Nakama power

IntroverTurtle said:
It's fine, just another theme. It matters how a series uses it.

I do not like it when it's being used to solve every fight though and it sorta comes out of nowhere(a couple of times is fine) and when it is the main character's reasoning for doing everything in the story(like Bleach).

Danpmss said:


Lol, Bleach has more fights involving secondary main (if that exists :v) characters than any series I ever watched. Ichigo didn't appeared for like... 35 episodes straight.

IntroverTurtle said:
It's fine, just another theme. It matters how a series uses it.

I do not like it when it's being used to solve every fight though and it sorta comes out of nowhere(a couple of times is fine) and when it is the main character's reasoning for doing everything in the story(like Bleach).

IntroverTurtle said:
That's not what I'm talking about at all. I'm talking about Ichigo's motive. For every arc, for every action he takes, it's for his friends or family.



In between arcs when someone hasn't been kidnapped he's normal and only takes action once their safety is threatened.

Danpmss said:


And what is exactly the problem?

IntroverTurtle said:
That I don't like it when the main character has only one motivation for all of his actions. What's the problem with me having a problem with it?

parfaited said:
people that hate on this are just sour that they don't have any dependable nakama power of their own

tsudecimo said:

But you hate on Fairy Tail...

parfaited said:

Ah, but my hate is a general hatred and not a hate toward their use of nakama power.

Danpmss said:
=None, you are free to dislike whatever you want.
Ichigo is "the first to protect" (nihongo pun time), as stated in the manga, so is kinda his way of being who he is (he just want to protect those he love). I don't dislike it as long as he use his motivations for good things.

IntroverTurtle said:
Ok then.

I don't have a problem with him having that motivation. It's that that's his only motivation. I want the main character in a long arc based show to not only have one motivation at all time. Even Natsu has wanting to find Igneel.

tsudecimo said:
I was actually making a point about his double standards with Berserk and Attack on Titan, you are just yet again pointlessly shit posting about one piece, either that or failing at defending your beloved series.

Danpmss said:


But what would he seek, man? Be the best Shinigami that no one ever was? Find the legendary treasure of the Soul King? His secondary objective of discovering what he is exactly was already accomplished, so I can't see what's wrong with just wanting a pacific life (and fighting when necessary) and protecting the ones he love (he seems like Kenshin from Rurouni Kenshin, except he is not seeking redemption for his cruel killings).

Higashi_no_Kaze said:


They could have at least made him enjoy a good, competitive fight like Goku or Yusuke. That would have already made him a lot less boring to watch.

Danpmss said:


Well, those two LOVE (with caps, LOVE) to fight though, and for a very good reason (Saiyan and Youkai bloodlines). And from what I know, Ichigo was never a guy who likes to fight (every single fight he was in was either to protect someone, or to destroy the evil or to defend himself).

Danpmss said:
But what would he seek, man? Be the best Shinigami that no one ever was? Find the legendary treasure of the Soul King? His secondary objective of discovering what he is exactly was already accomplished, so I can't see what's wrong with just wanting a pacific life (and fighting when necessary) and protecting the ones he love (he seems like Kenshin from Rurouni Kenshin, except he is not seeking redemption for his cruel killings).

IntroverTurtle said:
That's not what I'm talking about at all. I'm talking about Ichigo's motive. For every arc, for every action he takes, it's for his friends or family.



In between arcs when someone hasn't been kidnapped he's normal and only takes action once their safety is threatened.

Drunk_Samurai said:
Uh he only came back because she healed him. Not because she called to him.

Higashi_no_Kaze said:


That's what I'm saying. From the start Ichigo was bland, unmotivated and not very interesting at all. That could have been prevented with the easiest method of making him enjoy fighting like his predecessors, bu Kubo just didn't care to give him any attributes or goals in life.
Bleach generally does this to the more important characters, the more interesting they are the less airtime they have (for example Toshiro, the blandest of all captains is the one that appears all the time while the more intriguing ones pop up once in a while at best, and let's not even mention the Vizards here).
The problem is that when the MC has no motivation or goal every arc makes a fitting ending and the series can only continue if new, random threats pop out of nowhere (otherwise he'd just chill and go to school) and that makes the arcs feel very isolated from each other and also gives off the feeling that Kubo is just making it up as he goes and never had any sort of long-term plan for the series, which is about the worst thing that can be said about a battle shounen imo.

Danpmss said:


But you gave a 9 for Kenshin, and it make use from the same concept (except for the fact that Kenshin is the main attraction, and not the secondary cast), dude o.O

I don't really think this is the worse thing in a shonen manga, is more like a trope (I'm sure I read that somewhere in TVtropes).

sullynathan said:
Is there anime that does reverse nakama power? in which where if your comrades help you lose. Also is there any anime in which the enemy, antagonist or villain gets nakama powerup.

