ANIME ONLY: Fate/Zero or UBW&HF First?
| Many of you would respond negatively months ago, but seeing how the current adaptation is panning out, I was wondering if any of you have changed your mind. There were multiple occasions particularly in the second cour where I feel that the emotional/ideological impact would have been dampered if the viewer hadn't hadn't seen previous Grail War. To an anime-only viewer, it would seem that the flashbacks are kind of disruptive since it's referencing events that they have little to no context for. I originally convinced my friend to start with UBW 2014 but I've changed my mind once cour 2 hit. I know many of you guys suggested reading the VN first, but also recommended that they start with the UBW 2014-2015 if they preferred to stick with only anime. Has that opinion changed? One of the biggest arguments for seeing UBW 2014 first was that it wouldn't spoil Heaven's Feel but given the current adaptation's storytelling, it's likely that even Heaven's Feel will reference Fate/Zero. This isn't a bait, but I won't mind if anyone bites. |
| This is a topic where those who started with FZ (and have not completely experienced FSN (Fate, UBW, HF)) will definitely insist and persist that starting with FZ is a good idea. I mean originally, FZ referenced FSN several times, since that's how it was created. ufotable added a thing or two and the lack of a proper Fate route (unless you're willing to read it) kind of hurts starting with UBW, because we all know UBW is the second part of FSN. So regarding the people who only wish to watch and not read, I have no opinion about this, since I am obviously a VN reader and therefore cannot decide which would be better, especially since Heaven's Feel isn't out yet. |
CapsuleCoreMay 30, 2015 12:43 PM
| Fate/Zero is a prequel, it's supposed to be watched after F/SN Simple as that the ideal thing to do would be to read the VN first, but if someone want to stick only with the animes then UBW 2014-2015 and HF movies along with a resume of what happens in the Fate route should be enough |
| Don't need to be objective. I just want gut feeling responses. I only changed my mind because the people I gave this show to kind of meh'd at the flashbacks during The Answer, and that's supposed to be one of the most powerful scenes. |
| Truly anime-only? As in they never intend to read the VN? ...... Tough choice. |
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SwordHand said: Don't need to be objective. I just want gut feeling responses. I only changed my mind because the people I gave this show to kind of meh'd at the flashbacks during The Answer, and that's supposed to be one of the most powerful scenes. I don't know, the Answer in the anime felt powerful for me, specially on past episode and when EMIYA started playing on this one |
SwordHand said: Well, I don't think knowing FZ and seeing Kiritsugu save Shirou at the end of it would have changed anything. It's not like Kiritsugu and Archer's idea and ideal of a superhero are the same.Don't need to be objective. I just want gut feeling responses. I only changed my mind because the people I gave this show to kind of meh'd at the flashbacks during The Answer, and that's supposed to be one of the most powerful scenes. My gut feeling right now is that it doesn't matter whether they start with FZ or UBW, but only from seeing UBW. If I add HF to it, I'd still say, just from knowing what is going on in HF, that starting with FSN's anime adaptations would be better, but who knows. |
| It is impossible to have any idea because HF hasn't come out yet and it depends how they handle HF. |
 Anime is good, fucking deal with it. |
| I believe the UBW segments are done well. But flashbacks about Ilya's mother, and the last Grail War seem very out of place. And I'm not worried about the similarities between Archer's and Kerry's ideals, I just think that the flashback about him would make a lot more sense if the viewer knows how desperate Kiritsugu had been to save somebody. |
SwordHand said: The last Grail War flashbacks basically happened in FSN too and they never bothered me. Neither was the impact of Kiritsugu's desperation and eventual salvation weak for me, when I read the novel. I understand why you think it would make more sense if the viewer had seen FZ first, but I disagree. Nothing really changes. I'd say you get the same feeling, if you watch it the other way and then see that this is the point where the timer reaches "Zero" and Emiya Shirou is born.I believe the UBW segments are done well. But flashbacks about Ilya's mother, and the last Grail War seem very out of place. And I'm not worried about the similarities between Archer's and Kerry's ideals, I just think that the flashback about him would make a lot more sense if the viewer knows how desperate Kiritsugu had been to save somebody. As for that part with Illya's "mother", I don't think watching FZ first really helps. I saw many people who watched FZ and were still left confused. It's one of the few anime original additions that I absolutely didn't like. |
