Mikasa said: if his power were to be as we described it. It took me a lot of searching, but I finally found the problem: You made up your own version of the ability. You can thank me later ;) On a serious note though, don't you ever get tired of this? It took a single sentence of your gibberish to destroy your entire essay. |
| "Let Justice Be Done!" My Theme Fight again, fight again for justice! |
| Mod Note: I've removed a lot of the off-topic chat about "Will you/won't you post a plot hole, and added a Spoiler warning to the Thread Title. Discussing plot holes always treads pretty close to posting spoilers, but since I don't follow OP I don't know which points are spoilers. If you think something that has already been posted should be tagged, please report it. If you're posting something that is probably a spoiler please take the five seconds to tag it. |
Please don't feed the trolls! In my next life I want to collide at the corner with the cute transfer student carrying a piece of toast in her mouth...rodac |
RedRoseFring said: Agafin said: 9/10. Now you can "Smiiile againnn!!! Thank you ;-) On a more serious note, I think that you should stop with this stuff, I don’t know what problem you have with me but if you consider me to be a troll, you can always ignore me. Believe it or not I like One piece very much but this thread asked about our opinions on current one piece compared to the previous one so I gave mine which was mainly made of negative points because I like it less than before. Of course if I’m asked to tell my general opinion or the things I like about it then I will. I know that One piece being a popular series is a magnet to troll/haters but discarding someone’s opinion just because he/she criticizes something in One piece is not the thing to do but makes you look like a fanboy( I’m not saying that you are one but judging from your arguments in the thread about One piece’s rank, I’m not the only one to whom you do this and you even called someone immature there). Also, the sarcastic/superior/condescending tone you use is not the best for discussion. If you are still bitter about that hiatus discussion then I think I already apologized for it. Rather than throwing baits everywhere, I believe the right thing to do would be to either counter my points if you believe they are wrong, acknowledge their truth if you can’t disprove them or completely ignore them if you believe I’m trolling. That’s what I would do. But of course you are not me and so you can do as you please. |
Dahaka_ said: Agafin said: When people try to list One Piece plotholes and all they can come up with is this petty stuff - it really makes me proud of Oda. - So… you agree that they are plot holes? - You being proud of Oda is normal since he created your favorite anime/manga. However, if the reason for that is the smaller number of plot holes then I can definitely not share that sentiment due to the way the one piece world is designed. There are absolutely no rules in one piece. Any thing that looks like that would be changed whenever the plot demands it. For example, the laws of the devil fruit have been changed so many times I wouldn’t even be surprised if at one point Oda introduces a user that can swim. Also, One piece uses the trope called nonesensoleum which makes things that would have otherwise be plot holes as just bullshit like Usopp taking a 4 ton hit without dying despite his low durability. This greatly cheapens it in my opinion. Let me ask you this question: You have two manga, the first one has very strict rules and takes itself seriously by limiting gag feats for comedy purposes only and you discover that it has 1000+ chapters and only about 10 plot holes. Would you be amazed? I certainly would. The second one is about a sleeping boy and takes place in his dream. He has to find a way to wake up and that is the goal of the story. Given that this story takes place in a dream, you can have houses dancing and singing, clouds being made of popcorn, cars moving upside down etc and none of these would be a plot hole because, well it’s a dream. You then discover that it has only two plot holes after 1000+ chapters. Would you be amazed? I definitely wouldn’t. The first is an analogy to Naruto and the second to One piece. That’s why I consider that Kishi gets too much undeserved criticism/hate for his plot holes compared to Oda since his world is more complex and serious, hence more prone to plot holes even with the same amount of effort.(There aren’t even so many to begin with, just haters inflating the numbers) - Sanji is a crew member and so a plot hole involving his power is not what I would call “petty”. By that logic you may just consider any plot hole petty. Maybe that’s what you do with One piece anyway. - The fact that Oda always tries to hand wave these issues/plot holes in interviews/SBS shows that he definitely doesn’t minimize them( like in the mr 3’s example above). At least, it shows that he cares for his work/fans which is indeed something to be proud of. |
Drunk_Samurai said: Agafin said: 1) Mistranslation. 2) Mistranslation. 3) Just because somebody survived something that they should have died from does not make it a plot hole. That's ridiculous. 4) http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/Kuuigosu 5) Not even close to being a plot hole. 6) Same as above. 1 and 2 are mistranslations? Hmmm I would have to check them back, I’m sure the Sanji one is also in the anime as well. 3- The fact that it doesn’t have an explanation shows that it is a plot hole. It makes no sense for a fodder character to survive a nuke. 4- The wiki source you linked clearly states that the wood was not visible. The fact that the kuusoigu or however it’s spelled never existed in the show before shows that it was retconned. That’s why the anime version included a table iirc. If you see a df user swimming, it is a plot hole. Even if 500 chapters later Oda says it is possible for some to swim, it just means he hand waved/retconned but it’s still a plot hole. The same applies here. Anyway, the explanation was pretty funny so I would let that slide. 5- The power doesn’t make sense within the OP world so I think it’s a plot hole. How does Sanji’s leg not burn? If the fire is caused by friction due to high speeds, why does luffy not ignite as well since he’s faster and hence should have more friction exerted on him. 6- It’s a minor one but I honestly can’t think of an explanation. So unless otherwise proved it’s a… plot hole. So, I agree with your explanations of 2 and 4(kinda), I will check 1, 6 is somewhat insignificant . 