Thoughts on OEL manga, anime-influenced animation, "manga-styled comics"—animanga produced by non-Japanese markets for non-Japanese consumers?
New
Nov 18, 2024 10:45 PM
#1
...yeah, I don't remember the last time I made a thread, either. XD Anime and manga's influence has always loomed large all over the world to the point where these foreign markets and consumers started producing their own inspired products themselves. These products include the infamous Original English Language (OEL) manga, American anime, French anime, Italian anime, Saturday AM's Diverse Manga, so on and so on... if you're an anime fan who is also able to name a couple of these kinds before you even clicked on this thread, then you clearly already get the idea. Since these kinds of derivatives (for lack of a better term?) are not considered "anime" and "manga" in that they are Japan-produced for a primarily native Japanese audience, I have decided to post this thread outside the popular Anime Discussion and the not-so-much Manga Discussion Board. They're literally considered a different type of entertainment by many including me on this site, and this Music & Entertainment board could use some more traction anyway. Series that just vaguely look like their inspiration and share some direction, for example with things like serialized drama cartoons, chibi proportions, magical girl tropes and transformation scenes in the case of "Sailor Moon copies" (?), etc., but are very clearly Westernized or whatever term compared to what Japan tends to produce with their shows/comics. Now now, you all know me, this is something I do want to talk about, but there are tons of threads over the years that already talk about things like TokyoPop's "Amerimanga"/OEL manga/Rising Stars of Manga, and asking for opinions on Avatar and if it is an anime, and whatever. If I wanted to talk about just this, I could have just revived one of those without any care in the world lol. I do still want to know what the anime community currently thinks about these anime-inspired shows and books, but I do have something else new to talk about and want to see if I can get any more perspective on this specific part. ★-⋆-⋆-⋆-⋆-⋆-⋆-⋆-⋆-⋆-★ So recently I heard that Bangladesh, a country my younger self never would even imagine would care about anime especially with how religious the country is to my limited knowledge and experience, now has their very first manga magazine and original comics for their native market. The magazine is called Source?, and they aim to produce original, manga-inspired comics, along with bringing over manga's influence to their Bengali-language market. Now this and several Bangla anime-inspired companies (such as Studio Padma) has me remembering about a question I've had since I started being more of a regular on MAL and on its forums and Clubs feature...... are there any South Asian weebs out there? Are there any South Asians who can tell me what the anime community is like over there, and what kinds of series they like, and if they know that this magazine and its exclusive Webtoons exist? Can any of you tell me what you think about new anime-inspired products like this? DO ANY OF YOU FELLOW DESIS WANT MAGICAL GIRL SERIES LIKE I DO TOO? I genuinely want to know! So I hope you don't mind if I tag some of you South Asian users for your opinion. @RhymePlays @JehadKun @Raiden_4 @WtfAmIdoinghaha @CryoBlood61 @GreyratAnimelist @yameteKudasaiKun @aurora_yuuki @Kreinegen @AlbiKun @IseKai_Kan0j0 @CyberNinjaNJ-san @SA796 @sagor @Emiria-tan-EMT- @Ristoki @Animan0_0 @mostakeajka @Dreamxer @aumia @Ashraf9053 @Himalqwertyuio @Zaahin__ @SazeedSatoshi @naeemsinin8040 @Obliess9 @uzaerhossain @zaahraa @Labi_uwu @Nubah I just can't help but find all this news amusing... please share to more Bangla users if you know any more!! But yeah, whether or not you want to talk about non-Japanese animanga in general or just the fact that I might be able to finally put on some halal Bangla anime that my mom will not kick me out of the house with big zaru lahtee amar ke sesa debe for putting on... come on over! Let's talk and have some fun! |
Nov 19, 2024 12:10 AM
#2
Ah, thank you for tagging, I will definitely want to highlight some animanga inspired creations in my country, India. Actually the fanbase has grown quite a lot I mean it literally ballooned in last 4-5 years for anime and manga, so it's kind of obvious for inspiration. We have Karmachakra, an anime inspired animated film made in India. Although it has only 1 pilot episode available now. You can watch it on YouTube. Imo it's good, if you watch you can see the passion of people behind it. Also we have manga inspired webtoon like digital comics under toonsutra app. But honestly they are underwhelming and quite lacking. There are some individual creators who create short anime inspired clips of their own idea. In fact there are lots of them on IG and twitter. But the fact that in my country that kind of art hasn't got any much recognition unlike Japan so many talented individuals who want to pursue don't go this path. Anyways excited to see more development as time goes by. |
Nov 19, 2024 1:12 AM
#3
よ! I forgot my friend was also talking about Source too. gotta take a look into this. |
Nov 19, 2024 9:56 AM
#5
Hi thanks for tagging me I am from Bangladesh but I didn't know there was a Bengali magazine or Webtoon like this but it looks cool. As for the anime community here I don’t know a lot about it. A Magical Girl series? Yes, I would love to see something like that |
Nov 19, 2024 3:48 PM
#6
Reply to Nubah3
How did you find me? I'm curious:/
I've known that there were Bangladeshi anime fan clubs around here, so I was looking around users who joined these old MAL clubs lately and whoever commented on these peoples' profiles who also apply, and you showed up in one of them @Nubah. Sorry I hope you don't mind, it's just I wanted to find active fellow Desi users to chat with. Though speaking of active Bangladeshi club members and trying to get their perspectives... JehadKun said: Thank you and the several others who replied, I'll get to everyone one at a time in a moment!I didn't know there was a Bengali magazine or Webtoon like this but it looks cool. As for the anime community here I don’t know a lot about it. A Magical Girl series? Yes, I would love to see something like that I just had to ask what the community is like because from the few MAL clubs here and even this new magazine, it seems that South Asian and/or Indian subcontinent weebs are looking for shounen/seinen demographics with lots of action and blood. I was curious if the community over there would be curious about giving anything else a try, like one of my favorite genres. If only I knew more Bengali, otherwise I would have considered contacting them already even though I don't exactly live there. |
Nov 19, 2024 6:32 PM
#7
For those looking for a Source, I saw a copy of them in a random stationary in Bailey |
Nov 19, 2024 7:13 PM
#8
Reply to Fario-P
I've known that there were Bangladeshi anime fan clubs around here, so I was looking around users who joined these old MAL clubs lately and whoever commented on these peoples' profiles who also apply, and you showed up in one of them @Nubah. Sorry I hope you don't mind, it's just I wanted to find active fellow Desi users to chat with.
Though speaking of active Bangladeshi club members and trying to get their perspectives...
I just had to ask what the community is like because from the few MAL clubs here and even this new magazine, it seems that South Asian and/or Indian subcontinent weebs are looking for shounen/seinen demographics with lots of action and blood. I was curious if the community over there would be curious about giving anything else a try, like one of my favorite genres.
If only I knew more Bengali, otherwise I would have considered contacting them already even though I don't exactly live there.
Though speaking of active Bangladeshi club members and trying to get their perspectives...
JehadKun said:
I didn't know there was a Bengali magazine or Webtoon like this but it looks cool. As for the anime community here I don’t know a lot about it. A Magical Girl series? Yes, I would love to see something like that
Thank you and the several others who replied, I'll get to everyone one at a time in a moment!I didn't know there was a Bengali magazine or Webtoon like this but it looks cool. As for the anime community here I don’t know a lot about it. A Magical Girl series? Yes, I would love to see something like that
I just had to ask what the community is like because from the few MAL clubs here and even this new magazine, it seems that South Asian and/or Indian subcontinent weebs are looking for shounen/seinen demographics with lots of action and blood. I was curious if the community over there would be curious about giving anything else a try, like one of my favorite genres.
If only I knew more Bengali, otherwise I would have considered contacting them already even though I don't exactly live there.
@Fario-P no I didn't mind:)) |
Nov 20, 2024 1:09 PM
#9
Reply to yameteKudasaiKun
Ah, thank you for tagging, I will definitely want to highlight some animanga inspired creations in my country, India.
Actually the fanbase has grown quite a lot I mean it literally ballooned in last 4-5 years for anime and manga, so it's kind of obvious for inspiration.
We have Karmachakra, an anime inspired animated film made in India. Although it has only 1 pilot episode available now. You can watch it on YouTube. Imo it's good, if you watch you can see the passion of people behind it. Also we have manga inspired webtoon like digital comics under toonsutra app. But honestly they are underwhelming and quite lacking. There are some individual creators who create short anime inspired clips of their own idea. In fact there are lots of them on IG and twitter.
But the fact that in my country that kind of art hasn't got any much recognition unlike Japan so many talented individuals who want to pursue don't go this path.
Anyways excited to see more development as time goes by.
Actually the fanbase has grown quite a lot I mean it literally ballooned in last 4-5 years for anime and manga, so it's kind of obvious for inspiration.
We have Karmachakra, an anime inspired animated film made in India. Although it has only 1 pilot episode available now. You can watch it on YouTube. Imo it's good, if you watch you can see the passion of people behind it. Also we have manga inspired webtoon like digital comics under toonsutra app. But honestly they are underwhelming and quite lacking. There are some individual creators who create short anime inspired clips of their own idea. In fact there are lots of them on IG and twitter.
But the fact that in my country that kind of art hasn't got any much recognition unlike Japan so many talented individuals who want to pursue don't go this path.
Anyways excited to see more development as time goes by.
@yameteKudasaiKun Oh I remember hearing about Karmachakra some years ago, I tried to watch whatever I could find of it but it wasn't much from what I can remember. Thanks for sharing about that and Toonsutra. Everything may seem lacking right now, but give it time. I'm sure that these companies will produce more quality in the future if given a chance. I'm sure there will be something on the level of quality as Avatar or Teen Titans coming out. |
Nov 20, 2024 3:46 PM
#10
I used to read Megatokyo back before I discovered real manga. |
その目だれの目? |
Nov 21, 2024 12:32 PM
#11
Reply to Lucifrost
I used to read Megatokyo back before I discovered real manga.
