Attack on Titan
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UkRs said: Nice, so Connie and Amin will gladly kill their own people because its not evil but somehow murder of the masses which wanna wipe out Armin's people is bad? I don't think the show is making the argument that either side is completely just or unjust, the author created a airtight moral dilemma and the characters have to try to figure out what is (in their opinion) the lesser evil, letting billions die so that they can live in peace or trying to save billions of lives outside the walls which would potentially continue the global desire to wipe out the Eldians because the Rumbling would prove Willy Tybur right, that the Eldians pose a substantial threat to the rest of the world. UkRs said: Genocide is wrong? yes.. but I will gladly commit genocide if it saves my people... Who the fuck accepts their own death cause it will make others happy? I think that is the point of this whole arc, you said "I will gladly commit genocide if it saves my people" but that was Reiner's mentality when he orchestrated the destruction of the walls as a child, he wanted to eradicate the devils so the stigma around Marleyan Eldians could go away, but all he did was create more victims of war who wanted to eradicate Marley so the stigma around Eldians could go away. If the Alliance hadn't been established then the Non-Eldians on Paradis would have banded together and probably tried to take revenge on the current Paradis government, then more hatred and victims of war would ensue. Not to mention Paradis would probably have another civil war since they have them on quite a regular basis, two in the last five years, with one being started because of poor political decisions from politicians inside the walls which proves that a war could happen again even if the rest of the world has been eradicated, so the people in the walls will never see true peace. The Alliance (and probably also Eren from his conversation with Reiner) understands this, so regardless of the hypocrisy and illogical nature of their actions they want to band together to try to find a way out of this fundamental aspect of human nature and by your words "accepts their own death cause it will make others happy". Unfortunately it is a fundamental aspect of human nature, so I don't think there is any way they could fix it even if they did try. At the end of the day, this is such an utterly fucked up situation that all we can do is sit back and watch the world burn. |
HorseManPersonMar 14, 2022 12:07 AM
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| only 2 episodes left. I feel bad for Conny in being the one to shoot his friends. |
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UkRs said: Nice, so Connie and Amin will gladly kill their own people because its not evil but somehow murder of the masses which wanna wipe out Armin's people is bad? Please.. I'm begging at this point, tell me who the hell said that Armin and Connie killing Daz and Samuel isn't evil? Who's spreading these rumors? Connie was literally screaming in pain as he did that, he was hysterical. He had tears in his eyes, which part of that says not evil? His guilt is already eating away at him. They went unarmed and put up an act just to avoid killing people or to kill as few as possible because they said it themselves, some of those Jaegarists were their friends from the days they were cadets. Their intention was never to kill them, and when they did they never said it wasn't evil. How can most of you miss the point of this? |
samashi20Mar 14, 2022 12:30 AM
| I sometimes forget to finish my sentences. |
Alphonae said: No I am just telling about others. I am just adding to what you said.sammymahesh said: Like why do you care about it so much if it's trash for you? Why do you want to put your head in trash again? Lol. I hated GoT's ending. I stopped talking about it. I moved on. Don't make assumptions. I like AoT. |
on 
Modernoir said: Remember that the Great Titan War in the past was the result of Eldian infighting with the titan shifter powers being fought over between different families. The whole reason King Fritz (the one Tybur refers to) committed to his vow of renouncing war was because of the monstrosities his people causedin that entire conflict. You can see through Floch who gets hailed as a "chad" despite being a tragic character for how deluded he is by the effects of the cycle of violence that he misconstrues Erwin's phrase to unify humanity instead to support the pursuit of ignorance and embracing being a monster, justifying the world's fear of them in the first place. It's insane how many people knock the Alliance for actually wanting to put an end to that horrifying cycle, the point IS that they all have blood on their hands because of war, but even with that and their disagreements they can still attempt to fight towards a better future than Eren committing to his grave mistake. Eren has become the same evil as the Smiling Titan except even worse because he KNOWS his actions are wrong while committing to them, hence him telling Reiner "I'm the same as you." It's what makes him a great character but I also think the Allliance hate is tiring and glosses way too much over every part of the story that isn't Eren in a vacuum. Oh yes the great titan wars, the civil wars of eldian empire, did happen, bloodshed of which made Karl Fritz lose all hope in his empire, which then made him destroy it from within and create paradis. Hmm, i see. So it must be that he couldn't manipulate the memories of other great titans, so 8 great titans(excluding founding titan), like Ackermans cannot be brainwashed by founding titan. Oh that's why Frieda didn't just easily neuter Grisha in the cave. Hmm, makes sense makes sense. It's good when the story makes sense, and the established rules reinforce the events of the series. It's very good. |
Xilver said: Yeagerists are clowns, they were always depicted as such in this series, even in the battle in shiganshina they were worthless and had to release the avengers for those to actually help Eren, because they themselves couldn't do it. And that's a bad thing. Isayama spent 10 years showing both sides of every conflict properly, and then went on to depict one of the main sides of the final conflict in his series as absolute fucking buffoons, both when it comes to their capacity and how they are shown aesthetically, it was even worse in the manga. From an old lady humiliating Floch to avengers charging in heavily controlled enemy territory and well if it isn't obvious what's going to happen next, then you haven't been paying attention where this series is going. Samuel and Daz were a cheap addition in a cheap attempt to create a cheap drama for the sake of the illusion that there is an actual struggle between our old heroes, but they're insignificant background characters, nothing else. Because Isayama didn't have the balls to create an actual divide, a schism between the actual characters we were following for 4 seasons, can't have Mikasa kill Connie after all, that wouldn't look good. Instead all of Eren's friends are on one side, and that is the side you the viewer is supposed to support and cheer on. And if you're on the other side - you are watching this anime wrong, STOP, you are not supposed to support the wrong side, stop watching this series wrong, it won't end well for you. This was a prime avengers episode, i don't like the avengers, 2/5. Only replying to the first half, the second is your opinion which I respect and I'm not trying to argue with. I personally think writing Jaegarists as clowns was intentional. I mean what are they there for other than defending Eren and justifying his actions with obviously dirty methods? Nothing. They have no leadership, they strive on bullshit, and that's what's going to lead to their doom. As simple and easy as that. At first I thought there was no point in having them, but despite being useless as hell, they still depicted how the conflict cannot end with their mentality. Think about it, they do represent a large portion of the fandom, unfortunately, who think that violence, war and genocide are the answer. Whoever thinks they still need to pick a side this far into the story, they're wasting their time. |
| I sometimes forget to finish my sentences. |