Higashi_no_Kaze said:


Tentai Senshi Sunred kinda has both, but not in a serious way. The 'hero' is usually alone and the 'bad guys' are like this big and loving family who support each other etc.. They also always lose in a flash despite motivation speeches on some occasions, and other stuff.

IntroverTurtle said:
Idk, that's something only Kubo could decide. I can't just change the whole setting or his goals. There's a myriad of different motives he can have, all not some big goal like being the hokage or whatever so don't only put it down that road. They can have to do with his personality, maybe other things that happen to him while he was saving people, etc. Kenshin seeks redemption, Luffy adventures, freedom, and becoming the pirate king, Naruto seeks acceptance, family, sakura, etc. At least Kenshin has a good reason to do it and I believe he had motives other than just protecting people during the show IIRC. And that discovering what he was objective sounds like it was a small one.

And the problem is it's boring and repetitive. Magnify that where the two largest arcs in the anime are saving a female character who was technically kidnapped/went along by choice and is trapped in another world in a tall building.

Higashi_no_Kaze said:


I don't think Ichigo is part of the secondary cast so I don't know what you're talking about. Just because Kubo's character writing in general isn't very exciting except for some side characters that rarely appeal, doesn't make the issues with Ichigo disappear.

Not planning ahead is a trope now? Okay.

And Kenshin has the mystery and links to his past to keep the reader interested and it also connects the whole story from start to finish. Plus there are plenty of other aspects that make it more interesting, like the historical setting which is well-used etc...

Higashi_no_Kaze said:
That's what I'm saying. From the start Ichigo was bland, unmotivated and not very interesting at all. That could have been prevented with the easiest method of making him enjoy fighting like his predecessors, bu Kubo just didn't care to give him any attributes or goals in life.
Bleach generally does this to the more important characters, the more interesting they are the less airtime they have (for example Toshiro, the blandest of all captains is the one that appears all the time while the more intriguing ones pop up once in a while at best, and let's not even mention the Vizards here).
The problem is that when the MC has no motivation or goal every arc makes a fitting ending and the series can only continue if new, random threats pop out of nowhere (otherwise he'd just chill and go to school) and that makes the arcs feel very isolated from each other and also gives off the feeling that Kubo is just making it up as he goes and never had any sort of long-term plan for the series, which is about the worst thing that can be said about a battle shounen imo.

parfaited said:
people that hate on this are just sour that they don't have any dependable nakama power of their own

Ryukatsuka said:
Because Ichigo's purpose as the main character is to be the 'normal' middle man and make the oddities of the Bleachverse stand out that much more.

Ryukatsuka said:
Toshiro is focused upon most of the time because developing him is actually plot constructive.

Ryukatsuka said:
Ichigo however, lives the life of an average, modern world teenager. Aside from his role as a substitute Shinigami, Ichigo's life is pretty normal . The only goal that he might have, is the one most people in real life may have; get good grades in school, so you can lead a successful life/future.

kanno_ said:
There's a difference between 'normal' and uninteresting.
Not because of the immense popularity he got?
Pretty sure he was talking about plot goal, not his long term goal in life. What are you talking about? You can make up excuse as much as you want but character without solid goal (and motivation) is pretty much lacking, that's common sense in writing. Unless Bleach is a slice of life story of Ichigo-chan's daily fighting.

Ryukatsuka said:

Okashi--chan said:
To encourage Weeaboos to leave their houses, find friends and be productive.

Ryukatsuka said:
And Ichigo is interesting enough.

Ryukatsuka said:
Toshiro's popularity is just an added bonus. As a character, he has the most potential both in fighting prowess as well as character development. That much has been made quite clear already in the story.

Ryukatsuka said:
You can dismiss them as mere excuses, but as points they'll continue to stand unless you refute them with evidence in line with the story. And cease with that 'no solid plot goal' garbage already. Just because he doesn't have an overused and absurd "I'm going to become the strongest/conquer the world/surpass the greatest" kinda goal doesn't mean he should be derided in favor of his more cliche Shounen counterparts. His desire to protect a mountain of people and to that end subconsciously crave more power and seek enough battles even going so far as to want to control the power of his hollow self freely is sufficient enough of a plot goal in accordance with Bleach's story.

Extreme3708 said:
One Piece does not have the nakama power bullshit.

In One Piece the strongest always win. Luffy unlike natsu has never pulled a powerup out of his anus.