Re:ZERO -Starting Life in Another World- (light novel)
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bobzanny said: Fuck that was such a good episode, mind=blown. This is how all series should handle characterization and development, a full episode to get everything out in the open, not some little 5 minute scene of "the feels". Rem being the best bro in all of history right there and I love the distinction in Subaru's eyes from this episode and episode 15. Also loved how Subaru just shit on himself for a solid 5 minutes, not too often an author will have is MC be so brutally honest with himself. This was by far the best example of an episode like that that I recall seeing, they really made the right choice going for this Subaru x Emilia x Rem. Dont need to say more. But I will. Ever since the start I took a liking to Emilia, her personality really made her such a sweet character... but seriously why are we calling her MC? And Rem a support? IMO or they are both support or main characters, one is not less than another, Rem has appeared alot more on these episode than Emilia ever did. Rem is love, Rem is life, but so Emilia is. Obviously Rem benefited alot from getting this much spotlight, it really developed her in such an endearing girl~~ I do believe that Emilia will also come true and show that she is more than worth to face Rem as best girls, if only Emilia had more scenes, but the ones she already had really solidified my whole opinon about her. Here there are people arguing Emilia vs Rem, pointless POINTLESS! IMO having both is far better, Emilia can go for main girl and Rem be the mistress, it is too heartless favoring the happiness of one over the another, so I choose both!! Great episode anyway, lets restart from 0! |
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Playcool said: bobzanny said: Fuck that was such a good episode, mind=blown. This is how all series should handle characterization and development, a full episode to get everything out in the open, not some little 5 minute scene of "the feels". Rem being the best bro in all of history right there and I love the distinction in Subaru's eyes from this episode and episode 15. Also loved how Subaru just shit on himself for a solid 5 minutes, not too often an author will have is MC be so brutally honest with himself. This was by far the best example of an episode like that that I recall seeing, they really made the right choice going for this Subaru x Emilia x Rem. Dont need to say more. But I will. Ever since the start I took a liking to Emilia, her personality really made her such a sweet character... but seriously why are we calling her MC? And Rem a support? IMO or they are both support or main characters, one is not less than another, Rem has appeared alot more on these episode than Emilia ever did. Rem is love, Rem is life, but so Emilia is. Obviously Rem benefited alot from getting this much spotlight, it really developed her in such an endearing girl~~ I do believe that Emilia will also come true and show that she is more than worth to face Rem as best girls, if only Emilia had more scenes, but the ones she already had really solidified my whole opinon about her. Here there are people arguing Emilia vs Rem, pointless POINTLESS! IMO having both is far better, Emilia can go for main girl and Rem be the mistress, it is too heartless favoring the happiness of one over the another, so I choose both!! Great episode anyway, lets restart from 0! Rem only appears more than Emilia in this arc. But the actual story isn't centered around her at all. The main purpose of her screen time in the 3rd arc was to facilitate Subaru development when got to his lowest point so he could break out of his self-absorb personality and state to his feelings Emilia honestly. Despite how immature he might have act his feelings for Emilia are genuine and Rem knows that which why she pushes him not to give up because despite his flaws he's not worthless as he thinks and Subaru has actual effected lives her, Emilia and everyone else within Roswaal's territory for the better. But he also has stop being tunnel visioned and consider Emilia feelings too even within his own suffering. This is very much a story Subaru and Emilia and how the later gets caught up her troubles but from his POV as it always been from the very beginning, but there are others a long the way that play important role in it. This is also important for Emilia's own development later in the story but Subaru has to change and be more honest with her. This doesn't happen until he's brokendown from his numerous failures in the loops that highlight his flaws and then pieces being picked up by Rem. From Zero ultimately less about Rem's love for him which just a moviating factor for her and more about Subaru facing himself and starting to accept his weakness. Rem's screen time is byproduct of becasue she is only one who he hasn't burned bridges with, but doesn't make her an MC as the story needs to revolve around her rather than just being a sidekick who supports the protagonist. It's same reason why say Puck isn't the lead male character despite supporting Emilia as much Rem does to Subaru. It doesn't really work like that. Subaru really wants to become somebody worthy of Emilia in his mind which why gets jealous others like Julius, the knights etc who have amazing talents and abilities achieve their dreams and be the kind of hero he wants to be. This not claim Rem is not an important character, but she doesn't move the story in the same way Subaru and Emilia do since so much revolves around them both directly and indirectly. But happens primary from his perspective and Rem just happened to be only companion from the mansion here just as Emilia was in Arc 1. That said as point Emilia like a lot of the characters in story are well characterized likable enough she is entirely fleshed out yet like Rem. Same gores for the other characters too. |
Iron_MawApr 8, 2018 1:34 AM