samashi20 said: I personally think writing Jaegarists as clowns was intentional. I mean what are they there for other than defending Eren and justifying his actions with obviously dirty methods? Nothing. They have no leadership, they strive on bullshit, and that's what's going to lead to their doom. As simple and easy as that. At first I thought there was no point in having them, but despite being useless as hell, they still depicted how the conflict cannot end with their mentality. Think about it, they do represent a large portion of the fandom, unfortunately, who think that violence, war and genocide are the answer. Whoever thinks they still need to pick a side this far into the story, they're wasting their time. Yes, absolutely, they are intentionally made into clowns. But i don't like it. I don't believe it's good for the story at all to present one of its two major sides as just idiot-evil-useless-clowns. It cheapens the entire series, and the conflict itself. This series used to respect the conflicting forces, always. And yes, i do agree that from meta perspective it's Isayama taking a jab on what is generally known as the far right. And that is also something i don't like, and makes me respect his writing less. You are also correct about the author not really leaving a room for disagreement about which side is right, at least aesthetically. All i can add to this is that the clowning is not going to stop on the yeagerists themselves. The king clown is on the way. |
Xilver said: What more conflicts do you want?Zprotu said: well well well aren't you an edgelord Only if wanting a proper conflict between proper characters in a well-written manner makes you an edgelord. With both sides being respected. But then again, you thought mappa seriously elevated the source material in this season before the source material even went to shit, so i did notice that you have lower standards than me when it comes to stuff like this. You do you i guess. |
sammymahesh said: Xilver said: What more conflicts do you want?Only if wanting a proper conflict between proper characters in a well-written manner makes you an edgelord. With both sides being respected. But then again, you thought mappa seriously elevated the source material in this season before the source material even went to shit, so i did notice that you have lower standards than me when it comes to stuff like this. You do you i guess. I wanted an actual conflict between the actual heroes we were following for 4 seasons, like i already said. I wanted an actual divide between the heroes of this story. This is a "conflict" between the main heroes vs bunch of NPCs and Floch, who himself got clowned in this very episode by an old lady, and also was never really a part of the main crew. It's also only a "conflict" because there are no real stakes, and no real dangers for avengers, who are clearly going to win without any casualties. Adding random background characters from s1 in a pathetic attempt to create said stakes doesn't help it either. |
XilverMar 14, 2022 12:54 AM
| "Someone has to be the one to stain their hands with blood" firstly there is the structure and setting of the episode. after 84 had them talk in a forest (symbolic of the children of the forest theme that speaks of the cycle of hatred), they are now made to follow through on their decision at a port - the edge of the sea (ie ‘freedom’) cue the flying boat, the idea of flight linked to the wings of freedom the scouts use - representative of the hopes of humanity & the desire for a better future. it’s important to note the yeagerists are willing to destroy this due to their fear of it being used against them. however the wings of freedom hold both white and black feathers (‘good’ & ‘evil’) which ties to the main idea in this episode - questioning the morality of the alliance. in a story so deeply focused on showing both sides of a conflict we see the alliance face their ‘weak’ selves this is made clear through the use of daz, someone scared of fighting at trost - so wrapped up in fear that the lives of others no longer mattered to him. he’s a microcosm of the yeagerists, a group so scared that their value for life has been restricted only to themselves however daz (and sam) were friends, they were comrades. daz is jean without marco’s influence, connie if he had fed falco to his mother, he is the representation of understandable human selfishness. killing daz is killing themselves - the blood stain for the ‘greater good’ it ofc references bert’s speech when he refused to hand over eren, saying that despite his emotional turmoil he would do it regardless. it was to ‘save the world’ after all. this is what aot does, it presents a cliche grand dream and picks it apart from every angle. there is no conflict in which 1 side is totally in the right, there is no perfect ideal or perfect human and aot shows that. they are fighting to save people but in order to do so they must kill people who are, in their own ways, just fighting to survive in a cruel world. on the surface it aligns with utilitarianism, but it’s more emotional than that. magath states it well in his apology that condemns his own ego: ‘eren wants to eradicate everything, and that’s unforgivable.’ no matter how cruel aots world is, ignorance will not be the answer what eren is doing is the mirror opposite of karl fritz (king of the walls). karl removed the memory of his own people and wanted them to live in ignorance until they were sacrificed, eren wants to remove all human memory by wiping it out beyond the walls. what does that solve? the lack of memories didn’t stop conflict within the walls, or discrimination or classism, it merely engaged it. this is, as yelena puts it, because violence simply cannot be removed from humanity. kiyomi and floch agree - the rumbling is merely making the world a smaller place floch’s concept is also eerily familiar to the one beaten into the warriors through propaganda & brainwashing.the idea that those on the ‘other side’ are simply deserve to die. it’s self imposed ignorance in order to remain ‘justified’ - exactly what magath moves away from. aot doesn’t tell you which side to choose, it merely portrays two extremes with all their negative aspects. it seems to imply neither are ‘correct’ and a less radical method is the only true solution that would align with the buddha’s rejection of extreme viewpoints. however all of the alliance have seen both sides (as hange says in 84), they do not have the comfort of convenient ignorance that leads to either extreme. knowledge is a double edged sword, ie the biblical apple, as it forces them to make a CHOICE. levi outlines what a choice is. it’s not about right/wrong it’s about choosing what aligns best with your conscience. no one knows what the future holds but it’s the choice now which will make you the most comfortable when the consequences of those choices are fully understood. the warriors make the choice to fight even though their homes may well already be trampled, and the scouts fight because they just cannot live in a society built on the corpses of millions of innocents - even if that literally kills the ones they call friends. they stained their hands but instead of escaping into a role like reiner/bert did, all of them are accepting it as their own choice and their own responsibility. they become the ‘traitor’ and they have to live that - heard in connies scream of anguish there are also a few nice details that add to the realism and grayness of the alliance. firstly they don’t just save the azumabitos because they’re innocents, annie was opposed to this, they end up doing it because the azumabitos have functional value for their goal. not just this but mikasa wants to save them cus of the tie to her heritage (itself further commentary on the importance of culture), and connie uses that excuse because he doesn’t want to kill those he knows. nobody is wholly selfless or perfect but that’s what makes us human. the alliance are imperfect, but it’s in this imperfection that they embody the message of attack on titan. a group brought together by shared guilt, still trapped in the forest & uncertain about the future BUT a group honestly trying to do better. that may be all we can ask for |
Watchanime324Mar 14, 2022 4:27 AM
