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katsu044 said: Man so glad i finished eating before the part with Berseker..and Kiritsugu seems to lose everyone close to the poor guy :C. i just don't get why rider Kidnapped her?! that doesn't seem like something he would do Good that is how you should feel waiting for the next ep.... |
Topgunuk69 said: That's the kind of thing they really shouldn't leave to additional materials. The novel isn't showing erotic scenes. They just imply them. I don't think Gen would like to write half of the cast having sex. LunarMoon said: I'd say he's pretty competent. Sure. That's why they have the Third Magic back! And why their ideas always work. Except they never do. Topgunuk69 said: On a personal basis, sure, but in terms of what they actually act upon, they'd prefer for Kiritsugu to use his sniper rifle. Not really. Do you see the Clock Tower fond of him? Topgunuk69 said: No, it really isn't. At the very least, I doubt that Urobuchi would be idealistic enough to support Saber's honor code, especially given how he treated Lancer. Saber was lucky; which is more than can be said for anyone else who rode off to war, willing to kill and die for that impractical ideal. It doesn't matter what Gen wants. This is Nasuverse. ssjokg said: Again I dont sse how nobility and chivalry make war better.At least kiritsugu knows that he is fucked up while she goes "no we have honor and shit..." .Killing is killing ,murder is murder and war is war mot matter the methods you use something Arturia fails to understand.I dont see how she is fine at all You can't treat the Nasuverse as the real world. Ideals become the ultimate Beam Spam attack (that's Excalibur). The one time that Saber wasn't chivalrous, Caliburn broke. What does Kiritsugu's dirty play becomes? Nothing. Kiritsugu wasn't speaking a real 'truth'. If you read the novels, he's acting like a petulant child in that scene because he's even more idealistic than Saber herself but he's bitter about it. |
ThessMay 19, 2012 8:12 PM
| Saber vs Rider next episode. I thought we'd have to wait longer for some action, but I guess not. Hopefully they won't gimp it and the upcoming ones. |
Zyglrox said: |
| It's about time someone gets it: everyone is living in his or her own ideals. That is how a human lives. No Heroic Spirits or Masters in this series is an exception. Even Gilgamesh and Kirei live with their ideals. Clearly, Kiritsugu knows this and this is what makes his character interesting. Same with the honor and chivalry of Saber. |
bla bla bla The endless debate between fans and haters. At one point, after spending a lot of time on MAL, you just realize it's totally pointless.Niko-kun said: On MAL, everyone who has used the lame rating system becomes a critic and an intellectual by default, haven't you heard? |
Topgunuk69 said: Thess said: It's in CM that Kiritsugu cheated on Irisviel with Maiya which he considered a "betrayal of his wife's love." That's the kind of thing they really shouldn't leave to additional materials. Yeah I agree with Topgunuk69. I kind of wish this was confirmed because I totally didn't see Maiya as Kiritsugu's mistress, which made me so confused why you started saying that she is. I know she kissed Kiritsugu back in season 1 but I thought it was only to get Kiritsugu back in focus. I admit the kissing scene is still bizarre to me but anyhow I always thought the relationship between Kiritsugu and Maiya was just...him using her as a tool to fulfill his plans. Do you have link or access to that specific CM? Thess said: Zyglrox said: |
| Well I was expecting some action since the last few eps have been a bit slow in that respect.. (though still great ofc). I'm just bummed I have to wait another week now for pure awesome. I still enjoyed the ep and I'm really interested to see the rest of Kariya's story. Maiya's death was so sudden :'(. Go get em Kerry. |
sallym613 said: Thess said: Zyglrox said: Loved the episode and, like usual, it felt like it was over in half the length of any regular episode. Seriously, boring? Hah. What? Great dialogue as always and it got really exciting and sad towards the end. I nearly got teary-eyed a couple of times; when Iri was talking about how she wanted Kiritsugu and Saber to win in order to give Illya a future, and when Maiya was dying. The remaining episodes should satisfy people who are only here for the action... |
