| Back in 2012, 2016, and 2018 I remember there being discussions of people being negative about certain anime I was liking (Sword Art Online, Boku dake ga Inai Machi and Darling in the FranXX respectively). In those cases, however, all the discourse surrounded things like the writing and plot, and not once I remember hearing a comment about the animation in any of those. Nowadays it seems to be the opposite: I don't see anyone talking about writing when criticizing something popular, just animation. I can understand how bad writing can affect somebody's experiences, but I have trouble believing that anyone's experience was REALLY ruined by there not being a puff of dust next to Garou in OPM3. What caused this change? |
| Counterexample: Date a Live seasons 4 and 5 get fewer complaints than season 3 even though they look worse. |
| その目だれの目？ |
Reply to Lucifrost
Counterexample: Date a Live seasons 4 and 5 get fewer complaints than season 3 even though they look worse.
| @Lucifrost No they don't, lol. S3 looked crooked even on still frames and images, even on that last still image of the OP. The fucking OP. I can instantly tell an image is from S3 because, for some reason, it's color palette is brighter, like they added a filter in it, and it looks bad. |
| this is the worst thread title I have ever read on AD anyways, there is no change, people will criticize anime for anything, the problem with opm is not writting but animation and the problem with sao is not animation but writting. franxx is good at both, people who talk shit about it are mecha haters |
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| Animation has always been nitpicked. Go back and look at the forums for Naruto Shippuden or Bleach in the mid-2000s. Endless shitposts mocking still frames, slide shows, and derpy off-model characters. People tore One Piece animation to shreds for a decade. The difference is that today's sakuga-tweeting snobs have a higher-resolution platform to be obnoxious on. Writing is still eviscerated daily today. The last two years alone saw Wonder Egg Priority and Promised Neverland S2 get absolutely memory-holed almost solely for their catastrophic writing and endings. People also rightfully buried Rent-a-Girlfriend for its character writing, not its animation. Don't ignore all the animation whining from back then and all the plot whining from right now. The discourse is always shallow and the target just rotates based on what's most obviously broken in the biggest show of the season. The current punching bag just happens to be OPM 3. |
Reply to Impala
Animation has always been nitpicked. Go back and look at the forums for Naruto Shippuden or Bleach in the mid-2000s. Endless shitposts mocking still frames, slide shows, and derpy off-model characters. People tore One Piece animation to shreds for a decade. The difference is that today's sakuga-tweeting snobs have a higher-resolution platform to be obnoxious on.
Writing is still eviscerated daily today. The last two years alone saw Wonder Egg Priority and Promised Neverland S2 get absolutely memory-holed almost solely for their catastrophic writing and endings. People also rightfully buried Rent-a-Girlfriend for its character writing, not its animation.
Don't ignore all the animation whining from back then and all the plot whining from right now. The discourse is always shallow and the target just rotates based on what's most obviously broken in the biggest show of the season. The current punching bag just happens to be OPM 3.
Writing is still eviscerated daily today. The last two years alone saw Wonder Egg Priority and Promised Neverland S2 get absolutely memory-holed almost solely for their catastrophic writing and endings. People also rightfully buried Rent-a-Girlfriend for its character writing, not its animation.
Don't ignore all the animation whining from back then and all the plot whining from right now. The discourse is always shallow and the target just rotates based on what's most obviously broken in the biggest show of the season. The current punching bag just happens to be OPM 3.
Impala said: Writing is still eviscerated daily today. The last two years alone saw Wonder Egg Priority and Promised Neverland S2 get absolutely memory-holed almost solely for their catastrophic writing and endings. Things have changed since 2021, if the praise for Takopi's Original Sin is any indication. |
| その目だれの目？ |
| Since UFOTABLE came along Adobe Aftereffects is animation =u= |
Reply to Lucifrost
Impala said:
Writing is still eviscerated daily today. The last two years alone saw Wonder Egg Priority and Promised Neverland S2 get absolutely memory-holed almost solely for their catastrophic writing and endings.
Writing is still eviscerated daily today. The last two years alone saw Wonder Egg Priority and Promised Neverland S2 get absolutely memory-holed almost solely for their catastrophic writing and endings.
Things have changed since 2021, if the praise for Takopi's Original Sin is any indication.
| @Lucifrost Wait, has it really been four years? As for Takopi, what’s wrong with it? Admittedly, I’m pretty biased toward it. Our scanlation group was the one who picked the manga up and worked on it before it got officially licensed, so maybe I got the sentimental attachment. To be honest, I don’t really remember the specifics of why I liked it so much. I just know I did. I still haven’t gotten around to watching the anime adaptation, either. |
| I still see plenty of complaining about writing. People clown on shows like Demon Slayer, Solo Leveling and Rent-a-Girlfriend for the writing, no? I don't think a lot of people have a problem with how they look. And I know there was a lot of dissatisfaction with the ending of Attack on Titan. On the flip side, Frieren gets a lot of praise for its writing first and foremost, even though the visuals and the animation are of course great. Same with Vinland Saga. Orb is another one, but with middling visuals. If the argument is that people complain about writing less than before, then I can't really say. But I will say that animation is way easier to complain about than writing. You can just post a clip and say "look, this looks ass," and get attention and some reaction out of it. |
Reply to perseii
I still see plenty of complaining about writing.
People clown on shows like Demon Slayer, Solo Leveling and Rent-a-Girlfriend for the writing, no? I don't think a lot of people have a problem with how they look. And I know there was a lot of dissatisfaction with the ending of Attack on Titan.
On the flip side, Frieren gets a lot of praise for its writing first and foremost, even though the visuals and the animation are of course great. Same with Vinland Saga. Orb is another one, but with middling visuals.
If the argument is that people complain about writing less than before, then I can't really say. But I will say that animation is way easier to complain about than writing. You can just post a clip and say "look, this looks ass," and get attention and some reaction out of it.
People clown on shows like Demon Slayer, Solo Leveling and Rent-a-Girlfriend for the writing, no? I don't think a lot of people have a problem with how they look. And I know there was a lot of dissatisfaction with the ending of Attack on Titan.