Xilver said: I have to disagree. They are not idiots but they are just afraid. If you are talking about ideologies, even Marley is far right. But what is hatred? Is hatred far right or far left? Even Hange agrees Floch is not idiot. He is justified. Hatred and fear are far above these ideologies. Ideologies whether right or left are not perfect. If you see objectively , Season 1-3 had a right leaning tone. Even the openings were like national anthems. The chant Shinzou Sasageyo was uplifting and powerful. But now when you hear the chant it feels terrifying because it feels twisted. It's very reminiscent of chants in modern times. I don't think Isayama took a jab on right leaning ideology. He very well built the first three seasons on the positive aspects of right leaning ideology and the following season he twisted it. Too much alcohol can ruin a person . Similarly, too much leaning on ideologies can ruin a person. Even Armin's downfall was his naiveness and optimism. Fritz's downfall was his pacifism.samashi20 said: I personally think writing Jaegarists as clowns was intentional. I mean what are they there for other than defending Eren and justifying his actions with obviously dirty methods? Nothing. They have no leadership, they strive on bullshit, and that's what's going to lead to their doom. As simple and easy as that. At first I thought there was no point in having them, but despite being useless as hell, they still depicted how the conflict cannot end with their mentality. Think about it, they do represent a large portion of the fandom, unfortunately, who think that violence, war and genocide are the answer. Whoever thinks they still need to pick a side this far into the story, they're wasting their time. Yes, absolutely, they are intentionally made into clowns. But i don't like it. I don't believe it's good for the story at all to present one of its two major sides as just idiot-evil-useless-clowns. It cheapens the entire series, and the conflict itself. This series used to respect the conflicting forces, always. And yes, i do agree that from meta perspective it's Isayama taking a jab on what is generally known as the far right. And that is also something i don't like, and makes me respect his writing less. You are also correct about the author not really leaving a room for disagreement about which side is right, at least aesthetically. All i can add to this is that the clowning is not going to stop on the yeagerists themselves. The king clown is on the way. |
sammymaheshMar 14, 2022 1:15 AM
| That ending scene was painful, Hiro Shimono nailed Connie's part. |
Xilver said: There was a conflict in the last episode. And they already know if they waste any time in useless conflicts they would never achieve their goals. They already know neither of them are at faults. They were just put into such conditions.sammymahesh said: What more conflicts do you want? I wanted an actual conflict between the actual heroes we were following for 4 seasons, like i already said. I wanted an actual divide between the heroes of this story. This is a "conflict" between the main heroes vs bunch of NPCs and Floch, who himself got clowned in this very episode by an old lady, and also was never really a part of the main crew. It's also only a "conflict" because there are no real stakes, and no real dangers for avengers, who are clearly going to win without any casualties. Adding random background characters from s1 in a pathetic attempt to create said stakes doesn't help it either. |
sammymahesh said: Xilver said: I have to disagree. They are not idiots but they are just afraid. If you are talking about ideologies, even Marley is far right. But what is hatred? Is hatred far right or far left? Even Hange agrees Floch is not idiot. He is justified. Hatred and fear are far above these ideologies. Ideologies whether rigt or left are not perfect. If you see objectively , Season 1-3 had a right leaning tone. Even the openings were like national anthems. The chant Shinzou Sasageyo was uplifting and powerful. But now when you hear the chant it feels terrifying because it feels twisted. It's very reminiscent of chants in modern times. I don't think Isayama took a jab on right leaning ideology. He very well the built the first three seasons on the positive aspects of right leaning ideology and the following season he twisted it. Too much alcohol can ruin a person . Similarly, too much leaning on ideologies can ruin a person. Even Armin's downfall was his naiveness and optimism. Fritz's downfall was his pacifism.Yes, absolutely, they are intentionally made into clowns. But i don't like it. I don't believe it's good for the story at all to present one of its two major sides as just idiot-evil-useless-clowns. It cheapens the entire series, and the conflict itself. This series used to respect the conflicting forces, always. And yes, i do agree that from meta perspective it's Isayama taking a jab on what is generally known as the far right. And that is also something i don't like, and makes me respect his writing less. You are also correct about the author not really leaving a room for disagreement about which side is right, at least aesthetically. All i can add to this is that the clowning is not going to stop on the yeagerists themselves. The king clown is on the way. Yeah but Marley is a war machine, it's not the people, but the system itself perpetuates the ideology. With yeagerists you have group of individuals, who are depicted themselves as that evil clowns. Even if Hange herself respects Floch more, that doesn't change the aesthetic and narrative of the series itself which had him humiliated by a small old lady, the depiction itself makes it clear  There is a clear side that was depicted with dignity, and there is a side that was depicted as, well, clowns. Yeah sure you can showcase that when you go to the extreme everything is ugly. Which doesn't mean you have to sacrifice the writing quality to do it. Turning the conflict into a circus with no stakes is just never good for the show, no matter what kind of message you're trying to send, be it right or wrong. Also, Armin was pretty much presented as the right side in this entire conflict, there is no downfall of him in this series. I said this before, but yeagerists just don't make sense, they come off as just bloodthirsty maniacs. It doesn't make sense why this group supports Eren instead of going with mini-rumbling, Historia doesn't matter to them. It's not like they asked to either die or fight, there is an alternative plan, which if in Eren's case is rejected by justification of sacrificing Historia, from the yeagerist side it makes no sense UNLESS they ARE just bloodthirsty maniacs who want the world dead. This entire side is nonsensical maniac clowns. And that is fucking terrible. |
| That last scene where Connie have to kill his two jaegerist friends is so well animated... A lot better than the manga from what i remember. Also Reiner and Annie transformation are also well animated... Also I saw some comments here about why Connie shots his friends in the head instead of incapacitated them so they cant use their gun... Other than what was planned before: "Either we wipe them out, or let them live and destroy the plane." which is obvious if they got found out, kill them all... Daz already pointed a gun at Armin's head with trigger finger, shooting his hand and arm will risk him pulling the trigger and killing Armin. The Titan-shifters can be killed either by go for the head disconnecting brain and spine (like Gabi does to Eren) or their brain (hinted by Reiner when he attempted to kill himself with a shotgun in the mouth) from what i know. Connie probably doesnt want to risk losing Colossal Titan which is in Armin's hand and he thinks that killing his 2 friends might be better than Genocide at least that's what I thought, you can feel Connie's guilt by killing his friends and screaming before the Ending... It could also hinted that Jaegerists are like Ultranationalists of Eldia, so Isayama want to hint that these kind of people need to be eradicated. Hence how Modern Japan want Ultranationalism out of their homeland, or at least what I thought. I dont really think much about the section where Connie kills his two friends back when I read the manga but now when people discuss it, I kinda want to know more about it... Well the story is getting downhill from here or after in my opinion so it might get interesting to talk more about it than sticking to the original story. |
Rio-Mar 14, 2022 2:07 AM
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| The tension and drama in this episode was off the charts, my god we're seeing friends kill each other now. |
| I'm Bruneian and I like anime. And Manchester United. And fat cats. |