3 and 5 are still hanging though. I have a couple others if you have the time to disprove them for me: 7- The devil fruit users are weakened by sea stones and generally anything that has to do with sea. Even sea salt has been shown to weaken them since in Thriller bark when salt is thrown into zombie’s mouth, the shadow moving the corpse is detached and the zombie is purified hence nullifying the devil fruit power of Moria. My problem is how can Luffy and other devil fruit users consume food stuffs containing salt and not be weakened? If this is really a plot hole, then it’s arguably the biggest one alongside Pell since enemies could easily use this weakness against/to poison them but not only do they not use it, it also never weakens devil fruit users. I even remember Sanji specifically using it in one of their meals and Luffy complemented him that it tastes better. So what am I missing here? 8- How did Akainu defeat Ace? Lava can’t do any thing to fire. Are lava and fire in One piece different from our world? If yes, source please. 9- This is not a plot hole but something that I don’t understand. What did Shanks use against the sea king in chapter one? I always thougt it was the death glare trope like what Zoro used to do to fodders back then but I hear a lot of people saying it was haki. My questions are: if it was haki why didn’t Shanks use it to knock down those villains back then? I know he said to WB that he offered his hand to the sea king as a bet on the new generation but even before that he could have prevented that incident from happening. He was surprised when that pirate flew with Luffy and not using it could have cost Luffy’s life. Also, if it’s haki, then what type of Haki is it? People say that it is CoC but conqueror haki ‘s power is to knock out enemies and has never been shown to make them run away like it did to that sea king. So is there any part of the manga where it’s specifically said to be haki or is it just a fan made theory? An unknown type of haki? Or a simple death glare? http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PlotHole |
| 7. Kairoseki is a 'special' mineral stone that contains the power of sea to weaken the devil fruit power. and it's not like Salt or Sea Water literally weaken DF user, they're only weakened If the lower half of the body is inside the water. 8. Haki. 9. it's Haki, the same feature that always occur on people that under effect of HH is either they're sweating out of fear or Pass Out or sometime both. |
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tr1ckst3r said: 7. Kairoseki is a 'special' mineral stone that contains the power of sea to weaken the devil fruit power. and it's not like Salt or Sea Water literally weaken DF user, they're only weakened If the lower half of the body is inside the water. Yes, with sea water you need to be half immersed but that is not the case with sea stone and salt from the example I mentioned as well as others ( like the fact that df users can only use sea stone weapons if they are not in contact with the part of the weapon that has the sea stone) 8. Haki. ??? 9. it's Haki, the same feature that always occur on people that under effect of HH is either they're sweating out of fear or Pass Out or sometime both. Which type of haki is it then? |
| Armament Haki, the one that able people to touch Logia Type DF user. |
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| ^What he said. #7 was only a weakness for the zombies, not a Devil Fruit users weakness. I don't even know how you could have gotten that idea. Btw that salt thing was anime filler. Shanks was said to have Conquerer's Haki anyway. |
tr1ckst3r said: Not only that but DFs themselves have their own weaknesses and strengths against the others.Armament Haki, the one that able people to touch Logia Type DF user. "As noted by Crocodile, there is no way to tell how Devil Fruit powers will fare when pitted against one other.[11] A Devil Fruit user who normally dominates all other powers can sometimes be brought down by a power considered "weak" in comparison; one such example is the Gomu Gomu no Mi unexpectedly withstanding the Goro Goro no Mi's powers, the Doru Doru no Mi unexpectedly holding back the Doku Doku no Mi's powers and Akainu's Magu Magu no Mi dealing a fatal blow to Ace despite his Mera Mera no Mi due to an order of superiority. Another surprise also came when the Mera Mera no Mi clashed against the Moku Moku no Mi, equalizing with each other, and then later against the Hie Hie no Mi with the same results. " http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/Devil_Fruit |
     Short of the day: Monotonous Purgatory(MAL) ✰Public Domain Club | One Piece Club✰ |
tr1ckst3r said: Armament Haki, the one that able people to touch Logia Type DF user. Drunk_Samurai said: Shanks was said to have Conquerer's Haki anyway. You people are really confusing me now. I think I would have to rewatch One piece some time in the future |
Drunk_Samurai said: ^What he said. #7 was only a weakness for the zombies, not a Devil Fruit users weakness. I don't even know how you could have gotten that idea.. http://www.mangapanda.com/103-2563-6/one-piece/chapter-456.html http://www.mangareader.net/103-2563-6/one-piece/chapter-456.html Now you can't use the mistranslation card. Brook said: The source of the zombie's ability is originally the devil's fruit. Since the salt holds the power of the sea it undoes the bond between the false soul and the corpse. I don't think there are two ways of interpreting that statement. The bolded parts clearly show that salt works because it has the power of the sea and hence nullifies the devil fruit power. Luffy, Ace, other fruit users should also be affected by it when they consume it.. |
