'Mushoku Tensei: Isekai Ittara Honki Dasu' Gets Second Anime Season

Infinite said:
I think it's obvious to anyone that Tsubasa doesn't actually hate Hibiki, it's more what she represents (i.e. the loss of her friend), and if she gave herself the time to deal with it emotionally she would realise it. Her hatred was never going to last, however it was there at the time. Your sentence cut off for some reason, but I assume you are stating that the abrupt change is her coming to terms with the loss? I think that she also resents Hibiki because she feels like no one else cares about Kanade's death, they seem already keen to foist Hibiki onto her when she's still mourning. tl;dr although I never thought the anger should last, I think the tonal change was very extreme. People don't often change their mind when they have heightened anger because, well, that's how your brain works, but also because you're less likely to want to be wrong (i.e. admitting Hibiki isn't actually bad and you've been kind of a jerk to her) when you're being confrontational.

Obviously she despised Yellow Thing with a passion for brief period of time, but obviously, she learned to accept her because plot demands it.
Imagine that you are still are devastated, mourning your soulmate and then some upstart rookie using her borrowed power just like that states, that she will replace her, effectively pissing all over her grave and disrespecting her. Imagine the hubris and lack of ability to read the room. Anyone would understandably lash out and Yellow Thing handled this situation so poorly, that Tsubasa even tried to commit suicide by unleashing Swan Song. Unfortunately, our Mary Sue protagonist did not used that situation as an opportunity to learn and be a better person, because author seemingly thought that's how a reasonable human being acts and she remains that egoistic sociopath, who only pretends to be a hero for her own sick and twisted sense of self gratification for five full seasons which never bites her in the ass because that's what plot demands as well.
What a fkin joke....

Jun 1, 2023 4:36 PM by Piromysl

Wdtm86 said:
dont like the

but still great news

IKR, but don't you mean

As a reader of the web novel before it got taken down from baka-tsuki I like to pretend that annoying ark didn't exist.

I heard the LN/Manga filled in the gap from the 2 year time skip but from the teaser at the end of the season, it looked like they just rearranged some of the later arks.

Apr 15, 2022 9:49 PM by Saronin_Jayhart

Infinite said:
I mean, it's not as if I was forced to participate the discussion, I did because I wanted to. I only mentioned that I was referenced because finding this by chance would be a depressing statement on the time I would have to spend on the forums. Your apology was only meant as a dig at Tokoya in any case so perhaps I shouldn't take it seriously.

Somewhat, but the intent remains.

I think it's obvious to anyone that Tsubasa doesn't actually hate Hibiki, it's more what she represents (i.e. the loss of her friend), and if she gave herself the time to deal with it emotionally she would realise it. Her hatred was never going to last, however it was there at the time. Your sentence cut off for some reason, but I assume you are stating that the abrupt change is her coming to terms with the loss? I think that she also resents Hibiki because she feels like no one else cares about Kanade's death, they seem already keen to foist Hibiki onto her when she's still mourning. tl;dr although I never thought the anger should last, I think the tonal change was very extreme. People don't often change their mind when they have heightened anger because, well, that's how your brain works, but also because you're less likely to want to be wrong (i.e. admitting Hibiki isn't actually bad and you've been kind of a jerk to her) when you're being confrontational.

Not sure what happened with my sentence. I meant to say something to the effect of the abrupt change being simply a shift in focus, from seeing Hibiki as a bastardisation of Kanade to seeing her as just a regular person. I wouldn't say Tsubasa ever fully comes to terms with Kanade's death, even in XV we see the lingering effects of her past. So, it's not really that there's any abrupt change, rather, as I said earlier, the two scenes are simply reflecting entirely different relationships.

I do remember the Noise being able to pass through walls and such, however I do not remember why I still thought it was stupid.

Fair enough. If you recall, I'd be interested to know.

I think the way the Zesshou was portrayed in the first episode was clearly designed to indicate it was a self-sacrificial. The way characters react to it with horror throughout the season tells me, even if it's never technically stated, that it's at the very least an incredibly dangerous thing to do, if not fatal.

It's certainly dangerous, but it was never sacrificial. Outside of Kanade, who knew full well that using it in her current state would result in death, we never see any other character attempt to do it without the full intent of surviving.