| I would probably say read the VN then watch any anime. If you are going anime only then maybe doing release order would be best. Obviously release order means kara no kyoukai first XD |
Anime is good, fucking deal with it. |
| Personally, if I had seen Fate/Zero first, I might not have cared much for the Fate franchise in general. The first 3 episodes are a real chore to get through, and IMO it only gets marginally better from there, topped with an anti-climactic ending. Unlimited Blade Works makes for a much more engaging intro to Fate, but I suppose it could really depend on the person I'm recommending it to. FSN carries a lot more typical anime cliches than F/Z does, which can be a turnoff for some. While the spoilers are of course a problem when starting with F/Z first, I think the bigger issue is that narratively it's very differently-structured than the rest of Fate, so it would be giving the wrong idea of what the franchise is about to a newcomer, in addition to aforementioned problems I mentioned above. It does add to the impact of scenes that happen in season 2 of UBW, but I don't know if that alone is enough to justify recommending it first. Personally, I would say probably not in most cases. |
kingcity20 said: Oh for the love of -_- nvm gotta love MAL |
SwordHand said: Read the VN and then watch Fate/Zero (recommended) or Just watch Fate/ZeroMany of you would respond negatively months ago, but seeing how the current adaptation is panning out, I was wondering if any of you have changed your mind. There were multiple occasions particularly in the second cour where I feel that the emotional/ideological impact would have been dampered if the viewer hadn't hadn't seen previous Grail War. To an anime-only viewer, it would seem that the flashbacks are kind of disruptive since it's referencing events that they have little to no context for. I originally convinced my friend to start with UBW 2014 but I've changed my mind once cour 2 hit. I know many of you guys suggested reading the VN first, but also recommended that they start with the UBW 2014-2015 if they preferred to stick with only anime. Has that opinion changed? One of the biggest arguments for seeing UBW 2014 first was that it wouldn't spoil Heaven's Feel but given the current adaptation's storytelling, it's likely that even Heaven's Feel will reference Fate/Zero. This isn't a bait, but I won't mind if anyone bites. Skip both DEEN and Ufotable adaptations of F/SN also http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1347585 |
| BAN ME |
| I honestly don't know how to answer this since they're going and tying it to Zero much harder with a bunch of references and things, while watching Zero contains major spoilers for FSN. So uh....your preference, I guess. |
MiniSiets said: It does add to the impact of scenes that happen in season 2 of UBW, but I don't know if that alone is enough to justify recommending it first. Personally, I would say probably not in most cases. And to add to this, it's also worth mentioning that it can take away from UBW as much as it adds for an AO watcher. For example, Kirei's death would seem really stupid to an AO watcher that started with F/Z first, since he played such a central role in Fate/Zero but was practically useless in UBW. |
kingcity20 said: Oh for the love of -_- nvm gotta love MAL |
| I'm one of those who found FSN UBW by ufotable first - while it's airing. I liked it and binged to catch up and then watched the new episode weekly as they were made available. I decided to give F/Z a try right around the time I was watching or had watched Time of Departure (13) and Princess of Colchis (14), and it took a few more episodes of FSN coming out for me to get all the way through F/Z. A couple of thoughts I've had from seeing it this way... "Oh, that's why Sakura is here.. I was wondering why she even existed.." "Damn, Ilya's life was pretty damn tragic.. sucks that she died." "Wait, do they seriously not know -who- Saber is?" But then there was also this sense that the events of FSN UBW were almost petty or minor in comparison to the first Grail War. The powers of the various noble warriors sure do seem much less exciting. Between FSN UBW episodes releases and after watching all of F/Z I went back and rewatched the first episodes and pre-episode thing of UBW. Those first few episodes made a lot more sense, or rather, I recognized locations and the events seemed less random. Yeah, when i "started" with UBW i started with the first numbered episode - not episode zero which details Rin summoning Archer and all of that from her perspective. It was very confusing, enjoyable, but confusing. And oddly enough, I caught on to the meaning of the pendant that brought Shirou back the second Archer handed it "back" to Rin. Guess it's an obvious enough flag. Also: Having any experience with FSN UBW and then watching F/Z you know the first grail war (isn't it like the 10th or something?) is going to end very badly. You may not know the details, but you know everyone involved is fucked. That they didn't kill Waver was actually a relief. With how bad things were going and how bad it was implied things ended in UBW I assumed everyone died. |
