Fate/Zero Episode 2 Discussion

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Jul 2007

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oh for gods sake not again...

10+ pages of thought lost.

Oct 10, 2011 11:50 AM

Bolt_

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Nov 2009

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look at the possitive side... now fate zero 2 is 100% excellent and 100% of the people loved it lol

Oct 10, 2011 12:02 PM

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Aug 2011

i found this in another forum

Oct 10, 2011 12:26 PM

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Jul 2007

23708

Yes, we talked about that in previous therad already.

The fortress Hassan is looking at in the picture is Alamut

At least the Saber's scene was already adapted in the extra material of FSN VN from the very same source material

Oct 10, 2011 12:28 PM

enkfayeh

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Sep 2008

181

rollback again ? damn.

Anyway nice episode again.

5/5

Oct 10, 2011 1:01 PM

coolwolf

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Sep 2010

244

Hmm.. Hassan died(?) quickly this time...
Also, didn't he become ******'s servant (in HF at least)?

Sorry somehow spoiler isn't working - and my message switches to html if I edit it.... Is there something wrong with the forum bbcode? Anyone else have the same problem?

Yumekichi11 said:

Fuck Rider! His real name Alexander The Great! Here is stats and I know you read some of it:
http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb480/Yumekichi11/Picture%2010/3922a8b5.jpg

Hmm.. pretty nice stats. Maybe almost as good as Gilgamesh if you add them up.

Oct 10, 2011 1:52 PM

Aurao

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I so hope Assassin was using a puppet.

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Oct 10, 2011 1:56 PM

#10

InKensify

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Little Illya was cute

Oct 10, 2011 1:57 PM

#11

Yumekichi11

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Aurao said:
I so hope Assassin was using a puppet.

I am thinking that as well or an illusion that is realistic.

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Oct 10, 2011 9:24 PM

#12

LostHanyou

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Nov 2009

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It's ok Assassin... Gilgamesh was just jealous of your dancing skills.

Oct 10, 2011 9:56 PM

#13

Rusette

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LostHanyou said:

It's ok Assassin... Gilgamesh was just jealous of your dancing skills.

Lmao. Yes. Its pure jealousy. XD

Oct 10, 2011 11:45 PM

#14

Barye

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Sep 2011

LostHanyou said:

It's ok Assassin... Gilgamesh was just jealous of your dancing skills.

True that.

Oct 11, 2011 12:45 AM

#15

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Tsk, bbcode not working properly. To answer coolwoolf's query, Assassin was indeed summoned by said person in HF but it's because of the way the Assassin class works. Basically, Assassins can't be heroes because an Assassin good enough to be classified at the same level as half-gods and other such heroes would not even have been caught. As such, the hero "Hassan-i-Sabbah" is merely the heroic embodiment of the leader of the Assassin cult that popularized the name "Assassin". So no Assassin is the same yet at the same time they all are the same.

But it's all a moot point in the end. SUmmoned Heroic Spirits are merely fresh copies of the deceased hero and are soon discarded after they are killed. The actual hero remains at the Throne of Heroes.

Oct 11, 2011 1:10 AM

#16

pieceofshota

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Jun 2010

359

If assasin's dead that's the most stupid thing u could do. I like this character unlike that annoying lookign assasin before. This one looks more of a assasin and do need more action with this badass creepy character.

Killing shota boy was too harsh. =[ Caster always suck so caster has 0 percent of winning anyways.

Even with no soul, he was so cute. Why /...

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Oct 11, 2011 3:37 AM

#17

kaimax

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Leon-Gun said:
As such, the hero "Hassan-i-Sabbah" is merely the heroic embodiment of the leader of the Assassin cult that popularized the name "Assassin". So no Assassin is the same yet at the same time they all are the same. .

Doesn't apply in spin-offs though, specifically Fate/Extra and the cancelled online game Fate/Apocryhpa

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Oct 11, 2011 4:10 AM

#18

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kaimax said:

Leon-Gun said: As such, the hero "Hassan-i-Sabbah" is merely the heroic embodiment of the leader of the Assassin cult that popularized the name "Assassin". So no Assassin is the same yet at the same time they all are the same.

