New
Nov 3, 2016 5:36 PM
#251
LoNNoL said: Why do you think they think they can? why cant you consider the posibilityt that they just express their opinion, or just raising awareness? Because people write on blogs "THIS IS UNACCEPTABLE. IT MUST STOP!! LET'S PUT AN END TO OBJECTIFYING WOMEN!!" They're delusional. lol so are you implying that express opinion is stupid in general? It's more like "What the hell did you expect?" ]what about Grisaia no Kajitsu? The source is a heavy psychological story but the adaption is a fanservice butcher? how can someone know without watching it first? From what I understand, the source is a dating game.....if you add 2+2, you should get what "dating game" that may entail: lots of girls=probably fanservice. |
Nov 3, 2016 5:50 PM
#252
So why are there so many SJWs in the anime community? I have a theory, but it's just that, so take it with a pinch of salt. Anime fans are generally a bit unique. They're not usually the most popular kids and are generally attracted to things that are a bit different, special or weird. So, then comes along the SJWs, the authoritarian left, to tell gamers or anime fans what they can and cannot play, can and cannot watch. But most importantly, they attempt to SHAME those who partake in those activities. They tell them they are sexist or misogynist Almost no one likes being told that they are a bad person, or a sexist piece of crap simply for playing a game or watching an anime, and this is even more true of anime fans, who are naturally a little weird and rebellious to authority. It is only natural that the anime community would react aggressively to people not only trying to tell them what they can and cannot do, but also trying to shame them for it. It doesn't help that SJWs are notoriously bad at logic, being unable to back up their arguments well. So you have a bunch of neckbeards and non-shavers, already being a bit questioning of authority, that like arguing online about bullshit all the time, suddenly being told what they can and cannot do, without proper argumentation, and then being shamed for it? Of course the anime community is full of anti-SJWs! Anime has always been full or weird questionable shit, that's exactly why we like it, of course we're not gonna stop watching it because some moron wants to control us, or wants to shame us, or tell me that I hate women. SJWs and what they want is directly in confrontation with the gamer and anime community, it's only natural that the anime community is full of anti-SJWs. |
OrevatafNov 3, 2016 5:53 PM
Nov 3, 2016 5:57 PM
#253
Rarusu_ said: I wonder why there even would be more radically left-leaning people around here to begin with, considering how anime and manga rarely follows their "enlighted" analysis. Fabrunette said: ah.. if you step inside the world of Tumblr ho boy There's a whole lotta Feminazi's & SJW's there dear lord I'm all for equality but this is too much why can't we just love each other?? also, the hate against Cishets, why? The word is extremely weirdass and dumb :/ The sane comment is ignored. Well said, I'm also sick of all gender war. It's been going on for like a decade now (as long as I've been on forums and such). It's getting pretty old now. Idk, I somehow missed this but yes, I agree, a lot of bloggers on tumblr are really awful about this kind of stuff. I see it way too much. But WHY tumblr specifically......I'm not really sure. Know what I use tumblr for? Anime episode blogging, shipping, and art And I will NOT blog about anime I hate or do not enjoy watching. I will not blog about personal problems either The internet should not be treated as a bloody DIARY |
Nov 3, 2016 6:00 PM
#254
mahoganycow said: I realize I'm supposed to shitpost, but I can't resist actually answering. 1) Many anime fans are disgruntled 14-year-old boys (or 20-something-year-old dudes who, in terms of emotional intelligence, might as well be disgruntled 14-year-old boys) undergoing that whole "THE WORLD IS AN EVIL AND CRUEL PLACE AND EVERYONE IS OUT TO GET ME" phase that disgruntled people of a certain age tend to go through. These people often have a victim complex and have difficulty interacting with other human beings in a meaningful way, and often react by convincing themselves that they've been unjustly ignored by the sex they're attracted to and unjustly held down by others (their parents, society at large, etc) rather than just admitting that they have some issues that they need to work through. They may or may not have legitimate problems with their life, but either way, the end result is that they lash out at others whom they perceive as enemies, which, again, is likely to include vocal members of the opposite sex, people promoting sunshine and equality, etc. Basically, "it's everyone's fault except for my own." (side note: I also happen to think this is a large part of why shows that preach Edgelord Gospel bullshit about how "the world is 2 fukin cruel and u need 2 be hardened and cynical or someone is gonna beat ur ass and chop ur arms and legs off" like Akame ga Kill, The Future Diary, etc. are popular: The incredibly naive worldview presented is precisely that of an angry teenager). 2) Many anime fans LOVE lazy buzzwords, and "SJW" quickly became one of the more popular lazy buzzwords of the 21st century. This phrase is literally used as a catch-all for "person who advocates any ideology that I disagree with." It is almost entirely meaningless. 3) Many anime fans are just plain cliquey, petty, and combative, even when the subject is purely within the confines of anime. Oh, you don't like this show? YOU MIGHT AS WELL JUST BLOW YOUR OWN BRAINS OUT WITH A CHARGE OF DOUBLE-OUGHT BUCKSHOT YOU DUMB MOTHERFUCKER. Oh, you're a Tokyo Ghoul fan? HAHAHA FUCKING STUPID CUCK ASSHOLE I HOPE YOU GET ASSAULTED BY SOMEONE WITH AIDS AND DIE WEEPING IN A DUMPSTER YOU DUMB SACK OF SHIT. That near-religious obsession with internalizing something and using it to fill the gaping holes in your soul to the point where it basically becomes your entire identity is unhealthy as shit and bleeds into everything you do. You don't want to identify as yourself, because you don't like anything about yourself. You want to be like others, you want to be in an imaginary gang, on an imaginary team, you want to fight as a proud defender of Team Ponies or Team Naruto or Team Elfen Lied. If one person will say something that awful to another because they disagree about a fucking TV show, imagine what they'll say when someone says something that they perceive as a direct affront to their view of the world as a proud defender of Team MRA or Team All Lives Matter or Team Young Republican or Team Young Libertarian and, yes, there plenty of regressive assholes on Team Democrat and Team Green, too. 4) The classic "anonymity brings out the worst in people etc etc etc" thing is pretty true. Most people won't even utter a word to someone they don't know IRL, much less a stream of hate speech and obscenities related to the other person's perceived feminism or social justice warfare, but the internet allows such interactions to become routine and, for the speaker, largely inconsequential. 