Attack on Titan
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Shidoteki said: iSpade said: Ehh yeah I'm just going to assume that he developed feelings for Mikasa or realized them during the timeskip, which I don't particularly like since it's off screen and feels out of left field to me. Not sure how the memories would make him get feelings for her.... but the whole time travel thing is confusing lol. Worth considering at least We aren't assuming that he got feelings, we clearly saw it when he said "What am I to you?" Yes the time skip was where it happened. The memories didnt give him feelings, they justified him not confessing. I'm also more inclined to think you are right that it isn't due to memories, just something I entertained since it can't be denied, and I never said we didn't see it in the timeskip. The issue remains that the romance came almost entirely out of left field. He doesn't get feelings till post time skip at which point he has the burden of memories that prevent it, and both the feelings and the memories aren't revealed till last minute. Not of a fan of that misdirection personally, you do you though. |
Lux_Vacui said: Why did Eren called the OG Fritz "Karl"? Wasn't that the 145th king who created the walls? Did they have the same name or.... Why was Gabi allowed to live in Paradis island? She killed Sasha, a hero of Shiganshina. I think that's just an error in the official translation. I saw an earlier fan translation that just called him King Fritz. |
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megumatt2 said: AOT is bigger and sells better in the West than Japan.All Japanese comments on twitter: "This was amazing. Thank you Isayama" All English comments: "WhAT ThE FUcK WaS tHAt AOT SUckS DIcK FUck YOU IsayamMA" No one cares about what you think about the final chapter. Don't go trashing on Isayama just because you didn't enjoy the ending. Be respectful, ungrateful english reading shits. And generalizing both sides “all Japan = positive, all English = negative” is not helping you prove a point. |
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| I thought it was a great ending, sure it did kinda trivialize eren's whole point for existing lol but I still loved it, seeing a (semi)happy ending for everyone was beautiful. |
iSpade said: Shidoteki said: We aren't assuming that he got feelings, we clearly saw it when he said "What am I to you?" Yes the time skip was where it happened. The memories didnt give him feelings, they justified him not confessing. I'm also more inclined to think you are right that it isn't due to memories, just something I entertained since it can't be denied, and I never said we didn't see it in the timeskip. The issue remains that the romance came almost entirely out of left field. He doesn't get feelings till post time skip at which point he has the burden of memories that prevent it, and both the feelings and the memories aren't revealed till last minute. Not of a fan of that misdirection personally, you do you though. I agree with you and I understand what you mean. I personally think that those last memories also came out of nowhere since we didn't expect him to actually know so much of the future, yeah. I disagree on the feelings for Mikasa though. They weren't just shown last minute, since it was in chapter 123. |
Shidoteki said: iSpade said: I'm also more inclined to think you are right that it isn't due to memories, just something I entertained since it can't be denied, and I never said we didn't see it in the timeskip. The issue remains that the romance came almost entirely out of left field. He doesn't get feelings till post time skip at which point he has the burden of memories that prevent it, and both the feelings and the memories aren't revealed till last minute. Not of a fan of that misdirection personally, you do you though. I agree with you and I understand what you mean. I personally think that those last memories also came out of nowhere since we didn't expect him to actually know so much of the future, yeah. I disagree on the feelings for Mikasa though. They weren't just shown last minute, since it was in chapter 123. The moment in 123 is too abrupt for me still, given that's in the final arc and near the end of the series, though it might be enough for some people. In time I could see it differently. |
| I'm little exhausted to give details so I gonna be brief: I hate the ending, it changed Eren's role again but this time the change is negative. He went from a "big villain with a reasonable background that backup his point of view" to "I did genocide for my besties". The rest, well even if would complain, I'm glad that is finally over. Isayama can't ruin it anymore... I hope so. This manga is similar to Naruto for me but in a minor scale: great moments, great characters but a very bad road to the finale. |
JoycdonnellApr 8, 2021 12:33 PM
