While searching for similar shows...

ColdBreeze said:
It's the thiller tag. Only 86 shows have it here on MAL.

Without it you should get a bit more results.

ColdBreeze said:
Looks like psychological and fantasy are quite rare to find.

Rehls said:


0) Nonsense. Every genre it possess reflects strong aspects of the show. Some action & fantasy show would be Tales of Zestiria. Now go and compare that one to this one. The difference is glaring.

1) There is. Your problem might be that you don't care enough about the story and the characters. ... Subaru didn't die in the whale's fight. He took a long time to die in the fight against Petelgeuse. Petelgeuse was confronted quite a few times.
So you say you were expecting him and/or other characters to die sooner? When they didn't. There's uncertainty in when he'll die, and how much he'll lose, and have to redo. But you don't care anyway, right? Yeah.

2) This is a more natural, realistic approach. There's no someone narrating what Subaru's going through, nor is he having inner monologues all the time. Different =/= bad.

3) More of the everyday is shown, so it makes it more realistic? Nope.

4) I don't believe so. Obvious reasons is that someone from that world wouldn't get in as much trouble as Subaru does, and they'd not be someone so desperate to become some hero, and wouldn't be falling for Emilia. There should be much more, still. ... Someone from that world...? Their actions would depend on their background. Why hasn't the village guy from the latest episode become Subaru? He's not crazy... Someone more likely to do what Subaru's doing, would be someone coming from some prominent family, like Julius and Reinhard. And there's Aldebaran, but he's around 40 years old... I imagine that it'd be much more difficult to become stronger, being poor, and not having access to an exceptional trainer... I heard something about Reinhard possessing an ability that lets him train others to their maximum potential... This shouldn't be something you'd find anywhere. So you'd still want to believe that some peasant, from that world, with much more common sense, would be doing what Subaru's doing? Hahah... Nah. It's Subaru's background that makes him do what he does.
I already made a comparison where Emilia would be some random woman wielding a gun, shooting at the ground to scare away a bunch of thugs in an alley in the real world... Now what sane person would want to get involved with someone like that? Subaru, in the real world, wouldn't.


@Xillya-
Shigurui (that I liked quite a lot) is the only one of its kind...

EmpirenXD said:
4) Wow I've never seen an underdog in anime before! Oh he's in love with the main heroine? That's surprising! Never seen that before!
(All that stuff is basically Danmachi and every other show that's supposed to be a self-insert for the fanbase).

Tony_SansNom said:

Since when is Bell Cranel an underdog?
And OMG a woman and a man have a relationship! It's not like we never saw that in any fiction, right? How lame is that? How unoriginal, right? I'll never get into fiction ever again because a guy is in love with some girl... dumbass.

And you clearly didn't watch or read rezero if you think it's self-insert. But don't worry, I'll laugh at you every day from this day forth.

EmpirenXD said:

Since the first episode? That's literally the point of his character?

I'm not the one bringing it up, so you might want to calm yourself there.

Really? I've seen sooo many people say Subaru is "realistic" and "I can relate to him", that's not even touching on the waifu stuff.

You'll be laughing until next month when this series plummets because no one will care by the time the next FoTM series comes along.

Tony_SansNom said:

You seem to be misunderstanding something. They can relate to him because he is real. Realistiic. Self-insert character in a isekai story would be someone who has to save the world with their awesome and unreachable power. Being overpowered. Being invincible. Being THE ONE. Subaru is none of these.

Tony_SansNom said:

Since when is Bell Cranel an underdog?
And OMG a woman and a man have a relationship! It's not like we never saw that in any fiction, right? How lame is that? How unoriginal, right? I'll never get into fiction ever again because a guy is in love with some girl... dumbass.

And you clearly didn't watch or read rezero if you think it's self-insert. But don't worry, I'll laugh at you every day from this day forth.

Rehls said:


0) I remember watching, then dropping that one at some point... It wasn't exciting to me. I remember seeing the protagonist light-kicking some heavily armored knight, and having him collapse... Uh. But this is just me picking on the nonsensical bits... It was too convenient. "Let's rush! We don't have to deal with this situation in a more sensible way! None cares anyway! This a Shounen show!"...was the impression I got. But the show was more about adventure. Where was the espionage and such? It wasn't even needed, was it? Eh. ... Psychological? Was also an weak aspect, I imagine. Just compare whatever happens there to Subaru constantly having to gather information to proceed, while suffering in the process...
psychological-thriller:noun
a suspenseful movie or book emphasizing the psychology of its characters rather than the plot; this sub-genre of thriller movie or book

Examples
In a psychological thriller, the characters are exposed to danger on a mental level rather than a physical one.

