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Is Kill la Kill the single greatest example of why anime is not mainstream?

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Dec 8, 2013 12:57 AM

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I get the want of wanting anime to be mainstream, more people enjoying what you like, but is it really that important? I mean I get all the shows I want right now and have a lot of people to talk about it too, but online and RL.

KLK may be "ridiculous", "shitty", or "horrible" to some of you guys but I think it's incredibly enjoyable so who gives a shit.
 
Dec 8, 2013 1:00 AM

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NoSurrender1690 said:
its not the fact it to japanese i hate that excuase

anime wll never be mainstteam outisde of Japan cuase of lack of Prime time
lolno

I think anime will never be mainstream outside of Japan for the same reason that American Football will never be mainstream outside of America.

It is in the Japanese language. It is culturally Japanese. Anime is Japanese. It's just not something that will be able to become "mainstream" anywhere else.
 
Dec 8, 2013 1:07 AM
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anime is mainly made for japanese audiences, and Kill la Kill is just over the top battle shounen, its animation is wacky and frantic style that only few people likes
 
Dec 8, 2013 8:52 AM

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Reverb_Shock said:
[What? I meant the characters have no depth. They are not deep. They're dumb, one dimensional, and cliche. I'm not talking about the animation, unless I completely missed the point of your post.

There is a cliche about a fascist student-president who has established a fascist school with a hyper-focus on merit in some attempt to build an army of super-soldiers?

Methinks people need to learn what the word: "Cliche" means before they use it.




TallonKarrde23 said:
Kill la Kill is a shit anime - and saying it's "on purpose" doesn't make that any less true. It's a great example of why people think anime is bad, because it is objectively bad.

Kill la Kill is objectively better than Railgun.

God, but it's hard being the official storytelling expert sometimes, but damn it all, someone needs to be the guru and I'm the only man that has the qualifications.
Let's go bowling.
 
Dec 8, 2013 9:01 AM

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I can't understand why people would want anime to be mainstream.
It will just attract more haters and the like than we already have in the community.

Then again what defines "mainstream".
I'd say with millions of people watching anime around the earth it is already pretty popular (therefore mainstream?).

Unless something is only maintream when the media or highschool kids talk about it.
 
Dec 8, 2013 9:03 AM

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StopDropAndBowl said:
Reverb_Shock said:
[What? I meant the characters have no depth. They are not deep. They're dumb, one dimensional, and cliche. I'm not talking about the animation, unless I completely missed the point of your post.

There is a cliche about a fascist student-president who has established a fascist school with a hyper-focus on merit in some attempt to build an army of super-soldiers?

Methinks people need to learn what the word: "Cliche" means before they use it.




Satsuki fits the common dictator who thinks everyone below them are trash, and they have the specific people that follow them blindly.

I call it the Hitler cliche.
 
Dec 8, 2013 9:08 AM

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Reverb_Shock said:
StopDropAndBowl said:



Satsuki fits the common dictator who thinks everyone below them are trash, and they have the specific people that follow them blindly.

I call it the Hitler cliche.

But that, at best, is a trope; and as we all know tropes are not bad.

Even then though, Satsuki kind of fits in with a lot of different tropes. She's got layers, man. Like Shrek.
Let's go bowling.
 
Dec 8, 2013 9:12 AM

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StopDropAndBowl said:
Reverb_Shock said:
StopDropAndBowl said:
Reverb_Shock said:
What? I meant the characters have no depth. They are not deep. They're dumb, one dimensional, and cliche. I'm not talking about the animation, unless I completely missed the point of your post.

There is a cliche about a fascist student-president who has established a fascist school with a hyper-focus on merit in some attempt to build an army of super-soldiers?

Methinks people need to learn what the word: "Cliche" means before they use it.




Satsuki fits the common dictator who thinks everyone below them are trash, and they have the specific people that follow them blindly.

I call it the Hitler cliche.

But that, at best, is a trope; and as we all know tropes are not bad.

