I really don't understand the hate on moe..

HikiMaru said:
@Otaku-Gunso I agree with your statement. Back in the day, I was initially told that Moe was a feeling rather than a type of anime or a specific characterisation. So, when I heard anime like Lucky Star being called Moe, was a little puzzling to me.
Our community hammers down the specific characteristics of what makes an ideal Moe, as a result, it's quite obvious that many people were confined with those ideals.

Otaku-Gunso said:


Actually when I first heard about moe it was a feeling rather then a sub genre of anime :P The 2D complex is strong in this topic !!

Shiza-sennin said:
Idk, mate. I think we should ask someone far more qualified @CherryLover.

CherryLover said:
Moe is quite simply, misrepresentation of females in general, and it's not even the comedic kind. It's there for characters to be stared at, drooled upon, used as "waifus". Anime like Legend of Galactic Heroes do not have moe and they still manage to weave a competent story. It's "culture" like moe that makes anime as repugnant as it is to the general public.



Oh, it's you again, with your sickening signature and your glorification of misogynistic trolls. I won't bother replying to you, you're nothing to me.

Shiza-sennin said:

OT: It may just not be some people's cup of tea, esp. in the case of the SJW feminazis lurking the forums here.

CherryLover said:
Moe is quite simply, misrepresentation of females in general, and it's not even the comedic kind. It's there for characters to be stared at, drooled upon, used as "waifus". Anime like Legend of Galactic Heroes do not have moe and they still manage to weave a competent story. It's "culture" like moe that makes anime as repugnant as it is to the general public.

Darekmhn1 said:
@CherryLover
@Shiza-sennin

you two are here as well? okay, I'mma grab some popcorn and tissues so I have something to cry into

CherryLover said:

Stop using the terms "SJW" and "feminazis", read this thread and understand how derogatory and misrepresentative these terms are.

jal90 said:

Well, we needed at least some stupid reaction like this to justify this circlejerk of a thread. Now it's done. We can lock it now.

jal90 said:

Well, we needed at least some stupid reaction like this to justify this circlejerk of a thread. Now it's done. We can lock it now.

Shiza-sennin said:

Thanks for educating me. I can now begin my path to becoming a champion of social justice.

CherryLover said:

Very funny, but I don't believe you. You're as rotten a troll as the rest of your brethren.

CherryLover said:

If you're insinuating that my argument is "stupid", then I ask that you reread it.

jal90 said:

I've reread it and confirmed that you are applying a definition for moe that is your own kind and fits your own agenda. Anything else?

It's like you wanted to talk about the "trophy wife" trope, which is indeed quite problematic, but "moe" sounds like a better word if you want to cause a reaction in an anime forum I guess.

CherryLover said:

Moe is a type of trophy wife. Characters that are "moe" or are drawn in that manner are often used as nothing more but idol material or just labelled as "waifu"; basically, they're treated like they don't "live and breathe", so to speak, when they obviously do.

Shiza-sennin said:

Won't bother replying even though I guided you to this thread?! How cruel, Cherry-chan.

OT: It may just not be some people's cup of tea, esp. in the case of the SJW feminazis lurking the forums here.

Veethorn said:
I don't hate it, I find it distracting. Its enervating when a perfectly good story is interrupted for something I see as completely unnecessary and irrelevant to the plot.

Shikona said:
Because it kind of led to the decline of more intelligent, sophisticated anime.

People are so caught up in trying to buy the latest anime figurines and all other moe shit, that people who aren't part of the anime community suddenly assume this is how anime in general is. Just cutesy, and petty, and ridiculously adorable.

But, meh. It's whatever. People can buy and watch and think whatever they want about moe, I guess.

-Senpai- said:
Everyone loves moe. They're just faggets trying to hide it.

CherryLover said:
Moe is quite simply, misrepresentation of females in general, and it's not even the comedic kind. It's there for characters to be stared at, drooled upon, used as "waifus". Anime like Legend of Galactic Heroes do not have moe and they still manage to weave a competent story. It's "culture" like moe that makes anime as repugnant as it is to the general public.

