Re:ZERO -Starting Life in Another World- (light novel)
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Apr 7, 2018 10:12 PM
#1651
Playcool said: bobzanny said: Fuck that was such a good episode, mind=blown. This is how all series should handle characterization and development, a full episode to get everything out in the open, not some little 5 minute scene of "the feels". Rem being the best bro in all of history right there and I love the distinction in Subaru's eyes from this episode and episode 15. Also loved how Subaru just shit on himself for a solid 5 minutes, not too often an author will have is MC be so brutally honest with himself. This was by far the best example of an episode like that that I recall seeing, they really made the right choice going for this Subaru x Emilia x Rem. Dont need to say more. But I will. Ever since the start I took a liking to Emilia, her personality really made her such a sweet character... but seriously why are we calling her MC? And Rem a support? IMO or they are both support or main characters, one is not less than another, Rem has appeared alot more on these episode than Emilia ever did. Rem is love, Rem is life, but so Emilia is. Obviously Rem benefited alot from getting this much spotlight, it really developed her in such an endearing girl~~ I do believe that Emilia will also come true and show that she is more than worth to face Rem as best girls, if only Emilia had more scenes, but the ones she already had really solidified my whole opinon about her. Here there are people arguing Emilia vs Rem, pointless POINTLESS! IMO having both is far better, Emilia can go for main girl and Rem be the mistress, it is too heartless favoring the happiness of one over the another, so I choose both!! Great episode anyway, lets restart from 0! Rem only appears more than Emilia in this arc. But the actual story isn't centered around her at all. The main purpose of her screen time in the 3rd arc was to facilitate Subaru development when got to his lowest point so he could break out of his self-absorb personality and state to his feelings Emilia honestly. Despite how immature he might have act his feelings for Emilia are genuine and Rem knows that which why she pushes him not to give up because despite his flaws he's not worthless as he thinks and Subaru has actual effected lives her, Emilia and everyone else within Roswaal's territory for the better. But he also has stop being tunnel visioned and consider Emilia feelings too even within his own suffering. This is very much a story Subaru and Emilia and how the later gets caught up her troubles but from his POV as it always been from the very beginning, but there are others a long the way that play important role in it. This is also important for Emilia's own development later in the story but Subaru has to change and be more honest with her. This doesn't happen until he's brokendown from his numerous failures in the loops that highlight his flaws and then pieces being picked up by Rem. From Zero ultimately less about Rem's love for him which just a moviating factor for her and more about Subaru facing himself and starting to accept his weakness. Rem's screen time is byproduct of becasue she is only one who he hasn't burned bridges with, but doesn't make her an MC as the story needs to revolve around her rather than just being a sidekick who supports the protagonist. It's same reason why say Puck isn't the lead male character despite supporting Emilia as much Rem does to Subaru. It doesn't really work like that. Subaru really wants to become somebody worthy of Emilia in his mind which why gets jealous others like Julius, the knights etc who have amazing talents and abilities achieve their dreams and be the kind of hero he wants to be. This not claim Rem is not an important character, but she doesn't move the story in the same way Subaru and Emilia do since so much revolves around them both directly and indirectly. But happens primary from his perspective and Rem just happened to be only companion from the mansion here just as Emilia was in Arc 1. That said as point Emilia like a lot of the characters in story are well characterized likable enough she is entirely fleshed out yet like Rem. Same gores for the other characters too. |
Iron_MawApr 8, 2018 1:34 AM
Apr 9, 2018 8:06 AM
#1652
Jagd84 said: Playcool said: bobzanny said: Fuck that was such a good episode, mind=blown. This is how all series should handle characterization and development, a full episode to get everything out in the open, not some little 5 minute scene of "the feels". Rem being the best bro in all of history right there and I love the distinction in Subaru's eyes from this episode and episode 15. Also loved how Subaru just shit on himself for a solid 5 minutes, not too often an author will have is MC be so brutally honest with himself. This was by far the best example of an episode like that that I recall seeing, they really made the right choice going for this Subaru x Emilia x Rem. Dont need to say more. But I will. Ever since the start I took a liking to Emilia, her personality really made her such a sweet character... but seriously why are we calling her MC? And Rem a support? IMO or they are both support or main characters, one is not less than another, Rem has appeared alot more on these episode than Emilia ever did. Rem is love, Rem is life, but so Emilia is. Obviously Rem benefited alot from getting this much spotlight, it really developed her in such an endearing girl~~ I do believe that Emilia will also come true and show that she is more than worth to face Rem as best girls, if only Emilia had more scenes, but the ones she already had really solidified my whole opinon about her. Here there are people arguing Emilia vs Rem, pointless POINTLESS! IMO having both is far better, Emilia can go for main girl and Rem be the mistress, it is too heartless favoring the happiness of one over the another, so I choose both!! Great episode anyway, lets restart from 0! Rem only appears more than Emilia in this arc. But the actual story isn't centered around her at all. The main purpose of her screen time in the 3rd arc was to facilitate Subaru development when got to his lowest point so he could break out of his self-absorb personality and state to his feelings Emilia honestly. Despite how immature he might have act his feelings for Emilia are genuine and Rem knows that which why she pushes him not to give up because despite his flaws he's not worthless as he thinks and Subaru has actual effected lives her, Emilia and everyone else within Roswaal's territory for the better. But he also has stop being tunnel visioned and consider Emilia feelings too even within his own suffering. This is very much a story Subaru and Emilia and how the later gets caught up her troubles but from his POV as it always been from the very beginning, but there are others a long the way that play important role in it. This is also important for Emilia's own development later in the story but Subaru has to change and be more honest with her. This doesn't happen until he's brokendown from his numerous failures in the loops that highlight his flaws and then pieces being picked up by Rem. From Zero ultimately less about Rem's love for him which just a moviating factor for her and more about Subaru facing himself and starting to accept his weakness. Rem's screen time is byproduct of becasue she is only one who he hasn't burned bridges with, but doesn't make her an MC as the story needs to revolve around her rather than just being a sidekick who supports the protagonist. It's same reason why say Puck isn't the lead male character despite supporting Emilia as much Rem does to Subaru. It doesn't really work like that. Subaru really wants to become somebody worthy of Emilia in his mind which why gets jealous others like Julius, the knights etc who have amazing talents and abilities achieve their dreams and be the kind of hero he wants to be. This not claim Rem is not an important character, but she doesn't move the story in the same way Subaru and Emilia do since so much revolves around them both directly and indirectly. But happens primary from his perspective and Rem just happened to be only companion from the mansion here just as Emilia was in Arc 1. That said as point Emilia like a lot of the characters in story are well characterized likable enough she is entirely fleshed out yet like Rem. Same gores for the other characters too. Oh, you that famous Emilia workshipper that I keep encountering around lately on Re:Zero series posts, nice to meet ya~~ About that, I can understand both sides views about things, but in the end I can only judge by what I have seen, and so far it has been more on Rem's side, so I m really hopping to get way more Emilia's. She has been my best girl since the start, Rem IMO only manages to catch up with her in terms of favoritism since she has had way more spotlight recently, and making great use of it, so in a way there is alot to like for Rem and her actions (but like you said before, not long she was butchering Subaru, while Emilia was there to help from the start). I do realize this is a story about Emilia and Subaru and I m digging that, Rem is just that extra bonus that really outperformed herself lately thus becoming a really adorable girl, yet like I said, if one can choose, why not choose both? In the end there are not many episodes left, I really want to see Emilia taking a larger role and screentime again, but is it even possible so late in S1 already?! Also yenpress can go fuck themselves, off topic, they are taking too long to release the volumes, I dont feel like going with the WN, neither I want to wait years to read afterwords of this season's plot. BTW, since you took your time to do your duty, as EMF shipper, let me adress that avatar and forum profile... they are adoringly cute~~ |
Apr 10, 2018 2:07 AM
#1653
Apr 10, 2018 11:58 AM
#1654
