Hibike! Euphonium 3 Episode 12 Discussion

I could accept Mayu winning (after a lot of grieving) if the situation made sense like Taki just choosing her. I am not a professional musician, but I competed in solo and ensemble competition throughout grade school. I know it is subjective, but after my first listen to the two soli, the second one sounded better - tone, dynamics, vibrato, phrasing... and mainly sounding like a duet vs accompaniment. I decided in one listen because the band members had to decide in one listen.

Throughout the season, Mayu and Kumiko are described as equals except that Reina mentions that Mayu has the sound they are looking for. That’s why I don’t understand when people mention that Mayu is better than Kumiko. Taki couldn’t choose, the ensemble barely chose one over the other. Mayu mentioned that she is honest with her music, so we know she is giving her all and still ending up neck and neck with Kumiko, who admits hasn’t being playing her best. Mayu keeps saying she can give up the solo and just wants to play in the ensemble, which I bet is something she could do if she asked Taki in private. Thus, she can audition and give it her all to be a member of the ensemble but even if she is better than Kumiko, she would pass on the soli without anyone knowing. Problem solved.

But all that aside, just getting to the point where you need to have a blind audition where the students vote is absurd.

Taki is the teacher and is trained in music so should have a good judgement of who would better fit. Both Kumiko and Mayu have rehearsed and played in competition the soli so Taki would know how each would sound with the group. Taki has also been Kumiko's teacher for the past 3 years, so he should know her tendencies and play style and if it matched the sound he wants. As the conductor, he stands in front of the band with all their sounds coming straight at him, so he has the best idea of whose sound matches instead of someone in the ensemble sitting off to the side or behind - I sat in front of trumpets and all I heard was trumpets blasting into my ears most of the time. It should have been Taki who chose not just because it is his job, but he has the most information about each player and the group as a whole. This would be the more realistic.

If their goal is gold and it is merit based, then why have a vote? Several of the students are beginners or not as knowledgeable to know what would make a gold-winning sound. I get the purpose was to not create turmoil again and fix Mayu/Kumiko's relationship, but what if that backfired too? What if one got all the votes and the other got none and they just quit because of embarrassment? What if Mayu still won, but since half the ensemble voted from Kumiko, they are still dissatisfied with the results? Why take the chance to create a new mess?

Finally, what precedence does this set going forward? The first and second years may continue to be in the band under Taki but now without Kumiko as president. So, if they disagree with his judgement again, do they just cause discord and it goes back to students voting - he's done it before. He has not repaired the ensemble's confidence in him as their leader.

I think after Kumiko's speech in the second competition plus them moving on to nationals, the ensemble would accept Mayu being chosen again by Taki even if they still did not like it. There was no reason to rehash the same drama or create an audition similar to what happened in Season 1. I get that it creates drama and hits you in the feels, but the whole situation even happening is far fetch and feels forced especially it ending in 50/50 with Reina being the deciding vote.

If they kept the original results, everyone would just accept the show as overall great show. But with the change, a portion of the viewers still think it is great, but then another portion now dislike it (mainly just Season 3). Besides the adding drama, my Japanese friend in Japan mentioned that maybe they did this to cause this discord and get people talking about the series. That will bring more people to the series and in turn more money.

I watched this episode when the drama about this particular episode died down. Tbh, I surprised that only a few on this forum even talked about how Mayu got scot-free with her stupid questions every episode and never ever apologize to Kumiko for her insensitive question, she's even asking that damn question just before the audition. The only one who apologized was Kumiko when she's given the same answer every damn time she was asked that uncomfortable question that she certainly didn't want to hear. The little flashback can mean many things, but I strongly believed her friend quit because she's asking that damn question knowing she's superior than her friend.

I still don't like Mayu one bit, this episode cemented her to be a manipulative girl she is which I had an inkling from earlier episodes. She only wants one thing to guilt trip a club president with the added responsibility, so she can felt much burden than she already had, If she really thinks about Kumiko like Kanade said she will not asking her this question every time and add her mental burden even further.

Reina decided to become tone deaf at the last minute, hope she retired from her musical career early.

Taki showing his incompetence and regressed IQ as story progress. To our untrained ear we can already determined that the music were different, he should be sacked for being a bad plus stupid teacher.

Not sure why this episode got so much positive reception? The writing is all over the place and making only Kumiko apologized to Mayu was the start of it.

The only thing that might salvage this for me is if Kitauji lose (preferrably miserably) just to show reality like they did with this episode which is highly impossible because the director wanted to prove a point.

@sirwence Then let me introduce to you to the author of "Sexy Tanaka-san" manga, Ashihara Hinako (it's a very heartbreaking case).