KneelBeforeMe said: AOT is bigger and sells better in the West than Japan. And generalizing both sides “all Japan = positive, all English = negative” is not helping you prove a point. Do you really think that AOT is bigger in the west? I'm not so sure about that one, considering the fact that Japan has a population of 126 million while "the west" has population of MUCH more than that. I apologize for generalizing, and do not mean to make this about race by any means. Just from what I have seen on this forum and on twitter, english fans are much more vocal about their discontentment, directing their anger towards Isayama and not appreciating the years of enjoyment he has given us. |
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Static_Anime17 said: I’ve seen people sending death threats to Isayama already, which is a little too much. They even got #fuckyouisayama on twitter trending, I can understand where you’re coming from but there REALLY shouldn’t be THIS much people hating on it. Like you said I got closure as well and I’m happy too. Seriously? The fucking nerve on those incels... |
| End Zionazism |
Joycdonnell said: I'm little exhausted to give details so I gonna be brief: I hate the ending, it changed Eren's role again but this time the change is negative. He went from a "big villain with a reasonable background that backup his point of view" to "I did genocide for my besties". The rest, well even if would complain, I'm glad that is finally over. Isayama can't ruin it anymore... I hope so. This manga is similar to Naruto for me but in a minor scale: great moments, great characters but apretty bad final road to the finale. The theme about being a slave to something was always present, but I wish it the author could have hammered it home in a way that did not feel like such a betrayal to Eren's character. I imagine a lot of us still believed Eren cared about Armin/Mikasa etc in the final arc, and he could certainly fall in love with Mikasa. These things don't inherently contradict the way they built up him up as a character in earlier parts of this arc. For example, if he completed the rumbling, he could say he did it to save at least a few of his surviving friends rather than let them all die if he did nothing. Him dying in pursuit of a goal like that, still keeps his character. It started making less sense when he let them keep their titans to fight him though, so I was expecting a twist, I honestly have the impression that, from observing other characters in fiction who have the role of "big villain with a reasonable background that backup his point of view", that changing their character to something that contradicts that, will inevitably disappoint the reader, unless perhaps it is done with a nuance that feels earned. How to do that, I don't know, but I was curious to see if the author would do it effectively. The execution of it didn't feel that good to me though. |
iSpadeApr 8, 2021 12:47 PM
| this last chapter made me laugh, so i can't hate something that made me laugh. cheers 🍻 |
| Protesters, assemble!! |
| The thing I’m upset about is not getting an explanation about the hallugenia(?). It and ymir just disappeared. Seemed a bit lazy IMO. Def could have used a double length chapter |
DeDeDeath said: Broooooo i said the same thing xDDthis last chapter made me laugh, so i can't hate something that made me laugh. cheers 🍻 i was reading it with my homie and we laughed sooooo hard man isayama really trolled us and i loved it to death xDD ending was sooooo trash that i died laughing at it this chapter was amazing i wish isayama make a comedy series because he is really good at it xDD |
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Faramundo_Jester said: DeDeDeath said: Broooooo i said the same thing xDDthis last chapter made me laugh, so i can't hate something that made me laugh. cheers 🍻 i was reading it with my homie and we laughed sooooo hard man isayama really trolled us and i loved it to death xDD ending was sooooo trash that i died laughing at it this chapter was amazing i wish isayama make a comedy series because he is really good at it xDD he said in an interview he would like to do a dark comedy next. maybe he started early with this chapter. |
| Protesters, assemble!! |
DeDeDeath said: looking forward to it Faramundo_Jester said: Broooooo i said the same thing xDD i was reading it with my homie and we laughed sooooo hard man isayama really trolled us and i loved it to death xDD ending was sooooo trash that i died laughing at it this chapter was amazing i wish isayama make a comedy series because he is really good at it xDD he said in an interview he would like to do a dark comedy next. maybe he started early with this chapter. thank you man xD |
