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| It isnt a spoiler. They said who he is in this episode. Mod Edit: Modified quote of edited post. |
ShockedSep 30, 2017 9:25 PM
| Just noticed this. Mod Edit: Modified quote of edited post. |
ShockedSep 30, 2017 9:25 PM
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| So the battle itself was just a diversion to allow the reds to launch an attack to grab the grail then. Crafty of them. So Vlad's power comes from the very ground that he steps on in his country then. Despite Red lancer's words it seems that Vlad is determined to fight it out To think that Vlad's noble phantasm was him becoming a vampire though. So Darnic's ultimate dream was to become immortal then wow. Darnic taking over Lancer's body though really was unexpected. Poor Vlad though being betrayed like that though. Its funny how this fight now turned into a teamup against Darnic/Vlad though. So just like a normal vampire Vlad can also create new vampires via bites then. This is quite the predicament that both factions found themselves in i have to say. And it looks like ruler got there just in time it seems. Its nice to see that both fiore and Caules are still unharmed so far. With Darnic now a vampire it seems the only one with intelligence is Fiore. Its seeing Fiore take charge of the situation swiftly though and really puts her in good stead. But man to think that Ruler can unite the servants from sides to face Darnic though. But him gaining the grail will the worst outcome possible. The fight against Darnic though really was impressive. So Shirou decided to kill all of his fellow masters in this war then. Man its really hard to see just which side he is actually on here. So it seems that Shirou and Darnic do know each other. Well Darnic died a rather painful death literally turned into a pincushion with the pins being swords imbued with holy powers it seems. And Ruler finally meets Shirou at last. So that was shirou's true identity then that was surprising. An interesting episode and one that was really surprising as well. |
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Mod Edit: Modified quote of edited post. |
ShockedSep 30, 2017 9:28 PM
Veromaye said: No. Wait what? Mind explaining this? I'm currently reading Fate route and I don't understand what you mean with that. Mod Edit: Added spoiler tags; please hide plot details. |
ShockedSep 30, 2017 9:33 PM
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Mod Edit: Added spoiler tags; please hide plot details. |
ShockedSep 30, 2017 9:33 PM
| We haven't seen it because it was never written. Mod Edit: Modified quote of edited post. |
ShockedSep 30, 2017 9:35 PM
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Ok now I'm 100% confused, guys. :D Mod Edit: Modified quote of edited post. |
ShockedSep 30, 2017 9:35 PM
Veromaye said: None of the 3 Shirous we see becomes Archer. Simple as that.JaredMithrandir said: UBW and Heaven's Feel both prevent him becoming Archer. So clearly Archer's origin story is the Fate Route, or at least one ending of it. Ok now I'm 100% confused, guys. :D |
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| Aaahhhhhh so Shiro became a Ruler servant, with an Assassin servant?... So hes now become a servant twice?... And Dracula is dead... and didn't want to be a vampire? |
A Wild and Small Otaku has Appeared! |
| Vlad got fucked pretty fast. Its kind of funny that seemingly all of Japan uses the same pool of sound bytes for all of their anime, so every time I'm watching fight scenes happening here (particularly with Karna) all I can hear are Kirito sword clashes and the explosions from Heavy Object. Nice to see waifu Jeanne showing up and taking charge. So going off what I'm reading from people here, Jeanne has a total of 28 command spells she can use, two for each servant on both sides. I would ask why she cant use any against Shirou, but I guess that answers my question. She doesn't have any she can use against him. Now I would assume that since Shirou claimed to be a Ruler as well, that he would have the same amount of spells as well? And that he also couldn't use any against her? So they'd be at a stalemate of one using a command spell on a servant and the other just canceling it out. This also doesn't take into account that Jeanne used two of hers already, and Shirou (probably) hasn't used any yet, not including the 18(?) he got from the brainwashed red masters. I also don't know the significance of the name Amakusa Shirou Tokisada, if that's just a historical name or has meaning in the Fate franchise...but it sure doesn't sound like a friendly name. |