@popscrackle "Throughout the season, Mayu and Kumiko are described as equals except that Reina mentions that Mayu has the sound they are looking for. That’s why I don’t understand when people mention that Mayu is better than Kumiko."

This is what I say, and somehow people come to the conclusion that mayu deserves the solo because she's somehow better, even when the anime hasn't show that at all, and this episode just confirms it by making them tie twice

You're telling me that taki sensei couldn't choose between the two cause they're so similar but somehow reina could decide in less than 10 seconds, but they hold hands in the last minute of the episode and suddenly is good writing...

If you told me that taki sensei made the open audition so the other sudents choose kumiko then it would make sense (not expecting kumiko to ask for it to be blind), but even if that was the case he would choose kumiko right away, and IF mayu's actually better then half the episode makes no sense cause she should just win the first audition, they did this just to make reina the tiebreaker for a fabricated drama at the last moment.

@FireFistYK Well... seems that Takeda-sensei is okay with the changes so I'm glad we won't have another "Sexy Tanaka-san" case.
Not that I agree with what KyoAni did, but oh well.

@theprussian Is it? I think the tweet from the author more like a damage control kind of thing, Some have justified the decisions going on in this episode with their own way of logics which is fine but if I'm being honest, this drama is clearly manufactured to bait for emotional height. If I'm being honest, the author is partly to blame because he/she included this stupid hypocritical character into the roster and kyoani take advantage from it and she even dressed as a victim in this whole fiasco which clearly untrue. Saying stupid ass like just want to play with others but underhandedly guilt trip everyone and in audition doesn't pull her punches.


Yes, and Kumiko need to pay for it especiailly in her 1st audition. That's why I don't like this idea that she got away with this scot-free and the writing even painted as she is the victim in all of this and even got a very good payoff after being "unintentionally manipulative" for a whole semester or 2. "HONEST TO MUSIC" just doesn't really cut it and does not explained why she's harassing Kumiko with that question even though she clearly got the answer she wants every time she asked about it. This is bad writing. Let's not even get into how Taki suddenly make a whole ass audition just for Euphonium soli just to run away from his responsibility of owning up to his choice.



It's not. Kanade already explained in ep 11. Basically, saying that if situation is reversed Kumiko will not ask those questions or somewhere along those lines. They just come up with whatever reason to justify Mayu and added the bait of emotional past that she had and hope all is forgotten.

She clearly did *not* get the answer she was looking for, which was "I want to play the solo." Kumiko stubbornly refused to give her that answer, so she kept pestering Kumiko. If Kumiko had said that, Mayu would have dropped out, no questions asked.

I actually am not defending Taki. But, Taki also owned up to his failures ("I still have a lot to learn, don't I?"). As I've mentioned before, he's actually a pretty inexperienced teacher, and Kumiko actually proved a little more competent than him in this episode. BUT... I don't watch this anime to see perfect people, I watch this anime to see "human" people, and it does deliver on that.

I have my criticisms. I do think the drama in this episode was a little forced. But the scenes it gave us were so good that I can overlook that.

if episode 12 were to suggest or as per you said as far as she is "honest to music" goes. She already got the answer the 1st or 2nd time she asked this question which is merit-based. Btw, Kumiko is a president, she cannot allowed that to happened, the rumours might get circulated if she were to asked Mayu to dropped it and the respect people have to her will be gone. that's where Mayu as an only member don't or pretend to not understand Kumiko's dilemma and keep shoving the question to her face. That's where the manipulative part lies. That's why I'm outrage because even at this point Kumiko still care enough about this girl feelings to apologize but she, probably as you said unintentionally manipulative didn't recognize it as wrong thing to do and did not said a word of apology.

Nah, that's not failure by any metrics, that's just him realising that Kumiko have a good idea or at least better idea than what he proposed. I don't know about you but my untrained ear can hear the different in the music played or distinctness, why Taki who probably an expert deemed that these distinct music need another whole ass audition for it? Is none other than he don't want to choose and be blamed for it. Every damn person put a whole lot burden on Kumiko this season to solve everything from that Mayu fiasco and Even after the audition she's the one who reassured everybody of audition's result. Surprising she had not break down or depressed yet if "human" people and not perfect people is the one you want to see.

All I can see, they used Kumiko for what they think is burdensome for them to solved and cast her out after she already lose her usefulness.

I'm a trained musician. I voted for #2. #1 did sound a little more precise to me, which is why I think she was seen as "better", while #2 was warmer. Precise doesn't win over crowds, but it does win gold. But the chemistry between Kumiko and Reina was clear.

