Slavery and Outrage

Sisyphusson66 said:
I wouldn't say that the show supports or neglects the history of slavery and its evils. Instead, what the show and manga (which is what I know) do is frame his action of buying a slave and slavery as a necessity for him, while at the same time condemning it, all without demonstrating Naofumi as being morally compromised for doing so. Naofumi's action of purchasing a slave was important not because it was his last place to turn (he had been on his own for maybe a few days at most at that point, and hadn't ventured very far looking for companions), but because of the seal keeping them from disobeying (betraying) him. The anime actually leaves some stuff out of the manga that would have made this reasoning very problematic.

Slavery is also deemed to be important in the story because it is the only way he can share exp. with his party at this time. Now, whether or not someone finds this aspect problematic is up to them, but I will say that later in the story this comes up again, and it is far more problematic there.

As well, the owning of a slave will come back into play around episode 6 or 7 as my estimate, but for now, his treatment of Raphtalia is framed in relation to the general masses' treatment of her, with Naofumi coming off as the more caring, morally right character, even though she lacks autonomy.

Sasori_Nagashi said:
With the advent of episode 1 we saw some pretty heavy whining from political extremists and people experiencing some form of moral discomfort about the concept of a man being a victim at the hands of a woman using the legal system as a weapon. A few made outlandish arguments that it would lead to real-world violence against women.

It seems a handful of people have began expressing outrage about how slavery is treated in the series. One extremist I engaged on social media claimed the Shield Hero treating the slave he purchased with kindness was MORE "problematic" than if he outright abused her. Their argument essentially was that treating a slave kindly "white washes" (lol what? Literally non-white media...) the history of slavery. Despite the fact it's shown in detail that slavery in the overworld is a pretty horrific practice.

Any thoughts on how the series handles slavery?

MaskOfIce said:


I generally agree, but I think I draw more of an issue on one point and less on another. I personally am of the opinion that I believe Naofumi is morally compromised by choosing to purchase a slave. Yes, it was hard going and he wasn't making much progress and no one in town would venture with him, but my personal stance is just because it's hard doesn't make it right. That's a huge part of why I was very tempted to just say "I don't care about anyone anymore, this series is not for me". As for less on another, at the very least the anime seemed to make it clear that it is possible to share exp with party members when Naofumi expressed surprise at sharing exp and the shopkeeper responded "didn't you do that with the woman from before?", so it's less giving a distinct mechanical advantage to owning slaves because a willing cooperative party member appears to be able to do the same.

I'd say overall my issue and why I'm still unsure about the series is not the depiction as a whole, but rather the fact that our protagonist willingly takes part in it, despite coming from a world that determined it to be a horrific practice ages ago. To me, the "he has no choice" logic doesn't hold much water because my personal stance is there's always a choice, no matter how bad things get. And while it's true he treats her better than the rest of society, that doesn't mean much when he comes from a modern world, since he has none of the biases that would form the basis of someone looking down on slaves.

Afloo said:
I don't see how it Should be Problematic. Media has had Slaves since Media was Invented. The only difference I see with its use in this series compared to others is that Naofumi Treats his Slave like his own daughter. People that end up bitching have to only have watched the first 5 minutes of the Episode or they Only saw the Botton 1/5 of the screen, just reading the Subs while ignoring The MCs Actions.

MaskOfIce said:


I generally agree, but I think I draw more of an issue on one point and less on another. I personally am of the opinion that I believe Naofumi is morally compromised by choosing to purchase a slave. Yes, it was hard going and he wasn't making much progress and no one in town would venture with him, but my personal stance is just because it's hard doesn't make it right. That's a huge part of why I was very tempted to just say "I don't care about anyone anymore, this series is not for me". As for less on another, at the very least the anime seemed to make it clear that it is possible to share exp with party members when Naofumi expressed surprise at sharing exp and the shopkeeper responded "didn't you do that with the woman from before?", so it's less giving a distinct mechanical advantage to owning slaves because a willing cooperative party member appears to be able to do the same.

I'd say overall my issue and why I'm still unsure about the series is not the depiction as a whole, but rather the fact that our protagonist willingly takes part in it, despite coming from a world that determined it to be a horrific practice ages ago. To me, the "he has no choice" logic doesn't hold much water because my personal stance is there's always a choice, no matter how bad things get. And while it's true he treats her better than the rest of society, that doesn't mean much when he comes from a modern world, since he has none of the biases that would form the basis of someone looking down on slaves.

MaskOfIce said:


One other big difference that kinda recontextualizes a lot, most media where somebody owns a slave, the slaveowner was raised in a system where this was normal. Naofumi was not. He does treat her well comparatively, but he does come from a world where the thought of owning a person is considered a horrific crime. And since he doesn't have the internal biases that makes the thought of treating a slave as non-human normal, I don't think it says much that he treats her kindly in general. I will give him that he's going above and beyond "treating her well" by paying attention to what she wants and giving her gifts, however he also has yet to even think about releasing her and is still willing to order her around when necessary which causes her pain, so it still kinda balances out to a net "so what?"

