| The question applies for media in general but this is an anime forum so we'll roll with that. Personally I harbor disdain for transgender representation. Being transgender sucks and I personally don't like even being reminded of it. But your opinion may be different, so let's hear it. Also I present another question: What anime do you feel does transgender bullshit right? I would say Paradise Kiss is a nice manga/anime and one of my favorites overall so I will use it as my positive example. |
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| I think the sort of people who worry about "representation" in media need to - quite unironically - go outside more. Honestly, the less time they are on here or Twitter the happier everyone will be. |
| “In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule.” -Friedrich Nietzsche Aggregate scoring is bad for the anime fandom |
| Nothing, i don't like the whole let's push our agenda on everything that it's considered normal nowadays. If you want to watch oneanime where this isn't a punchline you can watch Wandering Son. |
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AbsurdistOtaku said: The "trap" character archetype, the boy who looks like a cute girl, is definitely played for laughs, but that's not actually a transgender character anyway, even though that term is also used as a slur.From what I've seen in anime, transgender characters are played for laughs, so I think their representation is terrible. If an anime's not going to properly portray another group of people correctly, then I'd prefer it just doesn't portray them. I can't really think of that many trans anime characters though. Maybe that's just my luck, I dunno. Off the top of my head my first thought is Nagi Arisuin, a.k.a. "Alice", from Chivalry of a Failed Knight, and her gender is not played for laughs, as far as I remember. |
| Avatar character is Gabriel from Gabriel DropOut. |
YossaRedMage said: I think the sort of people who worry about "representation" in media need to - quite unironically - go outside more. Honestly, the less time they are on here or Twitter the happier everyone will be. Yeah the push for representation is really bothersome. That pushes an environment creates a damned if you do damned if you don't situation that discourages artistic freedom and objective neutrality. Edit: I also think I'm retarded and meant my reply for @Heimur but it works for both I guess, lol. |
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| WHAT trangender representation? There is none. No Otokonokos A.K.A. Traps are not it. They are feminine crossdressing boys. |
| You are not your body, you are your brain, the "self" that emerges from within it. |
| It's traps they take it in a very burlesque way (it may be to offend or simply black humour) but in general with the same stereotypes of a gay person Sources: I am Pansexual and I have received questions and insults about that :( |
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| I personally like it, crossdressing is acceptable |
Brazilian,24yo; —"Man propose, God dispose."  " |
| Did you know the rates of attempted suicide within the trasngender population is shockingly high? You can google it. I'm not going to quote a single number because the percentages out there vary. But it's like 20-40%. Some will say it's because being transgender is a mental "disorder" in the first place which inevitably leads to self-harm. Others will say it's because of social attitudes and bullying. One thing I know for sure, it has nothing to do with the amount of transgender people in goddamned anime or any other media. It is social / mental health issue. Forcing artists to bend their vision to fit an agenda will not produce good art. To go off on a little tangent / rant, I probably land somewhere in between the two views expressed earlier in this comment. But being on the side of individual liberty above all else, I think people should be allowed to dress, act and have whatever surgery they want. However, constraints on my speech is a step too far. I love women. I worship feminine beauty, and I will not use the term women for a man who has transitioned. But my speech should be my business. |
| “In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule.” -Friedrich Nietzsche Aggregate scoring is bad for the anime fandom |
AbsurdistOtaku said: From what I've seen in anime, transgender characters are played for laughs, so I think their representation is terrible. If an anime's not going to properly portray another group of people correctly, then I'd prefer it just doesn't portray them. agree 100% with this. i'd absolutely kill for some decent trans rep in anime but some cis folk generally dont tend to take us seriously cuz "heehee big masculine man in a dress funnie" also saying people who "worry about representation" in media need to go outside more is honestly a little hilarious seeing as diversity is quite literally the norm in the real world |