DuoraDoll said: Aaahhhhhh so Shiro became a Ruler servant, with an Assassin servant?... So hes now become a servant twice?... And Dracula is dead... and didn't want to be a vampire? Shirou Kotomine is not Emiya Shirou. He's a completely different, unrelated person. Vlad has stated multiple times that he despises the legend of Count Dracula, the vampire modeled after his figure. He was a man, a hero, and a religious king who believed in God and in the honor of his family, and he feels that thinking of him as a devious monster (vampires were also often associated with Satan in the past) is an insult to his family name. Vlad was not a vampire, and he didn't want to use the Noble Phantasm that Darnic forced him to activate, because it literally takes all of that infamy and turns him into Dracula. I hope that makes it clear. Jonesy974 said: Vlad got fucked pretty fast. Indeed, but that's what happens when a vampire meets a priest specialized in killing demons and undead. And that priest was also a Servant, so that's double the power Jonesy974 said: So going off what I'm reading from people here, Jeanne has a total of 28 command spells she can use, two for each servant on both sides. I would ask why she cant use any against Shirou, but I guess that answers my question. She doesn't have any she can use against him. Now I would assume that since Shirou claimed to be a Ruler as well, that he would have the same amount of spells as well? And that he also couldn't use any against her? So they'd be at a stalemate of one using a command spell on a servant and the other just canceling it out. This also doesn't take into account that Jeanne used two of hers already, and Shirou (probably) hasn't used any yet, not including the 18(?) he got from the brainwashed red masters. I also don't know the significance of the name Amakusa Shirou Tokisada, if that's just a historical name or has meaning in the Fate franchise...but it sure doesn't sound like a friendly name. She has Command Spells for every Servant summoned in the war, but Shirou has been around for sixty years, he wasn't summoned in the war in Trifas, so she has no power over him. In case of a future lack of explanations from the anime, I'll just say this: Amakusa Shirou Tokisada is an apocryphal saint, well known in Japan. You can find more info about him online, here's just a sample from wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amakusa_Shir%C5%8D Jk9 said: And I don't really like this Ruler character because she can't handle the situation well and like didn't know what is her role from the start and too much thinking too. Is there a real rules for Holy Grail War from the start? Ruler is summoned if there is some big risk for the HGW to cause massive damage (bigger than what happened in Zero and stay Night), but she herself is not informed of what could cause. So she has to watch over the war and correct any anomalies. But she had a problem since her very summon, and that's what was bothering her from the beginning. The rest will be explained. Btw yes, there are rules in the HGW. Even if magi often try to break them, there are rules and all this mess is still better than what it was when there weren't mediators or rules of any kind Mod Edit: Modified quote of edited post. |
ShockedSep 30, 2017 9:36 PM
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LeloTheUnamused said: DuoraDoll said: Aaahhhhhh so Shiro became a Ruler servant, with an Assassin servant?... So hes now become a servant twice?... And Dracula is dead... and didn't want to be a vampire? Shirou Kotomine is not Emiya Shirou. He's a completely different, unrelated person. Vlad has stated multiple times that he despises the legend of Count Dracula, the vampire modeled after his figure. He was a man, a hero, and a religious king who believed in God and in the honor of his family, and he feels that thinking of him as a devious monster (vampires were also often associated with Satan in the past) is an insult to his family name. Vlad was not a vampire, and he didn't want to use the Noble Phantasm that Darnic forced him to activate, because it literally takes all of that infamy and turns him into Dracula. I hope that makes it clear. Jonesy974 said: Vlad got fucked pretty fast. Indeed, but that's what happens when a vampire meets a priest specialized in killing demons and undead. And that priest was also a Servant, so that's double the power Jonesy974 said: So going off what I'm reading from people here, Jeanne has a total of 28 command spells she can use, two for each servant on both sides. I would ask why she cant use any against Shirou, but I guess that answers my question. She doesn't have any she can use against him. Now I would assume that since Shirou claimed to be a Ruler as well, that he would have the same amount of spells as well? And that he also couldn't use any against her? So they'd be at a stalemate of one using a command spell on a servant and the other just canceling it out. This also doesn't take into account that Jeanne used two of