How was it @Lucifrost? If you remember anything about it. I think the only exposure I've had to non-Japanese manga are seeing Peach Fuzz ads on old TokyoPop volumes and reading Yen Press's reprint of the W.I.T.C.H. series. I've put a picture of W.I.T.C.H. on OP earlier, so I will put a picture of Peach Fuzz for those reading here who haven't heard of it. ETA: Because the author's scan of an article of her work is big and there are a lot of ESL users on this site, I will type out the whole article in case you want to copy and paste it into a translation website or whatever case. NewType USA - A THOUSAND WORDS Since none of us can draw to save our lives, we filled the final page with a heaping helping of text Made in America Even the most devoted of Western manga fans will admit that the nascent genre has a major image problem Quick! Think of your absolute favorite Japanese comic—Dragon Ball, Naruto, Fruits Basket, any of them will do. Recall all your favorite scenes, the ones that made you laugh or moved you emotionally. Now pretend that the author of this beloved comic wasn't Japanese—instead of having an exotic name like Rumiko Takahashi or Akira Toriyama, he or she went by something like Kelly Schmid or Martin Simms. Would that fact reduce your appreciation of the manga? Or, to put it another way, would the manga's American roots have made you so indifferent to the series that you wouldn't have picked it up in the first place? Several US manga publishers are banking on the notion that you wouldn't care much. In just the past year, dozens of original manga have been published by people all over the world, from southern California to the Philippines. Some webcomics drawn in "manga style" have made the jump to physical books, and one outfit, Seven Seas Publishing, releases nothing but Western manga—comics written in English, but that still read right-to-left, Japanese style. This Western manga varies widely in quality; while some have that unmistakably generic How to Draw Manga feel to its art, much of it expertly drawn and just as entertaining as "real" manga. I personally dig Blade for Barter (Seven Seas) and Peach Fuzz (TOKYOPOP), though I'm probably biased towards Peach Fuzz because I own two ferrets myself and have personally played out some of that manga's chapters in real life. Even the most devoted of Western manga fans will admit that the nascent genre has a major image problem. Part of the difficulty is that manga fans don't know exactly what to make of it. Many believe (and manga publishers have historically told them) that Japanese manga is the only "real" manga, and anything else is half-baked. End result: Fans point out all the lowlights of bad Western manga—incorrect proportions, US-style art sensibilities, little greater-than signs for noses—and dismiss the entire genre based on that. "When I first started Megatokyo, there was a huge bias against American creators," manga artist Fred Gallagher explains. "There was an ingrained attitude that if it's not made by a Japanese creator, it sucks. The problem was the shallow level some manga-inspired works had a tendency to reach. So many attempts at the 'manga style' had all the stereotypes of Japanese manga without any of the depth or subtlety. People didn't get the same feel from some of the American attempts that they did from Japanese manga." Mike Schwark, half of the team behind TOKYOPOP's Van Von Hunter, gives us his take on the matter: "We're obviously such big fans of anime and manga that it's had a major impact on our own artwork. You would think other fans would be supportive of the fact that we're expressing it, rather than being so opposed to it. As an artist who loves manga, should I just lament that I was born in the wrong country and resign myself to drawing superhero comics?" What Gallagher says about the early attempts at "manga style" is true enough—thumbing through some older issues of the late Studio Ironcat's AmeriManga magazine can be a harrowing experience. Still, let's think about the original definition of the word "manga" for a moment. As far as the Japanese language is concerned, "manga" can cover any form of sequential art, including US superhero comics (although there are other terms for those). It doesn't mean "comics read right-to-left" or "comics with big eyes" or "comics where the ladies take their tops off every five pages"—anything suitably comic-y is fair game. "Manga is not just one particular style of art or story, but a full spectrum of genres and art styles that differ greatly from one creator's work to the next," says Lindsay Cibos, co-creator of Peach Fuzz. "There's no reason why one's ethnicity and origin should define whether or not a particular work is manga, so long as the creator can capture the qualities and spirit of manga." Which is well and good, but if the word "manga" doesn't have any connotations in and of itself, then what is the spirit of manga? It's easy to make anecdotal comparisons between what Japanese manga does right and what US comics do "wrong," but nobody can give a concise, comprehensive definition of the word "manga." The best definition I could come up with is, "a comic with long, cohesive storytelling, instantly identifiable characters, satisfying pace and a definitive conclusion"—and that says nothing about art style, which (like it or not) plays a big part in most readers' eyes. So what does that mean for non-Japanese artists who want to produce manga? The question seems difficult, but I think the answer's pretty straightforward—quit wasting time pursuing all the little details that make manga art "manga art," and concentrate instead on what makes manga "manga." "The misconception that only Japanese creators can do work that appeals the way manga does exists because manga hasn't really been influencing people here for very long," says Gallagher. "It takes a long time to develop creators who can produce works that appeal to people in the same way. Give it a few more years, and with so many young and talented people now being influenced by it, I think you will see a lot of work surfacing that will appeal to people the same way the Japanese stuff does." In other words, it isn't a Japanese thing—it's a storytelling thing, and if more Western artists pick up on that, the future of this so-called bastard child of "real manga" could be brighter than you'd think. —Kevin Gifford Associate Editor Obvious disclaimer: directly transferring the excerpt into text like this is not done to plagiarize. This is done just for accessibility purposes and because it seems the article kinda fits into this thread's discussion of non-Japanese "manga" in the first place. I have not put any of my commentary nor editing into the transcript for archiving/accessibility's sake. Never read it, though I saw a video talking about it recently. |
Fario-PNov 21, 2024 1:13 PM
Nov 21, 2024 2:50 PM
#12
Reply to Fario-P
How was it @Lucifrost? If you remember anything about it.
I think the only exposure I've had to non-Japanese manga are seeing Peach Fuzz ads on old TokyoPop volumes and reading Yen Press's reprint of the W.I.T.C.H. series. I've put a picture of W.I.T.C.H. on OP earlier, so I will put a picture of Peach Fuzz for those reading here who haven't heard of it.
ETA: Because the author's scan of an article of her work is big and there are a lot of ESL users on this site, I will type out the whole article in case you want to copy and paste it into a translation website or whatever case.
Obvious disclaimer: directly transferring the excerpt into text like this is not done to plagiarize. This is done just for accessibility purposes and because it seems the article kinda fits into this thread's discussion of non-Japanese "manga" in the first place. I have not put any of my commentary nor editing into the transcript for archiving/accessibility's sake.
Never read it, though I saw a video talking about it recently.
I think the only exposure I've had to non-Japanese manga are seeing Peach Fuzz ads on old TokyoPop volumes and reading Yen Press's reprint of the W.I.T.C.H. series. I've put a picture of W.I.T.C.H. on OP earlier, so I will put a picture of Peach Fuzz for those reading here who haven't heard of it.
ETA: Because the author's scan of an article of her work is big and there are a lot of ESL users on this site, I will type out the whole article in case you want to copy and paste it into a translation website or whatever case.
NewType USA - A THOUSAND WORDS
Since none of us can draw to save our lives, we filled the final page with a heaping helping of text
Made in America
Even the most devoted of Western manga fans will admit that the nascent genre has a major image problem
Quick! Think of your absolute favorite Japanese comic—Dragon Ball, Naruto, Fruits Basket, any of them will do. Recall all your favorite scenes, the ones that made you laugh or moved you emotionally. Now pretend that the author of this beloved comic wasn't Japanese—instead of having an exotic name like Rumiko Takahashi or Akira Toriyama, he or she went by something like Kelly Schmid or Martin Simms. Would that fact reduce your appreciation of the manga? Or, to put it another way, would the manga's American roots have made you so indifferent to the series that you wouldn't have picked it up in the first place?
Several US manga publishers are banking on the notion that you wouldn't care much. In just the past year, dozens of original manga have been published by people all over the world, from southern California to the Philippines. Some webcomics drawn in "manga style" have made the jump to physical books, and one outfit, Seven Seas Publishing, releases nothing but Western manga—comics written in English, but that still read right-to-left, Japanese style. This Western manga varies widely in quality; while some have that unmistakably generic How to Draw Manga feel to its art, much of it expertly drawn and just as entertaining as "real" manga. I personally dig Blade for Barter (Seven Seas) and Peach Fuzz (TOKYOPOP), though I'm probably biased towards Peach Fuzz because I own two ferrets myself and have personally played out some of that manga's chapters in real life.
Even the most devoted of Western manga fans will admit that the nascent genre has a major image problem. Part of the difficulty is that manga fans don't know exactly what to make of it. Many believe (and manga publishers have historically told them) that Japanese manga is the only "real" manga, and anything else is half-baked. End result: Fans point out all the lowlights of bad Western manga—incorrect proportions, US-style art sensibilities, little greater-than signs for noses—and dismiss the entire genre based on that.
"When I first started Megatokyo, there was a huge bias against American creators," manga artist Fred Gallagher explains. "There was an ingrained attitude that if it's not made by a Japanese creator, it sucks. The problem was the shallow level some manga-inspired works had a tendency to reach. So many attempts at the 'manga style' had all the stereotypes of Japanese manga without any of the depth or subtlety. People didn't get the same feel from some of the American attempts that they did from Japanese manga."
Mike Schwark, half of the team behind TOKYOPOP's Van Von Hunter, gives us his take on the matter: "We're obviously such big fans of anime and manga that it's had a major impact on our own artwork. You would think other fans would be supportive of the fact that we're expressing it, rather than being so opposed to it. As an artist who loves manga, should I just lament that I was born in the wrong country and resign myself to drawing superhero comics?"
What Gallagher says about the early attempts at "manga style" is true enough—thumbing through some older issues of the late Studio Ironcat's AmeriManga magazine can be a harrowing experience. Still, let's think about the original definition of the word "manga" for a moment. As far as the Japanese language is concerned, "manga" can cover any form of sequential art, including US superhero comics (although there are other terms for those). It doesn't mean "comics read right-to-left" or "comics with big eyes" or "comics where the ladies take their tops off every five pages"—anything suitably comic-y is fair game.
"Manga is not just one particular style of art or story, but a full spectrum of genres and art styles that differ greatly from one creator's work to the next," says Lindsay Cibos, co-creator of Peach Fuzz. "There's no reason why one's ethnicity and origin should define whether or not a particular work is manga, so long as the creator can capture the qualities and spirit of manga."
Which is well and good, but if the word "manga" doesn't have any connotations in and of itself, then what is the spirit of manga? It's easy to make anecdotal comparisons between what Japanese manga does right and what US comics do "wrong," but nobody can give a concise, comprehensive definition of the word "manga." The best definition I could come up with is, "a comic with long, cohesive storytelling, instantly identifiable characters, satisfying pace and a definitive conclusion"—and that says nothing about art style, which (like it or not) plays a big part in most readers' eyes.
So what does that mean for non-Japanese artists who want to produce manga? The question seems difficult, but I think the answer's pretty straightforward—quit wasting time pursuing all the little details that make manga art "manga art," and concentrate instead on what makes manga "manga."
"The misconception that only Japanese creators can do work that appeals the way manga does exists because manga hasn't really been influencing people here for very long," says Gallagher. "It takes a long time to develop creators who can produce works that appeal to people in the same way. Give it a few more years, and with so many young and talented people now being influenced by it, I think you will see a lot of work surfacing that will appeal to people the same way the Japanese stuff does."
In other words, it isn't a Japanese thing—it's a storytelling thing, and if more Western artists pick up on that, the future of this so-called bastard child of "real manga" could be brighter than you'd think.
Since none of us can draw to save our lives, we filled the final page with a heaping helping of text
Made in America
Even the most devoted of Western manga fans will admit that the nascent genre has a major image problem
Quick! Think of your absolute favorite Japanese comic—Dragon Ball, Naruto, Fruits Basket, any of them will do. Recall all your favorite scenes, the ones that made you laugh or moved you emotionally. Now pretend that the author of this beloved comic wasn't Japanese—instead of having an exotic name like Rumiko Takahashi or Akira Toriyama, he or she went by something like Kelly Schmid or Martin Simms. Would that fact reduce your appreciation of the manga? Or, to put it another way, would the manga's American roots have made you so indifferent to the series that you wouldn't have picked it up in the first place?
Several US manga publishers are banking on the notion that you wouldn't care much. In just the past year, dozens of original manga have been published by people all over the world, from southern California to the Philippines. Some webcomics drawn in "manga style" have made the jump to physical books, and one outfit, Seven Seas Publishing, releases nothing but Western manga—comics written in English, but that still read right-to-left, Japanese style. This Western manga varies widely in quality; while some have that unmistakably generic How to Draw Manga feel to its art, much of it expertly drawn and just as entertaining as "real" manga. I personally dig Blade for Barter (Seven Seas) and Peach Fuzz (TOKYOPOP), though I'm probably biased towards Peach Fuzz because I own two ferrets myself and have personally played out some of that manga's chapters in real life.
Even the most devoted of Western manga fans will admit that the nascent genre has a major image problem. Part of the difficulty is that manga fans don't know exactly what to make of it. Many believe (and manga publishers have historically told them) that Japanese manga is the only "real" manga, and anything else is half-baked. End result: Fans point out all the lowlights of bad Western manga—incorrect proportions, US-style art sensibilities, little greater-than signs for noses—and dismiss the entire genre based on that.