Playcool said: Jagd84 said: Playcool said: bobzanny said: Fuck that was such a good episode, mind=blown. This is how all series should handle characterization and development, a full episode to get everything out in the open, not some little 5 minute scene of "the feels". Rem being the best bro in all of history right there and I love the distinction in Subaru's eyes from this episode and episode 15. Also loved how Subaru just shit on himself for a solid 5 minutes, not too often an author will have is MC be so brutally honest with himself. This was by far the best example of an episode like that that I recall seeing, they really made the right choice going for this Subaru x Emilia x Rem. Dont need to say more. But I will. Ever since the start I took a liking to Emilia, her personality really made her such a sweet character... but seriously why are we calling her MC? And Rem a support? IMO or they are both support or main characters, one is not less than another, Rem has appeared alot more on these episode than Emilia ever did. Rem is love, Rem is life, but so Emilia is. Obviously Rem benefited alot from getting this much spotlight, it really developed her in such an endearing girl~~ I do believe that Emilia will also come true and show that she is more than worth to face Rem as best girls, if only Emilia had more scenes, but the ones she already had really solidified my whole opinon about her. Here there are people arguing Emilia vs Rem, pointless POINTLESS! IMO having both is far better, Emilia can go for main girl and Rem be the mistress, it is too heartless favoring the happiness of one over the another, so I choose both!! Great episode anyway, lets restart from 0! Rem only appears more than Emilia in this arc. But the actual story isn't centered around her at all. The main purpose of her screen time in the 3rd arc was to facilitate Subaru development when got to his lowest point so he could break out of his self-absorb personality and state to his feelings Emilia honestly. Despite how immature he might have act his feelings for Emilia are genuine and Rem knows that which why she pushes him not to give up because despite his flaws he's not worthless as he thinks and Subaru has actual effected lives her, Emilia and everyone else within Roswaal's territory for the better. But he also has stop being tunnel visioned and consider Emilia feelings too even within his own suffering. This is very much a story Subaru and Emilia and how the later gets caught up her troubles but from his POV as it always been from the very beginning, but there are others a long the way that play important role in it. This is also important for Emilia's own development later in the story but Subaru has to change and be more honest with her. This doesn't happen until he's brokendown from his numerous failures in the loops that highlight his flaws and then pieces being picked up by Rem. From Zero ultimately less about Rem's love for him which just a moviating factor for her and more about Subaru facing himself and starting to accept his weakness. Rem's screen time is byproduct of becasue she is only one who he hasn't burned bridges with, but doesn't make her an MC as the story needs to revolve around her rather than just being a sidekick who supports the protagonist. It's same reason why say Puck isn't the lead male character despite supporting Emilia as much Rem does to Subaru. It doesn't really work like that. Subaru really wants to become somebody worthy of Emilia in his mind which why gets jealous others like Julius, the knights etc who have amazing talents and abilities achieve their dreams and be the kind of hero he wants to be. This not claim Rem is not an important character, but she doesn't move the story in the same way Subaru and Emilia do since so much revolves around them both directly and indirectly. But happens primary from his perspective and Rem just happened to be only companion from the mansion here just as Emilia was in Arc 1. That said as point Emilia like a lot of the characters in story are well characterized likable enough she is entirely fleshed out yet like Rem. Same gores for the other characters too. Oh, you that famous Emilia workshipper that I keep encountering around lately on Re:Zero series posts, nice to meet ya~~ About that, I can understand both sides views about things, but in the end I can only judge by what I have seen, and so far it has been more on Rem's side, so I m really hopping to get way more Emilia's. She has been my best girl since the start, Rem IMO only manages to catch up with her in terms of favoritism since she has had way more spotlight recently, and making great use of it, so in a way there is alot to like for Rem and her actions (but like you said before, not long she was butchering Subaru, while Emilia was there to help from the start). I do realize this is a story about Emilia and Subaru and I m digging that, Rem is just that extra bonus that really outperformed herself lately thus becoming a really adorable girl, yet like I said, if one can choose, why not choose both? In the end there are not many episodes left, I really want to see Emilia taking a larger role and screentime again, but is it even possible so late in S1 already?! Also yenpress can go fuck themselves, off topic, they are taking too long to release the volumes, I dont feel like going with the WN, neither I want to wait years to read afterwords of this season's plot. BTW, since you took your time to do your duty, as EMF shipper, let me adress that avatar and forum profile... they are adoringly cute~~ Hahaha, Emilia is my favorite character in the series tying with Subaru, but I like Rem a lot too. In fact I like most if not all the characters in this series preferences aside. Re:Zero is a large-scale story, so everyone gets their time in in the limelight, unfortunately because the anime is just an adaptation with a finite number of episodes, sadly not all of it will be seen immediately (crosses fingers for 2nd season). Thanks for compliments about about the avig and sig. mozgow said: I can agree that both Emilia and Rem are great, but where are Beatrice worshippers? ;-) When Arc 4 gets animated they come to know the true joy of Betty. |
Apr 12, 2018 3:21 AM
#1655
to be honest why Natsuki Subaru refused a proposal Rem. I think Rem is the right person as a wife than Emilia, but whose name has fallen in love how else? |
Apr 16, 2018 8:16 PM
#1656
IMTAdrian said: LMAO IM LITERALLY ROFL1/5 dropped this shit |
Aug 30, 2018 2:50 PM
#1657
Wow this episode was really a back to zero for me. First I really didn't like Subaru since the start of the anime. I've always found him very stupid and cringy but now my respect from has just skyrocketed (at least for a moment) as I've never felt so close to an anime character this much. That part with him saying how much useless he is was so relatable that it actually had an emotional impact on me and it kind of went well with how stupid he was at the beginning of the show and I think that this is something that I should hold of this episode in addition to what happened with Rem. Now I understand why people love her so much and yes she is not an overrated waifu at all, she really earned my respect and I think she is the most lovable character in the show but I still don't understand the hate for Emilia. I mean yeah I also wanted to kill Subaru after that "ore wa emilia ga suki da" (even though my respect for him grew after the first part) but come on let's stop being dumb Emilia has nothing to do with that. Actually Emilia is quiet lovable too. |
Sep 19, 2018 4:06 AM
#1658
@mozgow Well, just finished this episode, and as you said, it seems like the turning point. After so many frustrating episodes, I must say that this one was enjoyable episode so far for several reasons: 1. Subaru finally took a good look at his pathetic self. I find that more often than not, an MC who go into self-loathing mode become less likeable, but here every single word he directed towards himself is what I, and probably many other viewers have called him, so my response during his loathing rant wasn't "snap out of it" as with other MCs, but "Yes! That's right! You finally get it! Now go jump off a bridge". The good thing is that it shows that the author knew how many would react, so it is not like he unintentionally made the MC so unlikeable (that would worry me about the rest of). Risky approach though because the thought of dropping did occur 5 episodes ago, and my flatmate, who isn't watching the whole thing also said that he has no intention to watch it based on the bits he has seen while I was watching because of the MC. TBH, the decision to go back to zero alone won't change my mind about him just yet, he has a lot to make up for. The various candidates have pretty much spelled out all his shortcoming (sometime with some tough love thrown in) in previous load state, he may not be given a walkthrough, but he's got quite the cheat sheet and if he don't make something out of all that, I will seriously despair. (Speaking of pride, he has been called that by the Sloth freak in a recent episode right? Little guess, the witch has agents named after the 7 deadly sins and he is one of them) 2. Ah, Rem. I can see why I see she often pop up often amongst well liked characters. Yes she could kick ass before that, but plenty of anime character/maid can do that.. but I admit that this is one of the best anime confession I have seen for a while. Bit VN style. I am still a bit reluctant to put her amongst my list of favourite waifu, largely because I think she is nut to be so into the Subaru that we've all seen.. but I bet her popularity went up greatly after this episode and I could see her entering my list at some point if she trigger a real change in Subaru. -------- I am generally not into shipping wars and at the moment I do not ship anyone with Subaru just because the only thing he deserves right now, is a bastard sword up his bum. But here is how I see the various relationships: - I see Subaru's attraction to Emilia as simple infatuation. She was the first attractive looking girl in the new world who happened to be nice to him. Heck, she is probably the first girl in a while to even pay him any notice so he is going all gaga over her. - Emilia, despite being a much more reasonable person, like Subaru has some insecurities for being a half-elf. She must have been elated to find someone treat her "normally" when they first met. She sees the good in him (that I fail to do *ahem*) and might've liked him more..... if he listened to her sometime. And based on their interactions have evolved, I actually feel like she has a *motherly* kind of affection for him than a romantic one. -> I honestly sense no romantic chemistry between Emilia and Subaru. - I don't think Subaru has real romantic feeling for Rem. He has grown somewhat close to her, perhaps a bit closer than he had in mind to ensure his survival in the last arc, but at this point, he knows that he can count on her. I think that he initially proposed to her thinking she would be "easy" given that he knew that she liked him (though perhaps not to the extent of her confession). - Rem clearly idolises Subaru thanks to him picking up all the choice leading to this from his last reload in the last arc. If this was a game, he'd be solidly locked into the Rem route (and his rejection of her lead to a forever alone bad end; I mean, seriously, asking a girl he'd just rejected to help him get another girl?). Actually I would say that the way she feels for him might be similar to the way Subaru feels for Emilia (to a greater degree).. and similarly unbalanced. Well, like I said, as of this episode I do not think that Subaru deserve either girl. And Rem is unfortunate that the first hero that she came across is Subaru.. but push come to shove I would rather Rem get her first pick than Subaru get his first pick. |
Sep 19, 2018 6:14 AM
#1659
AxBattler said: There were 7 witches (one for each deadly sin) and there are (or should be) 7 Sin Archbishops.(Speaking of pride, he has been called that by the Sloth freak in a recent episode right? Little guess, the witch has agents named after the 7 deadly sins and he is one of them) As Betelgeuse said, the position for Pride is vacant and Subaru might be the Pride. |
Sep 22, 2018 2:44 PM
#1660