On the flip side, Frieren gets a lot of praise for its writing first and foremost, even though the visuals and the animation are of course great. Same with Vinland Saga. Orb is another one, but with middling visuals.
If the argument is that people complain about writing less than before, then I can't really say. But I will say that animation is way easier to complain about than writing. You can just post a clip and say "look, this looks ass," and get attention and some reaction out of it.
| @perseii Very few people do. At least in comparison to what happened with the three shows I've mentioned. (Or what happens to a show if it has bad animation) |
Reply to Lucifrost
Impala said:
Writing is still eviscerated daily today. The last two years alone saw Wonder Egg Priority and Promised Neverland S2 get absolutely memory-holed almost solely for their catastrophic writing and endings.
Writing is still eviscerated daily today. The last two years alone saw Wonder Egg Priority and Promised Neverland S2 get absolutely memory-holed almost solely for their catastrophic writing and endings.
Things have changed since 2021, if the praise for Takopi's Original Sin is any indication.
| @Lucifrost In my opinion, Takopi's ending made sense thematically – I would even say it was the best way to wrap up the themes in Takopi – and was coherent at the very least. It was a deus ex machina, but that's not always bad. Even though it felt rather unsatisfying in terms of plot, I was willing to accept it because I couldn't see any better way the story could have ended without compromising on its message. WEP and Promised Neverland S2, on the other hand... |
thewiru said: Back in 2012, 2016, and 2018 I remember there being discussions of people being negative about certain anime I was liking (Sword Art Online, Boku dake ga Inai Machi and Darling in the FranXX respectively). In those cases, however, all the discourse surrounded things like the writing and plot, and not once I remember hearing a comment about the animation in any of those. Nowadays it seems to be the opposite: I don't see anyone talking about writing when criticizing something popular, just animation. I can understand how bad writing can affect somebody's experiences, but I have trouble believing that anyone's experience was REALLY ruined by there not being a puff of dust next to Garou in OPM3. What caused this change? “When did the community stop being writing-pilled and start animation-maxxing?” Probably around the same time people decided shit like food quality should be judged by licking the plate instead of eating the actual fucking meal. lol Back between 2012 and 2018, arguing about anime was like arguing about how one got the "Clap" last time they had sex... people would talked about shit like burning or pain when taking a piss, sometimes green discharge leaking out of their cock like slime leaking out of a "Garbage Pail kids" ass, or even their testicles fucking swollen to the point they outsized the actual length of their package making them look like they had a tiny dick. You know... instead of actually trying to figure out how they even got the shit to begin with. lol Now discourse is just people trying to sniffing their cock and seeing how the "Clap" smells for half a second, zooming in on one deformity on their junk that looks slightly darker than the rest of their cock, and then declaring... “This is probably going to ruin the next time I have unprotected casual sex!” lol Sorry man, if your enjoyment of One Punch Man collapses because Garou didn’t kick up enough imaginary dirt, you weren’t actually watching it for a story... you were loading animation ASMR into your eyeballs and Gooning to motion curves. lol This isn’t “animation literacy”, it’s screen-cap taxidermy. Someone freezes a single frame, pokes at it like they just found something deeply wrong, where they weren’t even looking for the shit to begin with, and the entire internet nods solemnly as if an autopsy just fucking wrapped up. lol Primary school level criticism, requires 3 basic fucking things:
(This was shit told to me once by an actual professional who had shit published in multiple magazines in the 80s and 90s, reviewing Western sitcoms, before they retired.) Brain dead online Animation criticism requires:
Where this shit is the intellectual equivalent of diagnosing a fucking heart failure because someone sneezed funny. lol Also let’s be fucking real here... writing discourse didn’t ever fucking vanish either... it got mined to bedrock. SAO, Erased, DitF, etc... all had their plots beaten so flat the shit ended up thinner than someone stepping on a steaming pile of dogshit over and over again. There’s nothing left to say except “yeah, the ending still fucking sucked”. lol So people moved to the fucking animation because it’s new real estate… fresh talking points, zero homework, maximum fucking engagement. A single jpeg now earns more Reddit karma than a full paragraph explaining narrative structure. Because most users wouldn’t even bother reading shit if it’s longer than a sentence. Welcome to the attention span of modern online social engagement. lol Which is how we probably fucking got here... a community where a show can have coherent themes, solid character arcs, and emotional payoff... but if a fresh pile of animated shit is missing steam oozing out of it, it’s treated like someone took a literal shit in the Blu-ray case of a new seasonal slop release. lol At that point the shit is not critiquing art. It's just aggressively dry-humping production values and calling it fucking taste. lol If someone wants to say animation matters, fine... it does. But if animation is the only thing they notice, that's not evolving. They just found a louder, much lazier way, to fart online about shit. lol |
ColourWheelDec 7, 2:15 AM
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| Feel like Demon slayer was truly the start of it all. Simple story and amazing animation forced new fans to expect that within all shows. Because of this, animation-maxxing has destroyed the perception of the production of anime and ppl now can't understand why animation looks like this for one show and like that for another. But, at the same time, I think writing should constitute sum time of animation that can visually get the point across to viewers. Imagine a well written moment happens and the character just starts moving like a png. You wouldn't take it seriously. |
 "Hard work is worthless for those that don’t believe in themselves" - Naruto Uzumaki I rate by enjoyment |
| Fr fr, the community be doing wack shit now ong. |
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| People have always complained about animation quality. They complained about it a lot in Dragon Ball Super much in the same way they complain about OPM S3. And speaking of OPM, they also complained about the animation in season 2. I remember seeing lots of complaints over various shows over the last couple decades. There was even a show back in 2006 which ended up being a meme over how bad the cabbage was drawn. A lot of people watch something like OPM for the action scenes, it is why it has such a big casual audience. So if the animation is bad, people will complain, because they want the good animated fights of season 1. |