Anyway, I think it is a little more complex than that, and I think Asuka kind of pointed out why in Ep. 10. "Taki and the other kid are kind of stuck too". Taki is in a very unenviable position - there is no way he did not know about the discontent that was threatening to tear the group apart, and he was probably seeing a repeat of the solo auditions in season 1 between Kaori and Reina playing out again before his eyes - but he was, as Asuka said, stuck. he couldn't take a side without alienating (literally half, as we find out) half of the band. So he decided that the best course of action (and he said this himself, in not so many words) was to let the band themselves choose. He didn't necessarily cause the problem, but he had to walk a tightrope, because if he had made even one misstep it would have ripped the band apart. He is the authority figure, he can't afford to show weakness in the face of that kind of high school drama. And he said himself he tends to be a bit cold in these situations.

I think he deliberately chose Mayu and Kumiko and held separate auditions so that whatever happens, he can't be blamed for it, and the band has to work out their decision amongst themselves. Is that the easy way out? Maybe. It strikes me as a sign of his inexperience that blind auditions never seemed to occur to him. I loved how they animated his moment of realization, you could almost see him going "shimatta, kore wa doushite omoimasen deshita ka?" (crap, why didn't I think of that?) You mentioned at some point that this was *only* for the euphoniums - was there that kind of drama for the clarinets or the trumpet? No, ALL of the band drama was centered around the euphos. I can't imagine him going through all the trouble for groups where the outcome wasn't at all in doubt and one of the contenders wasn't a highly popular president. He could at the least have explained his decision, but that's not something that Japanese authority figures do. Also, We should be careful not to see what happened through a western lens. Taki is in *charge*, and all that discontent and drama, while somewhat normal for an American high school, is really a little out of the ordinary in Japanese society - at least for it to be that *blatant*.

Anyway, I'm not going to convince you, and I'm not really trying, tbh. I know that, as Kanade said, the frustration is entirely separate from everything else. But I at least hope I've gotten across how complicated this characterization is and it's not really something that lends itself to simplistic analysis.

Or maybe I'm overthinking, as I tend to do with things that lend themselves to it.

@lycoping Yes, you just explained what I wrote but in detailed manner and that's why I said, he's being this incompetent as per you said put a lot more burden to Kumiko, and Kumiko had to bear the brunt of the situation due to his incompetent. She failed and outvoted. No time to grief had to put a smile to reassured other students, what kind of teacher is he? Not only him where is Reina or Shuichi? That's why when you said is real person and not perfect person portrayed, I disagree. Because Kumiko's self sacrifice is not real at all without her breaking down due to it.

What do you think happened in the last two minutes of this episode?

Reina broke - but so did Kumiko. She broke, exactly as you said she would have. That's one of the things that made it so powerful.

@lycoping Yes, She cried but it's more grief about not chosen for the soli and not fulfilling the promise, and she still basically blamed herself but anyone else for this matter she also come up with twisted reason like hesitation in sound or whatever to justify her losing and self-blaming. Refused to blame Reina which broke the promise first and take full blame for anything which means she still didn't recognize self-sacrifice that she made. It became so incredibly jarring instead of moving because she's so hung up on blaming herself for everything and anything for this season. If anything I can get from that scene, she need mental health and medical check up.

Is that a real person to you?

Partly. Also having failed to stand shoulder to shoulder with the friend she loves. Point being, she did break, and having had a few times when I've been about that inconsolable myself, it's kind of realistic. You're fine and happy and doing great... right up until you're not. The way she behaved (keeping it inside and looking out for the collective first) is very Japanese and we might not really understand that mindset. It's not always a positive one, but it's 100% Japanese. That she was able to let that out in front of Reina is a Big Deal. (and vice versa)

Anyway... I'm interested to see what they do with the next episode. I don't think Kumiko's and Reina's relationship arc is fully closed off yet, and I'm not convinced the audition arc is fully closed off yet either.

Thanks for the civil conversation, I'm going to watch some anime and study Japanese.

We were all Kanade this episode.

But nah, man. KyoAni sure screwed up big time with this outcome. They really went against the source material and made Kumiko lose to someone who only had like two minutes of characterization throughout 12 episodes. Not to mention someone who wasn't even a better musician than Kumiko, as many characters stated throughout the season.
And all for the sake of some meh "realism" and forced drama? And the author even agreed to this change? Man, imagine being so insecure you can't defend your own work when someone comes to you with such stupid plot twist smh.
What a way to throw a project of almost ten years to the trash bin, huh?

Well... so what now? What's the point of them winning the Nationals after this? Are we really gonna get a 3-4 minute long solo sequence between Reina and Kuroe, the Eupho NPC?

And also, Taki... way to go, man. You really threw a whole ass audition and put all the pressure onto a teenage girl to give the decisive vote just because you couldn't choose when it was needed. What a way to run away from your responsibilities, huh? Teacher?