1) Wut? Even to the death he had by the thug, there was a build up. Are you not seeing? Subaru angered the psychotic one, resulting in him being stabbed in the back. In his latest death, it's been hinted that Subaru had strong affinity to spirits... But it already had been foreshadowed when he laughed maniacally when he died to Puck... In the episode before his latest death, we've seen Petelgeuse changing bodies... I could talk about every of his deaths, eh. I disagree. There's suspense, but you imply that you believe that it's how it should always be... Wut? Death can happen suddenly, and not.

2) 'has out of nowhere'. Stand in Subaru's place: how would you have learned about Nect? How'd you know Julius possess said ability? Stand in Julius place: would you tell Subaru, someone you only briefly interacted with, something this important about yourself? For what reason? Julius did when it was needed. The concept of his ability is something we're familiar with. Now I don't how this isn't a realistic approach. ... And this isn't too related to what I said, I think? Eh, no matter, I guess.
The politics? Where were these 'standards' established? And why'd you consider them a 'joke'? ... The candidates being too relaxed in the meeting? I imagine myself being even more, in their place... If I had power like theirs, I'd feel quite fearless...

3) Same here.

4) Wut? Was the protagonist of Danmachi from another world? I suppose it was a fantasy world, right? You realize Subaru's doing what he does because he was naive? That the show acknowledges and addresses this? Where then, he gets punished by the world he's taken so lightly...? You realize that the story didn't accept Subaru? It'd follow a generic route if it did (something to criticize). I guess this is what happened in that Danmachi show? Haven't gotten interested it. Looked too comedic... Yeah, it's tagged as such.

That's confusing. 'why hasn't'? The reason is that someone as weak as Subaru wouldn't succeed without such a convenient gift. ... You'd imagine yourself surviving to Elsa? That'd be like your future self, combat-wise? How much sense would this make...? How wishful.

Author took the opportunity, and gave what's been being demanded; profit.

Nope. I'm pretty sure I'm just trying to apply common sense into you.

EmpirenXD said:


Self empowerment is what you are describing.

Rehls said:
-snipe-

Tony_SansNom said:

Let me translate this into your language: Subaru is weak. Thus, he has to suffer and die a lot. Who would want to suffer and die? Do you desire to? If so, then it is a self-insert character.

Relating to a character (because he is realistic, for exemple) does not make him a self-insert. A self-insert would have only the benefits and none of the bad aspects.

Living in a world of madness and danger but being a self-insert means you have to be powerful to defend yourself and not have anything bad happen to you. Because pain and death are not desirable.

Subaru wants to save and protect those he cares about. But he loses something else in exchange, that is, his safety, his sanity to some degree and... has to accept a lot of pain. Physical, and mental. That is not desirable.

Subaru isn't a self-insert.

RainyRai said:

Wtf? Bell isn't an underdog? One of the base plot points is that he wants to be a hero and he works hard at it, even though people don't believe in him. He's an underdog. He's still an underdog once the series ends because most of the high level players around him could whoop him sideways if they were in afight.

Re:Zero was very easily self insert for the first two arcs. Though Subaru wasn't a bad character yet, so it doesn't matter.

EmpirenXD said:
He's a NEET/Otaku transported into a fantasy realm, surrounded by girls, is arguably the hero of the story if you take season 1, is immortal.

He's an underdog, sure. But that's generally what people see themselves as and is generally what the isekai franchise is about.

Subaru also lives in a mansion and is friends with "the waifus" of the show.
He's not a street rat or anything.

Tony_SansNom said:
Lel, NO. Bell Cranel isn't an underdog. He's pretty OP

Tony_SansNom said:

Lel, NO. Bell Cranel isn't an underdog. He's pretty OP. Just because others don't know about your power/don't recognize you doesn't mean you're an underdog OMG. And what is this about everyone standing above him? Suppose you've got a top 100. Just because you are not in the top 20 doesn't mean you are an underdog.


Eeeehm.... how?


Following that logic, most (if not al)l of the Fantasy genre is a self-insert hive.
All of fiction, even?

EmpirenXD said:


Dude you didn't watch the show. Just give it up.

RainyRai said:

Bell was weak as fuck at the start of the series and he only got any strong once the series ended. Even then, plenty of people in the series are already stronger then him(like Ais and her crew) and there are plenty more who would be stronger.

Also, that's what the definition of underdog is. Someone who is not though to succeed, and is looked down upon.

Arc 1-2 Subaru was easy self insert.

"NEET otaku gamer guy who is also fit gets transported to a fantasy world. The world is rough but he can never die, so he can utilize this ability to not die and help people, like those maid twins or the half-elf girl, or the thief girl and old man."