Agafin said: Drunk_Samurai said: ^What he said. #7 was only a weakness for the zombies, not a Devil Fruit users weakness. I don't even know how you could have gotten that idea.. http://www.mangapanda.com/103-2563-6/one-piece/chapter-456.html http://www.mangareader.net/103-2563-6/one-piece/chapter-456.html Now you can't use the mistranslation card. Brook said: The source of the zombie's ability is originally the devil's fruit. Since the salt holds the power of the sea it undoes the bond between the false soul and the corpse. I don't think there are two ways of interpreting that statement. The bolded parts clearly show that salt works because it has the power of the sea and hence nullifies the devil fruit power. Luffy, Ace, other fruit users should also be affected by it when they consume it.. man you're answering you're own question, there's not even one bit of word that implies salt can weakening DF user, it's just said that Salt hold the power of the sea than can undo the bond between false soul and corpse. and stop analyzing obvious thing too hard since Franky already said it's just like purifying evil spirit in this is the implementation of it. Remember every DF power is unique in its own way depend on how one use it's power. |
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Agafin said: You have two manga, the first one has very strict rules and takes itself seriously by limiting gag feats for comedy purposes only and you discover that it has 1000+ chapters and only about 10 plot holes. Would you be amazed? I certainly would. The second one is about a sleeping boy and takes place in his dream. He has to find a way to wake up and that is the goal of the story. Given that this story takes place in a dream, you can have houses dancing and singing, clouds being made of popcorn, cars moving upside down etc and none of these would be a plot hole because, well it’s a dream. You then discover that it has only two plot holes after 1000+ chapters. Would you be amazed? I definitely wouldn’t. The first is an analogy to Naruto and the second to One piece. That’s why I consider that Kishi gets too much undeserved criticism/hate for his plot holes compared to Oda since his world is more complex and serious, hence more prone to plot holes even with the same amount of effort.(There aren’t even so many to begin with, just haters inflating the numbers. I don't even know how I missed this post. What you described for the first one sounds way more like Naruto than One Piece. Besides that Kishimoto deserves hate for his plot holes. They actually directly effect the plot of Naruto. Like Sasuke being able to summon Manda when he was fucking flat out stated to be out of chakra. Agafin said: tr1ckst3r said: Armament Haki, the one that able people to touch Logia Type DF user. Drunk_Samurai said: Shanks was said to have Conquerer's Haki anyway. You people are really confusing me now. I think I would have to rewatch One piece some time in the future Read the Marineford arc again. When Luffy used his they said that Whitebeard and Shanks both had it. Agafin said: Drunk_Samurai said: ^What he said. #7 was only a weakness for the zombies, not a Devil Fruit users weakness. I don't even know how you could have gotten that idea.. http://www.mangapanda.com/103-2563-6/one-piece/chapter-456.html http://www.mangareader.net/103-2563-6/one-piece/chapter-456.html Now you can't use the mistranslation card. Brook said: The source of the zombie's ability is originally the devil's fruit. Since the salt holds the power of the sea it undoes the bond between the false soul and the corpse. I don't think there are two ways of interpreting that statement. The bolded parts clearly show that salt works because it has the power of the sea and hence nullifies the devil fruit power. Luffy, Ace, other fruit users should also be affected by it when they consume it.. I said the other two were mistranslations. That's just inaccurate though as what tr1ckst3r said. It only applies to Moria's zombies. |
Drunk_Samurai said: Agafin said: http://www.mangapanda.com/103-2563-6/one-piece/chapter-456.html http://www.mangareader.net/103-2563-6/one-piece/chapter-456.html Now you can't use the mistranslation card. Brook said: The source of the zombie's ability is originally the devil's fruit. Since the salt holds the power of the sea it undoes the bond between the false soul and the corpse. I don't think there are two ways of interpreting that statement. The bolded parts clearly show that salt works because it has the power of the sea and hence nullifies the devil fruit power. Luffy, Ace, other fruit users should also be affected by it when they consume it.. I said the other two were mistranslations. That's just inaccurate though as what tr1ckst3r said. It only applies to Moria's zombies. The thing with the salt is one of two things: - That is Brook conclusion and he his completely wrong. Being that made purposely. Note how is only shown as a theory and not an absolute truth. By the time we get to Vegapunk all of that must be explained. Salt only works with Moria, and salt being used to defeat evil and Zombies is a real world Myth. It would make a lot more sense if it had to do with Moria Devil fruit weakness and nothing as general as devil's fruit weakness. Just like water is Crocodile weakness. - Brook is partially correct. Not every salt is originated at sea. So only "Sea Salt" works in Moria zombies. They were lucky that Moria kitchen had sea salt. Moria and/or his underlings are stupid for having sea salt in the ship. |
bigivelfhqSep 21, 2014 12:01 PM
| The "fairies" had the same objective as the Straw Hats so what's the matter? shimolis said: But I bet that Luffy will give the Flare Flare fruit to Rebecca, which will be disappointing This is why people should read the manga, I'm not even going to bother myself replying cuz this is not worth it. This is what I find disappointing. One Piece is still the same One Piece we've always watched. |
| I enjoyed One Piece more before every arc had to be super long. For instance I loved East Blue One Piece and pre Albasta. Of course the long arcs are amazing too, I just think the show needs to fit in a couple smaller arcs here and there, for example the smaller arcs before Alabasta. Time-Skip One Piece is pretteh good. I'm not getting the same emotions and nostalgia feel but its good nonetheless. I do not like Nami, Chopper, and Robin's new character designs. Robin's is incredibly generic, Nami looks like a slut, and Chopper needs to stop getting damn smaller and cuter. Am I the only one who enjoyed Chopper's old fugly look? |
| Previously: BlueXRam |
| I think that old one piece was better, but it has nothing to do with the characters and plot it is just that the pacing of the episodes has been rubbish since Punk Hazard, they need to take a hiatus or something to allow the Manga to get some new material. |
