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| I have to respect Draka's courage in this episode. She's not built to be a fighter but takes chances at what she sees. It's kinda crazy what Nowak has been going through this arc. Schmidt got hit from behind so fate was not on his side this time. Draka still tries to resolve problems through words. Feels like this anime is heading towards its climax soon. |
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| That was a complete loss for Nowak. All he did in his last 20+ years was disappear into thin air within just one night. |
真姫ちゃん！ 何が好き？ トマト よりも あ･な･た♡  |
| RIP Schmidt. You completed your duty. Draka reached Bishop Antoni and after negotiations with him, she was given permission to publish the book at a profit margin of 80/20. Pretty bad deal but it is what it is. She can't do better than that. As for Nowak, he's here and is being given a lesson from the Bishop who actually executed his daughter. I hope he tells him that his daughter fled the scene and it was all set-up but idk how Nowak will handle that. And, now Nowak is dealing with all the executions he did to protect the Church. |
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| Yet again another episode that just pushes this further to that AOTY spot. What a twist and set of events. RIP Schmidt, he and the others’ sacrifices should finally ensure that Heliocentrism and all the work that started over 25 years ago will finally go public. When he told Draka that for the first time ever he was scared I got pure chills. You can talk about being brave all you want man but going into a situation you know you’re going to die in has to be so scary. The conviction to carry that out is nothing short of heroic. I did NOT expect what came next though in a million years. Going to the heart of the enemy, Antoni’s church and asking for his help?! Draka is brave as hell. This showed why it HAD to be her to survive because no one is as business savvy and money crazy as she is.. besides Antoni. She knew she could reach him if it were about profits given how he reacted when he discovered the uncle that night. Brilliant gambit paid off. “It’s about the movements of the earth” Hey, they said the thing! Feel awful for Nowak though. Antoni is the reason he and his daughter got separated and you’re telling a man who just watched his daughter off herself over Heliocentrism after finally finding her again, that it was all for nothing. All those bright young lives Nowak snuffed out were nothing more than a “misunderstanding” and he won’t even be remembered by history because the files are gone? What does he even have to show for life if he has no record, no daughter and didn’t even stop the spread of Heliocentrism? I’d be very surprised if he doesn’t try to kill Antoni next episode because he has NOTHING to lose. Incredible episode as per |
Marinate1016Feb 22, 9:26 AM
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| "When it comes to you and the heretics you executed... neither of you will be known to history." What a twist of fate for Nowak, and the fact that this overshadowed what happened to Schmitt in the very same episode, now that's amazing. The pain that Nowak experienced when he realized that his whole career was effectively erased must have been overwhelming to bear. It's ironic that Bishop Antoni was the one to defend heliocentrism in the end just felt like a slap in the face for Nowak. He was a victim of the system, and that vicious system shows absolutely no mercy for someone like him. When money is on the table, morals gets tossed away to the wayside, and we're seeing that firsthand. Now, I wonder just how Nowak will respond to this... |
Reply to iamkillingmyself
nowak got really humbled man
rip schmidt
rip schmidt
| @iamkillingmyself Yeah, and thats not even until he realizes he just seen his daughter blow up. |
| If Nowak gets to know the truth about his daughter (which I expect to happen, as he's still relevant in the story despite all these chances to end his development), it will be very hard to watch. I did not expect the Antoni to change his mind so fast, but it seems like he shares the same value with Draka: money. |
 Big fan of Magi: The Labyrinth of Magic universe. |
| This doesn't feel right. What Antoni is saying is correct and I respect him for having that opinion. I find it hard to believe that such an open minded bishop would exist in that era, but it's not impossible. Yet the idea that there was never a problem to solve (or rather it was so small scale) goes against what the show has stood for so far. It's basically devaluing the importance of everyone's action (including their sacrifices) to villainise someone we don't know anything about. Misunderstandings are one of my most hated plot devices and, as I see it, they have just revealed that the foundation of story is a brittle as glass. I was already not a big fan of this show and this episode might have made the difference. The final 3 episodes are unlikely to change my opinion, but I will keep an open mind (like Antoni). (At first I thought Antoni was too greedy to reject and he would just execute Draka after securing the profits. That would make more sense.) (Edit: Rather, I think that would be more appropriate for what I thought the story was about.) |
gorkthe134thFeb 22, 9:53 AM
| It's comforting in a bittersweet way knowing Schmidt spent his final moments yapping like he always did until the very end. If only he could've praised the sun one last time too. RIP Hearing Hubert, Rafal, Oczy and Badeni's names again decades after their deaths was chilling enough but it coming from their executioner's mouth made it hit that much harder. Whatever happens as a result of Nowak snapping, I just hope Antoni bears the brunt of it. |
Reply to The_Spectre_01
@gorkthe134th I respect your opinion but misunderstandings have let to tragedies in human history. Your last two sentences make it seem like you think Antoni supports heliocentrism. He's indifferent towards it. He only cares about status and money. That's how he's portrayed anyway.
