| I was getting into a debate with my friend today about this, He basically thinks these types of stories are cheap and are just trying to hard to be dark without any real substance, like they are just making a excuse to be edgy. Im kinda the opposite, i think these ending add alot of suspense to the stories and makes those final moments where you wonder who will survive just that much more intense, stories like rahXephon, evangelion, FF2, Ima, Soko ni Iru Boku, the mgs series(hey it offed alot of people) FF13-2, battle royale, gantz and so on would have not been anywhere near as good if there wasnt such a high body count, i felt it really added alot of shock to the finales and really get stuck in your memory so whats your view on them? |
JizzyHitlerMar 2, 2012 6:47 PM
Immahnoob said: Jizzy, I know you have no idea how to argue for shit, tokiyashiro said: Jizzy as you would call yourself because youre a dick The most butthurt award goes to you And clearly you havent watched that many shows thats why you cant determine if a show is unique or not Or maybe you're just a child who likes common stuffs where hero saves the day and guys gets all the girls. Sad taste you have there kid you came up to me in the first place making you look more like a kid who got slapped without me even knowing it and start crying about it to me |
| Isn't your friend looking through a very narrow scope? As long as the story can carry along the progression of killing off all its characters, and as long as you're open and not judgmental towards sorrowful stories, it shouldn't matter. In fact, I find for a story to be successful in its dramaticism, it needs to kill at least a few of its important key characters. |
 |
| It depends on the type of anime. If the show is going to end/not having another season then yes, i think it's ok to kill off characters. So long as the main character survives, then anyone else that is killed off just adds to the story (like the 3rd hokage or azuma getting killed in Naruto, they were awesome, but their deaths made the story more interesting. |
 |
| I have nothing against BR as I still consider it an interesting movie (not sure about the 2nd part), anyway book's a lot better. I don't really enjoy it that much though as it seems to me that the whole plot is based on the cast dying in a rather shallow storyline. Kinda reminds me of horror/slasher genre where only the main character survives(not everytime of course). True that they are dark mostly with no real substance...take the BR for example... Simple...new law which applies to high schoolers only , once a month (or year, forgot already), government randomly chooses one class to be transported on an uninhabited island and kill each other peeps. That's all...2nd part at least has something like..defeat the opposition leader part. BUT it's good for some audience. of course Higurashi or Umineko..it is required for them to die everytime otherwise it's plot cannot move on. I say it's all about the story, not about the fact that they all die or something, if the story is good I don't care (in fact I do) who dies and who not. |
kain361Mar 2, 2012 6:54 PM
lucjan said: He can be a tad bit narrow minded at times, and i agree with what you said, i think what amde shows like rahXephon and Ima, Soko ni Iru Boku get into my favorites were because of them killing off most the cast, it really strikes a hit into your heart and just makes everything so tense, they were emotionally brutal but thats something every story should strive for, striking a emotion in the viewer, doing this really pushes the show past good to great.Isn't your friend looking through a very narrow scope? As long as the story can carry along the progression of killing off all its characters, and as long as you're open and not judgmental towards sorrowful stories, it shouldn't matter. In fact, I find for a story to be successful in its dramaticism, it needs to kill at least a few of its important key characters. but i do hate it if something just kills everyone randomly, thankfully ive never seen one that just offs everyone to off them |
Immahnoob said: Jizzy, I know you have no idea how to argue for shit, tokiyashiro said: Jizzy as you would call yourself because youre a dick The most butthurt award goes to you And clearly you havent watched that many shows thats why you cant determine if a show is unique or not Or maybe you're just a child who likes common stuffs where hero saves the day and guys gets all the girls. Sad taste you have there kid you came up to me in the first place making you look more like a kid who got slapped without me even knowing it and start crying about it to me |
kain361 said: fuck the battle royale movie, that thing was horrible, the manga was the only good adaption of BR, even the original book is incredibly mediocreI have nothing against BR as I still consider it an interesting movie (not sure about the 2nd part), |