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KneelBeforeMe said: The Rumbling arc and specifically the last stretch of chapters bring the overall score of the manga down to 8/10 for me. But this chapter is really testing my love for ch1-123/ch130-131... I really want to slap a 7/10 rating instead for one of the shittiest ending delivered by Isayama. Bittersweet? Nah bruh, I feel assaulted. Removed from favorites, only thing left from this story on my profile is Chad Erwin. He died early enough to not have his character assassinated by Isayama. Wow you have the exact same opinion as me keragamming said: Ok, so I have literally just finish reading the final chapter, I read the first page yesterday but found the dialogue to be cringy so I thought I need to wait for the official translation as I want to have a fair opinion on the final chapter. So I can now say with confidence that I wish this chapter was shorter and that the entire Armin and Eren conversation didn't happen at all, because that is where most of the bad dialogue and cringe came from, this completely destroyed Eren character, I didn't read much of the leaks so I didn't know it was That bad This was my expression during the Armin and Eren conversation.  The first two pages alone almost put me out, I had to take a 2 minutes break after reading that. When Eren said that Ymir is in love with Karl Fritz, I was like "no Isayama its called stockholm syndrome!" And from there I turn off my brain because I knew what comes after won't make any sense since it's going to be connected by Ymir love for the king,🙄 when Eren starts talking about Mikasa being the one to free her. I literally roll my eyes.🙄 This page was so cringe! I had to take 5 minutes break and just shake my head, went to my fridge took out a drink and came back to my laptop, from there I just wanted it to hurry up and end, because I fear it will only get worse.  And then that scene where Eren apparently leads the smiling titan towards his mom, I was thinking was this really necessary to include Isayama? How much more do you want to destroy Eren character? The second half of the chapter wasn't bad imo, I don't have a problem with happy ending in fact after what the character went through on a story narrative it can be argue that they deserve to have an happy ending, but at the same I can understand others that don't like this as the ending we got is predictable and generic but safe at the same time and I think a unconventional ending would make the series stand out more imo. Though I will admit I did feel some sadness by time I reach the end, regarding Eren death, and I guess it can be argue that Eren death makes it a bittersweet ending, but excluding that its basically a happy ending. Final thoughts, this chapter did more damage to the series overall. Isayama failed to answer some unanswered plot thread, while at the same time contradicting Eren character, I never had any idea that Eren had Fellings for Mikasa, Isayama himself in a an interview said that he find its weird that childhood friends could fall in love, not to mention Eren and Mikasa are basically brother and sister, so I find this development odd. Historia, all I will have to say is she became a wasted character since the timeskip and based off the set up from previous chapters I thought that it was setting Hsitroia and her pregnancy to have a big importance but in the end it came to nothing. Eren and Armin discussion felt like I was reading a fanfic and this just tell me that Isayama was burnt out and just wanted to hurry up and end the series, he even said it in the interviews. Overall, I will give this chapter..... a 3/5 or 2/5, I'm very conflicted on which one it should be. I have to give this series a 8/10, The journey was worth it, I had a blast reading this series and that will never change, but this ending will have a bittersweet taste whenever I think about it. Yep my chap rating too is a 2/10 and my arc rating overall is 7/10 While overall... I'm being generous enough But overall an 8.5/10 Also "I don't want any other for mikasa " 🤢🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮 cringe......!!!!! You're exactly right it completely destroyed eren's character In the end it felt like a fanfic to me Did isayama really write this 😣 This makes me doubt every single manga artist now And my friend is just ...she keeps saying what if even oda gives one piece the same kind of ending .·´¯`(>▂<)´¯`·. Mod Edit: Merged duplicated posts; please use the edit button. |
KuniiApr 8, 2021 9:56 PM
| Founder Ymir is the true embodiment of Stockholm Syndrome. It's natural for most people to be disgusted but I like these kinda twisted shit so I don't mind XD Eren was just a tsundere all this time....but if Armin tells whatever Eren said to Mikasa, her reaction would be too precious. I feel like all those shit that Eren did was because he went crazy after being possessed by the founding titan. At the end Mikasa sitting beside Eren under the tree and talking really reminded me of how Eiji was looking at Ash's photos and was crying. What made me emotional was Levi remembering all the fallen comrades and he even shed tears. Timeskip Armin has Levi's hairstyle XD Anyway, Isayama truly did a great job. He did say that he doesn't want to give us a happy ending but in the end it really was a happy ending but a twisted one. Hats off to this talented author now he too can take a break and chill in his onsen. 10/10 |