The_Spectre_01 said: Your last two sentences make it seem like you think Antoni supports heliocentrism. True, I could have phrased that better. Edit: Misspelled "phrased". You don't phase through your ideas, you phrase them. |
gorkthe134thFeb 22, 9:52 AM
| I was not expecting this turn of events! Before that, that final talk between Draka and Schmitt really came from the bottom of Schmitt's heart, since he gained a lot of respect towards Draka, and wanted her to be able to appreciate the beauty that Nature offered. It's official, Nowak has killed the main protagonist of each generation (Rafal, then Oczy and Badeni, and finally Schmitt). This man has been chasing Heliocentrism ever since episode 1. It has been 35 years since then. Honestly, I thought Schmitt would give more of a fight, but it's understandable he was off, since he was lost ever since he decided his own fate, and was taking responsabilities for his own fate. Draka straight up went to meet Antoni, and proposed him to collaborate with her in writing the heliocentrism book. And he actually accepted. Crazy. We have been running from the church all this time, and in the end it was the solution for the problem all along. It seems that, in reality, the Church doesn't really have anything against heliocentrism anymore. It was something that the prior bishop was against to, but it doesn't have any source for that reasoning. In fact, as of now, only Nowak was surpressing this ideology. Antoni explaining this to Nowak and Nowak understanding he doesn't really have a reason for anything he has done, and that he has been used by the prior Bishop for this... It's something I wasn't expecting. He still remembers quite well the name of the people he executed, but the truth is that that isn't recorded anywhere, and so, he and the herectics he executed won't be historical figures. Obviously, Antoni couldn't care less for the herectics that were killed because of heliocentrism, he just wants the money from the books, but this whole section shows that the ideologies of faith vary depending of who is interpreting it. The Holy Scriptures are something really vague, that can be interpreted in many ways, and now Antoni has decided they will be interpreted in a way that support heliocentrism. It's interesting, because we are getting back to an idea from the beginning of the anime, that is heliocentrism makes the universe more perfect, which would make "God's creation" perfected, that aligns more to what the Holy Scripture states and what people believe God's intentions to be. Hubert was right all along. Heliocentrism is the more perfect way to look at what God has created. Only 3 episodes to go. Can't believe this journey is coming to an end. Is heliocentrism finally being released? It seems like we are closer than ever to that objective! Also, hearing the opening again, after finally hearing the full song, hits different! |
| Absolute peak thought I think they could have made the seen with Nowak more dramatic. |
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| The big twist is out here! cant wait to see how they will adapt next episode which should be the best one of the whole series in my opinion |
