Fate/Zero 2nd Season Episode 5 Discussion

newnar said:
Personally I dislike this episode. This story would'be been better expanded as an OVA or special. It destroys the continuity of the story in F/Z.

newnar said:
Personally I dislike this episode. This story would'be been better expanded as an OVA or special. It destroys the continuity of the story in F/Z.

Valaskjalf said:

Is it me or there seems to be missing lines of dialogue ? Why didn't the father ask his child how he escaped from the vampire(s) ?

HikaruIzumi said:

If you were a father and your beloved son (it was obvious he cared for him a lot) got lost in a town full of vampires, then all of a sudden he would appear safe next to you. Would you seriously waste your time with pointless blabbering aka "How did you run away?" or would you try to get him and yourself away as fast as possible? I'd certainly do the latter. I wouldn't care how he got away, he did, I would only care how to make sure we both would be safe. Especially, with a clear way to get from the island. While they would have talked about nothing, mages/church/vampires might have gotten in and killed both. So why risk it without a reason?

Totentanz said:

Interestingly, Kiritsugu's father appears to bear similarities with Tokiomi Tohsaka as both of them consider searching for the root more important than anything else, with negative outcome for the ones around them.

In both cases it's an error of judgment they made that led to their demise. Just like Tokiomi never fully understood his student Kirei, Kiritsugu's father failed to understand what was truly important to his son, resulting in getting backstabbed by them. His seemingly lack of caring destroyed Kiritsugu's image of his father, whom he believed to be a "good" person, a man who sought to help humanity.

jefba said:
SHARRREHHHH LOL

why can't japanese pronounce the letter L?

Leon-Gun said:
Are you seriously ripping off on a whole country for their inability to use one letter like we do?

jefba said:
SHARRREHHHH LOL

why can't japanese pronounce the letter L?

nothing956 said:
They messed up is this episode the villagers were not dead apostles they were zombies (Named The Dead in the nasuverse.) witch are Familiars of the dead apostle. (In this case Shirley.)

Still I haven't seen them since Tsukihime.

Here is more info regarding The Dead.

ssjokg said:


Whatever was in the thing Shirley took,it must have been really powerful stuff if a bite from a DA turned you into a DA.And usually the rules Nasu created for all these worlds just dont apply like Arturia's case as an irregular Heroic Spirit,the existence of Avenger,70% of Shirou's achievements etc.There always was something that broke the rules so it's not surprising.Or Natalia gave him the most simply explanation she could think....

Leon-Gun said:
I'm thinking she was going for simple. If we're to explain the Dead Apostle ranking and such, The Dead, even though not Dead Apostles themselves, are still familiars of them and said to be even stronger than the actual two lower level Dead Apostle ranks (Ghoul and Living Dead). Shirley is te only Dead Apostle, the rest are just unwitting familiars of Shirley, and since she can't control her power she can't willingly create Ghouls yet either (Ghouls wouldn't ressurect so fast either).

I actually had to go back to the episode to check if it wasn't just the translation that was wonky and lo and behold, she does says "Shito"...several times in fact. She only says Vampire like 2 times then every other mention is "Dead Apostle". This is surprising actually, didn't expect them to make such a slip.

tofei said:
Oh man, I can totally see this episode setting somewhere in any of the 7,107 islands here in the Philippines. The tropical Alimango Island as Shirley explains is indeed a Filipino word for crab, a mud crab to be exact. The presence of the church, which you can find almost anywhere in the country since the Philippines is a predominantly Christian country. That open basketball half court is also a fixture in any typical Filipino town even to the far flung and isolated ones, yup Filipinos are basketball crazy indeed. I could go on but oh well... XD

Ahohime said:
Best episode so far. Thought they were zombies though, not vampires haha.

Lieila said:
Wuah, a new ED by Kalafina.

Zilpzalp said:
WHY the fuck would you KILL your father for that? It is not like he did it on purpose, and Kiritsugu had no reason to believe that as well.

Do not tell me now that he did it because he feared his father might do something like that in the future. That is no reason for murder, especially not for a kid that should feel dependent on his parent.

Zilpzalp said:
WHY the fuck would you KILL your father for that? It is not like he did it on purpose, and Kiritsugu had no reason to believe that as well.

Do not tell me now that he did it because he feared his father might do something like that in the future. That is no reason for murder, especially not for a kid that should feel dependent on his parent.

This episode was filled with idiots (Shirley was just as dumb as Kiritsugu was) and for me, it made F/Z a bit worse. Kiritsugu had no real reason to do what he did, his motives were not even explained on the basis of a child's reasoning. Therefore, this episode felt very, very unrealistic and unnatural.

Zilpzalp said:
WHY the fuck would you KILL your father for that? It is not like he did it on purpose, and Kiritsugu had no reason to believe that as well.

Do not tell me now that he did it because he feared his father might do something like that in the future. That is no reason for murder, especially not for a kid that should feel dependent on his parent.

This episode was filled with idiots (Shirley was just as dumb as Kiritsugu was) and for me, it made F/Z a bit worse. Kiritsugu had no real reason to do what he did, his motives were not even explained on the basis of a child's reasoning. Therefore, this episode felt very, very unrealistic and unnatural.