hers already, and Shirou (probably) hasn't used any yet, not including the 18(?) he got from the brainwashed red masters. I also don't know the significance of the name Amakusa Shirou Tokisada, if that's just a historical name or has meaning in the Fate franchise...but it sure doesn't sound like a friendly name. She has Command Spells for every Servant summoned in the war, but Shirou has been around for sixty years, he wasn't summoned in the war in Trifas, so she has no power over him. In case of a future lack of explanations from the anime, I'll just say this: Amakusa Shirou Tokisada is an apocryphal saint, well known in Japan. You can find more info about him online, here's just a sample from wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amakusa_Shir%C5%8D Jk9 said: And I don't really like this Ruler character because she can't handle the situation well and like didn't know what is her role from the start and too much thinking too. Is there a real rules for Holy Grail War from the start? Ruler is summoned if there is some big risk for the HGW to cause massive damage (bigger than what happened in Zero and stay Night), but she herself is not informed of what could cause. So she has to watch over the war and correct any anomalies. But she had a problem since her very summon, and that's what was bothering her from the beginning. The rest will be explained. Btw yes, there are rules in the HGW. Even if magi often try to break them, there are rules and all this mess is still better than what it was when there weren't mediators or rules of any kind Hmmm... THANK YOU GOOD SIR. I honestly can't get invested enough into the anime itself to really figure out all this stuff (I sort of just watch it for the action and to place bets on whose gonna die next) so having someone capable and willing to explain certain things like this is extremely helpful. So once again, thank you. Mod Edit: Modified quote of edited post. |
ShockedSep 30, 2017 9:37 PM
| A Wild and Small Otaku has Appeared! |
Fate/Apocrypha: |
| Would like to see this translated tbh |
My Queens  |
frenze12 said: LeloTheUnamused said: Ruler is summoned if there is some big risk for the HGW to cause massive damage (bigger than what happened in Zero and stay Night), but she herself is not informed of what could cause. So she has to watch over the war and correct any anomalies. But she had a problem since her very summon, and that's what was bothering her from the beginning. The rest will be explained. Btw yes, there are rules in the HGW. Even if magi often try to break them, there are rules and all this mess is still better than what it was when there weren't mediators or rules of any kind Correction, the reason why there was no ruler in Fate/zero and Fate stay night was because a certain "entity" that got summoned instead of ruler in the third grail war corrupted the holy grail. I mean it seemed obvious that both in fate/zero and fate stay night that entity would have caused the end of humanity (or at the very least killed a lot people, but considered this guy is second to fluffy the terrible in killing humans.... so yeau...) Seems kinda dumb if Ruler wouldn't be summoned for this... unless something prevented it (like the corruption of the system itself ;)) OH Yeah that makes far more sense, I don't know why I didn't think of that. Was it stated in some interview/material? |
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| oh!... a troublesome vampire at last Ruler & Kotomine finally met... 4/5. |
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Fate/Apocrypha Episode 13 Preview (2nd Cour - PV) The Second Cour Key Visual  |
Where did you read that? Fate route Shirou so there is no way he is Archer. Mod Edit: Added spoiler tags; please hide plot details. |
ShockedSep 30, 2017 9:37 PM
LeloTheUnamused said: DuoraDoll said: Aaahhhhhh so Shiro became a Ruler servant, with an Assassin servant?... So hes now become a servant twice?... And Dracula is dead... and didn't want to be a vampire? Shirou Kotomine is not Emiya Shirou. He's a completely different, unrelated person. Vlad has stated multiple times that he despises the legend of Count Dracula, the vampire modeled after his figure. He was a man, a hero, and a religious king who believed in God and in the honor of his family, and he feels that thinking of him as a devious monster (vampires were also often associated with Satan in the past) is an insult to his family name. Vlad was not a vampire, and he didn't want to use the Noble Phantasm that Darnic forced him to activate, because it literally takes all of that infamy and turns him into Dracula. I hope that makes it clear. Jonesy974 said: Vlad got fucked pretty fast. Indeed, but that's what happens when a vampire meets a priest specialized in killing demons and undead. And that priest was also a Servant, so