MaskOfIce said:
@BlakexEkalb, I do agree that framed in that context, it is more ethical to purchase the slave than let her rot. However, as the audience, that is not the mindset we are seeing, the mindset we see is "A slave will be useful, I'll buy one", and that's why I personally don't agree with his choice. If that's not how you see it, then that's fine, but to me that was what I saw, and with that being the mindset, I have a problem with his actions.

As for saving the world, why should he care about the lives of others? I thought he made it pretty clear the only reason he's fighting to save the world is to get back to his own. This world has basically said "fuck you" at every turn, so my impression was he doesn't care about the world, he just cares about getting home. Which is fair, but doesn't exactly give him a moral high ground.

BlakexEkalb said:


Yes there is still the "ordering around" part, but it is for the greater good. We could go around in circles all day discussing how he still isn't releasing her, but the purpose of it is to save millions of other lives in that world. He has no other choice in the matter, if he fails the world is potentially destroyed. So you have three choices: you can either purchase the slave and treat her as an equal to you but still have the ability to boss her around, let the whole world get destroyed, or buy another slave and let her go back and rot in her cage or even possibly he killed.

Fede_5000 said:
you are reducing all this to "the end justifies the means" if you really believe that this policy works, then we better forget all moral rule, if it is necessary to save the world then he should steal all shops and deceive everyone. This does not work like that, never a despicable act should be justified because then it would only be a hypocrite.

Fede_5000 said:
you are reducing all this to "the end justifies the means" if you really believe that this policy works, then we better forget all moral rule, if it is necessary to save the world then he should steal all shops and deceive everyone. This does not work like that, never a despicable act should be justified because then it would only be a hypocrite.

thepath said:
Does the main character always have to be 'moral' and the 'good' guy and follows modern western morality/laws?!

ALso, if you believe slavery wrong then that just subjective opinion. It is not like 1+1 = 2. People thousands year ago did not see it as wrong like today, slavery was normal at that time.

And I'm sure most people in real life would have done much worse if they were put Naofumi's shoe. Many real life men would perform sexual act with the female slave if they have the freedom to do whatever they want with their slaves.

thepath said:
Does the main character always have to be 'moral' and the 'good' guy and follows modern western morality/laws?!

ALso, if you believe slavery wrong then that just subjective opinion. It is not like 1+1 = 2. People thousands year ago did not see it as wrong like today, slavery was normal at that time.

And I'm sure most people in real life would have done much worse if they were put Naofumi's shoe. Many real life men would perform sexual act with the female slave if they have the freedom to do whatever they want with their slaves.

And there are times where the end of a situation is the best part to view. It's like the train scenario: save 1 or save 10 people? Sometimes you have to look at whichever situation has a better outcome, even tough they may both be sucky. The choice Naofumi made is the right one. He saved the girl, treats her equally, and will help save the world.

Dhyan_manu said:

He buys slaves for few main reasons
1. To get warriors since the soldiers of the country becomes incompetent after some waves since he has the slave growth correction to boost exp gain he buys all the demi human slaves.
2. To give raphtalia a place to call home, he creates the slave village so that when the waves end if he were to return back to his world then raphtalia could live there happily.
3. Survival comes first he will do everything in order to survive since he isn't fighting for country. You might ask why should he even fight the waves then but Heroes doesn't have a choice in the matter of fighting the waves since they will automatically be teleported there whether they like it or not.
4. Naofumi never wanted to be a good guy in front of everyone he didn't give a damn to what other people think about him.

BadAshley said:


Just examples from isekai:

Momonga/Ainz had his subordinate Demiurge breed humans with demis and used their skins for parchment--also had parents watch as their children were eaten...

Sadao Maou had entire human villages wiped out in the most horrible way when he was the devil in his world.

Tanya is a Nazi witch who kills everything and is not above committing war crimes--or at least "bending the law" when it comes to war.

The Drifters are bloodthirsty killers from all over history who have no problems going on killing sprees.

Fede_5000 said:

Okay if you want to think like that, anyway this show is about an antihero, should you develop this plot having shades of gray right? Well, then do so, but well and not only fall into the excuse that everything can justify just because he is a saint along with all his women, while the rest of the world are evil and stupid because if.

Dhyan_manu said:

No one is actually evil in this story except bitch, that includes the king as well they all hate him for a reason which is justifiable in their perspective.

Anowser said:


All of MAL's SJW are here, on this thread.

The anime Magi also has pretty extreme slavery in it yet I never saw anyone get so enraged by it.

I don't see what the problem is with how this series deals with its slavery.

Janethan23 said:
For real... discussions these days aren't about the anime itself anymore. It's all about pushing their politics and agendas. They've been hijacking forums and we've been stupid enough to indulge them by giving them the slightest attention.
Too bad I'm not a moderator; I would close these so called discussions in a heartbeat and ban who ever starts them to keep this site from being used as a tool for politics and all the other social justice nonsense that never belonged in an anime.

Sasori_Nagashi said:
With the advent of episode 1 we saw some pretty heavy whining from political extremists and people experiencing some form of moral discomfort about the concept of a man being a victim at the hands of a woman using the legal system as a weapon. A few made outlandish arguments that it would lead to real-world violence against women.

