Re:ZERO -Starting Life in Another World- (light novel)
DO NOT discuss the source material beyond this episode. If you want to discuss future events or theories, please use separate threads.
DO NOT ask where to watch/download this episode or give links to copyrighted, non-fair use material.
DO NOT troll/bait/harass/abuse other users for liking or disliking the series/characters.
DO read the Anime Discussion Rules and Site & Forum Guidelines.
DO NOT ask where to watch/download this episode or give links to copyrighted, non-fair use material.
DO NOT troll/bait/harass/abuse other users for liking or disliking the series/characters.
DO read the Anime Discussion Rules and Site & Forum Guidelines.
MrAM said: Subaru roasted himself good. I've come to be ambivalent towards the scenes of "characters scream their feelings/explain their personalities while dramatic music plays culminating in epic climax," but Re:Zero built up to this so expertly, established everything stated explicitly here before, and executed the scene itself so excellently that I'm willing to give this a pass. It worked brilliantly as a much-needed cathartic moment for both Subaru and the audience, heralding Subaru's lowest moment and subsequent rebirth, and marking a turning point for this arc's story, fitting as this was basically its halfway point. But wow, this episode. This here was Re: Zero's most damning condemnation of NEET shut-in otaku culture, its most withering critique of what Subaru represents, its most dramatic deconstruction of the "escape into fantasy-game world" genre that it clearly sees as nothing less than toxic. No, the narrative says, leaving behind your miserable life to start over in a fantasy world will not magically fix your problems. It will not suddenly make you a better person. It will not suddenly turn you into the flawless, super-powered hero you wish you could be. It will not transport you to heaven. It will not make you happy. The same personal flaws that dragged you down in your old world will drag you down in this one, because your past will not suddenly vanish, no, it will keep dogging you until you learn to change yourself. Your escapism is but a shallow illusion. Re; Zero takes an idea that many people fantasize about (escaping their problems by living in an idealized fantasy-game world) and demonstrates just how terrifying it would be if a living, breathing human being actually experienced it (the show's central conceit of "Return by Death" is a brilliant display of how inhumane the literal application of video game mechanics to real people can be). Subaru wasted away his existence before coming to this strange place, and the consequences of that lifestyle have asserted themselves over and over, exacerbated rather then remedied by this new world. And yet, in the same breath that Re: Zero condemns Subaru and his ilk, it reaffirms them. This is done via Rem, of course. Her insistence on highlighting Subaru's positive qualities, the ones that inspired her love, even in the face of his raw expression of self-hatred, is the narrative's own way of acknowledging the heroic potential of people like Subaru. It's not Subaru's grand gestures that endear him to Rem, a direct rebuttal to the popular LN notion that it is grandiose powers and godly capabilities that define one's heroism and personal achievement. It's the small things that make Subaru human that point to the best of him, that confirm his essential goodness. Subaru is severely flawed, but he is not without redeeming qualities, and so he cannot be the filth that he claims to be. This story's writer made an interesting choice in writing an arc that showcased Subaru's best (Arc 2) before the one that displayed his worst (Arc 3). It's led some people to claim that Subaru randomly regressed to generate drama and pointless character development. The reality, however, is that everything wrong with Subaru was established subtly (perhaps too subtly) in the first two arcs. Subaru is a complex enough character, and the writing nuanced enough, that he can both be the hero we saw in the first two arcs and the coward we saw in this one without any fundamental contradiction. Different circumstances brought out different sides of him, and that it is his worst side that he must come to terms with now. More so, having seen the best of Subaru before seeing his worst, we the audience can agree with Rem's praise. It does not ring hollow, because we have seen it first-hand. And so, to return to the meta analysis, the narrative does not unilaterally declare shut-ins ruined. That would be cruel. It criticizes the bad while highlighting the good as a way of showing that they have the capacity and the potential to do better. And Subaru does. I liked the visual parallel between the shot of his eyes this episode and the one that ended episode 15. People thought the one back then signified the arrival of hero Subaru, but really all it led to was more pathetic Subaru. The murderous gleam in his eyes did not indicate his awesomeness, it indicated his heedless greed and all-consuming desire for vengeance, which simply led to more destruction and mattered nothing without a genuine resolve to change. Contrast that to the plainer shot here, which is the real signifier of hero Subaru's arrival. They are clear and firm, a sign that Subaru has set his mind straight and is ready to truly move forward. From zero. A last note: Rem is awesome and Subaru is extremely lucky to have her, but I'm somewhat disturbed by the (seemingly) popular notion that that somehow ENTITLES her to Subaru's love. Just because a person selflessly aids you does not mean that you are obligated to return the favor with love. That's exactly the problem with the White Knight complex, the idea of which Re; Zero has viciously attacked throughout this arc. For Subaru to suddenly change affections just because Rem's acts of kindness weigh heavier on a scale than Emilia's would be a pretty gross thematic betrayal of everything the show has stood for, and nonsensical because love is not a math problem. And Rem, by agreeing to help Subaru despite the knowledge that she is not the ultimate target of his affections, demonstrates the depth of her love in a way that her many confessions never could. Fantastic analysis of what made this episode's writing stand out. You've addressed all the aspects of this episode that I found intriguing, and put words to my thoughts on the whole "rem entitlement" issue. I'll edit this post later with thoughts of my own, but for now I'd like to quote you on this issues we agree upon. |
 |
Akeno_Misaki said: You know, for someone who seems to hate edginess, you sure seem to be just that. So Subaru finally admits that he's just Author's plot device for more gorefest and edgy shock factor porn for the sake of it? This is the main reason why Studio Whitefox sacrifice their talent back in late 2014. I hope the original creator should kill himself. Make sure not to cut yourself on all that edge. |