Technical aspects are not as important as the core writing, but I will say they aren't negligible. I think technical aspects can elevate a great show into something even greater, and there are things you can do with more budget which might otherwise not be possible. For example in Arcane (not an anime I know), because they are able to animate faces so well it allows them to sell character moments and do characterisation exceptionally well, without having to explicitly state it. Obviously if the base anime is shit then you're just polishing a turd, but I think to say it's negligible is disingenuous.

I'm not going to deny any of that, it's certainly true that above-par work on the technical side is a positive, however, the position I hold is that an absence of said above-par work is not a negative, which is a completely different matter.

The process of animation, and really filmmaking and direction in general, is ultimately just to bridge the gap between the visual and narrative components of a work. How each individual artist goes about this is entirely their own prerogative, but in every case, that's the sole purpose of their work's technical aspects. After all, such things cannot exist in a vacuum - you cannot have sound effects without instances that produce sounds, you cannot have a score without footage against which it may be cued, and you can't have animation without a sequence of events to animate, i.e, a story.

If technical aspects of a work serve their purpose, if they communicate the intent of the creator, then there's no fault on their shoulders. The only scenario in which "bad" technical elements would actually be a detriment would be if they impede the actual process of watching and understanding the show, and that's so rare as to be nigh-inconceivable. So, I maintain such things are negligible, irrelevant. No work has a requirement to be exceptional on the technical front. It's certainly nice when they are, but cannot be considered an issue when they aren't.

Mar 17, 2022 9:33 AM by O_T_T

Some of you love to argue...

I am glad there will be another season especially after watching the OVA.

Mar 16, 2022 11:39 AM by p0rque

What a horribly polluted thread !?

Happy to see this show get a second season (as it seems most people are)

Mar 16, 2022 7:30 AM by borderliner

O_T_T said:

To begin with, I'll apologise on behalf of Tokoya for bringing you here, as they only did so thanks to being too witless to have an opinion of their own, and wanting to piggyback on yours instead. By no means feel obligated to pay the conversation I had with him any mind.

Whilst I fully understand and have no complaints what you say about the series, both regarding the first season and as a whole, I'd like to elaborate on what I mean by mistakes. I'm referring to these few observations around the centre of your review:

There's an instance where a character hates another one so much she's tried to kill her, but her hate is instantly forgotten when the other character points out her room is messy.

For example, with the frequent attacks by the Noise, which you cannot defend yourself against and kill everyone in the areas they attack, why do people go outside so casually?

Take the Swan songs, they used to mean certain death, yet past Kanade's death, it stops being fatal, and towards the very end, there is no visible affect at all.

In the first case, I find that you've misinterpreted the early scene of Tsubasa attacking Hibiki. She does not, in fact, hate her with any sort of vitriol, rather her grief over the loss of Kanade came to a boiling point after Hibiki's well-meaning suggestion that she would replace her. In other words, the scene isn't really about Hibiki and Tsubasa's relationship, but Kanade and Tsubasa's. The seemingly abrupt change is in fact

In the second, I'm not going to make any accusations that you weren't paying attention, but this is something made very clear by the show, both visually and exposited directly. Noise can pass through solid matter, only stopping and becoming tangible upon contact with Humans, so whether someone is indoors or outside doesn't help their situation one bit.

And the last is certainly no fault of your own, as it's a common misconception, of which the term "Swan Song" is no doubt responsible for. In fact, this is a mistranslation. The Zesshou, as we can call it to avoid confusion, was never set up as a death-dealing technique. Kanade only died due to a lack of Harmonisation and having not taken LINKER prior to the concert, as it was of course not meant to be a combat encounter. We can see this corroborated throughout the series, as any time the Zesshou causes death or injury, it is when it occurs whilst in turmoil, and critically, alone, whilst when performed as a group it functions as intended.

That's about all I was referring to. Again, I shan't assume obliviousness, but they're errors nonetheless. As for the other points, I'd argue that the importance of technical aspects is so overwhelmingly negligible as to amount to irrelevancy, but that's a completely different discussion I'm sure neither of us care for.

I mean, it's not as if I was forced to participate the discussion, I did because I wanted to. I only mentioned that I was referenced because finding this by chance would be a depressing statement on the time I would have to spend on the forums. Your apology was only meant as a dig at Tokoya in any case so perhaps I shouldn't take it seriously.