This whole second season sucked up until this point. The story has potential, the animation is fabulous, and the way the story is told is great at times.
But I just cannot seem to care about the characters. Saber is a dumb, naive bitch in F/Z, Archer is a real faggot, Kirei is as boring as a character can be (but he is unlikeable at the same time), and Kiritsugu IS interesting (I liked him overall as a character), but the screen time he gets is way too little, just like Rider, who was the most important character for me in season one anyway.
All this would not be a problem if they could somehow make me interested in how the characters will develop, but that is not the case, either. Archer, for example, is just an asshole I cannot relate to, and I do not care shit about what he wants to do, which is another opportunity to make ma want to watch this, and another one wasted.

Archers former master was interesting as well, and he was killed. This anime is seriously lacking characters I actually care for, and without that, an anime based on moral conflict and fights. If I do not root for any of the main characters and if I do not care for them, why would I care for their fight?

So far, the second season is 6/10 at best, because the art is pretty.

ssjokg said:


He had all the reasons do believe that.

lets compare Kiritsugu with an other famous parent killer: Lelouch.As much as I like him all the lives he took were because he hated his father and no it doesnt matter that he was 17-18 when he was able to do it,yet no one cares because he saved the world in the end.Kiristsugu choose to kill his father to prevent the same thing.What happened to Shirley made it easier for him to decide that.Lets not compare him with Yagami Light.

yeah right whatever..
Saber is the same if not worse in FSN.He IS a faggot in FSN but still better than any main character in many anime.Kirei: explain please....And when Kiritsugu gets screen time people rage about flashbacks,killing Lancer Team etc.Rider is a very good character but he ISNT more important than all of the above.
You want to relate to ALL of them?Whats the point in that?

Tokiomi was less interesting than any other character in the series(except for Assassin).If you are talking about his magi nobility bullshit, Kayneth was better especially when you put Waver against him since they believe in different things.

Characters you could care for:Kiritsugu since it's pretty obvious what his wish is and the reasons for that,Iri since the end of season one is in bad condition if you didnt notice.Sakura and Kariya.Waver and Rider.

no comment on score.....

BloodRequiem said:


i stopped caring about his opinions as soon as he said kirei is uninteresting and archer is a faggot
its as if he just skipped all their dialogue episodes and went straight for the fighting ones...

kiritsugu is weak thats why he blamed his father for the village's extermination to try to ease the burden on his own consciousness while in reality he could totally have prevented it by killing shirley

ssjokg said:


and yet he says 2nd season sucks?

no point explaining since no shounen anime character would act like that which is what he was looking for.A little kid mature as fuck in seinen anime is a reason to drop it so I am glad that Kiritsugu wasnt as reasonable as characters in shounen anime.

ataraxial said:
I am dissatisfied with Kerry's lack of justification for killing his father.

This also should have been two episodes to explain things more clearly. I thought that it was Shirley who tried to test out the vampire drug independently, but then again, Emiya father seemed to have known what was going to happen somehow...?

ataraxial said:
I am dissatisfied with Kerry's lack of justification for killing his father.

This also should have been two episodes to explain things more clearly. I thought that it was Shirley who tried to test out the vampire drug independently, but then again, Emiya father seemed to have known what was going to happen somehow...?

Selsica said:


His father did know what was going to happen. When Kerry woke up his father asked him if he had been in his workshop. Obviously this was because something was missing, and this missing object was subsequently revealed to be the experimental drug that turns people into Dead Apostles.

There is plenty of justification for killing his father. First, lets look into Kerry and Shirley's relationship. Earlier in the episode Shirley refers to Kerry as "like my younger brother" to which Kerry shows disappointment. This is where we are introduced to Kerry's romantic feelings towards Shirley. It is reinforced later when Kerry gets flustered when talking to Shirley by the lake. Now, with this in mind, after Kerry reveals to his father that Shirley stole the medicine his father shows no remorse or regret. In addition to this when Kerry asks if he will "use him like he used Shirley" instead of outright denying it, he says "Don't be ridiculous, a dead apostle that can't control it's bloodlust is a failure" implying that, in the future, he will indeed experiment on Kerry.

Building on this, the previous line further insinuates Kerry's father's uncaring attitude towards humanity by implying that he will continue these experiments that are so obviously dangerous in the future. Based on this we can draw two conclusions:

1. Half of the reason Kerry killed his father was because of his cold attitude towards the death of Shirley, Kerry's romantic interest.

2. The other reason is that Kerry completely understands the consequences of letting his father live; the death of countless innocent people. With his understanding of these consequences Kerry forms the resolve to stop his father for the good of humanity.

In other words, kill few to save many, the very mantra of the adult Kiritsugu.

rodac said:
But isn't his goal to produce an immortal member of the family who can spend the time necessary to research the root? At some point either he or his son will take the improved drug to obtain immortality. His major concern is that at this time apostles are immortal killing machines (due to their uncontrolled thirst for blood) which will draw all the wrong sort of attention. If he could create an immortal apostle who would control their urges enough to keep the angry mobs of executors and mages from forming, then he would consider the whole process a success.