"When I first started Megatokyo, there was a huge bias against American creators," manga artist Fred Gallagher explains. "There was an ingrained attitude that if it's not made by a Japanese creator, it sucks. The problem was the shallow level some manga-inspired works had a tendency to reach. So many attempts at the 'manga style' had all the stereotypes of Japanese manga without any of the depth or subtlety. People didn't get the same feel from some of the American attempts that they did from Japanese manga."
Mike Schwark, half of the team behind TOKYOPOP's Van Von Hunter, gives us his take on the matter: "We're obviously such big fans of anime and manga that it's had a major impact on our own artwork. You would think other fans would be supportive of the fact that we're expressing it, rather than being so opposed to it. As an artist who loves manga, should I just lament that I was born in the wrong country and resign myself to drawing superhero comics?"
What Gallagher says about the early attempts at "manga style" is true enough—thumbing through some older issues of the late Studio Ironcat's AmeriManga magazine can be a harrowing experience. Still, let's think about the original definition of the word "manga" for a moment. As far as the Japanese language is concerned, "manga" can cover any form of sequential art, including US superhero comics (although there are other terms for those). It doesn't mean "comics read right-to-left" or "comics with big eyes" or "comics where the ladies take their tops off every five pages"—anything suitably comic-y is fair game.
"Manga is not just one particular style of art or story, but a full spectrum of genres and art styles that differ greatly from one creator's work to the next," says Lindsay Cibos, co-creator of Peach Fuzz. "There's no reason why one's ethnicity and origin should define whether or not a particular work is manga, so long as the creator can capture the qualities and spirit of manga."
Which is well and good, but if the word "manga" doesn't have any connotations in and of itself, then what is the spirit of manga? It's easy to make anecdotal comparisons between what Japanese manga does right and what US comics do "wrong," but nobody can give a concise, comprehensive definition of the word "manga." The best definition I could come up with is, "a comic with long, cohesive storytelling, instantly identifiable characters, satisfying pace and a definitive conclusion"—and that says nothing about art style, which (like it or not) plays a big part in most readers' eyes.
So what does that mean for non-Japanese artists who want to produce manga? The question seems difficult, but I think the answer's pretty straightforward—quit wasting time pursuing all the little details that make manga art "manga art," and concentrate instead on what makes manga "manga."
"The misconception that only Japanese creators can do work that appeals the way manga does exists because manga hasn't really been influencing people here for very long," says Gallagher. "It takes a long time to develop creators who can produce works that appeal to people in the same way. Give it a few more years, and with so many young and talented people now being influenced by it, I think you will see a lot of work surfacing that will appeal to people the same way the Japanese stuff does."
In other words, it isn't a Japanese thing—it's a storytelling thing, and if more Western artists pick up on that, the future of this so-called bastard child of "real manga" could be brighter than you'd think.
—Kevin Gifford
Associate Editor
Associate Editor
Obvious disclaimer: directly transferring the excerpt into text like this is not done to plagiarize. This is done just for accessibility purposes and because it seems the article kinda fits into this thread's discussion of non-Japanese "manga" in the first place. I have not put any of my commentary nor editing into the transcript for archiving/accessibility's sake.
Never read it, though I saw a video talking about it recently.
@Fario-P I enjoyed Megatokyo at the time. I had to stop reading after catching up to the latest chapter, because the comic is updated far too slowly to be enjoyable. |
その目だれの目? |
Nov 21, 2024 7:29 PM
#13
Reply to Lucifrost
@Fario-P
I enjoyed Megatokyo at the time. I had to stop reading after catching up to the latest chapter, because the comic is updated far too slowly to be enjoyable.
I enjoyed Megatokyo at the time. I had to stop reading after catching up to the latest chapter, because the comic is updated far too slowly to be enjoyable.
@Lucifrost I had first heard of it years ago, kinda unbelievable that it's still continuing on to this day. Never read it though. What about other anime-inspired works? Do you have thoughts on shows like Avatar, Teen Titans, Winx Club, Code Lyoko, etc.? |
Nov 21, 2024 9:37 PM
#14
Reply to Fario-P
@Lucifrost I had first heard of it years ago, kinda unbelievable that it's still continuing on to this day.
Never read it though.
What about other anime-inspired works? Do you have thoughts on shows like Avatar, Teen Titans, Winx Club, Code Lyoko, etc.?
Never read it though.
What about other anime-inspired works? Do you have thoughts on shows like Avatar, Teen Titans, Winx Club, Code Lyoko, etc.?
@Fario-P I've never been interested in any of those other shows except Teen Titans. It is good and reminds me of Cyborg 009 (which I watched later). I like the standalone episodes of Teen Titans more than the overarching storylines. |
その目だれの目? |
Nov 22, 2024 11:41 PM
#15
First of all thanks for the ping. The covers look pretty cool. I didn't know there were ppl inspired by animanga creating comics n stuff. seems interesting tho. I think we need a platform to freely chat and discuss things. I find the club system pretty annoying. |
Nov 23, 2024 9:12 AM
#16
As a bangladeshi, the anime community is still pretty niche though I do think it has grown a lot in the past few years. Im not very sure about the Manga side because i've only come across like 3 people who read a decent bit of it. Almost all youngsters or even people in their 20s know about anime and have somewhat of a familiarity with manga. And to answer your last question, no, I don't think many people know of this comic. Partly to the fact that many people in my country like to glorify japan and grow a inferiority complex. Thus people overlook this kinds of comics influenced by Japan because they think "This isnt worth reading because the Japanese are the founding fathers of manga therefore they WILL do it better than us." |
Nov 25, 2024 9:12 AM
#17
Hi @Fario-P! First off, sorry for not getting back sooner. To preface, yes, I am indeed from Bangladesh. Fario-P said: Since these kinds of derivatives (for lack of a better term?) are not considered "anime" and "manga" in that they are Japan-produced for a primarily native Japanese audience I do agree with you on the point that Anime-Inspired media are not really "Anime". (Same goes for Manga) They're a thing of their own. Sure, they might share a similar theme and art-style, but in essence, they're very different. They're almost even incomparable. Fario-P said: Are there any South Asians who can tell me what the anime community is like over there You wanted to know more about the Anime/Manga scene we have here. I'll share my experiences. To my knowledge, Anime has always been quite popular here in Bangladesh, at least among the youth. I'm sure many other South Asians can relate to this, but growing up almost all of us were hooked on Anime at some point. (Some are still hooked to this day, like me) Most 2000s kids like me grew up watching anime on TV. Granted, the Anime we had back then was mostly kiddy Anime from the 90s. To add to that, almost all of it was dubbed in either Hindi, Bengali or English. Almost none of it was in Japanese. Doraemon, Shin Chan, Mojakou, Kiteretsu, Pokemon and Dragon Ball are some that I can think of at the moment, but we had heaps more. I even remember anime like Naruto being aired on Animax back in 2012/2013. Suffice it to say, Anime has always been popular here. What does fascinate me is how people here have slowly transitioned from some of these kiddy anime to the more mature ones. And, from talking to bunch of people, this is what I think transpired. Back in 2009/2010 the internet here was getting faster and more affordable. By 2012/2013 most people (at least the ones around me) already had internet access capable of streaming videos. Many, having nothing better to do, would go online to watch some of these dubbed anime. Many simply sought to watch newer not-yet-dubbed episodes of the dubbed anime we already had. Whatever the reason people would slowly start to realize that there are other cool anime, albeit ones that are not dubbed. This is when and how many of us slowly made the switch to watching mature subbed anime for the first time. This is obviously a process that is, to some extent and for some, still happening to this day. More and more people have access to the internet now when just a couple of years ago they didn't. This is especially evident in the rural parts where a majority of our population lives. The aforementioned process continues for them. When you pair that with the fact that almost all of the 2000s and 2010s kids here grew up watching dubbed anime, it's no wonder that Bangladesh (and South Asia in general) is seeing a boom in Anime consumption. Fario-P said: and if they know that this magazine and its exclusive Webtoons exist? I wanna thank you for introducing me to Source?, as this is the 1st I've heard about this. It looks very interesting, and I'll be keeping an eye out for it. Fario-P said: Can any of you tell me what you think about new anime-inspired products like this? This is quite intriguing. We do have popular cartoonists like Ahsan Habib and Shahrier Khan, but we do not have enough authors/artists making manga-inspired comics. Personally, I'm not that big into "anime-inspired" media. You mentioned Studio Padma, it looks interesting. I've heard of a few others. (here's one) It's always interesting seeing "anime-inspired" studios. It makes the Anime Community we have here stronger, which as a fan of this medium I obviously appreciate. And lastly, @Fario-P I wanna thank you for the mention. It's always fun engaging in the MAL forums. |
Nov 26, 2024 7:35 PM
#18
Reply to WtfAmIdoinghaha
As a bangladeshi, the anime community is still pretty niche though I do think it has grown a lot in the past few years. Im not very sure about the Manga side because i've only come across like 3 people who read a decent bit of it. Almost all youngsters or even people in their 20s know about anime and have somewhat of a familiarity with manga. And to answer your last question, no, I don't think many people know of this comic. Partly to the fact that many people in my country like to glorify japan and grow a inferiority complex. Thus people overlook this kinds of comics influenced by Japan because they think "This isnt worth reading because the Japanese are the founding fathers of manga therefore they WILL do it better than us."
I hope Rhyme doesn't mind if I respond to @WtfAmIdoinghaha first, thank you for replying! That's true, even I was kinda prone to typical weeaboo over-promoting-Japan behavior when I was really young. So I am not surprised or even that judgmental towards those who feel like they want to read "real" manga, after all, I had that mindset myself once upon a time. I shared this topic to a friend of mine, who I think suggested something along the lines of works like what Source?. magazine is producing should incorporate the culture and customs of their own country into their future originals. If that's indeed what my friend said, then I agree! I think it would be interesting to see this line of Bangladeshi manga-style comics have more personalized theme/imagery/etc into their works; instead of making something that you might see in a typical shounen magazine, maybe some of these works should feature stories with Bengali protagonists, Bengali culture, etc. It'd be a good way to promote tourism over to Bangladesh if there were works that got popular heavily set in the country, that's for sure lol |
Nov 26, 2024 7:50 PM
#19
Reply to CyberNinjaNJ-san
よ! I forgot my friend was also talking about Source too. gotta take a look into this.
Huh, I guess @CyberNinjaNJ-san is the only one here who knew about Source?. before I decided to share about it! Maybe if I tag some more South Asian (?) users, there might be some more who might want to talk about it with us as well...? @Zhongyush @Sam_Op @Bengali_Senpai @Iamtrueotaku @Schmensei @Pashan_Otaku @saifurhisam @HimeruAwaru123 @MasashiAtlas @Kanroji_Pakhi @Ahnaf_Hossain @Ashique_013 @SenpaiOO @Shikto @zeem2964 @taibittehad @Faiyaz007 @Ani_Shihab @Spriggan09 @Warrior_Ariyan Forgive me if you don't like pings and/or aren't South Asian/Desi... I hope you all don't mind talking about anime-inspired works in general regardless ^_^ Everyone else is of course welcome to talk about famous shows/series like Avatar, it's just I rarely find any Desi users lol |
Nov 28, 2024 6:55 AM
#20
Reply to Fario-P
Huh, I guess @CyberNinjaNJ-san is the only one here who knew about Source?. before I decided to share about it!
Maybe if I tag some more South Asian (?) users, there might be some more who might want to talk about it with us as well...?
@Zhongyush @Sam_Op @Bengali_Senpai @Iamtrueotaku @Schmensei @Pashan_Otaku @saifurhisam @HimeruAwaru123 @MasashiAtlas @Kanroji_Pakhi @Ahnaf_Hossain @Ashique_013 @SenpaiOO @Shikto @zeem2964 @taibittehad @Faiyaz007 @Ani_Shihab @Spriggan09 @Warrior_Ariyan
Forgive me if you don't like pings and/or aren't South Asian/Desi...
