Mike Pence praises Indonesia's moderate Islamic culture saying it should inspire other Muslim countries to tame jihadism as he tours mosque with his shoes off
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Apr 20, 2017 5:36 PM
#1
U.S. Vice President Mike Pence praised Indonesia's democracy and moderate form of Islam on Thursday alongside the president of the world's most populous Muslim nation, reinforcing his message with a visit to the region's largest mosque. Pence's comments, though routine, had significance for Indonesian President Joko 'Jokowi' Widodo, who a day earlier suffered a serious political setback when a political ally was defeated by Islamic conservatives in the election for Jakarta governor. The divisive campaign undermined the image of Indonesia abroad as a generally tolerant Muslim nation. Indonesia is the latest stop on an Asian tour by Pence that aims to reaffirm traditional U.S. alliances at a time when Donald Trump's presidency has raised questions about the strength of the U.S. commitment to the region. Pence said at a joint news conference with Jokowi that the U.S. wants to strengthen its strategic partnership with Indonesia. In brief comments, Jokowi said they agreed to boost cooperation. The vice president praised Indonesia for its moderate form of Islam and said the two countries would continue to cooperate on combating terrorism. 'As the second- and third-largest democracies in the world, our two countries share many common values including freedom, the rule of law, human rights and religious diversity,' Pence said. 'The United States is proud to partner with Indonesia. It promotes and protects these values.' The vice president added: 'Indonesia's tradition of moderate Islam frankly is an inspiration to the world and we commend you and your people. In your nation as in mine, religion unifies, it doesn't divide.' But Pence foreshadowed some reworking of commercial and economic ties, saying that the U.S. seeks a free and fair relationship that helps job creation and economic growth for both sides. He said that U.S. exporters should face a level playing field and the relationship should be 'win-win.' Trump assailed the Trans-Pacific Partnership trade deal during his 2016 campaign and announced shortly after his inauguration that the U.S. would withdraw from the Pacific Rim-based TPP, which now includes 11 countries from Chile to New Zealand. Pence has sought to reassure allies in the region that the U.S. is still committed to trade and economic ties despite Trump's decision on TPP. Indonesia is on Trump's trade hit list of nations that he considers the U.S. is losing out to in trade, and U.S. company Freeport-McMoran Inc., which operates the world's largest copper mine in the Indonesian province of Papua, is in a protracted dispute with the Indonesian government. Trump's company, the Trump Organization, is active in Indonesia with plans to manage luxury resorts being built near the capital Jakarta and on the tourist island of Bali. Trump's Indonesian business partner, billionaire Hary Tanoe, is an aspiring politician who has said he might run for president in 2019. Pence's first engagement in Indonesia was morning tea with Jokowi at the presidential palace. He and his family later visited the Istiqlal Mosque, the largest in Southeast Asia. The Pences removed their shoes at the entrance and his wife, Karen, and two daughters covered their heads with scarves. They walked inside the large prayer hall, observing the soaring dome, and also stopped at an open terrace in the mosque. Pence later sat with several faith leaders in a conference room where a speaker gave Pence an overview of the mosque's history. The mosque, which can accommodate up to 200,000 people, was designed by a Protestant and sits near a Catholic cathedral in central Jakarta. The message and images sought to address questions in the Muslim world about Trump after his push for travel bans that would temporarily suspend visas from six predominantly-Muslim countries and halt the U.S. refugee program. Two judges have blocked the ban, prompting the Trump administration to appeal. Trump's executive order does not include Indonesia, but the country is home to nearly 14,000 refugees seeking resettlement in third countries and activists have said the ban would affect their ability of entering the U.S. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4428030/Mike-Pence-praises-Indonesia-s-moderate-Islamic-culture.html hahahaha oh so moderate. http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-32748248 http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/indonesia-woman-banda-aceh-sumatra-26-lashes-whipping-sex-outside-marriage-extramarital-affair-a7559826.html http://time.com/4291832/indonesia-aceh-christian-muslim-sharia-law-alcohol/ |
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Apr 20, 2017 5:45 PM
#2
| Pence is far gone, Indonesia is not really a moderate Islamic country, it's just not as bad as many of the Muslim countries in the middle east. |
Apr 20, 2017 5:56 PM
#3
| So what if the woman is driving the motorbike? She has to sit sideways? Won't that significantly increase her chances of injury? Or did I miss something said in the video and am therefore misunderstanding? |
| There's no inherent right or wrong in this universe, but when we think with emotions rather than logic, we make things so. |
Apr 20, 2017 5:59 PM
#4
Apr 20, 2017 6:53 PM
#5
SongstressSL said: So what if the woman is driving the motorbike? She has to sit sideways? Won't that significantly increase her chances of injury? Or did I miss something said in the video and am therefore misunderstanding? in aceh, it's forbidden to woman to use pants... also had to in sideways if they are in the back... it's only happened in ACEH and they already has long history of this even before islam coming... it's not common in indonesia so it's more culturally aceh then apply to whole indonesia... woman allowed to drive themself tho... |
Apr 20, 2017 7:41 PM
#6
| Islam Moderate Pick one. lol Muhammad is rolling in his grave. |
Apr 20, 2017 7:52 PM
#7
| Since when is a evangelist loon like Pence allowed to call anything "moderate"? |
Apr 20, 2017 8:18 PM
#8
eGirlSlaying said: \If he ever existed to begin with. Muhammad is rolling in his grave. |
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Apr 20, 2017 8:32 PM
#9
muhammad, as well as jusus and moses is real historical figure... islam it self considered moderete during his time... there is does some moderation movement, but they are opressed and has no allies since western prefer installing dictator that easier to control... |
Apr 20, 2017 8:49 PM
#10
| Likely on top of Aisha at this point. @ Topic - That whole video...just what... "If a woman straddles the motorcycle, her breasts might rub up against a man's back and he'll crash!" What is this, a harem protagonist who nosebleeds the moment a girl grabs his arm? The juvenile sexual repression is unreal. Otherwise I wouldn't even have a problem with their customs and practices if it was completely voluntary. There's a difference between encouraging women to live up to a certain standard and Sharia Thot Patrol forcing them to cover up at gunpoint. |
Apr 20, 2017 9:35 PM
#11
| Yeah, so fucking moderate they patrolled around every single voting location to make sure that the chinese kafeer candidate lose. And weeks before the election day, they terrorized the actual moderate muslims with their misused qur'an verses. |
Apr 20, 2017 9:48 PM
#12