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TheRealDeal51 said: I think that old one piece was better, but it has nothing to do with the characters and plot it is just that the pacing of the episodes has been rubbish since Punk Hazard, they need to take a hiatus or something to allow the Manga to get some new material. Or a decent long filler arc. |
| Previously: BlueXRam |
| Man, this thread is so off topic lol. Anyway, sorry for the late reply. tr1ckst3r said: Agafin said: [/spoiler][spoiler] http://www.mangapanda.com/103-2563-6/one-piece/chapter-456.html http://www.mangareader.net/103-2563-6/one-piece/chapter-456.html Now you can't use the mistranslation card. Brook said: The source of the zombie's ability is originally the devil's fruit. Since the salt holds the power of the sea it undoes the bond between the false soul and the corpse. I don't think there are two ways of interpreting that statement. The bolded parts clearly show that salt works because it has the power of the sea and hence nullifies the devil fruit power. Luffy, Ace, other fruit users should also be affected by it when they consume it.. man you're answering you're own question, there's not even one bit of word that implies salt can weakening DF user, it's just said that Salt hold the power of the sea than can undo the bond between false soul and corpse. and stop analyzing obvious thing too hard since Franky already said it's just like purifying evil spirit in this is the implementation of it. Remember every DF power is unique in its own way depend on how one use it's power. Isn't the power of the sea what weakens devil fruit users? Sea water weakens them because it has this power, same as Karioseki since it's said to have the same "wavelength as the sea". Yes, there are different DF powers and in this case purifying the evil spirit=weakening devil fruit power. You don't expect Franky to say that it will prevent Luffy from stretching when he is talking abuot Moria, do you? I don't see what I'm overanalysing here. Brook didn't say that it works because they are zombies but because the source of the power is the devil fruit. He also said that it works because salt has the power of the sea not because "it's just magic" which is what you want me to believe. You are the one saying it works only on them without backing it up with up with canon evidence. That's pretty baseless. Maybe it's just me. Drunk_Samurai said: Agafin said: You have two manga, the first one has very strict rules and takes itself seriously by limiting gag feats for comedy purposes only and you discover that it has 1000+ chapters and only about 10 plot holes. Would you be amazed? I certainly would. The second one is about a sleeping boy and takes place in his dream. He has to find a way to wake up and that is the goal of the story. Given that this story takes place in a dream, you can have houses dancing and singing, clouds being made of popcorn, cars moving upside down etc and none of these would be a plot hole because, well it’s a dream. You then discover that it has only two plot holes after 1000+ chapters. Would you be amazed? I definitely wouldn’t. The first is an analogy to Naruto and the second to One piece. That’s why I consider that Kishi gets too much undeserved criticism/hate for his plot holes compared to Oda since his world is more complex and serious, hence more prone to plot holes even with the same amount of effort.(There aren’t even so many to begin with, just haters inflating the numbers. I don't even know how I missed this post. Lmao. Rereading my own post makes me laugh for some reason. It seems like I was pretty angry about something while writing that. Drunk_Samurai said: What you described for the first one sounds way more like Naruto than One Piece. It seems like you confused your words here. Did you intend to type that the first one sounds more like One piece? In which case I would ask what are those "strict rules" in One piece? Drunk_Samurai said: Besides that Kishimoto deserves hate for his plot holes. They actually directly effect the plot of Naruto. Like Sasuke being able to summon Manda when he was fucking flat out stated to be out of chakra. I agree with you that it was quite ridiculous but more because of the ridiculously short time Sasuke took to do all that. But that was kind of my point. One piece has just as ridiculous things ( like a FREAKING SKELETON being alive) but it is not absurd due to how the world is designed. That's the trope called "running on nonesenseolum". Now that I think about it, it takes some amount of cleverness to do that since in he made his world in such a way that nonesense makes sense. Props to him for that. Drunk_Samurai said: Agafin said: You people are really confusing me now. I think I would have to rewatch One piece some time in the future Read the Marineford arc again. When Luffy used his they said that Whitebeard and Shanks both had it. Another reason to read marineford? No way I can deny that lol. Thank you Drunk_Samurai said: Agafin said: http://www.mangapanda.com/103-2563-6/one-piece/chapter-456.html http://www.mangareader.net/103-2563-6/one-piece/chapter-456.html Now you can't use the mistranslation card. Brook said: The source of the zombie's ability is originally the devil's fruit. Since the salt holds the power of the sea it undoes the bond between the false soul and the corpse. I don't think there are two ways of interpreting that statement. The bolded parts clearly show that salt works because it has the power of the sea and hence nullifies the devil fruit power. Luffy, Ace, other fruit users should also be affected by it when they consume it.. I said the other two were mistranslations. That's just inaccurate though as what tr1ckst3r said. It only applies to Moria's zombies.