| I'm not sure if I can get an Answer here, but I hope I can. Someone here gotta know Japanese fluently and have good experience with it. I know the Japanese only have a few accents, is this one of them? A sentence in japanese often ends with "desu". This is how it's spelled in Romaji, A sentence could go like this: 'Konichiwa. watashiwa Cornholio desu' This meens: Hello. I am Cornholio. The 'su' in 'desu' is what bothers me. It sounds like they just say "des" and do not pronounce the 'u'. In Japanese the 'u' is actually there, but as soon as you start saying the "u" you stop. So it sounds like 'des' but the 'u' is always there. But in Animes, I hear in some series they really say 'desu' with the 'u' clearly said in the 'desu' so it sounds like, desu. And often it's girls. I'm still learning Japanese and I'm not sure about this. Basically, the 'su' letter could be pronounced differently? Is this an accent thing? |
| You are right, 'desu' is usually pronounced as 'des'. I guess it's not that su (す) is special , it's just that in everyday conversations/informal speech u tends to be dropped (especially when it appears at the end of the sentence). It's not uncommon practice. Just look how often English speakers shorten words or even phrases (wanna, gonna etc.). EDIT: Now that I think about it, I've seen this a lot happening to syllables ending in u (eg. yakusoku pronounced as yak-soku, gozaimasu > gozaimas, suki >ski) Still, I'm not an expert, so it'd be better if a native speaker explained this. |
metamorphiusApr 26, 2011 1:17 PM
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| Desu is usually pronounced as "des" and yes, suki as "s-ki" Japanese people don't really pronounce it, it's just like sometimes we don't pronounce the "h" when we say for example "honor" or something. However in anime it's different because usually whenever I hear anyone say "de-su" it's usually a girl trying to be moe or something :P I think that when you pronounce it it sounds cuter? Idk xD!!! And also anime characters tend to put "desu" at the end of sentences to be cute too They add desu or other random sentence ending...thingies... So they just change it up Technically it's supposed to be "des" if you are trying to say correct japanese In anime eveything just changes I guess :P At least that's what I think The only times I've heard "de-su" is from cute anime girls so yeah, that's my main point I guess xD And so my conclusion: The reason why girls say "de-su" instead of "des" is b/c they're trying to sound cute and it's not even the correct USAGE (most of the time). No guys (at least I haven't heard any) will say "de-su" it's not even the correct pronounciation D< Okay yup yup :D |
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metamorphius said: You are right, 'desu' is usually pronounced as 'des'. I guess it's not that su (す) is special , it's just that in everyday conversations/informal speech u tends to be dropped (especially when it appears at the end of the sentence). It's not uncommon practice. Just look how often English speakers shorten words or even phrases (wanna, gonna etc.). EDIT: Now that I think about it, I've seen this a lot happening to syllables ending in u (eg. yakusoku pronounced as yak-soku, gozaimasu > gozaimas, suki >ski) Still, I'm not an expert, so it'd be better if a native speaker explained this. Yes. But then, as my question remains. Anime reflects pretty well Japanese culture, and ofc their language. So when they pronounce "desu" as "desu" with the 'u' clearly said, is this an accent? Or what is it about.. |
xdeath_bunnyx said: Desu is usually pronounced as "des" and yes, suki as "s-ki" Japanese people don't really pronounce it, it's just like sometimes we don't pronounce the "h" when we say for example "honor" or something. However in anime it's different because usually whenever I hear anyone say "de-su" it's usually a girl trying to be moe or something :P I think that when you pronounce it it sounds cuter? Idk xD!!! And also anime characters tend to put "desu" at the end of sentences to be cute too They add desu or other random sentence ending...thingies... So they just change it up Technically it's supposed to be "des" if you are trying to say correct japanese In anime eveything just changes I guess :P At least that's what I think The only times I've heard "de-su" is from cute anime girls so yeah, that's my main point I guess xD And so my conclusion: The reason why girls say "de-su" instead of "des" is b/c they're trying to sound cute and it's not even the correct USAGE (most of the time). No guys (at least I haven't heard any) will say "de-su" it's not even the correct pronounciation D< Okay yup yup :D Could be correct :P Tho, If my memory is right. I saw in anime that when they say the 'u' it's an accent. But it sounds more likely that girls trying to be cute, or the author thinks it's cute, and in general, its actually cute in a way :P |
Cornholio77Apr 26, 2011 3:20 PM
| From what I know, (I am not an expert) "u" tends to be the least sustained vowel compared to the others, which is why Katakana equivalents of English words, like the word for "Hotel" (ホテル・Hoteru), end in a "u" when the English word ends in a consonant that can't be ended otherwise. (Like "n", a consonant Japanese words can end in). So "desu" can be more or less pronounced as "dess" and be fine. I think that one should basically draw attention away from the "u" sound, while still keeping it there. I'm not that good at explaining this. :P Unless there are two "u" sounds (like "すう" or "スー"), in which you would sound out a bit more clearly. |