| To all the secondaries and other faggots shitting on Subaru constantly with your bullshit "LOL I WOULD'VE SAVED EVERYONE HAHAHA WHAT A LOSER" and "WHAT AN ENTITLED PIECE OF SHIT HAHAHAHAHAHAHA" this episode was a direct spitball aimed at your retina. He already knew how shitty he was being all along, and part of his suffering was him beating himself up, so trying to throw shit back into his face like that thinking that you have some kind of argument is pretty laughable. Sad to see Rem get rejected, but its also good to see Subaru snapped out of his edginess finally. Now its time for Emilia to redeem herself. >lol even though I won't even try to understand your plight, I'm going to abandon you even though I haven't told you why being in the meeting with me was going to be a problem with you Fuck Emilia and her hypocrisy. |
 |
| Subaru's lowest point in the entire series. He made a complete retard out of him by choosing Emilia over Rem. But that's just how he is, and that's the person Rem, unfortunately, fell in love with in the first place. After this episode, Rem perhaps just became one of the best supporting girls ever? I can only think of |
| Stay Home and Wash Your Hands. Protect Yourself. Protect Your Loved Ones. Protect Your Community and Help Defeat Coronavirus. |
MrAM said: Subaru roasted himself good. I've come to be ambivalent towards the scenes of "characters scream their feelings/explain their personalities while dramatic music plays culminating in epic climax," but Re:Zero built up to this so expertly, established everything stated explicitly here before, and executed the scene itself so excellently that I'm willing to give this a pass. It worked brilliantly as a much-needed cathartic moment for both Subaru and the audience, heralding Subaru's lowest moment and subsequent rebirth, and marking a turning point for this arc's story, fitting as this was basically its halfway point. But wow, this episode. This here was Re: Zero's most damning condemnation of NEET shut-in otaku culture, its most withering critique of what Subaru represents, its most dramatic deconstruction of the "escape into fantasy-game world" genre that it clearly sees as nothing less than toxic. No, the narrative says, leaving behind your miserable life to start over in a fantasy world will not magically fix your problems. It will not suddenly make you a better person. It will not suddenly turn you into the flawless, super-powered hero you wish you could be. It will not transport you to heaven. It will not make you happy. The same personal flaws that dragged you down in your old world will drag you down in this one, because your past will not suddenly vanish, no, it will keep dogging you until you learn to change yourself. Your escapism is but a shallow illusion. Re; Zero takes an idea that many people fantasize about (escaping their problems by living in an idealized fantasy-game world) and demonstrates just how terrifying it would be if a living, breathing human being actually experienced it (the show's central conceit of "Return by Death" is a brilliant display of how inhumane the literal application of video game mechanics to real people can be). Subaru wasted away his existence before coming to this strange place, and the consequences of that lifestyle have asserted themselves over and over, exacerbated rather then remedied by this new world. And yet, in the same breath that Re: Zero condemns Subaru and his ilk, it reaffirms them. This is done via Rem, of course. Her insistence on highlighting Subaru's positive qualities, the ones that inspired her love, even in the face of his raw expression of self-hatred, is the narrative's own way of acknowledging the heroic potential of people like Subaru. It's not Subaru's grand gestures that endear him to Rem, a direct rebuttal to the popular LN notion that it is grandiose powers and godly capabilities that define one's heroism and personal achievement. It's the small things that make Subaru human that point to the best of him, that confirm his essential goodness. Subaru is severely flawed, but he is not without redeeming qualities, and so he cannot be the filth that he claims to be. This story's writer made an interesting choice in writing an arc that showcased Subaru's best (Arc 2) before the one that displayed his worst (Arc 3). It's led some people to claim that Subaru randomly regressed to generate drama and pointless character development. The reality, however, is that everything wrong with Subaru was established subtly (perhaps too subtly) in the first two arcs. Subaru is a complex enough character, and the writing nuanced enough, that he can both be the hero we saw in the first two arcs and the coward we saw in this one without any fundamental contradiction. Different circumstances brought out different sides of him, and that it is his worst side that he must come to terms with now. More so, having seen the best of Subaru before seeing his worst, we the audience can agree with Rem's praise. It does not ring hollow, because we have seen it first-hand. And so, to return to the meta analysis, the narrative does not unilaterally declare shut-ins ruined. That would be cruel. It criticizes the bad while highlighting the good as a way of showing that they have the capacity and the potential to do better. And Subaru does. I liked the visual parallel between the shot of his eyes this episode and the one that ended episode 15. People thought the one back then signified the arrival of hero Subaru, but really all it led to was more pathetic Subaru. The murderous gleam in his eyes did not indicate his awesomeness, it indicated his heedless greed and all-consuming desire for vengeance, which simply led to more destruction and mattered nothing without a genuine resolve to change. Contrast that to the plainer shot here, which is the real signifier of hero Subaru's arrival. They are clear and firm, a sign that Subaru has set his mind straight and is ready to truly move forward. From zero. A last note: Rem is awesome and Subaru is extremely lucky to have her, but I'm somewhat disturbed by the (seemingly) popular notion that that somehow ENTITLES her to Subaru's love. Just because a person selflessly aids you does not mean that you are obligated to return the favor with love. That's exactly the problem with the White Knight complex, the idea of which Re; Zero has viciously attacked throughout this arc. For Subaru to suddenly change affections just because Rem's acts of kindness weigh heavier on a scale than Emilia's would be a pretty gross thematic betrayal of everything the show has stood for, and nonsensical because love is not a math problem. And Rem, by agreeing to help Subaru despite the knowledge that she is not the ultimate target of his affections, demonstrates the depth of her love in a way that her many confessions never could. Great stuff, this. My only quarrel with this post is the idea that people who shut themselves in are automatically NEETs by choice or that its somehow a bad thing to transport yourself into a different world through video games. You have to subject yourself to some kind of distractions in life in order to keep yourself going. Nuances necessarily exist in real life. |