iSpade said: Lovlis said: i thought it was pretty obvious that eren loved mikasa, or at least cared for mikasa the most. Also, i think everyone is misunderstanding the panels when eren confesses. it does not mean that eren did everything for his love for mikasa. "but really it all comes down to the fact that he's always been locked down by fate, As such, he was never able to truly cherish his moments with mikasa." And a main point of armin and eren's discussion was that armin had had enough and wanted eren to really confront his feelings for mikasa. Eren's obviously had to seal his feelings for her and shut her down, ever since s1 bcuz of the burdens he carries. And even if it wasn't hinted, how does that one thing "ruin" eren's character as everyone else says. they showed the alternate reality where confessing = no genocide he was super protective of her and armin both, definitely not especially her. the two protected armin or mikasa protected him more than anything; he didn't really show much sign of preference towards her outside of she is one of two precious childhood friends. anything beyond that is just people wanting to ship characters to fill their fantasies, unless there are actual examples of eren liking mikasa as a member of the opposite sex, subtly or overtly (occuring prior to season 4) also you make it sound like he didn't love her because of a burden. he wasn't burdened by memories until after chapter 90/s3. As I already stated, he could have romanced her at any point before that burden, three whole seasons, and didn't. He was loudmouth and gung ho, if he was in love he would've said soemething. At most, you could bend things so he didn't fall in love until the timeskip, in which case that's still rather poor to only hint at it a development which is the sole factor that is the sole factor in whether or not billions die I answered the rest of this more in depth in another reply in this forum either to you or someone else, I don't have much else to say. didn't i literally just say that "Eren's obviously had to seal his feelings for her and shut her down, ever since s1 bcuz of the burdens he carries." Eren didn't really have time or felt he had the right to confess to Mikasa. They were also like 15 before the timeskip. So not much time to think about romance, but it was pretty obvious that Eren still cared for mikasa. i think the fact that Mikasa's answer could've changed his mind, rather than armin or smth, proved that he really valued mikasa. Perhaps it wasn't as full on romantically charged until know, where we finally get eren's pov and feelings, but it was definitely hinted. And again, how does this ruin his entire character. |
 ╭⋟──────────────────────╮ "All problems come from the human mind. In the mind, one's consciousness is just the tip of the iceberg. What lies beneath the surface... the subconscious... is far more vast." - Shun Aonuma ╰──────────────────────⋞╯ |
Lovlis said: iSpade said: they showed the alternate reality where confessing = no genocide he was super protective of her and armin both, definitely not especially her. the two protected armin or mikasa protected him more than anything; he didn't really show much sign of preference towards her outside of she is one of two precious childhood friends. anything beyond that is just people wanting to ship characters to fill their fantasies, unless there are actual examples of eren liking mikasa as a member of the opposite sex, subtly or overtly (occuring prior to season 4) also you make it sound like he didn't love her because of a burden. he wasn't burdened by memories until after chapter 90/s3. As I already stated, he could have romanced her at any point before that burden, three whole seasons, and didn't. He was loudmouth and gung ho, if he was in love he would've said soemething. At most, you could bend things so he didn't fall in love until the timeskip, in which case that's still rather poor to only hint at it a development which is the sole factor that is the sole factor in whether or not billions die I answered the rest of this more in depth in another reply in this forum either to you or someone else, I don't have much else to say. didn't i literally just say that "Eren's obviously had to seal his feelings for her and shut her down, ever since s1 bcuz of the burdens he carries." Eren didn't really have time or felt he had the right to confess to Mikasa. They were also like 15 before the timeskip. So not much time to think about romance, but it was pretty obvious that Eren still cared for mikasa. i think the fact that Mikasa's answer could've changed his mind, rather than armin or smth, proved that he really valued mikasa. Perhaps it wasn't as full on romantically charged until know, where we finally get eren's pov and feelings, but it was definitely hinted. And again, how does this ruin his entire character. Can you provide examples of it happening before the timeskip, of Eren showing interest in Mikasa and not the other way around? Your favorite ones out of them, maybe. The scarf thing in chapter 1 is the only one I can recall |
iSpadeApr 8, 2021 1:49 PM
| the moral of the story was "what zero pussy does to a mf" |
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| HAHAHAHA OH GOD THAT WAS SO BAD Eren was completely ruined by this chapter and the plot along with him. That was an unbelievably asinine twist about Ymir's plan. |