I hope you all don't mind talking about anime-inspired works in general regardless ^_^
Everyone else is of course welcome to talk about famous shows/series like Avatar, it's just I rarely find any Desi users lol
Maybe if I tag some more South Asian (?) users, there might be some more who might want to talk about it with us as well...?
@Zhongyush @Sam_Op @Bengali_Senpai @Iamtrueotaku @Schmensei @Pashan_Otaku @saifurhisam @HimeruAwaru123 @MasashiAtlas @Kanroji_Pakhi @Ahnaf_Hossain @Ashique_013 @SenpaiOO @Shikto @zeem2964 @taibittehad @Faiyaz007 @Ani_Shihab @Spriggan09 @Warrior_Ariyan
Forgive me if you don't like pings and/or aren't South Asian/Desi...
I hope you all don't mind talking about anime-inspired works in general regardless ^_^
Everyone else is of course welcome to talk about famous shows/series like Avatar, it's just I rarely find any Desi users lol
@Fario-P ah It's okay. I really don't get pings here usually as I've recently opened an account in this forum site. In fact, I'm interested to know more about this. From what I've heard, the team behind Source might've been looking for some artists. Source is actually a magazine with some manga included in it (I haven't read it yet, my friend told me about this.) If anyone knows more about this, feel free to ping me, as I've recently got active in this forum. |
Nov 29, 2024 4:53 PM
#21
Well I'm glad you created this thread @Fario-P and here's my thought on the backlash toward OEL manga (and that include non-Japanese Asian graphic novels including manhwa/webtoon and manhua): I thought the backlash was stupid and not only elitists, but in my opinion it shows the worse in weeabooism and anti-non Japanese Asian racism and bigotry. I've written something like this on a similar thread in the manga section earlier today. I know this because I was a witness to anti-OEL manga backlash when I became a new anime fan, I mean back in 2007/2008, there was definitely a backlash toward OEL manga and also toward manhwa/webtoons and manhua because they were "imitating" Japanese manga. Remember back then the manga fanbase was not mainstream like it was today. If you want to know how bad the backlash toward OEL manga, I'm lucky this topic/thread on ANN from 2007/2008 is still preserved here, and I got involved in 2008 on that same ANN thread. And oh boy, the backlash toward OEL manga was very intense back then (the preserved archived ANN thread has all the evidences you need). I kept defending OEL manga and other non-Japanese Asian graphic novel at that time (this was before manhwas and webtoons have now gained mainstream acceptance, compared to back then, it was super niche). If you want to see more evidence of the anti-OEL manga backlash outside of that ANN thread from late 2000's, I'll quote this from a ANN's This week in Anime article from June of this year: On ANN, I said: I just want to say I did some digging on the website from many years ago, there are still relics from 2009/2010 webpages (thank goodness those still survived after many years) that showed how fiercely and heated OEL manga faced amongst anime/manga fandom back then. 2010 Wordpress discussion entry: Why aren’t manga fans more open to OEL manga? And I'll quote these people on their thought: Kris on WordPress said: There’s definitely some elitism involved. If you haunt fan boards, you’ll see these people come out, crying that OEL manga isn’t really manga. That by definition, manga is Japanese comics, period. Which…isn’t false. Some manga fans resent that OEL is given the label “manga.” And many tack on an instant stigma because of this. Apple on WordPress said: What’s really disturbing, to me, is that sometimes this bias extends itself to Japanese series that appear to be OEL (I have heard several times that Est Em was an “OEL artist,” said in a negative way–like, “I would like that manga but she’s an OEL artist”). A lot of fans refuse to touch anything OEL, or anything that appears to be OEL. I think that several series were greenlit and published that really shouldn’t have been. I don’t want to name any names, because that wouldn’t be nice >__> but when you have so many bad series touting the OEL flag, it leaves a bad impression of what OEL is and what OEL has the potential to be. Essentially, the ratio of crap series to non-crap series is too high to leave a good impression, in a market (“manga”) that is already distilled into series that have proven that they can hold their own. James Leung on WordPress said: This argument has been around the anime/manga community for years. So if you’ve read one of my rants on other message boards or blogs, you know what I’m about to write. For better or worse, the US manga market was built around the fetishization of Japanese culture. It wasn’t marketed as high end graphic novels or bizarre adult seinen/gekiga. It was the Japanese or foreigness of the product that sold books. Jason Thompson calls it, “the thrill of Japaneseness”. Moreover, the market has been so carefully crafted and molded to sell Japan that any clever dissemblance of OEL as manga will be vehemently attacked as disingenuous. The ones who shout the loudest about OEL are strongly tied to this characterization of manga. In Japan, all comics are called manga. This includes everything from one-page four panel manga to full 1000-page omnibus tankoubon covering a broad range of genres. In reality, only a fraction of Japanese manga and dojinshi are ever printed in English. If you only read manga in English, for all intensive purposes, you are probably reading only the best of the best (marketing wise). The US market has been handpicked by manga companies and editors. In a very subtle way, your entire manga diet has been already carefully curated and chosen for you. So, it’s unfair to compare the infant OEL industry to the best of the Japanese manga industry. I also stumble upon Tim Beedle, a former manga editor who had a 2010 blog entry titled "manga is not a dirty word" about why OEL manga face backlash from western manga fandom. I'll quote the blog: Tim Beedle on his blog said: Before I go any further, I should probably make it clear that I’m writing this as someone who was once ridiculously biased against manga. I started at Tokyopop with an inherent love for superheroes and a complete lack of interest in Japanese graphic novels. Had I not landed my job there, it’s unlikely I’d even know what a tankoubon was, let alone actually sat down and read them. But I still read Bizenghast. I still read Nightschool. I read Re:Play through to its conclusion (and not just because I was the editor of that series for a while). If I have any interest in the subject matter of a comic, I’ll read it, regardless of the style. So why is it that comics drawn by manga-influenced artists (other than Adam Warren) seem to always struggle to find an audience in the United States? Unfortunately, I still think there’s a lot of misunderstanding among both readers and publishers. They hear manga and they instantly think of big eyes and flowery backgrounds. The problem is that far too many people still cling to the idea that manga is a style. Manga is not a style. It’s a format, and even within that format there’s a lot of diversity. To say someone is a manga artist is no different than to say they’re a comic book artist. And just like with comic book artists, manga artists can draw in vastly different styles. I mean, there are several other webpages from 20+ something years ago that are still preserved to this days that show how much OEL manga face a lot of backlash from manga fans (or should I say ignorant manga fans that probably have not read American comic books or self-loath their American/US identities): 2013 blog entry: The Problem of OEL Mangaska 2014 follow up blog entry: Revisiting the notion of the OEL mangaka 2009 Toonzone/Anime Superhero forum: OEL Manga: Good or bad idea? So if you want to know how bad the backlash toward OEL manga is, then there you go. At the time of the OEL manga debate, I'm not sure how much backlash manhwa or anything non-Japanese Asian medium of similar format face backlash from manga fan and attacking them because they're not Japanese, but it does seem to show there are manga fan that take their Japanese fetish/Japanese yellow fever too far. My question is: What happened to those anti-OEL manga folks? Did they moved on? Did they no longer read Japanese manga due to whatever made them stop reading manga? Is this why OEL manga today don't face backlash today like they used to 20+ years ago? That's what I like to know, what caused the anti-OEL backlash to die. So what happened to the anti-OEL manga backlash (and along with it, the backlash toward manhwa/webtoons and manhua)? It somehow died down in I think around 2014/2015, this was like a few years before anime/manga became mainstream in the US/western area. So what happened, I had couple of theories written on that same ANN article thread: On ANN, I said: I hate to say this, but: the death of the OEL manga backlash happened a few years before anime/manga started to gain mainstream appeal in the west, and I know this because I think around after 2014, the backlash against OEL manga just either quiet down or come to a complete halt. Anime/manga didn't gained mainstream appeal in the west until I think after 2016 (let say 2018 is the date when anime/manga started to made it's headway into the mainstream in the US/west). I think I have couple of theories why the backlash against OEL manga just stopped: -Maybe the people that found out about Shotaro Ishinomori's Legend of Zelda: A link to the past comic that was published in Nintendo Power in the early 90's (the one that Viz Media would re-published in 2015) was not a manga when they found out many years later, I think it's possible that maybe there were anti-OEL purists and elitists that are fans of the Zelda franchise that may have first read the comic/OEL manga when it was first published in Nintendo Power back in the 90's and at that time, some of the anti-OEL folks that read them at that time were probably not anime/manga fan and probably didn't know what manga is or know who Shotaro Ishinomori until many years later. Now let assume that some of the anti-OEL haters/elitists that have first read the Zelda OEL manga/comic in the Nintendo Power magazine may have found out about the comic's non-Japanese origin and the author being Shotaro Ishinomori (I assume that most of the anti-OEL elitists/haters would've gained a lot of knowledge about important mangaka and would've been familiar with Shotaro Ishinomori) must've shocked many anti-OEL haters/elitists that they read an OEL manga before they became fan and also the revelation that the legendary Shotaro Ishinomori worked on a OEL manga probably thanks to both Viz Media republishing it in 2015 and Wikia/Fandom entry information on Ishinomori's A Link to the Past comic wasn't a manga given that it was first published in USA before it got published in Japanese a year later. So theory #1: The anti-OEL elitists/haters that may have been exposed to Ishinomori's Zelda: A Link to the Past comic/OEL manga in Nintendo Power may have found out many years later that what they read was a OEL manga. After that revelation, it made them question and challenge their views on OEL manga. Another theory and this is my theory #2: Eldo Yoshimizu's works like Gamma Draconis and Ryuko not appearing on Anilist and MAL might have shocked anti-OEL haters and made them challenge their views on the definition of manga. As I previously stated on my 1st post of the thread, I have to assume before Ryuko and Gamma Draconis got official English translation, they must've found it's way into scanlation, and I don't know how many anti-OEL haters that may read one or both of his works must've been surprised when they find out that MAL and Anilist didn't count both of them as manga. For Ryuko, it was self-published in 2010, but didn't get an official publication until 2016-2018 in France, it didn't get an official Japanese publication until last year. This is my speculation but it's possible that anti-OEL haters that may have read one or two of Eldo Yoshimizu's works and were baffled by why Anilist and MAL didn't classify them as manga despite Yoshimizu's work resemble a manga (right to left orientation, black & white illustration), so it's possible those anti-OEL haters/elitists that read his work may have changed their own views on OEL and manga-like comic. Theory #3: The acceptance of Korean pop culture/Hallyu contents including the rise of manhwa/webtoons mainstream popularity may have helped nearly eliminated anti-OEL backlash. Anime adaptation of manhwa/webtoons could've also contributed too. We know that the backlash and hatred toward OEL manga also led to these same haters hating on manhwa or any non-Japanese Asian comic/graphic novels. Given that many anime and manga fans have crossed over to K-pop and K-dramas thanks to K-drama adaptation of manga (ie: Boys over Flowers, Playful Kiss, To the Beautiful You, etc...). I have to assume that there may have been anti-OEL haters that could've been caught up on the K-drama/Hallyu craze. I guess crossing over to K-drama then to K-pop must have opened up their mind to checking out & reading manhwa/webtoon and voila, the hatred toward non-Japanese manga-like comic (including OEL manga) goes away once you been exposed to Korean pop culture. Also you factor in K-drama and anime adaptation of webtoons/manhwa, that probably break down the anti-OEL/anti-manhwa vitriol coming out of those haters. So yeah, those probably are the 3 reasons why I think the hatred and backlash toward OEL manga (including manhwa/webtoons) died even before anime/manga became mainstream. Those are just my theories, but I'm not 100% definitive on why the backlash toward OEL manga stopped, and what's the true reasons for it. About the backlash toward western animation that is influenced by anime. I guess when Netflix's Castlevania came out, I guess the hatred toward anime-influenced animation just stopped I guess. Well that and the rise and popularity of adult animation in the US and elsewhere must have stopped the backlash toward anime-influenced animation. I mean even before the pandemic, there was a rise in popularity of adult animation: Cartoon Brew's article on Adult Animation boom in the US 2023 article: Adult Animation data reveals demand growth far outpacing supply The Guardian article: That’s not all folks: why is there so much animated TV for adults? It's possible when adult animation start using anime-styled animation, maybe that backlash sort of goes away. I'm not 100% sure on why the backlash stopped. |