[/spoiler] Read above. I have another small question ( not a plot hole). What do you think will happen if the dressrossa puppets are plunged in sea water? Since the source of their power is a df do you think they will cease action? bigivelfhq said: The thing with the salt is one of two things: - That is Brook conclusion and he his completely wrong. Being that made purposely. Note how is only shown as a theory and not an absolute truth. By the time we get to Vegapunk all of that must be explained. Salt only works with Moria, and salt being used to defeat evil and Zombies is a real world Myth. It would make a lot more sense if it had to do with Moria Devil fruit weakness and nothing as general as devil's fruit weakness. Just like water is Crocodile weakness. - Brook is partially correct. Not every salt is originated at sea. So only "Sea Salt" works in Moria zombies. They were lucky that Moria kitchen had sea salt. Moria and/or his underlings are stupid for having sea salt in the ship. Nice explanation. I am almost convinced except for three little things: 1- I know the myth about salt and zombies. However, assuming that the world of One piece has the same rules as our world is like assuming that they have the same laws of science which is of course wrong unless otherwise stated by the autor / in the manga. 2- An author can only make a character lie/ be wrong only if it serves a particular purpose. That arc is finished and what Brook said worked so it is true by default. By that logic of a character lying then we could say that Luffy swimming and using his power easily in the sea is not a plot hole because for all that we know the rules of devil fruits is wrong which as I stated above is simply a retcon and bad writing and doesn't prevent the plot hole fom being one if it has happened. 3- Luffy has eaten sea foods that should contain sea salt so that is still a moot point. Anyway, I will take your advice and from now on I will consider this a loophole rather than a plot hole until Dr Vegapunk's explanation if any. OT: Another thing that I like less about Post time skip One piece is the character designs. I prefer their previous ones :/ |
AgafinSep 23, 2014 7:03 AM
tr1ckst3r said: Armament Haki, the one that able people to touch Logia Type DF user. How does it even do that? It was kinda out of nowhere. |
| End Zionazism |
BlueXRam said: They should have just animate the damn cover pages every once in a while.TheRealDeal51 said: I think that old one piece was better, but it has nothing to do with the characters and plot it is just that the pacing of the episodes has been rubbish since Punk Hazard, they need to take a hiatus or something to allow the Manga to get some new material. Or a decent long filler arc. Mikasa said: Magic.tr1ckst3r said: Armament Haki, the one that able people to touch Logia Type DF user. How does it even do that? It was kinda out of nowhere. |
| Honobono Log - best slice of life short -------------------------------------------- most kawaii loli overlord ---------------------------- Donquixote Doflamingo AMV - Control |
ToG25thBaam said: BlueXRam said: They should have just animate the damn cover pages every once in a while.Or a decent long filler arc. Mikasa said: Magic.How does it even do that? It was kinda out of nowhere. No, it was explained! Haki is the will(Literally, Haki means will in Japanese), and with Armament Haki you hit directly at others "presence/will", even if their body isn't solid or has a strange quality about it, it doesn't matter to armament Haki that is a physical manifestation of Will. Is not that Haki is specifically made to fight against Devil Fruit powers, but in essence it doesn't cares what happens in the "material realm" so that advantage of devil fruits is nullified. Note it isn't only good to use Armament Haki to Logias, but also other types like Paramecia. Luffy is rubber and so attacks do a lot less damage than normally, but with Haki an attack makes the full damage. |
bigivelfhqSep 23, 2014 9:28 AM
Mikasa said: tr1ckst3r said: Armament Haki, the one that able people to touch Logia Type DF user. How does it even do that? It was kinda out of nowhere. it's already foreshadowed that there's actually a way to hurt Devil Fruit Power and it's Haki. Enies Lobby Arc, Garp punch Luffy and "it's Hurt" Sabaody Arc, Rayleigh stop Kizaru. Amazon Lily Arc, Snake Sister hurt Luffy using Haki. Marineford. Jozu and Marco use Haki to hit Aokiji and Kizaru, a Logia user. so yeah, it's out of nowhere. |
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tr1ckst3r said: You're forgetting possibly even Smoker and Dragon back in Logtown.Mikasa said: How does it even do that? It was kinda out of nowhere. it's already foreshadowed that there's actually a way to hurt Devil Fruit Power and it's Haki. Enies Lobby Arc, Garp punch Luffy and "it's Hurt" Sabaody Arc, Rayleigh stop Kizaru. Amazon Lily Arc, Snake Sister hurt Luffy using Haki. Marineford. Jozu and Marco use Haki to hit Aokiji and Kizaru, a Logia user. so yeah, it's out of nowhere. |
Short of the day: Monotonous Purgatory(MAL) ✰Public Domain Club | One Piece Club✰ |
IntroverTurtle said: tr1ckst3r said: You're forgetting possibly even Smoker and Dragon back in Logtown.it's already foreshadowed that there's actually a way to hurt Devil Fruit Power and it's Haki. Enies Lobby Arc, Garp punch Luffy and "it's Hurt" Sabaody Arc, Rayleigh stop Kizaru. Amazon Lily Arc, Snake Sister hurt Luffy using Haki. Marineford. Jozu and Marco use Haki to hit Aokiji and Kizaru, a Logia user. so yeah, it's out of nowhere. that one is still Arguably since Dragon just grab somker Jutte. I'm using the most obvious example to make it easier. |
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tr1ckst3r said: Mikasa said: How does it even do that? It was kinda out of nowhere. it's already foreshadowed that there's actually a way to hurt Devil Fruit Power and it's Haki. Enies Lobby Arc, Garp punch Luffy and "it's Hurt" Sabaody Arc, Rayleigh stop Kizaru. Amazon Lily Arc, Snake Sister hurt Luffy using Haki. Marineford. Jozu and Marco use Haki to hit Aokiji and Kizaru, a Logia user. so yeah, it's out of nowhere. 1- luffy isnt logia 2- silvers hitting kizaru isnt foreshadowing, it's the... Asspull? Itself. Uses afterward are the same.... Asspull? Being reused. |
| End Zionazism |
Mikasa said: tr1ckst3r said: it's already foreshadowed that there's actually a way to hurt Devil Fruit Power and it's Haki. Enies Lobby Arc, Garp punch Luffy and "it's Hurt" Sabaody Arc, Rayleigh stop Kizaru. Amazon Lily Arc, Snake Sister hurt Luffy using Haki. Marineford. Jozu and Marco use Haki to hit Aokiji and Kizaru, a Logia user. so yeah, it's out of nowhere. 1- luffy isnt logia 2- silvers hitting kizaru isnt foreshadowing, it's the... Asspull? Itself. Uses afterward are the same.... Asspull? Being reused. Yeah, One Piece is full of asspull, Devil Fruit is asspull, Grand Line is asspull, Pirate is asspull, everything is asspull in anime, the only thing that wasn't asspull is a Hunter and Nen right? yeah I know. |