5) Many anime fans hang out in vapid echo chamber cesspools like 4chan, Reddit, etc. which are full of people exactly like themselves, and they all feel a (vaguely homoerotic; is that irony?) sense of camaraderie when they see dozens of others just like themselves rallying to perpetuate the idea that sexism, racism, etc. are all okey-dokey and anyone who speaks out against them is just a big dumb meanie coming to step on the fun. "Hahaha good job bro, le epic, you told that feminist bitch to suck dick xDDDD." "Haha good job bro, these dumb SJWs are fucking cancer xDDDD." When the entire world is changing around you and progressing towards a state that, for whatever reason, you don't want to be in, it feels good to know that you're not alone. It feels good to get a pat on the back from someone who saw value in something you did, so you'll probably do it again. It goes back to a previous point a little bit: People think to themselves, "I am on a Team. We are Proud Defenders of what's right. These SJWs are Attacking Me and My Buddies. This is our Epic Last Stand against the Free Speech Police who are Destroying the World as We Know It. My Life is a Fucking Light Novel." Ironically, they are the people who have built themselves up as though they were warriors. The rest of the world just thinks they're simplistic pricks and is pointing that out. The "war" is in their heads. The aforementioned boards are a microcosm of real life, in which many of the same people are likely sitting around at a bar or in a basement somewhere bitching about how all these darn stuck-up WOMEN won't SLEEP WITH THEM EVEN THOUGH THEY'RE PERFECTLY NICE GUYS, all these darn MINORITIES have JOBS, and all these darn PEOPLE WHO BELIEVE IN CIVILITY AND CARE ABOUT OTHER PEOPLE HOW FUCKING DUMB IS THAT WHAT A BUNCH OF PUSSIES are ruining all of the good old-fashioned racism, sexism, and homophobia by spreading the confounded idea that those things aren't acceptable in a modern society. I won't even get into the extensive irony of how the entire "mannnnn everything is too politically correct, fucking SJWs" crowd is ludicrously thin-skinned and quick to cry about damn near anything. 6) Many anime fans think that anime exists in a vacuum, and don't actually realize that art is created by human beings and the content of art reflects the thought processes of the human beings who created it. "The show isn't racist, it's just that there is a ton of unnecessary racism within the world of the show, you dumb SJW!" Right, but you didn't peel back a window to another dimension and stumble into the world of the show. The world of the show is not a naturally occurring phenomenon. Someone made it, and if it contains racism, sexism, homophobia, etc. it means that someone intentionally inserted that ideology into it for some specific purpose. I'm sorry, but how fucking dumb you have to be to not understand this, I truly cannot explain. It is therefore perfectly valid to call a show racist, sexist, etc. if you can support your opinion, yet you will undoubtedly face cries of "SJW! Feminazi!" and so on from people who either don't understand extremely basic principles of art or are intellectually dishonest enough to ignore the existence of those principles when it suits their purpose. On the other side of this point is the ever-popular "it's okay that that stuff is there because it's just a TV show and nobody is really getting hurt!" Right, but TV shows and movies and whatnot are an unavoidable part of culture which millions of people will see, and which can undoubtedly influence the real world. If what was on a TV screen or in a drawing or in writing couldn't have an effect on the person seeing it, the entire concept of art and written expression--not to mention more sinister and practically applied concepts like propaganda and black PR--would be null and void and nonexistent in the first place. There is therefore validity in calling out media which perpetuates shitty ideas. 7) Many anime fans loathe intellectualism and analysis regardless of what the result of that analysis is. Even now, I can hear them crying in the distance: "Mannnnnn, [insert name of show] is just a show, ur reading too much into it!" They would equally hate an analysis from a feminist perspective, an analysis from an LGBT perspective, an analysis from a historical perspective, an analysis of characterization, an argument about a show's thematic underpinnings--they just plain hate people who apply thought to something that they'd rather view as thoughtless, regardless of the content of that thought. 8) To some degree, anime fans just represent a small slice of a larger population. Many people in general are "anti-feminist, anti-SJW," so you're going to get plenty who just happen to be anime fans as well! Sorry to generalize with the "anime fans" label; no, I am not suggesting that we're all assholes. Yet that there are many among us, I have no doubt. Today I learned I can count to eight. Yay! So in short. Things are the way they are due to the laws of physics and the prior configuration of the universe. |
Nov 3, 2016 6:01 PM
#255
Chiibi said: LoNNoL said: Why do you think they think they can? why cant you consider the posibilityt that they just express their opinion, or just raising awareness? Because people write on blogs "THIS IS UNACCEPTABLE. IT MUST STOP!! LET'S PUT AN END TO OBJECTIFYING WOMEN!!" They're delusional. lol What if that's just an extreme way of raising awareness? so are you implying that express opinion is stupid in general? It's more like "What the hell did you expect?" elaborate please. so speaking in general is pointless and stupid? ]what about Grisaia no Kajitsu? The source is a heavy psychological story but the adaption is a fanservice butcher? how can someone know without watching it first? From what I understand, the source is a dating game.....if you add 2+2, you should get what "dating game" that may entail: lots of girls=probably fanservice.[/quote]Did you read the VN? This is an example from me(like Keijo from you) The heavy psychological exploration is what people like Adaption is focus on fanservice can't people complain about their fav series getting butcher? And i'll raise this question again Just because there is fanservice that doesn't mean it doesnt have other aspect that they like right? They can watch and enjoy what they like and talk about what they don't like. why is that stupid? |
Nov 3, 2016 6:02 PM
#256
Thing I hate about reverse sjws is how they complain about sjws ALL THE TIME. They complain about feminists and sjws as much as sjws complain about sexism, racism etc. I don't even live in shitty America or Europe yet I always have to hear about this. There is hypocrisy too because reverse sjws promote social justice for majority groups like white guys and like how feminists blame everything on the patriarchy they blame everything on Jewish and liberal conspiracy. Also like how feminists criticize shows for being sexist over minute things there are reverse sjws criticizing any show where there is black people or other non white people as being liberal propaganda and automatically bad. I've met plenty people on Mal who haven't even seen Steven Universe and say it's bad because blah blah blah sjw, blah, blah , blah, blah tumblr. Like what the fuck does tumblr and sjw have to do with anything? Talk about the characters, story and stuff. Then you have reverse sjws calling interracial movies based on TRUE EVENTS liberal propaganda and they shouldn't exist and other kind of BS. Then there are weeb reverse sjw hypocrites who claim anime is only good to watch because it's anti liberal yet anime has two genres for gay characters (yaio and yuri), features a lot of dark skinned characters heck you have Choji randomly marrying a black girl ninja , there is the whole girl power thing in anime too and there are fujobait anime for female anime fans. |
Nov 3, 2016 6:04 PM
#257