Even then thoguh, Satsuki kind of fits in with a lot of different tropes. She's got layers, man. Like Shrek.
I think this just means that we see the character differently. You see her as an awesome dictator who has more depth than a swimming pool, and I see her as a stupid, xenophobic, terribly cliched character who is the go to villain for a series that can't come up with a good one. To each his own.
 
Dec 8, 2013 10:59 AM
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Reverb_Shock said:
I think this just means that we see the character differently. You see her as an awesome dictator who has more depth than a swimming pool, and I see her as a stupid, xenophobic, terribly cliched character who is the go to villain for a series that can't come up with a good one. To each his own.


If you have trouble understanding the themes of the show and it's characters there is a dude that writes interesting notes about it on his blog. It's a bit messy but he really gets what it's all about.

http://geekorner.wordpress.com/episodic-observations/kill-la-kill-episodic-notes/kill-la-kill-episode-3-notes/
 
Dec 8, 2013 11:31 AM

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Reverb_Shock said:
StopDropAndBowl said:
Reverb_Shock said:
StopDropAndBowl said:
Reverb_Shock said:
What? I meant the characters have no depth. They are not deep. They're dumb, one dimensional, and cliche. I'm not talking about the animation, unless I completely missed the point of your post.

There is a cliche about a fascist student-president who has established a fascist school with a hyper-focus on merit in some attempt to build an army of super-soldiers?

Methinks people need to learn what the word: "Cliche" means before they use it.




Satsuki fits the common dictator who thinks everyone below them are trash, and they have the specific people that follow them blindly.

I call it the Hitler cliche.

But that, at best, is a trope; and as we all know tropes are not bad.

Even then thoguh, Satsuki kind of fits in with a lot of different tropes. She's got layers, man. Like Shrek.
I think this just means that we see the character differently. You see her as an awesome dictator who has more depth than a swimming pool, and I see her as a stupid, xenophobic, terribly cliched character who is the go to villain for a series that can't come up with a good one. To each his own.


you have highschool dxd as your favorite anime [..........]
calls kill la kill shit anime
makes sense
if anything highdxd is equally culpable of what is driving westerners away from anime

 
Dec 8, 2013 12:18 PM

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Zeally said:
Reverb_Shock said:
StopDropAndBowl said:
Reverb_Shock said:
StopDropAndBowl said:
Reverb_Shock said:
What? I meant the characters have no depth. They are not deep. They're dumb, one dimensional, and cliche. I'm not talking about the animation, unless I completely missed the point of your post.

There is a cliche about a fascist student-president who has established a fascist school with a hyper-focus on merit in some attempt to build an army of super-soldiers?

Methinks people need to learn what the word: "Cliche" means before they use it.




Satsuki fits the common dictator who thinks everyone below them are trash, and they have the specific people that follow them blindly.

I call it the Hitler cliche.

But that, at best, is a trope; and as we all know tropes are not bad.

Even then thoguh, Satsuki kind of fits in with a lot of different tropes. She's got layers, man. Like Shrek.
I think this just means that we see the character differently. You see her as an awesome dictator who has more depth than a swimming pool, and I see her as a stupid, xenophobic, terribly cliched character who is the go to villain for a series that can't come up with a good one. To each his own.


you have highschool dxd as your favorite anime [..........]
calls kill la kill shit anime
makes sense
if anything highdxd is equally culpable of what is driving westerners away from anime
Did you really steal the other guys joke from the other thread? Pitiful.
 
Dec 8, 2013 12:21 PM

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Reverb_Shock said:
Zeally said:
Reverb_Shock said:
StopDropAndBowl said:
Reverb_Shock said:
StopDropAndBowl said:
Reverb_Shock said:
What? I meant the characters have no depth. They are not deep. They're dumb, one dimensional, and cliche. I'm not talking about the animation, unless I completely missed the point of your post.

There is a cliche about a fascist student-president who has established a fascist school with a hyper-focus on merit in some attempt to build an army of super-soldiers?

Methinks people need to learn what the word: "Cliche" means before they use it.




Satsuki fits the common dictator who thinks everyone below them are trash, and they have the specific people that follow them blindly.

I call it the Hitler cliche.

But that, at best, is a trope; and as we all know tropes are not bad.