You said:
Can you define intelligent and sophisticated anime? I personally found "fun things are fun", and bunch of quotes from Aria series are deep and intelligent.

Also who don't like cutesy and adorable stuffs?

Shikona said:



Anime like Monster, Psycho-Pass, Mushishi, Aoi Bungaku Series... None of these anime would scream moe, and they definitely require some sort of higher level thinking than say Keion or Lucky Star

Shikona said:
Anime like Monster, Psycho-Pass, Mushishi, Aoi Bungaku Series... None of these anime would scream moe, and they definitely require some sort of higher level thinking than say Keion or Lucky Star

You said:

What is wrong with the concept of "waifus"? There's a lot of anime that uses male to be stared of and be used as "husbandos" as well? Oh wait some of them are in your favorites! Isn't it misandry for letting girls to have "husbandos" while not leting boys to have "waifus"? What if we change it to girls having waifus and boys having husbandos? Which one is allowed? if it's the former then isn't that a total misandry?

Clebardman said:
@CherryLover The double standard in this one is hilarious. I mean, I usually don't care enough to like or dislike your posts but that's just insulting.

Clebardman said:
@CherryLover if you're going to base your whole argument on something as arbitrary and ridiculous than "all women are pure and all men are pigs", I'm going to feel insulted, and I'll have a hard time taking you seriously, yeah.

You could defend your stance without that ridiculous bit regarding Free! and the way women treat fanservice.

Clebardman said:
@CherryLover The double standard in this one is hilarious. I mean, I usually don't care enough to like or dislike your posts but that's just insulting.

jal90 said:

It's not? Cuteness is not even the only character trait of moe characters most of the time (if not all the time). And it isn't either specifically and inequivocally associated with waifuism. Even those so-called "moeblob" shows have themes, interrelationships, continuity, etc. and several ways to approach these characters. And every damn character can be a waifu or a husbando, for that matter. The girls from K-On!, Sora no Woto, Clannad... do have a psychology and a context, and complexities inherent to their world that are also seen in the way they develop throughout. Heck, Clannad is specially bound to rely on "perfect waifu" tropes and it has been criticized for that (kind of a partial argument though) but it still has a will to make the audience understand where do characters come from, their goals and their reasons.

I'm sure there are shows you can totally claim to be these "characters who are treated like they don't live and breathe", and I'm sure some of them may be moe, the problem is, that doesn't make moe as the broad category it is any more representative of this trend than... I dunno, post-apocalyptic sci-fi? Sitcom? Melodrama? Whatever other broad narrative theme or construction?

Zilf said:
Except there's a clear line between admiring and objectifying.

Clebardman said:
@CherryLover What? Strawman, where?
"A straw man is a common form of argument and is an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not advanced by that opponent."
What inexistent argument did I refute? I just said your premise was silly and wrong. Are you going to tell me you never said what you said 2 posts ago now? ^_-

OOOOooooh the "males aren't objectified" bit. Well, sorry but that wasn't what I was talking about, you jumped to conclusions. I was bothered by your generalization.

I'll be honest, I don't believe in that laïus either. I DO think the world is still quite misogynistic and unfair, but certainly not when it comes to idealization/objectification of the male/female body, at least in non-porn stuff.

@CherryLover if you're going to base your whole argument on something as arbitrary and ridiculous than "all women are pure and all men are pigs", I'm going to feel insulted, and I'll have a hard time taking you seriously, yeah.

CherryLover said:

And there you have it, Mr "Semen Demon", as you seem to like calling yourself. Men aren't objectified like women are, and even if they are, they certainly don't feel any negative repercussions. All you're doing here is making a straw man and moving goalposts so that my argument doesn't hit you as hard as it should. We girls admire men in ways that are not just related to instant sexual gratification. You males on the other hand only think of "waifus" as pleasure-relieving objects to be thrown around without care. You tell me what's the difference.

Clebardman said:

(Can't believe I'm arguing with a feminist. I'm usually dealing with MRAs here ^^')

You said:

How can you know? There's a lot of "fujoshis" in anime community that I know and yes, they read the yaoi hentai doujinshis of the male character, some of them are even my friends.