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Thess said: Topgunuk69 said: That's the kind of thing they really shouldn't leave to additional materials. The novel isn't showing erotic scenes. They just imply them. I don't think Gen would like to write half of the cast having sex. It's not as if he'd have to write a descriptive hentai scene (not that he's a stranger to that kind of thing), it could've been something as simple as a passing mention or a scene with them going to bed or waking up together, considering the fact he often goes into painstaking detail describing stuff that's ultimately unimportant like the V-Max I'd have thought something like this would warrant some page space. And as for the comment about half the cast having sex, honestly I got no vibe that any of the other cast members were having sex at all I mean you'd really have to want it to be true to come to that conclusion from reading the LN as far as I'm concerned, and if it's confirmed elsewhere like the Maiya thing then frankly I'm glad it wasn't there in the text because it just doesn't fit with the relationships we're actually shown. One of the things I like about F/Z is that it isn't constrained by the fact that it's an eroge like F/SN so there's no need to shoehorn awkward sex in there. That's cheapened for me somewhat by the possibility that in the background there's apparently a secret orgy going on. |
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stAtic91 said: Great dialogue as always and it got really exciting and sad towards the end. I nearly got teary-eyed a couple of times; when Iri was talking about how she wanted Kiritsugu and Saber to win in order to give Illya a future, and when Maiya was dying. Same here. Especially when Maiya is dying and Kiritsugu was crying. Based on the next preview, if they did that certain scene |
stAtic91 said: Dask said: Boring is the last word I would use to describe an episode of Fate/Zero. Not enough action for you this episode?So boring i think people still think this is gonna be a shounen tournament anime lmao |
| A return to the dialogue. Ridiculously good still. |
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Thess said: Sure. That's why they have the Third Magic back! And why their ideas always work. Except they never do. Acht does extremely well for himself. Throughout the four Grail Wars 56 people, 28 masters and 28 servants, have attempted to obtain the grail. Not really. Do you see the Clock Tower fond of him? Again, on a bureacratic and practical basis, not on a personal one. The only enforced rule in the Grail Wars is to avoid the reveal of magic to the muggle community, and unless any other stated rules exist or unless Word of God states otherwise, then no more exist, and to suggest otherwise is mere conjecture. You cannot cheat unless a rule is stated; Kiritsugu is just being clever, while thinking outside the box. It doesn't matter what Gen wants. This is Nasuverse. Gen is ultimately the author, which is why it's stylistically different from Fate/Stay Night and why many people view Fate/Zero as a Urobuchi work, more so than a Nasu work. Thus why there are people who hate Nasu and love Fate/Zero. Had he been successful, kiss the world goodbye in twenty years. sallym613 said: Based on the next preview, if they did that certain scene |
LunarMoonMay 19, 2012 9:31 PM
| ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Change, change the form of man. Free the might from fleshy mire. Boil the blood in heart of fire. Gone, gone the form of man. Rise the demon, Etrigan! |
| it's hard to care for Maiya in the anime because her conversations with Iri is not as fleshed out in the novel.. they had to cut out some of the details everytime she speaks to and/or is with her and it turns out that to me, Maiya is less appealing in the anime.. she's a favorite character of mine in the novel, and Maiya plus Iri are actually the two characters that have the best chemistry when together, rivaling that of Kirei plus Gil.. here, she's but a mere doll who just knows a lot of and follows Kiritsugu and serve only as a comparison with Iri on how they perceive the same man.. still, what they did in the anime for her is enough.. anyway, goodbye again, Maiya.. |
| How'd Saber suit back up? When she materializes her armor, she loses her previously equipped set of clothing -- or at least that how it was in Fate/Stay Night. I have nothing to say about this episode. I don't expect it to not meet my expectations. Can't wait for what's coming. |
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LunarMoon said: sallym613 said: Based on the next preview, if they did that certain scene |
Yanoflies said: How'd Saber suit back up? When she materializes her armor, she loses her previously equipped set of clothing -- or at least that how it was in Fate/Stay Night. Fate/Zero ep.6 |
| Simplistic beauty can't be appreciated by someone who looks for something grand in everything he watch. |
| This episode wasn't as good as the previous episodes, but it did have some good scenes. I can't believe Rider kidnapped Iri and killed Maiya. I have a feeling that it wasn't him. I'm looking forward to Iskander vs Saber |