Tony_SansNom said:

Bell Cranel leveled up faster than anyone else in history and even Ais is asking him how he can be so strong, so fast. How is that even underdog lol? Even at the beginning he isn't that weak. Facing a monster that you can't kill at low level and actually getting your ass handed does not mean you are weak. It's like asking a boxer to fight with a lion.

Rehls said:
@EmpirenXD

0) No, I didn't. He used both his arms, and stated that he had a 75kg grip strength. It was two arms against one, that were twisting it. If someone forces themselves against it, they suffer pain. Anyway.

It isn't... Actually, it isn't like I mind, hah. And I don't care about a show I'll probably never finish. So why not comment on it anyway? Eh.

1) It can be considered, yeah. I knew at that moment, that Subaru wouldn't get away with it. xD I saw the it building up, and leading where I expected it to.

2) Uhum. So what's the problem? They don't go telling everyone their secrets. It's probable that they've already, but to those closer to them. Subaru's new.

4) It actually matters in this show, because it's realistic. How do you like hearing this word so often, hm? Someone from that world wouldn't be doing what Subaru is (under normal circumstances), period.

Obviously. But it's a possibility in that world. It's super convenient to be able to fly, too. Props to Roswaal.

Dude... get real. xD By 'working hard' as you say, Subaru would age years, to decades. Would people wait? If not, would they appreciate the time-skip? Or would they want an aged Subaru? Ah, eh.

He's being made use of by some powerful being from that world, that saw interest in him. It'd probably not be possible, weren't Subaru who he is. If Subaru were a more normal person, he'd not have accepted this new world so easily, we know. His desperate interest in it should've been one of the things that made him fit. I imagine that Satella predicted the path Subaru would want to take.

You pass me the impression of being young and naive. O_o 'fundamentals'? Wut? You're delusional, eh. Either you're young and naive, or you're old and old-fashioned. ... Oh, but don't mind what I say... This is just an impression (that I find relevant).

Immahnoob said:
Wait, people are arguing that this isn't a psychological thriller?

We're constantly bombarded with information about Subaru's mental health every few minutes and the suspense lies in what type of bullshit Subaru will be thrown in and how he dies.

Immahnoob said:
Wait, people are arguing that this isn't a psychological thriller?

We're constantly bombarded with information about Subaru's mental health every few minutes and the suspense lies in what type of bullshit Subaru will be thrown in and how he dies.

0) dude the guy was twice his size. It wouldn't matter if he threw his entire body at him lol.

1) Really? The buildup was what? Enemy approaches and stabs Subaru? That's not "buildup" for the scenario guy. Learn what the term means. You can't have suspense of character death if you repeatedly kill off the characters and bring them back to life.

The difference is that very few episodes talk about Subaru's mental health. (15, 18, w/e one in the mansion) and that's really shallow commentary/introspection. It's more just him blurting out stuff.

Thrillers require suspense

suspense: a state or feeling of excited or anxious uncertainty about what may happen.

Like there is no foreboding presence of Beltegueese. He just strolls into town and murders everyone, never been foreshadowed before outside of vague "the witch is taboo" stuff.

That's not a thriller any more than Chaika fighting a unicorn was.

I don't know. It would be psychological if the setting was heavily discussing those state of mind, like in the monogatari series.

Rezero expects that you understand what characters like Subaru or Emillia or Rem go through so it won't spell it out for you. It doesn't have to go in depth about it because it is deep enough the way it is for the setting as it is.

Immahnoob said:
@EmpirenXD

You're one funny guy.
This isn't how body strength works. Professionals can even lift 4 times their weight.
suspense: a state or feeling of excited or anxious uncertainty about what may happen.

So you're wrong, most of the Anime has exactly this.

Immahnoob said:
@EmpirenXD
So you want to be constantly spoonfed? What exactly happens every time he dies? How does he grow through all those deaths? Is he not mentally afflicted almost every time he dies? Don't we see introspections and commentary about his psyche every episode? Even his behavior changes because of his unstable mental health, and we're shown that through animation.
And this show has plenty of it.
Cliffhangers for example are something very often used in thrillers, besides the fact that there's always a new way Subaru will die and we have no idea how he'll react to the killings and his own death. Hell, even more mundane crap like how he explores the mansion when everyone dies is part of the formula.

The Witch Cult has been a thing since Arc 2. There was foreshadowing about Emilia encountering the Witch Cult since she's a half-elf and basically publicized the fact to the whole country in Arc 3.