Xilver said: Are you sure you read my point correctly? I emphasized on hatred and fear too much in the beginning. Hatred and fear can bring the worst of humans. Hitler was not bloodthirsty in his teens. But he became because of his hated. Yeagerists are the same. The world is at stakes. What stakes are more bigger than the world?sammymahesh said: I have to disagree. They are not idiots but they are just afraid. If you are talking about ideologies, even Marley is far right. But what is hatred? Is hatred far right or far left? Even Hange agrees Floch is not idiot. He is justified. Hatred and fear are far above these ideologies. Ideologies whether rigt or left are not perfect. If you see objectively , Season 1-3 had a right leaning tone. Even the openings were like national anthems. The chant Shinzou Sasageyo was uplifting and powerful. But now when you hear the chant it feels terrifying because it feels twisted. It's very reminiscent of chants in modern times. I don't think Isayama took a jab on right leaning ideology. He very well the built the first three seasons on the positive aspects of right leaning ideology and the following season he twisted it. Too much alcohol can ruin a person . Similarly, too much leaning on ideologies can ruin a person. Even Armin's downfall was his naiveness and optimism. Fritz's downfall was his pacifism. Yeah but Marley is a war machine, it's not the people, but the system itself perpetuates the ideology. With yeagerists you have group of individuals, who are depicted themselves as that evil clowns. Even if Hange herself respects Floch more, that doesn't change the aesthetic and narrative of the series itself which had him humiliated by a small old lady, the depiction itself makes it clear There is a clear side that was depicted with dignity, and there is a side that was depicted as, well, clowns. Yeah sure you can showcase that when you go to the extreme everything is ugly. Which doesn't mean you have to sacrifice the writing quality to do it. Turning the conflict into a circus with no stakes is just never good for the show, no matter what kind of message you're trying to send, be it right or wrong. Also, Armin was pretty much presented as the right side in this entire conflict, there is no downfall of him in this series. I said this before, but yeagerists just don't make sense, they come off as just bloodthirsty maniacs. It doesn't make sense why this group supports Eren instead of going with mini-rumbling, Historia doesn't matter to them. It's not like they asked to either die or fight, there is an alternative plan, which if in Eren's case is rejected by justification of sacrificing Historia, from the yeagerist side it makes no sense UNLESS they ARE just bloodthirsty maniacs who want the world dead. This entire side is nonsensical maniac clowns. And that is fucking terrible. |
I like that; objectivity. |
 Why would I spend my time watching shows I don't like? ๐ข |
| Excellent episode. The dock scene with Connie and Armin was adapted really well. And I loved the Reiner and Annie transformation scenes. Happy that they used 2volt in that scene instead of the awful rap-rock one used for the third Levi-Zeke fight (in the forest). |
sammymahesh said: Xilver said: Are you sure you read my point correctly? I emphasized on hatred and fear too much in the beginning. Hatred and fear can bring the worst of humans. Hitler was not bloodthirsty in his teens. But he became because of his hated. Yeagerists are the same. The world is at stakes. What stakes are more bigger than the world?Yeah but Marley is a war machine, it's not the people, but the system itself perpetuates the ideology. With yeagerists you have group of individuals, who are depicted themselves as that evil clowns. Even if Hange herself respects Floch more, that doesn't change the aesthetic and narrative of the series itself which had him humiliated by a small old lady, the depiction itself makes it clear There is a clear side that was depicted with dignity, and there is a side that was depicted as, well, clowns. Yeah sure you can showcase that when you go to the extreme everything is ugly. Which doesn't mean you have to sacrifice the writing quality to do it. Turning the conflict into a circus with no stakes is just never good for the show, no matter what kind of message you're trying to send, be it right or wrong. Also, Armin was pretty much presented as the right side in this entire conflict, there is no downfall of him in this series. I said this before, but yeagerists just don't make sense, they come off as just bloodthirsty maniacs. It doesn't make sense why this group supports Eren instead of going with mini-rumbling, Historia doesn't matter to them. It's not like they asked to either die or fight, there is an alternative plan, which if in Eren's case is rejected by justification of sacrificing Historia, from the yeagerist side it makes no sense UNLESS they ARE just bloodthirsty maniacs who want the world dead. This entire side is nonsensical maniac clowns. And that is fucking terrible. That was more pertaining to general conflict, not the specific conflict of this episode. So i mostly ignored it, they're not idiots for being wary of the world. They're idiots because they can't do shit, ever, they are depicted as buffoons. I specifically said "both when it comes to their capacity and how they are shown aesthetically". Look at the pic i attached if you have questions about aesthetics, or see the results they have, or the lack thereof if you have questions about them being useless idiots. The world is at stakes in general conflict between Eren and his friends, which is a ballsy conflict from Isayama, but then again he ruins it at the end. It's not about this specific episode, which i was critiquing. I'm not against existence of alliance on principle. But this episode in a nutshell is "Heroic heroes come and defeat bunch of evil stormtroopers, and kill random background characters from s1, while suffering zero casualties themselves". The only thing lacking in their assault was the avengers theme. Adding Samuel and Daz in this just makes it worse for me, because it makes author intentions so clear, while the author didn't have the determination to actually create a proper conflict in paradis, a proper civil war, from narrative standpoint. To actually have the heroes fight against each other, had Mikasa killed Connie because he's supporting Eren i'd applaud it. It works on so many levels, even from the alliance ideology, and shows how Eren forced his friends against each and forced them to kill each other with his decision. That is most definitely not the way towards prosperous future. No one is going to remember who Samuel and Daz are in a week, both in the series itself and in the fandom. This conflict is just weak. |
Xilver said: Zprotu said: but they did lmaoooo most people prefer the anime adaptation of 117-124 (assuming they are the chapters you're talking about) Most people where? on MAL? The episodes and adaptations pretty much got similar scores, just with smaller sample size for manga. No exponential improvements, with exceptions albeit, same 119-ep3, which i myself enjoyed the adaptation of, although i still have my gripes. Or are you talking about general hype surrounding it? Also, whether most manga readers really did enjoy the adaptation better is irrelevant to my point. The adaptations of those episodes definitely could be better, much better when it comes to some of them. everywhere but MAL lmaoo |
Zprotu said: everywhere but MAL lmaoo Well if that's true then i'm happy for everywhere and everyone. |
| Good episode, could be improved though. Doing a blitz attack killing all the Yaegerist was the best btw, that show they tried was weak. Also is nice to know some people is being killed at Marley, they need to get massacred at some extend before the Paradis team stops Eren. That Connie last kill though, I guess 1 or 100 doesnt mean nothing at this point, glad to see him doing what is needed after that wacky rescue mom show. |
Xilver said: That would be senseless of Mikasa to kill Connie because that would be out of character for her. She was even hesistant in killing Reiner and Bertholdt in season 2. We already had a conflict between Connie and Armin. And like I said they don't have time for more conflicts between them. Even if Mikasa kills Connie, it would be just a cheap shock value. There is no development of actual hate of Connie for Eren. They already brought themselves in a civil war when Eren was imprisoned. You are also denying the fact Connie and Armin were literally petrified while fighting them. Are Avengers that petrified? It was just sad. It was never heroic. Even the episode is titled "Traitor". I wouldn't call Yeagerists useless though, they successfully overthrew the military. They anticipated betrayal from the alliance. They have successfully suppressed the sparks of revolts in Paradis except the Alliance. They have succeeded in uniting most of the people in Paradis for their cause. Even if someone falls,there are going to be people that will take their place. But if you are talking about their battle capability then remember they are facing the elites and veterans. They are all young and most of them are inexperienced in battles.sammymahesh said: Are you sure you read my point correctly? I emphasized on hatred and fear too much in the beginning. Hatred and fear can bring the worst of humans. Hitler was not bloodthirsty in his teens. But he became because of his hated. Yeagerists are the same. The world is at stakes. What stakes are more bigger than the world? That was more pertaining to general conflict, not the specific conflict of this episode. So i mostly ignored it, they're not idiots for being wary of the world. They're idiots because they can't do shit, ever, they are depicted as buffoons. I specifically said "both when it comes to their capacity and how they are shown aesthetically". Look at the pic i attached if you have questions about aesthetics, or see the results they have, or the lack thereof if you have questions about them being useless idiots. The world is at stakes in general conflict between Eren and his friends, which is a ballsy conflict from Isayama, but then again he ruins it at the end. It's not about this specific episode, which i was critiquing. I'm not against existence of alliance on principle. But this episode in a nutshell is "Heroic heroes come and defeat bunch of evil stormtroopers, and kill random background characters from s1, while suffering zero casualties themselves". The only thing lacking in their assault was the avengers theme. Adding Samuel and Daz in this just makes it worse for me, because it makes author intentions so clear, while the author didn't have the determination to actually create a proper conflict in paradis, a proper civil war, from narrative standpoint. To actually have the heroes fight against each other, had Mikasa killed Connie because he's supporting Eren i'd applaud it. It works on so many levels, even from the alliance ideology, and shows how Eren forced his friends against each and forced them to kill each other with his decision. That is most definitely not the way towards prosperous future. No one is going to remember who Samuel and Daz are in a week, both in the series itself and in the fandom. This conflict is just weak. |