aloricg said: But then there was also this sense that the events of FSN UBW were almost petty or minor in comparison to the first Grail War. The powers of the various noble warriors sure do seem much less exciting. ? |
| As an anime only viewer, I felt that F/Z improved my experienced of UBW, will all those references here & there. Furthermore, come ep 21 and UBW even gave some answers to possible questions that arose towards the end of F/Z, with Gil giving us more insight on the grail. But that shouldn't even be relevant. It was already rather hilarious & rather ridiculous how some people where preaching on why not to watch F/Z before UBW when UBW barely started. Their words would've had more weigh if the adaptation was complete, or at least beyond the half-way mark. I think their words do hold weigh when it comes to going through the VN 1st though, assuming the viewer has any interest in it. Lastly, let's get real here. I think it'd be rather hard for most anime-only viewers going into UBW not to have watched F/Z before. I'll generally come-up whenever there's a Fate discussions going on. It's kind of hard to avoid it, IMO, and I doubt Ufo didn't expect that when making UBW. |
Insertanamehere said: aloricg said: But then there was also this sense that the events of FSN UBW were almost petty or minor in comparison to the first Grail War. The powers of the various noble warriors sure do seem much less exciting. ? Never get the sense in UBW that the city itself was in danger of being destroyed. Certainly do several times in F/Z. |
aloricg said: I decided to give F/Z a try right around the time I was watching or had watched Time of Departure (13) and Princess of Colchis (14), and it took a few more episodes of FSN coming out for me to get all the way through F/Z. A couple of thoughts I've had from seeing it this way... "Oh, that's why Sakura is here.. I was wondering why she even existed.." "Damn, Ilya's life was pretty damn tragic.. sucks that she died." "Wait, do they seriously not know -who- Saber is?" But then there was also this sense that the events of FSN UBW were almost petty or minor in comparison to the first Grail War. The powers of the various noble warriors sure do seem much less exciting. F/SN has three routes, each routes focus on a different set of characters so that's mostly likely why /Zero looks like a more complete work compared to UBW, I mean, well, UBW is just 1/3 in first place |
aloricg said: That's because there wasn't an asshole out there, who just decided to say "who the fuck cares if magic goes public" and then summons Cthulhu. The Holy Grail War is meant to be fought in secret. The city isn't supposed to be in danger. And you get that sense of danger at the end of every FSN route, too, so this is premature judgment basically.Insertanamehere said: ? Never get the sense in UBW that the city itself was in danger of being destroyed. Certainly do several times in F/Z. |
aloricg said: Insertanamehere said: ? Never get the sense in UBW that the city itself was in danger of being destroyed. Certainly do several times in F/Z. Just watch the latest episode tho |
CapsuleCore said: aloricg said: That's because there wasn't an asshole out there, who just decided to say "who the fuck cares if magic goes public" and then summons Cthulhu. The Holy Grail War is meant to be fought in secret. The city isn't supposed to be in danger.Never get the sense in UBW that the city itself was in danger of being destroyed. Certainly do several times in F/Z. It is in danger of being destroyed. It is just less obvious one For the reasons you stated. |
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aloricg said: Insertanamehere said: ? Never get the sense in UBW that the city itself was in danger of being destroyed. Certainly do several times in F/Z. Gil wants to kill most of humanity right now so uh |
CookingPriest said: Edit came in, when you posted.It is in danger of being destroyed. It is just less obvious one For the reasons you stated. |
| Because you only got the sense that city was about to be destroyed in the very end of every F/sn route. /Zero just amped up with it due to Cthulhu Caster summoned in the middle of plot. F/sn > F/z in the respect of nature. EDIT: Aaaaand sniped. Why Core |
| Because it brings me endless yuetsu, dear priest. |
