| There's a discussion going on in a Ergo Proxy thread at the moment and I say: Cihan said: I find the stories that are 'deepest' are ones that dont specifically cite 'deep' topics in their narrative and dialogue. They're deep because of subtext or metaphor that the viewer feels like they're discovering on their own. I cant think of an anime example but Sympathy For Mr Vengeance is deep not because of characters monologuing about philosophical topics but because of their actions and reactions, through mis-en-scene and all that. It's very telling that I cant think of any 'deep' anime off the top of my head... So... can you guys think of any deep anime? How do you define 'deep'? I thought about it a bit more and have come up: Ghost In The Shell 1 Ghost In The Shell: Innocence (yes, a lot of blatant monologues citing philosophers, but its supported by a compelling narrative and 'doll' imagery + themes that is eerie in its insight) Akira (as a shrewd reflection of Japan and its history/relationship with technology) 5 Centimeters per Second (a really honest look at relationships, dressed up as typical anime but with a stark resolution that I'm sure disappointed a lot of viewers, but hey: thats life folks) Jin-Roh the Wolf Brigade (my memory of this is vague, but I do remember thinking it was a brilliant film full of subtext and commentary...) Perfect Blue (now a classic I think? A pretty good psychological thriller, commentary on Japan's fixation on idols?) Millennium Actress (I cant remember much about this one either, but thought it was amazing. Is it deep?) Kino's Journey (this isnt clever, but its storytelling I found masterful, simply because its so simple, its like modern day fairy tales) Mushishi (deep? Discuss) |
"I'm starting to think mal is run by Xinil generating electricity on a bicycle." - idklol |
| Neon Genesis Evangelion is one of the deepest to me, and yeah definitely Mushishi. :D Deep anime are always my favs, though Im not sure if my definition of deep is the same as yours or not. There are more, I just can't think right now.. |
| A deep anime to me would generally be any anime which thoroughly explores all aspects it deals with. For example, a deep romance would realistically portray the psychology of the main characters, their actions, thoughts and worries. Societal, financial, temporal and spatial aspects could also be considered. The more intertwining between different faces of the same topic, the better, at least for me. I've been watching Planetes lately, and there have been a considerable amount of deep moments. Episode 11 touched me especially. Until now, I don't think I've watched any other anime I could classify as deep, though. |
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| For me, "deep" always meant "thought provoking." While FLCL isn't my favorite anime, I think it's the most thought provoking I've ever seen. |
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| The word 'Pretentious' is THE most laziest form of criticism in the history of criticism. Most of the time people who use that word dont even know wtf they mean, they just dont like something they dont understand and cant be bothered or are not actually capable of explaining their views. |
"I'm starting to think mal is run by Xinil generating electricity on a bicycle." - idklol |
llxwarbirdxll said: Let's change the title to "anime for the pretensious". Basically. Ghost in the Shell is over-pretentious nonsense to me, and NGE is hardly "deep." A lot of the crap in that show was cosmetic gloss. Also, there are shows that make me think but I don't believe are overly deep, with Shigofumi being a recent example. It is very unsubtle, but it makes me want to bash people upside the head with a random blunt object, while at the same time making me question the fabrics of human society itself. Same deal with Kino's Journey here. |
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| Honey and Clover I want to make that required viewing for every college student. |
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| Well i watched quite a few of those mentioned above and i agree that most(if not all) of them make you think and can be defined as "deep" I love those kind of animes and i really watch them allot whenever I'm not too tired(^^;) Anyway i would just add Haibane Renmei Monster Air Grave of the Fireflies Mind Game Only Yesterday Toki wo Kakeru Shoujo The Place Promised in Our Early Days and i guess Fullmetal Alchemist to this list. But i guess you can learn something from everything if you see the thing you can learn from it.^^ |
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Lelangir said: Every story is equally "thought provoking" as they are equally based forms of knowledge. Thats true. Whenever I use the phrase 'thought-provoking' I mean that the film compels you to think in a way you wouldnt normally, its basically challenging your current belief-system in some manner or offering you another viewpoint. I suppose its only thought-provoking if you accept the challenge, otherwise...its 'pretentious'. ;) |