Rarusu_ said: On a side note, but related. I also remeber how Sailor Moon was seen as a "Feminist" show when I was little, because oh my God there was a female heroine. If they would show it nowadays, however, I'm sure the reactions would be negative. SM would probably be seen as promoting body-shaming or some other shit. They would probably go all ethnocentric and complain about how Tuxedo mask was like 19 and Usagi was like 14. |
Nov 3, 2016 6:09 PM
#258
WisestOne said: I wish I got here sooner, I dont want to look through 254 replies :( If this thread had 254 replies when I saw it I wouldn't have jumped in. I just got tempted because there were only 31. Rarusu_ said: I wonder why there even would be more radically left-leaning people around here to begin with, considering how anime and manga rarely follows their "enlighted" analysis. You're neglecting the fact that "left-leaning" is basically just a convenient label that is thrown around rather freely and is used to describe a whole bunch of different opinions on issues (and different weights on those issues). To be honest though far as I can tell, geeky types tend to be low on political engagement in general, and anti-establishment when they do. Sometimes they get on board with liberals, sometimes conservatives. It depends on the political winds of the day. And whether they get on board at all. |
Avatar character is Gabriel from Gabriel DropOut. |
Nov 3, 2016 6:27 PM
#259
dakotasapphire said: They're just anti-men. They're anti-family. They're anti-natural. That's fine if they want to fk women and not have children. It's their life. Please, though, don't push it on others. Feminist = tomboy lez = against nature. I know the quality of arguments is going down on MAL these last monthes but dear lord that's painful to read. I literally can't understand the logical process that turns "feminists" into "they're all lez" right now, and we all know the nature argument is complete shit and opinions disguised as facts, so I'm just going to assume you're an old woman yelling at clouds. To help you stay on topic, we were talking about feminists, not your homophobia. |
DeathkoNov 3, 2016 6:33 PM
Prophetess of the Golden Era |
Nov 3, 2016 6:43 PM
#260
It's mal that feels predominantly right leaning, though it's the kind of moderate right instead of the borderline fascist insanity you might see elsewhere like the anuses of reddit or 4chan. Anti-whatevers are always a pain though. Also anime fans as a whole are very diverse so one can't really say that any one political perspective is going to dominate |
Aure0linNov 3, 2016 6:46 PM
"I like young-girl sexual creations, Lolicon is just one hobby of my many hobbies," he says. I ask what his wife, standing nearby, thinks of his "hobby". "She probably thinks no problem," he replies. "Because she loves young boys sexually interacting with each other." |
Nov 3, 2016 6:51 PM
#261
Hi this is a big thread wow it's always the same old shit of people getting offended over people getting offended I'm gonna come right out and say it If you're a feminist; good for you. I'm proud of you, actively trying to get fair representation in politics, society and economics. Japanese animations are not harmful at all, this generation if any should know that best. If you're busy advocating for online social justice you're under a false flag. And you anti-sjw's, you people who have fallen for this trap and constantly talk about these people non-stop on the forums, YOU add to the problem. You feed into these people and you give them a reason to post, a reason to continue on, because of YOU. These people aren't advocating for anything they just know how to upset you. Now I know there are some people who constantly avoid fanservice like me, and some people who actually feel that there are negative effects and are sensitive about how women are displayed. You are not the people who are writing controversial blog posts or MAL posts to garner attention; you are people who are out there making a difference for what you think is right. Now how many more years are you people going to be talking about this until you realize it? The community isn't SJWs against Anti-SJWs it's Anti-SJW's being dependent on mostly uninformed opinions because you guys feel like you need a common enemy. |
Nov 3, 2016 6:56 PM
#262
Nov 3, 2016 7:10 PM
#263
Nov 3, 2016 7:22 PM
#264
Then they need to be less idiotic about it.....and I don't know what good "raising awareness" would do in the first place. elaborate please. Come on, I shouldn't have to. A feminist complaining about fanservice they saw in a show created SPECIFICALLY for men who like to see sexy girl characters is the same as a religious nut who goes to watch a Harry Potter film and complains there's "too much magic so it's evil". I mean, does that not sound retarded to you? so speaking in general is pointless and stupid? You're not paying attention to anything I said. can't people complain about their fav series getting butcher? Yes, they can if they are the target audience. Just because there is fanservice that doesn't mean it doesnt have other aspect that they like right? That's not the impression I get from SWJs and other people complaining though. Anything that has fanservice="garbage objectifying us women so we are victims of misogyny". Sure, but you wouldn't really put SJWs among the right-wingers. LOL I've NEVER met an SWJ who wasn't a liberal. Another reason why I don't get along with them. |
ChiibiNov 3, 2016 7:26 PM
Nov 3, 2016 7:27 PM
#265
I don't consider myself "anti" anything. I just don't want to be grouped together with regressive movements. I view people equally regardless of gender, race, sexuality, etc., so I don't have anything to prove by joining some club. The only time I have anything to say on the matter is when someone tries to force the mentality that just because I'm not in their group, that means I'm with the "enemy". Or when features in Japanese games are removed for no reason. I'm not a complicated person, tbh. |
Nov 3, 2016 7:38 PM
#266
I'm not anti-feminist per say, but I'm anti-censorship of ANY kind. Be it hurtful to a group of people, offensive to everyone, whatever, I won't tolerate censorship because free thinking and expression is the most important thing for humans imho. As for the anime community as a whole, I like to think that despite our general cynicism (I'm probably less more? cynical than most though) we still tend to be pretty open minded about sexuality and violence and other offensive things, which is why we get drawn to Japanese animation where this kind of material can be created without intense backlash from feminists and SJWs stifling the creators in any way. It's frustrating that in the West many games and other work from Japan gets censored on its way over here because of these groups of people, you'd think we'd be beyond that kind of thing in the modern age >_> |
MonogatariLSDNov 3, 2016 7:41 PM
Nov 3, 2016 7:43 PM
#267