Ragna92May 19, 2012 10:57 PM
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Thess said: Zyglrox said: Oh shush we all know its |
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Thess said: Topgunuk69 said: That's the kind of thing they really shouldn't leave to additional materials. The novel isn't showing erotic scenes. They just imply them. I don't think Gen would like to write half of the cast having sex. Yeah, rather he would write something like they start making out and then... for whathever reason someone ends death with the guts outside. Thats our Urobuchi And for the episode, mmmmm the few lines about Sakura are kinda.... gghhhh, dammit worms of hell, she's just a lil' girl. And miss the deceiver... mmm aka Kirei (or he's the one behind the scenes... just sayin') |
Topgunuk69 said: And as for the comment about half the cast having sex, honestly I got no vibe that any of the other cast members were having sex at all I mean you'd really have to want it to be true to come to that conclusion from reading the LN as far as I'm concerned, and if it's confirmed elsewhere like the Maiya thing then frankly I'm glad it wasn't there in the text because it just doesn't fit with the relationships we're actually shown. Had Gen wanted to include on page sex scenes: Kariya would have gotten raped by Berserker instead of blood drinking, had this be the 'eroge' version rather than the RN version (this was the same as Rider's sex dream of Shirou, it became a blood sucking one in the 'clean' version). Well, hell, even in the official art version of the scene it does look like rape. Poor guy, would the suffering ever stop? ;_; Knowing the official manga that had no censorship issues with Sakura, Rider and Caster stuff, I am sure they are going to adapt this in all its non-consensual "glory." :( Rider and Caster would have most likely had sex with their respective Masters (hell, Rider would have sex up Kayneth too, according to goddamn Gen, if he had been his Master), too. Also those little boys in Caster's grasp would have been raped. But I'm glad there weren't any sex scenes. On page at least... I can't imagine how hilarious the writing would be. Since many others asked. Fate/Zero Material page 102: "For Kiritsugu the sacrificing of his wife for the completion of the Holy Grail would be a "betrayal of his wife's love", no matter what anyone said, so he needed to be able to commit that betrayal without hesitation. His physical relationship with Maiya was practice of betrayal for him, and a form of self-harm in order to strenghten himself. As an excuse for adultery it's pretty low, but because Maiya herself had no problem with it it became a negative spiral. Shirou should not learn anything about women from this Dad." |
ThessMay 20, 2012 12:17 AM
| Just when I was thinking when and how Maiya would die it happened... what a coincidence. Good episode, can't wait for next one. |
| It was a great episode, I remember it being more emotional in the LN or maybe the effect just gets weaker the second time around :S Can't wait for all the action that's coming around the corner! |
“I’m tired of all the nonsense about beauty being only skin-deep. That’s deep enough. What do you want – an adorable pancreas?”      |
Selesnija said: It's obviously Hassan. Even the title of the episode is "Return of the Assassin..."They did a fucking good job at fleshing out the characters. Thus, everyone should know that this was not Rider, for he would not use kidnapping as a means to win. |
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Yanoflies said: Not true, only when she does it in a rush. In F/SN Rin chides Saber because she went headfirst into battle when Shirou summoned her and destroyed her clothes in the forced materialization. While yeah it is a little of a change (they were both materializations by COmmand Spell) you can still argue that in Stay Night's case she actually went head in to battle from 3 floors up and at abnormal speed, with a very heavy impact to boot. Here she pretty much just casually materializes in the shed.How'd Saber suit back up? When she materializes her armor, she loses her previously equipped set of clothing -- or at least that how it was in Fate/Stay Night. I have nothing to say about this episode. I don't expect it to not meet my expectations. Can't wait for what's coming. LunarMoon said: I think you missed the point completely. By saying "this is Nasuverse" in response to Saber's entire story and thematic behind it we mean that Nasu DOES NOT, AT ANY POINT, gives up Saber's main story over to Gen. Saber is Nasu's creation and what he wrote for her stays no matter how much Gen would love to break her. Nasu wrote a story of redemption