sammymaheshMar 14, 2022 3:46 AM
sammymahesh said: Xilver said: That would be senseless of Mikasa to kill Connie because that would be out of character for her. She was even hesistant in killing Reiner and Bertholdt in season 2. We already had a conflict between Connie and Armin. And like I said they don't have time for more conflicts between them. Even if Mikasa kills Connie, it would be just a cheap shock value. There is no development of actual hate of Connie for Eren. They already brought themselves in a civil war when Eren was imprisoned. You are also denying the fact Connie and Armin were literally petrified while fighting them. Are Avengers that petrified? It was just sad. It was never heroic. Even the episode is titled "Traitor". I wouldn't call Yeagerists useless though, they successfully overthrew the military. They anticipated betrayal from the alliance. They have successfully oppressed the sparks of revolts in Paradis except the Alliance. They have succeeded in uniting most of the people in Paradis for their cause. Even if someone falls,there are going to be people that will take their place. But if you are talking about their battle capability then remember they are facing the elites and veterans. They are all young and most of them are inexperienced in battles.That was more pertaining to general conflict, not the specific conflict of this episode. So i mostly ignored it, they're not idiots for being wary of the world. They're idiots because they can't do shit, ever, they are depicted as buffoons. I specifically said "both when it comes to their capacity and how they are shown aesthetically". Look at the pic i attached if you have questions about aesthetics, or see the results they have, or the lack thereof if you have questions about them being useless idiots. The world is at stakes in general conflict between Eren and his friends, which is a ballsy conflict from Isayama, but then again he ruins it at the end. It's not about this specific episode, which i was critiquing. I'm not against existence of alliance on principle. But this episode in a nutshell is "Heroic heroes come and defeat bunch of evil stormtroopers, and kill random background characters from s1, while suffering zero casualties themselves". The only thing lacking in their assault was the avengers theme. Adding Samuel and Daz in this just makes it worse for me, because it makes author intentions so clear, while the author didn't have the determination to actually create a proper conflict in paradis, a proper civil war, from narrative standpoint. To actually have the heroes fight against each other, had Mikasa killed Connie because he's supporting Eren i'd applaud it. It works on so many levels, even from the alliance ideology, and shows how Eren forced his friends against each and forced them to kill each other with his decision. That is most definitely not the way towards prosperous future. No one is going to remember who Samuel and Daz are in a week, both in the series itself and in the fandom. This conflict is just weak. Fuck yeah i'm glad there's someone that doesnt invalidates all Yeagerist success just because it was "evil", there's something to be noted that Floch is the frontman of all these success. I mean yeah looking on how far skilled Alliance in general compared to Yeagerist and Floch itself as their commander is just obvious. |
sammymahesh said: That would be senseless of Mikasa to kill Connie because that would be out of character for her. She was even hesistant in killing Reiner and Bertholdt in season 2. We already had a conflict between Connie and Armin. And like I said they don't have time for more conflicts between them. Even if Mikasa kills Connie, it would be just a cheap shock value. There is no development of actual hate of Connie for Eren. They already brought themselves in a civil war when Eren was imprisoned. You are also denying the fact Connie and Armin were literally petrified while fighting them. Are Avengers that petrified? It was just sad. It was never heroic. Even the episode is titled "Traitor". I wouldn't call Yeagerists useless though, they successfully overthrew the military. They anticipated betrayal from the alliance. They have successfully oppressed the sparks of revolts in Paradis except the Alliance. They have succeeded in uniting most of the people in Paradis for their cause. Even if someone falls,there are going to be people that will take their place. But if you are talking about their battle capability then remember they are facing the elites and veterans. They are all young and most of them are inexperienced in battles. What do you mean senseless, do you really don't understand or just don't want to? You have the same kind of circumstance as you had with Samuel and Daz but instead it's an actual character on yeagerist side, Connie is just an example. You fucking try to stop world genocide so you kill a friend, an actual friend, not some random nobody from s1, for your goal. Now that i would respect from Isayama, now that wouldn't be cheap. Nothing about it is out of character, it's a necessity, in a conflict forced by fucking Eren. Your absolute fucking refusal to understand the crux of the issue is honestly annoying at this point. Are you just an Isayama-stan? You cannot acknowledge that he possibly had a case of weak writing? Yeagerists are tools, the wine stuff and all that was planned by Zeke and Yelena, yeagerists were just used for it. They overthrew the government specifically thanks to Zeke's wine plan, fucking Yelena has more credit there than the yeagerists. The one who succeeded in turning the populace against the world is the world itself. Annie and Reiner made an epic transformation, posed there epicly for a moment and then proceeded to exterminate the useless idiots. Nothing about that moment was sad. The sad part came after, when the show attempted to show the in-fighting between the characters we know by reintroducing random s1 background characters and having them killed by the actual characters, which was supposed to be the punchline of the civil war mini-arc of paradis, "oh look our heroes are killing each other!, oh no, how tragic". We will never forget Samuel and Daz, those characters will forever stay in our hearts, Isayama is a genius. Hope we're done here. |
XilverMar 14, 2022 3:52 AM