Immahnoob said: Jizzy, I know you have no idea how to argue for shit, tokiyashiro said: Jizzy as you would call yourself because youre a dick The most butthurt award goes to you And clearly you havent watched that many shows thats why you cant determine if a show is unique or not Or maybe you're just a child who likes common stuffs where hero saves the day and guys gets all the girls. Sad taste you have there kid you came up to me in the first place making you look more like a kid who got slapped without me even knowing it and start crying about it to me |
| In reality, some people actually can be the only survivors from a tragedy. I don't know why your friend consider it as something cheap. There are real stories where some people survived among the casualties and I think it is only the matter of perspective. If we look at certain groups of people and few survived from a tragedy, you will get that story. |
DJIzzyIzzyHitler said: kain361 said: fuck the battle royale movie, that thing was horrible, the manga was the only good adaption of BR, even the original book is incredibly mediocreI have nothing against BR as I still consider it an interesting movie (not sure about the 2nd part), I never said I like it though;) |
Innoxious said: hes looking at it from a writing perspective not realistically, I think hes trying to say that its just the writer making a cheap attempt to get an emotion out of the viewer without any actual effort put into it. I think hes trying to say killing off a character is the easy way outIn reality, some people actually can be the only survivors from a tragedy. I don't know why your friend consider it as something cheap. There are real stories where some people survived among the casualties and I think it is only the matter of perspective. If we look at certain groups of people and few survived from a tragedy, you will get that story. |
Immahnoob said: Jizzy, I know you have no idea how to argue for shit, tokiyashiro said: Jizzy as you would call yourself because youre a dick The most butthurt award goes to you And clearly you havent watched that many shows thats why you cant determine if a show is unique or not Or maybe you're just a child who likes common stuffs where hero saves the day and guys gets all the girls. Sad taste you have there kid you came up to me in the first place making you look more like a kid who got slapped without me even knowing it and start crying about it to me |
kain361 said: good that movie was a joke, like what was with that scene at the end where they shot the director like 30 times and the phone rings so he just gets up after being gunned down to answer it THEN dies, like i know BR isnt realistic but WTFDJIzzyIzzyHitler said: kain361 said: fuck the battle royale movie, that thing was horrible, the manga was the only good adaption of BR, even the original book is incredibly mediocreI have nothing against BR as I still consider it an interesting movie (not sure about the 2nd part), I never said I like it though;) |
Immahnoob said: Jizzy, I know you have no idea how to argue for shit, tokiyashiro said: Jizzy as you would call yourself because youre a dick The most butthurt award goes to you And clearly you havent watched that many shows thats why you cant determine if a show is unique or not Or maybe you're just a child who likes common stuffs where hero saves the day and guys gets all the girls. Sad taste you have there kid you came up to me in the first place making you look more like a kid who got slapped without me even knowing it and start crying about it to me |
DJIzzyIzzyHitler said: kain361 said: good that movie was a joke, like what was with that scene at the end where they shot the director like 30 times and the phone rings so he just gets up after being gunned down to answer it THEN dies, like i know BR isnt realistic but WTFDJIzzyIzzyHitler said: kain361 said: fuck the battle royale movie, that thing was horrible, the manga was the only good adaption of BR, even the original book is incredibly mediocreI have nothing against BR as I still consider it an interesting movie (not sure about the 2nd part), I never said I like it though;) BR is a slasher movie there's no need for logic in that genre (as it even isn't used mostly) all that matters are peeps to kill off and tanks of blood. |
| Hell, does anyone know how many characters Koji Suzuki killed throughout the Ring series? It finally hits you at the end of each book; how significant these characters were to you, and how dramatic their deaths are. If Suzuki hadn't killed anyone, the Ring series would have just been a really good mystery series, but the deaths of some of these characters really help drive you to the next novel and characterize the personalities each character held, as their deaths weren't exactly random. Roundhouse kick your friend in the face, Dizzy. Btw, the books are NOTHING like the movie(s), so please don't think of me as shallow :( |
|