drgy55 said: I'm not anti-feminist per say, but I'm anti-censorship of ANY kind. Be it hurtful to a group of people, offensive to everyone, whatever, I won't tolerate censorship because free thinking and expression is the most important thing for humans imho. As for the anime community as a whole, I like to think that despite our general cynicism (I'm probably less cynical than most though) we still tend to be pretty open minded about sexuality and violence and other offensive things, which is why we get drawn to Japanese animation where this kind of material can be created without intense backlash from feminists and SJWs stifling the creators' in any way. It's frustrating that in the West many games and other work from Japan gets censored on its way over here because of these groups of people, you'd think we'd be beyond that kind of thing in the modern age >_> What really gets me is the fact that anyone that disagrees with them is branded as a racist, sexist, homophobe, etc., and that's completely unfair, and harmful. You get dozens of articles talking about those "sexist anime fans" or "racist gamers" whenever there's some kind of backlash due to censorship, and it's just so... childish. I feel like for the most part, as you said, we as a community are fairly open to different ways of thinking, but it's impossible to have any sort of discussion because it immedietaly makes you worse than Hitler. The fact that I expect my $60 game to be a complete package makes me a terrible person who hates women just shuts up any kind of opposition that could actually gain traction. The mainstream media is too afraid of losing money to say anything, so it all just kinda happens. |
Nov 3, 2016 7:47 PM
#268
S-Shiro said: Or when features in Japanese games are removed for no reason. I'm not a complicated person, tbh. As someone who's seen people blather and flame endlessly about localization decisions, I know to cue people arguing endlessly about what constitutes "no reason". Alyssa said: Hi this is a big thread wow it's always the same old shit of people getting offended over people getting offended I'm gonna come right out and say it If you're a feminist; good for you. I'm proud of you, actively trying to get fair representation in politics, society and economics. Japanese animations are not harmful at all, this generation if any should know that best. If you're busy advocating for online social justice you're under a false flag. And you anti-sjw's, you people who have fallen for this trap and constantly talk about these people non-stop on the forums, YOU add to the problem. You feed into these people and you give them a reason to post, a reason to continue on, because of YOU. These people aren't advocating for anything they just know how to upset you. THANK YOU |
Avatar character is Gabriel from Gabriel DropOut. |
Nov 3, 2016 7:52 PM
#269
S-Shiro said: drgy55 said: I'm not anti-feminist per say, but I'm anti-censorship of ANY kind. Be it hurtful to a group of people, offensive to everyone, whatever, I won't tolerate censorship because free thinking and expression is the most important thing for humans imho. As for the anime community as a whole, I like to think that despite our general cynicism (I'm probably less cynical than most though) we still tend to be pretty open minded about sexuality and violence and other offensive things, which is why we get drawn to Japanese animation where this kind of material can be created without intense backlash from feminists and SJWs stifling the creators' in any way. It's frustrating that in the West many games and other work from Japan gets censored on its way over here because of these groups of people, you'd think we'd be beyond that kind of thing in the modern age >_> What really gets me is the fact that anyone that disagrees with them is branded as a racist, sexist, homophobe, etc., and that's completely unfair, and harmful. You get dozens of articles talking about those "sexist anime fans" or "racist gamers" whenever there's some kind of backlash due to censorship, and it's just so... childish. I feel like for the most part, as you said, we as a community are fairly open to different ways of thinking, but it's impossible to have any sort of discussion because it immedietaly makes you worse than Hitler. The fact that I expect my $60 game to be a complete package makes me a terrible person who hates women just shuts up any kind of opposition that could actually gain traction. The mainstream media is too afraid of losing money to say anything, so it all just kinda happens. Well, it's hard to argue not just because you're called a sexist or misogynist but because the issues themselves sometimes seem so small. Stupid example, when Star Ocean 5 was localized, they changed Miki's panties from being actual highschool girl panties (ie lingerie) to something that looked like a diaper or something. So then when people fight back because of the principle of the whole thing it's like "wow, look at these perverted idiots fighting over a change in an animated girl's panties." But like I said, it's the principle of the thing. Why is this being censored in the first place? Because some other group who are busy watching yaoi shit (idk lol) decided it was indecent and offensive to them. The change itself isn't that important, but the fact that this vocal minority is going to such lengths themselves over such small matters and that these big companies LISTEN to them is just crazy! |
Nov 3, 2016 7:54 PM
#270
GlennMagusHarvey said: No "good" reason, anyway.S-Shiro said: Or when features in Japanese games are removed for no reason. I'm not a complicated person, tbh. As someone who's seen people blather and flame endlessly about localization decisions, I know to cue people arguing endlessly about what constitutes "no reason". Alyssa said: Hi this is a big thread wow it's always the same old shit of people getting offended over people getting offended I'm gonna come right out and say it If you're a feminist; good for you. I'm proud of you, actively trying to get fair representation in politics, society and economics. Japanese animations are not harmful at all, this generation if any should know that best. If you're busy advocating for online social justice you're under a false flag. And you anti-sjw's, you people who have fallen for this trap and constantly talk about these people non-stop on the forums, YOU add to the problem. You feed into these people and you give them a reason to post, a reason to continue on, because of YOU. These people aren't advocating for anything they just know how to upset you. THANK YOU And I disagree with that quote, also. Social Justice Warriors and Feminists aren't advocating for things for the sake of getting a rise out of anti-SJWs. They have actual sway in politics and society as a whole. That's why anti-SJWs are so vocal. You can lose your job for being branded as a sexist or a racist. That's scary. That's worth arguing about. |
Nov 3, 2016 7:56 PM
#271
@drgy55 Talk with your wallet. Snowballing things by getting into fights with feminists doesn't solve anything. It feeds them and makes them stronger. If you don't like a change organize a boycott and only talk to the companies about your grievances. |
Nov 3, 2016 7:57 PM
#272