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YossaRedMage said: Did you know the rates of attempted suicide within the trasngender population is shockingly high? You can google it. I'm not going to quote a single number because the percentages out there vary. But it's like 20-40%. Some will say it's because being transgender is a mental "disorder" in the first place which inevitably leads to self-harm. Others will say it's because of social attitudes and bullying. One thing I know for sure, it has nothing to do with the amount of transgender people in goddamned anime or any other media. It is social / mental health issue. Forcing artists to bend their vision to fit an agenda will not produce good art. To go off on a little tangent / rant, I probably land somewhere in between the two views expressed earlier in this comment. But being on the side of individual liberty above all else, I think people should be allowed to dress, act and have whatever surgery they want. However, constraints on my speech is a step too far. I love women. I worship feminine beauty, and I will not use the term women for a man who has transitioned. But my speech should be my business. Yeah the suicide attempt rate is pretty damn high. I believe because being transgender is living a life of unfulfilled needs and nihilistic hopelessness. So I would say being transgender should be considered a disorder. I totes agree on the artistic freedom. Pressure to add transgender character or any other representation stifles art and I know for sure it's only gonna get worse. We should enjoy what little good media we get now since it is sadly gonna become more rare. |
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| @Jirachiwishangel I actually want to read lovely complex so thanks for the heads up. I can adjust my expectations accordingly. Also if you haven't read paradise kiss it's great btw. |
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| i AM gonna say that trans rep is really hard to find because of the reception it gets. if a piece of media decides to include a trans character, people immediately start whining about "this isnt realistic" or "stop putting political shit in my anime/tv show/game". our identities are seen as unnatural and arent received well, even if the artist themselves just wanted a trans character, no pressure or anything. its like a cycle. people tell us to stop whining for rep and add it ourselves, and when we do, its just dismissed as pushing some kind of evil trans agenda. quoting what was said before, damned if we do, damned if we don't. being trans isn't miserable when you have acceptance for who you are- its a proven fact. i'm also living proof of that, cause i'm trans and i'm damn happy about it. i love who i am and i worked hard to get there. to summarize: id love some trans representation thats actually done well bc MAN is that shit hard to find |
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| i don’t care about representation much, but it makes some people feel less alone in their problems. my thing with representation of any kind is just let it come naturally. if the series doesn’t call for a particular character, don’t force them in. but anime hardly has any transgender people in it, and with that handful it’s normally not too good. but boy there sure is a lot of cross dressing. an anime i’ve seen that kind of tackles transgenderism and puberty and shit is hourou musko, nothing in depth since they’re middle schoolers, but it’s a pretty pleasant and cute watch. being trans is the worst. im here for ya on this one. we gotta stick together in our shared misery. |
returntothenhkSep 18, 2019 9:25 PM
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impfunny said: i AM gonna say that trans rep is really hard to find because of the reception it gets. if a piece of media decides to include a trans character, people immediately start whining about "this isnt realistic" or "stop putting political shit in my anime/tv show/game". our identities are seen as unnatural and arent received well, even if the artist themselves just wanted a trans character, no pressure or anything. its like a cycle. people tell us to stop whining for rep and add it ourselves, and when we do, its just dismissed as pushing some kind of evil trans agenda. quoting what was said before, damned if we do, damned if we don't. being trans isn't miserable when you have acceptance for who you are- its a proven fact. i'm also living proof of that, cause i'm trans and i'm damn happy about it. i love who i am and i worked hard to get there. to summarize: id love some trans representation thats actually done well bc MAN is that shit hard to find Yeah people do tend to overreact when there is any trans character in current media. It's tricky because I see both sides not helping the situation at all. Like say Twin Peaks, that show is from the early 90s but it has a transgender character I actually like. The thing being since the show is older it gets no attention from those in support of or against the representation even though it probably is the most realistic presentation of a transgender woman I have seen. And I'm the opposite. I have a ton of support. Supportive friends and fiance but being transgender is absolutely miserable still. I hold a bunch of disdain for my body and my birth regardless of how many people support me and how long I've been on hormones. |