mozgow said: AxBattler said: There were 7 witches (one for each deadly sin) and there are (or should be) 7 Sin Archbishops.(Speaking of pride, he has been called that by the Sloth freak in a recent episode right? Little guess, the witch has agents named after the 7 deadly sins and he is one of them) As Betelgeuse said, the position for Pride is vacant and Subaru might be the Pride. Hm, I was rewatching some episodes of this anime this weekend and that does seem plausible, given how Betelguese constantly harps about it. Not to mention that his chosen land-dragon Patrasche is the most prideful breed (ok, this might be too much of a stretch to relate two things, haha) A little off-topic, but talking of Betelguese, is it me or do his finger biting antics have reason behind all the madness? In the anime... ...That dude seemed to grow an Unseen Hand for every finger he chewed, after he got upset that Subaru was able to see the hands, in the previous episode. To me, it seems like any trigger for enhancing the powers bestowed by the Witch revolves around inflicting bodily harm on self. For eg : The witch cultists chewing fingers or contorting their bodies into odd positions. Or in the later episode when we had Betelguese slamming his head onto a rock multiple times and ejaculating a full load of Unseen Hands to attack Subaru xD Even Subaru's power is kind of like that isn't it? Ultimate harm via death. On the plus side, I guess his ability to retain memories from previous muliple timelines gets enhanced each time he plops dead..maybe. |
KreatorXSep 22, 2018 2:55 PM
Truly a Divine Comedy |
Sep 22, 2018 3:28 PM
#1661
@KreatorX I've never thought about it this way. It might be the case but it's not clearly stated, even in the LN. What's clear is the fact that every time Subaru dies he gets more of "Witch's blessing". The first time he meet Betelgeuse he was not able to see his unseen hands. But when he meet him the next time he was able to see it. In the LN he gets even more "Witch's blessing" :-) |
Oct 5, 2018 1:43 PM
#1662
al-birny said: Creepy_Noire_fan said: al-birny said: Creepy_Noire_fan said: wow some people are really trying hard to bash on this show... I know , it's not the best but it's actually very good. you got a decent explanation on why he's not a OP MC (like kirito) you know why he was acting the way he was! you guys are saying that the scene was too long but i'm 100% sure you would have torn it apart if it lasted 5 mins. there is no explanation why subaru not OP like kirito, maybe in the future but not until now. or maybe he just cant use his own power, in my view this episode just explain about his behavior not power. but then RBD is enough to be considered OP and its not explained yet. The reason he has RbD is because of the Witch of Envy and she is also the one placing the "savepoints", though it seems that her only criteria is Subaru dying in the future, as we find out at the end of Arc 3, when the "savepoint" is updated to a position where unwanted consequences are "saved". The reason why the Witch of Envy transported him to that world also has yet to be revealed and is one of the series' big mysteries |
Oct 5, 2018 4:21 PM
#1663
AvidAnimeViewer said: This episode is one of the reasons this is probably the best deconstruction of the reincarnation/new world genre out there. I've read tons of web novels and light novels where far too often does the protagonist get sent to another world and becomes OP in every category. Even if they have a struggle in the beginning, like Tate no Yuusha or Arifureta, they quickly overcome it with their own ridiculously rising strength and usually spend the rest of the time living the good life. They get a harem, actually have relationships with them (most web novel MC's aren't oblivious or pussies when it comes to women), save the world, and live the good life. Re:Zero is what would happen if a real person got sent to a fantasy world and not become OP. Subaru isn't inherently smart or powerful, he can only do what he can. But in a world he knows nothing about, where everything is beyond the bounds of his old world, he will inevitably run into problems. And just because he's the main character doesn't mean help or strength will magically come to him. He has to work and persevere to accomplish goals which in other series with OP MC's would be easy tasks. It's nice that this series is showing that despite it being another world, it's still real life. If you didn't do anything in your previous world, you probably won't be able to do anything in a new one either. The only choice is to change, and changing isn't easy. You have to go through a lot to finally learn something and change yourself, which is the most important thing Subaru needs to do right now. And this episode forced him to take a big step forwards. THIS. this is the theme of Re:Zero and where it kicks the ass of pretty much every isekai light novel. not to mention that Tappei made sure that the lives of the supporting didn't revolve around Subaru, which makes the world feel more alive and gives opportunities for spinoffs |
Oct 5, 2018 4:52 PM
#1664
leezodne said: A nice ep but this is not what I was looking for when I started following this show... But I definitely loved the effort the creators put in making everything seem to 'glow' especially in the characters' facial expressions (I started realizing it from Ep 15). Anyway, I didn't see anyone mention Mitrospeed (AKA Essay-kun) in this thread, but he writes comments for certain shows in another site and I just want everyone else to read his thoughts about it. He provides deep enlightenment depending on the readers of his "work." Well here it is, the episode with the title drop "From Zero" First of all let me get the scene prior to Subaru’s death out of the way. There are multiple important things to note. First off Puck seems to know Satella or at least has witnessed when she destroyed half of the world. It also seems like Satella could use the same ability as Petelgeuse but on a whole new level. Yes she could easily use about 2000 of these hands and they were enormous. Then Puck goes on with something that is very interesting. He says that death is not a punishment for the likes of Petelgeuse, this is why he hates all of them ( We can assume that he means either the cult or the archbishops ). This could hint towards two things; immortality or insanity to a point where they don’t fear but desire death. The fact that Petelgeuse speaks of a reunion later on supports the idea of immortality. Puck then explains Subaru his 3 sins. Firstly he broke a promise with Emilia. In episode 12 and 13 we could see that Emilia took the idea of a promise very seriously, more than it would be for us. Since Spirit art user’s magic is based on the idea of a promise, they weigh it more than any other proof of trust. Once you break a promise to them, you destroy all your trust to them. This should give the consequences of Subaru’s actions and Emilia’s decision a lot more weight. Secondly the objected Emilia’s wish to stay in the capital. There not a lot to say to this. While it wasn’t a promise, it certainly was something Subaru should’ve respected, especially if we look at the outcome of things. And at last he "let her die". Personally I think parts of that phrase had also something that said "You killed her" in it. Eventually wee see Subaru’s existence crumble while he hears a fanatic laugh that reminds him of Petelgeuse. He actually thinks it is him until he realizes it is him who laughs like a madman. He laughs over his decision, over his personality, over his despicable way of dying, over his entire existence. We know that he absolutely hates the Cult and especially Petelgeuse, so when he hears his laughs all he can think about is hatred. The fact that he himself laughs like Petelgeuse is expressing how much he hates himself. He has become, no his entire existence is exactly what he despises so much. Now we enter the "From Zero" chapter and everything from that point on is adapted 1:1. Every single phrase, no every single word that appears in this scene is like that in the source material ( translation aside of course ). It can’t get more faithful than that. Then the conversation starts. I won’t address every single line, otherwise we I would be until midnight so please understand. At first Subaru seems certainly upbeat, well except of the empty and tired look in his eyes. What he’s basically saying is that no one ever expected anything from him. Everyone around him told him that at some point but he was too stubborn to accept it because he felt like he had to do something to not be judged, so that no one could say „Look at him, he didn’t do anything, hell he didn’t even try to help“. Little does he know that the girl standing in front of him is expecting the most from him and she does love it when he tries his hardest. Then Subaru proposes to run away with Rem. This is where the alternate reality, the so called "IF-Chapter" comes in. It depicts an alternate scenario in which Rem accepted to run away with him and they leave everything behind. Rem left her sister behind to be slaughtered and neglected her duties entirely. Subaru left Emilia and the villagers to die. He also didn’t stop Puck from rampaging the world. I won’t tell you how this story develops, so simply purchase it once it’s out even though I’m sure someone has already fan translated it. Subaru faced his incapability and realizes that this way, this entire kingdom is not where he belongs to. All of his decision will only lead to more suffering and he had enough. For the sake of his own sanity he pulled the emergency line which is running away. He asks Rem to decide between him and the others clearly making himself the outsider. He needs a purpose in his life that is not chasing after the impossible so he lowers his goals and makes Rem his purpose in life. He can life a normal life as a merchant and have a family, for that he is good enough but he doesn’t have what it needs for more. He wants to devote himself to something that even he as a powerless person can do. Rem declines and she does that with a line that hits deep. Recall episode 11 and how Subaru said that they should laugh if they talk about the future, that they should be fanatic like demons. Did Subaru smile for one second when he talked about their future? No, he didn’t and this is reason enough for Rem that this is not what Subaru truly wants and it’s also not the best for him. She realizes that he doesn't want to live with her out of love but out of desperation, no he wants to use her as a chance to run away. What she does next is something that makes her such a beautiful person. She starts to talk about her version of this ideal future she dreams of, but do both smile? No. Instead Subaru is plunged more and more into the sadness since he can’t embrace her idea of their future with a smile like she does. She goes on that if he would embrace that future with a smile instead of a face full of tears and despair she would accept it with everything she has. But seeing how Subaru doesn’t embrace their future like that gives her the certainty that this is the wrong choice for him. If she accepts, she will leave behind the Subaru that told her to look forward to their future with a smile and put all the weight of her own desires on a Subaru who asked her for this with tears in his eyes and a look of pain. She put her own desires and dreams behind the wellbeing of the person in front of her and that is admirable. Once Rem stops talking about a dream world which would be perfect but returns to reality and the situation at hand, the flashbacks of the horrific scenes come back to him. He is still traumatized and a mentally broken person so confronting a broken person with the impulse of their psychological suffering is not good. Still Subaru has given up, he doesn’t want to experience