drgy55 said: The "why does it matter" argument always bothers me. "It's such a small feature. Who cares?"S-Shiro said: drgy55 said: I'm not anti-feminist per say, but I'm anti-censorship of ANY kind. Be it hurtful to a group of people, offensive to everyone, whatever, I won't tolerate censorship because free thinking and expression is the most important thing for humans imho. As for the anime community as a whole, I like to think that despite our general cynicism (I'm probably less cynical than most though) we still tend to be pretty open minded about sexuality and violence and other offensive things, which is why we get drawn to Japanese animation where this kind of material can be created without intense backlash from feminists and SJWs stifling the creators' in any way. It's frustrating that in the West many games and other work from Japan gets censored on its way over here because of these groups of people, you'd think we'd be beyond that kind of thing in the modern age >_> What really gets me is the fact that anyone that disagrees with them is branded as a racist, sexist, homophobe, etc., and that's completely unfair, and harmful. You get dozens of articles talking about those "sexist anime fans" or "racist gamers" whenever there's some kind of backlash due to censorship, and it's just so... childish. I feel like for the most part, as you said, we as a community are fairly open to different ways of thinking, but it's impossible to have any sort of discussion because it immedietaly makes you worse than Hitler. The fact that I expect my $60 game to be a complete package makes me a terrible person who hates women just shuts up any kind of opposition that could actually gain traction. The mainstream media is too afraid of losing money to say anything, so it all just kinda happens. Well, it's hard to argue not just because you're called a sexist or misogynist but because the issues themselves sometimes seem so small. Stupid example, when Star Ocean 5 was localized, they changed Miki's panties from being actual highschool girl panties (ie lingerie) to something that looked like a diaper or something. So then when people fight back because of the principle of the whole thing it's like "wow, look at these perverted idiots fighting over a change in an animated girl's panties." But like I said, it's the principle of the thing. Why is this being censored in the first place? Because some other group who are busy watching yaoi shit (idk lol) decided it was indecent and offensive to them. The change itself isn't that important, but the fact that this vocal minority is going to such lengths themselves over such small matters and that these big companies LISTEN to them is just crazy! It really SHOULDN'T matter. Like, if it really didn't, no one would be crying about it to begin with. That's why I care. Because it's a huge double standard. I shouldn't care because it's not a big deal, but you should care because it's... still not a big deal...? What? |
Nov 3, 2016 7:59 PM
#273
Clebardman said: dakotasapphire said: They're just anti-men. They're anti-family. They're anti-natural. That's fine if they want to fk women and not have children. It's their life. Please, though, don't push it on others. Feminist = tomboy lez = against nature. I know the quality of arguments is going down on MAL these last monthes but dear lord that's painful to read. I literally can't understand the logical process that turns "feminists" into "they're all lez" right now, and we all know the nature argument is complete shit and opinions disguised as facts, so I'm just going to assume you're an old woman yelling at clouds. To help you stay on topic, we were talking about feminists, not your homophobia. I was making a joke and I forgot I wrote it out, really shouldn't of that was idiotic of me. I'm just saying they seem to be anti men. I'm a woman. I just don't like how they treat men at all. So I made fun. Forgive me. If they don't want to have babies like normal people, they can be that way. It's a free country. I just merely drew a conclusion that if they hate men they'll probably end up with women. It's a logical one. Because who wants to be alone? Natural meaning, not having a real maternal instinct. Natural meaning not trying to get along. If they are lesbian, then sure it'd be natural to be with women. If they're not then they're pushing the boundaries of natural. |
Nov 3, 2016 8:00 PM
#274
DrGeroCreation said: @drgy55 Talk with your wallet. Snowballing things by getting into fights with feminists doesn't solve anything. It feeds them and makes them stronger. If you don't like a change organize a boycott and only talk to the companies about your grievances. I 100% agree with you and I try not to get into fights with feminists or to label myself as anti-feminist or anything. Lately I've been importing straight from Japan, I won't buy censored games or shows period. |
Nov 3, 2016 8:05 PM
#275
S-Shiro said: Talk with your wallet and directly with the companies. Shit hitting the fan between gamergate and feminists is what allowed feminists to be able to caus things to be changed. If gamergate wasn't so aggressive with the threats and attacks the feminists would not have been able to have any sway or major voice with game companies.The "why does it matter" argument always bothers me. "It's such a small feature. Who cares?" It really SHOULDN'T matter. Like, if it really didn't, no one would be crying about it to begin with. That's why I care. Because it's a huge double standard. I shouldn't care because it's not a big deal, but you should care because it's... still not a big deal...? drgy55 said: Yeah that's the best thing to do.I 100% agree with you and I try not to get into fights with feminists or to label myself as anti-feminist or anything. Lately I've been importing straight from Japan, I won't buy censored games or shows period. |
DrGeroCreationNov 3, 2016 8:09 PM
Nov 3, 2016 8:06 PM
#276
GlennMagusHarvey said: S-Shiro said: Or when features in Japanese games are removed for no reason. I'm not a complicated person, tbh. As someone who's seen people blather and flame endlessly about localization decisions, I know to cue people arguing endlessly about what constitutes "no reason". Alyssa said: Hi this is a big thread wow it's always the same old shit of people getting offended over people getting offended I'm gonna come right out and say it If you're a feminist; good for you. I'm proud of you, actively trying to get fair representation in politics, society and economics. Japanese animations are not harmful at all, this generation if any should know that best. If you're busy advocating for online social justice you're under a false flag. And you anti-sjw's, you people who have fallen for this trap and constantly talk about these people non-stop on the forums, YOU add to the problem. You feed into these people and you give them a reason to post, a reason to continue on, because of YOU. These people aren't advocating for anything they just know how to upset you. THANK YOU That's absurd lol. No one would care if some group of people were just riling people up but not making any difference. We label those people as "trolls". Actual, tangible changes are made and media is censored because of groups that label themselves as SJWs. That's a problem. I would agree that arguing with those people is pointless, but I can't agree that they aren't advocating for anything or causing anything to change because that is simply not true. |
Nov 3, 2016 8:09 PM
#277
DrGeroCreation said: S-Shiro said: Talk with your wallet and directly with the companies. Shit hitting the fan between gamergate and feminists is what allowed feminists to be able to caus things to be changed. If gamergate wasn't so aggressive with the threats and attacks the feminists would not have been able to have any sway or major voice with game companies.The "why does it matter" argument always bothers me. "It's such a small feature. Who cares?" It really SHOULDN'T matter. Like, if it really didn't, no one would be crying about it to begin with. That's why I care. Because it's a huge double standard. I shouldn't care because it's not a big deal, but you should care because it's... still not a big deal...? I mean, that implies that I was somehow involved with threatening feminists during GG, and I didn't even hear about it until afterwards. Yes, voting with your wallet is the best thing you can do, but and you shouldn't harass people that disagree with you. But that doesn't mean I can't complain about it, tbh. It sucks that I have to miss out on things that I enjoy because game companies are scared to death of these groups. I'm not gonna go terrorize Anita about it, but I'm probably going to talk about how much it sucks, lol. |