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| @AbsurdistOtaku I'll be honest with you on this. I have had many a transgender friend. I have even had friends figure out they are transgender because I am so open about it. The problem is every transgender person I have met in my personal life have been really shitty abusive people. I will use that friend that discovered their transgenderness through me as an example. Me, my fiance, her and her friend all go to an anime convention. She has a crush on me and decides to sexually harass me the entire trip wanting sex and other things. My fiance gets her to stop and she does. Fast forward to another convention this year and this time she threatens to murder us because she is so thirsty and can't conceive of the that another trans person isn't attracted to them. That is the most extreme but I have other examples of trans friends dumping me for not being as extremist as them as in support of violence against people who don't approve of transgender individuals. Basically I washed my hands of transgender individuals in my personal life because I can't find any well adjusted normal people. |
♡ Harder Daddy ♡ |
| It's lacking (even if it's there, it's in the background according to the one anime I've seen with any trans characters, that being one of the side characters in Chivalry of a Failed Knight), though it doesn't really affect or offend me personally. Would be open to see more representation that is tasteful. |
| Being wrong is just an occupational hazard. Follow me on twitter. I have an anitube channel so feel free to check it out and subscribe if you like what you see. |
| Watch or read Hourou Musuko. It does a great job showcasing the issues that affects transgender men/women. |
 ʙᴇᴄᴀᴜꜱᴇ ᴛʜᴀᴛ'ꜱ ᴛʜᴇ ᴇᴀꜱɪᴇꜱᴛ ᴡᴀy ᴛᴏ ᴋᴇᴇᴩ ꜰʀᴏᴍ ɢᴇᴛᴛɪɴɢ ʜᴜʀᴛ yᴏᴜ ɴᴇᴠᴇʀ ᴇᴠᴇɴ ʟᴏᴠᴇᴅ yᴏᴜʀꜱᴇʟꜰ yᴏᴜ'ʀᴇ ᴀʟʟ yᴏᴜ ʜᴀᴠᴇ ᴀɴᴅ yᴏᴜ ɴᴇᴠᴇʀ ᴇᴠᴇɴ ʟᴇᴀʀɴᴇᴅ ᴛᴏ ʟɪᴋᴇ yᴏᴜʀꜱᴇʟꜰ |
AbsurdistOtaku said: @Nettle_Tea I think you should seek help then, specifically to get over the stress you feel about being trans. Being transgender does not make you violent or abusive in any way. Honestly, there really isn't much of a difference between a trans person vs a straight person as far as their character goes. Those are some very personnel details you posted. That doesn't bother me, but I hope you don't feel uncomfortable disclosing information that personnel online. Nah it's fine really. don't mind dropping my spaghetti every now and then. If I embarrass myself that's fine because it ultimately doesn't hurt to be dumb every now and then. If it is about safety it's fine there as well, I'm pretty hard to dox as I am now. |
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| As a transgender I do like when I see good representation but also I think the fact that representation isn't that high and is pretty much solely combined with artist intent is a good thing. I'm mostly a battlehead but Shimanami Tasogare is a pretty damn good LGBT manga if you're into that sort of thing. I need to read Paradise Kiss but university is crushing my time. Also watching Yoshihiro Togashi become more accepting of transgenderism over his 3 major manga is rather amusing to me. |
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| I don't agree with it having a disproportionate spotlight cast on it in any form of media and I have a lot of different views on the transgender debate I neither expect to see nor am seeking out to be reflected in my anime, so it's just something I'd rather actively avoid. Postmodern identity politics in the West is among the very few things I'm not actually interested in so if I know that is a prominent theme in any work, I'll generally steer clear. There is a saying that goes something like "Everything is politics, everything is political" which has truth in it, but being someone interested in history/politics outside of anime, I don't need the take on issues like that of a bunch of ideologues being shoved down my throat in this medium. I love controversial and provocative, divisive issues injected into my art, but not on these 21st century cosmopolitan social identity issues. It's way overdone (not necessarily in anime, but in Western formats) and I won't likely either agree or find much merit or new light shed by what the people writing it have to say. |