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| Even though I liked the ending, I see some valid criticism, and that's ok. Not everyone has to like it obviously. But also I see a lot of bitter Eren fanboys. They were trying so hard to justify his actions from the previous chapters. And now they look pretty funny after the 139 and they are angry about this. |
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| isayama fucked up big time. |
iSpade said: The theme about being a slave to something was always present, but I wish it the author could have hammered it home in a way that did not feel like such a betrayal to Eren's character. I imagine a lot of us still believed Eren cared about Armin/Mikasa etc in the final arc, and he could certainly fall in love with Mikasa. These things don't inherently contradict the way they built up him up as a character in earlier parts of this arc. For example, if he completed the rumbling, he could say he did it to save at least a few of his surviving friends rather than let them all die if he did nothing. Him dying in pursuit of a goal like that, still keeps his character. It started making less sense when he let them keep their titans to fight him though, so I was expecting a twist, I honestly have the impression that, from observing other characters in fiction who have the role of "big villain with a reasonable background that backup his point of view", that changing their character to something that contradicts that, will inevitably disappoint the reader, unless perhaps it is done with a nuance that feels earned. How to do that, I don't know, but I was curious to see if the author would do it effectively. The execution of it didn't feel that good to me though. I really like the first main premise of adult Eren: he saw the people outside of Paradis as his enemy (like he expressed at the end of the teen arc when they reached the ocean) and he wanted to squash them all for the sake of his people (which are included his friends). That's why was great his talk with Reiner before he started his destruction at Marley. Of course there should be some kind of opposition and Armin in theory was the ideal one (like if was Walter vs Hank, is someone dear to the protagonist and would act the last wall to deal before the climax). Eren winning or losing was fine or me as long it were coherent the result and well... it was pretty hard make Eren lose at that point of the story because Isayama made him like a Madara Uchiha: the most powerful being unable to be defeated (He had the founding titan so in theory any person with titan powers were unable to disobey him + the future view thing + alot of colossals + etc etc) so without a good and nice plot twist, the only way to defeat Eren was because Eren let himself lose.... which is that happened on those last 2 chapters! So for me at the moment that Armin and gang were in the ship was kinda obvious for me how the thing gonna end. Eren loving or not Mikasa didnt matter for me (She and Armin are the most important ppl for him so regardless if was love or not, Eren would take her in consideration) so I really liked his moments where he "hated" her with those of the Akerman's blood stuff... u know, it gave me a feel of later or sonner she would be "free", free of that reliance to Eren and take out that scarf that is symbol of that broken bond (since Eren was taking Mikasa's future in consideration).... BUT no! She kept that scarf until the last page... but well, what is done is done. It is a shame how this ended because as said before, it had really nice moments and was enjoyable to read/watch at the beginning. |
| I was there for the leaks and I hated it. I read the Korean scans and I hated it. I read that one fan translation and I hated it. I slept. I woke up. BUT I read the official scans and I actually really liked it. Nothing out of this world like AOT used to be but I liked it. The final chapter recontextualises the story one final time. Think about it. The first time was the basement reveal. Everything we knew flipped on it's head and the story gained new meaning. The 2nd time was Paths chapters. With the introduction of time shenanigans we are once again asked to reevaluate the story from start to finish. The last time was Eren's real POV. What we knew wasn't all there was. I started rereading the manga already and I'm already fascinated how each and every chapter reads differently just knowing the context of 139. If my reading of this isn't true then yes, 139 was the worst chapter of them all and the one who throws away all the themes and careful storycrafting. But I believe Isayama knew what he was doing and we should analyze the themes portrayed in it rather than dismiss it because it was something we didn't want. Chad Eren never existed. EreHisu was just bait, getting mad about a ship is childish. AnR was a great theory, and one I would have liked to have come true BUT in the end it remains just a theory. Titanfolk was a mistake. Go back to 131, a chapter said to be the best one by the fandom because of Eren's badassery. Go back and realise that in that very chapter Eren is portrayed as a broken man, someone unsure of himself and what he is doing. Realise that SNK is a