Jagd84 said: Rem only appears more than Emilia in this arc. But the actual story isn't centered around her at all. The main purpose of her screen time in the 3rd arc was to facilitate Subaru development when got to his lowest point so he could break out of his self-absorb personality and state to his feelings Emilia honestly. Despite how immature he might have act his feelings for Emilia are genuine and Rem knows that which why she pushes him not to give up because despite his flaws he's not worthless as he thinks and Subaru has actual effected lives her, Emilia and everyone else within Roswaal's territory for the better. But he also has stop being tunnel visioned and consider Emilia feelings too even within his own suffering. This is very much a story Subaru and Emilia and how the later gets caught up her troubles but from his POV as it always been from the very beginning, but there are others a long the way that play important role in it. This is also important for Emilia's own development later in the story but Subaru has to change and be more honest with her. This doesn't happen until he's brokendown from his numerous failures in the loops that highlight his flaws and then pieces being picked up by Rem. From Zero ultimately less about Rem's love for him which just a moviating factor for her and more about Subaru facing himself and starting to accept his weakness. Rem's screen time is byproduct of becasue she is only one who he hasn't burned bridges with, but doesn't make her an MC as the story needs to revolve around her rather than just being a sidekick who supports the protagonist. It's same reason why say Puck isn't the lead male character despite supporting Emilia as much Rem does to Subaru. It doesn't really work like that. Subaru really wants to become somebody worthy of Emilia in his mind which why gets jealous others like Julius, the knights etc who have amazing talents and abilities achieve their dreams and be the kind of hero he wants to be. This not claim Rem is not an important character, but she doesn't move the story in the same way Subaru and Emilia do since so much revolves around them both directly and indirectly. But happens primary from his perspective and Rem just happened to be only companion from the mansion here just as Emilia was in Arc 1. That said as point Emilia like a lot of the characters in story are well characterized likable enough she is entirely fleshed out yet like Rem. Same gores for the other characters too. Oh, you that famous Emilia workshipper that I keep encountering around lately on Re:Zero series posts, nice to meet ya~~ About that, I can understand both sides views about things, but in the end I can only judge by what I have seen, and so far it has been more on Rem's side, so I m really hopping to get way more Emilia's. She has been my best girl since the start, Rem IMO only manages to catch up with her in terms of favoritism since she has had way more spotlight recently, and making great use of it, so in a way there is alot to like for Rem and her actions (but like you said before, not long she was butchering Subaru, while Emilia was there to help from the start). I do realize this is a story about Emilia and Subaru and I m digging that, Rem is just that extra bonus that really outperformed herself lately thus becoming a really adorable girl, yet like I said, if one can choose, why not choose both? In the end there are not many episodes left, I really want to see Emilia taking a larger role and screentime again, but is it even possible so late in S1 already?! Also yenpress can go fuck themselves, off topic, they are taking too long to release the volumes, I dont feel like going with the WN, neither I want to wait years to read afterwords of this season's plot. BTW, since you took your time to do your duty, as EMF shipper, let me adress that avatar and forum profile... they are adoringly cute~~ |
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| I can agree that both Emilia and Rem are great, but where are Beatrice worshippers? ;-) |
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Playcool said: Jagd84 said: Rem only appears more than Emilia in this arc. But the actual story isn't centered around her at all. The main purpose of her screen time in the 3rd arc was to facilitate Subaru development when got to his lowest point so he could break out of his self-absorb personality and state to his feelings Emilia honestly. Despite how immature he might have act his feelings for Emilia are genuine and Rem knows that which why she pushes him not to give up because despite his flaws he's not worthless as he thinks and Subaru has actual effected lives her, Emilia and everyone else within Roswaal's territory for the better. But he also has stop being tunnel visioned and consider Emilia feelings too even within his own suffering. This is very much a story Subaru and Emilia and how the later gets caught up her troubles but from his POV as it always been from the very beginning, but there are others a long the way that play important role in it. This is also important for Emilia's own development later in the story but Subaru has to change and be more honest with her. This doesn't happen until he's brokendown from his numerous failures in the loops that highlight his flaws and then pieces being picked up by Rem. From Zero ultimately less about Rem's love for him which just a moviating factor for her and more about Subaru facing himself and starting to accept his weakness. Rem's screen time is byproduct of becasue she is only one who he hasn't burned bridges with, but doesn't make her an MC as the story needs to revolve around her rather than just being a sidekick who supports the protagonist. It's same reason why say Puck isn't the lead male character despite supporting Emilia as much Rem does to Subaru. It doesn't really work like that. Subaru really wants to become somebody worthy of Emilia in his mind which why gets jealous others like Julius, the knights etc who have amazing talents and abilities achieve their dreams and be the kind of hero he wants to be. This not claim Rem is not an important character, but she doesn't move the story in the same way Subaru and Emilia do since so much revolves around them both directly and indirectly. But happens primary from his perspective and Rem just happened to be only companion from the mansion here just as Emilia was in Arc 1. That said as point Emilia like a lot of the characters in story are well characterized likable enough she is entirely fleshed out yet like Rem. Same gores for the other characters too. Oh, you that famous Emilia workshipper that I keep encountering around lately on Re:Zero series posts, nice to meet ya~~ About that, I can understand both sides views about things, but in the end I can only judge by what I have seen, and so far it has been more on Rem's side, so I m really hopping to get way more Emilia's. She has been my best girl since the start, Rem IMO only manages to catch up with her in terms of favoritism since she has had way more spotlight recently, and making great use of it, so in a way there is alot to like for Rem and her actions (but like you said