DJIzzyIzzyHitler said: kain361 said: fuck the battle royale movie, that thing was horrible, the manga was the only good adaption of BR, even the original book is incredibly mediocreI have nothing against BR as I still consider it an interesting movie (not sure about the 2nd part), Off-topic: "Horrible" is a little bit extreme. It's style over substance and has some flaws, but it's far from horrible. (And the novel is considerably better than The Hunger Games, but that's even more off-topic.) On-topic: Battle Royale's high body count is necessary, as it simply follows a framework built by the story itself -- everyone but one must die. You could argue that two people surviving is already a copout, but three or more people surviving would've been even more of one. |
DJIzzyIzzyHitler said: Innoxious said: hes looking at it from a writing perspective not realistically, I think hes trying to say that its just the writer making a cheap attempt to get an emotion out of the viewer without any actual effort put into it. I think hes trying to say killing off a character is the easy way outIn reality, some people actually can be the only survivors from a tragedy. I don't know why your friend consider it as something cheap. There are real stories where some people survived among the casualties and I think it is only the matter of perspective. If we look at certain groups of people and few survived from a tragedy, you will get that story. I think it depends on the "cause" and "effect" of the characters' death. If the death actually contribute to the plot development, it should be good enough. If the character died without reasonable "cause" and "effect", I don't think the viewers will get emotionally attached to the character and understand the importance of the death to the story. |
Hakuromatsu said: DJIzzyIzzyHitler said: kain361 said: fuck the battle royale movie, that thing was horrible, the manga was the only good adaption of BR, even the original book is incredibly mediocreI have nothing against BR as I still consider it an interesting movie (not sure about the 2nd part), Off-topic: "Horrible" is a little bit extreme. It's style over substance and has some flaws, but it's far from horrible. (And the novel is considerably better than The Hunger Games, but that's even more off-topic.) On-topic: Battle Royale's high body count is necessary, as it simply follows a framework built by the story itself -- everyone but one must die. You could argue that two people surviving is already a copout, but three or more people surviving would've been even more of one. yes at least one of them had to cos it was Tatsuya Fujiwara starring:) Did read Hunger Games as well although I think I saw similar plots in few movies or books before Hunger Games. |
Hakuromatsu said: i saw it directly after i finished reading the manga, and all i could think about was "what the hell did they do?" its horrible to me because of how rushed it was, this is a problem i have with alot of movies, cramming a long source material into a hour and a half does not workDJIzzyIzzyHitler said: kain361 said: fuck the battle royale movie, that thing was horrible, the manga was the only good adaption of BR, even the original book is incredibly mediocreI have nothing against BR as I still consider it an interesting movie (not sure about the 2nd part), Off-topic: "Horrible" is a little bit extreme. It's style over substance and has some flaws, but it's far from horrible. (And the novel is considerably better than The Hunger Games, but that's even more off-topic.) |
Immahnoob said: Jizzy, I know you have no idea how to argue for shit, tokiyashiro said: Jizzy as you would call yourself because youre a dick The most butthurt award goes to you And clearly you havent watched that many shows thats why you cant determine if a show is unique or not Or maybe you're just a child who likes common stuffs where hero saves the day and guys gets all the girls. Sad taste you have there kid you came up to me in the first place making you look more like a kid who got slapped without me even knowing it and start crying about it to me |
kain361 said: Did read Hunger Games as well although I think I saw similar plots in few movies or books already before. Oh, I should clarify, I'm not one of those people who thinks Suzanne Collins ripped the story of THG from Battle Royale. It's clear that she'd never even read it -- there are similarities, but they're coincidental. |