And if you just think that I'm going to said I'm too pro-male then no you're wrong I'm just using double standards. Ofc it's misogynistic if male can have waifus and love yuri but not female having husbandos and love yaoi.

Zilf said:
Except there's a clear line between admiring and objectifying.

It's the reverse here, what people seeks from moe are generally just "cute" and "innocent" feeling it gives. sub promoting an obsession to purity which associated with the idea of slut shaming as well as "purity is the only good thing about female".

Clebardman said:
@CherryLover

So you're actually denying what you just said three posts ago.

"Men aren't objectified like women are, and even if they are, they certainly don't feel any negative repercussions. All you're doing here is making a straw man and moving goalposts so that my argument doesn't hit you as hard as it should. We girls admire men in ways that are not just related to instant sexual gratification. You males on the other hand only think of "waifus" as pleasure-relieving objects to be thrown around without care. You tell me what's the difference."

1/stop throwing "strawman" around (especially when it doesn't make sense). It's not going to make you win any debate. Winning a debate isn't about making yourself feel good, it's about changing the other's opinions. You're don't seem to be here to debate anything, fight patriarchy or whatever, but for racking Feel-Good ePoints.
2/Nice to see it's okay to objectify men because our feelings don't count as much as girls' feelings ^_-.

CherryLover said:

Being a "fujoshi" and actively objectifying women are two different things. Stop moving the goalposts and actually try to defend your argument. A "fujoshi" reads yaoi in admiration of men, an "otaku" collects waifus like he collects figurines just to please himself and objectify characters that should not be objectified. You're the one having double standards here if you can't make sense of this.

jal90 said:

You are almost making it sound like reacting to "cuteness" and "innocence" can only lead to obsession to purity associated with the idea of slut shaming. When it has been already established several times that moe has a much more diversified fanbase than that, that its demographic appeal is transversal, and that males and females can like moe shows the same way. Judging an entire narrative device with an absurd amount of ramifications and variations through the viewpoint of a conveniently stereotypical friendzoned otaku doesn't make a proper argument.

Also, objectification is inherent to fiction writing. The concept needs to be expanded upon, not just throw it like nothing because, in a discussion about fictional stuff with an author who conceives characters with a purpose, this term means nothing.

Clebardman said:
@CherryLover the only thing you're doing is give the MRAs here exactly the kind of example they like to throw around when bashing feminism. You're just making it harder for us to call them idiots who circlejerk to imaginary people.

Either do it right, or stop talking about feminism, because what you're currently doing isn't going to help in any way. It can only make things worse.

My favorite theory right now is that you're just a far right MRA who's better at trolling than the others.

Zilf said:
Because it is, it associated with that, slut shaming. you talk about there's more to that? but that doesn't change that the first approach to moe is mostly because the obsession of purity, it's like how people say "personality matter, look doesn't" when i reality it's is the first impression and mosty the look that draw people in first before knowing and learning about other party personality.
here's the same, people get drawn into moe because the obsession of purity after that even if the said "moe" anime has more to offer, it doesn't change that people drawn in by the purity. the obsession of purity, they like watching anime with pure heroine.
Again, obsession of purity and also associated with slut shaming.

Clebardman said:

@Zilf please. Because only women can admire and only men can objectify. that's why every male underwear model is on steroids.

Zilf said:
Because it is, it associated with that, slut shaming. you talk about there's more to that? but that doesn't change that the first approach to moe is mostly because the obsession of purity, it's like how people say "personality matter, look doesn't" when i reality it's is the first impression and mosty the look that draw people in first before knowing and learning about other party personality.

Zilf said:
here's the same, people get drawn into moe because the obsession of purity after that even if the said "moe" anime has more to offer, it doesn't change that people drawn in by the purity. the obsession of purity, they like watching anime with pure heroine.
Again, obsession of purity and also associated with slut shaming.

You said:

Wait, I understand your statement saying that moe is associated with cuteness, innocence, and purity but how does those 3 associated with slut shaming? Isn't pure girls the opposite of sluts?

Zilf said:

It isn't a matter of "can" here. it's about the ratio speaking result by engaging with internet user.