Even then thoguh, Satsuki kind of fits in with a lot of different tropes. She's got layers, man. Like Shrek.
I think this just means that we see the character differently. You see her as an awesome dictator who has more depth than a swimming pool, and I see her as a stupid, xenophobic, terribly cliched character who is the go to villain for a series that can't come up with a good one. To each his own.


you have highschool dxd as your favorite anime [..........]
calls kill la kill shit anime
makes sense
if anything highdxd is equally culpable of what is driving westerners away from anime
Did you really steal the other guys joke from the other thread? Pitiful.


No he made a great point that you are nothing but a contradicting troll
OHHH the irony it burns

 
Dec 8, 2013 12:31 PM

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Zeally said:
Reverb_Shock said:
Zeally said:
Reverb_Shock said:
StopDropAndBowl said:
Reverb_Shock said:
StopDropAndBowl said:
Reverb_Shock said:
What? I meant the characters have no depth. They are not deep. They're dumb, one dimensional, and cliche. I'm not talking about the animation, unless I completely missed the point of your post.

There is a cliche about a fascist student-president who has established a fascist school with a hyper-focus on merit in some attempt to build an army of super-soldiers?

Methinks people need to learn what the word: "Cliche" means before they use it.




Satsuki fits the common dictator who thinks everyone below them are trash, and they have the specific people that follow them blindly.

I call it the Hitler cliche.

But that, at best, is a trope; and as we all know tropes are not bad.

Even then thoguh, Satsuki kind of fits in with a lot of different tropes. She's got layers, man. Like Shrek.
I think this just means that we see the character differently. You see her as an awesome dictator who has more depth than a swimming pool, and I see her as a stupid, xenophobic, terribly cliched character who is the go to villain for a series that can't come up with a good one. To each his own.


you have highschool dxd as your favorite anime [..........]
calls kill la kill shit anime
makes sense
if anything highdxd is equally culpable of what is driving westerners away from anime
Did you really steal the other guys joke from the other thread? Pitiful.


No he made a great point that you are nothing but a contradicting troll
OHHH the irony it burns
My liking of DxD has nothing to do with me not liking Kill la Kill. They have nothing to do with each other, and my opinion can't be judged on that alone.

I haven't trolled anyone, and I'll argue the show with anyone who wants to. The only thing I see is a complete moron saying someone's opinion has no validity based on them liking a show you perceive as sub par.
 
Dec 8, 2013 12:31 PM
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Red_Keys said:
NoSurrender1690 said:
its not the fact it to japanese i hate that excuase

anime wll never be mainstteam outisde of Japan cuase of lack of Prime time
lolno

I think anime will never be mainstream outside of Japan for the same reason that American Football will never be mainstream outside of America.

It is in the Japanese language. It is culturally Japanese. Anime is Japanese. It's just not something that will be able to become "mainstream" anywhere else.

its possiable but us licensor have no will the make the prime time money it seams its not this anime nor that anime that will make anime main stream in the west[ like 2 blliion per year] sort of mainstrem but they do not market the product to non fans so no new blood to sell too

you sell to mainstream people look at conan was handeled in the us in compare to Japan it makes money in every way from ADs via tv ratings via Mulitmida cross over and so on

in Us it has nothing like that
"If you tremble with indignation at every injustice, then you are a comrade of mine"

When the union's inspiration through the workers' blood shall run
There can be no power greater anywhere beneath the sun
Yet what force on earth is weaker than the feeble strength of one
For the Union makes us strong
 
Dec 8, 2013 12:41 PM

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Zeally said:

No he made a great point that you are nothing but a contradicting troll
OHHH the irony it burns

That was really bad and
Reverb_Shock said:
Pitiful
 
Dec 8, 2013 1:02 PM
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Reverb_Shock said:
Takuan_Soho said:
By all means, lets hear what you and TallonKarrde23 as well the OP think is good animation. Hating is easy. Saying that the plot sucks is easy. So tell us, why does the plot, characters, and comedy of KLK suck.

Give us something more than the typical hater "if you don't understand why it sucks then there is no point in telling you" line. That doesn't make the person who says it cool, it just informs us that they are posers.