that's double the power Jonesy974 said: So going off what I'm reading from people here, Jeanne has a total of 28 command spells she can use, two for each servant on both sides. I would ask why she cant use any against Shirou, but I guess that answers my question. She doesn't have any she can use against him. Now I would assume that since Shirou claimed to be a Ruler as well, that he would have the same amount of spells as well? And that he also couldn't use any against her? So they'd be at a stalemate of one using a command spell on a servant and the other just canceling it out. This also doesn't take into account that Jeanne used two of hers already, and Shirou (probably) hasn't used any yet, not including the 18(?) he got from the brainwashed red masters. I also don't know the significance of the name Amakusa Shirou Tokisada, if that's just a historical name or has meaning in the Fate franchise...but it sure doesn't sound like a friendly name. She has Command Spells for every Servant summoned in the war, but Shirou has been around for sixty years, he wasn't summoned in the war in Trifas, so she has no power over him. In case of a future lack of explanations from the anime, I'll just say this: Amakusa Shirou Tokisada is an apocryphal saint, well known in Japan. You can find more info about him online, here's just a sample from wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amakusa_Shir%C5%8D Jk9 said: And I don't really like this Ruler character because she can't handle the situation well and like didn't know what is her role from the start and too much thinking too. Is there a real rules for Holy Grail War from the start? Ruler is summoned if there is some big risk for the HGW to cause massive damage (bigger than what happened in Zero and stay Night), but she herself is not informed of what could cause. So she has to watch over the war and correct any anomalies. But she had a problem since her very summon, and that's what was bothering her from the beginning. The rest will be explained. Btw yes, there are rules in the HGW. Even if magi often try to break them, there are rules and all this mess is still better than what it was when there weren't mediators or rules of any kind Ah ok. So even though Shirou is a Ruler class, his command spells wouldn't apply to this particular war since he's considered a master and not a servant. Which also bolsters the reason as to why he brainwashed the other masters and took all of their command spells. Mod Edit: Modified quote of edited post. |
ShockedSep 30, 2017 9:38 PM
Jonesy974 said: Ah ok. So even though Shirou is a Ruler class, his command spells wouldn't apply to this particular war since he's considered a master and not a servant. Which also bolsters the reason as to why he brainwashed the other masters and took all of their command spells. Precisely. He can't be a mediator if he's a Master participating (plus his other condition), so he has lost that privilege |
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Mod Edit: Added spoiler tags; please hide plot details. |
ShockedSep 30, 2017 9:39 PM
| Personally, I'm going to recommend F/SN before Apocrypha. It's way more dependent on it than I initially thought. |
astroprogs said: Personally, I'm going to recommend F/SN before Apocrypha. It's way more dependent on it than I initially thought. Indeed. The point is that Apocrypha, while being an alternate timeline, is not that from the start. It's not like, I don't know, Gundam, where there are completely different universes: it's a split timeline that shares a lot of backstory elements and proper history with F/SN and requires knowing those to understand why it's different. It's definetly not a good start point for the Fate franchise, not even for anime only |
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wilstreak said: As FGO Player, i find this episode is utterly stupid. Jeanne as always is not fit to be a ruler since she intervene too much and all his action always put black side to disadvantage. After siegfried now she decide to use her authority to kill Vlad. And somehow without Command Spell, all black side servant agree to kill their own leader. A bunch of plothole. Well you are wrong in basically everything and just proved to know close to nothing. Playing FGO is useless if you don't know the context in which certain Servants and characters are set (and ignore the fact that different contexts create different possibilities), and far more useless if you just use it a pretense to know everything. "Oh, I play FGO so I know more about Apocrypha than people who actually read and watch it". Please. Did you even watch the episode? That wasn't Vlad anymore, he was just a nameless vampire that was attacking both factions and just planned to unleash an undead hell on earth. Sure, that's not something a Ruler should be stopping. Sure, that's not something everyone involved in a Holy Grail War should be stopping. In Fate/Zero they fought together against Caster because he summoned a fucking lovecraftian people-eating horror in the river. You think a global vampire epidemic is less dangerous than that? Do you know anything of what you're talking about? I don't think so. And on the off chance that you're just a troll that want to piss people off and nothing more, then congratulations! Your acting like a pretentious prick that knows nothing on the matter really made you look like a pretentious prick that knows nothing on the matter! What a masterfully planned trolling, I'm very much defeated |