If you don't know what you're talking about, please don't bother replying to me.
Definitions disagree.
@Tony_SansNorm
We constantly get reminded of his changing state of mind every damn time... Since it's a first person narration, you'll get only Subaru's psychological situation.
Different styles =/= Different genres. Styles are part of genres.

And that's not how grip strength works unless it's a masturbation joke.

No, it doesn't. You're mistaking suspense for the audience for being for the characters.

But w/e, apologetics and contrarians.

If you're going to say a show is "psychological" yeah, you need to "spoonfeed" the audience. Otherwise you might as well say Trigun is psychological because Vash has emotional issues with his past lol.

Really? What suspense is there that isn't in Jojos? Please, do tell.

Cliffhangers in thrillers are not used as "oh it's this guy I don't like" or "it's a whale". It's just desperate writing/directing.

That's not what buildup is. That's a textual explanation that something exist, that's not a buildup to the event portrayed.(again, this is all over the anime. Dogs, whales, whatever it is keeps comin in and doing stuff without have any prior buildup. It's like if GoT simply had dragons pop out of the sky and go "oh yeah this was a thing mentioned before" as they rained fire on ships).

a progressive or sequential development:

Definitions don't disagree. I can apply them to both.

We constantly don't. In fact the only time it happens is whenever subaru "breaks down" but then it's just a mental episode, not an introspection or analyzation. Literally the only time this happens is episode 18 and that episode is a total joke if you're going to compare it to other psycholigcal anime.

All the characters are relatively shallow for a 25 episode show, but that's including Subaru. Without him, the show is just super flat.

Immahnoob said:
@EmpirenXD
You know nothing about weight lifting, do you?

Grip strength is extremely important in weight lifting, besides being part of the muscles needed (half of them) for you to be able to weight lift. If his grip strength is 75 kgs, it's not inconceivable that he could lift someone of that size with both of his hands.
Try contradicting the definition with some evidence, what you just said does not contradict the definition in any way. Non sequitur.
Learn your shit and get back to me then.

No, it is inconcievable because he's not a professional weight lifter.

You literally used a definition and didn't understand it's application. If you are asking for "evidence" then you're just not understanding what's going on here.

Sounds like standard apologetics.

Immahnoob said:
@EmpirenXD
Psychological thriller: A novel, film, etc., in the thriller genre which focuses on the psychology of its characters, or which psychologically manipulates its audience or readership.

We get exposition on the mental state of Subaru every episode, with it constantly changing too. Sometimes we get that with other characters, but less, and only through the eyes of Subaru.

I don't know Jojo, nor do I care.
I don't remember asking for your opinion, it's one of the staples of the thriller genres objectively, cliffhangers.
It's literally the definition of buildup:
Again, could you be less wrong? It gets tedious, I could as well just point at your post and say "Wrong".
Both what? I don't care what you think you can do, it fits Re:Zero so I can conclude that it is a psychological thriller, so whatever you can do is rather irrelevant to me.
Do note that him breaking down is part of the psychological aspect but it's not what decides it. The mere idea that the show focuses on his psychological status especially is enough for us to conclude that it's psychological.
Your definition of "shallow" is arbitrary.

EmpirenXD said:


If you're going to say a show is "psychological" yeah, you need to "spoonfeed" the audience. Otherwise you might as well say Trigun is psychological because Vash has emotional issues with his past lol.

Really? What suspense is there that isn't in Jojos? Please, do tell.

Cliffhangers in thrillers are not used as "oh it's this guy I don't like" or "it's a whale". It's just desperate writing/directing.

That's not what buildup is. That's a textual explanation that something exist, that's not a buildup to the event portrayed.(again, this is all over the anime. Dogs, whales, whatever it is keeps comin in and doing stuff without have any prior buildup. It's like if GoT simply had dragons pop out of the sky and go "oh yeah this was a thing mentioned before" as they rained fire on ships).


Definitions don't disagree. I can apply them to both.

We constantly don't. In fact the only time it happens is whenever subaru "breaks down" but then it's just a mental episode, not an introspection or analyzation. Literally the only time this happens is episode 18 and that episode is a total joke if you're going to compare it to other psycholigcal anime.

All the characters are relatively shallow for a 25 episode show, but that's including Subaru. Without him, the show is just super flat.

Rehls said:

0) Like I said, Subaru twisted his arm. You know what happens when it's done, right? Subaru throwing himself at the guy would be less effective, actually.

1) Like I said, I saw that it'd happen. It was pretty obvious, actually. It's a short build up, but is still one. And again, what's it about implying that there always should be long build ups? What do you think about unexpected assaults resulting in death? Aren't we seeing the world mostly through Subaru's view? It'd be natural for something like this to happen to him. We'd then get the justification later, anyway.