It seems a handful of people have began expressing outrage about how slavery is treated in the series. One extremist I engaged on social media claimed the Shield Hero treating the slave he purchased with kindness was MORE "problematic" than if he outright abused her. Their argument essentially was that treating a slave kindly "white washes" (lol what? Literally non-white media...) the history of slavery. Despite the fact it's shown in detail that slavery in the overworld is a pretty horrific practice.

Any thoughts on how the series handles slavery?

Sasori_Nagashi said:
With the advent of episode 1 we saw some pretty heavy whining from political extremists and people experiencing some form of moral discomfort about the concept of a man being a victim at the hands of a woman using the legal system as a weapon. A few made outlandish arguments that it would lead to real-world violence against women.

It seems a handful of people have began expressing outrage about how slavery is treated in the series. One extremist I engaged on social media claimed the Shield Hero treating the slave he purchased with kindness was MORE "problematic" than if he outright abused her. Their argument essentially was that treating a slave kindly "white washes" (lol what? Literally non-white media...) the history of slavery. Despite the fact it's shown in detail that slavery in the overworld is a pretty horrific practice.

Any thoughts on how the series handles slavery?

rieihdius said:


People is just over reacting as usual.
All I can tell you is that no matter what you try to argue with the kind of people you are mentioning in your comment, they will always give you an answer that fit their agenda. Even if you prove them wrong: They will just double down at you with the most insane excuse.

Look at it this way:
- If MC buys slaves and treat them like human beings instead of as slaves: They say the show portrays slavery as something good.

- If the MC buy slaves and treat them like garbage: They would say is too violent and that it promotes slavery as well.

- If MC does not buy the slaves: They would say something like: he did not save them, he let them to their death or to be purchased by another person, thus it promotes slavery.

If MC buys slave, then release them: same as before, they would argue that slave can be re captured and re selled, therefore he didn't save them.

You could keep arguing with those people for hours and they will always keep saying the most crazy stuff. If you finally are able to break their will and prove them wrong, they will just resort to call you a sexist, racist, etc.

Don't get me wrong, I am not saying that everyone who feel offended about the show or, the ones who don't like it are completly wrong. Everyone is entitled to their own opinon.
However, the ones that are Twitter, reddit or forum activist that promotes censorship and hate on pretty much everything that don't fit their agenda, those people don't want to have a healty conversation about the issue, they just want to censor everything that goes against their politics and shame averyone who disagree with them.

rieihdius said:


People is just over reacting as usual.
All I can tell you is that no matter what you try to argue with the kind of people you are mentioning in your comment, they will always give you an answer that fit their agenda. Even if you prove them wrong: They will just double down at you with the most insane excuse.

Look at it this way:
- If MC buys slaves and treat them like human beings instead of as slaves: They say the show portrays slavery as something good.

- If the MC buy slaves and treat them like garbage: They would say is too violent and that it promotes slavery as well.

- If MC does not buy the slaves: They would say something like: he did not save them, he let them to their death or to be purchased by another person, thus it promotes slavery.

If MC buys slave, then release them: same as before, they would argue that slave can be re captured and re selled, therefore he didn't save them.

You could keep arguing with those people for hours and they will always keep saying the most crazy stuff. If you finally are able to break their will and prove them wrong, they will just resort to call you a sexist, racist, etc.

Don't get me wrong, I am not saying that everyone who feel offended about the show or, the ones who don't like it are completly wrong. Everyone is entitled to their own opinon.
However, the ones that are Twitter, reddit or forum activist that promotes censorship and hate on pretty much everything that don't fit their agenda, those people don't want to have a healty conversation about the issue, they just want to censor everything that goes against their politics and shame averyone who disagree with them.

AForgottenSoul said:
I just facepalm at these complains would you rather her stay as a slave and die in that cage or bought and actually live a life??

This is a work of fiction. Names, characters, places and incidents either are products of the author’s imagination or are used fictitiously. Any resemblance to actual events or locales or persons, living or dead, is entirely coincidental.

Sasori_Nagashi said:


It seems a handful of people have began expressing outrage about how slavery is treated in the series. One extremist I engaged on social media claimed the Shield Hero treating the slave he purchased with kindness was MORE "problematic" than if he outright abused her. Their argument essentially was that treating a slave kindly "white washes" (lol what? Literally non-white media...) the history of slavery. Despite the fact it's shown in detail that slavery in the overworld is a pretty horrific practice.

Any thoughts on how the series handles slavery?

Janethan23 said:
For real... discussions these days aren't about the anime itself anymore. It's all about pushing their politics and agendas. They've been hijacking forums and we've been stupid enough to indulge them by giving them the slightest attention.
Too bad I'm not a moderator; I would close these so called discussions in a heartbeat and ban who ever starts them to keep this site from being used as a tool for politics and all the other social justice nonsense that never belonged in an anime.

Sasori_Nagashi said:


So basically you'd be a terrible moderator and drive the site into the ground?