|
| My heart can't stand this, and now i have to wait for a week? this cannot be happening, i think im gonna drop the show until it ends, its so painful to wait a week after this (i wish i could).. so good i watch this and food wars at the same time, otherwise I wouldnt be able to handle it |
| Meh, dunno what to say. It wasn't bad even though it was mostly all talking, but I would be remiss in saying that dialogue doesn't move the plot of anything. I was able to sympathize with how Subaru feels about how things have ended up at this point. And how twisted up inside he is about his actions or inaction. And how his stagnant way of life before the story still haunts him. To him, this world is a second chance, sadly nothing is going as planned so he's falling back into the state of helplessness that existed before. While the words were typical of anime writing it spoke to me as I find myself in a similar state of stagnation as I did a few years ago due to an injury recently. No easy business having what you thought had left you catching up and your old habits dragging you back into the abyss of your past self. Puck pretty much stated he fucked up for failing to protect Emilia, and broke a promise in doing so in an attempt to save her, oddly enough From Subaru's understanding taking inaction in light of one of the said promises, which really seems like bullshit at this point in the story. Perhaps his inaction would have a greater effect on events by an unforeseen factor. As far as him rejecting Rem, I saw that coming. Can't say he's really wrong for that, I myself have learned you don't have total control over who you fall for. Been in a situation where one girls doesn't return your feelings in the end but yet there's one who will never betray you and you just can't bring yourself to love her. Like, literally I told her immediately after because I don't like toying with others heart, I know how that feels better than being accepted at all. Plus he's had unrequited feelings for Emilia long before he began to understand Rem. His honesty is fine. Still feels corny as fuck but, whatever. They're reusing this formula a bit too much. Subaru gets hyped "mentally broken" as MAL calls it, something inspires him, he gets broken again, he cries in someone's lap, gets re inspired, gets broken again/barely survives the ordeal.  |
QWERTYFish25Jul 31, 2016 11:20 PM
| The only reason why you guys think Rem is a lot better than Emilia is because Rem is inlove with Subaru hence willing to go the the extreme to save him since he saved her, on the flipside Emilia is NOT inlove with Subaru hence why you see Emilia as one dimensional, because she has nothing to push her to the extreme. Love is a very weird emotion, just because Rem died for him or any of that shiz doesnt mean he should fall inlove with her in return or anything like that, love does not work that way, it just happens (sometimes for weird and unrealistic reasons too) If you're madly obssesed/inlove with someone its not that easy getting over that person. A lot of you who may have experienced it should know better, if not then I dont blame you for being salty over what happened, but what Subaru did was pretty realistic for me, I actually give props to the dude, he didnt take advantage of Rem's feelings to him and played her, most guys out there would play someone if they knew that she had a thing for him. This episode truly gave that character development Subaru needed, despite my hate for long talks and rants this was very much needed for him. Now next episode we begin, From Zero, Natsuki Subaru Starting life in another world! next ep cant come faster! |
  |
| wiping this episode from my memory. subaru is trash. |
| meow |
| Such a nice, heartwarming episode~ Subaru is who he is because of Emilia (plus the return from death). Rem loved him because he loves Emilia. Some kind of sad reality, huh. Now if only we had two hearts.. save some of those feelings for Rem, will ya? ...or maybe pull a Nisekoi I especially loved the OST in this episode. Voting 5 out of 5 in the Poll results to an error. Let my feelings be heard too </3 |
ronpdeeJul 31, 2016 11:22 PM
 |
| imma build a wall of text and make mal pay for it |
| Right now it just seems to be going in circles, which is tiresome after a while. Nothing wrong with a character falling back into bad habits after going up against a wall, the guy in the right in the GIF my last post had trouble with alcohol throughout the series, despite many things working out over the course of the series certain things still got to him. While I understand Subaru, the writer is pushing it too much to where it feels forced and has felt that way for the better part of the series thus far. |
| In my opinion: I don’t think that Rem x Subaru romantic relationship failure is reason enough to drop or rate negative, in general, the series. He gave up and that’s why at first he wanted to run away with Rem, it seemed like the easiest way to end his suffering. But Rem helped change his mind and put him back on the right course. Emilia is in trouble, she is hated by most of the kingdom and other people want to kill her. It is natural that Subaru wants to save her, she has helped him from the beginning, healed his wounds and has certainly saved his life, as Rem has. Although still a good episode, it was a bit disappointing because it was too much talking, having a lot of story ahead to cover in a few episodes. I just hope this doesn’t have a rushed ending. |
| Rem best girl, waifu of 2016, not even debatable at this point, just too good |
| Subaru better switch to best girl as time goes on. On a side note, Subaru and Emilia really haven't had that much interaction in the anime when you think about it. It doesn't make much sense that he loves her that much. He's been with Rem much longer. He has saved Rem more. Rem has saved him more. I really don't understand his fixation with her. |