Nov 30, 2024 8:14 AM
#22
Fario-P said: Huh, I guess @CyberNinjaNJ-san is the only one here who knew about Source?. before I decided to share about it! Maybe if I tag some more South Asian (?) users, there might be some more who might want to talk about it with us as well...? @Zhongyush @Sam_Op @Bengali_Senpai @Iamtrueotaku @Schmensei @Pashan_Otaku @saifurhisam @HimeruAwaru123 @MasashiAtlas @Kanroji_Pakhi @Ahnaf_Hossain @Ashique_013 @SenpaiOO @Shikto @zeem2964 @taibittehad @Faiyaz007 @Ani_Shihab @Spriggan09 @Warrior_Ariyan Forgive me if you don't like pings and/or aren't South Asian/Desi... I hope you all don't mind talking about anime-inspired works in general regardless ^_^ Everyone else is of course welcome to talk about famous shows/series like Avatar, it's just I rarely find any Desi users lol I don't mind the ping. But how did you know I am from South Asia? lol Anyways, may I know what this particular thread is all about? I saw you discussing stuffs regarding a bengali webtoon which apparently is something I find genuinely intriguing. And apologies for the late reply, I don't quite use My Anime list on a frequent basis haha |
Nov 30, 2024 8:30 AM
#23
Fario-P said: ...yeah, I don't remember the last time I made a thread, either. XD Anime and manga's influence has always loomed large all over the world to the point where these foreign markets and consumers started producing their own inspired products themselves. These products include the infamous Original English Language (OEL) manga, American anime, French anime, Italian anime, Saturday AM's Diverse Manga, so on and so on... if you're an anime fan who is also able to name a couple of these kinds before you even clicked on this thread, then you clearly already get the idea. Since these kinds of derivatives (for lack of a better term?) are not considered "anime" and "manga" in that they are Japan-produced for a primarily native Japanese audience, I have decided to post this thread outside the popular Anime Discussion and the not-so-much Manga Discussion Board. They're literally considered a different type of entertainment by many including me on this site, and this Music & Entertainment board could use some more traction anyway. Series that just vaguely look like their inspiration and share some direction, for example with things like serialized drama cartoons, chibi proportions, magical girl tropes and transformation scenes in the case of "Sailor Moon copies" (?), etc., but are very clearly Westernized or whatever term compared to what Japan tends to produce with their shows/comics. Now now, you all know me, this is something I do want to talk about, but there are tons of threads over the years that already talk about things like TokyoPop's "Amerimanga"/OEL manga/Rising Stars of Manga, and asking for opinions on Avatar and if it is an anime, and whatever. If I wanted to talk about just this, I could have just revived one of those without any care in the world lol. I do still want to know what the anime community currently thinks about these anime-inspired shows and books, but I do have something else new to talk about and want to see if I can get any more perspective on this specific part. ★-⋆-⋆-⋆-⋆-⋆-⋆-⋆-⋆-⋆-★ So recently I heard that Bangladesh, a country my younger self never would even imagine would care about anime especially with how religious the country is to my limited knowledge and experience, now has their very first manga magazine and original comics for their native market. The magazine is called Source?, and they aim to produce original, manga-inspired comics, along with bringing over manga's influence to their Bengali-language market. Now this and several Bangla anime-inspired companies (such as Studio Padma) has me remembering about a question I've had since I started being more of a regular on MAL and on its forums and Clubs feature...... are there any South Asian weebs out there? Are there any South Asians who can tell me what the anime community is like over there, and what kinds of series they like, and if they know that this magazine and its exclusive Webtoons exist? Can any of you tell me what you think about new anime-inspired products like this? DO ANY OF YOU FELLOW DESIS WANT MAGICAL GIRL SERIES LIKE I DO TOO? I genuinely want to know! So I hope you don't mind if I tag some of you South Asian users for your opinion. @RhymePlays @JehadKun @Raiden_4 @WtfAmIdoinghaha @CryoBlood61 @GreyratAnimelist @yameteKudasaiKun @aurora_yuuki @Kreinegen @AlbiKun @IseKai_Kan0j0 @CyberNinjaNJ-san @SA796 @sagor @Emiria-tan-EMT- @Ristoki @Animan0_0 @mostakeajka @Dreamxer @aumia @Ashraf9053 @Himalqwertyuio @Zaahin__ @SazeedSatoshi @naeemsinin8040 @Obliess9 @uzaerhossain @zaahraa @Labi_uwu @Nubah I just can't help but find all this news amusing... please share to more Bangla users if you know any more!! But yeah, whether or not you want to talk about non-Japanese animanga in general or just the fact that I might be able to finally put on some halal Bangla anime that my mom will not kick me out of the house with big zaru lahtee amar ke sesa debe for putting on... come on over! Let's talk and have some fun! Hmm..I believe the anime community in the country where I am from (India) is getting bigger and bigger. Infact popular celebrities from both the bollywood and tollywood (Telugu based film industry) industries are promoting them and voice dubbing at a same time. India too have released a manga inspired comic named "Trio" which I believe is available on Amazon. And the creator apparently is from West Bengal. It will soon get it's anime adaptation as well in the January of 2025. You may give the trailer a watch. P.S I wish karmachakra was a success as it was solely based on Bengali culture representing our traditions. |
Dec 4, 2024 9:32 AM
#24
Thank you very much for your insight @mdo7! I can't lie, I did have a bit of that elitist mindset when I first heard about these kinds of manga when I was young. I think anyone can easily see how OEL manga and its ilk are attempts to capitalize on the trend anime's popularity has made. But now I am more willing to be open about any comics I see that might be potentially interesting regardless of the country of origin... and besides, I may not be Japanese but I still love drawing in the shoujo-esque style I ended up growing my art style into. mdo7 said: Theory #3: The acceptance of Korean pop culture/Hallyu contents including the rise of manhwa/webtoons mainstream popularity may have helped nearly eliminated anti-OEL backlash. Anime adaptation of manhwa/webtoons could've also contributed too. We know that the backlash and hatred toward OEL manga also led to these same haters hating on manhwa or any non-Japanese Asian comic/graphic novels. Given that many anime and manga fans have crossed over to K-pop and K-dramas thanks to K-drama adaptation of manga (ie: Boys over Flowers, Playful Kiss, To the Beautiful You, etc...). I have to assume that there may have been anti-OEL haters that could've been caught up on the K-drama/Hallyu craze. I guess crossing over to K-drama then to K-pop must have opened up their mind to checking out & reading manhwa/webtoon and voila, the hatred toward non-Japanese manga-like comic (including OEL manga) goes away once you been exposed to Korean pop culture. Also you factor in K-drama and anime adaptation of webtoons/manhwa, that probably break down the anti-OEL/anti-manhwa vitriol coming out of those haters. About the backlash toward western animation that is influenced by anime. I guess when Netflix's Castlevania came out, I guess the hatred toward anime-influenced animation just stopped I guess. Well that and the rise and popularity of adult animation in the US and elsewhere must have stopped the backlash toward anime-influenced animation. I think these two theories of yours in particular are why I don't hear as much hate for American-inspired works anymore.. . . It's possible when adult animation start using anime-styled animation, maybe that backlash sort of goes away. I'm not 100% sure on why the backlash stopped. But then again, nowadays I hardly hear about any inspired works. I only knew about Saturday AM cuz their comics started showing up on library shelves. |
Dec 4, 2024 10:04 AM
#25
Reply to Fario-P
Thank you very much for your insight @mdo7!
I can't lie, I did have a bit of that elitist mindset when I first heard about these kinds of manga when I was young. I think anyone can easily see how OEL manga and its ilk are attempts to capitalize on the trend anime's popularity has made. But now I am more willing to be open about any comics I see that might be potentially interesting regardless of the country of origin... and besides, I may not be Japanese but I still love drawing in the shoujo-esque style I ended up growing my art style into.
But then again, nowadays I hardly hear about any inspired works. I only knew about Saturday AM cuz their comics started showing up on library shelves.
I can't lie, I did have a bit of that elitist mindset when I first heard about these kinds of manga when I was young. I think anyone can easily see how OEL manga and its ilk are attempts to capitalize on the trend anime's popularity has made. But now I am more willing to be open about any comics I see that might be potentially interesting regardless of the country of origin... and besides, I may not be Japanese but I still love drawing in the shoujo-esque style I ended up growing my art style into.
mdo7 said:
Theory #3: The acceptance of Korean pop culture/Hallyu contents including the rise of manhwa/webtoons mainstream popularity may have helped nearly eliminated anti-OEL backlash. Anime adaptation of manhwa/webtoons could've also contributed too. We know that the backlash and hatred toward OEL manga also led to these same haters hating on manhwa or any non-Japanese Asian comic/graphic novels. Given that many anime and manga fans have crossed over to K-pop and K-dramas thanks to K-drama adaptation of manga (ie: Boys over Flowers, Playful Kiss, To the Beautiful You, etc...). I have to assume that there may have been anti-OEL haters that could've been caught up on the K-drama/Hallyu craze. I guess crossing over to K-drama then to K-pop must have opened up their mind to checking out & reading manhwa/webtoon and voila, the hatred toward non-Japanese manga-like comic (including OEL manga) goes away once you been exposed to Korean pop culture. Also you factor in K-drama and anime adaptation of webtoons/manhwa, that probably break down the anti-OEL/anti-manhwa vitriol coming out of those haters.
Theory #3: The acceptance of Korean pop culture/Hallyu contents including the rise of manhwa/webtoons mainstream popularity may have helped nearly eliminated anti-OEL backlash. Anime adaptation of manhwa/webtoons could've also contributed too. We know that the backlash and hatred toward OEL manga also led to these same haters hating on manhwa or any non-Japanese Asian comic/graphic novels. Given that many anime and manga fans have crossed over to K-pop and K-dramas thanks to K-drama adaptation of manga (ie: Boys over Flowers, Playful Kiss, To the Beautiful You, etc...). I have to assume that there may have been anti-OEL haters that could've been caught up on the K-drama/Hallyu craze. I guess crossing over to K-drama then to K-pop must have opened up their mind to checking out & reading manhwa/webtoon and voila, the hatred toward non-Japanese manga-like comic (including OEL manga) goes away once you been exposed to Korean pop culture. Also you factor in K-drama and anime adaptation of webtoons/manhwa, that probably break down the anti-OEL/anti-manhwa vitriol coming out of those haters.
About the backlash toward western animation that is influenced by anime. I guess when Netflix's Castlevania came out, I guess the hatred toward anime-influenced animation just stopped I guess. Well that and the rise and popularity of adult animation in the US and elsewhere must have stopped the backlash toward anime-influenced animation.
. . .
It's possible when adult animation start using anime-styled animation, maybe that backlash sort of goes away. I'm not 100% sure on why the backlash stopped.