before, not long she was butchering Subaru, while Emilia was there to help from the start). I do realize this is a story about Emilia and Subaru and I m digging that, Rem is just that extra bonus that really outperformed herself lately thus becoming a really adorable girl, yet like I said, if one can choose, why not choose both? In the end there are not many episodes left, I really want to see Emilia taking a larger role and screentime again, but is it even possible so late in S1 already?! Also yenpress can go fuck themselves, off topic, they are taking too long to release the volumes, I dont feel like going with the WN, neither I want to wait years to read afterwords of this season's plot. BTW, since you took your time to do your duty, as EMF shipper, let me adress that avatar and forum profile... they are adoringly cute~~ Hahaha, Emilia is my favorite character in the series tying with Subaru, but I like Rem a lot too. In fact I like most if not all the characters in this series preferences aside. Re:Zero is a large-scale story, so everyone gets their time in in the limelight, unfortunately because the anime is just an adaptation with a finite number of episodes, sadly not all of it will be seen immediately (crosses fingers for 2nd season). Thanks for compliments about about the avig and sig. mozgow said: I can agree that both Emilia and Rem are great, but where are Beatrice worshippers? ;-) When Arc 4 gets animated they come to know the true joy of Betty. |
| to be honest why Natsuki Subaru refused a proposal Rem. I think Rem is the right person as a wife than Emilia, but whose name has fallen in love how else? |
| Wow this episode was really a back to zero for me. First I really didn't like Subaru since the start of the anime. I've always found him very stupid and cringy but now my respect from has just skyrocketed (at least for a moment) as I've never felt so close to an anime character this much. That part with him saying how much useless he is was so relatable that it actually had an emotional impact on me and it kind of went well with how stupid he was at the beginning of the show and I think that this is something that I should hold of this episode in addition to what happened with Rem. Now I understand why people love her so much and yes she is not an overrated waifu at all, she really earned my respect and I think she is the most lovable character in the show but I still don't understand the hate for Emilia. I mean yeah I also wanted to kill Subaru after that "ore wa emilia ga suki da" (even though my respect for him grew after the first part) but come on let's stop being dumb Emilia has nothing to do with that. Actually Emilia is quiet lovable too. |
AxBattler said: There were 7 witches (one for each deadly sin) and there are (or should be) 7 Sin Archbishops.(Speaking of pride, he has been called that by the Sloth freak in a recent episode right? Little guess, the witch has agents named after the 7 deadly sins and he is one of them) As Betelgeuse said, the position for Pride is vacant and Subaru might be the Pride. |
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mozgow said: AxBattler said: There were 7 witches (one for each deadly sin) and there are (or should be) 7 Sin Archbishops.(Speaking of pride, he has been called that by the Sloth freak in a recent episode right? Little guess, the witch has agents named after the 7 deadly sins and he is one of them) As Betelgeuse said, the position for Pride is vacant and Subaru might be the Pride. Hm, I was rewatching some episodes of this anime this weekend and that does seem plausible, given how Betelguese constantly harps about it. Not to mention that his chosen land-dragon Patrasche is the most prideful breed (ok, this might be too much of a stretch to relate two things, haha) A little off-topic, but talking of Betelguese, is it me or do his finger biting antics have reason behind all the madness? In the anime... |
KreatorXSep 22, 2018 2:55 PM
 Truly a Divine Comedy  |
| hmm... I finally picked this one again after stopping watching it at episode 16 when it was coming out. And hey I rewatched from ep 15 all the way till here... now I understand why Rem best girl exploded so much two years ago because after this episode ended I feel like dropping this shit yet again. Restart from zero you say... bullshit... from the very beginning the author set the pre-defined main love interest for MC and no matter what happens in the series, he will not change it. I hate when stories do it, especially stories that try to push secondary heroines and their story arcs in love direction but in the end, no matter what happened in their arc, the MC stays the same... Oh well... I am sure I will pick this up again once my rage about this dies out. Sigh... I really wanted to clean this up from my watching list. |
| top 10 longest presidential speeches and remember i love emilia |
| Definitely my favorite episode so far Rem was already my favorite character at this point, but this episode just made me like her even more She didn't give up on Subaru, she managed to convince him not to give up, she really loves him so much, even after Subaru rejected her, she still stuck with him I would've never imagine they would have such a close relationship when I first saw Rem brutally killing Subaru I don't hate Subaru for still loving Emilia He loves him, because she met her earlier than Rem, and because she saved him even when she was in a hurry, since she got robbed But I'm pretty sure Rem is just as important to Subaru as Emilia, or even more important Remember in episode 14 when everyone in the village got murdered? First thing Subaru was worried about was Rem, not Emilia He kept saying "Rem", not "Emilia" Their relationship is similar to Okabe's and Mayuri's in Steins;Gate Okabe loves Kurisu, but Mayuri is much more important to him I think it's the same here, Subaru loves Emilia, but Rem is more important to him |
-Aincrad-Nov 6, 2018 6:44 AM