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Misunderstanding things even addressed in the episode itself and immediately calling plot holes instead of asking here if there was something that you missed sounds like declaring to know better. Also, saying "as a FGO player I find this episode (of another Fate with different events and therefore different choices and results of actions taken by the characters I barely know from FGO) utterly stupid" doesn't help. Even if it wasn't what you meant, there aren't many other ways to interpret such a sentence. wilstreak said: The Vampire is still part Vlad and part Darnic. What is wrong with that? Darnic is dead. The vampire is not a fusion between the two and it's not even in control of what he does. It's just a mad monster driven by obsession and instinct that Darnic implanted in him. Quoting from the episode itself, about Darnic taking over: It indeed is impossible. Still, I can turn him into a monster that endlessly seeks the Grail! My dream, my wish, has now been planted into the beast and it will continue eternally! wilstreak said: The show introduce Darnic to be somewhat brilliant and resourceful men. If he knew that he will in the future using that fusing method with Vlad, why don't he ask all his subject (who obey him) to cast Command Spell on their servant not too attack him when that moment come? The whole problem here is that Darnic didn't consider for his obsession to mix and being distorted by the vampiric instincts of the monster. At that point he only wanted to keep spreading his "family", make it continue living, and that wish was twisted into making more and more vampires. In the LN is more obvious and they shouldn't have cut that. It would've been just ten more seconds and would've helped a lot to understand: …Now then, return my Holy Grail. I must grant my clan’s dearest wish with that Greater Grail. Yes, in order to grant my longstanding desire, I must infinitely and inexhaustibly survive. I must increase my bloodline. I must gather talent, effort and a nurturing environment and give birth to those who will follow after me. So, give back the Greater Grail… give it back, give it back, give it back, give it baaaaaaaaaaaack!! It is also explained further —That shout had Darnic’s selfish dream and his instincts as a vampire mixed together into it. He had thrown away all of his humanity not for the sake of reaching the Root, but rather for the preceding step—to increase one’s clan. He had to increase his bloodline—for the sake of his clan. He had to become stronger—for the sake of his clan. The wish he would ask of the Greater Grail was to propagate himself, augment himself and increase himself. The man who had confused his love for his clan and his own deep-rooted and delusional convictions refused to understand how destructive his dream was. Even if briefly, tho, the episode did address the situation. Chiron said right away: If he gains the Grail, he'll do as a vampire would and use it to turn even more people into is kin. This is too dangerous. [...] Worst case, their scouge would engulf the world. Not even we could stop them then. Darnic also didn't plan to actually fusing with Vlad, it just happened to be the best choice for him at that point (and yes, it was a terrible gamble, but magi in the Nasuverse usually don't care about anything if there is even a remote chance to gain the Grail). wilstreak said: As a Ruler Jeanne shouldn't interfere that much, moreover Vlad is currently on Semiramis fortress. She doesn't know the entire capability and characteristics of Vlad but he still think it is dangerous? As a Ruler, Jeanne knows exactly what Vlad is capable of. One of the Ruler-class skills is being able to instantly identify any Servant's True Name (aside from specific Noble Phantasms that can hide it), stats, abilities and weaknesses. That's why she recognized Siegfried, Atalanta, Karna, Spartacus and Shirou just by meeting them. wilstreak said: What's the point of having a Noble Phantasm when if you use it, the referee gonna ban you? Why the grail even bother letting him have a NP that is a direct violence of