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tr1ckst3r said: Mikasa said: 1- luffy isnt logia 2- silvers hitting kizaru isnt foreshadowing, it's the... Asspull? Itself. Uses afterward are the same.... Asspull? Being reused. Yeah, One Piece is full of asspull, Devil Fruit is asspull, Grand Line is asspull, Pirate is asspull, everything is asspull in anime, the only thing that wasn't asspull is a Hunter and Nen right? yeah I know. Good. You finally learned Mikasa's way of thinking. Now you won't bother anymore, will you? Sometimes the best course of action is to just ignore. |
| "Let Justice Be Done!" My Theme Fight again, fight again for justice! |
tr1ckst3r said: Mikasa said: 1- luffy isnt logia 2- silvers hitting kizaru isnt foreshadowing, it's the... Asspull? Itself. Uses afterward are the same.... Asspull? Being reused. Yeah, One Piece is full of asspull, Devil Fruit is asspull, Grand Line is asspull, Pirate is asspull, everything is asspull in anime, the only thing that wasn't asspull is a Hunter and Nen right? yeah I know. DF was asspull too? But you're right on the other ones. |
| End Zionazism |
| The skill of Armament Haki is to be able to hurt a DF owner with physical hits ignoring the protection/intangibility brought by their DF. Hitting Logia is the most clear and commented benefit simply because a permanent Paramecia like Luffy's is quite uncommon. |
| Thread cleaned This is a One Piece thread. If you want to talk about plot holes and senselessness in Naruto, do so in the appropriate board. Some of you were actively admitting to derailing the thread and yet continued to do so. Go back to talking about One Piece please. |
| That's not answering the question of how can it just counter it. Most likely Oda didn't really have a way to creatively handle the situation. |
| End Zionazism |
| People interested about Haki should read this post by one of the guys at AP Forums, it explains a the cultural basis of Haki and how it works in One Piece: Rayleigh explaining what Haki is. It exists within every single human being. "Presence"... "Spirit"... "Aura". It is no different from these basic concepts with which anyone should be familiar with. However, the vast majority of people go their whole lives without ever noticing they possess it... or else try as they might, never succeed in making use of it. To feel no doubt... that is true strength!!! If we took what Rayleigh said and the translation very literally - Haki is ALL "Presence", "Spirit" and "Aura". His explanation mentions that Observation Haki is "Presence" felt to an elevated degree. Sovereign/Conqueror Haki is the user's very "Spirit" manifest, but of course not everyone can do it. From there, I presume we can take that as Armanent Haki being the "Aura" that is something like wearing an invisible suit or armor.. and naturally stronger armor also results in more powerful attacks. In that 4th page, that was explaining Armanent Haki, when Luffy asked Rayleigh, if with it, he can attack Smoker or even Aokiji? - Rayleigh was silent. It might just be me but knowing what I know about Haki, I think he answered in silence to mean "That depends on you". --- This is the best explanation I know of Haki. The credits go to C.A. from Animesuki. This is the third or fourth time I'm quoting/crediting him/her but I'm just amazed how s/he tried to explain Haki and how much it matches with the way Oda portrays it, especially considering s/he wrote this back when the manga was only in Amazon Lily arc and so on. (Full thread here I only copied up to half of page 12) I just copied what was posted but organized it a bit and made it easier to read. I apologize in advanced for the length as well as any repeated statements and explanations. Introduction: Relations and Differences: Rarity: Sakki: Application and Growth: The breath of all things: I sincerely hope this helps your understanding of Haki and/or the series in general, as well as your future discussions and arguments. |
SuperRedSep 26, 2014 7:03 AM
| copy paste for life. |
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Mikasa said: That's not answering the question of how can it just counter it. Most likely Oda didn't really have a way to creatively handle the situation. You can't demand a show to answer a question it never aimed to answer. The why is the existence of a power that through an advanced state of concentration allows the user to create an armor; an armor that can pass through the DF power and reveal the tangible body of the user. Questioning why does this power exist is the same as questioning the basis of its worldbuilding and context, a treatment that not only this series but any piece of fiction doesn't deserve. |
IntroverTurtle said: That it's all the same One Piece. With more glorious fanservice. Oda da bess. |
| That is why I don't watch anime anymore. I really don't like how animation looks, for me the Enies Lobby animation was the best. Anime is now full of fillers (I mean filler situations, filler camrea rolling, filler running there and here) and it is really boring, and there is a lot of not so funny things which weren't in manga. They also alternate some things a bit. Yeah Fishmen arc wasn't the best even in manga but when I was watching it as anime I was awfully bored. So I watch some episodes just because of my favourite seiyuu's now not for the story because the anime is worser and worser. |
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-Klad- said: I thing those arcs are a disappointment more than being bad because we were expecting some great things after the TS and for the NW,I agree that those arcs are of the weakest in one piece,but they have some strong points about the future story and the progression of it; for example the vision of Luffy destroying FI,we got to know more about the ancient weapons,Noah and the introduction of two members of Big mom's crew or in PH about Kaido,what happend to Law,a little more insight on Vegapunk and maybe some stuff that I don't remember right now.What you said is really true. Pre-time skip OP was better than now. Many of you might counter this argument with the Dressrosa arc, which is really good and one of the best OP arcs, but you cannot judge the whole New World saga with just one arc. Think about the other two who were completely bad, in my opinion. Fishman arc and Punk hazard were one of the worst arcs in the series. So in the new world we have two bad arcs and one awesome arc. This is the exact reason why I think pre time skip OP is better. But nevertheless I hope that Oda shan't disappoint with the rest of arcs anymore. Anyway theso arcs have a weak story for the arc itself (not much interesting characters,the villains were average and etc.) but not as a whole for one piece. |