any pain or suffering anymore. Then Rem says something that might seem like a slight misstep on her part but it’s Subaru who jumps the gun, and honestly I can’t blame him. How often do we not let someone finish their sentence in a discussion and jump to conclusions? To him just now Rem said that he shouldn’t take the easy way out and just give up, the thing is she has no idea what he has suffered through. In fact that act of giving up was the most difficult decision he has done so far, because it goes against this facade he has built up over the course of 17 years. And what Rem starts to praise is Subaru’s wrong personality he has created in order to justify his existence as a person and hide who he actually is. He has lived 17 years in another world where Rem had no way to see his real self. "I have no strength, but I want it all. I have no knowledge, but all I do is dream. There is nothing I can do, but I struggle in vain!" He wants, he desires but he doesn’t have the means to achieve it and it’s completely his fault. And for this he hates himself. He’s basically a person that can’t back his wishes up with actions. And to support all this we get a small insight on Subaru’s backstory. He has never achieved anything his life that is worthy of mention. He had the time and possibilities but never took the chance. This gives the phrase "You’re truly slothful" are whole new meaning and this sentence from Puck and Petelgeuse might have given him the realization he needed. What Subaru experiences now is what some people have in their mid twenties or late thirties, what am I saying it happens in every age group. It’s basically a existential crisis, he never took the chance and now he is paying the price for it in a more horrific way than anyone could imagine. Because not only does he himself have to pay for his rotten character that wasted chance upon chance, other people also suffer for it. Even if it is reseted, these people still experienced the pain. This might have gone past some people because Subaru mentions this really subtly but "a new chance" is what he expected from this world. There is your answer on why Subaru never asked how he could get home or even thought about it. Here he thought his past didn’t matter, he could start from zero and do something with his life. Because of that he was so eager to do everything there was to do because he was haunted by a major inferiority complex caused by 17 wasted years. It’s almost like a shadow followed him that became heavier and heavier the longer he was in this world. In the end he has to face the reality. Not even in this world, not even in this supposedly second chance he can escape from the mistakes of a past life. He can’t be a different person without accepting who he really is. Progress stems from acceptance, acceptance stems from realization, realization stems from experiencing the consequences of your faults. What he did in this world was neglecting who he really is and pretending to try so that he could justify himself. So that he could "hey, at least I tried unlike in the past" but overall it was only for this purpose and not actually trying to save others. He didn’t try for his goal but he tried to have a proper excuse for not achieving said goal. Rem then goes on on the things she loves about him, the things that made this supposedly pretending version of him so wonderful to him. What Rem does next is extremely important. She teaches him to consider the thoughts and perspectives of other people. If you recall episode 12, 13, 14, 17 and many other. They all had one thing in common. Subaru forced his perspective of multiple lifes onto the people that experienced none of that. Not only that he also didn’t consider the feelings and thoughts of others, mainly Emilia and he doesn’t consider Rem’s feelings right now. It hurts her that he tries to talk the Subaru bad who she loves so much. And then we get major insight on Rem’s character. We have to remind ourselves that no one else except her sister showed her true and earnest feelings. The thing is her sister is the person she has probably the most problematic relationship with due to her inferiority complex ever since that night. All this time until episode 11 she has been stuck in time with the guilt of smiling in the moment her sister lost everything. But it was Subaru who freed her from this and made her time running again, he’s the first person to genuinely care for her aside from Ram. And now she is willing to return the favor hundred, no thousand times over. The next scene shows him kneeling in front of the prove that he has achieved something in this world. Rem’s existence and emotions are the prove that even though he didn’t manage to achieve anything, he still saved this girl here and this prove sparked this determination in him. This and the fact that he has someone who is willing to follow him wherever he goes as long as he embraces it with a smile. Well now something comes that some people will be salty over but sorry if you still watch this with your shipping goggles on then you’ll what this story is trying to tell you. It’s not the declaration of feelings that is in the center here but how a small achievement can spark a tiny flame that will never vanish anymore no matter what. Yes Subaru says he still loves Emilia but we have to live with it. If you ever expect something like romantic feelings to make to be rational, then you haven’t been in love yet. You can’t control it, you can’t turn it off and you can’t magically swap between two people. So in that sense him still loving Emilia is a perfectly natural emotional state. Honestly everything else would have been weird and might have come across as unrealistic. Personally I admire Subaru that he was truly honest to Rem in this moment and didn’t hesitate to tell her the truth. If she follows him then she should do this with all the cards laid out. And then Subaru asks of her to help her and guess what? He does it with a smile, probably the most honest one we’ve seen so far. Really when he laughed, I couldn’t help but feel so relieved. Rem accepts as she wants to support a future he looks at with a smile. And with that we start from zero. The true story of Natsuki Subaru starts. And this guys concludes the prologue of the story…yes all this was the prologue and now the story really starts, I mean we’re about 10% in. And please don’t think the author forgot all the dark stuff in these past episodes. This has neither become a shounen now ( I honestly had to laugh at this claim ) nor does the story now drift of into dreamland ala Dora the explorer style. Just let yourself be told that the story now really starts. Anyway, still continuing this show since it was just a prologue to everything... >w> (and no more traps pls) Mitrospeed, to no ones surprise, hits the nail on the head and spells it out for the people that STILL hasn't gotten the theme of this story |
Oct 7, 2018 6:14 PM
#1665
hmm... I finally picked this one again after stopping watching it at episode 16 when it was coming out. And hey I rewatched from ep 15 all the way till here... now I understand why Rem best girl exploded so much two years ago because after this episode ended I feel like dropping this shit yet again. Restart from zero you say... bullshit... from the very beginning the author set the pre-defined main love interest for MC and no matter what happens in the series, he will not change it. I hate when stories do it, especially stories that try to push secondary heroines and their story arcs in love direction but in the end, no matter what happened in their arc, the MC stays the same... Oh well... I am sure I will pick this up again once my rage about this dies out. Sigh... I really wanted to clean this up from my watching list. |
Oct 20, 2018 1:35 PM
#1666
This dialogue was the best scene on the anime so far, in fact i guess this is my favorite episode so far, really emotional, 10/10. |
Oct 20, 2018 1:35 PM
#1667
This dialogue was the best scene on the anime so far, in fact i guess this is my favorite episode so far, really emotional, 10/10. |
Nov 2, 2018 7:39 PM
#1668
top 10 longest presidential speeches and remember i love emilia |
Nov 6, 2018 6:39 AM
#1669
Definitely my favorite episode so far Rem was already my favorite character at this point, but this episode just made me like her even more She didn't give up on Subaru, she managed to convince him not to give up, she really loves him so much, even after Subaru rejected her, she still stuck with him I would've never imagine they would have such a close relationship when I first saw Rem brutally killing Subaru I don't hate Subaru for still loving Emilia He loves him, because she met her earlier than Rem, and because she saved him even when she was in a hurry, since she got robbed But I'm pretty sure Rem is just as important to Subaru as Emilia, or even more important Remember in episode 14 when everyone in the village got murdered? First thing Subaru was worried about was Rem, not Emilia He kept saying "Rem", not "Emilia" Their relationship is similar to Okabe's and Mayuri's in Steins;Gate Okabe loves Kurisu, but Mayuri is much more important to him I think it's the same here, Subaru loves Emilia, but Rem is more important to him |
-Aincrad-Nov 6, 2018 6:44 AM
Dec 30, 2018 1:42 AM
#1670
-Aincrad- said: Their relationship is similar to Okabe's and Mayuri's in Steins;Gate Okabe loves Kurisu, but Mayuri is much more important to him I think it's the same here, Subaru loves Emilia, but Rem is more important to him Interesting point about the Steins;gate thing... Didn't quite look at it like that. I personally took more of a liking to Kurisu, although Mayuri was one of my favorite characters throughout. Although as a matter of personal opinion, Rem is still far more superior to Emilia in my eyes. So far the anime has only seemed to make Emilia look more and more useless. Don't get me wrong, I still very much like her as a character. But Rem has consistently proven more loyal, useful, caring, etc. She's badass, is willing to sacrifice herself, and in my opinion holds a lot more depth as a character than Emilia. And to top it off, she seems to be the only one Subaru can truly count on, the one that can bring him back from his hopeless state, as proven by her speech in this episode. It just seems, at this point, like Emilia puts on the 'I care about everyone' act but truly only does things to the benefit of herself. I suppose this anime cannot just be about who loves who, as this isn't a harem (and I'm glad it isn't), but god damn if I wasn't extremely disappointed by Subaru's "I love Emilia." All in all, Rem will still be my best girl, and I suppose if Subaru won't have her, I will. |
Dec 31, 2018 2:09 PM
#1671
