AltoRoark said: TheBrainintheJar said: It generally describes an anime that relies on shock value of violence and gore. These anime will focus less on story and characters, and instead try to shock you with how horrible people are. Parasyte and BTOOOM! are prime examples. There's in general a lack of tonal shifts. The anime is focused on how horrible life is most of the way, but it's never deep pessimistic exploration. It's just "Huh, life is pretty bad". Parasyte doesn't do this. It never attempts to make the parasytes hateable through their actions. The gore aspect is stylistic. Nothing more. People die left and right and Shinichi grieves generically. By the 100th character death and people screaming in pain I got bored. RainyRai said: Now it basically means "anything that tries to be dark and mature and fails at it.", so just look at Tokyo Ghoul or Attack on Titan. TheBrainintheJar said: It generally describes an anime that relies on shock value of violence and gore. These anime will focus less on story and characters, and instead try to shock you with how horrible people are. Parasyte and BTOOOM! are prime examples. There's in general a lack of tonal shifts. The anime is focused on how horrible life is most of the way, but it's never deep pessimistic exploration. It's just "Huh, life is pretty bad". "Focus less on the story and characters and try to shock with how horrible people are." Parasyte is literally Shinichi's development as a character as he regresses and progresses in terms of humanity from episode 5 onwards, so I don't know how that "doesn't focus on the characters." Parasyte also has a big tone shift once that character arc starts. It also doesn't really try to bring the morality of people into question all the time(it does happen but not nearly enough to fit your example, it's more of the emotionless parasitic monsters that are considered bad). I found Shinichi to be a personality-less sex bomb who never reacts to the environment in an interesting way. He always sad or happy but that's it. |
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TheBrainintheJar said: AltoRoark said: Parasyte doesn't do this. It never attempts to make the parasytes hateable through their actions. The gore aspect is stylistic. Nothing more. People die left and right and Shinichi grieves generically. By the 100th character death and people screaming in pain I got bored. RainyRai said: Now it basically means "anything that tries to be dark and mature and fails at it.", so just look at Tokyo Ghoul or Attack on Titan. "Focus less on the story and characters and try to shock with how horrible people are." Parasyte is literally Shinichi's development as a character as he regresses and progresses in terms of humanity from episode 5 onwards, so I don't know how that "doesn't focus on the characters." Parasyte also has a big tone shift once that character arc starts. It also doesn't really try to bring the morality of people into question all the time(it does happen but not nearly enough to fit your example, it's more of the emotionless parasitic monsters that are considered bad). I found Shinichi to be a personality-less sex bomb who never reacts to the environment in an interesting way. He always sad or happy but that's it. Shinichi does not grieve for every character that dies(many of them die in areas where Shinichi hasn't or never visited) because they are part of the series use of gore and horror. In the entire military fiasco Shinichi doesn't grieve for any of the characters that die, he's more focused on Gotou. Did you forget the entire part where Shinichi and struggles trying to retain his own humanity with and starts having reactions just like a parasite would multiple times. |
| every single one of my forum posts is dumb and invalid except for 1, I don't claim them it was a different person it was all fake |
Paul said: On MAL, I always thought it was something along the lines of 'dark', excessively bloody and violent shows that are often aimed at angsty teenagers. The more death the more edgy. So wouldn't this imply that a very large amount of the anime geared towards the shounen demographic are edgy? This is kind of where I am getting confused. I always thought that angsty and edgy were practically interchangeable words - now we are saying that edgy nearly almost implies violence purely for shock factor while angsty still holds it's dictionary definition, of literally being on edge or having anxiety? |
Rose_BombMay 24, 2016 5:35 AM
| It means to be Fate Zero .Or AoT .Or Tokyo Ghoul . |
| Wohooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo |
| @TheBrainintheJar Did you forget about Shinichi's inability to convey proper human emotions? "People screaming in pain"? Were we watching the same series? |