I'd tell you, but I don't think this is the place to discuss it. I think we'd be getting a bit off topic, but I'll just say that the characters are cliche cardboard cutouts and the plot is barely there in the first place. There's no depth at all. I guess if you want to get in a big discussion about it, you could message me or something.


First, you do realize that you just did a variation on the "there is no point in telling you" line.

Second, no it isn't off topic, the OP said this animation is why anime isn't mainstream in the US, you have supplied a reason why the OP is true, I am asking you to explain your reasons. That is perfectly keeping with the theme of the thread.

So again, please explain what is a good animation and why KLK does not qualify.
 
Dec 8, 2013 1:09 PM

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Takuan_Soho said:
Reverb_Shock said:
Takuan_Soho said:
By all means, lets hear what you and TallonKarrde23 as well the OP think is good animation. Hating is easy. Saying that the plot sucks is easy. So tell us, why does the plot, characters, and comedy of KLK suck.

Give us something more than the typical hater "if you don't understand why it sucks then there is no point in telling you" line. That doesn't make the person who says it cool, it just informs us that they are posers.

I'd tell you, but I don't think this is the place to discuss it. I think we'd be getting a bit off topic, but I'll just say that the characters are cliche cardboard cutouts and the plot is barely there in the first place. There's no depth at all. I guess if you want to get in a big discussion about it, you could message me or something.


First, you do realize that you just did a variation on the "there is no point in telling you" line.

Second, no it isn't off topic, the OP said this animation is why anime isn't mainstream in the US, you have supplied a reason why the OP is true, I am asking you to explain your reasons. That is perfectly keeping with the theme of the thread.

So again, please explain what is a good animation and why KLK does not qualify.
Proportions are shit, quality is all over the place, and I feel like I am watching looney toons. But I was never the one to say it had bad animation. My argument was bad characters and plot, which would be off topic.
 
Dec 9, 2013 3:26 PM

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Jesus guys, learn how to properly quote. deciphering who said what in your posts is like playing Cluedo against bots.
Too Old To Die Young


Aesthetic value can be recognized or experienced, but it cannot be conveyed to those who are incapable of grasping its sensations and perceptions. To quarrel on its behalf is always a blunder.
 
Dec 9, 2013 6:13 PM

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TallonKarrde23 said:
Negative-Travis said:
TallonKarrde23 said:
are you both seriously implying it would somehow be HAMPERED by proper and smoother animation? Because it's exactly what you are writing, I just hope you're saying it by mistake.
I'm saying it doesn't need to be 30FPS to be enjoyable. If you're really going to let the technical aspects of an anime bother you to the point of not enjoying it, you should probably stop watching anime for awhile.


I never once stated the show is bad due to the framerate, I said it's a negative aspect that you're saying is somehow irrelevant. It's not. While it's not "this show is bad because the animation is poor" - the fact of the matter is that "this is a bad aspect of the show".

This is a situation where, yes, you could say shitty animation is acceptable to you as long as the rest of the show is good. I'm not disagreeing because, as much as I hate to say this in any context, that's all just opinion. Fine.

However you're missing my point - which is that it's an objectively bad aspect of the series that you're defending by saying it 'doesn't matter'. What I'm asking you now is this: are you saying if the show was exactly as it is now BUT with better animation, would you like it LESS? You say it doesn't "need" 30fps to be enjoyable, fine, but wouldn't it benefit - even just a tiny bit - by being such? And hell, in the post above mine you just said low FPS is objectively bad animation, so you even agree with what I'm saying - which is confusing me more.

Essentially, you're treating it's faults as not faults at all simply because "they are good enough" and because you like it anyway.

I'm not saying the show is bad BECAUSE of the framerate - I'm saying the framerate is bad. If you read back to the earlier posts that lead to this discussion you'll see why it even came up. Someone said they love the 'outlandish animation', I was simply replying to that specific line. They were praising the animation, I was pointing out that the animation is objectively bad. I'm not trying to say the show is bad because of it (though I am implying at the same time that it could benefit from better animation).