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-Aincrad- said: Their relationship is similar to Okabe's and Mayuri's in Steins;Gate Okabe loves Kurisu, but Mayuri is much more important to him I think it's the same here, Subaru loves Emilia, but Rem is more important to him Interesting point about the Steins;gate thing... Didn't quite look at it like that. I personally took more of a liking to Kurisu, although Mayuri was one of my favorite characters throughout. Although as a matter of personal opinion, Rem is still far more superior to Emilia in my eyes. So far the anime has only seemed to make Emilia look more and more useless. Don't get me wrong, I still very much like her as a character. But Rem has consistently proven more loyal, useful, caring, etc. She's badass, is willing to sacrifice herself, and in my opinion holds a lot more depth as a character than Emilia. And to top it off, she seems to be the only one Subaru can truly count on, the one that can bring him back from his hopeless state, as proven by her speech in this episode. It just seems, at this point, like Emilia puts on the 'I care about everyone' act but truly only does things to the benefit of herself. I suppose this anime cannot just be about who loves who, as this isn't a harem (and I'm glad it isn't), but god damn if I wasn't extremely disappointed by Subaru's "I love Emilia." All in all, Rem will still be my best girl, and I suppose if Subaru won't have her, I will. |
P46 said: -Aincrad- said: Their relationship is similar to Okabe's and Mayuri's in Steins;Gate Okabe loves Kurisu, but Mayuri is much more important to him I think it's the same here, Subaru loves Emilia, but Rem is more important to him Interesting point about the Steins;gate thing... Didn't quite look at it like that. I personally took more of a liking to Kurisu, although Mayuri was one of my favorite characters throughout. Although as a matter of personal opinion, Rem is still far more superior to Emilia in my eyes. So far the anime has only seemed to make Emilia look more and more useless. Don't get me wrong, I still very much like her as a character. But Rem has consistently proven more loyal, useful, caring, etc. She's badass, is willing to sacrifice herself, and in my opinion holds a lot more depth as a character than Emilia. And to top it off, she seems to be the only one Subaru can truly count on, the one that can bring him back from his hopeless state, as proven by her speech in this episode. It just seems, at this point, like Emilia puts on the 'I care about everyone' act but truly only does things to the benefit of herself. I suppose this anime cannot just be about who loves who, as this isn't a harem (and I'm glad it isn't), but god damn if I wasn't extremely disappointed by Subaru's "I love Emilia." All in all, Rem will still be my best girl, and I suppose if Subaru won't have her, I will. Rem has literally done all of that because loves Subaru while Emilia has look out for him throughout the show without needing to have special feelings for him more than most people would have. This is an very important point to Subaru. Her actions have given him a home allowed him to find stable employment, saved him against the thugs, than mabreasts which spent all night healing his life-threaning injuries, confrnoted him emotionally when he was lossing it from despair, who took his side when people acccused him of murder despite contrary, had sacifice something important to get him treatment from Ferris and still bothered to help in midst of their fight. Yet not onky are some people acting she didn't do anything for him, Rem killing and torturing did not happen, but are shocked he picked someone who has supported him throughout show, and not another girl who happened to save him recently. Does it really make any sense for him to drop not only one who saved hom several times, but has validated his existance and feelings long before another did just because likes him? People are only saying he should love Rem more because of dramatics around her deaths and ignoring history why he's involved in this in first place what even allow hom to meet Rem and everyone else. Emilia did for him things that Rem never could never have done and had they not happened, ep 18 and whole of Arc 3 would not exist. Emilia does not need to be loyal or love someone for that person to fall her, that would and should happen because of who she is and what exactly she stands for or doesn't. That were Subaru is right now and why Rem confession would be no cause for him to love her over Emilia. He appreciates Rem feelings, but that not what he looking for in first place. As he said in ep 25 he wants to be Emilia's strength partly as way to repay his debts to her, because of those debts are what spawn his feeling for her. He wantd do for him what Rem has been for him fir very similar reasons and putting ehatI said context Subaru's response complete sense Rem has been well aware of that. The first half of this show didn't disappear making everything prior episode 15 stop matteting. Subaru is not operating under such tunnel vision. |
Iron_MawDec 31, 2018 2:25 PM
-Aincrad- said: Remember in episode 14 when everyone in the village got murdered? First thing Subaru was worried about was Rem, not Emilia He kept saying "Rem", not "Emilia" Actually your wrong on this one point. The first thing out of his mouth was going to be Emilia, but he stopped himself because he didn't want/could not imagine she was dead. So he wss saying Rem instead because it was easier for him to accept her death. Subaru doesn't truly care for her nearly as much as Emilia until around ep 15. Otherwise this pretty good comparison. |
P46 said: -Aincrad- said: Their relationship is similar to Okabe's and Mayuri's in Steins;Gate Okabe loves Kurisu, but Mayuri is much more important to him I think it's the same here, Subaru loves Emilia, but Rem is more important to him Not here to change your personal opinion on who best-grill is but the series requires you to sit in the POV of other characters and include all events to understand them properly, not just from Subaru's POV. None of the characters are useless when you piece the narrative together. Both Rem and Emilia served their form and function in the adaptation, pushing Subaru's character developments in the right direction. Apart from whatever @Jagd84 said, Emilia put a stop to Rem's murdering spree during the nights, after that lap pillow scene after she calls Rem and tells him that this guy is a good person. Had it not been for her fight with Subaru in episode 13, Subaru would not have started his chain of character development which pulled Rem into the foray. I mean, she literally called out Subaru for the way he had been behaving but Subaru was not in the right mental state to reflect on himself at that point. His nice-guy complex was just shattered by her in one verbal confrontation. The boi was shook. Mind you, Emilia's biggest strength is empathy, not loyalty. Furthermore, she is someone who considers Subaru as an precious person as he supposedly happens to be the first human/friend in her life who didn't shun her away. There are 3 separate