Enishi- said: Paul said: On MAL, I always thought it was something along the lines of 'dark', excessively bloody and violent shows that are often aimed at angsty teenagers. The more death the more edgy. So wouldn't this imply that a very large amount of the anime geared towards the shounen demographic are edgy? This is kind of where I am getting confused. I always thought that angsty and edgy were practically interchangeable words - now we are saying that edgy nearly almost implies violence purely for shock factor while angsty still holds it's dictionary definition, of literally being on edge or having anxiety? That's how I've always seen it used on MAL, never said it was correct. While it may seem more likely to be shounen shows, it's only so because of the amount of shounen adaptions to begin with. |
| Edgy can either mean a true masterpiece like Fate/Zero or the Shittest of the Shit bloody and gory anime like Attack on Titan |
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RainyRai said: TheBrainintheJar said: People die left and right and Shinichi grieves generically. By the 100th character death and people screaming in pain I got bored. I found Shinichi to be a personality-less sex bomb who never reacts to the environment in an interesting way. He always sad or happy but that's it. Shinichi does not grieve for every character that dies(many of them die in areas where Shinichi hasn't or never visited) because they are part of the series use of gore and horror. In the entire military fiasco Shinichi doesn't grieve for any of the characters that die, he's more focused on Gotou. Did you forget the entire part where Shinichi and struggles trying to retain his own humanity with and starts having reactions just like a parasite would multiple times. This change doesn't inform us about Shinichi's personality. He had no personality that could change beyond generic Nice Compassionate Dude. |
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TheBrainintheJar said: RainyRai said: Shinichi does not grieve for every character that dies(many of them die in areas where Shinichi hasn't or never visited) because they are part of the series use of gore and horror. In the entire military fiasco Shinichi doesn't grieve for any of the characters that die, he's more focused on Gotou. Did you forget the entire part where Shinichi and struggles trying to retain his own humanity with and starts having reactions just like a parasite would multiple times. This change doesn't inform us about Shinichi's personality. He had no personality that could change beyond generic Nice Compassionate Dude. As far as I remember, this change wasn't entirely physical, considering he was able to shed tears after which was the first time he saw a Parasyte behave humanly. I'd also like to mention how all the main deaths witnessed hold weight. The first gives Shinichi's a motive, the second intensifies his conflict, and the third gives him development. No edginess here. |
| Its only edgy if Urobuchi directed it. |
AltoRoark said: TheBrainintheJar said: This change doesn't inform us about Shinichi's personality. He had no personality that could change beyond generic Nice Compassionate Dude. As far as I remember, this change wasn't entirely physical, considering he was able to shed tears after which was the first time he saw a Parasyte behave humanly. I'd also like to mention how all the main deaths witnessed hold weight. The first gives Shinichi's a motive, the second intensifies his conflict, and the third gives him development. No edginess here. Killing a character to give a motive means bad character development. It means the character has no inner drive and only reacts to external events. What's Shinichi initial personality? My problem with him is that, overall, his personality is too general and non-distinct. He had no unique way of reacting to things, of containing grief. He just felt bad over it. |
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TheBrainintheJar said: Killing a character to give a motive means bad character development. It means the character has no inner drive and only reacts to external events. What's Shinichi initial personality? My problem with him is that, overall, his personality is too general and non-distinct. He had no unique way of reacting to things, of containing grief. He just felt bad over it. Yeah, and chances are he would've keep like that if it wasn't for parasytes. Migi is also there as deuteragonist, so you could consider both of them the "protagonist force" of the show. There's also the fun fact that the manga started in 1985, in a time where manly shows where a thing. I think this kind of MC was a novelty back then, but I'd love to see if I'm wrong. Do try the manga if you have the spare time. |
 It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; What is essential is invisible to the eye.But does the heart have the right perspective? |
| It means that if you are not careful, you may end up cutting yourself. |
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| Hellsing Ultimate deserve to be called edgy no plot + only blood = Shit |
 |