Ratohnhaketon said: @ Topic - That whole video...just what... "If a woman straddles the motorcycle, her breasts might rub up against a man's back and he'll crash!" What is this, a harem protagonist who nosebleeds the moment a girl grabs his arm? The juvenile sexual repression is unreal. as people who live in indonesia, belive me, this is not even their strangest argument you will ever found... what even more ironic this country has higher rate for "immorality" that it's own district try to fix it by Sharia law (it ranked 6 in the drug abuse percentage compared 34 district recently IIRC, what even sadder it ranked 10 in "religion" education) loli_a_ravioli said: Yeah, so fucking moderate they patrolled around every single voting location to make sure that the chinese kafeer candidate lose. And weeks before the election day, they terrorized the actual moderate muslims with their misused qur'an verses. let them feel anies for a while... can't wait meme "piye kabare, enak jamanku to?" meme changed from soeharto background to be ahok... mark my words... |
KumaApr 20, 2017 9:53 PM
Apr 20, 2017 9:49 PM
#13
| "The vice president added: 'Indonesia's tradition of moderate Islam frankly is an inspiration to the world and we commend you and your people. In your nation as in mine, religion unifies, it doesn't divide.'" hmmmm im pretty sure it divides, nice and cleanly. whether its a good or bad thing its both but leaning towards bad ;) |
イカロス --I K A R O S D E S U-- "Hai master" <3cruise ![]() Becoming the bell of my heart dont click here, baka -->> https://soundcloud.com/franciscan-guitar |
Apr 20, 2017 10:12 PM
#14
| I too have heard many good things about Indonesian culture . Despite being muslim they still have Buddhist and Hindu elements present in their society and culture . Indian ruling party spokesperson always give Indonesian example when it comes to debates on Muslims of India . |
| "You are what your deep, driving desire is. As your desire is, so is your will. As your will is, so is your deed. As your deed is, so is your destiny. " -Brihdaranyak Upanishad |
Apr 20, 2017 10:12 PM
#15
| The grey wolf Pence is a mastermind, only second to Emperor Trump. |
Apr 20, 2017 11:00 PM
#16
| Let's get one thing straight....and I say this while being 100% serious! There is NO SUCH THING as a "Moderate" Islamic country. That is impossible. The things Islam teaches are antithetical to the modern world. Look at Turkey....does anyone really think they're a moderate Islamic country?! Give me a fucking break! |
Apr 21, 2017 1:08 AM
#17
Not a lot of evidence to support that. I originally though Muhammad was an actual historical figure but after watching a BBCl documentary I am not convinced anymore. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwuCAKOc4fE (posting the one with arabic subtitles just in case some arabic speaker that isnt too good with english wants to watch it. Also some of the other vids have unnecessary intros) JustALEX said: Look at Turkey....does anyone really think they're a moderate Islamic country? Culturally they are. Most dont even care if women dont cover up their hair. There are extremists in the country but most people arent that bad at least in comparison to other Islamic countries. They arent too different from eastern european countries. |
traedApr 21, 2017 1:11 AM
| ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⣸⠋⠀⠀⠀⡄⠀⠀⡔⠀⢀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⡘⡰⠁⠘⡀⠀⠀⢠⠀⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠁⠀⣀⠀⠀⡇⠀⡜⠈⠁⠀⢸⡈⢇⠀⠀⢣⠑⠢⢄⣇⠀⠀⠸⠀⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⢰⡟⡀⠀⡇⡜⠀⠀⠀⠀⠘⡇⠈⢆⢰⠁⠀⠀⠀⠘⣆⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠸⠀⠀⡄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠤⢄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡼⠀⣧⠀⢿⢠⣤⣤⣬⣥⠀⠁⠀⠀⠛⢀⡒⠀⠀⠀⠘⡆⡆⠀⠀⠀⡇⠀⠀⠇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⢵⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡰⠀⢠⠃⠱⣼⡀⣀⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⠛⠳⠶⠶⠆⡸⢀⡀⣀⢰⠀⠀⢸ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⣀⣀⣀⠄⠀⠉⠁⠀⠀⢠⠃⢀⠎⠀⠀⣼⠋⠉⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠴⠢⢄⡔⣕⡍⠣⣱⢸⠀⠀⢷⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⡰⠃⢀⠎⠀⠀⡜⡨⢢⡀⠀⠀⠀⠐⣄⠀⠀⣠⠀⠀⠀⠐⢛⠽⠗⠁⠀⠁⠊⠀⡜⠸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⢀⠔⣁⡴⠃⠀⡠⡪⠊⣠⣾⣟⣷⡦⠤⣀⡈⠁⠉⢀⣀⡠⢔⠊⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⡤⡗⢀⠇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⢀⣠⠴⢑⡨⠊⡀⠤⠚⢉⣴⣾⣿⡿⣾⣿⡇⠀⠹⣻⠛⠉⠉⢀⠠⠺⠀⠀⡀⢄⣴⣾⣧⣞⠀⡜⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠐⠒⣉⠠⠄⡂⠅⠊⠁⠀⠀⣴⣿⣿⣿⣿⣻⣿⣿⡇⠀⠀⢠⣷⣮⡍⡠⠔⢉⡇⡠⠋⠁⠀⣿⣿⣿⣿⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀ |
Apr 21, 2017 1:30 AM
#18
| Every country has it's good and bad points. As for Islam, I don't know any Arab guy but Asian Islam is just like any other religion. I wouldn't say it is like Christianity because unlike Christianity it is mandatory for them to read their holy book (Quran) and they also have to pray every Friday but apart from all this, I haven't seen a muslim woman/girl who is restricted to do certain things like in Arab countries or wear hijab/burkha all the time. In rural areas you might see some of them (who would wear hijab or burkha) but where I live (urban areas) not a chance! traed said: I originally though Muhammad was an actual historical figure but after watching a BBCl documentary I am not convinced anymore. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwuCAKOc4fE (posting the one with arabic subtitles just in case some arabic speaker that isnt too good with english wants to watch it. Also some of the other vids have unnecessary intros) None of them are real. Jesus, Moses, Muhammad, Adam, etc NEVER EXISTED! They are a bunch of fictional stories! JustALEX said: Let's get one thing straight....and I say this while being 100% serious! There is NO SUCH THING as a "Moderate" Islamic country. That is impossible. The things Islam teaches are antithetical to the modern world. Look at Turkey....does anyone really think they're a moderate Islamic country?! Give me a fucking break! That's just your opinion. Morocco is a fairly moderate Islamic country but it's not perfect as it is not a democratic country. |
swirlydragonApr 21, 2017 1:51 AM
Apr 21, 2017 1:52 AM
#19
| Pence is a Bible-thumper of the worst kind He doesn't know what "moderate" means |
Nico- said: Conversations with people pinging/quoting me to argue about some old post I wrote years ago will not be entertained@Comic_Sans oh no y arnt ppl dieing i need more ppl dieing rly gud plot avansement jus liek tokyo ghoul if erbudy dies amirite |
Apr 21, 2017 2:01 AM
#20
| Every religion has a degree of wackyness and corruption to it. We've got our fair share of extremist Christian groups in the USA. I very rarely hear anything about Buddhism though. Seems more like philosophy for life than an actual Religion. |
Apr 21, 2017 2:02 AM
#21
traed said: Not a lot of evidence to support that. I originally though Muhammad was an actual historical figure but after watching a BBCl documentary I am not convinced anymore. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwuCAKOc4fE (posting the one with arabic subtitles just in case some arabic speaker that isnt too good with english wants to watch it. Also some of the other vids have unnecessary intros) historicity of muhammed come to the west very recent... muslim historian was very critic above the time they write(with some exception of course) ... oral history also recorded very strong in arab tribal (which sadly lost, thanks for the turks and saud who forbid such a thing, tho there is some recent historian try to revive it especially sholar who want to learn pre islamic arabs)... most of modern historian except some revisionist which possibly cited by BBC agreed that muhammad at least a real historical figure... however, event around him and how much important of him is another things... SpamuraiSensei said: Every religion has a degree of wackyness and corruption to it. We've got our fair share of extremist Christian groups in the USA. I very rarely hear anything about Buddhism though. Seems more like philosophy for life than an actual Religion. most indochina and china and few japan adhore budhist (at least, before communism come to tabble)... it's not stop them from bloody history between them, nor with other religion... i think most recent example is burma and thailand religion crisis (i think burma is most famous one with rohingya, but little western know about conflict between mon people that become the mayority with some minority clan in the north whihc is buddhist as well)... yeah, bad people is existed in every ideologies after all... |