Doesn't apply in spin-offs though, specifically Fate/Extra and the cancelled online game Fate/Apocryhpa

Well yeah, although you could say spin-offs are where all the outlandish material ends up in so those we have to consider to be very very loosely related and with almost no weight in deep discussion of the main Fate series. Especially true in things that seemingly contradict the main series.

Oct 11, 2011 5:32 AM

#19

PseudoJord

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Sep 2009

848

They touched my Fate/Zero threads. Why? ;n;

Anyhow, very nice follow up to the first episode. First we learned about the masters, and now the servants get some spotlight. Caster's scene was particularly chilling; the first time I was actually jolted by an anime in a long while.

The ED was great as well. The song and the images synced up nicely, and I loved how the pictures were tribute to art in history as well.

Oct 11, 2011 7:22 AM

#20

holypoop

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Jan 2010

1371

The scene with the serial killer was awesome. God, I'm getting so hyped for so many shows this season.

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Oct 11, 2011 9:37 AM

#21

Kupopopo

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LostHanyou said:

It's ok Assassin... Gilgamesh was just jealous of your dancing skills.

OH GOD. I DIED. XD

Jeezus, Caster/Bluebeard was brutal!

Oct 11, 2011 10:33 AM

#22

Sigsig

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Jul 2010

221

Leon-Gun said:
Tsk, bbcode not working properly. To answer coolwoolf's query, Assassin was indeed summoned by said person in HF but it's because of the way the Assassin class works. Basically, Assassins can't be heroes because an Assassin good enough to be classified at the same level as half-gods and other such heroes would not even have been caught. As such, the hero "Hassan-i-Sabbah" is merely the heroic embodiment of the leader of the Assassin cult that popularized the name "Assassin". So no Assassin is the same yet at the same time they all are the same.
But it's all a moot point in the end. SUmmoned Heroic Spirits are merely fresh copies of the deceased hero and are soon discarded after they are killed. The actual hero remains at the Throne of Heroes.

thanks for spoiling :(

オタクなんじゃねぃよ
I'm not an otaku.

Oct 11, 2011 10:33 AM

#23

FluffyDango

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Apr 2008

2146

Caster and his MAster is so sick :P

The guy Gilgamesh pierced his swords through can`t already be dead? :P

Oct 11, 2011 11:47 AM

#24

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Sigsig said:

thanks for spoiling :(

thats not a spoiler. it Will NEVER be explained in f/zero :)

Oct 11, 2011 11:51 AM

#25

wakka9ca

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Nov 2007

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Leon-Gun said:
Well yeah, although you could say spin-offs are where all the outlandish material ends up in so those we have to consider to be very very loosely related and with almost no weight in deep discussion of the main Fate series. Especially true in things that seemingly contradict the main series.

Essentially, people have to be aware of the different levels of canon in Type-Moon and Nasuverse.

bla bla bla

The endless debate between fans and haters. At one point, after spending a lot of time on MAL, you just realize it's totally pointless.

Niko-kun said:
On MAL, everyone who has used the lame rating system becomes a critic and an intellectual by default, haven't you heard?

Oct 11, 2011 12:23 PM

#26

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Aug 2011

"SUmmoned Heroic Spirits are merely fresh copies of the deceased hero and are soon discarded after they are killed. The actual hero remains at the Throne of Heroes."

FAI, in the beggining ,Rin explain that the heroic spirits are summoned by the grail. While the Grail can't actually revive the hero , it uses "vessels" to materialize them, which are the classes...

unless this will be discarted in later explanations, i think the heroes are not just copies.

Yes, their's spirits were in the throne of heroes, but once they are summoned, they actually come to fight. If they die, the spirit come back to the throne.

they don't necessary die.

Oct 11, 2011 12:30 PM

#27

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Gamaliel said:
"SUmmoned Heroic Spirits are merely fresh copies of the deceased hero and are soon discarded after they are killed. The actual hero remains at the Throne of Heroes."
FAI, in the beggining ,Rin explain that the heroic spirits are summoned by the grail. While the Grail can't actually revive the hero , it uses "vessels" to materialize them, which are the classes...
unless this will be discarted in later explanations, i think the heroes are not just copies.
Yes, their's spirits were in the throne of heroes, but once they are summoned, they actually come to fight. If they die, the spirit come back to the throne.
they don't necessary die.