TheBrainintheJar said: AltoRoark said: As far as I remember, this change wasn't entirely physical, considering he was able to shed tears after which was the first time he saw a Parasyte behave humanly. I'd also like to mention how all the main deaths witnessed hold weight. The first gives Shinichi's a motive, the second intensifies his conflict, and the third gives him development. No edginess here. Killing a character to give a motive means bad character development. It means the character has no inner drive and only reacts to external events. What's Shinichi initial personality? My problem with him is that, overall, his personality is too general and non-distinct. He had no unique way of reacting to things, of containing grief. He just felt bad over it. He never needed to have an inner drive. The whole show is focused on his and Migi's coexistence, and how they compare and contrast in reaction to events. He doesn't need any greater characterization than this. |
AltoRoark said: TheBrainintheJar said: Killing a character to give a motive means bad character development. It means the character has no inner drive and only reacts to external events. What's Shinichi initial personality? My problem with him is that, overall, his personality is too general and non-distinct. He had no unique way of reacting to things, of containing grief. He just felt bad over it. He never needed to have an inner drive. The whole show is focused on his and Migi's coexistence, and how they compare and contrast in reaction to events. He doesn't need any greater characterization than this. A character without an inner drive is unrealistic. People have personalities, wants and needs. Creators need to remember this and show this. A character who only reacts is unrealistic and boring. His and Migi's co-existence would've been interesting if Shinichi had more to him than generic moral hero. KoreaWS said: TheBrainintheJar said: Killing a character to give a motive means bad character development. It means the character has no inner drive and only reacts to external events. What's Shinichi initial personality? My problem with him is that, overall, his personality is too general and non-distinct. He had no unique way of reacting to things, of containing grief. He just felt bad over it. Yeah, and chances are he would've keep like that if it wasn't for parasytes. Migi is also there as deuteragonist, so you could consider both of them the "protagonist force" of the show. There's also the fun fact that the manga started in 1985, in a time where manly shows where a thing. I think this kind of MC was a novelty back then, but I'd love to see if I'm wrong. Do try the manga if you have the spare time. In order for Shinichi to be a novelty, he needs a personality. He barely fits an archetype. Again, he only reacts to stuff. I know the manga is old but the anime is one of the worst things I've ever seen. I don't want to experience more. |
TheBrainintheJarMay 26, 2016 12:46 AM
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| When people see violence and gore, or anything that would normally be disturbing, in anime and don't like it. |
| “Humankind cannot gain anything without first giving something in return. To obtain, something of equal value must be lost. That is alchemy's first law of Equivalent Exchange. In those days, we really believed that to be the world's one, and only, truth. But the world isn't perfect, and the law is incomplete..." -Alphonse Elric "Then and now, what I protect has never changed!" -Sakata Gintoki I'll take anything like The Pet Girl of Sakurasou. Anything as good as that. |
TheBrainintheJar said: AltoRoark said: He never needed to have an inner drive. The whole show is focused on his and Migi's coexistence, and how they compare and contrast in reaction to events. He doesn't need any greater characterization than this. A character without an inner drive is unrealistic. People have personalities, wants and needs. Creators need to remember this and show this. A character who only reacts is unrealistic and boring. His and Migi's co-existence would've been interesting if Shinichi had more to him than generic moral hero. Well, there's his wanting to protect Murano from harm's way. That counts as an inner drive, right? |
TheBrainintheJar said: In order for Shinichi to be a novelty, he needs a personality. He barely fits an archetype. Again, he only reacts to stuff. I know the manga is old but the anime is one of the worst things I've ever seen. I don't want to experience more. But you are not putting the original story in perspective. In 1985 I don't see many manga that deals with a shy teenager forced to deal with the supernatural. I agree that for today standards he looks generic. |
| It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; What is essential is invisible to the eye. But does the heart have the right perspective? |
AltoRoark said: TheBrainintheJar said: A character without an inner drive is unrealistic. People have personalities, wants and needs. Creators need to remember this and show this. A character who only reacts is unrealistic and boring. His and Migi's co-existence would've been interesting if Shinichi had more to him than generic moral hero. Well, there's his wanting to protect Murano from harm's way. That counts as an inner drive, right? That's an act. A drive is something in the personality that leads to an action. The act of protecting Murano doesn't tell me anything. Shinichi wants to protect his loved ones, but who doesn't? KoreaWS said: TheBrainintheJar said: In order for Shinichi to be a novelty, he needs a personality. He barely fits an archetype. Again, he only reacts to stuff. I know the manga is old but the anime is one of the worst things I've ever seen. I don't want to experience more. But you are not putting the original story in perspective. In 1985 I don't see many manga that deals with a shy teenager forced to deal with the supernatural. I agree that for today standards he looks generic. I don't care about 1985 ("BUT SHE'S STILL PRE-OCCUPIED/WITH 1985!"). Life goes on and plenty of old stuff still looks great. What can't keep up falls by the wayside. |
