Heion Sedai no Idaten-tachi Episode 8 Discussion

Ariahs0235 said:
what if Hayato and the others are the same situation as the nun?

HamsSOLO said:

If that's the case, the human version of them is already dead.

Sigmar-Unberogen said:
@SkyhighCFC

"Yeah, I feel bad for demons, they never had a winning chance."
"I'd say, Idaten can go to hell!"
You can assume what you want in your head but it's always better to ask for answers instead. This is basically "so what you're saying is..." argument. If I say I don't like color black, doesn't mean I like white. Assuming that I do - is ludicrous at best.

I don't know why you think "she should be more thankful" considering how Idaten never intended to rescue ANYBODY, and even when one happed to rescue a nun, he said he'd give 0 shits whether she died or not; and all this happened MOMENTS after the rescue. Yeah, I'd be incredibly grateful too...
It's baffling why you'd say this. The nun clearly believed in a merciful, protector-god; not some... god-like kid... who runs around killing/fighting "presumably redeemable in nun's opinion" demons, while saying "I don't give a shit if humans die in process or not".

Ok, so Nun turns out to be a very caring and kind person. This also says a lot about what kind of religion she would follow and what kind of god she would believe in. My point though was about nun showing concern towards a demon and an enemy, because in the end the said enemy basically saved her from the "I only care about fights - god"! Nun's belief must have shattered at this point. A god that isn't the god she envisioned, and a demon who basically did the god's job! What a twist! That slap she gave to Idaten was like "You call yourself a god?". She may not yet realize this, but I think she refuses to acknowledge Idaten as gods, despite them being akin to gods - meaning, overpowered and unkillable.
If you're confused than fret no longer - we do watch the same show; end of discussion.

Sure you do...
-You expected nun to be thankful to Idaten despite the fact Idaten almost killed her in a crossfire multiple times (including Rin's actions). Doesn't matter if some demon was about to kill her as well. Nun already witnessed how demons can be good, so seeing a "god" so casually kill someone who may be just as good as the emperor - is infuriating and requires a slap!
-You claimed only "few" humans died as if to "justify" Rin's erratic actions. It doesn't matter if Rin considers a thousand or a million dead humans as "few".
-You claim Idaten don't kill for sport when some obviously do and you admitted this later.
-And, you even expressed how you don't care about the emperor's last decision, because he's a demon who's supposedly responsible for warcrimes hence all his efforts are equal to null.

For someone who states "facts" you obviously criticize demons more and paint even the most redeemable one of them as bad. Also, you seem to assume that demons sole purpose is to destroy humans. That may have been true for the brainless demons of 800 years ago, but not current demons with intelligence. Things change...
So? Anomaly or not, he kills for sport and that's a fact you initially denied, hence why my statement about you being biased is justified. If you're stating the facts, don't claim that emperor's last decision doesn't mean much since he's PRESUMABLY the cause of war and terror; while sugarcoating Rin's atrocities with "she's killing few humans" or with "Ysley is an anomaly"

I said what I said because you're wrong. Show did say that demons were a threat to humanity, but it was talking about savage demons driven by instincts - one that was killed in episode 1. Even Idaten are not that black and white (apart from Rin perhaps), so for you to assume that demons have to be a threat "just because demons" is biased yet again. The whole Nun-Emperor scene was meant to prove this point!!! Emperor, a demon, A THREAT TO HUMANITY, refused to endanger a random human girl and then refused to nuke the city despite having nothing to lose. Demons are not that simple. If there's one, there can be more. The show itself contradicts your "demon's sole purpose is to be a threat to humanity's existence" argument.
I don't know why you're explaining this to me? Sounds more like an excuse that justifies "Rin, the killing-machine". Why should it matter what Rin thinks when killing humans and demons. My point stands. Demons are more human-like than Idaten are; hence why I said I felt sorry for them. Meanwhile, Idaten are more akin to "heartless killing machines", than humans; hence why I said they can go to hell - because I don't really care what happens to them, since they don't care what happens to humans unless demons are involved.

Just to make it clear, I think demons and Idaten are both a threat to humans on a grand scale and should both fuck off! STILL, I feel sorry for SOME demons, because boiling ALL of them in a single pot is simply unfair. Idaten can go to hell because demons managed to become sentient and one even showed empathy towards humans. Meanwhile Idaten are like drones who have no interest in integration with humans and couldn't change their POV despite having no natural enemy for a while. It's hard to picture what Idaten will do once, or if, demons are gone; they'll probably destroy the world by accident or after getting bored.
How is this not a biased statement? What if the emperor was a simple figurehead? His actions would still be irrelevant? How so???
Nor should he be labeled as a monster! At least not yet!
"Don't even get me started on the Emperor showing "empathy" on his deathbed. Where was this "empathy" when his kind were hunting down humans, enslaving the women and literally raping them non-stop." - You used this statement to downplay an obvious act of kindness. At the same time you expected nun to be thankful for the rescue that happened "randomly on the hunt" and almost ended with her death thanks to the erratic actions of the "savior".
There's not enough info for you to claim it's not "something he'd normally feel". Man didn't have enough screenplay, and when he did he showed empathy even though demons supposedly shouldn't do that. I think that speaks volumes. I will have 0 respect for Idaten unless they realize what the nun realized - demons can be redeemed.
I don't know why you'd say this when I already stated that: "First of all I'll start with admitting that NOT ALL Idaten are hertless killing machines. Paula is likely not hertless". I think you got too emotional after reading the word "biased" and accidentally skipped this very important phrase.
Because I was talking about the emperor in particular, not about all demons in general! I expressed how emperor was a more decent being than Rin and Hayato; hence why it's understandable why nun felt sorry for demons despite getting raped by the soldiers of their army. You just assumes that I had to like/support/side with all the demons in this show...
I have no problem understanding why Rin's killing demons without question, but she has spent 800 years in a world dominated by humans and still couldn't advance beyond demon-killing-machine state of mind. There's nothing to discuss about a pale and boring character as Rin. Same can't be said about the Emperor. Boring drones like Rin can go to hell, alongside with boring psycho-demons who have only murder/rape/violence on mind.
No, you just failed to read.
Once again, WE DON'T KNOW THAT. Dude may have been an emperor with no power whatsoever. Just because he was on the "evil side", doesn't mean he has to be evil. You assume you know the story of the character to help taint his image - this only proves that you're biased.

P.S And, just a reminder - we're having this discussion because you ASSUMED that by saying: "Yeah, I feel bad for demons" and "Idaten can go to hell" - I had to be siding with ALL the demons.

anddddddddddd I was proven right about the demons in today's episode. So much for all that "empathy" they were capable of.

Sigmar-Unberogen said:
@SkyhighCFC
There's a reason why I ignored you last time. I'm tired explaining that:
1) I don't side with demons. I do dislike Idaten, but yet again, me hating A, doesn't mean I have to like B. You just naively assumed this as a fact.
2) I never said that ALL demons are/can be good or are capable of empathy. I was talking about the EMPEROR in particular. Learn to read please.
3) All you've proven yet again is how biased you're POV is. Ironically you told me not to tag every idaten as "heartless killing machines", and yet here you are...

Stop mentioning me...