MightyM16 said: aloricg said: I decided to give F/Z a try right around the time I was watching or had watched Time of Departure (13) and Princess of Colchis (14), and it took a few more episodes of FSN coming out for me to get all the way through F/Z. A couple of thoughts I've had from seeing it this way... "Oh, that's why Sakura is here.. I was wondering why she even existed.." "Damn, Ilya's life was pretty damn tragic.. sucks that she died." "Wait, do they seriously not know -who- Saber is?" But then there was also this sense that the events of FSN UBW were almost petty or minor in comparison to the first Grail War. The powers of the various noble warriors sure do seem much less exciting. F/SN has three routes, each routes focus on a different set of characters so that's mostly likely why /Zero looks like a more complete work compared to UBW, I mean, well, UBW is just 1/3 in first place I would say it is about a half now tho with the stuff from fate and AO |
Anime is good, fucking deal with it. |
black1blade said: I would probably say read the VN then watch any anime. If you are going anime only then maybe doing release order would be best. Obviously release order means kara no kyoukai first XD where the hell does tsukihime fit into this then? ;p to OP I made the worst start to this series with Deen's F/SN and then watched Zero (priests don't kill me) knowing I missed bits of pieces here and there. I would just go for the VN instead for now then Zero. |
 All credit goes to Sacred. |
| I do enjoy how forum folks will discuss the experience of being an anime-only viewer in this franchise and then reject what someone who actually is one has to say about how they interpret it. "No, your opinion cant possibly be an opinion someone with the exact experience you have and i was asking for would have..." |
FireEmblemIke24 said: black1blade said: I would probably say read the VN then watch any anime. If you are going anime only then maybe doing release order would be best. Obviously release order means kara no kyoukai first XD where the hell does tsukihime fit into this then? ;p to OP I made the worst start to this series with Deen's F/SN and then watched Zero (priests don't kill me) knowing I missed bits of pieces here and there. I would just go for the VN instead for now then Zero. All Ufotable releases by date ;) |
Anime is good, fucking deal with it. |
| They both provide parts to each other's puzzles... so I guess either works in that scenario. UBW has a much more engaging opening though as the beginning of Zero is kind of dull |
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HaXXspetten said: They both provide parts to each other's puzzles... so I guess either works in that scenario. UBW has a much more engaging opening though as the beginning of Zero is kind of dull yeah agreed Zero would definitely have been boring to begin with if I had no prior experience of the series |
All credit goes to Sacred. |
| from my experience after watching ubw up to the current episode. i started zero yesterday and watched the first 6 episodes. i think i am enjoying zero alot more than i would have without ubw knowing about events and reveals in ubw and seeing how things are slowly getting there in zero is great but i guess it comes down to what someone prefers. see things happening in zero or experience the revelation of something that happend previously together with the characters in ubw also don't think i would have loved the first episode of zero so much without ubw |
| Said this last season, and it's even more convincing now. Watch Fate/Zero first if you're only doing the anime. |
| I still maintain that Zero should be watched after HF (which should be watched after UBW, and so on and so forth) because Zero makes no attempt to actually explain what the hell is going on in the ending; all of that is spelled out in HF. If not for that, the order would be significantly less important; some of the ways that Zero nonchalantly spoils HF... are either so widely known that they're almost not even spoilers anymore, or appear right on the fucking poster for the HF films themselves. In any case, however poorly the UBW adaptation is doesn't change any of that. Oh, and final nail in the coffin for the standalone argument: UBW isn't even standalone in the VN. It's part 2 of a 3 part story. Asking for this anime to be standalone would be like asking for each volume of the Lord of the Rings to be standalone. |
fstMay 30, 2015 4:57 PM
fst said: I still maintain that Zero should be watched after HF (which should be watched after UBW, and so on and so forth) because Zero makes no attempt to actually explain what the hell is going on in the ending; all of that is spelled out in HF. If not for that, the order would be significantly less important; some of the ways that Zero nonchalantly spoils HF... are either so widely known that they're almost not even spoilers anymore, or appear right on the fucking poster for the HF films themselves. In any case, however poorly the UBW adaptation is doesn't change any of that. +1 |