thewiru said: I remember DBS getting murdered for it's animation errors, when it first came out in 2015, so I think you are off there. Naruto also got memed on, when the Pain arc was actively going on, when I was a kid in 2010....so again I find the assertion faulty. You can literally go on r/characterrant and see people bitch about the writing in currently popular anime, if that is what you are looking for. What caused this change? Again you are making a faulty premise, so there isn't much to say here. There was no change. Like IDK why you do this, however, you make anecdotal observations, assert them to be truth, rather than I think, and then ask for our opinion on them, when most people are not going to agree with your assertion in the first place... You do this constantly. Animation has always been prized in the community, as has writing been prized. When I was a new kid in the medium, during the late 2000s, people absolutely highlighted good animation. That was how I became aware of Cowboy Bebop in the first place. People talked about it's style, art, animation and OST before the writing, and it's not like the writing in that show is bad (in my opinion). Ghost in the Shell, a film again, I think has great writing, it was largely the cinematography, art and animation that anime fans or cinephiles for that matter talked about. Akira (where I don't like the writing but some do) was the same case. Taking those works and using them to bash modern anime (of the late 2000s) like Lucky Star and K-On! was like a notable feature of late 2000s anime culture lol. The artistic differences were a big focus. I was too young for the anime debates of the mid 2000s or early 2000s or 90s/80s for that matter, so you will have to track someone down from those days, however, I bet they still were amazed when good animation was good. I also think people do absolutely talk about the writing constantly in the industry today. In the end though, talking about animation probably is easier to demonstrate, especially on shorter video content. Still your OPM example is pretty bad. It objectively is getting a subpar animated adaption. It absolutely relies on action. It's not a slice of life drama, where talking takes up the majority of the scenes. I mean Berserk 2016 came out in your ideal time frame lol. The outrage there was on the same level as OPM S3. Why would people not talk about the animation? It would be weird if they didn't. There is no world where people ignore visuals, in a visual medium. IDC what decade you are from. The only medium where people focus on writing itself, is literature, and even in that space you have people who need good prose...so plot isn't everything. Though again.....you literally have more voices than ever talking about anime, and if you want to find people talking about the plot of a show you can. I can't promise that is going to be about the shows you like, or they are going to analyze as well as your animetube idols of the mid 2010s (the golden age apparently lol) however, those conversations at least are objectively prevalent. |
BilboBaggins365Dec 7, 1:18 AM
| https://myanimelist.net/anime/10087/Fate_Zero <-----i feel like this show was the one that really started the animation>writing trend for anime...this show made everything else releasing at the time, look bland. Ufotable has made alot of visually stunning anime, and unfortunately...as animation kept getting better...people got spoiled...kept wanting their favourite manga/LN's to be animated like that...and when they weren't...well, people started talking shit on those anime. people will still bitch about bad writing...but if you look closely, its usually directed at anime that are visually pleasing. yall gotta remember...Back in the '90's and 00's, alot of anime had close to the same animation quality(per season/year)...so people would primarily bitch about the writing, because there wasnt really anything else to bitch about lol. |
SaputraiDec 7, 1:38 AM
| im pretty certain now that current day modern anime is a japanese governmemt psy-op against america and the west in general....filling the market with outrageous brain-rot for the dumb westerm masses to mindlessly consume, slowly but surely turning u into a vegetable its true..prove me wrong so what does it matter who is writing-pilled or who is anime-maxxing?... its all futile.... anime peaked a long time ago |
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| Probably when Demon Slayer S1 aired. |
*kappa* |
thewiru said: there was no such change. you are making things up. people are critizing Solo Leveling plenty for how it's nothing but flashy animation and vibes with zero substance.What caused this change? thewiru said: because the animation in those was fine. nothing outstanding in either direction.not once I remember hearing a comment about the animation in any of those. |
Reply to ColourWheel
thewiru said:
Back in 2012, 2016, and 2018 I remember there being discussions of people being negative about certain anime I was liking (Sword Art Online, Boku dake ga Inai Machi and Darling in the FranXX respectively).
In those cases, however, all the discourse surrounded things like the writing and plot, and not once I remember hearing a comment about the animation in any of those.
Nowadays it seems to be the opposite: I don't see anyone talking about writing when criticizing something popular, just animation.
I can understand how bad writing can affect somebody's experiences, but I have trouble believing that anyone's experience was REALLY ruined by there not being a puff of dust next to Garou in OPM3.
What caused this change?
Back in 2012, 2016, and 2018 I remember there being discussions of people being negative about certain anime I was liking (Sword Art Online, Boku dake ga Inai Machi and Darling in the FranXX respectively).
In those cases, however, all the discourse surrounded things like the writing and plot, and not once I remember hearing a comment about the animation in any of those.
Nowadays it seems to be the opposite: I don't see anyone talking about writing when criticizing something popular, just animation.
I can understand how bad writing can affect somebody's experiences, but I have trouble believing that anyone's experience was REALLY ruined by there not being a puff of dust next to Garou in OPM3.
What caused this change?
“When did the community stop being writing-pilled and start animation-maxxing?”
Probably around the same time people decided shit like food quality should be judged by licking the plate instead of eating the actual fucking meal. lol
Back between 2012 and 2018, arguing about anime was like arguing about how one got the "Clap" last time they had sex... people would talked about shit like burning or pain when taking a piss, sometimes green discharge leaking out of their cock like slime leaking out of a "Garbage Pail kids" ass, or even their testicles fucking swollen to the point they outsized the actual length of their package making them look like they had a tiny dick. You know... instead of actually trying to figure out how they even got the shit to begin with. lol
Now discourse is just people trying to sniffing their cock and seeing how the "Clap" smells for half a second, zooming in on one deformity on their junk that looks slightly darker than the rest of their cock, and then declaring... “This is probably going to ruin the next time I have unprotected casual sex!” lol
Sorry man, if your enjoyment of One Punch Man collapses because Garou didn’t kick up enough imaginary dirt, you weren’t actually watching it for a story... you were loading animation ASMR into your eyeballs and Gooning to motion curves. lol
This isn’t “animation literacy”, it’s screen-cap taxidermy. Someone freezes a single frame, pokes at it like they just found something deeply wrong, where they weren’t even looking for the shit to begin with, and the entire internet nods solemnly as if an autopsy just fucking wrapped up. lol
Primary school level criticism, requires 3 basic fucking things:
- Watching the whole fucking show
- Remembering shit that actually happened even 3 episodes ago
- Explaining shit like motivations, themes, pacing, etc...