Stargorger said: You must love Game of Thrones. It's so GRITTY! So positively DRIPPING with realism! Really it's dripping with what you just described: vindictive, bitter spite and a desire to prove to people that 'there are no heroes. Life sucks. Everyone is evil. Etc. You want to read fantasy and be a hero? FUCK YOU!" Yup. We get it. I'm tired of it. Real life doesn't work that way. If you can't see it, I'm very sorry for you. But to the episode: Yup, that’s it I’m done watching. WHY you ask? Well before I give my reasons I need to give a bit of background/explanation, and I’m gonna start by saying: if you’re just going to reply to criticize, insult, etc…me or what I say, piss off, I don’t care. I’m never going to read this thread (seriously I’ve never in my years of using Myanimelist visited the forums and I’m only doing so now to offer some thoughts for people who might feel like I do. So keep the discussion civil so that other’s reading aren’t bored of your immaturity.) This is going to be a LONG post (tried to cover everything since I won't be back lol. Just food for thought). So. Why am I done watching? Is it because I’m disappointed that Rem/Subaru didn’t happen? Yes, in a VERY SMALL sense. But there’s a lot more to it and I’ll get to the real reasons below. First. What makes a good story? Classics are generally considered classics because they are timeless. How are they timeless? They communicate truths and realities that all people in all cultures can relate to in some way or another. Not to say that non-classics are less valuable, not at all. But that’s what makes a ‘good’ story good. The characters are TRUE. Relatable, realistic, and reflect REALITY. What about fantasy? I mean, it’s a fantasy right? Nope. Fantasy is great because while it IS an escape, and can explore new lands, ideas, and people, it is still grounded in reality. The more alien a fantasy is, the less we can even comprehend it, much less sympathize with or care about the characters. The human people at least must be realistically human. Unfortunately, fantasy has been going through a rebellious phase lately. In the last 10 years or so, all those authors who grew up reading light fluffy high fantasy like Tolkien and McDonald (I’m being sarcastic) decided “fuck that shit! Life isn’t happy! Life SUCKS! And I’m going to make sure EVERYONE KNOWS IT SUCKS!” And so they did! They decided to right realistic, gritty, ‘dark’ fantasy. Where the heroes aren’t impervious to danger, bad things happen, etc etc. Because that’s how real life is right? RIGHT?! Well, no not really. And here’s the background for the first reason/problem. Deconstructions only work when they are communicating something new, and ONLY at that. Otherwise they must be Reconstructions. That is, you can’t just say ‘fuck swords! Swords are unrealistic, so there are no swords in this world!’ forever. You have to eventually REPLACE swords with something. “Instead they have…SPEARS! Spears are realistic!” Or better yet “BUT some people use them anyway because theyre SUCH GOOD WARRIORS!” Eventually, it has to come full circle. But sadly right now we’re still stuck in the rut. Go look at all of the most popular fantasy of any medium (games, shows, books, anime) and you will see that all true fantasy (IE, not Magical Girl or Magical Realism) is dark, gritty, ‘adult’ themed stuff. Thanks George RR Martin. >.< Which brings me to my reasons. Because they’re the same reasons I stopped reading Game of Thrones. “But wait stargorger, why did you watch 18 episodes before quitting if you REALLY didn’t like it?!” Well, because honestly I love Japanese media and so I was hoping that Re: Zero’s author would pull a REALLY unexpected trick and go AGAINST the grain. Nope. Silly me. 1. It is so dark and realistic that it is unrealistic. This is kind of an overall critique. It alone wouldn’t make me stop watching/reading. But this is the root of the main problem(s). What do I mean by this? I mean the characters are such ASSHOLES, the monsters are so DEADLY and impervious to damage, the city is so CORRUPT, etc…that it’s RIDICULOUS. Remember my background of what makes good writing? Relatability and realism. And in order to be realistic, something has to speak to a truth that people can relate to in their daily lives. I’m sorry, but unless you are a child soldier living in Sudan, MOST people can’t really relate to this kind of darkness/grittiness. I have NEVER in my LIFE met so many assholes and just general bastards as seem to exist in modern fantasy worlds. Including Re: Zero. It’s dark and the characters are flawed to the point of being ridiculous. I’m sorry, but the reality (which authors seem to have forgotten, living in their dark little shacks under bridges or wherever), is that most REAL people are nice, normal folks. They act kindly towards strangers, or at least politely, they don’t want to hurt or kill anyone, and you won’t get raped/mugged/stabbed just walking down the street. Again, except in extreme circumstances. But somehow I doubt the author was writing specifically for those Sudanese child soldiers O.o Specifically in this episode: WTF with Puck? He’s going to destroy the world because Emilia died? Uh…ok. That’s really forced. Emilia’s been in trouble/dead/etc… before and suddenly the author pulls this out of his hat. *shrug* ok, he’s a spirit. What the hell. Sure. And are there really sadistic people like the Cultists? Sure. But Roswaal? Dude’s a creepy as fuck insane killer for no discernable reason, flies off the handle at the drop of a hat…have YOU ever met someone like that? If you have I suggest you call the cops or move to a safer country. Have we all met gruff asshole vendors like the apple-shop guy? Sure. But is that the ONLY type, or even the majority? No. So why pick him? Just to be dark and gritty. It’s too forced. Life is TOO miserable, too dark. I at least can’t relate to it. Which brings me to my next point. 2. …and it isn’t unrealistic enough. Especially when it comes to the characters. Subaru is the Everyman. So he’s supposed to be the character we cheer for, sympathize with, judge, and see reflections of ourselves in. But WTF, is everyone else a friggin alien? Subaru seems surrounded by absolute monsters and general selfish dickwads. I mean if everyone in this fantasy world is so distrusting, so ready to stab you if they don’t like the look of YOUR EYES, well damn Subaru, you’re screwed. And more specifically with interactions, and Subaru’s interactions. And here’s the main reason I’m done. Remember how even fantasy needs to be somewhat relatable? Reading the alien gibberish of a talking banana plant may be amusing for a few minutes but if we can’t understand or relate we won’t care. I have spent the entirety of this show trying desperately to determine WHAT THE FUCK is wrong with Subaru. And no, I don’t mean “he’s such a dick!” I mean, everyone ELSE seems to think he is. Why? The author is clearly trying to get across some point (or I sure hope he is). But I can’t comprehend it at all. And I’m pretty sure it’s not cultural…I lived in Japan for a couple years and have asked my Japanese friends to explain the show…they don’t get it either. One moment he’s being stabbed (punished by the hand of fate? Random chance? WHY?) when he goes to save Emilia, the next minute…he’s saving a bunch of random villagers? Why did THAT work out? So many questions. In some ways, yes, that is realistic. It mirrors the reality that sometimes life doesn’t make sense. I guess? But the problem is this: Fantasy is NOT realism. It must be realisTIC, but it is not realisM. In order for fantasy