instances in the anime where she herself took the initiative and approached Subaru to tell her everything because she wants to know why he goes through so much pain around her, but he was stopped every time by Satella due to plot-device reasons. In her eyes, she is placing trust in a person but that same person is not returning a similar level of trust in her. Their fight in episode 13 was about that. She wants to understand Subaru why he acts without self-preservation around her but he won't/can't tell her. If you choose to view things from Subaru's POV only, then the whole Lugunica Royal Family succession is a meaningless debacle. All of the politics is pointless. It isn't however meaningless to Emilia nor any of the opposition camps. The point being, the world doesn't revolve around Subaru. Ironically enough, Subaru's POV makes it seem that the world revolves around him by virtue of the resets. If you equate usefulness of a character (via means of how many times they went killing themselves off for someone) to depth of a character, then sure, Emilia has no depth compared to Rem, because Emilia was getting killed off far away from Subaru (and once near him, killed by yours lovingly, Satella). If you compare how much one cares for another, ignoring the care Emilia gave to Subaru in the mansion, she convinced her opposition Crusch Camp twice to ensure Subaru doesn't end up killing himself, since she cannot heal his gate nor can she have him around her anymore for his safety. She low-key slips in her spell woven concealing cloak with Subaru to ensure he hides his presence from danger. Sure, she hasn't actively gone out of her way and killed herself for Subaru's sake. That gap is filled by Rem because Emilia knows Subaru would just act unstable around her otherwise. Consider giving a look through her POV for a change, there are two main characters in the story. Emilia's goal is not just to be of use to Subaru, it is a bigger goal of introducing a new political order into Lugunica. Lastly, you should be impressed with Subaru's rejection of Rem, as far as the anime is concerned :P . He understood that he was undeserving of such feelings and it is a very dick move to return her feelings when his true heart lies for someone else. In short, he did not want to lead her on. I would have been disappointed if he let loose a shameless "I love you Rem" and it would also hold little meaning to Rem rejecting his offer to run away with him. The other point of that confession was to let Subaru know he was capable of change. Just like she herself was given the same advice by Subaru in episode 11. Favour returned. As for badass, I presume you imply battle prowess and Emilia is plenty strong in that, except for that serious-face "thanks for being defeated, villain" XD (wut?) like Emilia puts on the 'I care about everyone' act but truly only does things to the benefit of herself Quite correct, and |
KreatorXDec 31, 2018 4:25 PM
| Truly a Divine Comedy |
KreatorX said: Not here to change your personal opinion on who best-grill is but the series requires you to sit in the POV of other characters and include all events to understand them properly, not just from Subaru's POV. None of the characters are useless when you piece the narrative together. Both Rem and Emilia served their form and function in the adaptation, pushing Subaru's character developments in the right direction. Apart from whatever @Jagd84 said, Emilia put a stop to Rem's murdering spree during the nights, after that lap pillow scene after she calls Rem and tells him that this guy is a good person. Had it not been for her fight with Subaru in episode 13, Subaru would not have started his chain of character development which pulled Rem into the foray. I mean, she literally called out Subaru for the way he had been behaving but Subaru was not in the right mental state to reflect on himself at that point. His nice-guy complex was just shattered by her in one verbal confrontation. The boi was shook. Mind you, Emilia's biggest strength is empathy, not loyalty. Furthermore, she is someone who considers Subaru as an precious person as he supposedly happens to be the first human/friend in her life who didn't shun her away. There are 3 separate instances in the anime where she herself took the initiative and approached Subaru to tell her everything because she wants to know why he goes through so much pain around her, but he was stopped every time by Satella due to plot-device reasons. In her eyes, she is placing trust in a person but that same person is not returning a similar level of trust in her. Their fight in episode 13 was about that. She wants to understand Subaru why he acts without self-preservation around her but he won't/can't tell her. If you choose to view things from Subaru's POV only, then the whole Lugunica Royal Family succession is a meaningless debacle. All of the politics is pointless. It isn't however meaningless to Emilia nor any of the opposition camps. The point being, the world doesn't revolve around Subaru. Ironically enough, Subaru's POV makes it seem that the world revolves around him by virtue of the resets. If you equate usefulness of a character (via means of how many times they went killing themselves off for someone) to depth of a character, then sure, Emilia has no depth compared to Rem, because Emilia was getting killed off far away from Subaru (and once near him, killed by yours lovingly, Satella). If you compare how much one cares for another, ignoring the care Emilia gave to Subaru in the mansion, she convinced her opposition Crusch Camp twice to ensure Subaru doesn't end up killing himself, since she cannot heal his gate nor can she have him around her anymore for his safety. She low-key slips in her spell woven concealing cloak with Subaru to ensure he hides his presence from danger. Sure, she hasn't actively gone out of her way and killed herself for Subaru's sake. That gap is filled by Rem because Emilia knows Subaru would just act unstable around her otherwise. Consider giving a look through her POV for a change, there are two main characters in the story. Emilia's goal is not just to be of use to Subaru, it is a bigger goal of introducing a new political order into Lugunica. Lastly, you should be impressed with Subaru's rejection of Rem, as far as the anime is concerned :P . He understood that he was undeserving of such feelings and it is a very dick move to return her feelings when his true heart lies for someone else. In short, he did not want to lead her on. I would have been disappointed if he