I do not like the show for a LOT of reasons, the animation is just one of those reasons - and not a high up one nor one I even thought about when originally watching this show (so it's not a reason I dislike it really). The framerate did not take away from my enjoyment of the show, but it is a factually bad aspect of the series. Repeating it again - I was just responding to a post PRAISING the animation, not bringing up the FPS out of nowhere to whine about it.


Man, you don't know jack shit about animation. Animation doesn't need to be fluid to be good. I can tell you the animators working on kill la kill have more ability as animators then 90% of animators in the industry right now. The somewhat choppy animation totally fits the style of the show, it looks great and most importantly it's full of life. Like I just said animation isn't about how fluid the characters move, "timing" and "spacing" and "staging" are some of the principles of animation that kill la kill does better then most animes. Let's take fate/zero for example, as it's in you're top 5, you probably believe it has superior animation to KLK, I'd disagree. Characters in F/Z are unfortunately animated with little life or distinct personality. The fight in F/Z are pretty awesome, but KLK gets extra credit in that category as well for being really experimental with it's animation. This is coming from a guy who has been studying animation for the past 2 years at one of the best animation schools in north america.
 
Dec 9, 2013 7:46 PM

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I don't care if anime is mainstream or not, as long as I can enjoy anime myself, it really doesn't matter.
 
Dec 11, 2013 1:08 PM

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Panda2013 said:
Red_Keys said:
Panda2013 said:
lol chances are those jocks are anime fan themselves.
LOL

Yea, and chances are, Obama is a brony.


I said shounen fans not bronies xD. But who knows? Kanye west admitted he loves love hina xD
Off topic, I'm sorry what? Kanye likes Love Hina? If that's true, that's awesome... I'd love to have a discussion with him about Love Hina. :o
 
Dec 12, 2013 4:45 AM

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As far as I know (and I don't know much, really) anime is not mainstream in Japan, with the exception of super succesful shonen and long-running family/kids shows. So I don't really get OP's question.
 
Dec 12, 2013 4:48 AM

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HalibelTheEspada said:
Panda2013 said:
Red_Keys said:
Panda2013 said:
lol chances are those jocks are anime fan themselves.
LOL

Yea, and chances are, Obama is a brony.


I said shounen fans not bronies xD. But who knows? Kanye west admitted he loves love hina xD
Off topic, I'm sorry what? Kanye likes Love Hina? If that's true, that's awesome... I'd love to have a discussion with him about Love Hina. :o
kanye west like ergoe games, slice of life rom coms, shoujos, and is a die hard fan of akira even owning a real life sized replica of the bike from akira

none of this is a joke
http://1.media.dorkly.cvcdn.com/53/12/c737f8d9c4461ef781ca7c56f136b3b6.jpg

Immahnoob said:
Jizzy, I know you have no idea how to argue for shit,

tokiyashiro said:

Jizzy as you would call yourself because youre a dick The most butthurt award goes to you And clearly you havent watched that many shows thats why you cant determine if a show is unique or not Or maybe you're just a child who likes common stuffs where hero saves the day and guys gets all the girls. Sad taste you have there kid you came up to me in the first place making you look more like a kid who got slapped without me even knowing it and start crying about it to me

 
Dec 12, 2013 5:00 AM
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JizzyHitler said:
HalibelTheEspada said:
Panda2013 said:
Red_Keys said:
Panda2013 said:
lol chances are those jocks are anime fan themselves.
LOL

Yea, and chances are, Obama is a brony.


I said shounen fans not bronies xD. But who knows? Kanye west admitted he loves love hina xD
Off topic, I'm sorry what? Kanye likes Love Hina? If that's true, that's awesome... I'd love to have a discussion with him about Love Hina. :o
kanye west like ergoe games, slice of life rom coms, shoujos, and is a die hard fan of akira even owning a real life sized replica of the bike from akira

none of this is a joke
http://1.media.dorkly.cvcdn.com/53/12/c737f8d9c4461ef781ca7c56f136b3b6.jpg

Isn't Kanye West like a really mean thug?
 