P46 said: -Aincrad- said: Their relationship is similar to Okabe's and Mayuri's in Steins;Gate Okabe loves Kurisu, but Mayuri is much more important to him I think it's the same here, Subaru loves Emilia, but Rem is more important to him Interesting point about the Steins;gate thing... Didn't quite look at it like that. I personally took more of a liking to Kurisu, although Mayuri was one of my favorite characters throughout. Although as a matter of personal opinion, Rem is still far more superior to Emilia in my eyes. So far the anime has only seemed to make Emilia look more and more useless. Don't get me wrong, I still very much like her as a character. But Rem has consistently proven more loyal, useful, caring, etc. She's badass, is willing to sacrifice herself, and in my opinion holds a lot more depth as a character than Emilia. And to top it off, she seems to be the only one Subaru can truly count on, the one that can bring him back from his hopeless state, as proven by her speech in this episode. It just seems, at this point, like Emilia puts on the 'I care about everyone' act but truly only does things to the benefit of herself. I suppose this anime cannot just be about who loves who, as this isn't a harem (and I'm glad it isn't), but god damn if I wasn't extremely disappointed by Subaru's "I love Emilia." All in all, Rem will still be my best girl, and I suppose if Subaru won't have her, I will. Rem has literally done all of that because loves Subaru while Emilia has look out for him throughout the show without needing to have special feelings for him more than most people would have. This is an very important point to Subaru. Her actions have given him a home allowed him to find stable employment, saved him against the thugs, than mabreasts which spent all night healing his life-threaning injuries, confrnoted him emotionally when he was lossing it from despair, who took his side when people acccused him of murder despite contrary, had sacifice something important to get him treatment from Ferris and still bothered to help in midst of their fight. Yet not onky are some people acting she didn't do anything for him, Rem killing and torturing did not happen, but are shocked he picked someone who has supported him throughout show, and not another girl who happened to save him recently. Does it really make any sense for him to drop not only one who saved hom several times, but has validated his existance and feelings long before another did just because likes him? People are only saying he should love Rem more because of dramatics around her deaths and ignoring history why he's involved in this in first place what even allow hom to meet Rem and everyone else. Emilia did for him things that Rem never could never have done and had they not happened, ep 18 and whole of Arc 3 would not exist. Emilia does not need to be loyal or love someone for that person to fall her, that would and should happen because of who she is and what exactly she stands for or doesn't. That were Subaru is right now and why Rem confession would be no cause for him to love her over Emilia. He appreciates Rem feelings, but that not what he looking for in first place. As he said in ep 25 he wants to be Emilia's strength partly as way to repay his debts to her, because of those debts are what spawn his feeling for her. He wantd do for him what Rem has been for him fir very similar reasons and putting ehatI said context Subaru's response complete sense Rem has been well aware of that. The first half of this show didn't disappear making everything prior episode 15 stop matteting. Subaru is not operating under such tunnel vision. |
Iron_MawDec 31, 2018 2:25 PM
Dec 31, 2018 2:20 PM
#1672
-Aincrad- said: Remember in episode 14 when everyone in the village got murdered? First thing Subaru was worried about was Rem, not Emilia He kept saying "Rem", not "Emilia" Actually your wrong on this one point. The first thing out of his mouth was going to be Emilia, but he stopped himself because he didn't want/could not imagine she was dead. So he wss saying Rem instead because it was easier for him to accept her death. Subaru doesn't truly care for her nearly as much as Emilia until around ep 15. Otherwise this pretty good comparison. |
Dec 31, 2018 3:43 PM
#1673
P46 said: -Aincrad- said: Their relationship is similar to Okabe's and Mayuri's in Steins;Gate Okabe loves Kurisu, but Mayuri is much more important to him I think it's the same here, Subaru loves Emilia, but Rem is more important to him Interesting point about the Steins;gate thing... Didn't quite look at it like that. I personally took more of a liking to Kurisu, although Mayuri was one of my favorite characters throughout. Although as a matter of personal opinion, Rem is still far more superior to Emilia in my eyes. So far the anime has only seemed to make Emilia look more and more useless. Don't get me wrong, I still very much like her as a character. But Rem has consistently proven more loyal, useful, caring, etc. She's badass, is willing to sacrifice herself, and in my opinion holds a lot more depth as a character than Emilia. And to top it off, she seems to be the only one Subaru can truly count on, the one that can bring him back from his hopeless state, as proven by her speech in this episode. It just seems, at this point, like Emilia puts on the 'I care about everyone' act but truly only does things to the benefit of herself. I suppose this anime cannot just be about who loves who, as this isn't a harem (and I'm glad it isn't), but god damn if I wasn't extremely disappointed by Subaru's "I love Emilia." All in all, Rem will still be my best girl, and I suppose if Subaru won't have her, I will. Not here to change your personal opinion on who best-grill is but the series requires you to sit in the POV of other characters and include all events to understand them properly, not just from Subaru's POV. None of the characters are useless when you piece the narrative together. Both Rem and Emilia served their form and function in the adaptation, pushing Subaru's character developments in the right direction. Apart from whatever @Jagd84 said, Emilia put a stop to Rem's murdering spree during the nights, after that lap pillow scene after she calls Rem and tells him that this guy is a good person. Had it not been for her fight with Subaru in episode 13, Subaru would not have started his chain of character development which pulled Rem into the foray. I mean, she literally called out Subaru for the way he had been behaving but Subaru was not in the right mental state to reflect on himself at that point. His nice-guy complex was just shattered by her in one verbal confrontation. The boi was shook. Mind you, Emilia's biggest strength is empathy, not loyalty. Furthermore, she is someone who considers Subaru as an precious person as he supposedly happens to be the first human/friend in her life who didn't shun her away. There are 3 separate instances in the anime where she herself took the initiative and approached Subaru to tell her everything because she wants to know why he goes through so much pain around her, but he was stopped every time by Satella due to plot-device reasons. In her eyes, she is placing trust in a person but that same person is not returning a similar level of trust in her. Their fight in episode 13 was about that. She wants to understand Subaru why he acts without self-preservation around her but he won't/can't tell her. If you choose to view things from Subaru's POV only, then the whole Lugunica Royal Family succession is a meaningless debacle. All of the politics is pointless. It isn't however meaningless to Emilia nor any of the opposition camps. The point being, the world doesn't revolve around Subaru. Ironically enough, Subaru's POV makes it seem that the world revolves around him by virtue of the resets. If you equate usefulness of a character (via means of how many times they went killing themselves off for someone) to depth of a character, then sure, Emilia has no depth compared to Rem, because Emilia was getting killed off far away from Subaru (and once near him, killed by yours lovingly, Satella). If you compare how much one cares for another, ignoring the care Emilia gave to Subaru in the mansion, she convinced her opposition Crusch Camp twice to ensure Subaru doesn't end up killing himself, since she cannot heal his gate nor can she have him around her anymore for his safety. She low-key slips in her spell woven concealing cloak with Subaru to ensure he hides his presence from danger. Sure, she hasn't actively gone out of her way and killed herself for Subaru's sake. That gap is filled by Rem because Emilia knows Subaru would just act unstable around her otherwise. Consider giving a look through her POV for a change, there are two main characters in the story. Emilia's goal is not just to be of use to Subaru, it is a bigger goal of introducing a new political order into Lugunica. Lastly, you should be impressed with Subaru's rejection of Rem, as far as the anime is concerned :P . He understood that he was undeserving of such feelings and it is a very dick move to return her feelings when his true heart lies for someone else. In short, he did not want to lead her on. I would have been disappointed if he let loose a shameless "I love you Rem" and it would also hold little meaning to Rem rejecting his offer to run away with him. The other point of that confession was to let Subaru know he was capable of change. Just like she herself was given the same advice by Subaru in episode 11. Favour returned. As for badass, I presume you imply battle prowess and Emilia is plenty strong in that, except for that serious-face "thanks for being defeated, villain" XD (wut?) like Emilia puts on the 'I care about everyone' act but truly only does things to the benefit of herself Quite correct, and this is something she admits to later on in episode 25 during her conversation with Subaru. Emilia has this weird way of looking at things despite being a highly empathetic person. She views her own actions as a selfish way of gaining a positive image among people. |
KreatorXDec 31, 2018 4:25 PM
Truly a Divine Comedy |
Jan 1, 2019 12:06 AM
#1674
KreatorX said: P46 said: -Aincrad- said: Their relationship is similar to Okabe's and Mayuri's in Steins;Gate Okabe loves Kurisu, but Mayuri is much more important to him I think it's the same here, Subaru loves Emilia, but Rem is more important to him Interesting point about the Steins;gate thing... Didn't quite look at it like that. I personally took more of a liking to Kurisu, although Mayuri was one of my favorite characters throughout. Although as a matter of personal opinion, Rem is still far more superior to Emilia in my eyes. So far the anime has only seemed to make Emilia look more and more useless. Don't get me wrong, I still very much like her as a character. But Rem has consistently proven more loyal, useful, caring, etc. She's badass, is willing to sacrifice herself, and in my opinion holds a lot more depth as a character than Emilia. And to top it off, she seems to be the only one Subaru can truly count on, the one that can bring him back from his hopeless state, as proven by her speech in this episode. It just seems, at this point, like Emilia puts on the 'I care about everyone' act but truly only does things to the benefit of herself. I suppose this anime cannot just be about who loves who, as this isn't a harem (and I'm glad it isn't), but god damn if I wasn't extremely disappointed by Subaru's "I love Emilia." All in all, Rem will still be my best girl, and I suppose if Subaru won't have her, I will. Not here to change your personal opinion on who best-grill is but the series requires you to sit in the POV of other characters and include all events to understand them properly, not just from Subaru's POV. None of the characters are useless when you piece the narrative together. Both Rem and Emilia served their form and function in the adaptation, pushing Subaru's character developments