Xilver said: sammymahesh said: I have to disagree. They are not idiots but they are just afraid. If you are talking about ideologies, even Marley is far right. But what is hatred? Is hatred far right or far left? Even Hange agrees Floch is not idiot. He is justified. Hatred and fear are far above these ideologies. Ideologies whether rigt or left are not perfect. If you see objectively , Season 1-3 had a right leaning tone. Even the openings were like national anthems. The chant Shinzou Sasageyo was uplifting and powerful. But now when you hear the chant it feels terrifying because it feels twisted. It's very reminiscent of chants in modern times. I don't think Isayama took a jab on right leaning ideology. He very well the built the first three seasons on the positive aspects of right leaning ideology and the following season he twisted it. Too much alcohol can ruin a person . Similarly, too much leaning on ideologies can ruin a person. Even Armin's downfall was his naiveness and optimism. Fritz's downfall was his pacifism. Yeah but Marley is a war machine, it's not the people, but the system itself perpetuates the ideology. With yeagerists you have group of individuals, who are depicted themselves as that evil clowns. Even if Hange herself respects Floch more, that doesn't change the aesthetic and narrative of the series itself which had him humiliated by a small old lady, the depiction itself makes it clear There is a clear side that was depicted with dignity, and there is a side that was depicted as, well, clowns. Yeah sure you can showcase that when you go to the extreme everything is ugly. Which doesn't mean you have to sacrifice the writing quality to do it. Turning the conflict into a circus with no stakes is just never good for the show, no matter what kind of message you're trying to send, be it right or wrong. Also, Armin was pretty much presented as the right side in this entire conflict, there is no downfall of him in this series. I said this before, but yeagerists just don't make sense, they come off as just bloodthirsty maniacs. It doesn't make sense why this group supports Eren instead of going with mini-rumbling, Historia doesn't matter to them. It's not like they asked to either die or fight, there is an alternative plan, which if in Eren's case is rejected by justification of sacrificing Historia, from the yeagerist side it makes no sense UNLESS they ARE just bloodthirsty maniacs who want the world dead. This entire side is nonsensical maniac clowns. And that is fucking terrible. Your analysis isn't incorrect to be fair, I would just say it's not as heavy handed as you say. They are not quite at the level of being clowns, for what it's worth, heck there are still plenty people in the comments supporting them as you can see. They are in disarray clearly as they've betrayed Yelena part of their supporters which helped them get as far as they did. Using old major characters to side with the jaegerists to raise the stakes would'nt work either, no one really fits the bill except Jean, that would mean to go back on his character arc so it doesn't work that well. Connie isn't a leader character, so killing him if he'd become a jagerist might've seemed cheap as much as bringing back these s1 characters is to you. Still the conflict you are asking for is there, just not with the jaegerists who are for all intents NPCs, it is with Eren. And we already had the comrades turned enemies arc. might not be the cleanest to not have "proper" jaegerists but I don't think it is that bad. My main issue is the main characters lack of presence, honestly it seems at times they are also NPCs, especially Armin. Back in season 3 he was quite the beast so I'd hoped he would have more of an impact by this point. |
Xilver said: Bro literally in the last episode Yelena called them out they are not "Heroes". They have bloods in their hands. Do you think "heroes" have blood in their hands? And they are not random nobody. They are still their comrades. It's not vague otherwise their resolve to save the world is also pointless because we have not seen every character in the world. And Zeke and Yelena were themselves used by Eren and Floch. And who are you going to kill, beside from Connie? Jean? Armin? There is no necessity to kill a character among the main group that has no hostility towards Eren. None of them wanted a bloodshed. They even wanted not to kill the Yeagerists. Again, I gave you the reason already. She was hesitant enough to kill Reiner and Bertholdt, do you think she would kill Jean, Connie or Armin? It would totally be out of character. She saved Louise despite not acknowledging her. What gave you the idea she would kill them?sammymahesh said: That would be senseless of Mikasa to kill Connie because that would be out of character for her. She was even hesistant in killing Reiner and Bertholdt in season 2. We already had a conflict between Connie and Armin. And like I said they don't have time for more conflicts between them. Even if Mikasa kills Connie, it would be just a cheap shock value. There is no development of actual hate of Connie for Eren. They already brought themselves in a civil war when Eren was imprisoned. You are also denying the fact Connie and Armin were literally petrified while fighting them. Are Avengers that petrified? It was just sad. It was never heroic. Even the episode is titled "Traitor". I wouldn't call Yeagerists useless though, they successfully overthrew the military. They anticipated betrayal from the alliance. They have successfully oppressed the sparks of revolts in Paradis except the Alliance. They have succeeded in uniting most of the people in Paradis for their cause. Even if someone falls,there are going to be people that will take their place. But if you are talking about their battle capability then remember they are facing the elites and veterans. They are all young and most of them are inexperienced in battles. What do you mean senseless, do you really don't understand or just don't want to? You have the same kind of circumstance as you had with Samuel and Daz but instead it's an actual character on yeagerist side, Connie is just an example. You fucking try to stop world genocide so you kill a friend, an actual friend, not some random nobody from s1, for your goal. Now that i would respect from Isayama, now that wouldn't be cheap. Nothing about it is out of character, it's a necessity, in a conflict forced by fucking Eren. Your absolute fucking refusal to understand the crux of the issue is honestly annoying at this point. Are you just an Isayama-stan? You cannot acknowledge that he possibly had a case of weak writing? Yeagerists are tools, the wine stuff and all that was planned by Zeke and Yelena, yeagerists were just used for it. They overthrew the government specifically thanks to Zeke's wine plan, fucking Yelena has more credit there than the yeagerists. The one who succeeded in turning the populace against the world is the world itself. Annie and Reiner made an epic transformation, posed there epicly for a moment and then proceeded to exterminate the useless idiots. Nothing about that moment was sad. The sad part came after, when the show attempted to show the in-fighting between the characters we know by reintroducing random s1 background characters and having them killed by the actual characters, which was supposed to be the punchline of the civil war mini-arc of paradis, "oh look our heroes are killing each other!, oh no, how tragic". We will never forget Samuel and Daz, those characters will forever stay in our hearts, Isayama is a genius. Hope we're done here. |
sammymaheshMar 14, 2022 5:44 AM
| Unexpectedly a great episode! Magath was the MVP of the first half, I respect him even more after his admission of guilt. TO BOTH SIDES. To both the Scouts and the Warriors. Massive balls right there. He isn't as stubborn as he seems. *claps* Floch scenes are great as always. What an entertaining guy lmao Reiner and Annie flying into the scene to transform was some nice sakuga, gg Mappa I heard the Yeagerists were reduced to just pure monsters in the manga version, so I'm glad Mappa didn't just alienize them like that. Painting the whole team as pure evil, when we've been watching them suffer for 4 seasons, is just bad taste. The conflict between Armin, Connie, Daz and Samuel was so tense. Such a tragic scene. It's a reflection on this whole damn war. I did not expect a scene that will hit this hard. "TWO-lives" by Hiroyuki Sawano was a perfect choice for the music. Poor Connie... Shoutout to his VA for that amazing performance. It's even more tragic knowing Connie suffered from so many betrayals, and now he is the one betraying his friends. That must be a big burden. Though I DO like the meme "He saw Armin gobbling up those bullets and it reminded him of Sasha" (nod to "he saw Annie eating pie and it reminded him of Sasha") LMAOOO Berthold was right. Berthold's message should be applied to Eren's case too. Someone does have to get blood on their hands. Though both sides suffer from that. Overal, last few minutes were a fucking 10/10 scene. |
JedanKomadMar 14, 2022 6:26 AM
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| While the tension in this episode was crazy, at least it did offer me one moment where it made me smile a lot.... ...And that would be Floch being pinned to the ground by Kiyomi. Boy did he have that one coming sooner or later! XD Still, I do approve of Magath finally coming to realise his faults over the way he's acted all this time, including last week, and begged for forgiveness to both Armin's side as well as Reiner, Gabi and Falco. Seeing him help Hange during the port raid was a welcome sight, that's for sure. =) Same with Annie and Reiner transforming into their titan forms and going to town on the Jeagerists. It was brutal, but it had to be done. The highlight of the episode was with Armin and Connie with their former friends as they tried to take control of the flying plane parked up in the port. Seeing Armin getting shot in the face was savage, but so was Connie's ultimate choice to kill both of his former friends for the sake of the mission. I can't blame him for losing it at the end, tears streaming down his face while screaming at the top of his lungs. Only two episodes left if the episode count is correct, so it makes me wonder where the series will end. Regardless, I look forward to the next episode as always. |