to be different from scifi, magical realism, etc…it has ALSO offer something more. Most people would say ‘an escape’. I prefer to say ‘an ideal’. Fantasy has to present some kind of idealization or ‘dream’ to strive for. In Re: Zero we know so little about the world and other characters that, clearly, that ‘escape’ can only come in the form of Subaru and what he does/experiences. He has to get better, become a hero, etc. And yay, this episode ends with him promising to do just that! But he isn’t, really. Because he’s so ‘realistic’ as to maintain this crucial character flaw that I’m tired of watching. It’s just unpleasant and emotionally draining. And what is that? Reason 3: 3. The writer’s ‘goal’ for Subaru is ‘selfishness’. Through all the episodes leading to now (I just finally realized it this episode), the author has been trying to deconstruct and build Subaru into a certain type of character. All the while he takes potshots at certain personality traits or cultural problems he deems problematic. All well and good. But remember #2? Fantasy has to go beyond pure realism and give us something to hope/strive for. In Re: Zero it’s Subaru. Except nobody should WANT to strive to be like him. Why? Well, because unless you’re blind, or selfish, or just stupid, you can see that Subaru’s behavior is destructive both to himself and to others, and he can’t get past it. At the root of it all is: Subaru is selfish. He’s too selfish. I don’t mean “he cares about himself”. I mean “he cares too little about others”. “Oh but wait he’s a hero! He loves Emilia! He saved Rem etc etc”. Yup. Yup that’s true. And WHY does he do/want those things? For himself. And this is why I said it is yes, partially because of the end of Rem/Subaru. It’s not that they aren’t together. It’s not that there’s no harem. It’s not that he turned her down. It’s that THAT was the author’s chance. That was the opportunity to NOT go down the Game of Thrones path. But nope. He skipped it. Subaru missed the chance. Because he’s selfish. He’s going to ‘be true to himself’ (oh fucking goody) and ‘tell it like it is’ and ‘be straight with her’ that he only ‘loves Emilia’. That’s bullshit. He doesn’t love Emilia. That’s a construct the author’s decided to force because he wants it that way. But really, NOTHING has occurred between Subaru and Emilia to create a love bond. Did he ‘love her at first sight’? Sure. But that’s not the same thing as true love. Sorry. And here I guess I’m getting into my own beliefs. A crush can lead to love. Infatuation can lead to love. Admiration, desire, lust, protection…those can all be part of and lead to love. But TRUE love is selfless. True love is willing to love even when it’s hard, even when the other person doesn’t love you back. And this episode DOES have true love. Rem clearly, truly loves Subaru. And if your heart doesn’t break for her, you’re either a child or a soulless monster. Nobody should have to go through the pain of unrequited true love. But Rem does. Why? Because Subaru is SELFISH. Fuck he’s so selfish I want to jump through the screen and stab him myself. I seriously hope he dies in the end. But nope, because the author will continue to steamroll his way towards the conclusion he wants without trying to get out of the rut. Subaru has been through hell and back. He’s died over and over. Trying to save MANY people (NOT just Emilia. In fact I’d kind of forgotten about her until the end of last episode). And all that time, Rem has been there. First suspicious (gets back to my first point…she’s fucking MURDERS HIM because he’s ‘SUSPICIOUS’?! Are you kidding me? So unrealistic. No person on earth does that normally.), and then lovingly. She’s there supporting and caring for him, especially in these last 5 episodes. What does Subaru do? Ignore her. Blindly continue on, selfishly, trying to make things work the way HE wants so he can have WHO he wants (Emilia). And at this point it’s really just ‘want’ because he knows absolutely nothing about her. Dude’s known her for a whole week at this point. Good for him. He’s hardly been with her for half that time. Most of the time he’s trying to save her (seriously dude, maybe she is SUPPOSED to die?) or being with Rem. If Subaru can hear Rem’s words, have that realization about what he’s gone through, stop being arrogant and realize his flaws and finite-ness, and STILL selfishly throw Rem aside to go woo Emilia…I’m sorry, but I hope they both choke and die. Rem’s going to remain brokenhearted so Subaru can get what he wants (without even knowing if it will work out). Is that being ‘true’ to himself? Yup. Sure is. And many many people on earth do that and act that way. Is it wrong? I dunno. It’s certainly realistic. But, and here’s my point again… It’s TOO REALISTIC. So realistic as to be un-swallowable. Sorry. That’s too bitter a pill for me to swallow. I’ve made mistakes like that in my past. I don’t relax on the couch watching anime to relive them. Fantasy needs to go beyond reality and provide an ideal and escape. Subaru has flatly failed. Which means the show has failed as a true fantasy. It’s now just ‘dark fantasy’. Ok fine. Not what I want to watch. My experience in life has been that there ARE real heroes. People really do behave selflessly, and it DOES have good effects. There are 'good guys' even in the midst of wars, murderers generally suffer horribly and then die, and most folks are nice normal people who want to be happy and want others to be happy. Seeing as stuff like Re: Zero seems so dead-set on destroying those happy ideas, I'm done. While I personally don't see Subaru turning down Rem as selfish or have a distaste for "dark fantasy" I do agree with pretty much all of analysis of the show. |
| 20 minutes of the MC yelling and Rem pouring her heart our on why she loves him to only get rejected... FUCK SUBARU! The ost was super nice tho. |
  |
Kittens-kun said: I seriously don't get all the hate towards Subaru. We've known for awhile that Subaru has no romantic feelings for Rem. Hell even Rem herself knew that. I think it was way better for him to say outright that he loves Emilia, then to string Rem along, letting her believe that maybe she had a chance. he is an ass, not every shut-in neet in the world like that and he didn't even learn or thinking before doing things. he can go back to try again but didn't think straight about what he have to do. also hating subaru =/= hating the show, just in case. |
| 期待しているよ、私のサリアだって、嘘ばっかり! でもねアンジュ、あんたがいなくなれば、私の方が強いってわかれば, それができるなら、何もいらない! |
| I hope this is the last subaru ranting. |
| "Watch your back, shoot straight, conserve ammo, and never, EVER cut a deal with a dragon." |
