| I'm going to do a word by word analysis of my now infamous opening sentence... NxK said: You know one thing that brings many anime across all genres together - there have to be some attractive teenage girls in there somewhere! And it doesn't matter if it's at the expense of the show's logic! I said: You know one {here I ONE, not THE ONLY, or THE ONE; meaning that this is one of more possible common aspects} that brings many{one or two shows per season still add up to a quantity which you can describe as many; agian this was not ALL, EVERY etc.} anime across all genres {admittedly this is where I made a sweeping statement; however if you just consider the basic genres - action, romance, comedy, etc. I'm sure you can find an example of each which features teenage girls...} together - there have to be some attractive teenage girls in there somewhere! And it doesn't matter if it's at the expense of the show's logic! {this refers just to those "many" shows... not each and every anime... you get the point} |
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| It was fun while it lasted. |
Makomonogatari said: lupadim said: The best part is that you somehow actually exist.And the best part is that no one can prove it wrong |
NxK said: I'm going to do a word by word analysis of my now infamous opening sentence... NxK said: You know one thing that brings many anime across all genres together - there have to be some attractive teenage girls in there somewhere! And it doesn't matter if it's at the expense of the show's logic! I said: You know one {here I ONE, not THE ONLY, or THE ONE; meaning that this is one of more possible common aspects} that brings many{one or two shows per season still add up to a quantity which you can describe as many; agian this was not ALL, EVERY etc.} anime across all genres {admittedly this is where I made a sweeping statement; however if you just consider the basic genres - action, romance, comedy, etc. I'm sure you can find an example of each which features teenage girls...} together - there have to be some attractive teenage girls in there somewhere! And it doesn't matter if it's at the expense of the show's logic! {this refers just to those "many" shows... not each and every anime... you get the point} I wouldn't worry about trying to justify your intention at this point, vultures don't care if the corpse is dead or alive, they're hungry. One example I'll throw down for fun is Vividred Operation - the world is in danger and the only ones that can save it are teenage girls. And the only way they can save it? By transforming into fancy skirts that flip up for countless pantyshots! |
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| It's always more plausible when teenage boys save the world. |
Makomonogatari said: lupadim said: The best part is that you somehow actually exist.And the best part is that no one can prove it wrong |
miereneronaile said: Anime_Guru_FBI said: I would go ahead and point out that anime with females wearing little clothing is meant for male audiences to stay engaged for more reasons than the plot. An example of when sexualized females didn't make too much sense in the plot would probably be shows like Vividred operation (I think that's what it was called). That being said, there ain't nobody complaining! Most of the time, the writers throw in female characters (assuming non-fanservice characters) for diversity or to make the show meet the appeal of certain audiences. Coppelion surely did have teenage females as the MCs, but as someone already pointed out, it made sense plot wise for them to be teenagers. As for why they are females, why the fuck not? Why the distinction between them being all males and all females? EDIT: For our arguing community members, I can't stop laughing lol. In regards to vividred... I wanted to be in the suit, tighty whitey shots yespls. |
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Red_Keys said: OP, just edit your first post so this nonsense can stop. It still didn't make sense to me, as he mentioned Coppelion as bad writing even though he just watched one episode of it. The topic itself might makes sense (moe-ism, men are disposable gender, etc. is not that weird), but the justification and examples he use is terrible. Related On topic: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MenAreTheExpendableGender |
| The most important things in life is the people that you care about |
| In Japan there is a widespread pronoun; "Something can always be made better with the addition of schoolgirls". They seem to love following it. |
InfiniteRufus said: In Japan there is a widespread pronoun; "Something can always be made better with the addition of schoolgirls". They seem to love following it. It just really proves the Japanese have really shitty taste. Hell most of the best anime are influenced by he west, see Cowboy Bebop. |
Dubs>subs. Breaking Bad>Anime Comic books>manga 99% of Anime is Garbage |
| There's no pretext. There's never any pretext. They're just always there regardless of the situation. They did not shoehorn the ships in to have the girls. They shoehorned the girl into a show about ships. It was originally just a manga about boats. Then, to put the cherry on top and make it suitable for consumption by the general public... he made the ship's avatar a loli. Please understand that this is how the industry works. That's all there is to it. That's all there ever was to it. |
| Anime creators need to arouse their teenage audience by including stupid and busty girls in anime. That's how anime works. |