I think these two theories of yours in particular are why I don't hear as much hate for American-inspired works anymore.. . .
It's possible when adult animation start using anime-styled animation, maybe that backlash sort of goes away. I'm not 100% sure on why the backlash stopped.
But then again, nowadays I hardly hear about any inspired works. I only knew about Saturday AM cuz their comics started showing up on library shelves.
Well you're welcome @Fario-P!!! But still, there is one thing that does bother me about the backlash toward OEL manga, why did it stopped? What I did noticed and I mentioned in my post is that the backlash stopped somewhere between in 2014/2015, just a few years before anime and manga have became mainstream in the west (this was before manga outsold US comic/graphic novels in the US), so the backlash stopped even before anime/manga went mainstream. But as I said, I did suspect many anti-OEL haters/elitists that also hated non-Japanese Asian graphic novels may have crossed over to K-pop and K-drama (when I say K-drama, I mean K-drama adaptation of well-known anime/manga titles. I can probably argued the same for Taiwanese drama adaptation) and when they find out some K-dramas adapted webtoons/manhwa, I guess that led them to opened up their mind to reading them and I guess that hatred/vitriol goes away, was that the same experience for you @Fario-P? What made you no longer hate OEL manga and manhwa/webtoons? Have you met any other people that used to hate OEL manga and manhwa/webtoon, and manhua before they no longer hate them? If you met them, why did they stopped hating OEL manga, what titles made them stop hating OEL manga? That's what I liked to know so I can get better understanding what made them stop hating and stopped the backlash. I'm looking forward to your response to my questions. Anyway, thanks for responding back to me, I've been waiting long for your response and your thought. |
Dec 4, 2024 5:31 PM
#27
Dec 4, 2024 6:08 PM
#28
Dec 4, 2024 6:59 PM
#29
Reply to rodmanii
@mdo7 the anime version of synthetic meat, that is disgusting
@rodmanii What's wrong with OEL manga, and western animation influenced by anime. Don't tell me you didn't watch Netflix's Castlevania? Were you aware that there are anime based on Chinese and Korean stuff? What would happen if China wanted to do animated remake of this title, (it already has a live-action Chinese drama, so I can't ruled out a Chinese animated adaptation of it). CC: @Fario-P |
Dec 5, 2024 4:47 AM
#30
Reply to mdo7
@rodmanii What's wrong with OEL manga, and western animation influenced by anime. Don't tell me you didn't watch Netflix's Castlevania? Were you aware that there are anime based on Chinese and Korean stuff? What would happen if China wanted to do animated remake of this title, (it already has a live-action Chinese drama, so I can't ruled out a Chinese animated adaptation of it).
CC: @Fario-P
CC: @Fario-P
@mdo7 i just told you, if you want to consume garbage go ahead, but dont expect others to accept this fake anime bullshit |
Dec 5, 2024 7:20 AM
#31
Reply to rodmanii
@mdo7 i just told you, if you want to consume garbage go ahead, but dont expect others to accept this fake anime bullshit
@rodmanii What if I told you an American web comic will get an anime adaptation. I think this is the first time I've seen a OEL manga getting a anime adaptation. What would happen if I don't know if MegaTokyo, Amazing Agent Luna, Aoi House, or Vampire Cheerleaders, all of these titles I just mentioned are OEL manga receive an anime adaptation in the near future? I mean why not, we saw a OEL web comic getting one, I can't ruled out the possibility the titles I listed above could get anime adaptation in the near future. I mean how would you react if these OEL manga get anime adaptation in the near future? You already saw DC, Marvel, or even lesser well-known American comics/graphic novels like Super Crooks getting anime adaptation. So how do you know OEL manga won't get them in the near future? CC: @Fario-P |
mdo7Dec 5, 2024 7:24 AM
Dec 5, 2024 10:49 AM
#32
Reply to mdo7
@rodmanii What if I told you an American web comic will get an anime adaptation. I think this is the first time I've seen a OEL manga getting a anime adaptation.
What would happen if I don't know if MegaTokyo, Amazing Agent Luna, Aoi House, or Vampire Cheerleaders, all of these titles I just mentioned are OEL manga receive an anime adaptation in the near future? I mean why not, we saw a OEL web comic getting one, I can't ruled out the possibility the titles I listed above could get anime adaptation in the near future. I mean how would you react if these OEL manga get anime adaptation in the near future? You already saw DC, Marvel, or even lesser well-known American comics/graphic novels like Super Crooks getting anime adaptation. So how do you know OEL manga won't get them in the near future?
CC: @Fario-P
What would happen if I don't know if MegaTokyo, Amazing Agent Luna, Aoi House, or Vampire Cheerleaders, all of these titles I just mentioned are OEL manga receive an anime adaptation in the near future? I mean why not, we saw a OEL web comic getting one, I can't ruled out the possibility the titles I listed above could get anime adaptation in the near future. I mean how would you react if these OEL manga get anime adaptation in the near future? You already saw DC, Marvel, or even lesser well-known American comics/graphic novels like Super Crooks getting anime adaptation. So how do you know OEL manga won't get them in the near future?
CC: @Fario-P
@mdo7 i dont know, i dont care, its nothing i would be watching, thats for sure |
Dec 5, 2024 8:14 PM
#33
RhymePlays said: Must've happened during my generation then, because when I was a baby, none of the Bangladeshi natives knew what my Pikachu doll was.You wanted to know more about the Anime/Manga scene we have here. I'll share my experiences. To my knowledge, Anime has always been quite popular here in Bangladesh, at least among the youth. I'm sure many other South Asians can relate to this, but growing up almost all of us were hooked on Anime at some point. (Some are still hooked to this day, like me) Most 2000s kids like me grew up watching anime on TV. Granted, the Anime we had back then was mostly kiddy Anime from the 90s. To add to that, almost all of it was dubbed in either Hindi, Bengali or English. Almost none of it was in Japanese. Doraemon, Shin Chan, Mojakou, Kiteretsu, Pokemon and Dragon Ball are some that I can think of at the moment, but we had heaps more. I even remember anime like Naruto being aired on Animax back in 2012/2013. Suffice it to say, Anime has always been popular here. I grew up here in America, so I didn't get to grow up with all those other anime you mentioned (aside from Pokémon and hearing about Dragon Ball). I haven't been over to Bangladesh much, but the few times I have, there were always problems with the current, so I'm surprised to hear that the internet is decently faster and affordable over there despite that past electricity issue. I wanna thank you for introducing me to Source?, as this is the 1st I've heard about this. It looks very interesting, and I'll be keeping an eye out for it. Fario-P said: Can any of you tell me what you think about new anime-inspired products like this? This is quite intriguing. We do have popular cartoonists like Ahsan Habib and Shahrier Khan, but we do not have enough authors/artists making manga-inspired comics. Personally, I'm not that big into "anime-inspired" media. You mentioned Studio Padma, it looks interesting. I've heard of a few others. (here's one) It's always interesting seeing "anime-inspired" studios. It makes the Anime Community we have here stronger, which as a fan of this medium I obviously appreciate. And lastly, @Fario-P I wanna thank you for the mention. It's always fun engaging in the MAL forums. You're welcome for the mention and introduction to this magazine even I've never heard of... Donobad, apnar sathe porichito hoi kushi hoichi! sorry, my bangla is shit |
Dec 5, 2024 9:17 PM
#34
I think this video puts a lot of my thoughts into words. Generally, I think a lot of modern pseudo-Anime looks aggressively bland. Everything is trying to look like Avatar and only takes inspiration from the same 5 mainstream Anime. Due to the landscape at the time, the authors usually had a far more varied set of influences and actually looked spot on at times. Thinking about it, there's a serious lack of "Kawaii", whereas Modern Anime Is too "Kawaii" Something older Manga/Anime influenced Comics/Cartoon was capable of getting just right. OP presented an example with Peach Fuzz, Megatokyo, Teen Titans, Winx and Code Lyoko were already mentioned but Wakfu, despite being animated in flash with janky looking rigs, looks WAY more appealing than something like VOX Machina. |
AzafuseKingToraDec 5, 2024 9:34 PM
Dec 5, 2024 10:06 PM
#35
Reply to rodmanii
@mdo7 i just told you, if you want to consume garbage go ahead, but dont expect others to accept this fake anime bullshit
@rodmanii There's nothing gross about authors taking inspiration from stuff they like, especially when you factor that most pre-90's Anime and even a lot afterwards took clear western influence from stuff like Disney, Star Wars, Alien, Blade Runner and anything with buff men blowing shit up. Watch any old OVA from that time that isn't Jidaigeki (Samurais, Ninjas) and you'll see a LOT of Americana. French stuff like Moebius was also influential to Anime. It's pretty closed minded to just dismiss something for... resembling something you like. Obviously It's never going to be the same due to the authors having very different influences by principle, but you're potentially missing out on good shit like... Avatar: The Last Airbender? That being said, I do agree with one thing.... Calling these Anime/Manga is cringe, they're Cartoons/Comics. |
Dec 7, 2024 7:32 AM
#36
Zhongyush said: Refer to this reply/post I made earlierI don't mind the ping. But how did you know I am from South Asia? lol Anyways, may I know what this particular thread is all about? I saw you discussing stuffs regarding a bengali webtoon which apparently is something I find genuinely intriguing. And apologies for the late reply, I don't quite use My Anime list on a frequent basis haha though speaking of which... asho asho @akib10 @AdritaHiyori @Ay_Rakib @HoInKyOmA @SI_ZISHAN @zidanepiz @shahid-nusrat @Md_Anik_Hossain @H_kun @Shahriah @Alifziad Zhongyush said: Huh, did hear about Karmachakra before, but this is the first I've heard of Trio. Is it this one?India too have released a manga inspired comic named "Trio" which I believe is available on Amazon. And the creator apparently is from West Bengal. It will soon get it's anime adaptation as well in the January of 2025. You may give the trailer a watch. P.S I wish karmachakra was a success as it was solely based on Bengali culture representing our traditions. |
Fario-PDec 7, 2024 7:41 AM
Dec 7, 2024 8:14 AM
#37
Reply to AzafuseKingTora
@rodmanii There's nothing gross about authors taking inspiration from stuff they like, especially when you factor that most pre-90's Anime and even a lot afterwards took clear western influence from stuff like Disney, Star Wars, Alien, Blade Runner and anything with buff men blowing shit up. Watch any old OVA from that time that isn't Jidaigeki (Samurais, Ninjas) and you'll see a LOT of Americana. French stuff like Moebius was also influential to Anime.
It's pretty closed minded to just dismiss something for... resembling something you like. Obviously It's never going to be the same due to the authors having very different influences by principle, but you're potentially missing out on good shit like... Avatar: The Last Airbender? That being said, I do agree with one thing....
Calling these Anime/Manga is cringe, they're Cartoons/Comics.
It's pretty closed minded to just dismiss something for... resembling something you like. Obviously It's never going to be the same due to the authors having very different influences by principle, but you're potentially missing out on good shit like... Avatar: The Last Airbender? That being said, I do agree with one thing....
Calling these Anime/Manga is cringe, they're Cartoons/Comics.
@AzafuseKingTora so? even if some japanese took inspiration from any foreign media that doesnt change the fact that what they produce is uniquely japanese, no, some idian fuck trying to emulate anime is not the same, and its never going to be. "It's pretty closed minded to just dismiss something for" so what? why would i go for the fake inferior verison instead of the original?, and no, to me avatar is a good for the usual standards of a kids show, past that is just a very mediocre forgettable show, but western animations standards are so low that it shines throught like some kind of masterpiece |
Dec 7, 2024 9:40 PM
#38
Reply to AzafuseKingTora
@rodmanii There's nothing gross about authors taking inspiration from stuff they like, especially when you factor that most pre-90's Anime and even a lot afterwards took clear western influence from stuff like Disney, Star Wars, Alien, Blade Runner and anything with buff men blowing shit up. Watch any old OVA from that time that isn't Jidaigeki (Samurais, Ninjas) and you'll see a LOT of Americana. French stuff like Moebius was also influential to Anime.