(This was shit told to me once by an actual professional who had shit published in multiple magazines in the 80s and 90s, reviewing Western sitcoms, before they retired.)
Brain dead online Animation criticism requires:
- Pausing at the worst fucking possible frame
- Bitching and whining, “OUTSOURCED!”
- Getting 500 likes for bravery clout
Where this shit is the intellectual equivalent of diagnosing a fucking heart failure because someone sneezed funny. lol
Also let’s be fucking real here... writing discourse didn’t ever fucking vanish either... it got mined to bedrock. SAO, Erased, DitF, etc... all had their plots beaten so flat the shit ended up thinner than someone stepping on a steaming pile of dogshit over and over again. There’s nothing left to say except “yeah, the ending still fucking sucked”. lol
So people moved to the fucking animation because it’s new real estate… fresh talking points, zero homework, maximum fucking engagement. A single jpeg now earns more Reddit karma than a full paragraph explaining narrative structure. Because most users wouldn’t even bother reading shit if it’s longer than a sentence. Welcome to the attention span of modern online social engagement. lol
Which is how we probably fucking got here... a community where a show can have coherent themes, solid character arcs, and emotional payoff... but if a fresh pile of animated shit is missing steam oozing out of it, it’s treated like someone took a literal shit in the Blu-ray case of a new seasonal slop release. lol
At that point the shit is not critiquing art. It's just aggressively dry-humping production values and calling it fucking taste. lol
If someone wants to say animation matters, fine... it does. But if animation is the only thing they notice, that's not evolving. They just found a louder, much lazier way, to fart online about shit. lol
| I don't think you're wrong about the levels of anime discourse nowadays centering more often towards animation than writing, and I think a lot of commenters of this thread have brought up some pretty good points. ColourWheel said: Primary school level criticism, requires 3 basic fucking things: Watching the whole fucking show Remembering shit that actually happened even 3 episodes ago Explaining shit like motivations, themes, pacing, etc... Honestly this especially I agree with. Many have mentioned there's a growing increase of people that watch anime nowadays/more casual anime watchers, which is awesome for the industry, but invites way more shallow takes (similar to stuff like sports for example). Add how society has shifted towards more instant gratification and shorter attention spans, and it's natural that many people would focus more on animation than writing. Writing still matters obviously, otherwise shows like Freiren (which did have great animation to be clear) and Apothecary Diaries wouldn't be as popular as they have been, but I think there's a reason shows like Kingdom aren't nearly as talked about as OPM or MHA |
| A match made in heaven set the fires in hell |
| I'm so confused how anyone would fail to understand this. Bad writing + good animation = tolerable Good writing + bad animation = tolerable Bad writing + bad animation = garbage |
"Nobody could laugh at someone who's trying their hardest" -Machio- |
Reply to plebrepel
Since UFOTABLE came along Adobe Aftereffects is animation =u=
| @plebrepel Well, trends change, be it in animation or anything else. When 2D digital animation became popular, many devoted cel animation fans were salty about it. ;p Majority of the audience wants to see good-looking animation when watching animated series, obviously. Whether something is pretty because it's hand drawn, or polished in a digital drawing software, or filled with CGI or editing effects, or enhanced by AI, it doesn't matter really. As long as it's pretty, it's good enough. ;p |
| If we really were to call the people who watch anime a community of some sort (I personally prefer saying "so-called community"), then honestly, it's all pretty subjective. For decades you could spot (self-proclaimed) "muh genius writing" and "muh sakuga kino" connoisseurs popping up here and there. And once the Internet became widespread, their online population naturally skyrocketed. Now they've got multiple popular platforms where they can share their opinions about whatever element they consider superior in an anime, sometimes treating it as if it single-handedly overrides every other flaw in the show. And yeah, they can be very vocal. Sometimes toxic too, since a lot of them seem to have... let's just say, questionable emotional stability, lol. Having a meltdown because some random person on the Internet said "I don't care, I liked what I watched", definitely isn't normal behavior, lmao. |
| Cherry picking. thewiru said: (Sword Art Online, Boku dake ga Inai Machi and Darling in the FranXX anime from the 2010s with fine animation and questionable writing were being criticized for their questionable writing (just like Solo Leveling and Demon Slayer in the 2020s) thewiru said: OPM3 anime from the 2020s with terrible animation is being criticized for its terrible animation (just like Millepensee's Berserk and Naruto Shippuuden in the 2010s) |
| "When did the community stopped being writing-pilled and started animation-maxxing?" Ask the ones who deny the fact that a lot of people are stuck in anime tourism and refuse to progress into normies. |
Reply to detarameMAL
@Lucifrost In my opinion, Takopi's ending made sense thematically – I would even say it was the best way to wrap up the themes in Takopi – and was coherent at the very least. It was a deus ex machina, but that's not always bad. Even though it felt rather unsatisfying in terms of plot, I was willing to accept it because I couldn't see any better way the story could have ended without compromising on its message.
WEP and Promised Neverland S2, on the other hand...
WEP and Promised Neverland S2, on the other hand...