and glorification for her and that's what ultimately remains. In the end she even travels to Avalon as a reward, if that's not an embelishment for her life of idealism, then nothing is. Nasu also glorified Shirou's ideals in Fate no matter the route he took. So, you can say whatever you want about Gen doing this and that to Lancer and Berserker and so on but Saber's story is ultimately defined by her reward in Fate/Stay Night. Her tribulations in Zero were rewarded in Stay Night by a Master that treated her as just a person (not as a King, Knight or Servant) and the knwoledge that she didn't fail her country, that she did all she could and no one could blame her for being human and making mistakes.Gen is ultimately the author, which is why it's stylistically different from Fate/Stay Night and why many people view Fate/Zero as a Urobuchi work, more so than a Nasu work. Thus why there are people who hate Nasu and love Fate/Zero. |
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Thess said: Rider and Caster would have most likely had sex with their respective Masters (hell, Rider would have sex up Kayneth too, according to goddamn Gen, if he had been his Master), too. Also those little boys in Caster's grasp would have been raped. But I'm glad there weren't any sex scenes. On page at least... I can't imagine how hilarious the writing would be. Well it depends on what you're saying there. I mean Rider and Caster being willing to have sex with their masters fits with the historical figures they represent (as does Caster's raping little boys) but the idea that they were having sex with them doesn't fit with the Master's characters or the character relationships we're shown. It hardly seems like sex with Caster would interest Uryuu, and when they both have a stream of children to abuse I don't think either of them would've been left wanting each other's company (in that way). Waver swinging that way doesn't seem like a stretch, but him having sex with Rider at any point during the story certainly does, there is no place you could insert a sex scene between them without it completely jarring with the relationship they build over the course of the LN/show. As for Kayneth, well it could be that once again Rider would be willing, but do you seriously think Kayneth would be? The man's devoted to Sola-Ui, is everyone in modern society conveniently bi and completely open to the idea of casual sex all of a sudden? As for Kariya being raped by Berserker, that one fits, because the atmosphere was suitably rapey anyway and it wouldn't violate any relationship that we're shown since theirs doesn't really extend far beyond Kariya providing him with mana and Berserker occasionally doing what he says. |
|
| They killed Maiya..... :( |
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| I'm feeling sad for Irisviel..... |
| I like this episode, its full of dialogue but still interesting. Anyone notice the budget cut in the dialogue between Waver and Rider? They only shows Waver's face for a long time while Rider talks on and on. I also hope that the final episode will be made a 40 minute special (like the 1st eps) with big extension on the final fight. It has to be much more cooler than the fight in eps 4. |
 ~ IA- Aria on the Planetes ~ Vocaloid V3 voiced by LiA (Clannad Afterstory, Angel Beats! theme song singer) |
| A very solid episode that seemed to go by quite quickly. In terms of action-light episodes, I liked this one much better than Kirei's. |
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Leon-Gun said: LunarMoon said: I think you missed the point completely. By saying "this is Nasuverse" in response to Saber's entire story and thematic behind it we mean that Nasu DOES NOT, AT ANY POINT, gives up Saber's main story over to Gen. Saber is Nasu's creation and what he wrote for her stays no matter how much Gen would love to break her. Nasu wrote a story of redemption and glorification for her and that's what ultimately remains. In the end she even travels to Avalon as a reward, if that's not an embelishment for her life of idealism, then nothing is. Nasu also glorified Shirou's ideals in Fate no matter the route he took. So, you can say whatever you want about Gen doing this and that to Lancer and Berserker and so on but Saber's story is ultimately defined by her reward in Fate/Stay Night. Her tribulations in Zero were rewarded in Stay Night by a Master that treated her as just a person (not as a King, Knight or Servant) and the knwoledge that she didn't fail her country, that she did all she could and no one could blame her for being human and making mistakes.Gen is ultimately the author, which is why it's stylistically different from Fate/Stay Night and why many people view Fate/Zero as a Urobuchi work, more so than a Nasu work. Thus why there are people who hate Nasu and love Fate/Zero. Leon-Gun, Saber's honor wasn't even a major characterization point for Saber in Fate/Stay Night. Gen introduced it in Zero so he could take it apart. |