"I'm starting to think mal is run by Xinil generating electricity on a bicycle." - idklol |
| Oh! Edo Rocket. I'm 100% serious. If you peel back the surface layer of silliness (it's not actually about the rocket) it's a spiritual successor to some of the best actual Edo period literature. Po-mo otakufied Saikaku FTW. |
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| I would suggest not making comments when you don't know what you're talking about. |
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llxwarbirdxll said: Let's change the title to "anime for the pretensious". Yes! Even though you spelled it wrong ^^; I define "deep" anime as anything that makes me think. Most anime you can watch mindlessly for pure enjoyment, but there are a few that are much deeper than those. Death Note of course, with the psychological and societal implications it covers. Honey & Clover covered every emotional struggle in the spectrum of relationships, in a heartbreaking way. Ray for societal commentary. That's all I can think of... this type of anime tends to bore me to death. |
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| School Days. . . . ahahaha |
| Naruto this anime is just amazingly deep in its emotional spectrum the characters are so original and the story is sooooo big Bleach this is the best ive ever seen of all the 5 animes ive watched and its amasing how ichigo fights and tries to control his inner demons which is totali deep |
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Ivantrollet said: Naruto this anime is just amazingly deep in its emotional spectrum the characters are so original and the story is sooooo big Bleach this is the best ive ever seen of all the 5 animes ive watched and its amasing how ichigo fights and tries to control his inner demons which is totali deep I can't tell if he's serious or joking. |
Karura said: I can't tell if he's serious or joking. Really? You only need to look at the name. |
Asako said: Karura said: I can't tell if he's serious or joking. Really? You only need to look at the name. I noticed that, but I went in a little deeper and read his profile info. |
| im totally serous guis. internet is sereus place u know |
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| Anyways, Monster comes to mind for me. It's hard to explain but as many people who've seen it will tell you, watching that anime is like going on a journey yourself, with the characters and the story. Overall it's just a really mature and realistic anime that brings in a lot of violent themes from the world itself and whatnot. Meh, I'm terrible at explaining but yeah. =P Deep for me ... I'm not sure if I really care for the term though honestly because it's usually extremely subjective, but then again so is just about everything out there from one person to another on any subject. |
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| Ergo Proxy... gets you thinking, and philosophical... |
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| well it depends what you mean by 'deep'. for me 'deep' meaning emotional and meaningful, in which case ef - a tale of memories does a good job. however, if you mean philosophical or complex, i would say princess mononoke or uta kata. |
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| Angel's Egg is very deep. It has very little dialog in the whole thing. It just sort of unfolds... |
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| Being deep doesn't mean anything. What's more important is how you present that theme and how you build your plot and character deveopment around it. For example, I can never understand how Lord of the Flies can get a Nobel Prize (I know it's not an anime). It has a brilliant theme. The plot is also not bad and there are numerous literature devices used. However, the characterization in this novel IMO is really average. None of the characters speak to me, and the heavy dialogues fail to deliver any complex emotions. |
| Jesus, it's pretty subjective. I mean, I wouldn't say Cowboy Bebop has a coherent message, but its characters have a lot of depth to them--does that make it a "deep" anime? Then there's, say, Serial Experiments Lain which is actively trying to provoke the viewer and make them question their surroundings. I count both, personally, but the latter is probably more relavent. |
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| The deepest ones to me were School Days and Now and Then Here and There. School Days because it caught me completely off guard, I was thinking it to be just another harem romance type, and never saw that coming... it was stuck in my mind for days after. Now and Then Here and There was just bleak the whole time, a desperate struggle for survival, and that was really touching to me. |
| I would say that Mushishi is one of the deepest animes I've seen. It really takes up many different subjects and it feels like you're discovering new things. The whole thinking in Mushishi is... really something deep. Hopefully someone can discuss this better than me ^^. |