Nov 3, 2016 8:19 PM
#278
I think I know why that is. Most anime is made for, and marketed to, otaku / nerdy guys. Nerdy guys, who usually have bad social skills, and not much success with the ladies. So they want to see attractive chicks in anime, because they don't get them in real life. So, there's the harem genre, and all sorts of fetishes and pandering, so every nerdy anime loving guy can have his dream girl waifu. That's fine, but some guys use this fantasy as a crutch. SJWs see trashy harem anime, etc, and get offended. Well, some are vulgar and embarrassing and pandering, there's sprinkles of pandering even in my favourite shows. But I put up with it, because the rest of the show is good (usually.) But it's for nerds to enjoy at home discreetly. It's not for feminist eyes. It airs late at night, when kids and normal people are asleep. I agree that SJWs shouldn't try to censor what they don't appreciate in the first place. Both SJWs and Anti-SJWs seem to be very disconnected with reality. They both have black-and-white views of the world and of their enemies. Here is a picture created by an Anti-SJW: The guy who made this, has set a false dichotomy: Real girls who are ugly and mean bitches, and cartoon girls who are cute and nice children. It's cherry-picked, there's so many different individual girls in both reality and in fiction. This guy needs to get his cherry picked, too... That's the problem. Many are virgins with rage. A lot of these guys get really bitter. They lash out at the feminists.. I dislike SJWs, but the backlash is worse, in my opinion. There's guys who go out of their way to be offensive on purpose. Guys spamming violent emails to feminists, etc... It's just stupid and antagonistic. I had a friend like that once, he was mean to everybody, and hated by everybody in turn. He was really into this stuff, too. They're usually young men, growing and looking for an identity. Some find the PUA community, MGTOW community, 4chan/8chan /pol/, Stormfront, far Alt-Right, etc. A shy young guy browses the Internet, and finds these communities, that give him a sense of identity and purpose and ideals. It's the same with shy young girls who find Tumblr, Feministing, etc. "Boys vs Girls". "8chan vs Tumblr". I'm a centrist who sees both groups as both smart and stupid. They're the extreme opposite of each other. Yet they mirror each other. If I was asked which side I'd pick... That's as bad as trying to vote for a politician (lol) They're both idiots. |
Nov 3, 2016 8:20 PM
#279
S-Shiro said: The whole gaming community was lumped together because of what some gamergate trolls did. Block anyone that harasses you. You can complain but it only matters if you directly complain to the companies and ignore the sjws. Gaming companies at the end of the day mainly care about money. Money talks bullshit walks.I mean, that implies that I was somehow involved with threatening feminists during GG, and I didn't even hear about it until afterwards. Yes, voting with your wallet is the best thing you can do, but and you shouldn't harass people that disagree with you. But that doesn't mean I can't complain about it, tbh. It sucks that I have to miss out on things that I enjoy because game companies are scared to death of these groups. I'm not gonna go terrorize Anita about it, but I'm probably going to talk about how much it sucks, lol. |
Nov 3, 2016 8:35 PM
#280
@martiooo You missed my point and now that I am reading it again after getting some sleep I think I missed yours as well. |
Nov 3, 2016 8:43 PM
#281
The same reason why there are many feminists and SJWs in this community. But the silent majority here won't speak and I can assure you they are tired of political correctness and authoritarian Marxism being shoved down their throats because they use anime to unwind and escape all of the politics that eat up the world today. |
Nov 3, 2016 8:46 PM
#282
DeplorableNico said: Since when? Feminism and sjws are generally considered cancer here and Cherrylover is like the only feminist on the forums.The same reason why there are many feminists and SJWs in this community. |
Nov 3, 2016 8:48 PM
#283
DrGeroCreation said: DeplorableNico said: Since when? Feminism and sjws are generally considered cancer here and Cherrylover is like the only feminist on the forums.The same reason why there are many feminists and SJWs in this community. There are a lot more than you may think. If anything, I feel like they are the vocal majority on AD. They only won't disclose because they don't want to be lumped in, however, I can tell by their diction upon criticism that they fit exactly what the Frankfurt School would be proud of. |
Nov 3, 2016 8:53 PM
#284
Both sides of the extremes are cancer and annoying as fuck. ''FEMINAZI SAYS SOMETHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!'' I usually sigh roll my eyes and avoid posting in the thread. ''Anime is misogyny'' I again roll my eyes and avoid posting in the thread. Also this was originally in AD, so why is this cancer of a thread in CD? |
Nov 3, 2016 8:55 PM
#285
DrGeroCreation said: Hoppy said: People who hate sjws send death threats and hack into accounts to shame certain people like what happened to the black woman from the new Ghostbusters movie.GlennMagusHarvey said: samtheb said: social justice warriors, political correctness and feminism is something that is ruining western societies, they are really cancerous anti-SJW crusaders, intentional offensiveness, and anti-feminism is also something that is ruining western societies, they are similarly really cancerous SJWs consist mostly of the perfect or near perfect well to do, stupid rich, and powerful, and in many cases they are examples of corporate and political tyranny that do as much damage or even worse than tyrants that aren't SJWs. not all of them only racist idiot, i am anti all of these things because they serve no purpose i don't hate those who are i just am against it |
Nov 3, 2016 8:55 PM
#286
S-Shiro said: No "good" reason, anyway. That merely shifts the terminology, of course. S-Shiro said: And I disagree with that quote, also. Social Justice Warriors and Feminists aren't advocating for things for the sake of getting a rise out of anti-SJWs. They have actual sway in politics and society as a whole. That's why anti-SJWs are so vocal. You can lose your job for being branded as a sexist or a racist. That's scary. That's worth arguing about. They're not doing it to "get a rise out of anti-SJWs". They're doing it for one or both of two reasons: * There actually is a certain amount of injustice in sexism and racism. * It's now seen as politically palatable to complain about sexism and racism. So for some of these people it's because they think they're doing the world a service, and for others it's because it's something for them to do. And here's the key thing, they're not the ones actually driving this change in attitudes in society anyway. As the world has gotten more connected people in general have been exposed to more perspectives on things so you get a wide variety of totally normal and even non-political people saying -- and agreeing with other people saying -- "hey, it makes sense that we should treat men and women with the same level of respect", and stuff like that. And frankly speaking the charges of sexism being widely a part of an entire form of media are quite different