let loose a shameless "I love you Rem" and it would also hold little meaning to Rem rejecting his offer to run away with him. The other point of that confession was to let Subaru know he was capable of change. Just like she herself was given the same advice by Subaru in episode 11. Favour returned. As for badass, I presume you imply battle prowess and Emilia is plenty strong in that, except for that serious-face "thanks for being defeated, villain" XD (wut?) like Emilia puts on the 'I care about everyone' act but truly only does things to the benefit of herself Quite correct, and Also another thing that's worth pointing out is that while I was re-watching the series through the dub it was mentioned in Ep 10 that Puck and Betty kept the fact that Subaru was still cursed and would die in half a day from her because they knew she would have done same thing Rem did by going into forest doing near impossible of slaying every Wolgarm she could find and possibly get herself in same predicament as Rem to stop the curse. Again Emilia sure wasn't in love him, but there you can say she didn't care about him a lot and depending on circumstances she certainly put her life on line for him since as far she is concerned Subaru too is her benefactor. She kept certain amount of distance from him others because she has complexes and hardships she has internalized about herself other people. They kind of people who care about each a lot but end talking past each other due to not being same wavelength at times due to them still hiding things. Not to mention Subaru actually has quite a Savior/hero complex towards her as shown here for example. This scene is in the anime but its less empathized compared to manga panel. BTW, Happy New Year!  |
Iron_MawJan 1, 2019 7:07 PM
My last comment about the best-girl thing was mostly a joke, as it seems a lot of people focus on the 'battle for best girl' when they should really be focusing on the story and development. And since things seem to get heated when people discuss it (particularly for this anime), I don't want to argue about that. Part of the reason I felt Emilia had no depth is because in the first 1/3-1/2 of the anime, all you'd see is her usual personality: happy and carefree. Not that this is a bad thing, but this type of personality just seems to be pretty shallow, especially in this type of anime where it seems everyone has very unique personalities. I feel like I already said what I felt about the Rem and Emilia in my previous post, so I won't go and say the same thing over again. I hope I didn't come across to be bashing Emilia. As I stated before, I still very much like her as a character. It took a little bit of thinking about after I finished to understand what I really felt. But, I always enjoy discussing and being able to hear out other peoples' opinions. It just helps to understand the story better, even if there are disagreements. And, Happy New Years ^.^ |
P46Jan 1, 2019 1:29 AM
| @Jagd84 Goota check out the dubs again. Happy New Year :) No, I did not see it as bashing :) The best girl fight was the least bit of concern in this anime for me (I didn't even know about it until I checked out the forums this year...what a shitstorm). It is an unnecessary thing that exists just because of that rejection scene. I can guarantee you that the majority of people on this board haven't tried running that conversation through either Rem's and Subaru's POV. I recall feeling confused with Subaru's choice the first time I watched the scene. That quickly disappeared on subsequent rewatches when we think of all the events that have led to episode 18, including the resets. From what I have seen, many happen to gloss over the characters on a surface level just the way they are presented in the anime. Your observation regarding her being useless is quite true if we don't consider the POVs of all characters. I too called her useless when I went in the first time. It was only during rewatching that I picked up on details on the characters. Not sure if I would call her POV happy and carefree, that's only around Subaru because she feels 'normal' around him. This is because she has always been ostracized by people and she can't really be carefree since she is running for leadership. This is show is kinda like Evangelion in my eyes, another show which receives a lot of divide because it required viewer effort to sit in the perspectives of the characters with respect to why they responded/behaved in a particular manner. A Happy New Year to you as well! |
KreatorXJan 1, 2019 2:53 AM
| Truly a Divine Comedy |
P46 said: .Part of the reason I felt Emilia had no depth is because in the first 1/3-1/2 of the anime, all you'd see is her usual personality: happy and carefree. Not that this is a bad thing, but this type of personality just seems to be pretty shallow, especially in this type of anime where it seems everyone has very unique personalities. I feel like I already said what I felt about the Rem and Emilia in my previous post, so I won't go and say the same thing over again. I hope I didn't come across to be bashing Emilia. As I stated before, I still very much like her as a character. It took a little bit of thinking about after I finished to understand what I really felt. But, I always enjoy discussing and being able to hear out other peoples' opinions. It just helps to understand the story better, even if there are disagreements. And, Happy New Years ^.^ Happy New Years to you too. As being happy and carfree that's interesting say because Emilia is actaully rarely shown to be that aside some instances in her interactions with Subaru. She's usually very serious and stern especially regarding the Royal Selection and often chills Subaru for acting without care in the world. I mean in ep 12 she was even handling his hand like he was a child because she was afarid he run off and get into mischef again. If we weren't inside Subaru's head most of the time you think he was largely an airhead. Emilia is simply the most subtle character of the 3 but see her quite a of times with an either sober and withdrawn expressions and other times of strong determination. I think the problem is your conflating her general good nature as meaning she does not have any serious issues rather than her not wanting to burden people with them or allowing anything to stop her. That is not say it's not like Emilia does not have ignorance or bias about certain things, but that's hardly different from anyone else. I really suggest giving the series a rewatch at one point to pick up more on that kind of stuff. The next arc is gonna expand a lot on it. |