story meant to have a different meaning with each reading. Analysis of chapter 139 after I recontextualise the story: Eren did what he did because of future memories. He was fucked up during the entirety of the period after he kissed Historia's hand. He was confused. He didn't understand what he was doing but he knew he had to do it. Here's the catch: He was also free. It is that clash of his will versus the future actions he knows he will commit that give us a broken Eren as a result. That much is obvious. Eren knew his friends will stop the rumbling but he had to start it for that memory to come true in the first place. BUT Eren also WANTS the rumbling to succeed. He says so to Armin this very chapter and is confirmed in Hisoria's letter. He did BOTH what he wanted and what he knew he had to do to undo the titan curse. The rumbling wasn't useless. It did what it had to do. It killed 80% of the world and gave Paradis time to develop an army now led by Yeagerists and Historia who believe in Eren's ideology. They continue the fight until one side perishes. Armin thinks of the Tybur family in comparison to the Alliance. I wondered what this meant at first but then I realised: Tybur family betrayed Eldia in order to save the world. The alliance betrayed Paradis to save the world. Both the Tyburs and the alliance, while betraying their race, still want to protect Eldia, in addition to the world. This is what I came up with but I would like to see some other interpretations. Armin and Eren saw the world from the books. It was a construct but more importantly a possibility of -what if- the world ever knows peace. A possible future Eren entrusted Armin with. Armin didn't thank Eren for being a mass murderer lol. He thanked him for giving the alliance a chance to build on Eren's error. Armin speech to secretary Muller and starting the path towards a possibility of peace is a parallel to his speech to Kitz when he was convincing him not to shoot a canon at Eren in the Trost arc. Founder Ymir LOVED King Fritz. I see everyone misinterprets this. This IS MEANT to be fucked up. It IS MEANT to be disturbing. Isayama isn't telling us this is a loving relationship. Ymir fell in love with her abuser. There are real world examples of this dynamic. Her feelings for him restrain her as she wants to be free from them but she can't help herself. In comes Mikasa, a girl stuck on a dude, developing feelings similar to that of Ymir's for Fritz. Although Eren wasn't abusive, he treated Mikasa harshly all throughout the manga. Why doesn't she let go of him? We asked this question ourselves while complaining about her lack of development. The parallel with Ymir answers this question. Ymir, the Paths, the titan powers all disappear because Mikasa's action of killing Eren show Ymir what she should have done but couldn't. Ymir lets go of the world she created and curses she cursed others with. Some will call this cringe but it remains a beautiful and tragic theme nonetheless. Eren KNEW Mikasa will kill him for 4 years before it happened. He did the rumbling to allow for such a situation to be able to occur. Why? People misinterpret this and say Eren committed genocide because he was familyzoned or something. This is funny. Eren's feelings for Mikasa remain a separate plot point from the Rumbling. Understand this. Eren was always selfish and bratty and so he was regarding his feelings for Mikasa. Armin calls him pathetic for it, so Isayama definitely knows how he is making our ''Chad'' look. His feelings for her exist separately. He did the rumbling not because Mikasa familyzoned him but because it's specifically Mikasa's feelings that free Ymir and end the titan curse. Eren had to push Mikasa away to end the age of titans. ''I'll kill every last one of those animals in this world'' ALWAYS meant titans. That's why he moved forward. Not because of teenage love problems with Mikasa or being a Chad who fucked Historia. Let go of your head canons and what you think should have been. He spared Bertolt because he had to live, he had to live so Armin could take his power and be the one to lead the alliance and in turn have Mikasa kill Eren. He had his mom killed for the same reason. All of it had to happen for the titan curse to end. When he asked Reiner why his mother had to die during Declaration of War he did so asking why they attacked Shinganshina. He knew then it was his own fault. The reason he told Reiner they are the same isn't because of what you ere made to believe. He said that because he knew he was fucked up and wanted to die just like Reiner then. The rest is self-explanatory. All the human moments at fort Salta and post-timeskip were done perfectly. Also, Eren didn't actually become a bird. It's all symbolism. I will say tho, it was a mistake making Eren too 'badass' and hiding his POV for the entirety of the final arc. Seeing his 'cracks' more would have sold the ending better. I haven't read any of the comments in this thread yet but might do so later. Please do respond to this as I'm interested whether you think my take makes sense or not. |
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