It's pretty closed minded to just dismiss something for... resembling something you like. Obviously It's never going to be the same due to the authors having very different influences by principle, but you're potentially missing out on good shit like... Avatar: The Last Airbender? That being said, I do agree with one thing....
Calling these Anime/Manga is cringe, they're Cartoons/Comics.
It's pretty closed minded to just dismiss something for... resembling something you like. Obviously It's never going to be the same due to the authors having very different influences by principle, but you're potentially missing out on good shit like... Avatar: The Last Airbender? That being said, I do agree with one thing....
Calling these Anime/Manga is cringe, they're Cartoons/Comics.
@AzafuseKingTora You might want to ignore him (I'm referring to @rodmanii) because he just insulted me via profile comments earlier today (refer to my profile, or you can look at it here), and you may want to stay away from the guy. Also, this is the same guy who insulted mangaka that worked on OEL manga and western comic/graphic novels. Yeah, we had mangaka that worked on western comic/OEL manga too. We have Japanese anime that worked on western cartoon that are influenced by anime like for example Studio 4C worked on a scene in The World of Gumball: I mean I agree with you that these western OEL manga shouldn't be called manga but then again manga means comic too, so... |
Dec 8, 2024 3:17 PM
#39
Reply to Raiden_4
First of all thanks for the ping. The covers look pretty cool. I didn't know there were ppl inspired by animanga creating comics n stuff. seems interesting tho. I think we need a platform to freely chat and discuss things. I find the club system pretty annoying.
You're welcome @Raiden_4, this new Source?. magazine looks like it could be potentially promising. I dunno though, I personally think the Club system is underutilized.... though I suppose we can just make this a hub for now speaking of which, hiya, asho asho c: @Gram_boy @Baanna @elpsycongroo911 @Eclipse-Ecco @alpha777omega @Tamima10 @WideEyed_ @DeadzAlive @kawayi @priceuwu @Nicolas_Rudra @Arib_ahmed @Joestar_D_Shawn @ABDonFIRE @Anindya007 @Shefin @RAFI2 @Shoemkhan @Nihal1991 @sajia_afrin_ @This_is_Rahat @Rahat_Dpi @shahariarN @M_R_Niaj @7_3 @Sk_08 @Uday224 @M-n-Sakib @Sadmannafis @MitsuhaWatanabe @-Ahnaf unless you mean you want something like a Discord server. That might be cool. |
Dec 8, 2024 9:42 PM
#40
Reply to Fario-P
You're welcome @Raiden_4, this new Source?. magazine looks like it could be potentially promising.
I dunno though, I personally think the Club system is underutilized.... though I suppose we can just make this a hub for now
speaking of which, hiya, asho asho c:
@Gram_boy @Baanna @elpsycongroo911 @Eclipse-Ecco @alpha777omega @Tamima10 @WideEyed_ @DeadzAlive @kawayi @priceuwu @Nicolas_Rudra @Arib_ahmed @Joestar_D_Shawn @ABDonFIRE @Anindya007 @Shefin @RAFI2 @Shoemkhan @Nihal1991 @sajia_afrin_ @This_is_Rahat @Rahat_Dpi @shahariarN @M_R_Niaj @7_3 @Sk_08 @Uday224 @M-n-Sakib @Sadmannafis @MitsuhaWatanabe @-Ahnaf
unless you mean you want something like a Discord server. That might be cool.
I dunno though, I personally think the Club system is underutilized.... though I suppose we can just make this a hub for now
speaking of which, hiya, asho asho c:
@Gram_boy @Baanna @elpsycongroo911 @Eclipse-Ecco @alpha777omega @Tamima10 @WideEyed_ @DeadzAlive @kawayi @priceuwu @Nicolas_Rudra @Arib_ahmed @Joestar_D_Shawn @ABDonFIRE @Anindya007 @Shefin @RAFI2 @Shoemkhan @Nihal1991 @sajia_afrin_ @This_is_Rahat @Rahat_Dpi @shahariarN @M_R_Niaj @7_3 @Sk_08 @Uday224 @M-n-Sakib @Sadmannafis @MitsuhaWatanabe @-Ahnaf
unless you mean you want something like a Discord server. That might be cool.
@Fario-P Do I even know you? Also, how did you manage my username? |
Rahat_DpiDec 8, 2024 10:02 PM
Dec 8, 2024 10:56 PM
#41
Reply to rodmanii
@AzafuseKingTora so? even if some japanese took inspiration from any foreign media that doesnt change the fact that what they produce is uniquely japanese, no, some idian fuck trying to emulate anime is not the same, and its never going to be. "It's pretty closed minded to just dismiss something for" so what? why would i go for the fake inferior verison instead of the original?, and no, to me avatar is a good for the usual standards of a kids show, past that is just a very mediocre forgettable show, but western animations standards are so low that it shines throught like some kind of masterpiece
@rodmanii Have a snickers. It's 2024, I'm pretty sure we all have grown past elevating Anime as this perfect untouchable monolith just because it comes from a specific country. Being Japanese doesn't mean shit when Anime like Berserk, Cowboy Beebop, Lodoss War, Monster, Rose of Versailles, or The Big O feel so "un-japanese" they could easily have come from the west. Hell, a lot of Anime were quite literally adapted from Western stories, like half of Ghibli or the World Masterpiece Teather. And shitting on Japanese people for getting involved with western properties is hilarious too when a lot of Anime studios, arguably the industry as a whole, was funded on the afromentioned adaptations of Western, mostly European literature or companies like Toei collaborating with American studios for shows like Thundercats and Transformers or TMS (post-Akira) collaborating with Warner Bros. on Tiny Toons, Animaniacs and Batman: The Animated Series, prior to Evangelion introducing the production comitee. |
AzafuseKingToraDec 8, 2024 11:33 PM
Dec 8, 2024 10:56 PM
#42
Reply to mdo7
@AzafuseKingTora You might want to ignore him (I'm referring to @rodmanii) because he just insulted me via profile comments earlier today (refer to my profile, or you can look at it here), and you may want to stay away from the guy.
Also, this is the same guy who insulted mangaka that worked on OEL manga and western comic/graphic novels. Yeah, we had mangaka that worked on western comic/OEL manga too. We have Japanese anime that worked on western cartoon that are influenced by anime like for example Studio 4C worked on a scene in The World of Gumball:
I mean I agree with you that these western OEL manga shouldn't be called manga but then again manga means comic too, so...
Also, this is the same guy who insulted mangaka that worked on OEL manga and western comic/graphic novels. Yeah, we had mangaka that worked on western comic/OEL manga too. We have Japanese anime that worked on western cartoon that are influenced by anime like for example Studio 4C worked on a scene in The World of Gumball:
I mean I agree with you that these western OEL manga shouldn't be called manga but then again manga means comic too, so...
@mdo7 It's OK, I can handle salt. |
Dec 9, 2024 5:01 AM
#43
Reply to AzafuseKingTora
@rodmanii Have a snickers.
It's 2024, I'm pretty sure we all have grown past elevating Anime as this perfect untouchable monolith just because it comes from a specific country. Being Japanese doesn't mean shit when Anime like Berserk, Cowboy Beebop, Lodoss War, Monster, Rose of Versailles, or The Big O feel so "un-japanese" they could easily have come from the west. Hell, a lot of Anime were quite literally adapted from Western stories, like half of Ghibli or the World Masterpiece Teather.
And shitting on Japanese people for getting involved with western properties is hilarious too when a lot of Anime studios, arguably the industry as a whole, was funded on the afromentioned adaptations of Western, mostly European literature or companies like Toei collaborating with American studios for shows like Thundercats and Transformers or TMS (post-Akira) collaborating with Warner Bros. on Tiny Toons, Animaniacs and Batman: The Animated Series, prior to Evangelion introducing the production comitee.
It's 2024, I'm pretty sure we all have grown past elevating Anime as this perfect untouchable monolith just because it comes from a specific country. Being Japanese doesn't mean shit when Anime like Berserk, Cowboy Beebop, Lodoss War, Monster, Rose of Versailles, or The Big O feel so "un-japanese" they could easily have come from the west. Hell, a lot of Anime were quite literally adapted from Western stories, like half of Ghibli or the World Masterpiece Teather.
And shitting on Japanese people for getting involved with western properties is hilarious too when a lot of Anime studios, arguably the industry as a whole, was funded on the afromentioned adaptations of Western, mostly European literature or companies like Toei collaborating with American studios for shows like Thundercats and Transformers or TMS (post-Akira) collaborating with Warner Bros. on Tiny Toons, Animaniacs and Batman: The Animated Series, prior to Evangelion introducing the production comitee.
@AzafuseKingTora lol, how stupid, to think the influence or view points of director, authors and other artist arent tied to their experiences that are unique to the societes they live in, so no, a western imbecile couldnt have made berserk, not a in a million years. " like half of Ghibli or the World Masterpiece Teather." so? your point is?. "but but but AniMe sTArTEd in orDEr to AdapT WEstERn HisTOriES, heNce Fake AnIME isnT GArbaGE", good joke, now tell me another one. |
Dec 9, 2024 11:16 AM
#44
Reply to rodmanii
@AzafuseKingTora lol, how stupid, to think the influence or view points of director, authors and other artist arent tied to their experiences that are unique to the societes they live in, so no, a western imbecile couldnt have made berserk, not a in a million years. " like half of Ghibli or the World Masterpiece Teather." so? your point is?. "but but but AniMe sTArTEd in orDEr to AdapT WEstERn HisTOriES, heNce Fake AnIME isnT GArbaGE", good joke, now tell me another one.
@rodmanii For someone who claims to be nearing their 40's, you surely don't act your age. Yes they are, but ultimately, you're the idiot for thinking Japanese people live in a bubble and are INTRINSICALLY "superior" storytellers when Anime produces just as much garbage, if not sometimes more garbage than the west, especially in the last 15 years. You completely misread my point, Anime didn't start to adapt western stories, adapting western stories and working with the west funded the medium. and yes, Berserk could've easily been western, It's type of content is perfectly in line from other dark medieval fantasy stories like the Witcher or A Song of Fire and Ice, most of It's inspirations are western media like the God Hand being inspired by Hellraiser, an American movie and even the few Japanese things it was inspired by, Pygmalio and The Rose of Versailles are in themselves very western, with the latter being a very loose retelling of the French Revolution. The only uniquely Japanese inspiration Miura had was probably Hokuto no Ken. All of this to prove that again, Japanese people don't live in a bubble and inspiration can come from other cultures outside their own. If Japanese people can be inspired by western media and culture, then westerners can be inspired by Japanese media and culture. It's obviously not the same but that doesn't matter much because at the end of the day, telling a good story matters more and in case you don't notice, good stories exist outside of Japan. |
Dec 9, 2024 2:45 PM
#45
Reply to AzafuseKingTora
@rodmanii For someone who claims to be nearing their 40's, you surely don't act your age.
Yes they are, but ultimately, you're the idiot for thinking Japanese people live in a bubble and are INTRINSICALLY "superior" storytellers when Anime produces just as much garbage, if not sometimes more garbage than the west, especially in the last 15 years.