DouLou said: The narrative of the Anime was clearly meant for UBW to be a progression of the story for people who have watched Zero. If you don't watch Zero first then you will not care for Gilgamesh or Sabre (whose characters were fleshed out in Zero, and not at all in UBW). I mean Gilgamesh was clearly held back and teased as a "reveal" for people who have watched Zero. Also added to the fact that UBW does nothing for explaining what the Holy Grail war is (well, nowhere near to the level of detail that Zero did). Also the constant references to the past events, the "history" between characters (Sabre and Gilgamesh, Kirei and Rin), heck without watching Zero first you are missing out on ALOT of the emotional connection you should already have to half the cast, even if it's just an emotional connection by association to previous characters. "Sabre" character was explored in the Fate route, not in UBW, HF or Zero. |
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| Honestly, AO viewers who come here, please. Go read the VN first, then form your own opinion. Don't just blabbering around without complete information at hand. You'll just make yourselves look silly. |
| Honestly I would think that watching Fate/Zero would only benefit those that wish to watch Fate/UTB if for no other reasons than that the UTB anime makes so many references to Zero, unlike the original Fate/Stay Night anime. I've noticed quite a few more references to Zero than even the UTB movie made, which is why I would suggest anyone wishing to watch it, invest in the prequel first. While admittedly not watching the prequel wont detract from any enjoyment of this series it would further inform watchers more of the back story and history of the grail war, previous participants and relationships that have crossed between the seasons. |
DouLou said: From an Anime only perspective anyone who says watch UBW before Zero is being incredibly silly, clearly the vast majority of voters are VN readers and are skewing this poll with bias. The poll is for everyone. The OP is asking in terms of adaptations. The narrative of the Anime was clearly meant for UBW to be a progression of the story for people who have watched Zero. If you don't watch Zero first then you will not care for Gilgamesh or Sabre (whose characters were fleshed out in Zero, and not at all in UBW). I mean Gilgamesh was clearly held back and teased as a "reveal" for people who have watched Zero. No. Gil was a reveal since Fate route. It was not a reveal in UBW, it was a casual thing. He was there since episode 0, for crying out loud. And it's 'Saber'. The 'sabre' is a sword. Also added to the fact that UBW does nothing for explaining what the Holy Grail war is (well, nowhere near to the level of detail that Zero did). Because that's Fate's job? Also the constant references to the past events, the "history" between characters (Sabre and Gilgamesh, Kirei and Rin), heck without watching Zero first you are missing out on ALOT of the emotional connection you should already have to half the cast, even if it's just an emotional connection by association to previous characters. Umm, Zero is secondary. Before Zero was written, the VN readers understood everything from Fate. Not. Zero. All I can say is that as an Anime only viewer if I had started Stay/Night without watching Zero first I would have not made it past the first episode, the Anime is clearly told in a way that assumes you have seen Zero first. The voting in this poll baffles me and I can only assume the VN tells the story in a different way, or a way that at least doesn't rely so much on Zero to have an understanding of the story or have any emotional connection to the characters. No, dude. Just no. Y no Fate route UFO? ProphecyPriest said: Honestly, AO viewers who come here, please. Go read the VN first, then form your own opinion. Don't just blabbering around without complete information at hand. You'll just make yourselves look silly. This comment so much. |
The sun is a deadly laser |
DouLou said: From an Anime only perspective anyone who says watch UBW before Zero is being incredibly silly, clearly the vast majority of voters are VN readers and are skewing this poll with bias. Yes, the bias of having seen the story in it's entirety and having seen the full picture as opposed to talking out of their assholes like you. |
DouLou said: From an Anime only perspective anyone who says watch UBW before Zero is being incredibly silly, clearly the vast majority of voters are VN readers and are skewing this poll with bias. Do you fools hear this mongrel? Absolutely glorious.  |
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| Damn that poll is close I voted for F/Zero watch first btw. |
   I envy your delusion; I wish I could live in it  |