| Okay, am I misunderstanding something? After all this time, all these deaths, all the struggle, we're now supposed to believe that heliocentrism was only blasphemy in some narrow area within Poland? And elsewhere it was totally okay to talk about heliocentrism? I must be misunderstanding something, because I'm pretty sure that heliocentrism was blasphemy in all of the Christian parts of the world up to a certain point in time. What a weird "twist" to go for. |
| If you haven't watched "Fantastic Children", don't talk about "best anime". Thank you. |
| Episode 22 on the 22nd yeah Series title drop Episode title drop Both were awesome Well we can't exactly take Antoni's word for granted can we? He might just be fucking with Nowak to get out of that situation. I expect the latter to crash out and set everything on fire but the possible alternative doesn't seem bad to me either. |
Reply to Paharo05
Why are people sayong everything was because of a misunderstanding? That guy who hated heliocentrism knew what he was doing and its consequences. It wasn't a misunderstanding. It was very effective manipulation
| @Paharo05 The bigger problem is that the entire struggle against the church, as well as all those deaths were pointless, because it would of just solved itself. No one solved it, it just solved itself. Times would of changed anyway and Rafael as well as everyone would both be alive and able to study heliocentrism if they just waited a few years. It makes their decision to defy the church, in retrospect, seem like a fools choice. |
| Wow, this episode was not only careful but surprisingly thorough in its delivery. Not only was the bishop open to the profitable idea by Draka after she offered a perspective based on profits and the idea of heliocentricism not being the truth but a theory among many which shouldn't be supressed at first glance, then he was able to counter all of Nowak's arguments. He has had a life that was utterly derranged by the concept but more so by the way he interpreted it to come against his ideals. Just imagine if we had someone like this bishop every time someone on the internet gives a shit take. But yeah, this isn't really the way I was expecting it to go and now I'm not sure what will become of this 3 episodes. Will the book actually be published? Will Nowak commit suicide? Will it end on a cliffhanger? Ah, this is so good. |
| ⠓⠥⠍⠁⠝⠊⠞⠽ ⠞⠓⠗⠕⠥⠛⠓ ⠎⠕⠍⠑ ⠎⠞⠥⠏⠊⠙⠊⠞⠽⠂ ⠎⠕⠍⠑ ⠺⠊⠇⠇ ⠎⠅⠊⠏ ⠺⠁⠎⠓⠊⠝⠛ ⠞⠓⠑⠊⠗ ⠓⠁⠝⠙⠎ ⠁⠝⠙ ⠑⠝⠙ ⠥⠏ ⠗⠥⠊⠝⠊⠝⠛ ⠊ ⠞ ⠋⠕⠗ ⠑⠧⠑⠗⠽⠕⠝⠑ ⠎⠓⠊⠊⠅⠕ ⠁⠕⠎⠕⠊⠂ ⠼⠃⠼⠚⠼⠁⠼⠓ |
| First-rate plot twist. |
*kappa* |
| Im already seeing some discourse and opinions about the twist and how this story is going to end. Since I loved the manga so much, Im already kinda expecting some controversial opinions toward these few last episodes. I hope everyone will enjoy them in any case, though. |
Reply to watsym
@Paharo05 The bigger problem is that the entire struggle against the church, as well as all those deaths were pointless, because it would of just solved itself. No one solved it, it just solved itself.
Times would of changed anyway and Rafael as well as everyone would both be alive and able to study heliocentrism if they just waited a few years. It makes their decision to defy the church, in retrospect, seem like a fools choice.
Times would of changed anyway and Rafael as well as everyone would both be alive and able to study heliocentrism if they just waited a few years. It makes their decision to defy the church, in retrospect, seem like a fools choice.