Innoxious said: I agree, thats what i loved about now and then here and there, each death had humongous effects even though people didnt start dyeing till the last 2 or so episodes but they still showed how drastic these had on the characters.....ok now im getting all nostolgic over how good this show was, this is proof to me that shows that do this really can leave a impression on you like no otherDJIzzyIzzyHitler said: Innoxious said: hes looking at it from a writing perspective not realistically, I think hes trying to say that its just the writer making a cheap attempt to get an emotion out of the viewer without any actual effort put into it. I think hes trying to say killing off a character is the easy way outIn reality, some people actually can be the only survivors from a tragedy. I don't know why your friend consider it as something cheap. There are real stories where some people survived among the casualties and I think it is only the matter of perspective. If we look at certain groups of people and few survived from a tragedy, you will get that story. I think it depends on the "cause" and "effect" of the characters' death. If the death actually contribute to the plot development, it should be good enough. If the character died without reasonable "cause" and "effect", I don't think the viewers will get emotionally attached to the character and understand the importance of the death to the story. |
Immahnoob said: Jizzy, I know you have no idea how to argue for shit, tokiyashiro said: Jizzy as you would call yourself because youre a dick The most butthurt award goes to you And clearly you havent watched that many shows thats why you cant determine if a show is unique or not Or maybe you're just a child who likes common stuffs where hero saves the day and guys gets all the girls. Sad taste you have there kid you came up to me in the first place making you look more like a kid who got slapped without me even knowing it and start crying about it to me |
Hakuromatsu said: kain361 said: Did read Hunger Games as well although I think I saw similar plots in few movies or books already before. Oh, I should clarify, I'm not one of those people who thinks Suzanne Collins ripped the story of THG from Battle Royale. It's clear that she'd never even read it -- there are similarities, but they're coincidental. true but it became a cliche already:) it's not really just about BR and Hunger Games...(Logan's Run for example) If the story requires a certain character to die so be it..if the viewer developed some sympathy to given character..well it's not really writer's problem is it? |
| Battle Royale ftw! |
| I like them. |
| Depending on how the cast dies, it can go either way for me. |
| saw series? not a fan of that gore-fest rubbish. but it follows the same principles. It adds to the general atmosphere it's establishing, which can be death, etc. |
| Recently saw an anime series about that, good lord how depressing. |
 Steam: Zeemanhuismerk |
| If it's done well, I don't really have any issues. |
| It depends on how good the series is. The series killing a large portion its characters doesn't automatically make it good or bad. |
| I often respect it when writer has the balls to kill my favorite characters. |
| I definitely have superpowers. I can feel it in my balls. |
DJIzzyIzzyHitler said: He basically thinks these types of stories are cheap and are just trying to hard to be dark without any real substance, like they are just making a excuse to be edgy. Stories, not just series? You can refute the argument with one word: Hamlet. Actually most Shakespeare tragedies. In fact, killing off most of the main characters is pretty much a staple of classical tragedies so it wasn't a novelty in Elizabethan times either. |
| If many anime characters die it means that the series is violent/tragic... If it is the case, it is normal that the cast dies . On the other hand, it would be illogical if many people died (citizens,secondary characters...) but the cast did not. So, I prefer anime where the cast dies... |
| As long as it's not like, say, Victory Gundam or Code Geass, where characters are introduced to get some minutes of screen time before dying. If it's a series with armed conflict and lots of violence, it's really silly if no one dies, the trick is to make important characters die when you least expect it (Though in a realistic way) but still manage to continue the story. |
| I depends on why they were killed and how much it adds to the story. |
| My apologies, children, for I am afraid I cannot save you all. |
| Depends on the stroy =) Higurashi no naku koro ni |
 "I like to expose what people hide. I'm an intellectual rapist." - Furudo Erika |
| I like stories that kill of the characters because then there is no chance for a continuation or sequels, and almost all of the fan fiction is killed off too. So its a win win for me personally. I hate it when the story feels like it could go on because everyone is living. (I'm looking at you Harry Potter) |
| Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines. |
| Blue Gender |
| cool story bro |
nathanr said: cool story bro  |
Immahnoob said: Jizzy, I know you have no idea how to argue for shit, tokiyashiro said: Jizzy as you would call yourself because youre a dick The most butthurt award goes to you And clearly you havent watched that many shows thats why you cant determine if a show is unique or not Or maybe you're just a child who likes common stuffs where hero saves the day and guys gets all the girls. Sad taste you have there kid you came up to me in the first place making you look more like a kid who got slapped without me even knowing it and start crying about it to me |