You completely misread my point, Anime didn't start to adapt western stories, adapting western stories and working with the west funded the medium.
and yes, Berserk could've easily been western, It's type of content is perfectly in line from other dark medieval fantasy stories like the Witcher or A Song of Fire and Ice, most of It's inspirations are western media like the God Hand being inspired by Hellraiser, an American movie and even the few Japanese things it was inspired by, Pygmalio and The Rose of Versailles are in themselves very western, with the latter being a very loose retelling of the French Revolution. The only uniquely Japanese inspiration Miura had was probably Hokuto no Ken.
All of this to prove that again, Japanese people don't live in a bubble and inspiration can come from other cultures outside their own. If Japanese people can be inspired by western media and culture, then westerners can be inspired by Japanese media and culture. It's obviously not the same but that doesn't matter much because at the end of the day, telling a good story matters more and in case you don't notice, good stories exist outside of Japan.
Yes they are, but ultimately, you're the idiot for thinking Japanese people live in a bubble and are INTRINSICALLY "superior" storytellers when Anime produces just as much garbage, if not sometimes more garbage than the west, especially in the last 15 years.
You completely misread my point, Anime didn't start to adapt western stories, adapting western stories and working with the west funded the medium.
and yes, Berserk could've easily been western, It's type of content is perfectly in line from other dark medieval fantasy stories like the Witcher or A Song of Fire and Ice, most of It's inspirations are western media like the God Hand being inspired by Hellraiser, an American movie and even the few Japanese things it was inspired by, Pygmalio and The Rose of Versailles are in themselves very western, with the latter being a very loose retelling of the French Revolution. The only uniquely Japanese inspiration Miura had was probably Hokuto no Ken.
All of this to prove that again, Japanese people don't live in a bubble and inspiration can come from other cultures outside their own. If Japanese people can be inspired by western media and culture, then westerners can be inspired by Japanese media and culture. It's obviously not the same but that doesn't matter much because at the end of the day, telling a good story matters more and in case you don't notice, good stories exist outside of Japan.
@AzafuseKingTora where did i claim to be nearing my 40s? im not saying they are superior, im saying that anime is unique because its made by japanese people, animation done by none japanese outside of japan isnt anime just a cartoon that can be good or bad. Japan produces more garbage than the west because it produces more animation than all of the west combined, probably more than the rest of the world combined. "adapting western stories and working with the west funded the medium." yeah, sure, astro boy is just an adaptation of that famous western novel, am i right?. Both the witcher and song of shit and ice are complete absolute garbage compared to berserk, the only place where they are at the same level is in your mind. You sure like repeating the same thing over and over and over again, a one trick pony falling back to the only thing he can do, you have nothing of value to say. |
Dec 9, 2024 9:24 PM
#46
Reply to rodmanii
@AzafuseKingTora where did i claim to be nearing my 40s?
im not saying they are superior, im saying that anime is unique because its made by japanese people, animation done by none japanese outside of japan isnt anime just a cartoon that can be good or bad. Japan produces more garbage than the west because it produces more animation than all of the west combined, probably more than the rest of the world combined. "adapting western stories and working with the west funded the medium." yeah, sure, astro boy is just an adaptation of that famous western novel, am i right?. Both the witcher and song of shit and ice are complete absolute garbage compared to berserk, the only place where they are at the same level is in your mind. You sure like repeating the same thing over and over and over again, a one trick pony falling back to the only thing he can do, you have nothing of value to say.
im not saying they are superior, im saying that anime is unique because its made by japanese people, animation done by none japanese outside of japan isnt anime just a cartoon that can be good or bad. Japan produces more garbage than the west because it produces more animation than all of the west combined, probably more than the rest of the world combined. "adapting western stories and working with the west funded the medium." yeah, sure, astro boy is just an adaptation of that famous western novel, am i right?. Both the witcher and song of shit and ice are complete absolute garbage compared to berserk, the only place where they are at the same level is in your mind. You sure like repeating the same thing over and over and over again, a one trick pony falling back to the only thing he can do, you have nothing of value to say.
@rodmanii Again, misunderstanding my points. Sure stuff like Astroboy was popular but the Anime industry was tiny at the time, the only Anime that was truly successful outside of Japan was Speed Racer. In order to grow into what it is now, the Anime industry relied on making shows that cattered to western audiences to fund shows for Japanese audiences. For example, Studio Pierrot's first Anime was adapted from a Swedish novel and was clearly made for European audiences, once they gained a quick buck from that, they used it to make OG Urusei Yatsura and other future Anime which was fully cattered to Japanese audiences.. I don't need to say anything else, I've been saying nothing but explaining obvious facts you are too stupid to understand. The fact you do nothing but bash western media, insult studios and Mangaka for getting involved in western media, being generally biased against anything that isn't Japanese and taking the chance to shit on two beloved novels just because I compared them to your favorite Manga just proves me right. You are the living embodiment of this meme. |
Dec 9, 2024 9:29 PM
#47
Reply to rodmanii
@AzafuseKingTora where did i claim to be nearing my 40s?
im not saying they are superior, im saying that anime is unique because its made by japanese people, animation done by none japanese outside of japan isnt anime just a cartoon that can be good or bad. Japan produces more garbage than the west because it produces more animation than all of the west combined, probably more than the rest of the world combined. "adapting western stories and working with the west funded the medium." yeah, sure, astro boy is just an adaptation of that famous western novel, am i right?. Both the witcher and song of shit and ice are complete absolute garbage compared to berserk, the only place where they are at the same level is in your mind. You sure like repeating the same thing over and over and over again, a one trick pony falling back to the only thing he can do, you have nothing of value to say.
im not saying they are superior, im saying that anime is unique because its made by japanese people, animation done by none japanese outside of japan isnt anime just a cartoon that can be good or bad. Japan produces more garbage than the west because it produces more animation than all of the west combined, probably more than the rest of the world combined. "adapting western stories and working with the west funded the medium." yeah, sure, astro boy is just an adaptation of that famous western novel, am i right?. Both the witcher and song of shit and ice are complete absolute garbage compared to berserk, the only place where they are at the same level is in your mind. You sure like repeating the same thing over and over and over again, a one trick pony falling back to the only thing he can do, you have nothing of value to say.
@rodmanii As for your age, my bad, I mistook your profile for receeding hairline Eva guy. |
Dec 10, 2024 4:50 AM
#48
Reply to AzafuseKingTora
@rodmanii Again, misunderstanding my points. Sure stuff like Astroboy was popular but the Anime industry was tiny at the time, the only Anime that was truly successful outside of Japan was Speed Racer. In order to grow into what it is now, the Anime industry relied on making shows that cattered to western audiences to fund shows for Japanese audiences. For example, Studio Pierrot's first Anime was adapted from a Swedish novel and was clearly made for European audiences, once they gained a quick buck from that, they used it to make OG Urusei Yatsura and other future Anime which was fully cattered to Japanese audiences..
I don't need to say anything else, I've been saying nothing but explaining obvious facts you are too stupid to understand. The fact you do nothing but bash western media, insult studios and Mangaka for getting involved in western media, being generally biased against anything that isn't Japanese and taking the chance to shit on two beloved novels just because I compared them to your favorite Manga just proves me right. You are the living embodiment of this meme.
I don't need to say anything else, I've been saying nothing but explaining obvious facts you are too stupid to understand. The fact you do nothing but bash western media, insult studios and Mangaka for getting involved in western media, being generally biased against anything that isn't Japanese and taking the chance to shit on two beloved novels just because I compared them to your favorite Manga just proves me right. You are the living embodiment of this meme.
@AzafuseKingTora "buT buT but WEStErn InfluEnCE", ok buddy |
Dec 11, 2024 7:42 AM
#49
Reply to mdo7
Well you're welcome @Fario-P!!! But still, there is one thing that does bother me about the backlash toward OEL manga, why did it stopped? What I did noticed and I mentioned in my post is that the backlash stopped somewhere between in 2014/2015, just a few years before anime and manga have became mainstream in the west (this was before manga outsold US comic/graphic novels in the US), so the backlash stopped even before anime/manga went mainstream. But as I said, I did suspect many anti-OEL haters/elitists that also hated non-Japanese Asian graphic novels may have crossed over to K-pop and K-drama (when I say K-drama, I mean K-drama adaptation of well-known anime/manga titles. I can probably argued the same for Taiwanese drama adaptation) and when they find out some K-dramas adapted webtoons/manhwa, I guess that led them to opened up their mind to reading them and I guess that hatred/vitriol goes away, was that the same experience for you @Fario-P? What made you no longer hate OEL manga and manhwa/webtoons?
Have you met any other people that used to hate OEL manga and manhwa/webtoon, and manhua before they no longer hate them? If you met them, why did they stopped hating OEL manga, what titles made them stop hating OEL manga? That's what I liked to know so I can get better understanding what made them stop hating and stopped the backlash. I'm looking forward to your response to my questions. Anyway, thanks for responding back to me, I've been waiting long for your response and your thought.
Have you met any other people that used to hate OEL manga and manhwa/webtoon, and manhua before they no longer hate them? If you met them, why did they stopped hating OEL manga, what titles made them stop hating OEL manga? That's what I liked to know so I can get better understanding what made them stop hating and stopped the backlash. I'm looking forward to your response to my questions. Anyway, thanks for responding back to me, I've been waiting long for your response and your thought.
Well actually, @mdo7, I wouldn't say that I hated OEL manga, but I did have the "eh, probably trying too hard" elitist mindset and ignored a lot of these releases even if they seemed like the kind of series I might enjoy regardless. I am not sure why the backlash in general stopped, aside from your theories on Korean pop culture and productions such as Netflix's Castlevania garnering popularity and respect... though I guess when people started to learn more about OEL manga history and how a certain company treated these creators (honestly typing) rather poorly. At least I know I felt some sympathy for these creators who are struggling to (or eventually gave up on) get rights for these series back. I don't think I know anybody who really knew about OEL manga, much less any who knew enough to dislike them. |
Dec 11, 2024 9:09 AM
#50
Reply to AzafuseKingTora
@rodmanii As for your age, my bad, I mistook your profile for receeding hairline Eva guy.
@AzafuseKingTora I told you to ignore him!!! He's an ignorant and probably racist person. Do me a favor, just report this person for me. He violated MAL's rule for insulting me using profanity and slurs. Just ignore him and just report him to MAL moderators/admins. Fario-P said: I am not sure why the backlash in general stopped, aside from your theories on Korean pop culture and productions such as Netflix's Castlevania garnering popularity and respect... though I guess when people started to learn more about OEL manga history and how a certain company treated these creators (honestly typing) rather poorly. So I take it that you never talked or spoke (or interview) with anyone that used to hate OEL manga, and ask them "why did you stopped hating OEL manga for? What title or stuff that made you change your view on OEL manga, and manhwa/webtoons, and manhua?" I don't think Tokyopop alone may have caused the backlash to stop, there was still backlash against OEL manga after Tokyopop's North American/US division temporary shut down in 2011 (I need to watch that documentary you linked to me). But I can say that the backlash against OEL manga stop somewhere around 2014/2015, I think around the time when webtoon started to gain major foothold in the US thanks to K-pop and K-drama's popularity, and at the same time, Viz Media's re-printing/re-publishing of Shotaro Ishinomori's Zelda: A Link to the Past comic/OEL manga which was first published in Nintendo Power in the early 1990's (at the time when it was published in Nintendo Power, anime and manga was super niche, and not mainstream like today) could've caused some OEL manga haters to did some research and realized OEL manga existed before the term was coined (like I described on my first post). So, that could be the reason, but as I said in my previous post, I'm not 100% definitive on why the backlash stop at that point. That's why I was hoping and wanted you to talk to people that used to hate OEL manga to ask them why did they stop hated OEL manga, and what made them change their view on OEL manga (that applies to manhwa/webtoon and manhua)? |
mdo7Dec 11, 2024 11:41 AM
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