MilanovicKorgiva said: deg said: i would never kill my friends to save the people i never met and never will meet. And they are not just a regular people, people that tried to kill you, people that killed your family and many of your friends. They all tried to destroy their whole country and wanted to kill all of its citizens but when eldians got the power to destroy all of em they are suddenly a friends and regretting what they did to them? Nah man.Connie did nothing wrong, he and the global alliance are not traitors Omine did not storyboard this episode so i guess it shows even though he is the episode director EDIT: let me rephrase that Connie and the alliance are LESS Wrong, they are not traitors for the greater human society sure but in this case you just think emotionally rather than think logically when it comes to morality like you know propaganda of Marley is too strong that brainwashed a lot of innocent people out there to thinking the Eldians are devils (racism) |
zerotitan said: For Connie, we now know his resolve to be a good soldier as promised to his mother.Xilver said: I wanted an actual conflict between the actual heroes we were following for 4 seasons, like i already said. I wanted an actual divide between the heroes of this story. This is a "conflict" between the main heroes vs bunch of NPCs and Floch, who himself got clowned in this very episode by an old lady, and also was never really a part of the main crew. It's also only a "conflict" because there are no real stakes, and no real dangers for avengers, who are clearly going to win without any casualties. Adding random background characters from s1 in a pathetic attempt to create said stakes doesn't help it either. The actual heroes you are referring to are Armin, Mikasa, Jean and Connie. You wanted portrayal of conflict between these four, but I think it is just not possible narrative wise to have conflict between those four on the matter of Eren killing the entire world. Their character development throughout the series just doesn't allow that. Mikasa was devastated when Eren killed innocent citizens and children in Marley. Mikasa was arguing with Eren that they need time and Eldians and Marleyans can actually come to terms with each and stop treating each other devil/scum just like how they with volunteers. Even in the fierce fight with highest stakes Jean wanted his soldiers to avoid and minimize civilian causality. Marco's words always had tremendous effect on Jean and had a major role in his character development. When he learns that Marco's last words were " we haven't even talked this through", he immediately recognized the main reason behind this non-stop of cycle of hatred/killing is ongoing because none of the side was trying/willing to sit together and try to resolve issues through talking/ communication. Not to mention Jean was always the one to question the right or wrong of actions even from the Season 1 where he questioned Erwin's action plan, In season 1 episode 25 Jean literally says it is impossible for him to understand that Abandon you humanity to overcome monster, is that the only way for humanity? And then goes on to question if Eren does become that monster and kill all the titan will that really be victory for humanity? And see where we are now, Eren has actually become that monster at the cost of literally entire humanity. I don't even need to explain about Armin, and with all the points above I can very safely conclude that a conflict on ideology whether Entire humanity to be wiped out , whether Eren should be stopped or not, whether they should have gone for other way and this conflict leading to a split between these characters was simply not possible between Armin, Mikasa and Jean. I am not giving instances of Connie because I don't think we need to justify regarding Connie, as he had never that much character focus to begin with except this part of the Season and even if you dislike or disagree but I believe Connie was always portrayed as someone who would just follow Armin, Mikasa, Jean without putting in much of his own thought, and if a conflict amongst those three is not possible it is pretty safe to assume that Connie shall simply follow them without much thought and over complicating things in my opinion. |
| Allaince chapters are easily the weakest part of the series for me but thankfully MAPPA's animation has gotten better for these parts so series is at least enjoyable to watch. Yeagerists are clearly in the wrong in this conflict, and alliance are the heroes. But I have a problem with that whole deal tbh. A series which spent so much time showing how even the biggest villains in the series before the final season, the armored and colossal titans are just brainwashed kids and every conflict has an other side starts its final battle with "THESE ARE THE BAD GUYS THESE ARE GOOD GUYS YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO SUPPORT THESE GUYS NOT THEM" just sucks man. Like whats the point of making Floch, a character Isayama originally intented to be just an opposing viewpoint to the trio (EMA) just an average " I am so evil I LOVE killing people" kinda villain? Like I just think he could have been handled a lot better. Especially when there are characters who have done much worse in the series and arent portrayed nearly as bad of a person as he is. Isayama kinda tries to humanise the yeargerists with how hesitant Samuel and Daz were trying to kill Armin and Connie but eh. Yeagreists are weirdly incompetent in the fight because of course they are. Annie is immediately back in action and whopping ass of trained scouts with thunderspears after being in a coma for 4 years, because ofcourse she is. Whatever man. I really liked the last scene. The VAs are the one thing consistently giving their best in the series. I am just here for the 130 and 131 adaptation man. Hopefully mappa puts a lot of effort in those chapters too. |
DomineLkiraMar 14, 2022 8:27 AM
| Seems like Armin fails at everything this season, couldn't even say a word in the briefing before the attack. Never thought I'd root for random Eldian soldiers to kill Connie, but here I am. Isayama definitely surprised me... in a bad way. |
DomineLkira said: Yeagerists are the mirror to the Marleyans. Are the Marleyans good guys or bad guys?Allaince chapters are easily the weakest part of the series for me but thankfully MAPPA's animation has gotten better for these parts so series is at least enjoyable to watch. Yeagerists are clearly in the wrong in this conflict, and alliance are the heroes. But I have a problem with that whole deal tbh. A series which spent so much time showing how even the biggest villains in the series before the final season, the armored and colossal titans are just brainwashed kids and every conflict has an other side starts its final battle with "THESE ARE THE BAD GUYS THESE ARE GOOD GUYS YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO SUPPORT THESE GUYS NOT THEM" just sucks man. Like whats the point of making Floch, a character Isayama originally intented to be just an opposing viewpoint to the trio (EMA) just an average " I am so evil I LOVE killing people" kinda villain? Like I just think he could have been handled a lot better. Especially when there are characters who have done much worse in the series and arent portrayed nearly as bad of a person as he is. Isayama kinda tries to humanise the yeargerists with how hesitant Samuel and Daz were trying to kill Armin and Connie but eh. Yeagreists are weirdly incompetent in the fight because of course they are. Annie is immediately back in action and whopping ass of trained scouts with thunderspears after being in a coma for 4 years, because ofcourse she is. Whatever man. I really liked the last scene. The VAs are the one thing consistently giving their best in the series. I am just here for the 130 and 131 adaptation man. Hopefully mappa puts a lot of effort in those chapters too. |