WatchTillTandavaSep 18, 2019 9:44 PM
AbsurdistOtaku said: impfunny said: also saying people who "worry about representation" in media need to go outside more is honestly a little hilarious seeing as diversity is quite literally the norm in the real world I think people want more characters to represent them in anime, simply because it makes it easier to connect with them. However, at the same time, I theorize that that's bullshit for 2 reasons: 1) I'm Turkish. There are no Turkish characters in anime I know of, nor do I stress about it. 2) Anime in general, especially Dragon Ball Z, is extremely popular among black people, despite the lack of black representation. I think while a character having the same sexual orientation/race as you do can slightly make it easier to connect with them, what's ultimately going to make you feel attached to a character is their personality and backstory. The reason why I want more representation of other races and sexual orientations in anime, is simply because it'd be more interesting to see. diversity is just a natural thing, imo. humans as a whole are diverse. i think its more of a seeing someone like you on the screen thing. like, to know you could be that super cool hero or whatever beating on some antagonist. i could get into a billion different studies on how lack of representation has effected black kids in america specifically, but i'd be getting WAY off topic and this is an anime forum. anyways, you're right that it'd be more interesting. what i really wanna see is some kinda typical shounen or whatever but the mc just so happens to be gay/trans. call me crazy but i'd let someone spoonfeed me that shit like a baby bird |
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YossaRedMage said: Uh, I think you're being a little overly sensitive here, seemingly anticipating OP's (honestly pretty open-ended) question prompt as a threat of the form of "uh-oh, people are gonna try to force trans people into anime", when basically no one mentioned anything of that sort. Also I don't see what the suicide rate has to do with this. Nor your mention of "constraints on my speech". (That's what made your post seem rather odd, you seem like you're replying to something, but it's not in the thread; OTOH it only makes sense when I think of what I know about your views, from other threads.)Did you know the rates of attempted suicide within the trasngender population is shockingly high? You can google it. I'm not going to quote a single number because the percentages out there vary. But it's like 20-40%. Some will say it's because being transgender is a mental "disorder" in the first place which inevitably leads to self-harm. Others will say it's because of social attitudes and bullying. One thing I know for sure, it has nothing to do with the amount of transgender people in goddamned anime or any other media. It is social / mental health issue. Forcing artists to bend their vision to fit an agenda will not produce good art. To go off on a little tangent / rant, I probably land somewhere in between the two views expressed earlier in this comment. But being on the side of individual liberty above all else, I think people should be allowed to dress, act and have whatever surgery they want. However, constraints on my speech is a step too far. I love women. I worship feminine beauty, and I will not use the term women for a man who has transitioned. But my speech should be my business. I definitely agree that art should be allowed to flourish without forcing it in certain directions, but art is also a vehicle by which people explore ideas, so by that same token we should not be getting in the way of those artists and art-lovers who do desire to see more art that has, say, more trans characters. (Presuming that they're only doing it for a forced agenda and attempting to defend them pre-emptively would be inappropriately white-knighting them.) |
| Avatar character is Gabriel from Gabriel DropOut. |
AbsurdistOtaku said: Yeah, I definitely agree that "representation" is very not a one-to-one relation to the real world. After all, there are zero elves and zero dragonkin in our world, so why do they get so much representation? :P More relevantly, an effectively-delivered story is one that can put the audience into someone else's shoes, namely the character's. The audience need not actually be similar to empathize -- the same way we are capable of empathizing with people who are unlike ourselves, in real life.impfunny said: also saying people who "worry about representation" in media need to go outside more is honestly a little hilarious seeing as diversity is quite literally the norm in the real world I think people want more characters to represent them in anime, simply because it makes it easier to connect with them. However, at the same time, I theorize that that's bullshit for 2 reasons: 