Erm. No. They materialize the copies of them. Thats pretty much the reason why they don't remember previous wars. There are only TWO spirits who actually get materialized as they are and not copied. The "records" in the throne are templates for summons so to say.

Oct 11, 2011 12:41 PM

#28

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Aug 2011

I still want to know where did you get this information, because im playing the VN of fate stay/ night and for now, no one mention that they are copies.

in which part of the VN they explain this? like i said, i got that explanation from the beggining, in the prologue of the game.

Oct 11, 2011 1:02 PM

#29

z4yd

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Apr 2011

550

My hobby is murder. Murder and stabbing.

lolol how awesome.

Oct 11, 2011 1:04 PM

#30

Richard92

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Feb 2010

Is it wrong that I enjoyed and actually liked the part where caster kills that boy? Like I genuinely thought it was fucking awesome. The way its portrayed and the way caster explained hope to fear was amazing. I think there's something wrong with me... I hope not >.<.

Oct 11, 2011 1:24 PM

#31

moedea

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Nov 2007

704

- Who are you?
- Um, Uryuu Ryuunosuke... Currently unemployed. My hobby is murder. Murder, and stabbing. I like kids and young women.
- Oh, 'kay.

I lol'd.

Oct 11, 2011 3:59 PM

#32

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Gamaliel said:I still want to know where did you get this information, because im playing the VN of fate stay/ night and for now, no one mention that they are copies.
in which part of the VN they explain this? like i said, i got that explanation from the beggining, in the prologue of the game.

When you learn Saber's identity you get a full explanation of how summoning Servants work and Rin finally outright tells you that Servants just get discarded "somewhere" after they are done. The Throne of Heroes and the Akashic Records are what holds all the memories and data of the Heroic Spirits. You don't summon heroes, you summon a copy of the hero into a preconstructed vessel. It's not even a full copy, it's a copy constricted into a class (which limits it's ability somewhat in accordance with the power of the summoner). The Grail doesn't have the power to summon 7 Fully powereed Heroic SPirits (nor are there enough magi to sustain and command such a powerfull force)
UBW will expand on this subject when you learn of Heroic Spirits in general and HF finishes this with the last details on Servants and answers what the hell actually happens to the "discarded" defeated Servants. If you've only played the Fate route you're not even scratching the surface of Fate/Stay Night.
BTW, I remember who one of them are but, who's the other one again Fai?

Oct 11, 2011 4:07 PM

#33

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Leon-Gun said:

BTW, I remember who one of them are but, who's the other one again Fai?

\\

One is directly summoned, sort of and not from throne due to the nature of that person's "condition" and the fact that that person is not technically a fullblown heroic spriit yet its all up to choice(god damnit spoiler tags not working SUCKS)

Other while is still copied form throne, due to I forgot what, is able to remember everything the previous copies experienced.

Oct 11, 2011 4:45 PM

#34

Nekkoro

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Jul 2010

Pretty awesome episode (^_^) Ilya-chan was very kawaii! >< It's sad that there are only 13 episodes, but I can't really say anything about that since I haven't played the VN :( Anyways, can't wait for the next ep and to see more of the other servants (^_^)

Oct 11, 2011 6:16 PM

#35

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Aug 2011

thank you both for the info. But if that's the case, then Fate Stay/night it's worse than i thought. Or maybe Fate /zero has a differente touch.
my point is, in fate/ Zero, the servants looks really alive, there's not even a sign that they are copies. That's because the focus of the story is in their lives, and not just about the masters. When you say that they are just copies, you just ruin all that makes the story an amazing thing.
But, with fate stay/night , with NO character development, at least when we are talking about the servants, yes, they really look like copies. i would never doubt that. i will not point why i think the servants in fate zero looks like the real heroes of their times, because if you both read the book ,you know what i mean
I think , one of the reasons is because it was write by different autors with focus in different aspects of the story .
in my opinion, Gen Urobuchi take a history that many people found it pleasent , and made it better. Gen shows the war, and all the suffering that comes with it. like many people said here, the story is more adult than the original series.
Here in zero, they try to make a connection with the public and the servants, showing their past and their reason to fight. Just look to the ending of the anime, the public have the impression that what we see is the past of the REAL servants, i don't think they will say sometime "ah, they are just copies you know?"

