statement more valid. Wow, way to mess my post. Who talked about e-penis and stuff like that (are we in a popularity contest or what)? I talked about knowledge. More shows watched = more knowledge. More knowledge = More credibility. This applies to generalizations as long as they, by definition, talk about the whole of something. If you know a lot about that something, you can make more reliable generalizations than if you don't know anything about it. Annoiato said: It's an inherent truth that, the more you explore something, the more it qualifies you to pontificate about it. So the equivalence still stands, because one (having watched stuff) is the cause of the other (being able to talk with full/enough knowledge). ... there's nothing inherent about that, do you know what inherent means?by your logic, the sophists were more qualified to pontificate about life than socrates because what? the sophists were more well-versed in 'conventional' knowledge? so no, the equivalence doesn't stand. there are film critics that watch maybe two dozen films per year and they have more insight than your average movie junkie who goes every weekend to the theaters to watch snow white and the huntsman or something ridiculous. I assume when making this statement that these two people (the one who has watched 5 shows and the one who has watched 20 shows) give a similar treatment to their viewing experience (that is, watching just 20 hentais doesn't give you more knowledge of the overall industry than watching 5 different shows), that the interest on the genre/medium/whatever is also comparable and many other variables that are conditioning the comparison (what about if the second one watched those 20 shows fifteen years ago, as a kid? (the criterion is not the same)); I didn't say that it was a definitive trait, I just said that, in general, the more you experience something, the more you know about that something. I don't see how can you deny that. Even those critics who watch two dozen films per year have based their knowledge in hundreds and hundreds of previous viewings, theoretical books and a strong dedication to explore the film industry. |
you don't need to watch a tv series to know it's shit. i know it's hard to believe, but most people can tell a show is garbage without even wasting 24 minutes on said show. What you are talking about is uninformed opinion, overgeneralizations, and crystal ball mentality. I've never questioned anyone's ability to make those. What I've been mentioning is reasonable opinions formed from an actually viewing enough of a show to reach a conclusion on how much you like or dislike it. and that's actually a lot of time. you obviously have a lot of free time if one hour of anime is something you can arrange every day. that or anime is obviously your only entertainment medium, since you know, 25 'must-watch' series and whatnot. It's only a lot of time when looking at it in one lump sum because many people don't add up their time spent on frivolities. 1 hour a day of time for a hobby is not a lot of time when you consider that the average amount of time spent watching TV in America is 34hrs a week. That's nearly 5x the amount of time per day I'm talking about for anime. Also, saying that it breaks down to 1 hour per day doesn't mean that time is consecutive or even that it is done on a daily basis. If those 25 anime are all 26 episodes long and last 20min per episode then that would be (25*26*20/60)=216 hours of anime to watch within a year. That's not even an hour a day to complete. Spending 1 hour a day on your "hobby" doesn't seem like a lot of time no matter how you try to misconstrue it. so please, enough of the 'you have to watch a lot of anime to say anime is in decline' bullshit. You have to have seen the anime you claim is in decline in order to reasonably make such a claim. And I've said that 39 out of 20k and no signs of anything really current, doesn't put oneself in that position. |
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Anime_Name said: Debating over the OP not watching enough anime to your standards of what is considered eligiblly appropriate for the OP to make a comment on the declining of the anime industry is a ridiculous argument, i mean guys come on. Go do something with your own time and well. just.... SHUT UP!! lol That op said it too. It's the only point that makes any sense in all this. No one wants to hear this crap. He probably just does not want to update his list. He's probably well versed on the spectrum and evolution of the industry, or maybe he's not but either way this debate is nonsense. His post doesn't hint at him being well versed though and actually makes it seems like he is just a newb that is jumping to conclusions based on his limited exposure. In which case the proper answer is, watch more anime. What gives you the qualification to be so judgmental though against the OP as in him being versed on the anime industry when you your self has an even lower list then he does. Yeah i am sure you have alternate account or something and you just use this account for argumental debates and criticism but i just find that funny that you would argue with some one like that and try to create an argument with some one when your experience does not show on your profile. |
ArtimesGamerAug 10, 2012 7:40 PM
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link9us said: What gives you the qualification to be so judgmental though against the OP as in the being versed on the anime industry when you your self has an even lower list then he does. Yeah i am sure you have alternate account or something but i just find that funny that you would argue with some one like, with so little anime on your list. I more or less am repeating and agreeing with that statement the op made about his own experience and exposure. Do you see me making claims that the entirety of anime is in a state of decline? No, I'm not that arrogant, self-centered, or blind to believe my limited exposure is able to denote the health of an entire medium. I ridicule pretty much every damn post that attempts to use their personal opinion to comment about the negative state that anime industry is supposedly in. If I ever make a statement in regards to the health of the industry it's going to be in reference to sales, financial reports, TV/movie metrics and other measurable things which are not my personal opinion and don't hinge on how much anime is on mylist. In other words the that little 4-letter word people are afraid of, fact. |