I think it's obvious to anyone that Tsubasa doesn't actually hate Hibiki, it's more what she represents (i.e. the loss of her friend), and if she gave herself the time to deal with it emotionally she would realise it. Her hatred was never going to last, however it was there at the time. Your sentence cut off for some reason, but I assume you are stating that the abrupt change is her coming to terms with the loss? I think that she also resents Hibiki because she feels like no one else cares about Kanade's death, they seem already keen to foist Hibiki onto her when she's still mourning. tl;dr although I never thought the anger should last, I think the tonal change was very extreme. People don't often change their mind when they have heightened anger because, well, that's how your brain works, but also because you're less likely to want to be wrong (i.e. admitting Hibiki isn't actually bad and you've been kind of a jerk to her) when you're being confrontational.

I do remember the Noise being able to pass through walls and such, however I do not remember why I still thought it was stupid.

I think the way the Zesshou was portrayed in the first episode was clearly designed to indicate it was a self-sacrificial. The way characters react to it with horror throughout the season tells me, even if it's never technically stated, that it's at the very least an incredibly dangerous thing to do, if not fatal.

Technical aspects are not as important as the core writing, but I will say they aren't negligible. I think technical aspects can elevate a great show into something even greater, and there are things you can do with more budget which might otherwise not be possible. For example in Arcane (not an anime I know), because they are able to animate faces so well it allows them to sell character moments and do characterisation exceptionally well, without having to explicitly state it. Obviously if the base anime is shit then you're just polishing a turd, but I think to say it's negligible is disingenuous.

Mar 15, 2022 5:59 PM by Infinite

Infinite said:
Disclaimer: I got notified that I was mentioned. As to the wider argument going on I think it mostly devolved into "you're wrong because your opinion sucks", so I'm not going to touch that and just focus on the minor sub-argument which related to my review.

O_T_T said:
Citing the topmost review for it is lazy, even for you. Not as lazy as the review in question though, as it lacks any consistent points - much of it is about technical issues, which anyone with even the most meagre understanding of media knows is of lesser importance, the fifth, sixth and seventh paragraphs contain clear mistakes in regards to characterisation and lore, and much of the rest is just reiterating earlier claims.

It's definitely not written the way I'd write it now, but given it's been a decade since then, it'd be a poor statement on me if that wasn't the case!

Funnily, I actually really like the subsequent seasons of Symphogear, they have got a real self-aware and cheesy vibe, but I definitely feel like the first season lacked that self-awareness.

As a stand-alone (or self-contained) series I would probably still say it's quite bad, but now it exists to a precursor to better series I'm much less derogatory of it. Anyway, quick points about your criticisms:

1) Much as you and I personally don't care that much about "technical issues", the majority of people on MAL do.
2) Just because "technical issues" matter less doesn't mean they doesn't matter at all.
3) You say that the mistakes I make are clear. My memory is not good enough to specifically address this point by point, but I'm pretty sure that the interaction between Hibiki and Tsubasa in the bedroom that neutralised the hostility did actually happen, which I still think is silly (although now I'd probably laugh at it). I also don't think enough was explained about the world lore that my questions were clearly spurious. Again, perhaps I'm putting a little too much faith in my former self here.

Anywho, that was a fun little aside, I didn't realise that you could tag people in the MAL forums.

To begin with, I'll apologise on behalf of Tokoya for bringing you here, as they only did so thanks to being too witless to have an opinion of their own, and wanting to piggyback on yours instead. By no means feel obligated to pay the conversation I had with him any mind.

Whilst I fully understand and have no complaints what you say about the series, both regarding the first season and as a whole, I'd like to elaborate on what I mean by mistakes. I'm referring to these few observations around the centre of your review:

There's an instance where a character hates another one so much she's tried to kill her, but her hate is instantly forgotten when the other character points out her room is messy.

For example, with the frequent attacks by the Noise, which you cannot defend yourself against and kill everyone in the areas they attack, why do people go outside so casually?

Take the Swan songs, they used to mean certain death, yet past Kanade's death, it stops being fatal, and towards the very end, there is no visible affect at all.

In the first case, I find that you've misinterpreted the early scene of Tsubasa attacking Hibiki. She does not, in fact, hate her with any sort of vitriol, rather her grief over the loss of Kanade came to a boiling point after Hibiki's well-meaning suggestion that she would replace her. In other words, the scene isn't really about Hibiki and Tsubasa's relationship, but Kanade and Tsubasa's. The seemingly abrupt change is in fact

In the second, I'm not going to make any accusations that you weren't paying attention, but this is something made very clear by the show, both visually and exposited directly. Noise can pass through solid matter, only stopping and becoming tangible upon contact with Humans, so whether someone is indoors or outside doesn't help their situation one bit.