GamalielOct 11, 2011 6:25 PM

Oct 11, 2011 6:47 PM

#36

lilly_938

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May 2009

Aww. Ilya was soo cute! but why doesn't she call Kiritsugu "dad"?

Oct 11, 2011 7:03 PM

#37

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Gamaliel said:
thank you both for the info. But if that's the case, then Fate Stay/night it's worse than i thought. Or maybe Fate /zero has a differente touch.
my point is, in fate/ Zero, the servants looks really alive, there's not even a sign that they are copies. That's because the focus of the story is in their lives, and not just about the masters. When you say that they are just copies, you just ruin all that makes the story an amazing thing.
But, with fate stay/night , with NO character development, at least when we are talking about the servants, yes, they really look like copies. i would never doubt that. i will not point why i think the servants in fate zero looks like the real heroes of their times, because if you both read the book ,you know what i mean
I think , one of the reasons is because it was write by different autors with focus in different aspects of the story .
in my opinion, Gen Urobuchi take a history that many people found it pleasent , and made it better. Gen shows the war, and all the suffering that comes with it. like many people said here, the story is more adult than the original series.
Here in zero, they try to make a connection with the public and the servants, showing their past and their reason to fight. Just look to the ending of the anime, the public have the impression that what we see is the past of the REAL servants, i don't think they will say sometime "ah, they are just copies you know?"

There's some good points there but also a little misguided. Maybe you're getting stuck on the copy part and can't move on to the fact that even if they're a copy, they have the will of the Heroic Spirit itself. His charisma, skills, way of thinking and goals are still the same.

Also, it's also important to mention, they aren't copies because the Grail can't summon their real self, they are copies because the World seeks order. To be a symbol of power and adoration the Heroic Spirit is preserved intact and as such Heroic Spirits are pretty much bound to the Throne of Heroes to stop it from being tainted with alterations. All that ever leaves are temporary vessels which vanish in the end along with any alterations and new memories. If that somehow lessens the excitement for you then I guess that's fine.

Oct 11, 2011 7:17 PM

#38

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Leon-Gun said:

There's some good points there but also a little misguided. Maybe you're getting stuck on the copy part and can't move on to the fact that even if they're a copy, they have the will of the Heroic Spirit itself. His charisma, skills, way of thinking and goals are still the same.
Also, it's also important to mention, they aren't copies because the Grail can't summon their real self, they are copies because the World seeks order. To be a symbol of power and adoration the Heroic Spirit is preserved intact and as such Heroic Spirits are pretty much bound to the Throne of Heroes to stop it from being tainted with alterations. All that ever leaves are temporary vessels which vanish in the end along with any alterations and new memories. If that somehow lessens the excitement for you then I guess that's fine.

yeah, maybe you are right, maybe when i think that the souls of the heroes don't leave the throne of heroes, i see the servants as soulless. And maybe that's the reason why i can't see them as copies. the story makes sense in the way you put it, even so, it's not something that i expected. For me the story loses some of the glory

Oct 11, 2011 9:24 PM

#39

Barion-Zara

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Aug 2010

10990

Man, it seems like I'm gonna become a lolicon from F/Z first Rin, and now Illya, how cute can they get!

Oct 11, 2011 10:43 PM

#40

Rezurrekt

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Dec 2010

2680

Holy shit what's not to love about this anime? Cute loli girls, Hot MILFs, Crazy ass animation and graphics, awesome characters, amazing action - the list goes on.

That scene where Caster killed the boy... that sent chills down my body. Despite how terrible it was for the boy, the way they animated it was amazing.

Assasin dodging those magic barrier things was cool too. Welcome to 2011 where CGI makes shit crazy. Again, amazingly well animated, especially when Gilgamesh killed Assasin. I hope it was a puppet like most have said because if he dies second episode, that would be a complete let down. I'm pretty sure he's alive though since his Master is very important.