LunarMoonMay 20, 2012 10:01 AM
| ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Change, change the form of man. Free the might from fleshy mire. Boil the blood in heart of fire. Gone, gone the form of man. Rise the demon, Etrigan! |
wishbook said: Indeed. I'd rather have a 40 minute long finale, than two regular length episodes. I think it would have more impact that way. I've been anticipating ufotable to announce another long episode... But in the end, it's just wishful thinking on my part.I also hope that the final episode will be made a 40 minute special (like the 1st eps) with big extension on the final fight. |
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| Do Kiritsugu and Maiya have a secret romantic relationship? I rememebered Maiya ksising Kiritsugu in one of the earlier episodes too, and now this episode seeing Maiya caressing Kiritsugu and told him to save the tears for Iri instead is like...huh??? |
Moron said: Do Kiritsugu and Maiya have a secret romantic relationship? Thess said: Since many others asked. Fate/Zero Material page 102: "For Kiritsugu the sacrificing of his wife for the completion of the Holy Grail would be a "betrayal of his wife's love", no matter what anyone said, so he needed to be able to commit that betrayal without hesitation. His physical relationship with Maiya was practice of betrayal for him, and a form of self-harm in order to strenghten himself. As an excuse for adultery it's pretty low, but because Maiya herself had no problem with it it became a negative spiral. Shirou should not learn anything about women from this Dad." |
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| Why must some poor woman or other die tragically at the end of every episode? I'm becoming increasingly depressed! But a good episode nonetheless. I guess it's depression in a good way. I'm feeling the emotions. :) |
curiouser and curiouser :) |
| back to the story. Iri-chan is on bad news bears without the avalon. Alexander recovered much faster than i though but he probably won't be 100% for the fight next episode. looks like there will be a round table reunion soon. |
| My Guitar Covers: Playlist I CAN ALWAYS SHOW MY EVERYTHING TO YOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOUUUU |
Topgunuk69 said: Well it depends on what you're saying there. I mean Rider and Caster being willing to have sex with their masters fits with the historical figures they represent (as does Caster's raping little boys) but the idea that they were having sex with them doesn't fit with the Master's characters or the character relationships we're shown. The one ufotable referred many times as couples? Mmm. Even Takeuchi says that Team Cool are married. Meanwhile, Waver and Rider are the Shirou and Saber in Fate/Zero. Official manga symbolism to make it even clearer. I'll spoil the rest since it's off topic-ish. |
ThessMay 20, 2012 12:57 PM
stAtic91 said: Selesnija said: It's obviously Hassan. Even the title of the episode is "Return of the Assassin..."They did a fucking good job at fleshing out the characters. Thus, everyone should know that this was not Rider, for he would not use kidnapping as a means to win. LOL ^ Thess said: Since many others asked. Fate/Zero Material page 102: "For Kiritsugu the sacrificing of his wife for the completion of the Holy Grail would be a "betrayal of his wife's love", no matter what anyone said, so he needed to be able to commit that betrayal without hesitation. His physical relationship with Maiya was practice of betrayal for him, and a form of self-harm in order to strenghten himself. As an excuse for adultery it's pretty low, but because Maiya herself had no problem with it it became a negative spiral. Shirou should not learn anything about women from this Dad." Wow to think Kiritsugu would go so far to do this...just wow. I dont know if I should be pissed about this or if I should be amazed by this. The last sentence made me LOL so hard. It kind of ruined the seriousness of the whole paragraph xD; |
| Nice moment with berserker |
| Maiya ;_; |
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| Well... can't wait for the next episode. |
 |
| It was strange that Iris didn't die after that talk with Kiritsugu, totally seemed like farewell and why the hell didn't he take her in his arms. Man cries at the end again, his life is so fucked up, everyone around him dies. Berserker was awesome but I don't like how little screen time he and Kariya had so far. Someone needs to kill Zouken NOW, bastard doing all that shit to Sakura and Kariya. Rider is my favorite servant, I like to hear him talk and he is strong as hell. No way he was that at the end, though. Maiya's death sucked, don't make her die in some shitty storehouse, almost eveyone who died so far didn't deserve their respective deaths in my opinion, the worst one was Lancer, I will never forget that. |