Iron_MawJan 1, 2019 5:43 AM
| @KreatorX & @Jagd84 For the sake of time saving I won't quote both of you guys. It seems both of you have made very similar points in these last posts. And I agree with both of you. I'll definitely have to re-watch this through again to really understand it, as there's no way to pick out the niche details and subtle hints regarding each character and their POV throughout the story the first time around. A lot of what I said was simply my 'first impressions' of the anime. I figured going into the forum I would be "proven wrong," for lack of a better term. Although, that is why I came. To share my perspective the first time around and gather insight for things to look out for the second time around. It's definitely hard to be able to pick out and understand the POV of the different characters on the first watch, and I'll definitely be giving this series a rewatch. I can't say whether this will change my personal opinion on whether I like Rem or Emilia better, but I know for a fact it'll allow me to see and understand why the story took that route. "If we weren't inside Subaru's head most of the time you think he was largely an airhead." Don't worry, even though it was mostly inside Subaru's head, I still thought he was an airhead a lot of the time :) But I'm glad this wasn't like a lot of other isekai out there, and that Subaru was more useless and dumb than overpowered. It allowed for a more realistic feel (well, as realistic as you can get given the story). After all, I suppose if Subaru *had* run away with Rem, the story would have nowhere to go and the anime would be over, which would be a very disappointing ending. |
P46 said: After all, I suppose if Subaru *had* run away with Rem, the story would have nowhere to go and the anime would be over, which would be a very disappointing ending. Well, whether you eventually get down to rewatch Re-Zero or not, I personally recommend you need to watch this thing I am putting the spoiler below. I personally loathe watching AniTuber videos since they are so fucken biased but this here was a goldmine that I cannot refuse to share xD to others : only watch it after finishing episode 25. |
KreatorXJan 1, 2019 4:46 PM
| Truly a Divine Comedy |
KreatorX said: P46 said: After all, I suppose if Subaru *had* run away with Rem, the story would have nowhere to go and the anime would be over, which would be a very disappointing ending. Well, whether you eventually get down to rewatch Re-Zero or not, I personally recommend you need to watch this thing I am putting the spoiler below. I personally loathe watching AniTuber videos since they are so fucken biased but this here was a goldmine that I cannot refuse to share xD to others : only watch it after finishing episode 25. Thank you for that. Pretty much sums it up too xD |
MABfan11 said: P46 said: After all, I suppose if Subaru *had* run away with Rem, the story would have nowhere to go and the anime would be over, which would be a very disappointing ending. well, there's the Rem IF chapters, which many people want to be turned into an anime or an OVA series Hmm, that does sound pretty interesting. I haven't read the LN/manga if that's where those are, but I suppose an OVA for that would be pretty cool. I can't say I would necessarily be interested in an entire season dedicated to the "what-if," but I'm sure the writers have a way of still making it interesting. Although while watching I knew Subaru wouldn't end up running away with Rem or anything like that because that would be a major plot detour lmao |
MABfan11 said: P46 said: After all, I suppose if Subaru *had* run away with Rem, the story would have nowhere to go and the anime would be over, which would be a very disappointing ending. well, there's the Rem IF chapters, which many people want to be turned into an anime or an OVA series None of "What ifs" serve any purpose beyond this what might have been like. They are fine what the are but in the end it's just fanservice for specific part of the base. It's so much more that's canon that could and should be animated. That's were those resources should go. |
Bernkishi07 said: That Rem x Subaru ship sunk faster than the Titanic. HOLY SHIT is this true lmao. My heart hurts, she's so sweet how could Subaru not chane his mind after all that? I wasn't even close to the Rem ship before this episode. Had to pause at his rejection |
| @_Goko Well, there are Rem IF chapters, with almost exactly that. |
|
tr25a3 said: One has to love Rem. Hands down the best girl in this story. The fact that she loves Subaru altough he is an utterly idiot makes her even more incredible. Sadly we all knew since long ago that he is to delusional and will chase after Emilia for the rest of his life. And I still feel that his "love" for her is superficial. Come to think of, most romances in anime and manga are between the main characters. I wish they had broken that and went with a main character x side character romance. But I am glad that we finally saw some characterprogression for Subaru. Took only 18 (!!!) episodes, but hey, better late than never. Yea, Tappei is writing and building the characters in story for the long haul so he is taking his time. The anime only adapts the prologue of the story, which is mainly all about setting up Subaru as one of the main characters. Nearly every character interaction points towards that. |
| Truly a Divine Comedy |
| I don't understand...I can't really support Subaru's love if his relation with Emilia is so...undeveloped? On the other hand, there's Rem who's been shown killing herself for him and who's got amazing dialogue these last episodes, I really thought this episode was for him to have a change of heart...but...no... I don't understand...so I'll just sit here and cry with Rem. (At least he understands what he is now) |
Asarina said: I don't understand...I can't really support Subaru's love if his relation with Emilia is so...undeveloped? On the other hand, there's Rem who's been shown killing herself for him and who's got amazing dialogue these last episodes, I really thought this episode was for him to have a change of heart...but...no... I don't understand...so I'll just sit here and cry with Rem. (At least he understands what he is now) That doesn't make sense. Rem only just likes him now after going throughout an arc of killing and torturing him. How that more developed than his relationship with Emilia? Subaru should just drop his feelings for the one person who been benefactor throughout show and for recency bias? You only saying his because your entirely focused on Rem's feelings and not Subaru's at all. That's terrible. If Emilia saving Subaru and being entirely responsible for life he can live right means anything to him than Rem should not dissuade him so easily to throw it all for her. Subaru's relationship with Rem parallels his with Emilia so basically asking Rem to abandon all her efforts and sacrifices for him for another person. |