| ah.. the first thing i thought of was homestuck because most of the main characters are dead but really, if its done well, and not just kind of like "lets kill a significant character for literally no reason because i cant think of any other way to make this exciting" then i dont think it matters (unless its one of my favourite characters.... . .. .) |
DJIzzyIzzyHitler said: nathanr said: cool story bro <img src="http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/233/898/90b.jpg" /> no no no you don't get it these stories are really cool |
nathanr said: well i was just using you as an excuse to post that picture anyhow so whatevsDJIzzyIzzyHitler said: nathanr said: cool story bro <img src="http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/233/898/90b.jpg" /> no no no you don't get it these stories are really cool |
Immahnoob said: Jizzy, I know you have no idea how to argue for shit, tokiyashiro said: Jizzy as you would call yourself because youre a dick The most butthurt award goes to you And clearly you havent watched that many shows thats why you cant determine if a show is unique or not Or maybe you're just a child who likes common stuffs where hero saves the day and guys gets all the girls. Sad taste you have there kid you came up to me in the first place making you look more like a kid who got slapped without me even knowing it and start crying about it to me |
DJIzzyIzzyHitler said: I was getting into a debate with my friend today about this, He basically thinks these types of stories are cheap and are just trying to hard to be dark without any real substance, like they are just making a excuse to be edgy. Im kinda the opposite, i think these ending add alot of suspense to the stories and makes those final moments where you wonder who will survive just that much more intense, stories like rahXephon, evangelion, FF2, Ima, Soko ni Iru Boku, the mgs series(hey it offed alot of people) FF13-2, battle royale, gantz and so on would have not been anywhere near as good if there wasnt such a high body count, i felt it really added alot of shock to the finales and really get stuck in your memory so whats your view on them? I hate the kind of anime where all or most of the cast is killed off. It just makes me feel like I wasted my time watching it. It feels like you are watching one those home rebuilding shows and right as they are almost finished they just say fuck it and demolish the house.Like they strung you along, got you interested and then smashed it. My thoughts on RahXephon |
ezikialrage said: DJIzzyIzzyHitler said: I was getting into a debate with my friend today about this, He basically thinks these types of stories are cheap and are just trying to hard to be dark without any real substance, like they are just making a excuse to be edgy. Im kinda the opposite, i think these ending add alot of suspense to the stories and makes those final moments where you wonder who will survive just that much more intense, stories like rahXephon, evangelion, FF2, Ima, Soko ni Iru Boku, the mgs series(hey it offed alot of people) FF13-2, battle royale, gantz and so on would have not been anywhere near as good if there wasnt such a high body count, i felt it really added alot of shock to the finales and really get stuck in your memory so whats your view on them? I hate the kind of anime where all or most of the cast is killed off. It just makes me feel like I wasted my time watching it. It feels like you are watching one those home rebuilding shows and right as they are almost finished they just say fuck it and demolish the house.Like they strung you along, got you interested and then smashed it. My thoughts on RahXephon also saikano's ending was just awful, thats proof to me that shows need o have some sort of positive thing in the end or you just feel like you wasted your time with it, its just like |
JizzyHitlerMar 3, 2012 11:53 AM
Immahnoob said: Jizzy, I know you have no idea how to argue for shit, tokiyashiro said: Jizzy as you would call yourself because youre a dick The most butthurt award goes to you And clearly you havent watched that many shows thats why you cant determine if a show is unique or not Or maybe you're just a child who likes common stuffs where hero saves the day and guys gets all the girls. Sad taste you have there kid you came up to me in the first place making you look more like a kid who got slapped without me even knowing it and start crying about it to me |
DJIzzyIzzyHitler said: Doesn't need any positive ending if it's a tragedy though...also saikano's ending was just awful, thats proof to me that shows need o have some sort of positive thing in the end or you just feel like you wasted your time with it, its just like |