Zhou said: It was strange that Iris didn't die after that talk with Kiritsugu, totally seemed like farewell and why the hell didn't he take her in his arms. Man cries at the end again, his life is so fucked up, everyone around him dies. Berserker was awesome but I don't like how little screen time he and Kariya had so far. Someone needs to kill Zouken NOW, bastard doing all that shit to Sakura and Kariya. Rider is my favorite servant, I like to hear him talk and he is strong as hell. No way he was that at the end, though. Maiya's death sucked, don't make her die in some shitty storehouse, almost eveyone who died so far didn't deserve their respective deaths in my opinion, the worst one was Lancer, I will never forget that. Meh, I think that Maiya was content about her death. What do you think would have been better - for her to die on some glorious battlefield? Given that she was broken as a result of being forced into fighting wars as a child, I think that dying in a shed with the only person who accepted her holding her is a bit better. |
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Thess said: Topgunuk69 said: Well it depends on what you're saying there. I mean Rider and Caster being willing to have sex with their masters fits with the historical figures they represent (as does Caster's raping little boys) but the idea that they were having sex with them doesn't fit with the Master's characters or the character relationships we're shown. The one ufotable referred many times as couples? Mmm. Even Takeuchi says that Team Cool are married. Meanwhile, Waver and Rider are the Shirou and Saber in Fate/Zero. Official manga symbolism to make it even clearer. I'll spoil the rest since it's off topic-ish. Judging from the amount of mana needed for each servant and spent, Kirei and Gil : very likely. they certainly can't get that much prana to maintain Gil's form for a whole ten years only by kidnapping victims and draining out their prana (the victims are all normal humans with low amount of prana). With the grail still recovering from the last war, the prana cost should all goes to Kirei. Even with Independent Action active, to use Enuma Elish repeatedly should consume a lot of prana. Saber and Iri : unlikely. unlike Sola-Ui whose purpose is to supply prana to Lancer, Irisviel needs every prana she could spare to survive until the end of the war. Sharing prana with Saber isn't the best option out there. At worst she could die before the war ends. Iskander and Waver : likely, since there's no way Gen wrote the LN without prior research regarding the historical characters. There's gotta be a reason on why he is paired with Waver Velvet. At first I thought that it is 100% platonic, but after Rider said that Waver's magic circuit has gotten better than before (plus the dream scene which is similar to Shirou's case) it make me wonder to some extent... Berserker and Kariya : very likely. that symbolic scene has been used over and over again in FSN. Caster and Ryuunosuke : 50-50. Ryuunosuke is not a proper magus, so that's the only way to supply Caster with enough prana to use his NP. But maybe Caster got his prana from the kidnapped children. Maybe he doesn't even need any supply of prana to use his NP, since he is a Caster who naturally has large amounts of prana. |
Reim_SeranthMay 20, 2012 11:19 PM
~ IA- Aria on the Planetes ~ Vocaloid V3 voiced by LiA (Clannad Afterstory, Angel Beats! theme song singer) |
wishbook said: Kirei and Gil : very likely. they certainly can't get that much prana to maintain Gil's form for a whole ten years only by kidnapping victims and draining out their prana (the victims are all normal humans with low amount of prana). With the grail still recovering from the last war, the prana cost should all goes to Kirei. Even with Independent Action active, to use Enuma Elish repeatedly should consume a lot of prana. Nope, there is no need for that since so even if he lost all his mana he wouldn't disappear. "Batteries" were pretty much only to make sure he doesn't run out of prana during War and can swordspam people to death. That and quite a lot of For the Evulz thrown in. |
| Hahah wow, this spawned serious conversation? Ok... Fate/Zero erotic cut. Wat. |
ThessMay 21, 2012 2:17 AM
| ITT: sex Carry on please I'm enjoying this. Better than F/Z threads in /a/ and we all know how that board is. |
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