KumaApr 21, 2017 2:09 AM
Apr 21, 2017 2:10 AM
#22
swirlydragon said: That's just your opinion. Morocco is a fairly moderate Islamic country but it's not perfect as it is not a democratic country. Morocco used to be the sex change capital of the world. Not sure if related or not. Just wanted to throw that in as a random fact. Kuma said: historicity of muhammed come to the west very recent... muslim historian was very critic above the time they write(with some exception of course) ... oral history also recorded very strong in arab tribal (which sadly lost, thanks for the turks and saud who forbid such a thing, tho there is some recent historian try to revive it especially sholar who want to learn pre islamic arabs)... most of modern historian except some revisionist which possibly cited by BBC agreed that muhammad at least a real historical figure... however, event around him and how much important of him is another things... Based on the time you replied i can tell you didn't watch the vid I posted. It's fairly interesting, you should watch it some time. It talks about archaeological findings and old historical accounts and stuff. It's been a while since i saw it though. |
| ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⣸⠋⠀⠀⠀⡄⠀⠀⡔⠀⢀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⡘⡰⠁⠘⡀⠀⠀⢠⠀⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠁⠀⣀⠀⠀⡇⠀⡜⠈⠁⠀⢸⡈⢇⠀⠀⢣⠑⠢⢄⣇⠀⠀⠸⠀⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⢰⡟⡀⠀⡇⡜⠀⠀⠀⠀⠘⡇⠈⢆⢰⠁⠀⠀⠀⠘⣆⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠸⠀⠀⡄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠤⢄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡼⠀⣧⠀⢿⢠⣤⣤⣬⣥⠀⠁⠀⠀⠛⢀⡒⠀⠀⠀⠘⡆⡆⠀⠀⠀⡇⠀⠀⠇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⢵⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡰⠀⢠⠃⠱⣼⡀⣀⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⠛⠳⠶⠶⠆⡸⢀⡀⣀⢰⠀⠀⢸ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⣀⣀⣀⠄⠀⠉⠁⠀⠀⢠⠃⢀⠎⠀⠀⣼⠋⠉⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠴⠢⢄⡔⣕⡍⠣⣱⢸⠀⠀⢷⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⡰⠃⢀⠎⠀⠀⡜⡨⢢⡀⠀⠀⠀⠐⣄⠀⠀⣠⠀⠀⠀⠐⢛⠽⠗⠁⠀⠁⠊⠀⡜⠸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⢀⠔⣁⡴⠃⠀⡠⡪⠊⣠⣾⣟⣷⡦⠤⣀⡈⠁⠉⢀⣀⡠⢔⠊⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⡤⡗⢀⠇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⢀⣠⠴⢑⡨⠊⡀⠤⠚⢉⣴⣾⣿⡿⣾⣿⡇⠀⠹⣻⠛⠉⠉⢀⠠⠺⠀⠀⡀⢄⣴⣾⣧⣞⠀⡜⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠐⠒⣉⠠⠄⡂⠅⠊⠁⠀⠀⣴⣿⣿⣿⣿⣻⣿⣿⡇⠀⠀⢠⣷⣮⡍⡠⠔⢉⡇⡠⠋⠁⠀⣿⣿⣿⣿⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀ |
Apr 21, 2017 2:15 AM
#23
traed said: Morocco used to be the sex change capital of the world. Not sure if related or not. Just wanted to throw that in as a random fact. But now it's not the case As I said, every country has it's good and bad points or should I start talking about the Priests who commit Pedophilia or about how Pope Francis Refuses To Punish Pedophile Priests Anyway, my point is that Morocco is a fairly moderate Islamic country even though it's not democratic and is underdeveloped |
Apr 21, 2017 2:22 AM
#24
traed said: Kuma said: historicity of muhammed come to the west very recent... muslim historian was very critic above the time they write(with some exception of course) ... oral history also recorded very strong in arab tribal (which sadly lost, thanks for the turks and saud who forbid such a thing, tho there is some recent historian try to revive it especially sholar who want to learn pre islamic arabs)... most of modern historian except some revisionist which possibly cited by BBC agreed that muhammad at least a real historical figure... however, event around him and how much important of him is another things... Based on the time you replied i can tell you didn't watch the vid I posted. It's fairly interesting, you should watch it some time. It talks about archaeological findings and old historical accounts and stuff. It's been a while since i saw it though. the problem is i currently usinglimited data... and video would eat the heck out of it... also the islam is not religion that build some large monumen until really later when they are interacting with larger previous civilization (they are used to be nomad tribe FFS, nomad people didn't left lot physical artifact... just like mongol physical evidance before they become empire was very few, same cases)... as archeology student my self, it's amuse me how people really rely on physical artifact proof, when most archeologist it self didn't claim only physiscal proof that can be used as historical evidance... try google san'a manuscrpt which dated very near to prophet time... |