Baman said: DJIzzyIzzyHitler said: Doesn't need any positive ending if it's a tragedy though...also saikano's ending was just awful, thats proof to me that shows need o have some sort of positive thing in the end or you just feel like you wasted your time with it, its just like dude |
Baman said: even tragedies have positive things come out of it, even if they are small things they are still there, like romeo and juliet for example, yah they are dead along with a few others but now the families have put their fighting to rest, its stuff like that, that im talking about.DJIzzyIzzyHitler said: Doesn't need any positive ending if it's a tragedy though...also saikano's ending was just awful, thats proof to me that shows need o have some sort of positive thing in the end or you just feel like you wasted your time with it, its just like yes in the end its still a tragedy but no matter how bad something is there is always a positive thing to come out of it, even stuff as horrible as the holocaust or slavery have created positive things cause they taught later generations that it was wrong and cruel and to never do it again(in most countries) And even then if you watch saikano, the point of tragedy stories are to get an emotion out of its viewers and really make them sad, saikano's ending just pisses you off, you dont feel sad you just feel like you wasted your time, it was just horrible writing. look at another tragedy called Ima, Soko ni Iru Boku/ now and then here and there, it manages to be depressing as all hell, tragic beyond relief, and the entire last 2 episode will probably break the viewer but even though all this depressing crap is happening in the end there is still that little bit of hope that it gives the viewer for the future that hint at a eventual happy time coming, yah pretty much every character is dead and theres only more hardships in the future but it gives you the sense of a passing storm that will eventually end in sunshine even if we as viewers dont get to see it, thats how a tragedy was done right, it managed to be emotionally brutal but still invoke at least the smallest amount of hope in the viewer and when you really think about it, shows like saikano that dont even have remotely anything happy in the ending basically are giving you the message "no matter how hard you try or work at anything you will fail and nothing good will ever come out of it, everyone deaths are in vain" the end. |
JizzyHitlerMar 3, 2012 2:21 PM
Immahnoob said: Jizzy, I know you have no idea how to argue for shit, tokiyashiro said: Jizzy as you would call yourself because youre a dick The most butthurt award goes to you And clearly you havent watched that many shows thats why you cant determine if a show is unique or not Or maybe you're just a child who likes common stuffs where hero saves the day and guys gets all the girls. Sad taste you have there kid you came up to me in the first place making you look more like a kid who got slapped without me even knowing it and start crying about it to me |
Baman said: As long as it's not like, say, Victory Gundam or Code Geass, where characters are introduced to get some minutes of screen time before dying. If it's a series with armed conflict and lots of violence, it's really silly if no one dies, the trick is to make important characters die when you least expect it (Though in a realistic way) but still manage to continue the story. You put it much better than I was going to. Like Battle Royale and Logh for example. Buuuut I hate it when they do it because they know they can and just want to try so hard to provoke your emotions. |
GloriousHawk said: i think thats what my friend was trying to say they all do. Buuuut I hate it when they do it because they know they can and just want to try so hard to provoke your emotions. continuation of my last post, this is exactly was saikano does, that ending was awful, going in my top 5 worst right next to kurokami's joke of an ending |
Immahnoob said: Jizzy, I know you have no idea how to argue for shit, tokiyashiro said: Jizzy as you would call yourself because youre a dick The most butthurt award goes to you And clearly you havent watched that many shows thats why you cant determine if a show is unique or not Or maybe you're just a child who likes common stuffs where hero saves the day and guys gets all the girls. Sad taste you have there kid you came up to me in the first place making you look more like a kid who got slapped without me even knowing it and start crying about it to me |
DJIzzyIzzyHitler said: GloriousHawk said: i think thats what my friend was trying to say they all do. Buuuut I hate it when they do it because they know they can and just want to try so hard to provoke your emotions. continuation of my last post, this is exactly was saikano does, that ending was awful, going in my top 5 worst right next to kurokami's joke of an ending Your signature says you got an erection and everyone was killed. THAT'D be more acceptable. |
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