The_ClownPrince said: I know people mostly hate FI because it's boring mostly due to the history phase and PH because it was dragged out (which can't be helped, it did drag out). But yeah I pretty much agree with them being there to introduce a lot of things and serve as a foundation for when other things get introduced in the future. |
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jal90 said: Mikasa said: That's not answering the question of how can it just counter it. Most likely Oda didn't really have a way to creatively handle the situation. You can't demand a show to answer a question it never aimed to answer. The why is the existence of a power that through an advanced state of concentration allows the user to create an armor; an armor that can pass through the DF power and reveal the tangible body of the user. Questioning why does this power exist is the same as questioning the basis of its worldbuilding and context, a treatment that not only this series but any piece of fiction doesn't deserve. It's not up to the show to decide not to decide to answer somethin to be impervious to criticism. How does it just render the body tangible? |
| End Zionazism |
Mikasa said: jal90 said: You can't demand a show to answer a question it never aimed to answer. The why is the existence of a power that through an advanced state of concentration allows the user to create an armor; an armor that can pass through the DF power and reveal the tangible body of the user. Questioning why does this power exist is the same as questioning the basis of its worldbuilding and context, a treatment that not only this series but any piece of fiction doesn't deserve. It's not up to the show to decide not to decide to answer somethin to be impervious to criticism. How does it just render the body tangible? Do you know the thing called 'suspension of disbelief'? at this rate you'll ended up asking "where the hell did the Devil Fruit come from? how did it even exist? this is a plot hole hurr durr!" |
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Mikasa said: jal90 said: You can't demand a show to answer a question it never aimed to answer. The why is the existence of a power that through an advanced state of concentration allows the user to create an armor; an armor that can pass through the DF power and reveal the tangible body of the user. Questioning why does this power exist is the same as questioning the basis of its worldbuilding and context, a treatment that not only this series but any piece of fiction doesn't deserve. It's not up to the show to decide not to decide to answer somethin to be impervious to criticism. How does it just render the body tangible? It is likely that the intangibility of Logia users is only apparent, that is, that they hide their real body behind the powers of the DF; if a power of some sort is able to pass through the barrier of the DF, it would be able to hit the tangible body of the users. This would be how the Armament Haki works. A little different from seastone in the sense that it passes through (doesn't nullify) the DF powers. The rest is either asking for an explanation that is just not given yet for whatever narrative reasons (there have been hints about the nature of DFs through the series so it's likely that it is further treated later on, many people point at Vegapunk), or plain simply, trying to interpret the world of One Piece with rules that don't apply. The logic, and physics, and mechanisms of this world are not the same as the real ones. It is a fantasy that builds its own rules and therefore reduction to plausible science is not only impossible but misleading. This is where I focus my criticism towards your claims, and where tr1ckst3r talks about suspension of disbelief; knowing that it is an alternative reality that is consistant within and can't be properly explained in the way you are asking. And I say the same for every piece of fiction because every piece of fiction builds its own world and rules to a degree. |
jal90 said: Mikasa said: It's not up to the show to decide not to decide to answer somethin to be impervious to criticism. How does it just render the body tangible? It is likely that the intangibility of Logia users is only apparent, that is, that they hide their real body behind the powers of the DF; if a power of some sort is able to pass through the barrier of the DF, it would be able to hit the tangible body of the users. This would be how the Armament Haki works. A little different from seastone in the sense that it passes through (doesn't nullify) the DF powers. The rest is either asking for an explanation that is just not given yet for whatever narrative reasons (there have been hints about the nature of DFs through the series so it's likely that it is further treated later on, many people point at Vegapunk), or plain simply, trying to interpret the world of One Piece with rules that don't apply. The logic, and physics, and mechanisms of this world are not the same as the real ones. It is a fantasy that builds its own rules and therefore reduction to plausible science is not only impossible but misleading. This is where I focus my criticism towards your claims, and where tr1ckst3r talks about suspension of disbelief; knowing that it is an alternative reality that is consistant within and can't be properly explained in the way you are asking. And I say the same for every piece of fiction because every piece of fiction builds its own world and rules to a degree. Pass through? It's not a gateway. Croc for example turns into sand, any hit would not have great damage because the sand would dissipate and move about the body. To undo that is to turn the user back to his original phase. Meaning A. Haki, and specific weaknesses like water, don't make much sense. They don't have mechanics that can actually undo it, they just do. @trickster When you create a power so overpowered, and you can't come up with a way to counter it, then just come up with a new power, and decide "hey this is how to counter it, and you nust have to belief it because it's suspension of disbelief", then that's bad writing. Suspension is used to establish fantastic elements, not patch and retcon the story senselessly. |