| @watsym watsym said: Times would of changed anyway and Rafael as well as everyone would both be alive and able to study heliocentrism if they just waited a few years. It makes their decision to defy the church, in retrospect, seem like a fools choice. Well, it has been long time since Rafal's death and relatively long time after Badeni's/Oczy's death. I suppose you did not mean "few years" in a literal way, but it's worth noting that there were a few timeskips in the meantime. The death of the previous bishop was uncertain, information/knowledge is spreading slowly in such times and church's doctrine remains stable. It's just Antoni's decision to ignore it (for the money), but he's aware that some people (from the church) could take it offensively. He stated that in case of trouble, Draka will take the consequences. Imagine people like Nowak hearing about it without anyone with position nearby to neutralise it. I doubt Antoni will defend it as well if the accusations become too hard to handle. |
| Big fan of Magi: The Labyrinth of Magic universe. |
| once again it was wonderful i was not ready to heard that he almost did that for nothing,wow a Real masterpiece, everybody is talking about it now but not everybody was there since day one!!! |
| PLEASE STOP RATING!!! less than 4 means that you don't know how to judge Anime / Manga!!! best recom on https://www.instagram.com/otakuweek?igsh=em5kY3Q4NTVtNXlh or Discord https://discord.gg/vbZrk64uH7 |
| What a bitter end for Nowak... Honestly I was expecting him to crash out on Antoni but he's clearly too old for this shit. |
| I have read 2 perfect chapters of manga; They are Usogui Chapter 203 and Onani Master Kurosawa Chapter 23. Slam Dunk Chapters 272 to 276 are a perfect stretch of manga. |
| What an absolute masterpiece of an episode. Rest in peace, Schmitt. You felt fear for the first time, but you did your duty: protect Draka and heliocentrism. It really wasn't Nowak's day. Imagine thinking you're fighting for a noble cause, only to find and kill heretic after heretic, question everything they believed in, do your duty to even cause your daughter's life to be harmed by making you believe she died for the very thing you opposed, only for it all to be one big misunderstanding and your mission to be forgotten. That said, Nowak was the only one who truly pursued heliocentrism, but the church itself never stopped condemning him. He was just another pawn moved by those in power. That's the real tragedy. Nowak and Antoni are similar in a way: one is a literal mercenary, the other an ideologue who changes beliefs when it suits him. Neither really had a real ideal. And that whole excuse of "it was just a misunderstanding." Classic political rhetoric. It's just a way of saying, "Oh, you all got it wrong," when in reality, they were taking advantage of it to consolidate their power. |
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| Looks like Nowack was the real MC to only have a tragic revelation. |
 Behold of my awesomeness~ controversial and/or sensitive topics likely devolve into the same repetitive, derogatory, abusive, and harassing comments can no longer be posted. But my feels. |
Reply to phantomfandom
I'm so impressed by this episode. Draka convincing Antoni almost like the serpent convince Eve to eat the forbidden apple, it's just so symbolic. Of course, the highlight is Nowak which need no explanation from me, his reaction say it all.
| @phantomfandom Ah, and that’s why the ED’s title is named "Snake" or "Hebi" in Japanese. |
|
Reply to watsym
@Paharo05 The bigger problem is that the entire struggle against the church, as well as all those deaths were pointless, because it would of just solved itself. No one solved it, it just solved itself.
Times would of changed anyway and Rafael as well as everyone would both be alive and able to study heliocentrism if they just waited a few years. It makes their decision to defy the church, in retrospect, seem like a fools choice.
Times would of changed anyway and Rafael as well as everyone would both be alive and able to study heliocentrism if they just waited a few years. It makes their decision to defy the church, in retrospect, seem like a fools choice.
| @watsym The times would have absolutely not changed if everyone had just waited around. We even see Antoni reject the notion of heliocentrism when Draka first brings it up, almost by instinct. If it were any other bishop from that region, they would have stopped there without ever thinking if it actually was blasphemy and simply labelled her as a heretic. The only reason Antoni came around to heliocentrism was because someone as pragmatic and prospicient as Draka was able to convince him through her logic. Her earlier encounter with him told him just how useful her ideas could be for the status and future of the church and that is what let Draka get an audience with him. And Draka, who previously shied away from sharing the book, laid her logic bare after having her convictions molded and solidified by Jolenta, Schmitt and the others. The conversation between them would not have happened if many earlier scenarios hadn't happened. Hubert led Rafal to research Heliocentrism and refine the model. Rafal's research led Oczy to Badeni, who used it as a basis to solve heliocentrism mathematically. Oczy's book, focused more on the culture rather than the academics, is what convinced Draka that it could be a hit with the masses and her sensibilities managed to convince the bishop. None of the characters we have followed have died in vain. Instead, like the show hammers on many time, they passed the torch to the next person till we reach the ideal scenario. |
| Nowak and those he killed were victims of fate? |
Reply to Adizcool
@watsym The times would have absolutely not changed if everyone had just waited around. We even see Antoni reject the notion of heliocentrism when Draka first brings it up, almost by instinct. If it were any other bishop from that region, they would have stopped there without ever thinking if it actually was blasphemy and simply labelled her as a heretic. The only reason Antoni came around to heliocentrism was because someone as pragmatic and prospicient as Draka was able to convince him through her logic. Her earlier encounter with him told him just how useful her ideas could be for the status and future of the church and that is what let Draka get an audience with him. And Draka, who previously shied away from sharing the book, laid her logic bare after having her convictions molded and solidified by Jolenta, Schmitt and the others. The conversation between them would not have happened if many earlier scenarios hadn't happened.