Red_Ranger_Wien said: Stargorger said: You must love Game of Thrones. It's so GRITTY! So positively DRIPPING with realism! Really it's dripping with what you just described: vindictive, bitter spite and a desire to prove to people that 'there are no heroes. Life sucks. Everyone is evil. Etc. You want to read fantasy and be a hero? FUCK YOU!" Yup. We get it. I'm tired of it. Real life doesn't work that way. If you can't see it, I'm very sorry for you. But to the episode: Yup, that’s it I’m done watching. WHY you ask? Well before I give my reasons I need to give a bit of background/explanation, and I’m gonna start by saying: if you’re just going to reply to criticize, insult, etc…me or what I say, piss off, I don’t care. I’m never going to read this thread (seriously I’ve never in my years of using Myanimelist visited the forums and I’m only doing so now to offer some thoughts for people who might feel like I do. So keep the discussion civil so that other’s reading aren’t bored of your immaturity.) This is going to be a LONG post (tried to cover everything since I won't be back lol. Just food for thought). So. Why am I done watching? Is it because I’m disappointed that Rem/Subaru didn’t happen? Yes, in a VERY SMALL sense. But there’s a lot more to it and I’ll get to the real reasons below. First. What makes a good story? Classics are generally considered classics because they are timeless. How are they timeless? They communicate truths and realities that all people in all cultures can relate to in some way or another. Not to say that non-classics are less valuable, not at all. But that’s what makes a ‘good’ story good. The characters are TRUE. Relatable, realistic, and reflect REALITY. What about fantasy? I mean, it’s a fantasy right? Nope. Fantasy is great because while it IS an escape, and can explore new lands, ideas, and people, it is still grounded in reality. The more alien a fantasy is, the less we can even comprehend it, much less sympathize with or care about the characters. The human people at least must be realistically human. Unfortunately, fantasy has been going through a rebellious phase lately. In the last 10 years or so, all those authors who grew up reading light fluffy high fantasy like Tolkien and McDonald (I’m being sarcastic) decided “fuck that shit! Life isn’t happy! Life SUCKS! And I’m going to make sure EVERYONE KNOWS IT SUCKS!” And so they did! They decided to right realistic, gritty, ‘dark’ fantasy. Where the heroes aren’t impervious to danger, bad things happen, etc etc. Because that’s how real life is right? RIGHT?! Well, no not really. And here’s the background for the first reason/problem. Deconstructions only work when they are communicating something new, and ONLY at that. Otherwise they must be Reconstructions. That is, you can’t just say ‘fuck swords! Swords are unrealistic, so there are no swords in this world!’ forever. You have to eventually REPLACE swords with something. “Instead they have…SPEARS! Spears are realistic!” Or better yet “BUT some people use them anyway because theyre SUCH GOOD WARRIORS!” Eventually, it has to come full circle. But sadly right now we’re still stuck in the rut. Go look at all of the most popular fantasy of any medium (games, shows, books, anime) and you will see that all true fantasy (IE, not Magical Girl or Magical Realism) is dark, gritty, ‘adult’ themed stuff. Thanks George RR Martin. >.< Which brings me to my reasons. Because they’re the same reasons I stopped reading Game of Thrones. “But wait stargorger, why did you watch 18 episodes before quitting if you REALLY didn’t like it?!” Well, because honestly I love Japanese media and so I was hoping that Re: Zero’s author would pull a REALLY unexpected trick and go AGAINST the grain. Nope. Silly me. 1. It is so dark and realistic that it is unrealistic. This is kind of an overall critique. It alone wouldn’t make me stop watching/reading. But this is the root of the main problem(s). What do I mean by this? I mean the characters are such ASSHOLES, the monsters are so DEADLY and impervious to damage, the city is so CORRUPT, etc…that it’s RIDICULOUS. Remember my background of what makes good writing? Relatability and realism. And in order to be realistic, something has to speak to a truth that people can relate to in their daily lives. I’m sorry, but unless you are a child soldier living in Sudan, MOST people can’t really relate to this kind of darkness/grittiness. I have NEVER in my LIFE met so many assholes and just general bastards as seem to exist in modern fantasy worlds. Including Re: Zero. It’s dark and the characters are flawed to the point of being ridiculous. I’m sorry, but the reality (which authors seem to have forgotten, living in their dark little shacks under bridges or wherever), is that most REAL people are nice, normal folks. They act kindly towards strangers, or at least politely, they don’t want to hurt or kill anyone, and you won’t get raped/mugged/stabbed just walking down the street. Again, except in extreme circumstances. But somehow I doubt the author was writing specifically for those Sudanese child soldiers O.o Specifically in this episode: WTF with Puck? He’s going to destroy the world because Emilia died? Uh…ok. That’s really forced. Emilia’s been in trouble/dead/etc… before and suddenly the author pulls this out of his hat. *shrug* ok, he’s a spirit. What the hell. Sure. And are there really sadistic people like the Cultists? Sure. But Roswaal? Dude’s a creepy as fuck insane killer for no discernable reason, flies off the handle at the drop of a hat…have YOU ever met someone like that? If you have I suggest you call the cops or move to a safer country. Have we all met gruff asshole vendors like the apple-shop guy? Sure. But is that the ONLY type, or even the majority? No. So why pick him? Just to be dark and gritty. It’s too forced. Life is TOO miserable, too dark. I at least can’t relate to it. Which brings me to my next point. 2. …and it isn’t unrealistic enough. Especially when it comes to the characters. Subaru is the Everyman. So he’s supposed to be the character we cheer for, sympathize with, judge, and see reflections of ourselves in. But WTF, is everyone else a friggin alien? Subaru seems surrounded by absolute monsters and general selfish dickwads. I mean if everyone in this fantasy world is so distrusting, so ready to stab you if they don’t like the look of YOUR EYES, well damn Subaru, you’re screwed. And more specifically with interactions, and Subaru’s interactions. And here’s the main reason I’m done. Remember how even fantasy needs to be somewhat relatable? Reading the alien gibberish of a talking banana plant may be amusing for a few minutes but if we can’t understand or relate we won’t care. I have spent the entirety of this show trying desperately to determine WHAT THE FUCK is wrong with Subaru. And no, I don’t mean “he’s such a dick!” I mean, everyone ELSE seems to think he is. Why? The author is clearly trying to get across some point (or I sure hope he is). But I can’t comprehend it at all. And I’m pretty sure it’s not cultural…I lived in Japan for a couple years and have asked my Japanese friends to explain the show…they don’t get it