Xinil said: Thanks for joining MAL. JOIN MAH CLUB http://myanimelist.net/clubs.php?cid=38595 |
TallonKarrde23 said: miereneronaile said: Can someone explain to me why the fuck they need a pretext to put hot girls in my animes in the first place? Because "manime" kids who have seen 30 anime tend to forget all their shows are full of overly sexualized women as well, and they think bitching about it being 'in many shows' when they've seen not enough to even claim "a small bit" they do this to pander makes some kind of valid argument against anything. Except that he is right. Ive seen about 300 anime excluding movies and ovas, but hey thats probably still not enough for you. The truth is that anime overuses the highschool setting and highschool girls with not real logic backing it and just for the sake of it. |
Red_Keys said: So wait... everyone here is chewing each other's asses over.. a listing thread?He's saying to give examples and discuss silly reasons that unnecessary female characters are shoehorned into the story for. I mean, just read Kimi no Iru Machi, and you'll instantly know what he's talking about :S Come on guys.. you're arguing for no reason. FUCKING LISTING THREADS, I SWEAR. |
Females are the only gender that can physically operate a military-class battle suit. Oh yeah, except for this one guy, but he doesn't really matter. --Infinite StratosDid I do it right? |
This topic has not been locked and is still available for discussion. |
| Um, silliest pretext to include teenage girls...I'm not really sure about this actually. Say, something like Strike Witches, where they're magic-using soldiers who fight without pants on. I can't see how ANYBODY in their position could make what they're doing look cool. Rather than the inclusion of teenage girls being the weird thing, the premise of these kinds shows are just inherently weird. |
ShockedOct 8, 2013 11:42 PM
TallonKarrde23 said: NxK said: Which do you consider to be the worst offenders ? The people who have seen 29 anime and think they can discuss the industry on such a wide-sweeping level while ignoring their ignorance on the topic. Did you seriously went to this over the fucking word "many"? save it for other threads, you will have a lot of opportunities. |
| As long as the show is good there is never a pretext too silly. For example, Girls und Panzer and Sora no Woto are absolutely fantastic |
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| I love how Mars of destruction doesn't even try to justify it, like any other of its random as fuck plot decisions. |
| what if they're not actually teenage girls but just looks like teenage girls |
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| I'm still waiting for the explanation of why the girls in Coppelion are wearing high school uniforms. I haven't noticed this a lot or even remember being bothered by it in another show,but you have to admit it's silly in Coppelion,especially considering the nature of what they do. |
Salxer said: I'm still waiting for the explanation of why the girls in Coppelion are wearing high school uniforms. I haven't noticed this a lot or even remember being bothered by it in another show,but you have to admit it's silly in Coppelion,especially considering the nature of what they do. Brotwo said: Coppelion's reasoning for having teenage girls makes sense. We learn in the first episode I didn't even bother to try Apreggio or Unbreakable Machine-Doll, so I can't say much about that. Now, for me the worst scenario is scientific constructs/technology that only works with teenagers/kids for some unexplained or silly reason. |
luteum said: Salxer said: I'm still waiting for the explanation of why the girls in Coppelion are wearing high school uniforms. I haven't noticed this a lot or even remember being bothered by it in another show,but you have to admit it's silly in Coppelion,especially considering the nature of what they do. Brotwo said: Coppelion's reasoning for having teenage girls makes sense. We learn in the first episode I didn't even bother to try Apreggio or Unbreakable Machine-Doll, so I can't say much about that. Now, for me the worst scenario is scientific constructs/technology that only works with teenagers/kids for some unexplained or silly reason. Still doesnt explain why they have to be female and why the fuck they wear skirts doing that kind of work... |
luteum said: Salxer said: I'm still waiting for the explanation of why the girls in Coppelion are wearing high school uniforms. I haven't noticed this a lot or even remember being bothered by it in another show,but you have to admit it's silly in Coppelion,especially considering the nature of what they do. Brotwo said: Coppelion's reasoning for having teenage girls makes sense. We learn in the first episode I didn't even bother to try Apreggio or Unbreakable Machine-Doll, so I can't say much about that. Now, for me the worst scenario is scientific constructs/technology that only works with teenagers/kids for some unexplained or silly reason. So do they actually go to school?if they do,why the hell would they go discovering dead bodies in their uniforms?did you notice how short those skirts were?not very convenient. I'm not asking about their age,but their outfits.It stood out in the first episode and not in a good way. |