| End Zionazism |
| No, you're asking how did Haki can make Logia user tangible, the answer is because it's Haki. that's what you must believe whether you like it or not. and how many times did people explain it to you that Haki is already used many times earlier in the series? it's not out of nowhere. and one more thing, so you indirectly said that Oda can estabilish a world where pirate rule the world, a grand line, a celestial dragon, slavery, shicibukai, yonkou, new world, raftel, void century and etc but you think that he don't know how to counter Logia power that he created? and when he came up with Haki you said it's bad writing coz it's out of nowhere? Oh God please go buy some common sense in e-Bay. |
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tr1ckst3r said: No, you're asking how did Haki can make Logia user tangible, the answer is because it's Haki. that's what you must believe whether you like it or not. and how many times did people explain it to you that Haki is already used many times earlier in the series? it's not out of nowhere. and one more thing, so you indirectly said that Oda can estabilish a world where pirate rule the world, a grand line, a celestial dragon, slavery, shicibukai, yonkou, new world, raftel, void century and etc but you think that he don't know how to counter Logia power that he created? and when he came up with Haki you said it's bad writing coz it's out of nowhere? Oh God please go buy some common sense in e-Bay. Why do you even still bother with Mikasa? You've responded a lot to him before to know what he's like. |
| "Let Justice Be Done!" My Theme Fight again, fight again for justice! |
RedRoseFring said: tr1ckst3r said: No, you're asking how did Haki can make Logia user tangible, the answer is because it's Haki. that's what you must believe whether you like it or not. and how many times did people explain it to you that Haki is already used many times earlier in the series? it's not out of nowhere. and one more thing, so you indirectly said that Oda can estabilish a world where pirate rule the world, a grand line, a celestial dragon, slavery, shicibukai, yonkou, new world, raftel, void century and etc but you think that he don't know how to counter Logia power that he created? and when he came up with Haki you said it's bad writing coz it's out of nowhere? Oh God please go buy some common sense in e-Bay. Why do you even still bother with Mikasa? You've responded a lot to him before to know what he's like. dunno, maybe I'm expecting miracle to happen -_- |
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Mikasa said: When you create a power so overpowered, and you can't come up with a way to counter it, then just come up with a new power, and decide "hey this is how to counter it, and you nust have to belief it because it's suspension of disbelief", then that's bad writing. Suspension is used to establish fantastic elements, not patch and retcon the story senselessly. Confirmed you don't even read/watch One Piece. Haki has existed since the first chapter. |
Mikasa said: jal90 said: It is likely that the intangibility of Logia users is only apparent, that is, that they hide their real body behind the powers of the DF; if a power of some sort is able to pass through the barrier of the DF, it would be able to hit the tangible body of the users. This would be how the Armament Haki works. A little different from seastone in the sense that it passes through (doesn't nullify) the DF powers. The rest is either asking for an explanation that is just not given yet for whatever narrative reasons (there have been hints about the nature of DFs through the series so it's likely that it is further treated later on, many people point at Vegapunk), or plain simply, trying to interpret the world of One Piece with rules that don't apply. The logic, and physics, and mechanisms of this world are not the same as the real ones. It is a fantasy that builds its own rules and therefore reduction to plausible science is not only impossible but misleading. This is where I focus my criticism towards your claims, and where tr1ckst3r talks about suspension of disbelief; knowing that it is an alternative reality that is consistant within and can't be properly explained in the way you are asking. And I say the same for every piece of fiction because every piece of fiction builds its own world and rules to a degree. Pass through? It's not a gateway. Croc for example turns into sand, any hit would not have great damage because the sand would dissipate and move about the body. If you are not going to try to at least think about the points you make, this discussion is ultimately pointless. If DF didn't form a barrier -not a gateway- that would mean that the user is basically intangible and he can't be hit with tangible elements. Crocodile wouldn't be able to be hit with water, Enel wouldn't be able to be hit with gum, Logias in general wouldn't be able to be hit with Haki... It is very likely that Devil Fruits are like spirits that possess the body of a person, transferring their characteristics; as seen already in the series DF powers can be transferred to other fruits and they leave the bodies when people die (so the bodies never stopped being tangible! It's the DF what provides this trait). It is also proved and very blatantly through the series that Logia users are NOT intangible by themselves, they are intangible through their fruit powers and if there is a way to counter and pass through them their body is exposed. Yes, ultimately it is magic. It doesn't look logic to you that a body with traits of intangibility can be made tangible through a physical element; however the physical element is able to ignore the source of power that provides this intangibility in the first place, or to nullify it in the case of seastone. You are mistaking external with internal coherence there. And the first doesn't apply in a serious judgement of a fictional storyline, specially on one that defines itself as a fantasy. |
jal90Oct 2, 2014 2:49 AM
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