Hubert led Rafal to research Heliocentrism and refine the model. Rafal's research led Oczy to Badeni, who used it as a basis to solve heliocentrism mathematically. Oczy's book, focused more on the culture rather than the academics, is what convinced Draka that it could be a hit with the masses and her sensibilities managed to convince the bishop. None of the characters we have followed have died in vain. Instead, like the show hammers on many time, they passed the torch to the next person till we reach the ideal scenario.
Hubert led Rafal to research Heliocentrism and refine the model. Rafal's research led Oczy to Badeni, who used it as a basis to solve heliocentrism mathematically. Oczy's book, focused more on the culture rather than the academics, is what convinced Draka that it could be a hit with the masses and her sensibilities managed to convince the bishop. None of the characters we have followed have died in vain. Instead, like the show hammers on many time, they passed the torch to the next person till we reach the ideal scenario.
| @Adizcool If it were any other bishop from that region Except according to Antoni, this is the only region where such severe punishments were being carried out, so it was just the fault of the previous bishop and all other regions were already fine. Antoni doesn't really care to punish heliocentrism, he just had to ask himself why is heliocentrism bad and easily realized it wasn't a problem, not for him or for any other bishops from his knowledge. The force of oppression was just 1 bishop and he's gone now, still it left a scar on Nowak, we'll see next episode how that goes. |
Reply to watsym
@Adizcool
Except according to Antoni, this is the only region where such severe punishments were being carried out, so it was just the fault of the previous bishop and all other regions were already fine.
Antoni doesn't really care to punish heliocentrism, he just had to ask himself why is heliocentrism bad and easily realized it wasn't a problem, not for him or for any other bishops from his knowledge.
The force of oppression was just 1 bishop and he's gone now, still it left a scar on Nowak, we'll see next episode how that goes.
If it were any other bishop from that region
Except according to Antoni, this is the only region where such severe punishments were being carried out, so it was just the fault of the previous bishop and all other regions were already fine.
Antoni doesn't really care to punish heliocentrism, he just had to ask himself why is heliocentrism bad and easily realized it wasn't a problem, not for him or for any other bishops from his knowledge.
The force of oppression was just 1 bishop and he's gone now, still it left a scar on Nowak, we'll see next episode how that goes.
| @watsym Yeah, but the region we are talking about is still an entire country, the country of P as the anime calls it. Like Antoni said, it was simply bad luck that heliocentrism began to flourish under him, if it were to had happen before that, it could have been a different story. But the characters could not have gone backward in time for that. The things we saw were indeed due to the oppression of a single bishop and I do agree that all Antoni had to do was ask himself properly on why heliocentrism is bad. What I disagreed with is that that thought would not have happened just by waiting around. It is only because of the sacrifices of the people before and the torch being passed on to someone capable enough to debate him that he was able to properly think for himself instead of just instinctively dismissing it. And as he talks about the risks he need to take for the theory in the episode, the other bishops in the country probably are still harboring the same view formed from his father's actions. This is pure speculation on my part, but with how Antoni has been presented till now, I doubt there would have been many members of the church who would have laid their biases aside for a moment to properly think if something they believed to be blasphemy really was so. It's because Antoni doesn't actually care about punishing heliocentrism, or even heretical things for that matter, but just about status and money that he was able to think critically on this. I'm also very interested in where the show takes Nowak's character now. With his whole worldview crumbled, I can see his character evolving in any direction now. |
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