from the charges of a particular person being a jackass and grabbing the female office secretary in inappropriate places. The latter is a very specific problem; the former is people reflecting on the state of a thing and feeling that they want different experience from that media. The latter can be solved by removing the offending person and charging him with sexual assault. (No, "being a sexist" is not a crime in an of itself; the crime is when you are a douchebag about it and then do things that disrupt other people's lives as a result.) The former, on the other hand, you change by actually being the change you want to see -- by making games with female protagonists if that's what you're interested in, for example. Complaining about it doesn't really get anywhere. Maybe I haven't kept up with this whole "#gamergate" nonsense because I rarely bother with these articles and blogs and stuff. They all seem like a bunch of opinion-wanking to me that largely is of no consequence other than to rile up or anger people by directing their outrage at others or attracting outrage to themselves, depending on which "side" a particular reader is on. Because meanwhile, you really DO have a mainstreaming of videogames. You really DO have everyone from grandmas to toddlers getting into games. And there are some people who really do feel that there should be more games with female protagonists. And so on. And some people are going to complain. You're going to have the "moral panic" conservatives, you're going to have the people who complain about sexism, you're going to have the people who complain about all the "anime pedoshit that's polluting my Steam store", and so on. And to all of them, I say: The world is changing; deal with it. I mean, I dealt with it when the world of videogames moved on from the 2D platformers that I was enjoying back in the 1990s, and went on a date, a wedding, a honeymoon, and raising two kids to adolescence with first-person 3D. The "SJWs" can wank about whatever. The "anti-SJWs" can wank about whatever as well, including about said SJWs. And frankly speaking, they're both a waste of my time. Well, maybe at some point I'll contemplate one of their opinions and accidentally dig up some of their articles to read. Who knows. But for now the only thing they succeeded at with the #gamergate controversy is making everyone look like childish tantrum-throwers. People can complain endlessly about similar things in anime. And heck, in anime, as I pointed out in another post earlier, it's even more complicated, because you have a rather curious combination of female empowerment and female objectification, often at the exact same time. Incidentally this is also happening in other media. Some people like this, other people don't, and they often have a variety of different reasons why, even if they agree with each other on their preferred outcome. S-Shiro said: The "why does it matter" argument always bothers me. "It's such a small feature. Who cares?" It really SHOULDN'T matter. Like, if it really didn't, no one would be crying about it to begin with. I agree with this. You care so darn much about your anime nipples? Go ahead. Enjoy your damn anime nipples. If I don't like those anime nipples, I'm just not going to get them. If I care enough I'll enjoy a version without said anime nipples. Simple enough. It's just like how that quote goes -- "I don't like gay marriages, so I'm not going to get one." DeplorableNico said: tired of political correctness I don't like people telling me what terms I can or can't use, and that goes for both sides. If I speak politely and respectfully about something and then get flak for being "politically correct" that's also quite annoying. |
GlennMagusHarveyNov 3, 2016 8:59 PM
Avatar character is Gabriel from Gabriel DropOut. |
Nov 3, 2016 8:58 PM
#287
DeplorableNico said: LOL yeah right if they somehow are a majority they are an invisible silent majority considering how there is non stop hatred for sjws on mal. You can't go a day on Mal without JustAlex reporting on the evil of sjws.DrGeroCreation said: DeplorableNico said: The same reason why there are many feminists and SJWs in this community. There are a lot more than you may think. If anything, I feel like they are the vocal majority on AD. They only won't disclose because they don't want to be lumped in, however, I can tell by their diction upon criticism that they fit exactly what the Frankfurt School would be proud of. DeplorableNico said: People complain against political correctness ALL THE TIME on Mal. There is no silent majority against political correctness on Mal but a vocal majority against it. Funny how you mention politics when right wingers on Mal are always the ones that bring it up. Politics talk is always inserted into everything. Always talk about Trump, always talk about migrant crisis. You can't enjoy a movie or show (non anime) that doesn't have an all white cast before right wingers on Mal shout liberal propaganda and blah, blah, blah.But the silent majority here won't speak and I can assure you they are tired of political correctness and authoritarian Marxism being shoved down their throats because they use anime to unwind and escape all of the politics that eat up the world today. samtheb said: I didn't mention anything about racism in this post.DrGeroCreation said: People who hate sjws send death threats and hack into accounts to shame certain people like what happened to the black woman from the new Ghostbusters movie. not all of them only racist idiot, i am anti all of these things because they serve no purpose i don't hate those who are i just am against it |
Nov 3, 2016 9:04 PM
#288
oh gosh why did i get myself into another endless-argument-about-feminism-sexism-sjws-political-correctness-etc-etc-etc-in-geek-media-that-sucks-up-half-hours-one-after-another thread |
Avatar character is Gabriel from Gabriel DropOut. |
Nov 3, 2016 9:09 PM
#289
GlennMagusHarvey said: oh gosh why did i get myself into another endless-argument-about-feminism-sexism-sjws-political-correctness-etc-etc-etc-in-geek-media-that-sucks-up-half-hours-one-after-another thread Because you waste your time justifying your opinions instead of accepting that you'll accomplish practically nothing by trying to justify yourself being correct. Reconsider yourself. |
Nov 3, 2016 9:10 PM
#290
Rarusu_ said: On a side note, but related. I also remeber how Sailor Moon was seen as a "Feminist" show when I was little, because oh my God there was a female heroine. If they would show it nowadays, however, I'm sure the reactions would be negative. SM would probably be seen as promoting body-shaming or some other shit. they already did I remember a year or so ago there was a big fubar about how the resurrection of sailor moon is or would be damaging and the show is regressive and sexualizing of minors blah blah blah. SJW's are WORSE than puritans atleast they have religious nonsense reasons. DrGeroCreation said: I don't even live in shitty America or Europe yet I always have to hear about this. Depending where you exist might explain it. Because here in both American and Europe we have been stung by legitimized Soc justice. Its in our governments, schools and laws a lot of the time the laws they pass are bias or sexist towards men and they constantly push the image of toxic masculinity and males are all potential rapists even on younger and younger kids. The amount of times ive heard of school parents complaining because their kids come home from their new feminized lessons in tears because they're told inside