detarameMAL said: Even though it felt rather unsatisfying in terms of plot, I was willing to accept it because I couldn't see any better way the story could have ended without compromising on its message. I'd expect to see criticism of Takopi's message if people still had standards. |
| その目だれの目？ |
| If true, Maybbe cause of 2020 influx, maybe they care less about write cause new , but as always Thank you for integrating backdoor hamster wheel powered heuristics with confidence levels rivaling actual science for our sake  pero~ |
ChouunShiryuuDec 7, 7:32 AM
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| Eh like every since joining MAL back in 2013 Ive felt people been sacuga fan boys, you'd find countless people who refused to watch anything before 2010s because badly animated in their opinion, granted people often back then would just say bad animation as a critic be it they meant art fluidity or art style and you'd have to ask which one they thought was bad People would also praise 2000s Bones and Madhouse a lot back then for simply making highly well animated series and give a good score for that alone |
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| Well, I haven't seen any instances of objectively bad animation, so the only thing to criticize is the plot/writing. |
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| What change? Looks were always more celebrated than everything else. Animation and Fanservice always were able to elevate a Show, not matter how shitty the rest might be. Stop acting like you're a true fan, who only cares about intricate, clever writing and we are all casuals xD We can see your list: -> You gave Gleipnir a 9! Is it because the story is so amazing? Is it because it's really going deep with it's storytelling? No, it's because of shitty fanservice every 2 Minutes, a fetishized relationship between a male, submissive Protag and a girl AND because the Animation is good. -> You LOVE Kill La Kill. A Show that is legendary, mainly because of its Style. -> Gushing over Magical Girls is in your favorites. What's the appeal of this Show, dude? Is it its plot-structure and good writing? 😂 -> Thristy Girls who only appear on screen for ecchi scenes and horny one-liners are some of the BEST character you've ever seen, according to your profile. What are talking about you don't understand how everbody is into style over substance? You are one of them! For the most part you enjoy the horndog, simple stuff that looks good. That's fine. No need to pretend. That's your taste. You like what a twelve year old, who watches Anime, would like. You're NOT into writing, that much. Watching Haibane Renmei won't change that. And that's okay.... just stop it. *sigh* |
Merve2LoveDec 7, 11:34 PM
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| @Merve2Love I myself like Gleipnir for slipping you bits of its story with plushsuit docking action. It wouldn't work with only animation of -that-. Or I mean not as an anime. Not as an above new-average anime. Mahouako would be far less appealing without the protagonist's personality. That very much is a plot important show not carried only by animation. I would still like it as a slideshow, nary, a picture drama. I like me some good picture drama. Code Geass has good picture drama. Know what picture drama has very little of? Animation. When you try to do animation and nothing else you get wastes of talent like solo leveling and dandy. |
Reply to OGHelios
I don't think you're wrong about the levels of anime discourse nowadays centering more often towards animation than writing, and I think a lot of commenters of this thread have brought up some pretty good points.
Honestly this especially I agree with. Many have mentioned there's a growing increase of people that watch anime nowadays/more casual anime watchers, which is awesome for the industry, but invites way more shallow takes (similar to stuff like sports for example). Add how society has shifted towards more instant gratification and shorter attention spans, and it's natural that many people would focus more on animation than writing.
Writing still matters obviously, otherwise shows like Freiren (which did have great animation to be clear) and Apothecary Diaries wouldn't be as popular as they have been, but I think there's a reason shows like Kingdom aren't nearly as talked about as OPM or MHA
ColourWheel said:
Primary school level criticism, requires 3 basic fucking things:
Watching the whole fucking show
Remembering shit that actually happened even 3 episodes ago
Explaining shit like motivations, themes, pacing, etc...
Primary school level criticism, requires 3 basic fucking things:
Watching the whole fucking show
Remembering shit that actually happened even 3 episodes ago
Explaining shit like motivations, themes, pacing, etc...
Honestly this especially I agree with. Many have mentioned there's a growing increase of people that watch anime nowadays/more casual anime watchers, which is awesome for the industry, but invites way more shallow takes (similar to stuff like sports for example). Add how society has shifted towards more instant gratification and shorter attention spans, and it's natural that many people would focus more on animation than writing.
Writing still matters obviously, otherwise shows like Freiren (which did have great animation to be clear) and Apothecary Diaries wouldn't be as popular as they have been, but I think there's a reason shows like Kingdom aren't nearly as talked about as OPM or MHA
OGHelios said: Regardless of how popular Diaries is I still think Kingdom would struggle to gain huge audiences in the West, even if it didn't get a bad adaption for S1. Diaries still isn't a show your average casual watches, at least in my mind. Chinese history is a hard sell to your average Westerner (their loss though). Writing still matters obviously, otherwise shows like Freiren (which did have great animation to be clear) and Apothecary Diaries wouldn't be as popular as they have been, but I think there's a reason shows like Kingdom aren't nearly as talked about as OPM or MHA Still having a good adaption for S1 (OPM and MHA have been fucked over animation wise in the past) is very important for popularity. Anyway the world might reward "instant gratification" I still don't think Wiru is right. Like where was this ideal period of thoughtful media analysis? People always had shallow takes on media, the internet just brings more of those people to the fold. Plus I am pretty sure hours long videos on pop culture is a contributor to a loss of attention span...at least a loss from what actually matters in someone's life. |
BilboBaggins365Dec 7, 11:39 PM
Reply to plebrepel
@Merve2Love
I myself like Gleipnir for slipping you bits of its story with plushsuit docking action. It wouldn't work with only animation of -that-. Or I mean not as an anime. Not as an above new-average anime.
Mahouako would be far less appealing without the protagonist's personality. That very much is a plot important show not carried only by animation. I would still like it as a slideshow, nary, a picture drama. I like me some good picture drama. Code Geass has good picture drama. Know what picture drama has very little of? Animation.
When you try to do animation and nothing else you get wastes of talent like solo leveling and dandy.
I myself like Gleipnir for slipping you bits of its story with plushsuit docking action. It wouldn't work with only animation of -that-. Or I mean not as an anime. Not as an above new-average anime.
Mahouako would be far less appealing without the protagonist's personality. That very much is a plot important show not carried only by animation. I would still like it as a slideshow, nary, a picture drama. I like me some good picture drama. Code Geass has good picture drama. Know what picture drama has very little of? Animation.
When you try to do animation and nothing else you get wastes of talent like solo leveling and dandy.
| @plebrepel I don't say you can't like a certain aspect of an Anime, regardless. You do you. You found something worth watching where I couldn't. That's good. Facts are facts tho: - If Gleipnir didn't have the plushsuit docking action it would be nothing. It's carried by that. It's not carried by the clever story. - If Mahouako wasn't about sexy Ecchi/Yuri stuff, people would not like it that much. And that's fine! Enjoy it. But lets not pretend we actually care about "the writing" in these. We don't. That's not what they were made for or why people like them. EDIT: Dandy is about animation and nothing else? I advice a re-watch. It has more heart and thought put into it than all the Shows we just talked about combined. |
Merve2LoveDec 8, 12:19 AM
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| It's simply much easier to criticize bad art and animation, since it's obvious to everyone. Writing can be more subjective than animation, so it's harder to criticize. So shows with bad art and animation will always be criticized first and foremost for that. But shows with bad writing and good art and animation are still criticized for bad writing. Recent examples being "Rent a girlfriend 4" or "Katainaka no Ossan, Kensei ni Naru". |
Reply to Merve2Love
What change?