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| Yes, it's true that 'desu' is characteristic of somewhat feminine speech. I guess it could be a matter of dialect as well in some cases, but in most cases it's an idiosyncrasy. From my limited knowledge of phonology, I'd say that (often) after voiceless sounds (like s or k) u somehow becomes devoiced (or kinda silent). That is to say, it's not completely dropped, but is often barely audible. Also, this u (represented as /ü͍/) is quite different from /u/ in English because it's not rounded. |
metamorphiusApr 26, 2011 2:22 PM
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| What do you mean, "accent?" Do you mean the same use of the word as in "English accent" or "southern accent"? |
| Moenism. |
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| Japanese people often drop the "u" in desu and the "i" in shi. This is why words like doshite sound like doshte. This can also be seen in phrases such as Arigatou Gozaimasu and Yoroshiku Onegaishimasu (the "u" is silent in both.) Pronouncing the u or the i is technically still correct but you will seldom hear a native speaker do so. You can PM me if you have anymore questions. |
Rouge_ToshokanApr 27, 2011 4:22 AM
| Basically its like evryone said, its spelled with the "u" but its usually dropped when spoken. Pronouncing it or putting an emphasis on it makes you sound cuter i guess? Depends really, I guess it can be kinda compared to little kids pronouncing things wrong making them seem cute? Langauge is a fickly beast, which is why I love it so. |
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| well i dont think its all that surprising... i mean lol... parfait is supposed to said with a silent "t" but i know alot of people who say it with a emphasis on it, its the same thing... people just want to seem a little different or something like that |
     "If only if only, the woodpecker cried, the bark on the tree was as soft as the sky" || ♪My mind, heart is broken♫ |
| It depends on your original pronunctiation, you English speaking people cannot understand it. The U is there. |
 Waratte Oemashou Sore ha Chiisana Inori |
| i was talking about this with my brother a few days ago. i'll paste everything he said to me. do you know the difference between voiced and unvoiced? unvoiced is t, voiced is d if you put your fingers around your throat you can feel the difference it's just whether the voice box is vibrating everything else is the same that's why タ gets it to become ダ for example it turns out that there are also voiced and unvoiced vowels but between english and japanese, those only exist in japanese i *believe* the rule is that the vowel takes the voicing from the consonant so normally ク just sounds like a click トロント instead of toronto sounds to english speakers like "toront" basically, a character that is consonant-vowel will sound like the vowel doesn't exist to some extent to english speakers. of course, words can always be enunciated for whatever reason, hence why you sometimes hear des-u. |
ladyxzeus said: We do understand, after all there's plenty of words in English that are pronounced in strange ways.It depends on your original pronunctiation, you English speaking people cannot understand it. The U is there. |
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| From what I was taught, most native speakers will say Dess over Desu. If you hear the 'u' it's often soft and not so pronounced. And that applies to other words and phrases as well. Saying 'Desu' is also seen as girly I believe. Both are right it's just a matter of how you wish to say it. |
| A word can be pronounced in more than one way; the same applies to desu. |
| The u is there. It just that it was pronounced with low voice. |
| I never realized it until now, since I'm starting to have various anime flashbacks on random characters saying "desu" but when I'm watching videos of my favorite seiyuus off of YouTube, I hear "des." I guess it can be pronounced both ways, however they wanted to. |
Neverarine said: well i dont think its all that surprising... i mean lol... parfait is supposed to said with a silent "t" but i know alot of people who say it with a emphasis on it, its the same thing... people just want to seem a little different or something like that Huh... I speak fluent French: There's 'parfait' and there's 'parfaite'. Masculine and femine respectively. So you can also pronounce the t. This are borrowed words and I don't understand how it's the same thing as 'desu'. Even examples such as: Please and 'hello' and 'hallooo, 'please' and 'pweaase' would be more fitting. You're meant to pronounce the 'u' in 'desu' anyways, it's just some people like to emphasize the 'su' sound to achieve whatever purpose they may want i.e. sounding cuter or more feminine. |
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| it sounds cuter? also i never really understanded what it means in sentenced, can someone explain it to meh? |
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Leonard93 said: it sounds cuter? also i never really understanded what it means in sentenced, can someone explain it to meh? Are you asking what 'desu' means in sentence? Desu is a verb. Grammatically speaking, it's a copula, i.e. a word that links a subject and a predicate. Its meaning is often (but not always) the same as English verb 'to be'. It comes at the end of a sentence because Japanese has different word order than English. A simple example: Kore wa inu desu. (This is a dog) |
metamorphiusApr 28, 2011 6:05 AM
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| You can't really give example from a language to an other. They are fundamentally totally different and they word totally differently. That's what makes linguistics so hard. |