Oct 11, 2011 11:33 PM

#41

Ston3_FreeN7

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Jun 2009

15302

Great episode yet again. Caster and Ryosuke are intriguing and that scene was...shocking. I kind of expected it, but to actually see it happen threw me for a loop. Going by a certain piece of info in the F/SN vn I think Assassin is dead. But, then again, I'm confused by how he shows up in F/SN then...
I hope to god this series keeps up this excellence. This has the makings to be the best series I've seen since Revolutionary Girl Utena. The dialogue and writing is astounding so far and the animation is godly.

"Yes, I have been deprived of emotion. But not completely. Whoever did it, botched the job."

- Geralt of Rivia

Oct 12, 2011 2:01 AM

#42

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insan3soldiern said:Great episode yet again. Caster and Ryosuke are intriguing and that scene was...shocking. I kind of expected it, but to actually see it happen threw me for a loop. Going by a certain piece of info in the F/SN vn I think Assassin is dead. But, then again, I'm confused by how he shows up in F/SN then...
I hope to god this series keeps up this excellence. This has the makings to be the best series I've seen since Revolutionary Girl Utena. The dialogue and writing is astounding so far and the animation is godly.

You're probably going by Kotomine's words right. Anyway, don't get confused here, you can summon the same Heroic Spirit again (just not with the same memories, Saber aside). Also there's some particular rules of Servants in the Holy Grail War that, for example, limit who Assassin can be.

Leon-GunOct 12, 2011 2:06 AM

Oct 12, 2011 2:29 AM

#43

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23708

Leon-Gun said:
Also there's some particular rules of Servants in the Holy Grail War that, for example, limit who Assassin can be.

To be exact, there's only one assassin in throne of heroes, technically :)

AhenshihaelOct 12, 2011 3:22 AM

Oct 12, 2011 3:01 AM

#44

hussien-11

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Nov 2009

165

WOW WOW WOW Y___Y

I reeeeeeeeally loved this amazing episode .. Rider was amazing and much better than FSN's one !

Fate/Zero is going to be my favorite anime for this year .. I know that for sure .

Oct 12, 2011 3:23 AM

#45

Aegiz

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Oct 2011

Good episode. I'm not a Gil fan but DAMN! in that pose what a sexy beast and i'm an archer fan. That just prove that Archer classes are the sexy beast of holy grail wars.

AegizOct 12, 2011 3:39 AM

Oct 12, 2011 3:57 AM

#46

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Dec 2007

4845

hussien-11 said:
WOW WOW WOW Y___Y
I reeeeeeeeally loved this amazing episode .. Rider was amazing and much better than FSN's one !
Fate/Zero is going to be my favorite anime for this year .. I know that for sure .

I know Alexander is quite the bro and all but F/SN's Rider (whose name I'll not spoil for all the VN virgins out there) is certainly not bad at all. In fact, When she has her full powers she's great.

Oct 12, 2011 4:28 AM

#47

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Jul 2007

23708

Leon-Gun said:
I know Alexander is quite the bro and all but F/SN's Rider (whose name I'll not spoil for all the VN virgins out there) is certainly not bad at all. In fact, When she has her full powers she's great.

FSN Rider with ..hm.....correct,proper and true master of hers is quite a beast and pretty much a speed demon. Add to that her already quite amazing destructive power and...

While she is certainly not as strong as this Rider(due to his NP and stats), she was one of the most "proficient" servants of fifth heaven's feel, when given a chance to shine, IMO

Oct 12, 2011 5:49 AM

#48

kaimax

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Jun 2008

1840

FSN Rider never had a chance to shine in the anime or Fate route of the VN.

Just because you see her dead fast, doesn't mean she's weak. Even FSN's Assassin, the "fake one" is strong and most servants doesn't want to fight him one on one in a fair match.

None of these servants are "weak".

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Oct 12, 2011 5:57 AM

#49

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23708

kaimax said:
FSN Rider never had a chance to shine in the anime or Fate route of the VN.
Just because you see her dead fast, doesn't mean she's weak. Even FSN's Assassin, the "fake one" is strong and most servants doesn't want to fight him one on one in a fair match.
None of these servants are "weak".

^

This.

Fake Assassin himself is impressive. He is able to match Saber in speed, his signature move is pretty much pure inescapable h4x and he is not even a "true servant".

The problem is that FSN anime downplayed EVEN fate route feats.

Oct 12, 2011 6:10 AM

#50