baki502 said: luteum said: Salxer said: I'm still waiting for the explanation of why the girls in Coppelion are wearing high school uniforms. I haven't noticed this a lot or even remember being bothered by it in another show,but you have to admit it's silly in Coppelion,especially considering the nature of what they do. Brotwo said: Coppelion's reasoning for having teenage girls makes sense. We learn in the first episode I didn't even bother to try Apreggio or Unbreakable Machine-Doll, so I can't say much about that. Now, for me the worst scenario is scientific constructs/technology that only works with teenagers/kids for some unexplained or silly reason. Still doesnt explain why they have to be female and why the fuck they wear skirts doing that kind of work... To show off their legs, duh, it's all about that sex appeal. |
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| @Salxer The uniforms don't make sense for the job they're doing. My post was in response to the TC originally saying how the characters themselves didn't make sense in their setting. (When there's actually a pretty above average backstory about their implementation) The post doesn't properly cover the statement luteum used it for. As for why the uniforms don't make sense (from page 3, amidst the shitstorm of Tallon and others) - Brotwo said: NxK said: 'Actually, Coppelion's reason is pretty solid compared to others. Although the miniskirts are still hard to justify lol http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Stripperiffic and the related tropes if you're interested. Wouldn't make for a interesting turn on this topic since it's already been discussed to death. |
Brotwo said: @Salxer The uniforms don't make sense for the job they're doing. My post was in response to the TC originally saying how the characters themselves didn't make sense in their setting. (When there's actually a pretty above average backstory about their implementation) The post doesn't properly cover the statement luteum used it for. As for why the uniforms don't make sense (from page 3, amidst the shitstorm of Tallon and others) - Brotwo said: NxK said: 'Actually, Coppelion's reason is pretty solid compared to others. Although the miniskirts are still hard to justify lol http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Stripperiffic and the related tropes if you're interested. Wouldn't make for a interesting turn on this topic since it's already been discussed to death. Yeah I know,it was the for the person who quoted me. It makes sense why they decided to use high school (apparently?) girls with short skirts in the show,especially considering the target audience,but when talking about the world of the show itself,it doesn't make much sense and quite honestly makes it harder to take seriously (so far at least,it could somehow change later). |
| Oda no Nobuna, the genius strategist was a little girl. Outbreak Company has a little loli girl as a emperor or w/e she was, I don't remember many, but I know there are a lot I have seen. |
IHAFUF said: Oda no Nobuna, the genius strategist was a little girl. Outbreak Company has a little loli girl as a emperor or w/e she was, I don't remember many, but I know there are a lot I have seen. Oda Nobuna was there because it is the main purpose of the show. A rom-com between MC and her. It is not just her, the other characters was also gender swapped for the purpose of harem. For outbreak Company, it is there to mock the boorish ojou-sama, loli-pettanko-tsundere cliche and a fuel for otaku pandering. In fact, that show put so much cliche in one episode that I lost count. |
| The most important things in life is the people that you care about |
| Arata naru Sekai: Mirai-hen We need to send some people to the future to save the present. Let's send four teenage girls. |
NxK said: You know a thing that sicks out in some shows - a silly justification for the presence of attractive teenage girls in the story, even if it's at the expense of the show's logic. For example, this season's Arpeggio made me chuckle: We are being attacked by sentient ships... which all happen to manifest themselves as teenage girls! Or Coppelion: The only humans able to resist the radiation... are a bunch of teenage girls! (Even though I like both of these shows, it's still funny). Also: I'm going to have my very own battle automaton... shaped exactly as a teenage girl! (Unbreakable Machine-Doll) Which do you consider to be the worst offenders ? The pre-edit opening phrase which sparked the debate: You know one thing that brings many anime across all genres together - there have to be some attractive teenage girls in there somewhere! And it doesn't matter if it's at the expense of the show's logic! As noted, Coppelion's story provides good reason for them being teenagers (girls, with miniskirts, otoh . . . ). After all, only 20 years after the incident, there's no way anyone who was genetically designed to go there could be beyond their teens. None. They could use some means of accelerating growth, but it would only be cosmetic, since actual age would still not change. Funny how that is. Arpeggio is not far off either. In fact, it fits better than Coppelion. It's not really much of a spoiler, but: That makes a heck of a lot more sense than, say, aliens that seem to think Otaku culture is a universal world standard (Asobi ni Iku yo! comes to mind). I do have to admit on Unbreakable Machine Doll though. No reason for that, just like other combat robot girls (Mahoromatic, Steel Angel Kurumi), swords that turn into cute teenage girls (Seiken no Blacksmith), teenage avatars of guns (Upotte), our front line against an alien invasion (Iriya no Sora, UFO no Natsu, Strike Witches), and doomsday weapons (Saikano). But honestly, I'd probably go with things like Rocket Girls. Unlike the others, where there's at least some internal logic for it, Rocket Girls gives a contrived reason that can actually be fulfilled without using underage girls. Not all adults are as big as I am after all. And of course, it's still set in a time and place where legal issues should be nixing the whole program. |