And the last is certainly no fault of your own, as it's a common misconception, of which the term "Swan Song" is no doubt responsible for. In fact, this is a mistranslation. The Zesshou, as we can call it to avoid confusion, was never set up as a death-dealing technique. Kanade only died due to a lack of Harmonisation and having not taken LINKER prior to the concert, as it was of course not meant to be a combat encounter. We can see this corroborated throughout the series, as any time the Zesshou causes death or injury, it is when it occurs whilst in turmoil, and critically, alone, whilst when performed as a group it functions as intended.

That's about all I was referring to. Again, I shan't assume obliviousness, but they're errors nonetheless. As for the other points, I'd argue that the importance of technical aspects is so overwhelmingly negligible as to amount to irrelevancy, but that's a completely different discussion I'm sure neither of us care for.

Mar 15, 2022 5:22 AM by O_T_T

Too happy with this news, my favorite isekai...

Mar 12, 2022 3:29 PM by Kinyoubi

Disclaimer: I got notified that I was mentioned. As to the wider argument going on I think it mostly devolved into "you're wrong because your opinion sucks", so I'm not going to touch that and just focus on the minor sub-argument which related to my review.

O_T_T said:
Citing the topmost review for it is lazy, even for you. Not as lazy as the review in question though, as it lacks any consistent points - much of it is about technical issues, which anyone with even the most meagre understanding of media knows is of lesser importance, the fifth, sixth and seventh paragraphs contain clear mistakes in regards to characterisation and lore, and much of the rest is just reiterating earlier claims.

It's definitely not written the way I'd write it now, but given it's been a decade since then, it'd be a poor statement on me if that wasn't the case!

Funnily, I actually really like the subsequent seasons of Symphogear, they have got a real self-aware and cheesy vibe, but I definitely feel like the first season lacked that self-awareness.

As a stand-alone (or self-contained) series I would probably still say it's quite bad, but now it exists to a precursor to better series I'm much less derogatory of it. Anyway, quick points about your criticisms:

1) Much as you and I personally don't care that much about "technical issues", the majority of people on MAL do.
2) Just because "technical issues" matter less doesn't mean they doesn't matter at all.
3) You say that the mistakes I make are clear. My memory is not good enough to specifically address this point by point, but I'm pretty sure that the interaction between Hibiki and Tsubasa in the bedroom that neutralised the hostility did actually happen, which I still think is silly (although now I'd probably laugh at it). I also don't think enough was explained about the world lore that my questions were clearly spurious. Again, perhaps I'm putting a little too much faith in my former self here.

Anywho, that was a fun little aside, I didn't realise that you could tag people in the MAL forums.

Since I'm here, regarding the actual topic of conversation, Mushoku Tensei:

I thought it was pretty good, the general consensus of the anime I think is heavily carried by the care and attention put into the adaptation, which was incredibly well done. I think pretending that this isn't any better than most other anime (especially when it comes to characterisation) is dishonest, or perhaps coloured by the fact the main character is a piece of shit (which does put me off).

I do definitely agree that most light novels are complete garbage though.

Also, if you think that Mushoku Tensei is overrated now, just wait until the whole series is adapted. One of the biggest issues with anime overall is that 95% of anime are incomplete stories. The minority of anime which get fully adapted tend to be much more highly appreciated simply because it can provide a proper close. I wish more series got fully adapted...

Mar 10, 2022 3:55 PM by Infinite

Sort out your formatting. Your diction has come to be as awful as your opinions.

Tokoya said:
1. It matters, just because you were triggered and felt the need to respond that doesn't justify it, so drop it

You've completely ignored what I just said. I don't need to justify calling you out. I can do that when I want. If you don't like it, don't say dumb shit.

2. Why would I be triggered lol? I was telling that guy to not waste his time because I've already done that with you xD Why are you fabricating narratives now???

You've read your own point thinking it was mine. Read the sentence below it.

3. "They mean nothing at all times" - yet they still exist huh? I wonder why

To give your lot the illusion their uneducated opinion matters, if you must know.

4. You sound like a flat earther here, that's actually hilarious...Also, I see you don't know what an aggregate is either since you're incorrectly using the word average here....You bad at math too then?