2) It's that the characters become relevant soon. And these characters...are combatants. Subaru's seeking their help. Subaru is short on time. Also, Subaru's not too intimate with them. So how'd you expect him to learn more about them? If you understand these things, you'll see that it's reasonable.

4) Well I made my point. It's what's being done here. Having some peasant from that world having done what Subaru did, would equal to Subaru getting a gun in the real world and facing criminals... uh. Crazy, right? In a more serious show like this one, this is unacceptable.

Didn't need to do anything else, besides becoming who he is. He was chosen. What'd I criticize is he being given the choice... It makes more sense that he's chosen as a tool for a purpose. Because what'd someone like him have what to bargain with? He's in no position. Only in a more wishful context, he'd be, hah. It make little sense for him to learn such a powerful ability by himself, wut. You should be aware of this. It's so strong, that it was given by one of the most powerful beings of that world. Hmm? He died because sense, hah. Uh, like I said in another topic, it's possible to simulate 'playing as' a peasant like Subaru. Really, you'd not go far into the game, alone. This sense's being applied, simply.

Um, not really. It's just that you appear to only be willing to grasp a side of it, or that you can only grasp the side that's the most obvious to you, while neglecting the other. Then you go and accuse it of having only that one, and call it a flaw, knowing that you'll appear more correct than not.

Of course he's being used for a purpose! So it only makes sense to give him such an ability, otherwise he'd not serve!

>That level of ignorance, yay!

Hahahah... I wish someone else cared more.

You literally quoted the definition that just proved your other point wrong.

No, we don't get exposition every episode. In fact most of the episodes go by with crappy action or SoL junk.

Of course you don't know Jojo's, why would I expect you to know about a cornerstone of the anime/manga industry, I'm talking to a fanboy of a LN series.

Yes, but you're missing the difference between what normal cliffhangers are and how they apply.

-Reoccurrent theme- Using a definition then not being able to apply it.
(in other words, you just lack critical thinking skills).

Yep, in the same sense as that other idiot described "enemy infront of me is buildup to me fighting enemy". Good job not being able to apply the definition again.

Are you being one of those idiots who takes things super literally? Why bother saying "i don't care what you think you can do"? It's not as if I am creating putting my branding iron to them both or anything.(jeez, what a tool).

The show doesn't really focus on it though. It happens, but it's not analyzed.

That's the same as saying characters that break down in horror movies is "psychological".

Bleh, that term is so utterly nebulous that it's no wonder the pretentious fanboys use it over and over like "realistic" in a fantasy setting.

All definitions are arbitrary you tool.

Learn what semantics are

arguing any more of this is not worth my time.

Rukoudiora said:

There is suspense in JoJo? I'm going to go ahead and take part 4 as an example. I've only noticed suspense since Kira appeared, there has been almost NO suspense in the entirety of JoJo. You can argue that Okuyasu and his brother's arc had suspense, but that's it. Whereas Re:Zero has constant suspense in Arc 1 (He suddenly dies and finds out Emilia lied to him, he revived and ends on a cliffhanger = suspense, the whole Elsa issue was suspense) ,2 (Getting killed and ending = suspense, Subaru staying up to see what killed him then suddenly he vomits and feel sick and then suddenly someone kills him, cliffhanger = suspense) AND 3. ETC.............

Shallow characters? Subaru, Rem, Ram, Julius, Crusch, Felix, Wilhelm had depth to them, you can even argue Emilia has. This alone proves your argument is null.

If you're gonna argue, at least argue about points Re:Zero DO lack in.

Immahnoob said:
@EmpirenXD
Not at all, the definition proves my point.
We actually do, now you're outright denying facts.
Not an argument. You can always press the "Shared" button on my profile and take examples from there if you think you can find any.
Your way of defining "cliffhanger" is odd and vague. If you won't go into detail, I'll take it as your forfeit on this point.
Do I? Because there are reoccurring psychological themes in this Anime.
Actually, that fits the definition too. E.g. enemy meets me, enemy prepares to attack, enemy lunges at me. That's exactly the definition word by word.
Try and speak English.
Nowhere is "analyzation" part of the definition.
If the horror focuses on their breakdown, that's psychological.
"Realistic" can be used in a fantasy setting.
That's wrong, definitions are objective.
The study of meaning. Words are given meaning by their use. Until "shallow" is used as arbitrarily as you use it, it won't change definition, thus, remain objective until it subsequently changes.
Until now, you've only made shit up and blabbered nonsense.

EmpirenXD said:


Psychological thriller: A novel, film, etc., in the thriller genre which focuses on the psychology of its characters, or which psychologically manipulates its audience or readership.

Audience

Not characters.

Done.