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| The 00's had the entire 10 years to bring us some of those so called classics; Geass, TTGL especially didn't even come out until several years later. You're unfairly basing the overall quality over the first couple years of the new decade. I'm sure in due time, maybe next year, maybe a couple years later from now, there will be a new anime that will be just as popular. Give it a time. I'm really not even a fan of more modern anime, I actually find it kind of silly that people considered the 'good era' of anime to be the mid-late 00's. When there are countless wonderful anime to be seen that came out decades earlier, and more and more are getting the English fansub treatment they deserve. Nonetheless, good anime still around, it's just not around all the time, and they're not in every single anime season. Neane1993 said: An unproportionally large number of 80's and 90's "Original Video Animations" are amongst the worst anime I've ever seen. *Unfairly list a couple dozen OVA's that were released during a time where hundreds and hundreds were produced over the last half of the decade. Not only that, but listing the obvious duds.* That's pretty cool, dude. I could list just as many quality OVA's that were released from the mid 80's-early 90's. Calling some of the obvious choices out and manipulating that to prove your point doesn't help anyone. Just as many forgettable, mediocre OVA's that have come out in the last decade as well. |
HiasAug 10, 2012 7:50 PM
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| Idk if anyone's said this before as the past few pages have become a bit personal... But IMHO: The era of 'good' anime is far from over. The same is always said about any form of entertainment. Retrospect is always 20/20. It feels like the present is 99% crap and 1% dirt and there's not even a speck of anything worth watching. The issue is a high saturation of the market. There are tons of animes that are either coming out or continuing airing and only those with insane amounts of free time can watch them. It always takes a couple seasons for people to forget the crap animes and recommend only the good stuff. It takes years for the great stuff to rise above the okay stuff. Right now it feels like wading through a river of crud but in 5 or 10 years there WILL be animes that a lot of people will remember fondly. You may not personally like it but that may just mean that you like anime from the early 2000 era, just like how some people only like music from the 50's. It doesn't mean all music today is shit. There's absolutely no way you could listen to all of the music produced today and make an objective statement like that. It means you have different tastes. There arent as many people recommending because the novelty of anime as a subculture has died down. Watching anime is not hard. It is not tough for someone to get into anime like it was in the 90s. Having a site like this is a given. It's not hard to find an anime that suits your tastes right down to the color of the main character's hair. A newbie can get online and start vaguely looking around. Within hours they have a pretty good starting list for things to watch. It may not be classics or even GOOD but they are in a much better position than some kid who sees DBZ, sailor moon, and yu yu hakusho on television in the afternoon and wants to know more about this strange animation format, but has no idea where to begin. It may seem like there's no good anime right now, but there's so much more now than there were in the 80s-90s etc, so it's harder and harder to filter when everything is fresh and new. Come back in five or ten years and see if this era was as bad as you think it is, and look at those other eras that you think are so great now, when you're at the height of your nostalgia. Remember,you're just experiencing Sturgeons Law. Don't take it to heart. |
| I scoff at the notion that 'An era of good anime has finished'. As someone said earlier, it's a cycle. It's akin to music/games/hairstyles/fashion/etc. Trends change overtime. If someone said 'good anime has long since passed' or any other silly bs, it reminds me of people saying "Music today is crap, the 70's/80's/90's were better!" It's all generational and taste. Right now moe is reaching its peak ( It's been around since before 2006 ), and for all we know something new could take over. When or what that is remains to be seen, but people that say there's no good anime nowadays sound like a grumpy old man. As for me, I'll just ride the moe wave and enjoy it. |
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FroZen109 said: @animefreak 1 wow can you really say that the good anime era has ended. what makes you in the position to even say that. everyone has different tastes dumbass, i look at your examples and go wow there all shit but yolu think its the greatest thing thats happened to anime. i think this is a stupid thread and you shouldnt dare say that all the good anime in the world is finished because all your crappy shows are over. fuck im pissed i really hate you This guy knows whats up. |
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Annoiato said: you obviously have a lot of time on your hands, because you're saying a person needs to watch a shitload of, well, shit, to argue about the quality of the anime industry when quite frankly, all it takes is a look at the creatively bankrupt premises of 3/4th of premiering anime to show that this industry is in decline, or at the very least, stagnant. Uh, yah. To judge the anime industry you need to watch tons of anime. The industry is huge, and the number of anime genres is huge. Without viewing experience you lack any basis for judgement. How can you define good anime if you've only dipped your toe in the pond? Your posts earlier made sense, that did not. |
AbdarrellAug 10, 2012 8:39 PM
| Well fate/zero is all over the place. Looks like people appreciate this anime just as much. I think you jump too quickly to conclusions. Sometimes we need to stop and look around, and see what we have been given, and appreciate it. People tend to think "oooh man, the old days was so much better...". Older stuff are usually over-glorified because of nostalgia, fame, and whatnot. Like Pokemon for me, the god of my childhood. This was the SHIT, and nothing could compare. I caught all 151 Pokemon on my gameboy color that i bought with my own money. But when I look back now, it's rather shitty, at least after the Pokemon league. I bet your ass that Fate/zero, Mirai Nikki, probably SAO (even though i don't like it till now) FMA: BH, Gintama' etc are all going to be, or is to some extent "must watch" and "THE best anime" for some (like me) and they've got a general consensus that they're good, too, if I may add. |