Aggregates, in the context you are trying to employ the term, are a type of average. You're just trying to nitpick in lieu of an actual point, and it's backfiring over and over. Refer to my point again, it's not "what everyone agrees on," not that that matters.

5. Are you brain dead? Like seriously, did you not read what I said here??? What are you even getting at here lol....You were the one who said that the stuff he criticized in his review are technical issues even though said review started with things that aren't technical issue (Which is what I pointed out).

A - You did not point that out. You misread what I said and thought that "technical" was calling the story and characterisation "technicalities," which I then had to correct you was not the case.

B - The first point on which the review expands is a technical matter, the animation. Observe the second and third paragraphs.

C - Whether or not this came before the story elements within their review is completely irrelevant. You're grasping at straws.

But what's so baffling about this is that now you're trying to coin what I pointed out as your own thoughts LMAO

Nothing I'm discussing can even generously be interpreted as close to what you've rambled on about. You can look at the first time the review was brought up and see that my points refuting it now are the same as they were then.

But anyway, all this means is that to you Symphogear is a masterpiece so at this point I'm not gonna bother arguing with a fanboy such as yourself about the quality of the writing

In addition to this being a complete non-sequitur from the preceding paragraph, it's also meaningless. It says nothing about the actual quality of the show nor my ability to argue in favour of it. You've essentially just admitted you're out of your depth, but lack the dignity to say so directly.

6. Show me where I outright stated that idol anime are flawed, I'll wait....

We have long since moved past that, did you not read my last two comments? You're now insisting you never held any ill will towards idol anime. I do not recall that, however if we take that to be what you now believe, regardless of if you always did or not, then that's only agreeing with my earlier argument and reaffirming my position.

But man you're funny...You're really out here preaching that everything you like and dislike the objective standard and thus , they must be liked and disliked by everyone too

That's another blitheringly stupid Straw Man. I never proclaimed my opinions to be "the objective standard." Rather, in this specific scenario, I agree with "the objective standard," or rather what you mean to say by that. These are, obviously, two completely different things. That you're incapable of telling them apart is a damning critique of your knowledge in this subject.

Mar 10, 2022 9:23 AM by O_T_T

O_T_T said:

Tokoya said:
Yeah, I'm not going to individually respond to all of this so take this as is

1. I repeat, was I talking to you? I'm sure if I was talking you, I would have directly responded to you like I always have done, so you can bitch all you want lol

You could have chosen less pathetic hills to die on. Whether or not you were talking to me does not matter. You do not dictate when someone can or cannot point out your errors based on if you were already talking to them.

2. You were definitely triggered, otherwise you would have gone about your day, but instead you chose to respond to someone who didn't even acknowledge that they cared to even hear what you have to say on the matter

At this point you're just writing fanfiction about me. You have no way to know what I think outside of that which I tell you.

3. "Scores are meaningless" Okay bro, whatever you say....Might as well get rid of em altogether since according to you, they mean nothing when it goes against what you yourself personally think about whatever the said series is that's in question

No, they mean nothing at all times. Not just when I disagree with them. You're making a Straw Man.

...It may not be "correct" but if majority of the people can agree on something, that says A LOT

A - They do not. As I pointed out, large groups of people do not naturally, intrinsically gravitate to the correct view.

B - The average score isn't even what most people agree on. It's a mean average, not a mode average.

4. This response about Infinite's review is just sad and harkens back to the above point I made but man, I didn't know that bad characterization, plot conveniences and flawed/inconsistent/bad writing were "Technicalities". I'm concerned now by how you judge series lol since you refer to legitimate flaws as technical issues, that is, unless you're a style over substance kind of guy xD

You haven't even realised that you've embarrassed yourself. "Technical" refers to aspects that are part of constructing the anime, as opposed to storytelling. Animation, editing, voice acting, the like, as opposed to writing, characterisation and worldbuilding. That is why I highlighted them as two separate points, and noted that the former is lesser to the latter. You would know this if you actually read what I wrote rather than snivelling about it.

5. I never said that idol anime are flawed, I said that they're too niche and as such it won't be well received by everyone (Unless you get a kick out of watching CGDCT-concert edition). Its sad that you resorted to putting words in my mouth just to even attempt to make a rational response here lol

You've directly referred to idol anime as negative in earlier threads. Regardless, refer to my previous comment, that they're not well received by everyone means nothing. This is again your moronic fixation on "well if it's not popular then it must be not good."[/quote]