the grail's wish (or whatever it is that should be protected by Ruler). Noble Phantasms are materializations of legends about the specific Heroic Spirits and come with the summoning. Class, Master and other factors can influence them, seal them or change them, but the Grail iself can't do much about it, it only summons the Servants. And besides, it all comes down to how they are used. Vlad hated that Noble Phantasm so he would've never used it. Even if he did, he would've probably just killed himself after Darnic (that's why Darnic ordered him to keep living with a Command Spell). Also, even by using it he wouldn't turn into that kind of undead-spreading abomination, that was mostly Darnic's fault. wilstreak said: And lastly, I'm sorry if my earlier comment comes off as a little bit pretentious. After watching the episode, i feel annoyed by how the plot unfold. Also, i use the FGO reference to show that i am not a Fate-universe hater, not to suggest that I am an expert on Nasuverse. It's ok, really. But again, you could've just asked. Not only me, but other users are in these threads to help newcomers and people unfamiliar with the source understand better what happens. There is no shame in asking and nothing bad can come out of a pacific discussion. It's just that there are so many haters, trolls and shitposters that immediately saying "Yo this is stupid and I say it as a FGO player" really sounds pretentious and annoying, and it just broke me. So, if you get it now, it's fine, I'm also sorry for exploding like that but I've been reading comments like yours (but intentionally written like that and with no actual interest in knowing) for like three months already. |
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| I wonder why they seek for the Grail if in the original series it was confirmed that it doesn't grant the wish? upd: i want to see Ishtar, why they still not made an anime about this spinoff. |
SilentNox said: I wonder why they seek for the Grail if in the original series it was confirmed that it doesn't grant the wish? This takes place at the same time that Fate/Zero would. This is an alternative timeline and whatever happened in FZ and FSN is pretty much irrelevant. |
| Dracula went crazy, lame... Shirou is a ruler...and a pain...don't like him. |
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| Also, still cant get why they added Shakespeare to the roster, he did nothing atm and i wish they give him more screen time to finally tell us what abilities does he have and how he can be useful. |
SilentNox said: He made Fran lose it completely allowing Shirou to escape.Also, still cant get why they added Shakespeare to the roster, he did nothing atm and i wish they give him more screen time to finally tell us what abilities does he have and how he can be useful. |
Stark700 said: THIS IS AN ANIME ONLY DISCUSSION POST. DO NOT DISCUSS THE MANGA BEYOND THIS EPISODE. ---------------------------------------- Welp, the first half of this episode got pretty intense. That brutal bite and vampiric transformation... To my surprise, they actually didn't censor the violence. It got the point across but Jesus Christ, this look...  Glad to see Ruler taking on her role well this episode. Kinda nice to see Archer and Chiron working together. Agree but😂😂😂 Chiron is Archer you are talking about Achilles(rider) |
@TheHeckle ..... |
ssjokg said: SilentNox said: He made Fran lose it completely allowing Shirou to escape.Also, still cant get why they added Shakespeare to the roster, he did nothing atm and i wish they give him more screen time to finally tell us what abilities does he have and how he can be useful. Not like Shirou was going to lose anyway, he seem to be powerful enough to fight servants on equal terms. |
SilentNox said: Actually no he isnt.ssjokg said: He made Fran lose it completely allowing Shirou to escape. Not like Shirou was going to lose anyway, he seem to be powerful enough to fight servants on equal terms. He MAY have had a chance against Fran but as you saw, Fran was able to fight and almost kill Mordred who is WAY above Shirou. |
| These umpteenth twist, make it even more tangled and interesting watching this anime series. However, it is a pity that I have never seen in the field the masters of the red faction. Kotomine vs. Giovanna, wow! |
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| Great episode!! The fight scenes were good, but I feel that UBW and Zero was much better. THat's Ufotable for you though. Dracula went batshit insane. I wonder why Vlad didn't want to become Dracula anymore? Is it because it tainted his name back then?? |
SomaHeir said: Yes pretty much.I wonder why Vlad didn't want to become Dracula anymore? Is it because it tainted his name back then?? maxcharactersbs |
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