Dec 12, 2013 7:50 AM

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DramaEnthusiast said:
JizzyHitler said:
HalibelTheEspada said:
Panda2013 said:
Red_Keys said:
Panda2013 said:
lol chances are those jocks are anime fan themselves.
LOL

Yea, and chances are, Obama is a brony.


I said shounen fans not bronies xD. But who knows? Kanye west admitted he loves love hina xD
Off topic, I'm sorry what? Kanye likes Love Hina? If that's true, that's awesome... I'd love to have a discussion with him about Love Hina. :o
kanye west like ergoe games, slice of life rom coms, shoujos, and is a die hard fan of akira even owning a real life sized replica of the bike from akira

none of this is a joke
http://1.media.dorkly.cvcdn.com/53/12/c737f8d9c4461ef781ca7c56f136b3b6.jpg

Isn't Kanye West like a really mean thug?
Lol, he's just a singer. Honestly I've never heard one of his songs, I just find it awesome that he likes Love Hina. Of course some people might say that he's a "mean thug" over a recent event where he grabbed a guy and told him to leave him alone, but I don't want to bring this subject even more off topic.
 
Dec 12, 2013 4:38 PM
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One anime cannot represent all anime. Anime isn't mainstream for a lot of different reasons.
 
Dec 12, 2013 7:42 PM
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Well, I don't know if anime is or no mainstream on the US, but at least you there have licensed show realeases on BD/DVD. Here in my country we only have shitty quality manga releases by 3 or 4 publishers.

Even recent shows are licensed on US. Shows that I never expected to see in the west like Hanagai, Baka to Test, Tasotome. Back here the unique show that still getting dubbed is Pokemon. Just recently, after several years of fast, we got an anime in the cinema, and is was DBZ:Battle of Gods. a movie from an old and popular franchise...
 
Dec 12, 2013 8:10 PM

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TallonKarrde23 said:
objectively bad.

Get a load of this guy
 
Dec 12, 2013 8:13 PM

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TallonKarrde23 said:
Kill la Kill is a shit anime - and saying it's "on purpose" doesn't make that any less true. It's a great example of why people think anime is bad, because it is objectively bad.
coming from the guy with railgun in his favs
 
Dec 12, 2013 8:38 PM

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SergioSource said:
TallonKarrde23 said:
objectively bad.

Get a load of this guy


Yeah I gave up taking him seriously.
Powerful eyebrows.
 
Dec 12, 2013 8:40 PM
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Nah it would probably still be good here, it's not really too japanese, all of imashi's works were very well received in the west
 
Dec 13, 2013 8:35 AM

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DramaEnthusiast said:
It's known Anime is not accepted in the West, especially North America, where liking anime will likely get you bullied or harassed by high school jocks. As a result, people interested or taking the genre seriously keep their interests to themselves.


I'm going to need to interrupt you here. I feel like you have a very limited view of the world. Or are 13. One of the two. You cannot group the population of an entire continent and you cannot decide the fate of every single person in that continent whom may like anime. When I was in school, nobody I knew of was bullied nor harassed for liking anime. Truth is, nobody gives a shit. It would take an extremely bored/disturbed person to care enough about what you watch on TV to the point of harassing you for it. Now, if some kid once told you "Naruto was stupid, that's just a part of life, not everyone is going to like what you do nor is the world rainbows and unicorns. Some of my peers would give me a weird look for wearing a shirt with a character on it at which point not a single care was given.

I never kept my interest to myself, and as a result of that, a majority of my friends have similar interests. I also have friends who do not agree with my interests. The point is respect. If someone gives you crap or disrespects you for liking anime, chances are they'd be doing the same if you didn't. It'd be because of your shoes or your hair or the way you sit on the toilet, whatever. So no, I do not agree that anime is not "accepted" throughout the west, it is accepted as anything else on TV or the internet. Like I said, maybe your young and will realize someday that in reality nobody gives a second of their life to care about what you watch. Especially in the U.S. The far east is another story.

In more recent years, there have been animated films (although still niche) that express anime in a more appealing light to American audiences like Wolf Children, and proves it can be ''mature'' or ''non weeaboo-like'' to their eyes.