Looks were always more celebrated than everything else. Animation and Fanservice always were able to elevate a Show, not matter how shitty the rest might be.
Stop acting like you're a true fan, who only cares about intricate, clever writing and we are all casuals xD
We can see your list:
-> You gave Gleipnir a 9!
Is it because the story is so amazing? Is it because it's really going deep with it's storytelling?
No, it's because of shitty fanservice every 2 Minutes, a fetishized relationship between a male, submissive Protag and a girl AND because the Animation is good.
-> You LOVE Kill La Kill.
A Show that is legendary, mainly because of its Style.
-> Gushing over Magical Girls is in your favorites.
What's the appeal of this Show, dude? Is it its plot-structure and good writing? 😂
-> Thristy Girls who only appear on screen for ecchi scenes and horny one-liners are some of the BEST character you've ever seen, according to your profile. What are talking about you don't understand how everbody is into style over substance?
You are one of them!
For the most part you enjoy the horndog, simple stuff that looks good. That's fine. No need to pretend. That's your taste.
You like what a twelve year old, who watches Anime, would like. You're NOT into writing, that much. Watching Haibane Renmei won't change that.
And that's okay.... just stop it. *sigh*
Looks were always more celebrated than everything else. Animation and Fanservice always were able to elevate a Show, not matter how shitty the rest might be.
Stop acting like you're a true fan, who only cares about intricate, clever writing and we are all casuals xD
We can see your list:
-> You gave Gleipnir a 9!
Is it because the story is so amazing? Is it because it's really going deep with it's storytelling?
No, it's because of shitty fanservice every 2 Minutes, a fetishized relationship between a male, submissive Protag and a girl AND because the Animation is good.
-> You LOVE Kill La Kill.
A Show that is legendary, mainly because of its Style.
-> Gushing over Magical Girls is in your favorites.
What's the appeal of this Show, dude? Is it its plot-structure and good writing? 😂
-> Thristy Girls who only appear on screen for ecchi scenes and horny one-liners are some of the BEST character you've ever seen, according to your profile. What are talking about you don't understand how everbody is into style over substance?
You are one of them!
For the most part you enjoy the horndog, simple stuff that looks good. That's fine. No need to pretend. That's your taste.
You like what a twelve year old, who watches Anime, would like. You're NOT into writing, that much. Watching Haibane Renmei won't change that.
And that's okay.... just stop it. *sigh*
| I'm just giving you the heads up that this is the third time you make a post like this only for harassment rather than for wanting an answer. The next time, I'll report you for that. Your choice. Merve2Love said: -> You gave Gleipnir a 9! Is it because the story is so amazing? Is it because it's really going deep with it's storytelling? No, it's because of shitty fanservice every 2 Minutes, a fetishized relationship between a male, submissive Protag and a girl AND because the Animation is good. I really liked how the story expanded, I loved how it apparently started right in the middle, so there's all this mystery surrouding the circumstances of our characters. I absolutely love the monster designs and I love the relationship between the two main protagonists. I love the character of Claire, a character whose personality is initially presented as "typical insane girl", but that we learn throughout the story that's just survivor's guilt and a feeling of lack of self-worth. Granted, most of it is in the manga. I think that the anime's artstyle made the characters more distinct, but it lost it's monster design aesthetic in return.  Merve2Love said: -> Gushing over Magical Girls is in your favorites. What's the appeal of this Show, dude? Is it its plot-structure and good writing? 😂 Unironically yes. After you go receive your retirement money, perhaps you should read my blogpost in it:https://myanimelist.net/blog.php?eid=908356 Actually, let me just quote the most relevant parts of it, which were Twitter threads I had written back in the day: It's Non-Ecchi Qualities For an ecchi series, it's quite surprising how much of the art of it online is of the characters being either casual or lovey-dovey. MahoAko is an ecchi, but it isn't JUST an ecchi, with it's fanservice scenes often telling us something about our characters, one of my favorite examples being the (Anime original) scene of Kiwi being visited by Venalita when she's about post a photo of her naked online, or her tearing up after an "after-care" with Utena. All those scenes serve to further explore her personality and relationship with others, as someone who's in need to validation and becomes madly in love with the first person she thought brought her a form or true love. MahoAko is FULL of such things, every character is interesting in their own way and form their own dynamics: Magenta pairs well with Korisu as the former is THE mahou shoujo ideal while the latter is just a kid that doesn't do anything she does out of any sense of malice, but rather of just wanting to play. Sulfur and Kiwi pair well as the former accepts the cynicism of having to play a character to maintain a nice image while the latter, being a villain, has the freedom to just express her (Arguably similar) personality — the "good side" is very exclusive, but the "evil side" has room for all!. Finally, Azure pairs well with Utena as the former can't have the same cynicism as Sulfur to accept the farce of playing a character (MahoAko really works with the Idol Culture roots of mahou shoujo, after all), yet at the same time can't deal well with the fact that she's an imperfect hero with her own vices (Well, fetishes, in this case), while Utena, with the form of Magia Baiser, uses her own vices as her strength. Honestly, it's easier for me to just quote a thread I made about it at the time: thewiru said: [M]ahoAko might beg the question "Isn't the entire point of it to threat Utena and Baiser as different people, like her dialogue with Kiwi implies?", but I see it as the other way around:  Magia Baiser is basically Utena with high T, an idealized version of her, the Batman to her Bruce Wayne. Magia Baiser initially acts like and avatar and an outlet to a subconscious part of Utena that she still doesn't understand very well, one which she can go "all out" without worrying about guilt or consequences for her actions (Though she will initially still feel massive guilt after the fact).  She is shown to be the only character where this seems to happen (Leoparde doesn't act different from Kiwi, nor Neroalice from Korisu), so Baiser is a way of her mind to cope with her desires and the shame she feels from them, similar to how IRL split-personalities are also often a way for someone to cope with something.  With time, however, we see the gap between the two "narrowing" (The scene where she Trans-Magia's from lust alone is very iconic in that regard), from reading S&M magazines in her spare time to also fantasizing about it. Magia Baiser continues to be "her ideal self" in regards to self-confidence and what not, but her sexual issue is mostly solved, in that way Baiser being an "expanded" version of Utena rather than a whole different person.  