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TheBrainintheJar said: DaSnip Just dropping by to testify I'm using ye olde "BUT THE CONTEXT MAAN" card when I shouldn't. |
| It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; What is essential is invisible to the eye. But does the heart have the right perspective? |
KoreaWS said: TheBrainintheJar said: DaSnip Just dropping by to testify I'm using ye olde "BUT THE CONTEXT MAAN" card when I shouldn't. I didn't use this card. You did. I do not nothing context always justifies bad stories. The time of creation is interesting, but an anime must stand the test of time. Or maybe I simply got you wrong. |
| WEAPONS - My blog, for reviews of music, anime, books, and other things |
| "Edgy" is a term with negative connotation describing an anime that values shock value (in the form of stuff like gore, character death, sexual themes like rape and incest) over actually putting work into the plot and characterization. Not really rocket science. There are some people though who think that throwing the term "edgy" around constitutes some form of criticism though - and by itself, it doesn't. You have to present a good argument for why something values shock value over the actual integrity of the story. |
TheBrainintheJar said: That's an act. A drive is something in the personality that leads to an action. The act of protecting Murano doesn't tell me anything. Shinichi wants to protect his loved ones, but who doesn't? Well, that's kind of the idea. Shinichi isn't supposed to be unique. He's only there to differentiate ethically from Migi. |
| Except, you know, there was a plot in Ultimate. |
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Snappynator said: Except, you know, there was a plot in Ultimate. i watched only 3 ep and then i dropped it the author has no idea how to write an intelligible story and he has a really shitty sense of humor |
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TheBrainintheJar said: KoreaWS said: Just dropping by to testify I'm using ye olde "BUT THE CONTEXT MAAN" card when I shouldn't. I didn't use this card. You did. I do not nothing context always justifies bad stories. The time of creation is interesting, but an anime must stand the test of time. Or maybe I simply got you wrong. I declared and used the card. You didn't. Hope the misunderstandment didn't soured the moment. |
| It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; What is essential is invisible to the eye. But does the heart have the right perspective? |
tragedydesu said: Snappynator said: Except, you know, there was a plot in Ultimate. i watched only 3 ep and then i dropped it the author has no idea how to write an intelligible story and he has a really shitty sense of humor The entire appeal of Hellsing Ultimate is its over-the-top violence and over-the-top animation and over-the-top characters and...I guess what I'm trying to say is, people like Hellsing Ultimate because it does everything over-the-top. And I'm okay with that. I'll probably never finish it because it doesn't really speak to me, but being over-the-top is fine by me. |
 This glorious signature image was created by @Mayumi! I am the Arbiter of Absolute Truth, and here is my wisdom: "Anime was always influenced by the West. This is not news. Shoujo is the superior genre primarily aimed at young people. Harem/isekai are lazy genres that refuse any meaningful innovation. There is no 'Golden Age.' There will always be top-shelf anime. You should be watching Carole & Tuesday." |
KoreaWS said: TheBrainintheJar said: I didn't use this card. You did. I do not nothing context always justifies bad stories. The time of creation is interesting, but an anime must stand the test of time. Or maybe I simply got you wrong. I declared and used the card. You didn't. Hope the misunderstandment didn't soured the moment. Okay then, that clears things up. Have a nice day and a cookie of your choice! |
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AltoRoark said: TheBrainintheJar said: That's an act. A drive is something in the personality that leads to an action. The act of protecting Murano doesn't tell me anything. Shinichi wants to protect his loved ones, but who doesn't? Well, that's kind of the idea. Shinichi isn't supposed to be unique. He's only there to differentiate ethically from Migi. Then this is poor writing that shoots the series in the foot, in the hand and in the spleen. |
| WEAPONS - My blog, for reviews of music, anime, books, and other things |
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