1) I'm Turkish. There are no Turkish characters in anime I know of, nor do I stress about it. 2) Anime in general, especially Dragon Ball Z, is extremely popular among black people, despite the lack of black representation. I think while a character having the same sexual orientation/race as you do can slightly make it easier to connect with them, what's ultimately going to make you feel attached to a character is their personality and backstory. The reason why I want more representation of other races and sexual orientations in anime, is simply because it'd be more interesting to see. That said, it can be fun to see stuff that one is familiar with, in someone else's artwork. These are still touchpoints of the human experience. And it's also why we have anime that make shout-outs to other anime series, or anime with settings inspired by JRPGs, for example. And even if it's the shallowest point of trivia ever, it can still be a neat thing to see something one feels related to (or interested in) in anime. Doubly so if it's done right. (No, we U.S. Americans aren't all blond-hair blue-eyes machismo-addicted louts.) TL;DR I basically agree with you. |
| Avatar character is Gabriel from Gabriel DropOut. |
| I think that people who can't relate to a character unless it's like them simply just lack imagination. I don't need to be a badass, teenage magical girl suffering from PTSD or pervy French international thief to watch a show about one. |
KruszerSep 19, 2019 12:04 AM
| "The name's Gambit. Remember it." -Gambit "X-Men '97"  |
| Don't have any strong feelings about that to be honest, don't remember a transgender person in any anime I've watched so far and I'm fine with that. In reality I only read about the transgender discussions in a negative way and I don't really spend too much time thinking about it. Not keen on seeing any of that in my entertainment media. |
| Nowdays trans rep is not much, but it’s better than what it used to be. And apparently there are some Otokonoko animes/mangas that deal with the transgender issues from what I heard. |
Those who make revolutions, those who want to do good in the world, must sleep only in the tomb. |
| There isn't lot of truly transgender characters in anime, traps are more usual but they aren't really trans (they identify as their birth sex despite how plp see them). Then there is plots about being raised as different gender, but not completely identifying with it so that's not trans either. But recently there was Lily from Zombie land saga who is trans and it seemed to be portrayed alright? Then I think Stein's Gate has trans character, but it goes about it in quite weird way.. And this isn't same as trans either, but Kanata no Astra has intersex character with Luca and i think that was pretty interesting, I can't even remember i saw intersex character in any media last time. |
| Transgender characters are rarely treated well, and it all comes down to a character beens trans, or a cross dresser. I dont think they are necessarily the same in Japanese LGBT+ culture, but it's a bit hard to figure out what way a character will go especially when of these anime are written and directed by cis men lol I think that Ixion Saga treated their trans character really well, not often throwing jokes at her expense. And I think Felix in Re:Zero was relatively positively represented. I'm cis though, so I can't exactly recommend the representation of these shows as being outright positive lol Really bad trans rep is Stein's Gate. Which is sad because I really loved the character, but she's treated so poorly.. |
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| I think 'representation' is generally more of an issue for live-action rather than media which trend strongly towards unrealism. But I'm generally in favour of seeing non-standard people of all types, since that's more interesting than seeing the same sorts of characters you get again and again, and that includes trans people. (So long as they're not done with horrible stereotypes or otherwise hated by the narrative.) |
KomaDoll said: But recently there was Lily from Zombie land saga who is trans and it seemed to be portrayed alright? That's a good call -- I had totally forgotten about Lily. Her reveal caused far more intrigue and outrage in anime fandom than in the show, where it was ultimately handled in nonchalant fashion by most characters. I would say shounen and seinen handle trans characters poorly compared to the medium as a whole -- but that's true for just about every LGBT character. I'm an unrepentant yuri-phile, but I find few things more annoying than played-out, obsessed lesbian archetypes in anime (Chizuru from Bleach, for example). |
| Harem is the opiate of the Anime fandom masses. |