Her scene with Magia Azure on episode 8 being biggest example of that: Venalita was wrong, Utena DOES admire magical girls rather than just "thinking she does because of her sadistic fetish", her love for magical girls and her sadism are never at odds with one another, but rather COMPLEMENT one another. The "kid Utena that screams "ganbare"" isn't absent inside Baiser, but rather you could say that Baiser is the grown up version of her: There's never a conflict inside Baiser between her sadism and her love for magical girls, therefore she never compromises anything. When there was a situation where one side conflicted with the other, she never, for a moment was conflicted with which side she should choose, but rather did it one a second as if she was decided on the answer her entire life (Because SHE WAS). Azure was the one with that problem, not her.   Rather than presenting sexuality as an issue that will lead one to ruin, Baiser acts like "a hero of it" and chastises Azure for failing at it. Keeping with the Batman analogy: Like like the Joker was wrong and "just one bad day" doesn't make anyone a villain, neither does sexuality.    The single exception the anime presents about it would be Utena's grades dropping because she just keeps reading porn, but in her defense I just call that "being a teenager".  Though MahoAko currently sits at a 10/10 at the time of writing this blog post, it wasn't always like this: I either initially gave it an 8 or a 9, but with time had to give it a 10/10 after noticing that "Damn, it does have layers to it, huh?". There are also things such as the anime expanding certain things on the manga, having background characters well drawn and with character designs that could've easily have been part of the secondary cast (Shout-out to The Lady at the Fruit and Vegetable Store) (And believe me, that kind of thing is rare in anime), having good and interesting character designs in general or simply having good voice-acting. All of them were already accounted for in that eight or nine, what brought the ten, what made me realize such layers was... a Twitter post of a scene in the later episodes where Utena, untransformed, spreads Magia Azure's genitalia. My mind "activated" and started reflecting in the implications of the character dynamics in that scene in a way that is closer to poetry than an essay — Once more, it's simpler for me to just quote myself: thewiru said: A detail that is overlooked: Utena doesn't know that this is her classmate, nor is she "unbound" by the mask of transformation (For a disguise does not hide, it reveals). From her point of view, she's a mortal sexually touching a divine being.  RIGHT? The "demon" motif she wears exists for a reason: She's corrupting divinity itself, perfection itself, Michelangelo's David in the form of a cute girl. For her to realize it was Sayo would be akin to figure out that you "accidentally dropped a bomb on your own people". The closest analogy I can muster (That isn't simply a hentai doujin where a character realizes they unknowingly raped a relative) would probably be Renton's arc in Eureka Seven where he realized "Oh wait, I've been killing actual people whenever I destroyed a mecha all this time". The extremely expressive art of the manga can be summarized in a single word/concept: "Ecstasy". A "divine being" is something Utena doesn't have to hold herself back, she can go all out 100% of the time. Reminds me of the Ruuko-Iona dynamic in Selector Infected WIXOSS.  Considering that Selector Infected WIXOSS is my favorite anime, giving it a 10/10 was almost automatic after that. Conclusion Uhh, watch MahoAko, it's good, I like it quite a lot. |
BilboBaggins365 said: People always had shallow takes on media, the internet just brings more of those people to the fold. Plus I am pretty sure hours long videos on pop culture is a contributor to a loss of attention span...at least a loss from what actually matters in someone's life. This shit actually reminds me of something I caught while randomly scrolling YouTube on the in-dash touchscreen in my Lexus LS sedan while parked in a downtown parking garage, right after getting out of an appointment. I was just killing time because I didn’t feel like driving during the most chaotic part of rush hour traffic. So I stayed parked for another hour, pulled a Red Bull out of the built-in cooler in the back seat, and grabbed a snack pack of random potato chips kept next to it, then just started watching the 1st random videos that showed up in the search. This one video in particular caught my attention because it made me laugh my ass off, to the point where I lightly spilled my drink on the sleeve of my blazer and almost had it shoot out of my nose. As the video started wrapping up... narration over clips, screenshots, and some extremely selective examples... it finally showed who had been speaking the whole time. That’s when it got fucking hilarious for me. The fucking guy looked like a straight-up kid. I mean, he didn’t even look half my age. lol The way the little fucker was narrating everything made it sound like he personally lived through shit in the 80s, 90s, and early 2000s... even though he probably wasn’t even a shit stain in his daddy's ball sack when "Agent AIka" dropped in Japan. lol I mean, their take on anime history was not only hilariously shallow, even from a Western perspective, but mostly fucking wrong too... perfect example of the shallow takes you mentioned. Thankfully I keep a shit ton of Wet-naps in the glove compartment to clean up accidental messes like that in my car. lol So yeah, hours-long video shit can totally suck up someone's attention, even if the shit is just harmless, exactly like you said. lol |
ColourWheelDec 8, 11:55 AM
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| @Merve2Love Yeah I saw Dandy while it was airing and dropped it around 6 episodes in. I thought the plots of each episode were musable at best and had bad low points (zombie one for instance). Later I figured I was being too stringy and should take it the same as the animator expo shorts and tried again. It is very boring to me. I'm not looking for some intricate complexities or heart crushing dramas - it was a weightless plot with a desert where jokes/gags are supposed to go. The animation didn't strike me as anything special (not quality, just I-want-to-have-this special. the anime "Avenger" is not anything of note but there are parts that make me want it around, like the 1st fight or the doll walk cycles in the ED. Neither of those are meticulous visual marvels they just impress me to the point of being special. Dandy had nothing like that. If anything Dandy had some of what I hate like the fight with the beams. Beams are usually cool. Their beams are those beams I never want to see near an anime I like). The most impressive thing I remember is the episode with tidal water and surfing but from a they-animated-this standpoint. It wasn't much entertaining. Like a whoa they animated 200 individual sparks for this firecracker but what for? I didn't like Dandy be it story, characters, or animation. They succeeded putting jiggling boobs and butts on the screen that do nothing for me. I'm sure I won't like it if I try watching it again. It is as unappealing to me as Apocalypse Hotel. Shallow characters. Benign activities. I had fun watching Saten-san pick out a ricecooker do you understand? |
plebrepelDec 8, 1:04 AM
| @Stanis150 Part of the waste for solo leveling was that it had uncensored guro for once. While it is not a feat of animation that Dandy technically is it is a wasted opportunity to do something grand. The other part is that even though used a lot of cuts it was easy to follow the action. The worst thing about giving animators free reign is what happens over at MAPPA which did not happen in solo leveling. @thewiru don't be a fruit waving around reports scares away anything of interest that may otherwise get posted and getting a ban on something fickle like that is pathetic. Seeing all the posts of deleted users is lonely. |
Reply to plebrepel
@Merve2Love Yeah I saw Dandy while it was airing and dropped it around 6 episodes in. I thought the plots of each episode were musable at best and had bad low points (zombie one for instance).