The thing here is you're committing two mistakes.

1. You're comparing apples and oranges.

2. You're grouping everything together in one big clump and expecting it to be homogenous. It's not.

Think back to the 90's, and the large commercial boom of animes such as Pokemon and DBZ and the the like. Were those animes in any way "mature"? Not really. Were they a great hit both in the east and west? Yes. Why? Because they were good; they kids liked it, the kids begged mom and dad to buy useless toys from the shows, and the parents thought it was appropriate enough. An anime doesn't have to be a drawn rendition of Hamlet in order to be "appealing". At the same time, certain groups DIDN'T like Pokemon, particularly fundamentalists and the like who thought it had something to do with Darwinian Evolution. There's always going to be somebody that doesn't like something, doesn't particularly have to do with how "mature" it is and what the frame-rate is.

Now, here's where your mistake mostly is: anime is not some trademarked catchphrase representing a specific form of storytelling, nor art form, nor genre, nor anything else. All it is, is the Japanese word for animation. Nothing more. Now, to the world outside Japan, its animated shows have come to be grouped as "anime". but anime is like the word movie, or music. How would someone react if I said that "music is not mainstream because Skrillex is shitty and therefore nobody will ever like music"? They're going to tell me that Skrillex is only one artist of the thousands upon thousands of artists who compose music. Same with anime. Just because someone may not like KLK does not mean they will not like ANY anime. Each author, studio, mangaka, whatever has their own style. Just like anything else. You cannot watch KLK and pretend it to be like Wolf Children, because it is not. You cannot watch Wolf Children and pretend it to be like KLK because it is not. they're completely different genres, stories, have a completely different mood, by different studios, in a different scenario, a different target demographic, etc. etc. etc.

Kill la Kill however, throws all this out of the water, and is more or less, the ultimate example of why Anime is viewed in disdain in the West, and it does not care whatsoever about it's image or even tries to take itself seriously. It has fan-service at every turn, hilarious character designs that show no restraint, is so Japanese-like over the top bombastically insane, has a ridiculously outlandish plot, and as stated before, never attempts anything at maturity. It practically thrives off it's zany nature.


But that's how the show is. It's zany. It's fast paced, its random, its comedic, its smutty, its in your face. That's what makes it different from, say, Grave of the Fireflies. Crude humor, fanservice, crazy plots are not unique to Japan. The U.S. has equally weird shows and movies every single day. Have you flipped through a Netflix menu? Zombies vs Strippers? Sharknado? You think that stuff is any type of masterpiece? No. It's not, but people watch it because you know what, it's a cheap movie. Have you ever watched family guy? Do you think someone in Saudia Arabia or Jordan would appreciate its jokes? Probably not, they're obscene, gross, politically incorrect, etc. But Family Guy is not produced for a Saudi, it's produced for a middle aged American who got home from work and wants to laugh at a satire of his own culture. KLK is not produced for Americans, it's produced for Japanese. Some Japanese may like, and some may not, but the thing is culturally it has a lot of commentary on Japanese society, not American society, and its goal is not to become some sort of animation ambassador to the U.S. nor anywhere else.

While I do not mind myself (having given it a 10 off my current impressions), are you disappointed at how Kill la Kill exemplifies why Anime is not accepted as a mainstream art form? It completely sabotages the reputation some other anime have been trying to mold lately.


No. Because this one show does not define the whole animation industry of a nation. Whoever judges every single show to come from Japan because they saw KLK or because they saw K-On! or Wolf Children is being close-minded. They are judging a gigantic group of things with one member, there's nothing you can do about that. Anime is as "mainstream" an art form as any other. The other day I saw a YT video about some woman who stick yarn up her vagina and sews things with that same yarn in Australia. She's gotten awards and crap becuase it is the most artistic thing ever. Art is subjective, and to say that any art is mainstream is illogical, I could think my little sister's refrigerator drawing could be art and my neighbor could think its crap.








Point of this post: to each their own.
 