| Off the top of my head I can think of maybe four trans characters in anime. Alice from Chivalry of a Failed Knight, Lily from Zombieland Saga and the two leads from Wandering Son. I wouldn't have a problem with seeing more trans characters in anime. It's actually a scientific fact that your story would be 50% better if the main character was LGBT in some way. Sorry, I don't make the rules. Seriously though, if you see the inclusion of trans or LGBT characters in anime as a problem, then that's a problem with you, not with the show. Get over it you absolute babies. |
ChilliePeppersSep 19, 2019 1:44 AM
ZedClodRaker said: KomaDoll said: But recently there was Lily from Zombie land saga who is trans and it seemed to be portrayed alright? That's a good call -- I had totally forgotten about Lily. Her reveal caused far more intrigue and outrage in anime fandom than in the show, where it was ultimately handled in nonchalant fashion by most characters. I would say shounen and seinen handle trans characters poorly compared to the medium as a whole -- but that's true for just about every LGBT character. I'm an unrepentant yuri-phile, but I find few things more annoying than played-out, obsessed lesbian archetypes in anime (Chizuru from Bleach, for example). Shonen it probably worst offender, i have seen so many times gay men played as sexual predators in those. In other hand seinen sometimes has quite good approach to lesbian characters and relationships between women like Psycho Pass. |
YossaRedMage said: stfu im mad af that us proud black men don't get enough representation in anime, you wouldn't say that if you weren't some scrawny white guyI think the sort of people who worry about "representation" in media need to - quite unironically - go outside more. Honestly, the less time they are on here or Twitter the happier everyone will be. itt: people discussing cross-dressing and not transgender representation |
 hiSets Last FM Anime List Manga List Clue no. 2: Somewhere in one of the pictures in my forum signature. |
| I don't like when a character is just thrown in there for no real reason and no depth of character as well as with them being a trap or trans never really plays much into the actual plot. I prefer when things are purposeful or meaningful. The manga Bokura no Hentai (note hentai here doesn't mean pervert) has a trans girl in it that was depicted well I think aside from the ending where .. the rest of the characters are gender non conforming (which technically counts as transgender but a different sort) with a nice variety of reasons behind their cross dressing though I should note the reasons aren't all positive. It's not perfect but it had multiple situations depicted in a single manga which I think is a nice way to express things because it doesn't push a single narative onto trans folk. I'm on the fence on what is up in Steins;Gate . That one character in Mahou Shoujo Site (anime/manga) is alright and it's relatively apparent they are not a biological female right away. I recall a character in Tokyo Godfathers that although the depiction is somewhat comedic I recall the character being kind of endearing but it's been so long since I've seen it I can't count on my vague memory. |
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| Transgender people are part of our reality, so it shouldn't be any shock to have them in manga/anime. I have seen a few characters that are or can be read as transgender and I'm fine with them. Lily from Zombieland Saga, Hana from Tokyo Godfathers, the two leads from Hourou Musuko, Alluka from Hunter X Hunter, perhaps Mama from Carole & Tuesday. And maybe some other example I can't recall right now. There's some other characters who are agender/non-binary (Kino from Kino no tabi would be an example) but focusing on trans characters these are the ones that come to mind. Worrying about how trans rep is "shoehorned" is negating a reality in which trans people exist and being overreactive towards the mere idea of having alternative gender identities in fiction that match the spectrum of reality. Heck, it's normal that trans rep, since it's a representation of a minority with several social stigmas, has an element of political assertion. That doesn't make it forced. And honestly, if people like or are happy with seeing themselves represented in media, who are you to single that out as a bad thing or to treat this feeling or attachment as something futile? Holy shit. |
MindOfOsaka said: Yeah, yeah."respect me, i am a minority" xD jeez. As a gay dude, I do not need to be represented in a positive light. You do not get great stories nor good characters that way. And how do you get great stories or good characters, by representing them in a negative light? I don't understand what do you have against characters being shown in a positive light. Not that you don't need it, that's on you, but that you don't seem to believe that it can lead to good storytelling. It's a bit confusing. |
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