Later I figured I was being too stringy and should take it the same as the animator expo shorts and tried again. It is very boring to me. I'm not looking for some intricate complexities or heart crushing dramas - it was a weightless plot with a desert where jokes/gags are supposed to go. The animation didn't strike me as anything special (not quality, just I-want-to-have-this special. the anime "Avenger" is not anything of note but there are parts that make me want it around, like the 1st fight or the doll walk cycles in the ED. Neither of those are meticulous visual marvels they just impress me to the point of being special. Dandy had nothing like that. If anything Dandy had some of what I hate like the fight with the beams. Beams are usually cool. Their beams are those beams I never want to see near an anime I like). The most impressive thing I remember is the episode with tidal water and surfing but from a they-animated-this standpoint. It wasn't much entertaining. Like a whoa they animated 200 individual sparks for this firecracker but what for?
I didn't like Dandy be it story, characters, or animation.
They succeeded putting jiggling boobs and butts on the screen that do nothing for me.
I'm sure I won't like it if I try watching it again. It is as unappealing to me as Apocalypse Hotel. Shallow characters. Benign activities. I had fun watching Saten-san pick out a ricecooker do you understand?
Later I figured I was being too stringy and should take it the same as the animator expo shorts and tried again. It is very boring to me. I'm not looking for some intricate complexities or heart crushing dramas - it was a weightless plot with a desert where jokes/gags are supposed to go. The animation didn't strike me as anything special (not quality, just I-want-to-have-this special. the anime "Avenger" is not anything of note but there are parts that make me want it around, like the 1st fight or the doll walk cycles in the ED. Neither of those are meticulous visual marvels they just impress me to the point of being special. Dandy had nothing like that. If anything Dandy had some of what I hate like the fight with the beams. Beams are usually cool. Their beams are those beams I never want to see near an anime I like). The most impressive thing I remember is the episode with tidal water and surfing but from a they-animated-this standpoint. It wasn't much entertaining. Like a whoa they animated 200 individual sparks for this firecracker but what for?
I didn't like Dandy be it story, characters, or animation.
They succeeded putting jiggling boobs and butts on the screen that do nothing for me.
I'm sure I won't like it if I try watching it again. It is as unappealing to me as Apocalypse Hotel. Shallow characters. Benign activities. I had fun watching Saten-san pick out a ricecooker do you understand?
| @plebrepel Agree to disagree. I thought there were no boring storys. It was just good fun and surprisingly emotional, at times. And how can you see the good in an Anime like Mahouako, that is so tacky and on the nose, but Dandy is weightless and not meticulous enough. How are you complaining about boobs and butts jiggling, but Mahouako is a good Drama? xD Cmon^^ That seems wrong. I can understand that Dandy might not be for everyone and the Gag-Humor is hit or miss. In every other sense, tho, I think it's just a better quality product overall and I don't think Animation alone is what makes it fun. Sure...it's important. I give you that. |
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| @Merve2Love How can Dandy appear weightless while Mahouako does not? I can't explain it easily immediately but it definitely comes down to character quality, character sale, and interaction. But I wasn't complaining about the boobies and butts being there! I was complaining they lacked ero impact. Drawn without a dream. Like me drawing 2 giant circles. It wasn't lewd. |
Reply to plebrepel
@Merve2Love How can Dandy appear weightless while Mahouako does not? I can't explain it easily immediately but it definitely comes down to character quality, character sale, and interaction.
But I wasn't complaining about the boobies and butts being there! I was complaining they lacked ero impact. Drawn without a dream. Like me drawing 2 giant circles. It wasn't lewd.
But I wasn't complaining about the boobies and butts being there! I was complaining they lacked ero impact. Drawn without a dream. Like me drawing 2 giant circles. It wasn't lewd.
| @plebrepel I can't say I fully understand^^ Maybe it really is just a style thing we disagree on. I prefer Dandys style. You don't. Good discussion. Seeya. |
|
plebrepel said: @thewiru don't be a fruit waving around reports scares away anything of interest that may otherwise get posted and getting a ban on something fickle like that is pathetic. Seeing all the posts of deleted users is lonely. @plebrepel LMFAO. Reports should be a private fucking matter anyways. If someone’s butthurt enough to hit the report button, fine... that shit should be between them and the mods. There’s zero fucking reason for anyone to come into a conversation and start swinging that shit around like a laminated hall pass screaming, “I’m telling mommy on you.” lol Anyways, mods would likely read that kind of behavior as less of a “concern” and more like someone trying to weaponize authority as a vibe check. That’s not fucking protection... it’s social chlorine. You dump it in the pool and suddenly everyone clears out, including the people who were actually swimming in the shit. lol If someone wants moderation, let moderation happen. Turning reports into a public threat just sterilizes discussion, stacks up deleted user posts, and leaves the thread feeling like an abandoned mall food court at 9:47 PM. lol Another way to put it... That's not keeping shit clean either... it just turns any thread into looking more like a retarded dyslexic stream of diarrhea than an actual organic conversation. lol |
ColourWheelDec 8, 3:00 AM
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