sammymahesh said: DomineLkira said: Yeagerists are the mirror to the Marleyans. Are the Marleyans good guys or bad guys?Allaince chapters are easily the weakest part of the series for me but thankfully MAPPA's animation has gotten better for these parts so series is at least enjoyable to watch. Yeagerists are clearly in the wrong in this conflict, and alliance are the heroes. But I have a problem with that whole deal tbh. A series which spent so much time showing how even the biggest villains in the series before the final season, the armored and colossal titans are just brainwashed kids and every conflict has an other side starts its final battle with "THESE ARE THE BAD GUYS THESE ARE GOOD GUYS YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO SUPPORT THESE GUYS NOT THEM" just sucks man. Like whats the point of making Floch, a character Isayama originally intented to be just an opposing viewpoint to the trio (EMA) just an average " I am so evil I LOVE killing people" kinda villain? Like I just think he could have been handled a lot better. Especially when there are characters who have done much worse in the series and arent portrayed nearly as bad of a person as he is. Isayama kinda tries to humanise the yeargerists with how hesitant Samuel and Daz were trying to kill Armin and Connie but eh. Yeagreists are weirdly incompetent in the fight because of course they are. Annie is immediately back in action and whopping ass of trained scouts with thunderspears after being in a coma for 4 years, because ofcourse she is. Whatever man. I really liked the last scene. The VAs are the one thing consistently giving their best in the series. I am just here for the 130 and 131 adaptation man. Hopefully mappa puts a lot of effort in those chapters too. Who exactly do you mean by "Marleyans"? There are good and understanding marleyans like the guards trying to protect gabi even with their lives and not treat her harshly even when she is an eldian and there are evil marleyans who feed an innocent child to a group of dogs. Or by marleyans you just mean the warriors cause they technically are marlyean because they were born there and lived in that nation? They are more grey because while they were brainwashed as kids their main motive of being a warrior was just to achieve their own goals (being an honorary marlyean and save family yada yada). There is no such nuance with the yeagerists. They are evil terrorists who are very bad and suck or whatever. I guess yeagerists are a mirror of marleyans because they too are just trying to save themselves by genociding the other race? Its very surface level tho. And yet the problem I mentioned has nothing to do with them being a mirror of marleyans. |
| good luck to those weaklings beating those 2 titans when they are working together lmfao |
favorite "new girls" from summer <3 ... click sig for older seasons and more possible picks (rip all the other choices) |
timeforward said: Your analysis isn't incorrect to be fair, I would just say it's not as heavy handed as you say. They are not quite at the level of being clowns, for what it's worth, heck there are still plenty people in the comments supporting them as you can see. They are in disarray clearly as they've betrayed Yelena part of their supporters which helped them get as far as they did. Using old major characters to side with the jaegerists to raise the stakes would'nt work either, no one really fits the bill except Jean, that would mean to go back on his character arc so it doesn't work that well. Connie isn't a leader character, so killing him if he'd become a jagerist might've seemed cheap as much as bringing back these s1 characters is to you. Still the conflict you are asking for is there, just not with the jaegerists who are for all intents NPCs, it is with Eren. And we already had the comrades turned enemies arc. might not be the cleanest to not have "proper" jaegerists but I don't think it is that bad. People support Eren, yeagerisits are ultimately his faction, so people support yeagerists. I myself rooted for him while reading the manga ongoing, because he's just a far superior character to anyone from the alliance, he's much more interesting. I ultimately wanted a good story, which it seemed like only Eren could deliver last year of the manga's runtime. Which doesn't mean i didn't think yeagerists were depicted as clowns, because they were. Part of the volunteers wanted mini-rumbling and with the help of paradis reclaiming their independence, paradis was also interested in the buffer states. The other part of them were with Yelena and wanted euthanization. Both of those groups weren't really yagerists. You can write the story in a way that their do fit the bill, for one you don't have to depict yeagerists as so bloodthirsty. Helping the enemy to take down Eren and basically leave paradis defenseless isn't exactly something any of them wants. And some of them can definitely be won over. Connie would definitely suffice and him dying there cannot ever be compared to bringing back background characters from s1 and having them killed. As far as cheapness is concerned, there truly cannot be a comparison here. The very fact that you need to resort to general conflict of alliance with Eren proves how worthless yeagerists themselves are. But yes, which is why during these chapters ongoing in the manga, i didn't hate them, they were a 3/5 for me, i still had all of my complaints, but i could look forward to the biggest conflict itself, and that was a mistake, i should have realized from these chapters where the writing is going. Looking at these parts retrospectively, this kind of stuff is what ultimately caused that ending. sammymahesh said: Bro literally in the last episode Yelena called them out they are not "Heroes". They have bloods in their hands. Do you think "heroes" have blood in their hands? And they are not random nobody. They are still their comrades. It's not vague otherwise their resolve to save the world is also pointless because we have not seen every character in the world. And Zeke and Yelena were themselves used by Eren and Floch. And who are you going to kill, beside from Connie? Jean? Armin? There is no necessity to kill a character among the main group that has no hostility towards Eren. None of them wanted a bloodshed. They even wanted not to kill the Yeagerists. Again, I gave you the reason already. She was hesitant enough to kill Reiner and Bertholdt, do you think she would kill Jean, Connie or Armin? It would totally be out of character. She saved Louise despite not acknowledging her. What gave you the idea she would kill them? They literally had an avengers assembled posing moment few episodes ago, not heroes my ass. Yes heroes can have blood on their hands, as long as the show treats them as the heroes who must save the world. Moment of hesitation with RB is irrelevant, stop bringing it up. We're talking about actual schism within paradis with all the sides having determination and knowing what they fight for. Mikasa is a solider who will kill in war, all of them are, all of them will if needed. But i see you're just going to ignore the problem here, you're going to refuse to see it no matter what. So i'm no longer going to waste our mutual time. And i hope you're not too devastated to see the great Samuel and the legendary Daz gone. zerotitan said: The actual heroes you are referring to are Armin, Mikasa, Jean and Connie. You wanted portrayal of conflict between these four, but I think it is just not possible narrative wise to have conflict between those four on the matter of Eren killing the entire world. Their character development throughout the series just doesn't allow that. I'm referring to anyone relevant. I'm referring to anyone who is not a complete background character from season fucking 1. It's very much possible, it's just needs to be written better, Eren's decisions has to make more sense. And they should be in a scenario of it's either us or them, will you help the enemy, cause the genocide of your own people, and render all the sacrifices prior and hell they went through in first 3 season meaningless. Or will you fight for your own people's future. The story as it's written never makes any of that clear, because there is an alternative plan which prevents the genocide of either side, alliance opposes Eren without ever truly arguing about his rejection of 50 year plan. That's just straight up bad. It's as if they know they are characters in a story so they can move this way knowing that it will all end up just fine. Jean is fucking working with people who directly killed fucking Marco without any real plan to secure paradis after Eren is down. That's not exactly rational, that path is not in any shape or form given. Things changed once Eren started the rumbling, because before they could still hope, but now Eren proved that the world was right about Eldians being the devils, at that point you have to consider your options. You can't start a world genocide and then say "Just kidding, hehe, oops, please don't come kill us all". A that point some of the members could definitely be swayed away towards Eren, because really there is no alternative for them anymore. |
XilverMar 14, 2022 9:55 AM
| Titans looked insane this episode |
| Now, that was heavy. I didn't think much of killing jaegerists at first, but that scene with Conny really hit me. |
| Pardon my french but why is Armin such a little bitch ? Aside this , good episode . |
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