| eureka seven, paranoia agent, flcl.... meh well eureka seven is deep anyways. |
-= Quote of the week=- "To every action there is always opposed an equal reaction." -Isaac Newton |
| Profoundly deep? I wouldn't say deep = pretentious but certain anime that make you say what?! out-loud sometimes... Some of these have already been listed here but I'll say 'em again... See tag: psychological Monster Kino No Tabi Mushishi Neon Genesis Evangelion Melody of Oblivion :D Petshop of Horrors Death Note Serial Experiments Lain Anything by Satoshi Kon (Perfect Blue, Paranoia Agent, Paprika, Millennium Actress) |
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| I felt that Blood+ was somewhat deep and seemed to incorporate symbolism which made me like it even more. |
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| I'm surprised that no one has mentioned Barefoot Gen (although I do note that Grave of the Fireflies has been mentioned). Considering the autobiographical nature of the anime and the manga, and the actual content of the story, I would have thought it would provoke deep introspection in anyone who watched it, especially as, even now, there are extremely few first hand accounts of the devastation caused by the atomic bombs dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and for many people across the world (especially in Japan and America), it is still very much a taboo subject. |
| What a day! What a lovely Day! |
| Pokemon - A whitewashed account of animal abuse and slavery. The content suggests that the intelligent and emotional Pokemon share the human trainer's (slave driver's) will to engage others of it's ilk in a violent test of superiority and will even become friends with them, sending a message to children about how cool it is to have their pets fight it out and how captivity is no big deal. Even Digimon weren't kept in friggin' balls. |
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| The only anime I'd consider "deep" are Perfect Blue, Haibane Renmei and Serial Experiments Lain. They make you question reality and allow for multiple interpretations. Just because something is psychological (Death Note, Monster) doesn't mean it's deep. To me, one aspect of a "deep" anime is something that you can interpret many different ways but those two have a pretty straight-forward story. :/ I don't like calling anime "pretentious" but to me, the Ghost in the Shell series is the epitome of pretentious anime. |
DanishAug 22, 2008 11:45 AM
| Perfect Blue is far from "deep". Excellently written, yes, presented well, yes. In all aspects an excellent psychological thriller, but there's no "deep" to it, just putting together the pieces of a genuine Satoshi Kon story. Like I posted in this thread's flaming counterpart, Death Note is far from "deep", it's a kid show, we all love it. |
| "Deep" is an interesting thing. From my understanding of it, it's something that deals with big picture things or something esoteric, theoretical, or hard to grasp. Or deep having many layers set to figure out, that the view him/herself doesn't have to create from their own imagination. In other words, deep means complicated, without the user having to set their own mind to complicate things. Things such as philosophy, theology, politics, and doing so in a serious fashion which makes the viewer think about such things. Those would be considered "deep" from my understanding. What was "deep" about Serial Experiments Lain? Well, it was a great way of expressing traditional shaman religion, something native to Japan, alongside technology. And presents actual scientific theories that go with it. Considering it's Japan, and Shinto is a Shamanist religion, it's unsurprising to see a Japanese story like to turn to science to prove a belief, and use an anime to convey the theme. It's like a continuation of the book Cyberia, in anime form. Very appropriate for a country whose native religion is a Shamanic one. There's also a lot to think about in relation to Lain herself merely to understand things. There's also something very subjective to "deep" in that it also represents something that seems mysterious or mystical to the viewer. |
 Old avatar and sig retired for now. |
Cihan said: Lelangir said: Every story is equally "thought provoking" as they are equally based forms of knowledge. Thats true. Whenever I use the phrase 'thought-provoking' I mean that the film compels you to think in a way you wouldnt normally, its basically challenging your current belief-system in some manner or offering you another viewpoint. I suppose its only thought-provoking if you accept the challenge, otherwise...its 'pretentious'. ;) This way of thinking leads me to only two conclusions (and having seen so many already listed in this thread): Jigoku Shoujo and Mai-Hime ... odd? I never considered either a 'deep' anime, but I haven't given it much thought either. |