them is inherent evil masculinity and how boys are punished and girls rewarded in class is too damn high. Anti soc justice might seem comical to you but here for a lot of us is serious business because of what they're actually doing. Its not just some tumblr users online why we push back. Its not even a new movement don't kid yourself they've been integrating into schools like a cult since the 90's. I got to personally experience one of their first trial runs of a soc justice sex ed lessons when I was in first school. Their fucked up ideology coming from teachers who we were raised to trust nearly ended with my suicide at age 11 so whilst I have a personal reason to hate soc justice I stand against it not for myself but to try to spread the truth and prevent other impressionable ignorant children from falling into their trap but from what ive seen of kids growing up on social justice its not helping at all. All I see is men growing up with inherent guilt inside them, girls growing up in fear of the men in their lives just because they were raised to see them all as predators. Soc just isn't just tumblr bullshit I could care less. It's a very real and insidious cult like movement. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/thinking-man/11747413/We-must-stop-indoctrinating-boys-in-feminist-ideology.html In November last year, The Times reported on a programme in London Schools in which two American women, one a former sex crime prosecutor, “re-programme teenage boys’ sexual manners so they are fit for a feminist world”. According to the report, they start the class by asserting that “misogyny is on the rise”, before going on to “describe real-life sex crimes that have happened to teenagers in this area with brutal accuracy”. The article concludes – approvingly -- that by the end of the session, the boys are “scarred for life”. poppyface said: It's mal that feels predominantly right leaning, though it's the kind of moderate right instead of the borderline fascist insanity you might see elsewhere like the anuses of reddit or 4chan Even thats only because all the centrals and classic liberals are being pushed further into a corner. The left is sliding into insanity having all of us that were left wing who are still sane needing to side with the more rational right now. Before I broke my guild complex social programming I was a social justice warrior/feminist too but even I wasn't as extreme as just the usual soc just is now. |
SpooksNov 3, 2016 9:21 PM
Nov 3, 2016 9:10 PM
#291
@DrGeroCreation I don't know where you spend most of your time on MAL, but I don't typically see an overwhelming majority of overly loud Anti-SJWs. I tend to see quite a few people on the opposite side, and they get quite angry themselves. Most threads on this matter that I see are pretty chill, also. I know that I'm usually pretty calm about the whole thing, for example, and I've had people jump down my throat and tell me I'm sexist just because I don't consider myself a feminist. You're not wrong about there being people that are very vocal about how they feel towards SJWs, but I think you're definitely overplaying it. That, or we spend time in different threads. @GlennMagusHarvey That was a long ass post, my dude. I'm gonna have to look at that tomorrow. I need to get to bed soon. |
Nov 3, 2016 9:11 PM
#292
DeplorableNico said: GlennMagusHarvey said: oh gosh why did i get myself into another endless-argument-about-feminism-sexism-sjws-political-correctness-etc-etc-etc-in-geek-media-that-sucks-up-half-hours-one-after-another thread Because you waste your time justifying your opinions instead of accepting that you'll accomplish practically nothing. Reconsider yourself. Not sure what you mean by "reconsider yourself", but you do have a point in that this thread is basically a giant waste of time that everyone who participates participates in only to vent their own opinions at other people. People who hate SJWs will still hate SJWS, people who don't still won't, and so on. S-Shiro said: That was a long ass post, my dude. I'm gonna have to look at that tomorrow. I need to get to bed soon. Sorry, haha. I just started writing, then kept on writing and writing and writing. |
Avatar character is Gabriel from Gabriel DropOut. |
Nov 3, 2016 9:13 PM
#293
@DrGeroCreation Their arguments are perfectly valid when it comes to preservation of culture. But I do love me some cultural arrogance to counter that just so it can be even more pertinent as to why Japan won't suck the UN's balls. |
Nov 3, 2016 9:16 PM
#294
nah i think its just here on MAL and 4chan MAL for example has a lot of vocal anti-SJWs and anti-Feminists |
Nov 3, 2016 9:16 PM
#295
GlennMagusHarvey said: Not sure what you mean by "reconsider yourself", but you do have a point in that this thread is basically a giant waste of time that everyone who participates participates in only to vent their own opinions at other people. People who hate SJWs will still hate SJWS, people who don't still won't, and so on. Some opinions have more value than others. The ones that are of less value are a laughing matter at best. Your dramatization of this all isn't necessary. Instead, you look foolish justifying your constant desire to make your voice heard. |
Nov 3, 2016 9:19 PM
#296
if you visit the right site, you won't run into as much crazy. note how i say as much. because fandoms will always have kooks. which is why i steer clear of them. |
removed-userNov 3, 2016 9:23 PM
Nov 3, 2016 9:21 PM
#298
@S-Shiro I spend it all over Mal. Well maybe you should check out Current Events and Casual Discussion more. There are a lot of users who are anti sjws and talk about how they hate sjws. If you were as active on the main forums as me you would see them. @Spooks I have marathoned SJW cringe videos on Youtube and I know how extreme it is but what is happening is that there is a radical right wing movement growing on the Internet because of it. I see these both as problematic. Well if you guys are so serious about it you should actually try to do major stuff irl like majorly protesting etc. instead of just complaining about them on Mal. @DeplorableNico Last time I checked the VAST MAJORITY of people on Mal were pissed off that the UN was going after Japan and the Japanese basically told the UN to eff off anyway. |
Nov 3, 2016 9:22 PM
#299
GlennMagusHarvey said: DeplorableNico said: GlennMagusHarvey said: oh gosh why did i get myself into another endless-argument-about-feminism-sexism-sjws-political-correctness-etc-etc-etc-in-geek-media-that-sucks-up-half-hours-one-after-another thread Because you waste your time justifying your opinions instead of accepting that you'll accomplish practically nothing. Reconsider yourself. Not sure what you mean by "reconsider yourself", but you do have a point in that this thread is basically a giant waste of time that everyone who participates participates in only to vent their own opinions at other people. People who hate SJWs will still hate SJWS, people who don't still won't, and so on. S-Shiro said: That was a long ass post, my dude. I'm gonna have to look at that tomorrow. I need to get to bed soon. Sorry, haha. I just started writing, then kept on writing and writing and writing. No problem. Feel free to post that on my profile wall, if you want. I'll have an easier time remembering to reply then, lol. I'm just running on low sleep rn. |
Nov 3, 2016 9:22 PM
#300
Kagami said: That's the biggest crime of all, tbh. Because my DOA game was targetted by them. Trash. DOA is life. |
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