either. One moment he’s being stabbed (punished by the hand of fate? Random chance? WHY?) when he goes to save Emilia, the next minute…he’s saving a bunch of random villagers? Why did THAT work out? So many questions. In some ways, yes, that is realistic. It mirrors the reality that sometimes life doesn’t make sense. I guess? But the problem is this: Fantasy is NOT realism. It must be realisTIC, but it is not realisM. In order for fantasy to be different from scifi, magical realism, etc…it has ALSO offer something more. Most people would say ‘an escape’. I prefer to say ‘an ideal’. Fantasy has to present some kind of idealization or ‘dream’ to strive for. In Re: Zero we know so little about the world and other characters that, clearly, that ‘escape’ can only come in the form of Subaru and what he does/experiences. He has to get better, become a hero, etc. And yay, this episode ends with him promising to do just that! But he isn’t, really. Because he’s so ‘realistic’ as to maintain this crucial character flaw that I’m tired of watching. It’s just unpleasant and emotionally draining. And what is that? Reason 3: 3. The writer’s ‘goal’ for Subaru is ‘selfishness’. Through all the episodes leading to now (I just finally realized it this episode), the author has been trying to deconstruct and build Subaru into a certain type of character. All the while he takes potshots at certain personality traits or cultural problems he deems problematic. All well and good. But remember #2? Fantasy has to go beyond pure realism and give us something to hope/strive for. In Re: Zero it’s Subaru. Except nobody should WANT to strive to be like him. Why? Well, because unless you’re blind, or selfish, or just stupid, you can see that Subaru’s behavior is destructive both to himself and to others, and he can’t get past it. At the root of it all is: Subaru is selfish. He’s too selfish. I don’t mean “he cares about himself”. I mean “he cares too little about others”. “Oh but wait he’s a hero! He loves Emilia! He saved Rem etc etc”. Yup. Yup that’s true. And WHY does he do/want those things? For himself. And this is why I said it is yes, partially because of the end of Rem/Subaru. It’s not that they aren’t together. It’s not that there’s no harem. It’s not that he turned her down. It’s that THAT was the author’s chance. That was the opportunity to NOT go down the Game of Thrones path. But nope. He skipped it. Subaru missed the chance. Because he’s selfish. He’s going to ‘be true to himself’ (oh fucking goody) and ‘tell it like it is’ and ‘be straight with her’ that he only ‘loves Emilia’. That’s bullshit. He doesn’t love Emilia. That’s a construct the author’s decided to force because he wants it that way. But really, NOTHING has occurred between Subaru and Emilia to create a love bond. Did he ‘love her at first sight’? Sure. But that’s not the same thing as true love. Sorry. And here I guess I’m getting into my own beliefs. A crush can lead to love. Infatuation can lead to love. Admiration, desire, lust, protection…those can all be part of and lead to love. But TRUE love is selfless. True love is willing to love even when it’s hard, even when the other person doesn’t love you back. And this episode DOES have true love. Rem clearly, truly loves Subaru. And if your heart doesn’t break for her, you’re either a child or a soulless monster. Nobody should have to go through the pain of unrequited true love. But Rem does. Why? Because Subaru is SELFISH. Fuck he’s so selfish I want to jump through the screen and stab him myself. I seriously hope he dies in the end. But nope, because the author will continue to steamroll his way towards the conclusion he wants without trying to get out of the rut. Subaru has been through hell and back. He’s died over and over. Trying to save MANY people (NOT just Emilia. In fact I’d kind of forgotten about her until the end of last episode). And all that time, Rem has been there. First suspicious (gets back to my first point…she’s fucking MURDERS HIM because he’s ‘SUSPICIOUS’?! Are you kidding me? So unrealistic. No person on earth does that normally.), and then lovingly. She’s there supporting and caring for him, especially in these last 5 episodes. What does Subaru do? Ignore her. Blindly continue on, selfishly, trying to make things work the way HE wants so he can have WHO he wants (Emilia). And at this point it’s really just ‘want’ because he knows absolutely nothing about her. Dude’s known her for a whole week at this point. Good for him. He’s hardly been with her for half that time. Most of the time he’s trying to save her (seriously dude, maybe she is SUPPOSED to die?) or being with Rem. If Subaru can hear Rem’s words, have that realization about what he’s gone through, stop being arrogant and realize his flaws and finite-ness, and STILL selfishly throw Rem aside to go woo Emilia…I’m sorry, but I hope they both choke and die. Rem’s going to remain brokenhearted so Subaru can get what he wants (without even knowing if it will work out). Is that being ‘true’ to himself? Yup. Sure is. And many many people on earth do that and act that way. Is it wrong? I dunno. It’s certainly realistic. But, and here’s my point again… It’s TOO REALISTIC. So realistic as to be un-swallowable. Sorry. That’s too bitter a pill for me to swallow. I’ve made mistakes like that in my past. I don’t relax on the couch watching anime to relive them. Fantasy needs to go beyond reality and provide an ideal and escape. Subaru has flatly failed. Which means the show has failed as a true fantasy. It’s now just ‘dark fantasy’. Ok fine. Not what I want to watch. My experience in life has been that there ARE real heroes. People really do behave selflessly, and it DOES have good effects. There are 'good guys' even in the midst of wars, murderers generally suffer horribly and then die, and most folks are nice normal people who want to be happy and want others to be happy. Seeing as stuff like Re: Zero seems so dead-set on destroying those happy ideas, I'm done. While I personally don't see Subaru turning down Rem as selfish or have a distaste for "dark fantasy" I do agree with pretty much all of analysis of the show. Same here. Author's not brilliant for inverting reward and punishment here. Nothing wrong with idealism every once in a while nor throwing in some "reality" also. Right now RE: Zero is a bit to obsessed with trying to be as gritty as possible. While Sub's despair as he put it was pretty relateable as he described it in this episode it screwed it up with that "I'm going to be a hero" shit. Sure, I'm glad he chose not to give up on everything and try to find a way past all the BS he's going through but after 18 episodes and a big runaround it felt very "eh". We've seen this before in this very show as it is, we've seen this in the medium as it is as well. It puts a "twist" on things but really nothing new, which, I guess is unfair since many story elements from famous works can be swapped out to convey the same story. With that said I feel pretty 50/50 on whether this will even get a second season and honestly don't really care as it is for some reason. |