| F/Z spoils Fate and HF the most. UBW? Not nearly as much. But UBW isn't the problem. The thing is, only Fate is a proper "prequel" to UBW, just like UBW is a "prequel" to HF. What does Fate do? Servers as foreshadowing for UBW (e.g. Shirou's projection magic) and explains Saber's backstory in depth. These things aren't essential to enjoy UBW by any means, but understanding them and knowing the characters better is important to enjoy UBW to the fullest extent. Likewise, UBW foreshadows things that'll be seen in HF. Since F/SN gets deeper each route, it's not a surprise that reading or watching UBW before HF is crucial. UBW is much more important for you to enjoy (and even be able to understand) HF than Fate is to UBW. Now, what does watching F/Z before UBW do? It shows anime viewers some things they missed if they decided to skip reading Fate - mostly stuff related to Saber, Kiritsugu, and Gilgamesh -, but like I said before, these things aren't essential to enjoy UBW in the first place. Most of what F/Z spoils here is stuff you'd already know if you'd read Fate - aside from a few major spoilers that are only revealed in HF. However, F/Z only helps viewers understand some things a little more easily - it doesn't really explain these things like Fate does. As for watching F/Z before HF? It doesn't really help you understand anything. All it does is spoil the mystery and the plot twists. That's the sort of stuff you can't experience twice. It may be cool to notice a few things here and there - just like when you see/read a mysterious story for the second time -, but that's a different experience altogether. It doesn't mean you won't find F/Z enjoyable, but your first experience won't be the "ideal" one either. So no, I don't think F/Z is a good way to bridge the gap left behind by the lack of a Fate adaptation. Unless you enjoy being spoiled, reading Fate before watching UBW and HF is the least you can do, assuming you want to understand F/SN better. Reading a single route doesn't take that long at all. And if you aren't that interested in the Fate series, then not knowing a few Fate-related things probably won't bother you that much. DouLou said: From an Anime only perspective anyone who says watch UBW before Zero is being incredibly silly, clearly the vast majority of voters are VN readers and are skewing this poll with bias. This is actually funny... hahaha Would you care to tell me how you're actually entitled to vote? Have you watched both UBW and HF? Because that's clearly what the poll is about. As far as I know, UBW is still being adapted and we don't even know when the first HF movie will come out. Long story short, your opinion isn't valid unless you've read the novel. Perhaps for UBW, even though it's still airing. But most definitely not for HF. In other words, you're the only one biased here. For your information, UBW is the least spoiled route. |
FlamepriesTMay 30, 2015 5:47 PM
| >First two words in the title are "ANIME ONLY" >First thing some people say are "read the vn" Good job on getting the point of the thread. As for me I wouldn't care about this if I hadn't watched Zero so there's that. |
| hmmm hard to really say. quite frankly i almost even wanna recommend DEEN for the simple fact that F/Z is in no way a substitute for FAte. sure F/Z gives you some mild understandings of what is going on but ultimately it barely tells you shit. and gives you misleading impressions. then fucking vampires and shit randomly show up. some of the biggest fuss that has been going on these past few months is F/Z viewers talking out of their asses when they didnt even understand what the hell even happened in F/Z let alone what's going on during FSN. then they keep spewing shit out their mouths about things that they werent even suppose to think about due to the storytelling order. but but but why didnt this happen or why arnet these things talked about? because you werent suppose to think about them until it was time to. |
| if you're anime only viewer I'd definitly say you should watch fate/zero first before ufotable ubw. If you're even thinking of sometimes or someday reading the visual novel then don't and read the visual novel first! Will have a lot more impact that way. But for anime only viewers I'd say either watch old fsn --> f/z ---> ufotable fsn ubw ---> ufotable fsn hf movie(s) OR just simply event like chronological order (with fsn 2006 as second if you don't mind having another series with extremely low quality after fate/zero) f/z ---> (fsn 2006 - not necessarily but personally I don't think it's wrong to include it here) --->fsn ubw tv ---> fsn hf Also I think that just watching ufotable ubw in the beginning of the franchise is not recommendable. It will enormly reduce your enjoymend to understand everything and all the relations and stuff while watching a series which is basically made for people who either already read the visual novel or watched fate/zero or watched the old deen anime adaption(s). Unlike fate/zero the show is not really that much beginner friendly and made for someone with no knowledge at all >in my opinion<. Some people will probably decline but for me it definitly feels that way. But most really depends on how they will adapt heavens feel route. If they do it quite well then starting with ubw might not even be a bad idea.... xD |
Crystalis777May 30, 2015 5:58 PM
| Something something something |
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