Brotwo said: Coppelion's reasoning for having teenage girls makes sense. We learn in the first episode Well they sure did a shitty job in "genetically engineering" them, seeing how they act like highschool brats.. You'd say Super soldier military group would discipline their "genetic" soldiers to be tough, no emotions, cold, and unforgiven. And most likely be guys, seeing how those always fit the bill. But apparently, the best way to craft soldiers, is to fool people into thinking they're simple teenage highschool girls in a post apocalyptic environment where sending them to a high school is a better thing to do than teaching them in the military base, which... you know, every military who would do such a thing would do. makes perfect sense, indeed. I tried watching coppelion, but i honestly cannot take any of these new animes serious anymore.. They introduce an awesome story concept, and what do they do? Put in cute adorable females. Its the same reason i don't plan on watching that new movie "Enders Game" A cool concept is great, until you start putting in Kids as the main cast. Then it just gets stupid. I totally agree with the OP. We need more mature characters, more mature male MC's that aren't just a progression stone for the oh so generic female cast. |
ZappaBappa said: Ender's game is about a kid. It always has been, and there is a very good reason for it in the original story, so picking on it for that is like complaining that Harry Potter movies focus too much on school. You're free to be biased, but to suggest it's just "throwing kids in" without checking whether there's a valid reason makes for a pathetic argument. The only question is how faithfully the movie will follow (probably not so well: they'll probably play down some of the nastier school and bullying stuff and play up the fleet battles).I tried watching coppelion, but i honestly cannot take any of these new animes serious anymore.. They introduce an awesome story concept, and what do they do? Put in cute adorable females. Its the same reason i don't plan on watching that new movie "Enders Game" A cool concept is great, until you start putting in Kids as the main cast. Then it just gets stupid. I totally agree with the OP. We need more mature characters, more mature male MC's that aren't just a progression stone for the oh so generic female cast. And if you don't like gratuitous kids, you can always check for unique titles like Psycho Pass and Black Heaven, and many others similar to Cowboy Bebop or Trigun that eschew that. While not particularly common, they've always still been there. |
ZappaBappa said: Brotwo said: Coppelion's reasoning for having teenage girls makes sense. We learn in the first episode Well they sure did a shitty job in "genetically engineering" them, seeing how they act like highschool brats.. You'd say Super soldier military group would discipline their "genetic" soldiers to be tough, no emotions, cold, and unforgiven. And most likely be guys, seeing how those always fit the bill. But apparently, the best way to craft soldiers, is to fool people into thinking they're simple teenage highschool girls in a post apocalyptic environment where sending them to a high school is a better thing to do than teaching them in the military base, which... you know, every military who would do such a thing would do. makes perfect sense, indeed. I tried watching coppelion, but i honestly cannot take any of these new animes serious anymore.. They introduce an awesome story concept, and what do they do? Put in cute adorable females. Its the same reason i don't plan on watching that new movie "Enders Game" A cool concept is great, until you start putting in Kids as the main cast. Then it just gets stupid. I totally agree with the OP. We need more mature characters, more mature male MC's that aren't just a progression stone for the oh so generic female cast. I could mention one thing that could makes you think the other way around: Gunslinger Girl |
| The most important things in life is the people that you care about |
Cupquake said: Anime never does illogical things. Don't be silly. |
| my avatar is the bus driver from Rosario + Vampire |
ZappaBappa said: Brotwo said: Coppelion's reasoning for having teenage girls makes sense. We learn in the first episode Well they sure did a shitty job in "genetically engineering" them, seeing how they act like highschool brats.. You'd say Super soldier military group would discipline their "genetic" soldiers to be tough, no emotions, cold, and unforgiven. And most likely be guys, seeing how those always fit the bill. But apparently, the best way to craft soldiers, is to fool people into thinking they're simple teenage highschool girls in a post apocalyptic environment where sending them to a high school is a better thing to do than teaching them in the military base, which... you know, every military who would do such a thing would do. makes perfect sense, indeed. I tried watching coppelion, but i honestly cannot take any of these new animes serious anymore.. They introduce an awesome story concept, and what do they do? Put in cute adorable females. Its the same reason i don't plan on watching that new movie "Enders Game" A cool concept is great, until you start putting