| He turned her down??? What a frigging moron!!! Ugh!!!! |
 |
on 
| The episode was decent (the dialogue was great, the imagery of birds and the insert song were excessive though, so the very long part where Rem explains him about their radiant what if), but I disagree completely with the anti otaku commentary. I get the point. I really get it. "Subaru is a neet and because of this he is a filthy and shitty person that does everything because of his own egoism". Well, it fails flat. And that's because no matter how much people call him a piece of shit, he is put in a situation in which him being an otaku is completely irrelevant. Most of us will be broken after a couple more tortures, especially knowing that the situation you are in will most likely end up with your death unless you act in a mostly perfect way. That's why at the beginning of arc 3 I was baffled by his behaviour: "Would the person that willingly sacrificed himself and had to endure all of that suffering in the mansion (and in arc 1 if I can add) in order to achieve the best outcome for everyone be a retarded and self-cendered asshole like he was in the castle?". And my answer has always been a resounding no, the story failed completely in making me believe that Subaru was such a piece of shit and that broke my suspension of disbelief a lot because he started acting like a completely different person. It's easy to say that he was either in ptsd or something else but I do believe that the autor wanted to move a point, regardless of how nonsensical it was. Maybe he just wanted me to hate the poor dude. Re:Zero is great entertainment. It really is. But when it comes to structure is a complete mess. The story is non existant (there's basically no plot excluding a vague mystery regarding the Witch but the plotline has never been really explored because Subaru is always written either in full retard "Emilia-tan!!!!" mode or in a scenario in which he has more pressing matters (aka non being slaughtered)), the motivations too simple ("Return home? That's boring, I like my isekai more!") and the message is a mess ("He acts like a normal numan being. But also remember, he's an otaku subhuman piece of shit"). As for now, Subaru is not the useless dude he thinks he is. He's a person that truly tried his best (as for they "why" he did so, seeking happiness for himself while also giving happiness to others should be praised, not condemned). Rem didn't reinforce any of his neet fantasies, she told him the truth, and that's the truth regardless of what motivations Subaru had. And what pains me is that I'm absolutely sure that before the end the author will give me some strange plot twist where it turns out Subaru is a completely different person that he seems to be, just to give me one final "fuck off" moment. |
Stargorger said: My experience in life has been that there ARE real heroes. People really do behave selflessly, and it DOES have good effects. There are 'good guys' even in the midst of wars, murderers generally suffer horribly and then die, and most folks are nice normal people who want to be happy and want others to be happy. Seeing as stuff like Re: Zero seems so dead-set on destroying those happy ideas, I'm done. A show that spoon-feeds the mundane theme of "not giving up" even if you are worthless is escapism and you should feel bad for your useless comparison to game of thrones which is also plain escapism. Just because cruel things happen in a story doesn't make it any less "escapism." Cruel things tend to happen so the characters can resolve them, so you have a proper image of right and wrong and can for cheer someone to succeed. I didn't read your entire thing, because you apparently only have 1 post, so this for anyone else. All art is escapism. |
| Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines. |
| Interesting episode, this dialogues are very emotive. |
 |
| Good episode, the very nice thing in this episode was the realization of Subaru, how he is so dumb, weak, pathetic, big-mouth talker, those things happened because he is involved. So glad there's Rem who makes him realized that he can just start from zero, her unconditional love for Subaru, is so surprising. |
 |
| Maan fuck Subaru. I don't understand how he just rejects Rem and is still going for Emilia. I thought he was beginning to like her after she died in the cave. Shit makes no god damn sense. Maybe he thinks she looks ugly as fuck or something. They need to draw Rem ugly and make her look like a troll so I can understand why he rejected her. Because right now it's just clearly being bad writing. |
ALL ABOARD!  Nice episode was nice. Some great development happened, but the talking could have been cut down a little. Overall a solid episode. |
"Hurry up with my damn croissants." |
| So the white whale is Gluttony, huh? Man, I wanted to see some Unlimited Puck Works, but white fox disappoints me ;_;. And that Pucks "You are truly Slothful!" was so true that it was just too cruel... Great episode, Subaru finally realizes his faults and how Rem takes him back on track was just mind blowing..... So let's , Zero Kara Hajime..... ゼロから始め。。。。。。。 Great times to be an harem fan :3 |
 |
Freya_Magna said: this is from rezero facebook fanpage im new on mal so i think i cant start thread like this without breaking some rules. so yeah, food for thoughts .. If ANY character from Nisekoi knows what it feels like it def isn't onodera. Onodera is pretty much emilia. If anyone would know, it would be Marika |
| There haven't been even five minutes from the episode and Subaru's already shouting. |
| Subaru: ok i hate myself rem: I love you so much you’re the best person ever I love everything about you and I will help you through this in anyway I can Subaru: well ok but I love emilia |
 |
More topics from this board
Poll: » Re:Zero kara Hajimeru Isekai Seikatsu Episode 11 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page )Stark700 - Jun 12, 2016 |
723 |
by ayakavcisi
»»
Yesterday, 6:03 AM |
|
Poll: » Re:Zero kara Hajimeru Isekai Seikatsu Episode 10 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page )Stark700 - Jun 5, 2016 |
365 |
by ayakavcisi
»»
Yesterday, 6:02 AM |
|
Poll: » Re:Zero kara Hajimeru Isekai Seikatsu Episode 9 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page )Stark700 - May 29, 2016 |
727 |
by ayakavcisi
»»
Yesterday, 6:01 AM |
|
Poll: » Re:Zero kara Hajimeru Isekai Seikatsu Episode 7 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page )Stark700 - May 15, 2016 |
1097 |
by ayakavcisi
»»
Yesterday, 5:58 AM |
|
Poll: » Re:Zero kara Hajimeru Isekai Seikatsu Episode 6 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page )Stark700 - May 8, 2016 |
534 |
by ayakavcisi
»»
Yesterday, 5:55 AM |