in the right direction. Apart from whatever @Jagd84 said, Emilia put a stop to Rem's murdering spree during the nights, after that lap pillow scene after she calls Rem and tells him that this guy is a good person. Had it not been for her fight with Subaru in episode 13, Subaru would not have started his chain of character development which pulled Rem into the foray. I mean, she literally called out Subaru for the way he had been behaving but Subaru was not in the right mental state to reflect on himself at that point. His nice-guy complex was just shattered by her in one verbal confrontation. The boi was shook. Mind you, Emilia's biggest strength is empathy, not loyalty. Furthermore, she is someone who considers Subaru as an precious person as he supposedly happens to be the first human/friend in her life who didn't shun her away. There are 3 separate instances in the anime where she herself took the initiative and approached Subaru to tell her everything because she wants to know why he goes through so much pain around her, but he was stopped every time by Satella due to plot-device reasons. In her eyes, she is placing trust in a person but that same person is not returning a similar level of trust in her. Their fight in episode 13 was about that. She wants to understand Subaru why he acts without self-preservation around her but he won't/can't tell her. If you choose to view things from Subaru's POV only, then the whole Lugunica Royal Family succession is a meaningless debacle. All of the politics is pointless. It isn't however meaningless to Emilia nor any of the opposition camps. The point being, the world doesn't revolve around Subaru. Ironically enough, Subaru's POV makes it seem that the world revolves around him by virtue of the resets. If you equate usefulness of a character (via means of how many times they went killing themselves off for someone) to depth of a character, then sure, Emilia has no depth compared to Rem, because Emilia was getting killed off far away from Subaru (and once near him, killed by yours lovingly, Satella). If you compare how much one cares for another, ignoring the care Emilia gave to Subaru in the mansion, she convinced her opposition Crusch Camp twice to ensure Subaru doesn't end up killing himself, since she cannot heal his gate nor can she have him around her anymore for his safety. She low-key slips in her spell woven concealing cloak with Subaru to ensure he hides his presence from danger. Sure, she hasn't actively gone out of her way and killed herself for Subaru's sake. That gap is filled by Rem because Emilia knows Subaru would just act unstable around her otherwise. Consider giving a look through her POV for a change, there are two main characters in the story. Emilia's goal is not just to be of use to Subaru, it is a bigger goal of introducing a new political order into Lugunica. Lastly, you should be impressed with Subaru's rejection of Rem, as far as the anime is concerned :P . He understood that he was undeserving of such feelings and it is a very dick move to return her feelings when his true heart lies for someone else. In short, he did not want to lead her on. I would have been disappointed if he let loose a shameless "I love you Rem" and it would also hold little meaning to Rem rejecting his offer to run away with him. The other point of that confession was to let Subaru know he was capable of change. Just like she herself was given the same advice by Subaru in episode 11. Favour returned. As for badass, I presume you imply battle prowess and Emilia is plenty strong in that, except for that serious-face "thanks for being defeated, villain" XD (wut?) like Emilia puts on the 'I care about everyone' act but truly only does things to the benefit of herself Quite correct, and this is something she admits to later on in episode 25 during her conversation with Subaru. Emilia has this weird way of looking at things despite being a highly empathetic person. She views her own actions as a selfish way of gaining a positive image among people. Also another thing that's worth pointing out is that while I was re-watching the series through the dub it was mentioned in Ep 10 that Puck and Betty kept the fact that Subaru was still cursed and would die in half a day from her because they knew she would have done same thing Rem did by going into forest doing near impossible of slaying every Wolgarm she could find and possibly get herself in same predicament as Rem to stop the curse. Again Emilia sure wasn't in love him, but there you can say she didn't care about him a lot and depending on circumstances she certainly put her life on line for him since as far she is concerned Subaru too is her benefactor. She kept certain amount of distance from him others because she has complexes and hardships she has internalized about herself other people. They kind of people who care about each a lot but end talking past each other due to not being same wavelength at times due to them still hiding things. Not to mention Subaru actually has quite a Savior/hero complex towards her as shown here for example. This scene is in the anime but its less empathized compared to manga panel. BTW, Happy New Year! |
Iron_MawJan 1, 2019 7:07 PM
Jan 1, 2019 12:49 AM
#1675
KreatorX said: P46 said: -Aincrad- said: Their relationship is similar to Okabe's and Mayuri's in Steins;Gate Okabe loves Kurisu, but Mayuri is much more important to him I think it's the same here, Subaru loves Emilia, but Rem is more important to him Interesting point about the Steins;gate thing... Didn't quite look at it like that. I personally took more of a liking to Kurisu, although Mayuri was one of my favorite characters throughout. Although as a matter of personal opinion, Rem is still far more superior to Emilia in my eyes. So far the anime has only seemed to make Emilia look more and more useless. Don't get me wrong, I still very much like her as a character. But Rem has consistently proven more loyal, useful, caring, etc. She's badass, is willing to sacrifice herself, and in my opinion holds a lot more depth as a character than Emilia. And to top it off, she seems to be the only one Subaru can truly count on, the one that can bring him back from his hopeless state, as proven by her speech in this episode. It just seems, at this point, like Emilia puts on the 'I care about everyone' act but truly only does things to the benefit of herself. I suppose this anime cannot just be about who loves who, as this isn't a harem (and I'm glad it isn't), but god damn if I wasn't extremely disappointed by Subaru's "I love Emilia." All in all, Rem will still be my best girl, and I suppose if Subaru won't have her, I will. Not here to change your personal opinion on who best-grill is but the series requires you to sit in the POV of other characters and include all events to understand them properly, not just from Subaru's POV. None of the characters are useless when you piece the narrative together. Both Rem and Emilia served their form and function in the adaptation, pushing Subaru's character developments in the right direction. Apart from whatever @Jagd84 said, Emilia put a stop to Rem's murdering spree during the nights, after that lap pillow scene after she calls Rem and tells him that this guy is a good person. Had it not been for her fight with Subaru in episode 13, Subaru would not have started his chain of character development which pulled Rem into the foray. I mean, she literally called out Subaru for the way he had been behaving but Subaru was not in the right mental state to reflect on himself at that point. His nice-guy complex was just shattered by her in one verbal confrontation. The boi was shook. Mind you, Emilia's biggest strength is empathy, not loyalty. Furthermore, she is someone who considers Subaru as an precious person as he supposedly happens to be the first human/friend in her life who didn't shun her away. There are 3 separate instances in the anime where she herself took the initiative and approached Subaru to tell her everything because she wants to know why he goes through so much pain around her, but he was stopped every time by Satella due to plot-device reasons. In her eyes, she is placing trust in a person but that same person is not returning a similar level of trust in her. Their fight in episode 13 was about that. She wants to understand Subaru why he acts without self-preservation around her but he won't/can't tell her. If you choose to view things from Subaru's POV only, then the whole Lugunica Royal Family succession is a meaningless debacle. All of the politics is pointless. It isn't however meaningless to Emilia nor any of the opposition camps. The point being, the world doesn't revolve around Subaru. Ironically enough, Subaru's POV makes it seem that the world revolves around him by virtue of the resets. If you equate usefulness of a character (via means of how many times they went killing themselves off for someone) to depth of a character, then sure, Emilia has no depth compared to Rem, because Emilia was getting killed off far away from Subaru (and once near him, killed by yours lovingly, Satella). If you compare how much one cares for another, ignoring the care Emilia gave to Subaru in the mansion, she convinced her opposition Crusch Camp twice to ensure Subaru doesn't end up killing himself, since she cannot heal his gate nor can she have him around her anymore for his safety. She low-key slips in her spell woven concealing cloak with Subaru to ensure he hides his presence from danger. Sure, she hasn't actively gone out of her way and killed herself for Subaru's sake. That gap is filled by Rem because Emilia knows Subaru would just act unstable around her otherwise. Consider giving a look through her POV for a change, there are two main characters in the story. Emilia's goal is not just to be of use to Subaru, it is a bigger goal of introducing a new political order into Lugunica. Lastly, you should be impressed with Subaru's rejection of Rem, as far as the anime is concerned :P . He understood that he was undeserving of such feelings and it is a very dick move to return her feelings when his true heart lies for someone else. In short, he did not want to lead her on. I would have been disappointed if he let loose a shameless "I love you Rem" and it would also hold little meaning to Rem rejecting his offer to run away with him. The other point of that confession was to let Subaru know he was capable of change. Just like she herself was given the same advice by Subaru in episode 11. Favour returned. As for badass, I presume you imply battle prowess and Emilia is plenty strong in that, except for that serious-face "thanks for being defeated, villain" XD (wut?) like Emilia puts on the 'I care about everyone' act but truly only does things to the benefit of herself Quite correct, and this is something she admits to later on in episode 25 during her conversation with Subaru. Emilia has this weird way of looking at things despite being a highly empathetic person. She views her own actions as a selfish way of gaining a positive image among people. My last comment about the best-girl thing was mostly a joke, as it seems a lot of people focus on the 'battle for best girl' when they should really be focusing on the story and development. And since things seem to get heated when people discuss it (particularly for this anime), I don't want to argue about that. Part of the reason I felt Emilia had no depth is because in the first 1/3-1/2 of the anime, all you'd see is her usual personality: happy and carefree. Not that this is a bad thing, but this type of personality just seems to be pretty shallow, especially in this type of anime where it seems everyone has very unique personalities. I feel like I already said what I felt about the Rem and Emilia in my previous post, so I won't go and say the same thing over again. I hope I didn't come across to be bashing Emilia. As I stated before, I still very much like her as a character. It took a little bit of thinking about after I finished to understand what I really felt. But, I always enjoy discussing and being able to hear out other peoples' opinions. It just helps to understand the story better, even if there are disagreements. And, Happy New Years ^.^ |