Iron_MawMar 26, 2019 2:50 AM
Asarina said: I don't understand...I can't really support Subaru's love if his relation with Emilia is so...undeveloped? On the other hand, there's Rem who's been shown killing herself for him and who's got amazing dialogue these last episodes, I really thought this episode was for him to have a change of heart...but...no... I don't understand...so I'll just sit here and cry with Rem. (At least he understands what he is now) To be fair, the pattern you should notice from the audience's viewpoint is that Rem is shown killing herself for Subaru, similarly to how Subaru is shown going through hell for Emilia. Perhaps consider being in Emilia's shoes and observe the whole situation again. Not explicitly shown but mentioned a couple of times in the anime, that there was 1 month period of peace/bliss between episode 12 and 13. Subaru has had more time around Emilia, than Rem (something the latter also admits to). You are not wholly wrong about the episode though, he had a change of heart where it actually mattered :) As for why it seems under-developed, if you think about it as said, it's no different than Subaru's relation with Rem. The only difference is that Emilia doesn't explicitly know how much of hell Subaru has gone through, because of plot device reasons (Satella). As an audience, you just happen to be aware of the Rem's back-story. Really, the main complaint you could have about the show so far is that any form of Emilia's development with Subaru was ruined by Satella. There are 2 main characters after all, not just Subaru. It would have been outright weird of all kinds if Emilia drops her ambitions (her main desire for becoming the ruler, not shown in the anime) for the sake of someone she just met at some random shack in a slum. Keeping the story in mind, it was Rem's turn to serve her purpose in season 1, not Emilia's. Short term vs long term developments if you would rather. In any case, perhaps you will understand every character's role in season 2 when you look back at season 1 retrospectively, if you are unable to do so now. :) |
| Truly a Divine Comedy |
KreatorX said: Asarina said: I don't understand...I can't really support Subaru's love if his relation with Emilia is so...undeveloped? On the other hand, there's Rem who's been shown killing herself for him and who's got amazing dialogue these last episodes, I really thought this episode was for him to have a change of heart...but...no... I don't understand...so I'll just sit here and cry with Rem. (At least he understands what he is now) To be fair, the pattern you should notice from the audience's viewpoint is that Rem is shown killing herself for Subaru, similarly to how Subaru is shown going through hell for Emilia. Perhaps consider being in Emilia's shoes and observe the whole situation again. Not explicitly shown but mentioned a couple of times in the anime, that there was 1 month period of peace/bliss between episode 12 and 13. Subaru has had more time around Emilia, than Rem (something the latter also admits to). You are not wholly wrong about the episode though, he had a change of heart where it actually mattered :) As for why it seems under-developed, if you think about it as said, it's no different than Subaru's relation with Rem. The only difference is that Emilia doesn't explicitly know how much of hell Subaru has gone through, because of plot device reasons (Satella). As an audience, you just happen to be aware of the Rem's back-story. Really, the main complaint you could have about the show so far is that any form of Emilia's development with Subaru was ruined by Satella. There are 2 main characters after all, not just Subaru. It would have been outright weird of all kinds if Emilia drops her ambitions (her main desire for becoming the ruler, not shown in the anime) for the sake of someone she just met at some random shack in a slum. Keeping the story in mind, it was Rem's turn to serve her purpose in season 1, not Emilia's. Short term vs long term developments if you would rather. In any case, perhaps you will understand every character's role in season 2 when you look back at season 1 retrospectively, if you are unable to do so now. :) I hadn't noticed there was a period of a month that had passed :0 It makes more sense the way you say it and I hadn't seen it that way since I didn't consider Emilia as a main character. I'll try to see it that way from now on :) I felt it was not developed enough because all I thought happened between them (not considering what has been erased by Subaru's death) is that...lap nap? Maybe I forgot some scenes or mixed some scenes that were erased by death with others that weren't. Still, from a viewer's perspective, I see Subaru going through hell for a girl whosaved him from hoodlums and who doesn't remember it. And we didn't really see more of her...What she thinks, who she is, how she talks, and how she feels. Maybe it's just me, but without these, I failed to get attached to Emilia. I like your answer though! I think it'll help me with the last couple of episodes ^v^ Have a good day! |
AsarinaMar 26, 2019 5:39 AM
| @Asarina The lap pillow is the canon loop. It's in fact what led to Rem to start changing her mind about Subaru and see him a like Emilia did. While it is true Emilia herself is not as fleshed out as Rem is the first 3 arcs from narrative perspective, it has little bearing her relationship with Subaru who likes because of her personality and fact she has saved looked out for him. It is the same with Rem who likes Subaru because he saved her, not due to how much she knows about him which is very little. |
| i like rem as a character but i really do like emilia in terms of personality better. i can see why rem is the most popular girl for a waifu here, and his rejection was pretty cruel.. |
| Definitely #TeamRem now. After what Rem said to Subaru, he manages to say he loves Emilia in front of Rem (I wonder if he's wrong in the head) |
| RoneCraft On-hold is another way for a completionist to say DROPPED  |
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