| I am surprised no one mentioned Revolutionary Girl Utena. A while back, I was reading some commentary on Watchmen and the controversy on whether it is considered "literature" or not. One of the definition given was that literature revolves more on the implied then the explicit. It is not what the staff want the staff want the show to be about, but rather what the story and characters imply. About emotional depths, just because you have a strong emotional connection with the characters and are often on the seat of your pants does not mean it is deep. Despite not being from anime, a good example of something of increadible emotional deapth would be the opening montage from Pixar's UP. Not only is it very emotional, but also revolves around a more implied idea of a dream postponed until they realized they were too old to live it. |
| "In the Beginning, the creative energy radiates from within." - No, no. That's Lame. Sounds like something out of a Jodorowsky comic. The Tokusyu Manga Club - Features alternative comics/avant-garde comics/outsider comics/psychdelic comics/surrealistic comics/underground comics + La Nouvelle Manga (part of Alternative). If I'm here, its because I have nothing better to do. |
| Deep - of penetrating intellect (Merriam Webbster dictionary) Anime that struck me as being deep, either through plot, characters, themes, ideologies, philosophies, story or event. Deep anime: Black Lagoon - An anime representing the evil side of humanity, the bestial, brutal nature residing in all people, and the root causes behind these dark emotions from the perspectives of an outsider, the neutral person Cowboy Bebop - Well, character and story wise, this anime is deep. Depicts a world after a global catastrophe very well; despite its futuristic and rather unrealistic settomg, the bounty hunting aspect is portrayed very well Honey and Clover - Goes into depth on the joys and challenges of college life, has lots of wisdom throown in and great insights. Also, the metaphors and dialogue used as well as the character interactions tend to be very complex True Tears - An anime about one's true emotions, their true feelings. Has great characters whose objectives and thoughts are not always black and white. Ask the questions of when do people cry, and the idea that only people who are very special to someone are able to give or take tears away from another has been one of my favourites to date So far, I've seen many different anime but these are the ones that I would regard as deep, not necessarily the best, but deep. |
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| RomexJuliet. I'm not sure how I would define deep. I think that any anime that I watch that can bring out an emotion is deep. Because it was able to express something different that trigers your emotions. Also the background and the connection your able to make with the chrs. If that makes any sense. |
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| Dictionary.com Pretentious: –adjective 1. full of pretense or pretension. 2. characterized by assumption of dignity or importance. 3. making an exaggerated outward show; ostentatious. Pretense: –noun 1. pretending or feigning; make-believe: My sleepiness was all pretense. 2. a false show of something: a pretense of friendship. 3. a piece of make-believe. 4. the act of pretending or alleging falsely. 5. a false allegation or justification: He excused himself from the lunch on a pretense of urgent business. 6. insincere or false profession: His pious words were mere pretense. 7. the putting forth of an unwarranted claim. 8. the claim itself. 9. any allegation or claim: to obtain money under false pretenses. 10. pretension (usually fol. by to): destitute of any pretense to wit. 11. pretentiousness. Also, especially British, pretence. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Origin: 1375–1425; late ME < AF < ML *praetēnsa, n. use of fem. of praetēnsus, ptp. (r. L praetentus) of praetendere to pretend Related forms: pre⋅tense⋅ful, adjective pre⋅tense⋅less, adjective Synonyms: 1. shamming. 2. semblance. 3. mask, veil. You obviously can tell that the word has been incorrectly throughout this forum. The only prentious anime that I can think of are the post-Evangelion shows that tried to use the shows popularity to get more money. I find that they fail intellectuallly and try to copy the profoundness of the show. Finally, the ideas must be original because it is possible to make something intelligent by simply plagiarisnig. I find it odd that we are discussing this topic in an anime and manga perspective. Philosophers have been tackling this topic for centuries and the debate still continues. The best contribution to this discussion would be Kant, but there is no anime and manga that refrences him (but good luck reading him, he is probably one of the hardest reads in the world). |
| "In the Beginning, the creative energy radiates from within." - No, no. That's Lame. Sounds like something out of a Jodorowsky comic. The Tokusyu Manga Club - Features alternative comics/avant-garde comics/outsider comics/psychdelic comics/surrealistic comics/underground comics + La Nouvelle Manga (part of Alternative). If I'm here, its because I have nothing better to do. |
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