in Kids as the main cast. Then it just gets stupid. I totally agree with the OP. We need more mature characters, more mature male MC's that aren't just a progression stone for the oh so generic female cast. I have to agree here I am also kind of really sick of seein all this high-school plebs. Its not even just about girls I dont care what sex they are, but please stop throwing highschool kids into series all the time! Its supposed to be relatable, but its not and I AM in highschool (or some sort of equivalent) and I still hate it. Give me some mature characters and not just angsty bitches. Its just wrong, Highschool is like a span of 3 or 4 years in ones life, and yet they use kids that age in at least 30% of shows (more like 50% probably). If you take an age-span from 5-65( Lets say everything under is too young and above maybe too old) that makes 60 years. The highschool years (4) make only 6,6%. So if all age groups would be used the same amount of time, Highschool kids (or the age equivalent, they neednt go to highschool) should only be used in 6.6 % of anime, yet its used in at least 30% (I pulled the number out of my ass, but I am pretty sure its kinda accurate.) Thats a clear overuse, and I have to agree with the OP, altough not just regarding girls but highschool kids in general, they just throw them in everywhere. |
baki502 said: They are not aiming anime at people while they grow up, changing who they focus on each time. Most people don't watch anime like we do. People stop watching anime, while yes highschool is a 4 year span of your life, there will always be highschoolers. "That's what I love about these high school girls, man. I get older, they stay the same age. " That's why they won't ever stop being popular.I have to agree here I am also kind of really sick of seein all this high-school plebs. Its not even just about girls I dont care what sex they are, but please stop throwing highschool kids into series all the time! Its supposed to be relatable, but its not and I AM in highschool (or some sort of equivalent) and I still hate it. Give me some mature characters and not just angsty bitches. Its just wrong, Highschool is like a span of 3 or 4 years in ones life, and yet they use kids that age in at least 30% of shows (more like 50% probably). If you take an age-span from 5-65( Lets say everything under is too young and above maybe too old) that makes 60 years. The highschool years (4) make only 6,6%. So if all age groups would be used the same amount of time, Highschool kids (or the age equivalent, they neednt go to highschool) should only be used in 6.6 % of anime, yet its used in at least 30% (I pulled the number out of my ass, but I am pretty sure its kinda accurate.) Thats a clear overuse, and I have to agree with the OP, altough not just regarding girls but highschool kids in general, they just throw them in everywhere. It sounds like you need to search older anime if it's really a problem. Whining about something you think is overused online, while they are making money showing that fans don't care about it, isn't really helping anything. Besides anime isn't aimed at you. And your age thing is stupid, they don't go by year like that. It's groups. Teens, young adults, elderly, children. Not lets aim this one at 20 year olds, this one at 21, and this one at 25 year olds. And older people don't mind younger protags. One Piece is the highest selling manga of all time and it's main demographic is adults, 50 or 60 + year olds even being like 13% of who buy it. |
     Short of the day: Monotonous Purgatory(MAL) ✰Public Domain Club | One Piece Club✰ |
| Why does the age, or gender, of the characters matter as long as the show is good? Are you not going to enjoy comedy gold like Nichijou just because a majority of the characters are in high school? |
|
Rinshansan said: So by that logic we have to rate every anime R so high schoolers aren't allowed to watch anime? OH RIGHT the above guy said that HS students are necessary for anime dedicated to HS students but we have to get rid of girls too? Seems like you want the former the latter or both. #bringback90s #manime #yoloswag #dark=good Dude what? Did you even read what I said? What I said is that anime characters shouldnt be 50% of the time high schoolers. You can make an anime for all ages and have mid40s characters in the anime, that has nothing to do with R rated or such. And I never said to get rid of girls, I said replace some of the highschool characters with mid 20s,30s,40s, and even 50s or older no matter the gender. I also dont want the 90s back, cause I honestly dont have many shows from that period that I like, and I dont even know what manime is, and I never said that I only want dark shows. What i want is VARIETY and having High school kids as characters 50% of the time IS NOT VARIETY. Hopefully I expressed myself clear enough for you now. mitch3315 said: Why does the age, or gender, of the characters matter as long as the show is good? Are you not going to enjoy comedy gold like Nichijou just because a majority of the characters are in high school? I have actually dropped nichijou cause it bored me the first 2 episodes, might pick it up again tough since some scenes on YT really look glorious. But its not that I cant enjoy shows with highschool kids, I just get kind of sick of it. For me setting is very important and seein the highschool setting with highschool kids so often annoys me and bores me. Mod Edit: double post merged |
ThangLongOct 10, 2013 9:36 AM
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