KumaApr 21, 2017 2:29 AM
Apr 21, 2017 2:36 AM
#25
swirlydragon said: traed said: Morocco used to be the sex change capital of the world. Not sure if related or not. Just wanted to throw that in as a random fact. But now it's not the case As I said, every country has it's good and bad points or should I start talking about the Priests who commit Pedophilia or about how Pope Francis Refuses To Punish Pedophile Priests Anyway, my point is that Morocco is a fairly moderate Islamic country even though it's not democratic and is underdeveloped I didn't say that was good or bad. I was saying it may be a sign of moderation so long as it's not like Iran where they persecute homosexuals so they get surgery to change their appearance. You reply shows you think it's bad seemingly but im not sure. Kuma said: traed said: Kuma said: historicity of muhammed come to the west very recent... muslim historian was very critic above the time they write(with some exception of course) ... oral history also recorded very strong in arab tribal (which sadly lost, thanks for the turks and saud who forbid such a thing, tho there is some recent historian try to revive it especially sholar who want to learn pre islamic arabs)... most of modern historian except some revisionist which possibly cited by BBC agreed that muhammad at least a real historical figure... however, event around him and how much important of him is another things... Based on the time you replied i can tell you didn't watch the vid I posted. It's fairly interesting, you should watch it some time. It talks about archaeological findings and old historical accounts and stuff. It's been a while since i saw it though. the problem is i currently usinglimited data... and video would eat the heck out of it... also the islam is not religion that build some large monumen until really later when they are interacting with larger previous civilization (they are used to be nomad tribe FFS, nomad people didn't left lot physical archeologist... just like mongol physical evidance before they become empire was very few, same cases)... as archeology student my self, it's amuse me how people really rely on physical archeology proof, when most archeologist it self didn't clam only physiscal proof that can be used as historical evidance... try google san'a manuscrpt which dated very near to prophet time... That's too bad. Maybe you can find a copy of it somehow. I think it's titled Islam: The Untold Story The dates for the Sana'a manuscript could place it at a time before the time Muhammad was supposed to have existed as well though so that isn't much to go on. |
| ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⣸⠋⠀⠀⠀⡄⠀⠀⡔⠀⢀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⡘⡰⠁⠘⡀⠀⠀⢠⠀⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠁⠀⣀⠀⠀⡇⠀⡜⠈⠁⠀⢸⡈⢇⠀⠀⢣⠑⠢⢄⣇⠀⠀⠸⠀⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⢰⡟⡀⠀⡇⡜⠀⠀⠀⠀⠘⡇⠈⢆⢰⠁⠀⠀⠀⠘⣆⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠸⠀⠀⡄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠤⢄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡼⠀⣧⠀⢿⢠⣤⣤⣬⣥⠀⠁⠀⠀⠛⢀⡒⠀⠀⠀⠘⡆⡆⠀⠀⠀⡇⠀⠀⠇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⢵⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡰⠀⢠⠃⠱⣼⡀⣀⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⠛⠳⠶⠶⠆⡸⢀⡀⣀⢰⠀⠀⢸ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⣀⣀⣀⠄⠀⠉⠁⠀⠀⢠⠃⢀⠎⠀⠀⣼⠋⠉⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠴⠢⢄⡔⣕⡍⠣⣱⢸⠀⠀⢷⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⡰⠃⢀⠎⠀⠀⡜⡨⢢⡀⠀⠀⠀⠐⣄⠀⠀⣠⠀⠀⠀⠐⢛⠽⠗⠁⠀⠁⠊⠀⡜⠸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⢀⠔⣁⡴⠃⠀⡠⡪⠊⣠⣾⣟⣷⡦⠤⣀⡈⠁⠉⢀⣀⡠⢔⠊⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⡤⡗⢀⠇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⢀⣠⠴⢑⡨⠊⡀⠤⠚⢉⣴⣾⣿⡿⣾⣿⡇⠀⠹⣻⠛⠉⠉⢀⠠⠺⠀⠀⡀⢄⣴⣾⣧⣞⠀⡜⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠐⠒⣉⠠⠄⡂⠅⠊⠁⠀⠀⣴⣿⣿⣿⣿⣻⣿⣿⡇⠀⠀⢠⣷⣮⡍⡠⠔⢉⡇⡠⠋⠁⠀⣿⣿⣿⣿⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀ |
Apr 21, 2017 3:01 AM
#26
traed said: I didn't say that was good or bad. I was saying it may be a sign of moderation so long as it's not like Iran where they persecute homosexuals so they get surgery to change their appearance. You reply shows you think it's bad seemingly but im not sure. Unlike in Iran, sexual relations between same sex will result in 6 months of jail. Therefore, they don't kill homosexuals or force them to go for surgery. Anyway as I said, it is a underdeveloped country and is non-democratic but it is still a fairly moderate Islamic country. And of course the girls are pretty hot there. |
Apr 21, 2017 3:11 AM
#27
JustALEX said: Let's get one thing straight....and I say this while being 100% serious! There is NO SUCH THING as a "Moderate" Islamic country. That is impossible. The things Islam teaches are antithetical to the modern world. Look at Turkey....does anyone really think they're a moderate Islamic country?! Give me a fucking break! So wait... Do you mean that what is not modern, is extremist? Because if you're not moderate, you're an extremist. And according to you, if you're antithetical to the modern world, it's impossible to be moderate, therefore an extremist. |
| Signature? I ain't got no signature! I don't need no signature! I don't have to show you any stinkin' signature! |
Apr 21, 2017 4:13 AM
#28
swirlydragon said: traed said: I didn't say that was good or bad. I was saying it may be a sign of moderation so long as it's not like Iran where they persecute homosexuals so they get surgery to change their appearance. You reply shows you think it's bad seemingly but im not sure. Unlike in Iran, sexual relations between same sex will result in 6 months of jail. Therefore, they don't kill homosexuals or force them to go for surgery. Anyway as I said, it is a underdeveloped country and is non-democratic but it is still a fairly moderate Islamic country. And of course the girls are pretty hot there. You call outlawing homosexuality moderate? even most of eastern europe and the bible belt in the US doesnt do that. Although some states do have anti sodomy laws as an anti gay law but the arrests from that only lead to their release not actual jail time since they donnt want to prosecute that. It's not limited to Islam but the majority of countries outlawing homosexuality are Muslim majority countries. But moderate in comparison to some other muslim countries sure it's not as bad but to the rest of the world no that's pushing it still. |
| ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⣸⠋⠀⠀⠀⡄⠀⠀⡔⠀⢀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⡘⡰⠁⠘⡀⠀⠀⢠⠀⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠁⠀⣀⠀⠀⡇⠀⡜⠈⠁⠀⢸⡈⢇⠀⠀⢣⠑⠢⢄⣇⠀⠀⠸⠀⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⢰⡟⡀⠀⡇⡜⠀⠀⠀⠀⠘⡇⠈⢆⢰⠁⠀⠀⠀⠘⣆⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠸⠀⠀⡄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠤⢄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡼⠀⣧⠀⢿⢠⣤⣤⣬⣥⠀⠁⠀⠀⠛⢀⡒⠀⠀⠀⠘⡆⡆⠀⠀⠀⡇⠀⠀⠇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⢵⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡰⠀⢠⠃⠱⣼⡀⣀⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⠛⠳⠶⠶⠆⡸⢀⡀⣀⢰⠀⠀⢸ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⣀⣀⣀⠄⠀⠉⠁⠀⠀⢠⠃⢀⠎⠀⠀⣼⠋⠉⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠴⠢⢄⡔⣕⡍⠣⣱⢸⠀⠀⢷⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⡰⠃⢀⠎⠀⠀⡜⡨⢢⡀⠀⠀⠀⠐⣄⠀⠀⣠⠀⠀⠀⠐⢛⠽⠗⠁⠀⠁⠊⠀⡜⠸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⢀⠔⣁⡴⠃⠀⡠⡪⠊⣠⣾⣟⣷⡦⠤⣀⡈⠁⠉⢀⣀⡠⢔⠊⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⡤⡗⢀⠇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⢀⣠⠴⢑⡨⠊⡀⠤⠚⢉⣴⣾⣿⡿⣾⣿⡇⠀⠹⣻⠛⠉⠉⢀⠠⠺⠀⠀⡀⢄⣴⣾⣧⣞⠀⡜⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠐⠒⣉⠠⠄⡂⠅⠊⠁⠀⠀⣴⣿⣿⣿⣿⣻⣿⣿⡇⠀⠀⢠⣷⣮⡍⡠⠔⢉⡇⡠⠋⠁⠀⣿⣿⣿⣿⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀ |
Apr 21, 2017 4:49 AM
#29
traed said: swirlydragon said: traed said: I didn't say that was good or bad. I was saying it may be a sign of moderation so long as it's not like Iran where they persecute homosexuals so they get surgery to change their appearance. You reply shows you think it's bad seemingly but im not sure. Unlike in Iran, sexual relations between same sex will result in 6 months of jail. Therefore, they don't kill homosexuals or force them to go for surgery. Anyway as I said, it is a underdeveloped country and is non-democratic but it is still a fairly moderate Islamic country. And of course the girls are pretty hot there. You call outlawing homosexuality moderate? even most of eastern europe and the bible belt in the US doesnt do that. Although some states do have anti sodomy laws as an anti gay law but the arrests from that only lead to their release not actual jail time since they donnt want to prosecute that. It's not limited to Islam but the majority of countries outlawing homosexuality are Muslim majority countries. But moderate in comparison to some other muslim countries sure it's not as bad but to the rest of the world no that's pushing it still. As I said, it is a non-democratic country and is still underdeveloped. They might change their laws in future but right now, they are working on developing their country. Homosexuality alone does not determine if a country is moderate or not. But according to me, it is a fairly moderate country. Btw in my country homosexuality is also illegal but right now, we are more focused on developing our country. I wouldn't mind living in Morocco (mainly because of hot girls) since it is a safe/moderate country. |
Apr 21, 2017 4:50 AM
#30
traed said: Kuma said: traed said: Kuma said: historicity of muhammed come to the west very recent... muslim historian was very critic above the time they write(with some exception of course) ... oral history also recorded very strong in arab tribal (which sadly lost, thanks for the turks and saud who forbid such a thing, tho there is some recent historian try to revive it especially sholar who want to learn pre islamic arabs)... most of modern historian except some revisionist which possibly cited by BBC agreed that muhammad at least a real historical figure... however, event around him and how much important of him is another things... Based on the time you replied i can tell you didn't watch the vid I posted. It's fairly interesting, you should watch it some time. It talks about archaeological findings and old historical accounts and stuff. It's been a while since i saw it though. the problem is i currently usinglimited data... and video would eat the heck out of it... also the islam is not religion that build some large monumen until really later when they are interacting with larger previous civilization (they are used to be nomad tribe FFS, nomad people didn't left lot physical archeologist... just like mongol physical evidance before they become empire was very few, same cases)... as archeology student my self, it's amuse me how people really rely on physical archeology proof, when most archeologist it self didn't clam only physiscal proof that can be used as historical evidance... try google san'a manuscrpt which dated very near to prophet time... That's too bad. Maybe you can find a copy of it somehow. I think it's titled Islam: The Untold Story The dates for the Sana'a manuscript could place it at a time before the time Muhammad was supposed to have existed as well though so that isn't much to go on. it's dated some years after muhammed death... it's contain 2 layers, first layers was writen around 10-20 years after his death and second was exactly like we know utsmani verse dated around 50-100 years after muhammed death but without modification that coming later... |
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