P46Jan 1, 2019 1:29 AM
Jan 1, 2019 2:47 AM
#1676
@Jagd84 Goota check out the dubs again. Happy New Year :) No, I did not see it as bashing :) The best girl fight was the least bit of concern in this anime for me (I didn't even know about it until I checked out the forums this year...what a shitstorm). It is an unnecessary thing that exists just because of that rejection scene. I can guarantee you that the majority of people on this board haven't tried running that conversation through either Rem's and Subaru's POV. I recall feeling confused with Subaru's choice the first time I watched the scene. That quickly disappeared on subsequent rewatches when we think of all the events that have led to episode 18, including the resets. From what I have seen, many happen to gloss over the characters on a surface level just the way they are presented in the anime. Your observation regarding her being useless is quite true if we don't consider the POVs of all characters. I too called her useless when I went in the first time. It was only during rewatching that I picked up on details on the characters. Not sure if I would call her POV happy and carefree, that's only around Subaru because she feels 'normal' around him. This is because she has always been ostracized by people and she can't really be carefree since she is running for leadership. This is show is kinda like Evangelion in my eyes, another show which receives a lot of divide because it required viewer effort to sit in the perspectives of the characters with respect to why they responded/behaved in a particular manner. A Happy New Year to you as well! |
KreatorXJan 1, 2019 2:53 AM
Truly a Divine Comedy |
Jan 1, 2019 5:04 AM
#1677
P46 said: .Part of the reason I felt Emilia had no depth is because in the first 1/3-1/2 of the anime, all you'd see is her usual personality: happy and carefree. Not that this is a bad thing, but this type of personality just seems to be pretty shallow, especially in this type of anime where it seems everyone has very unique personalities. I feel like I already said what I felt about the Rem and Emilia in my previous post, so I won't go and say the same thing over again. I hope I didn't come across to be bashing Emilia. As I stated before, I still very much like her as a character. It took a little bit of thinking about after I finished to understand what I really felt. But, I always enjoy discussing and being able to hear out other peoples' opinions. It just helps to understand the story better, even if there are disagreements. And, Happy New Years ^.^ Happy New Years to you too. As being happy and carfree that's interesting say because Emilia is actaully rarely shown to be that aside some instances in her interactions with Subaru. She's usually very serious and stern especially regarding the Royal Selection and often chills Subaru for acting without care in the world. I mean in ep 12 she was even handling his hand like he was a child because she was afarid he run off and get into mischef again. If we weren't inside Subaru's head most of the time you think he was largely an airhead. Emilia is simply the most subtle character of the 3 but see her quite a of times with an either sober and withdrawn expressions and other times of strong determination. I think the problem is your conflating her general good nature as meaning she does not have any serious issues rather than her not wanting to burden people with them or allowing anything to stop her. That is not say it's not like Emilia does not have ignorance or bias about certain things, but that's hardly different from anyone else. I really suggest giving the series a rewatch at one point to pick up more on that kind of stuff. The next arc is gonna expand a lot on it. |
Iron_MawJan 1, 2019 5:43 AM
Jan 1, 2019 3:38 PM
#1678
@KreatorX & @Jagd84 For the sake of time saving I won't quote both of you guys. It seems both of you have made very similar points in these last posts. And I agree with both of you. I'll definitely have to re-watch this through again to really understand it, as there's no way to pick out the niche details and subtle hints regarding each character and their POV throughout the story the first time around. A lot of what I said was simply my 'first impressions' of the anime. I figured going into the forum I would be "proven wrong," for lack of a better term. Although, that is why I came. To share my perspective the first time around and gather insight for things to look out for the second time around. It's definitely hard to be able to pick out and understand the POV of the different characters on the first watch, and I'll definitely be giving this series a rewatch. I can't say whether this will change my personal opinion on whether I like Rem or Emilia better, but I know for a fact it'll allow me to see and understand why the story took that route. "If we weren't inside Subaru's head most of the time you think he was largely an airhead." Don't worry, even though it was mostly inside Subaru's head, I still thought he was an airhead a lot of the time :) But I'm glad this wasn't like a lot of other isekai out there, and that Subaru was more useless and dumb than overpowered. It allowed for a more realistic feel (well, as realistic as you can get given the story). After all, I suppose if Subaru *had* run away with Rem, the story would have nowhere to go and the anime would be over, which would be a very disappointing ending. |
Jan 1, 2019 4:35 PM
#1679
P46 said: After all, I suppose if Subaru *had* run away with Rem, the story would have nowhere to go and the anime would be over, which would be a very disappointing ending. Well, whether you eventually get down to rewatch Re-Zero or not, I personally recommend you need to watch this thing I am putting the spoiler below. I personally loathe watching AniTuber videos since they are so fucken biased but this here was a goldmine that I cannot refuse to share xD to others : only watch it after finishing episode 25. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IuyxcKsFWhI Re-Zero in 8 minutes |
KreatorXJan 1, 2019 4:46 PM
Truly a Divine Comedy |
Jan 1, 2019 6:08 PM
#1680
KreatorX said: P46 said: After all, I suppose if Subaru *had* run away with Rem, the story would have nowhere to go and the anime would be over, which would be a very disappointing ending. Well, whether you eventually get down to rewatch Re-Zero or not, I personally recommend you need to watch this thing I am putting the spoiler below. I personally loathe watching AniTuber videos since they are so fucken biased but this here was a goldmine that I cannot refuse to share xD to others : only watch it after finishing episode 25. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IuyxcKsFWhI Re-Zero in 8 minutes Thank you for that. Pretty much sums it up too xD |
Jan 2, 2019 9:08 AM
#1681
P46 said: After all, I suppose if Subaru *had* run away with Rem, the story would have nowhere to go and the anime would be over, which would be a very disappointing ending. well, there's the Rem IF chapters, which many people want to be turned into an anime or an OVA series |
Jan 2, 2019 5:12 PM
#1682
MABfan11 said: P46 said: After all, I suppose if Subaru *had* run away with Rem, the story would have nowhere to go and the anime would be over, which would be a very disappointing ending. well, there's the Rem IF chapters, which many people want to be turned into an anime or an OVA series Hmm, that does sound pretty interesting. I haven't read the LN/manga if that's where those are, but I suppose an OVA for that would be pretty cool. I can't say I would necessarily be interested in an entire season dedicated to the "what-if," but I'm sure the writers have a way of still making it interesting. Although while watching I knew Subaru wouldn't end up running away with Rem or anything like that because that would be a major plot detour lmao |
Jan 2, 2019 10:55 PM
#1683
MABfan11 said: P46 said: After all, I suppose if Subaru *had* run away with Rem, the story would have nowhere to go and the anime would be over, which would be a very disappointing ending. well, there's the Rem IF chapters, which many people want to be turned into an anime or an OVA series None of "What ifs" serve any purpose beyond this what might have been like. They are fine what the are but in the end it's just fanservice for specific part of the base. It's so much more that's canon that could and should be animated. That's were those resources should go. |
Jan 2, 2019 10:57 PM
#1684
Jagd84 said: MABfan11 said: P46 said: After all, I suppose if Subaru *had* run away with Rem, the story would have nowhere to go and the anime would be over, which would be a very disappointing ending. well, there's the Rem IF chapters, which many people want to be turned into an anime or an OVA series None of "What ifs" serve any purpose beyond this what might have been like. They are fine what the are but in the end it's just fanservice for specific part of the base. It's so much more that's canon that could and should be animated. That's were those resources should go. true, though given how profitable Rem is, it's probably worth investing into |
Feb 4, 2019 11:00 PM
#1685
Bernkishi07 said: That Rem x Subaru ship sunk faster than the Titanic. HOLY SHIT is this true lmao. My heart hurts, she's so sweet how could Subaru not chane his mind after all that? I wasn't even close to the Rem ship before this episode. Had to pause at his rejection |
Feb 27, 2019 8:28 AM
#1686
Love this chapter. It is, without a doubt, one of my favorites. It even made me shed some tears. The scenes of the conversation between Rem and Subaru really touched my heart. I think anyone would fall in love with someone who told him the words that Rem told Subaru. Simply beautiful. |
Feb 27, 2019 6:17 PM
#1687
Piegoose said: Bernkishi07 said: That Rem x Subaru ship sunk faster than the Titanic. HOLY SHIT is this true lmao. My heart hurts, she's so sweet how could Subaru not chane his mind after all that? I wasn't even close to the Rem ship before this episode. Had to pause at his rejection i lowkey want a spin off with the whole scenario rem had in my mind |
Feb 28, 2019 12:53 AM
#1688
Mar 15, 2019 5:45 PM
#1689