sagdashinAug 10, 2012 8:44 PM
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NNick said: Just look at the western games and their stories, they're better than most of the anime stories. Well, but then again, Anime is made in JAPAN, for Japanese, their culture is different. Yeah let's make an apples to oranges comparison. |
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NNick said: Anime_Name said: NNick said: Just look at the western games and their stories, they're better than most of the anime stories. Well, but then again, Anime is made in JAPAN, for Japanese, their culture is different. Yeah let's make an apples to oranges comparison. No, instead lets compare stories. I think that would be tough for you as you'd have to separate game-play mechanics such as choices and interactivity from consideration because anime isn't an interactive "choose your own path" media before you can make a valid comparison. |
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NNick said: Mass Effect/ Dragon Age/ Uncharted / Gears Of War / Dead Space / Assassins Creed ... And the list goes on. ME, the series where the story turn into so much crap that the fans practically made the devs come up with a better ending... Dragon Age has the same problem as ME. The team behind it utterly dropped the ball storywise in the sequel. Haven't play Uncharted but GoW, Dead Space, and AC all get a big "wtf are you smoking?" from me. The story in GoW sucks and Dead Space would mean something if wasn't for the countless other space movies that did it better. And 5 games is hardly "most" Western games. Maybe you should have said "most of the games you've happened to play" in order to make your statement seem less like inflated BS. |
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NNick said: I agree, anime is not video games, though my point is that most of the western games tend to have better story lines than Japanese anime. Then again, as i already pointed out, what's good in Japan might not be good elsewhere. Generally, most of the western people won't accept young girls wearing little skirt and abnormal breast sizes a ok, same as for fan service. I Started anime only in February, and quite frankly i find this absurd. Most western people won't accept girls wearing little skirts? You are aware of that Uniform fetishism is really strong in the West, right? Schoolgirls, cheerleaders, french maids...all short skirts and breast size can vary depending on whether a man likes a DFC or BB. I think you need to stop with the "most" shit when all you actually mean is "you". Or any game that's being made in Japan has a good story? This is the anime discussion section and I think the topic is about anime stories. Just because you want to get on a video game soapbox doesn't mean everyone else is going to. |
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| I know what you mean but i still get excited for newer series's. I do feel that that more recent anime focuses more heavily on fan service which i don't really feel the need for. |
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gillbobjones said: I know what you mean but i still get excited for newer series's. I do feel that that more recent anime focuses more heavily on fan service which i don't really feel the need for. I always find comments like this amusing and bizarre. Fanservice by definition is put into works in order to satisfy the fans. If you don't like it the question you should ask is "are you actually a fan of that work/genre/artist?" as I can guarantee the fanservice used in the anime is actually satisfying the group of fans the show was meant for. |
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miereneronaile said: Anime_Name said: gillbobjones said: I know what you mean but i still get excited for newer series's. I do feel that that more recent anime focuses more heavily on fan service which i don't really feel the need for. I always find comments like this amusing and bizarre. Fanservice by definition is put into works in order to satisfy the fans. If you don't like it the question you should ask is "are you actually a fan of that work/genre/artist?" as I can guarantee the fanservice used in the anime is actually satisfying the group of fans the show was meant for. You cant do that, tbh. You are probably right in general, but its certainly possible for fan service to be done badly, just like anything else. So you cant really guarantee it is pleasing the people it was aimed at. Pretty minor point, but yaknow. The argument wasn't about quality but rather just the amount that is included. It can easily be argued what works or doesn't work if you or that poster wants to name anime you think has too much fanservice as I can just whip out sales figures that will show which works and which does not. And even if the argument was about what was done badly, the question would be do you mean badly as in "I didn't like it" or "It didn't work for the story". The latter would unsubstantiated bullcrap and the former would just be an opinion...and you know what they say about opinions. You have a talent for spouting totally random stuff and expecting it to matter somehow.. It sounds like he is fresh out of film school and no one will buy his scripts. So he is emo because no one sees value in his genius, avant-garde artsy bullocks of a story. |
Anime_NameAug 11, 2012 3:22 AM
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NNick said: Just look at the western games and their stories, they're better than most of the anime stories. Well, but then again, Anime is made in JAPAN, for Japanese, their culture is different. In your opinion maybe, but I don't really agree with that. Kodomo no jikan, gunslinger girl, Kaiji, The Disappearance of Haruhi Suzumiya and bacanno! all have amazing stories(just to name a few). |
| I haven't liked this whole decade in general or the last 2 years. Theres been a few shows here and there that go above the bar. Something like Mardock Scramble, Death Note, Fate/Zero and Baccano!. Most of the shows are pretty crappy moe stuff though. |
 "The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." -Friedrich Nietzsche |
| The classic words "the old things are always better". Bullshit! The times change, everything change but the people will always have different tastes. |
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