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| weebs weebs everywhere. But seriously it's a devoiced vowel, which means exactly as it sounds. Same for the word kutsu, which means shoe. There's lots of them out there but if a japanese person is lazy or wants to express extra emotion they will accentuate the devoiced vowel. |
DoubleDango said: You can't really give example from a language to an other. They are fundamentally totally different and they word totally differently. That's what makes linguistics so hard. Of course you can't, I'm aware of that since I've studied linguistics (and hated its intricacies from time to time). But we do have contrastive linguistics. I've specifically emphasized that English and Japanese word order is completely different (SVO vs SOV). However, Leonard asked what 'desu' meant and that example gives at least a vague image. I could've said that sentence means sth like: This-TOPIC MARKER-dog-to be(3rd person singular, present) but that would just complicate things further and wouldn't explain much. And, yes, this is not perfectly correct explanation either, but what the heck, this is not a language forum. As for the comments about English and its loan words (God knows how many words English has 'borrowed' over centuries xD), I concur that comparing those to 'desu' variation is somewhat misleading and not very appropriate. Summa summarum, I've said (and other people) that 'u' is devoiced because of the influence of voiceless consonants so that pretty much explains why it behaves the way it does. It may be a bit difficult to get, because English (as well as my mother tongue, for example) doesnt have such vowels. |
metamorphiusApr 29, 2011 2:57 AM
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| I always thought that it was just a silent vowel, like you get in the english language. In ALI PROJECT's song Yukyou Seishunka she says "Desu ka" slowly and she really does say it "DE SU KA" so I'm guessing it's just because of the speed that they speak the language at. But hey, that's just my opinion. |
| "u" is a whispered vowel. The vowels i (ee) and u (oo) come out as a whisper whenever they fall between the consonant sounds ch, h, k, p, s, sh, t, and ts or whenever a word ends in this consonant-vowel combination. What do those consonants have in common? They're what linguists call "voiceless," meaning that they don't make your vocal cords vibrate. Put your hand over your vocal cords and say a voiceless consonant like the k sound. Then say a "voiced" consonant like the g sound. They're pronounced when the character is emphasizing something or putting stress on that word. Sometimes girls say it, probably to sound cute. It's probably also a regional thing. In reality, it really depends on how the person is taught to speak. Some Japanese might emphasize it more, while others do it less. When you think about languages, not all people say words exactly the same. It's like that in this case. I believe whispered vowels are also often pronounced in songs. "desu" is a copulative verb, which means it takes the place of a verb in a sentence. 'desu' used in this sentence: kore wa inu desu", takes the place of "to be". (this is a dog) "kore wa nan desu ka" what is this? "empitsu desu" a pencil/it's a pencil I could just say "empitsu" if I wanted, but adding the "desu" makes it a complete sentence, even though the desu has no specific meaning. I can also add the desu to verbs and interrogatives to make them more polite. kore wa nan desu ka- what is this anata wa dare desu ka- who are you doko e iku'n desu ka- where are you going? nani wo tabetai desu ka- what do you want to eat? |
federMay 1, 2011 5:53 PM
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| I say it DESS-OOH-NAY |
Cornholio77 said: metamorphius said: You are right, 'desu' is usually pronounced as 'des'. I guess it's not that su (す) is special , it's just that in everyday conversations/informal speech u tends to be dropped (especially when it appears at the end of the sentence). It's not uncommon practice. Just look how often English speakers shorten words or even phrases (wanna, gonna etc.). EDIT: Now that I think about it, I've seen this a lot happening to syllables ending in u (eg. yakusoku pronounced as yak-soku, gozaimasu > gozaimas, suki >ski) Still, I'm not an expert, so it'd be better if a native speaker explained this. Yes. But then, as my question remains. Anime reflects pretty well Japanese culture, and ofc their language. So when they pronounce "desu" as "desu" with the 'u' clearly said, is this an accent? Or what is it about.. Pronouncing the "u" or not pronouncing the "u" in "desu" is more of how you are raised and how you prefer saying the word. Many words with "u" or "i" will not be pronounced with those letters like "Shi" as "sh" or "su" as just "s". It really just depends on your preference. Many people say "ichi" for "1" and many say "ich". There are many words where the "u" or the "i" is always pronounced as well. You learn from experience. |
 “Many of us crucify ourselves between two thieves - regret for the past and fear of the future.” ~ Fulton Oursler |
| Basically, if you pronounce the u, you sound like an idiot. I hear that's the number one complaint native Japanese speakers have about those who learn Japanese as a secondary language. They use the word "desu" way too often (instead of just substituting "da" for it, or leaving it out completely), and when they use it, they leave the u sound on. If you pronounce the u, you really just sound stupid. |
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