One has to love Rem. Hands down the best girl in this story. The fact that she loves Subaru altough he is an utterly idiot makes her even more incredible. Sadly we all knew since long ago that he is to delusional and will chase after Emilia for the rest of his life. And I still feel that his "love" for her is superficial. Come to think of, most romances in anime and manga are between the main characters. I wish they had broken that and went with a main character x side character romance. But I am glad that we finally saw some characterprogression for Subaru. Took only 18 (!!!) episodes, but hey, better late than never. |
tr25a3Mar 15, 2019 6:23 PM
Mar 16, 2019 4:47 PM
#1690
tr25a3 said: One has to love Rem. Hands down the best girl in this story. The fact that she loves Subaru altough he is an utterly idiot makes her even more incredible. Sadly we all knew since long ago that he is to delusional and will chase after Emilia for the rest of his life. And I still feel that his "love" for her is superficial. Come to think of, most romances in anime and manga are between the main characters. I wish they had broken that and went with a main character x side character romance. But I am glad that we finally saw some characterprogression for Subaru. Took only 18 (!!!) episodes, but hey, better late than never. Yea, Tappei is writing and building the characters in story for the long haul so he is taking his time. The anime only adapts the prologue of the story, which is mainly all about setting up Subaru as one of the main characters. Nearly every character interaction points towards that. |
Truly a Divine Comedy |
Mar 20, 2019 10:48 PM
#1691
Ughh... the cringe is strong in this one. Fuck I hate these overly dramatic forced emotional scenes and Subaru being quite the pathetic idiot is not helping this either. Rem just told Subaru that she loves him and then Subaru started talking about loving another girl and shit, when a girl confesses like that the least she wants to hear is her man talking about another girl, quite the fucking cringe this episode was goddamn. The beginning was pretty good but that pathetic stupid clown villain is getting on my nerves, he acts like a retard so not only does this show has a pathetic main character but it has one of the most pathetic villains I have ever seen. I really hope this shit changes from now on because at this point I want this anime to end, I hate stopping an anime when I'm this far ahead. Fuck. |
xZabuzaxMar 20, 2019 10:52 PM
Mar 25, 2019 9:55 PM
#1692
I don't understand...I can't really support Subaru's love if his relation with Emilia is so...undeveloped? On the other hand, there's Rem who's been shown killing herself for him and who's got amazing dialogue these last episodes, I really thought this episode was for him to have a change of heart...but...no... I don't understand...so I'll just sit here and cry with Rem. (At least he understands what he is now) |
Mar 26, 2019 1:38 AM
#1693
Asarina said: I don't understand...I can't really support Subaru's love if his relation with Emilia is so...undeveloped? On the other hand, there's Rem who's been shown killing herself for him and who's got amazing dialogue these last episodes, I really thought this episode was for him to have a change of heart...but...no... I don't understand...so I'll just sit here and cry with Rem. (At least he understands what he is now) That doesn't make sense. Rem only just likes him now after going throughout an arc of killing and torturing him. How that more developed than his relationship with Emilia? Subaru should just drop his feelings for the one person who been benefactor throughout show and for recency bias? You only saying his because your entirely focused on Rem's feelings and not Subaru's at all. That's terrible. If Emilia saving Subaru and being entirely responsible for life he can live right means anything to him than Rem should not dissuade him so easily to throw it all for her. Subaru's relationship with Rem parallels his with Emilia so basically asking Rem to abandon all her efforts and sacrifices for him for another person. |
Iron_MawMar 26, 2019 2:50 AM
Mar 26, 2019 2:38 AM
#1694
Asarina said: I don't understand...I can't really support Subaru's love if his relation with Emilia is so...undeveloped? On the other hand, there's Rem who's been shown killing herself for him and who's got amazing dialogue these last episodes, I really thought this episode was for him to have a change of heart...but...no... I don't understand...so I'll just sit here and cry with Rem. (At least he understands what he is now) To be fair, the pattern you should notice from the audience's viewpoint is that Rem is shown killing herself for Subaru, similarly to how Subaru is shown going through hell for Emilia. Perhaps consider being in Emilia's shoes and observe the whole situation again. Not explicitly shown but mentioned a couple of times in the anime, that there was 1 month period of peace/bliss between episode 12 and 13. Subaru has had more time around Emilia, than Rem (something the latter also admits to). You are not wholly wrong about the episode though, he had a change of heart where it actually mattered :) As for why it seems under-developed, if you think about it as said, it's no different than Subaru's relation with Rem. The only difference is that Emilia doesn't explicitly know how much of hell Subaru has gone through, because of plot device reasons (Satella). As an audience, you just happen to be aware of the Rem's back-story. Really, the main complaint you could have about the show so far is that any form of Emilia's development with Subaru was ruined by Satella. There are 2 main characters after all, not just Subaru. It would have been outright weird of all kinds if Emilia drops her ambitions (her main desire for becoming the ruler, not shown in the anime) for the sake of someone she just met at some random shack in a slum. Keeping the story in mind, it was Rem's turn to serve her purpose in season 1, not Emilia's. Short term vs long term developments if you would rather. In any case, perhaps you will understand every character's role in season 2 when you look back at season 1 retrospectively, if you are unable to do so now. :) |
Truly a Divine Comedy |
Mar 26, 2019 5:29 AM
#1695
KreatorX said: Asarina said: I don't understand...I can't really support Subaru's love if his relation with Emilia is so...undeveloped? On the other hand, there's Rem who's been shown killing herself for him and who's got amazing dialogue these last episodes, I really thought this episode was for him to have a change of heart...but...no... I don't understand...so I'll just sit here and cry with Rem. (At least he understands what he is now) To be fair, the pattern you should notice from the audience's viewpoint is that Rem is shown killing herself for Subaru, similarly to how Subaru is shown going through hell for Emilia. Perhaps consider being in Emilia's shoes and observe the whole situation again. Not explicitly shown but mentioned a couple of times in the anime, that there was 1 month period of peace/bliss between episode 12 and 13. Subaru has had more time around Emilia, than Rem (something the latter also admits to). You are not wholly wrong about the episode though, he had a change of heart where it actually mattered :) As for why it seems under-developed, if you think about it as said, it's no different than Subaru's relation with Rem. The only difference is that Emilia doesn't explicitly know how much of hell Subaru has gone through, because of plot device reasons (Satella). As an audience, you just happen to be aware of the Rem's back-story. Really, the main complaint you could have about the show so far is that any form of Emilia's development with Subaru was ruined by Satella. There are 2 main characters after all, not just Subaru. It would have been outright weird of all kinds if Emilia drops her ambitions (her main desire for becoming the ruler, not shown in the anime) for the sake of someone she just met at some random shack in a slum. Keeping the story in mind, it was Rem's turn to serve her purpose in season 1, not Emilia's. Short term vs long term developments if you would rather. In any case, perhaps you will understand every character's role in season 2 when you look back at season 1 retrospectively, if you are unable to do so now. :) I hadn't noticed there was a period of a month that had passed :0 It makes more sense the way you say it and I hadn't seen it that way since I didn't consider Emilia as a main character. I'll try to see it that way from now on :) I felt it was not developed enough because all I thought happened between them (not considering what has been erased by Subaru's death) is that...lap nap? Maybe I forgot some scenes or mixed some scenes that were erased by death with others that weren't. Still, from a viewer's perspective, I see Subaru going through hell for a girl whosaved him from hoodlums and who doesn't remember it. And we didn't really see more of her...What she thinks, who she is, how she talks, and how she feels. Maybe it's just me, but without these, I failed to get attached to Emilia. I like your answer though! I think it'll help me with the last couple of episodes ^v^ Have a good day! |
AsarinaMar 26, 2019 5:39 AM
Mar 26, 2019 6:58 AM
#1696
@Asarina The lap pillow is the canon loop. It's in fact what led to Rem to start changing her mind about Subaru and see him a like Emilia did. While it is true Emilia herself is not as fleshed out as Rem is the first 3 arcs from narrative perspective, it has little bearing her relationship with Subaru who likes because of her personality and fact she has saved looked out for him. It is the same with Rem who likes Subaru because he saved her, not due to how much she knows about him which is very little. |
Apr 14, 2019 5:51 PM
#1697
So I finally see why Rem is such a popular character after all these years. Good episode. I think Rem and Subaru are both broken on the inside. They both realize that and start working to improve themselves going forward. When Subaru rejected Rem and started talking about Emilia. I thought Rem was going to break out the ball and chain and beat him with it ^_^. I guess this is going to be a love triangle perhaps? IDK how Emilia feels, so maybe not!? In all my years of watching anime, the girl on the front cover of the source material (manga, light novel or VN) always win. It always that way. No matter the twist and turns the story may take, she always wins in the end. Only once did I see it not go that way. |
TheKoopaKingApr 14, 2019 6:00 PM
Apr 21, 2019 7:44 PM
#1698
i like rem as a character but i really do like emilia in terms of personality better. i can see why rem is the most popular girl for a waifu here, and his rejection was pretty cruel.. |
May 1, 2019 6:46 PM
#1699
Definitely #TeamRem now. After what Rem said to Subaru, he manages to say he loves Emilia in front of Rem (I wonder if he's wrong in the head) |
RoneCraft On-hold is another way for a completionist to say DROPPED |
May 2, 2019 12:50 AM
#1700
RoneCraft said: Definitely #TeamRem now. After what Rem said to Subaru, he manages to say he loves Emilia in front of Rem (I wonder if he's wrong in the head) Think of it this way: Rem refuses Subaru's decision to run away with him first, and then proceeds to lay down that fluff story about the future with them together. What was she actually trying to achieve here? Also, it would make Subaru appear as a rather poor character (or, wrong in the head) if he was to be dishonest with her at that point of self-reflection. |
KreatorXMay 2, 2019 12:56 AM
Truly a Divine Comedy |
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