Dec 13, 2013 11:56 PM

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I don't really think it has to be here, in the West, for it to be mainstream. I did not read this whole thread but just the TC's but I don't agree that anime isn't popular here because of its maturity and unrealistic character/plot designs. We can look at Disney/Pixar stuff for example and how their stories/characters are just as unrealistic and the stuff are also not really mature but they are really popular here. I think it is just a culture thing where anime is super popular in Japan because it's in their culture while, in the West, we perceive their culture with a different set of lenses.

Doesn't this make you hungry?
 
Dec 14, 2013 12:10 AM

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Why are animes not mainstream? Look at you in the mirror.
日本人はイッちゃってるよ
あいつら未来に生きてんな
 
Dec 14, 2013 6:16 AM

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WyattEarp said:
TallonKarrde23 said:
Negative-Travis said:
TallonKarrde23 said:
are you both seriously implying it would somehow be HAMPERED by proper and smoother animation? Because it's exactly what you are writing, I just hope you're saying it by mistake.
I'm saying it doesn't need to be 30FPS to be enjoyable. If you're really going to let the technical aspects of an anime bother you to the point of not enjoying it, you should probably stop watching anime for awhile.


I never once stated the show is bad due to the framerate, I said it's a negative aspect that you're saying is somehow irrelevant. It's not. While it's not "this show is bad because the animation is poor" - the fact of the matter is that "this is a bad aspect of the show".

This is a situation where, yes, you could say shitty animation is acceptable to you as long as the rest of the show is good. I'm not disagreeing because, as much as I hate to say this in any context, that's all just opinion. Fine.

However you're missing my point - which is that it's an objectively bad aspect of the series that you're defending by saying it 'doesn't matter'. What I'm asking you now is this: are you saying if the show was exactly as it is now BUT with better animation, would you like it LESS? You say it doesn't "need" 30fps to be enjoyable, fine, but wouldn't it benefit - even just a tiny bit - by being such? And hell, in the post above mine you just said low FPS is objectively bad animation, so you even agree with what I'm saying - which is confusing me more.

Essentially, you're treating it's faults as not faults at all simply because "they are good enough" and because you like it anyway.

I'm not saying the show is bad BECAUSE of the framerate - I'm saying the framerate is bad. If you read back to the earlier posts that lead to this discussion you'll see why it even came up. Someone said they love the 'outlandish animation', I was simply replying to that specific line. They were praising the animation, I was pointing out that the animation is objectively bad. I'm not trying to say the show is bad because of it (though I am implying at the same time that it could benefit from better animation).

I do not like the show for a LOT of reasons, the animation is just one of those reasons - and not a high up one nor one I even thought about when originally watching this show (so it's not a reason I dislike it really). The framerate did not take away from my enjoyment of the show, but it is a factually bad aspect of the series. Repeating it again - I was just responding to a post PRAISING the animation, not bringing up the FPS out of nowhere to whine about it.


Man, you don't know jack shit about animation. Animation doesn't need to be fluid to be good. I can tell you the animators working on kill la kill have more ability as animators then 90% of animators in the industry right now. The somewhat choppy animation totally fits the style of the show, it looks great and most importantly it's full of life. Like I just said animation isn't about how fluid the characters move, "timing" and "spacing" and "staging" are some of the principles of animation that kill la kill does better then most animes. Let's take fate/zero for example, as it's in you're top 5, you probably believe it has superior animation to KLK, I'd disagree. Characters in F/Z are unfortunately animated with little life or distinct personality. The fight in F/Z are pretty awesome, but KLK gets extra credit in that category as well for being really experimental with it's animation. This is coming from a guy who has been studying animation for the past 2 years at one of the best animation schools in north america.


I have to disagree with you

F/Z has personality and "life", if you at least read the novel, they did great thing putting some details from there in the animation, like the 3d for Berserker, which was said in the novel to be a "alien" like appearance when using For Someone's Glory, and the 3d animation expressed that very well.
there are lot more implicities in the animation like that, and respected the Nasuverse very well(and the tragic/heroic theme), so i think you lack more information about what was shown there.
 
Dec 14, 2013 5:37 PM

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TallonKarrde23 said:
Kill la Kill is a shit anime - and saying it's "on purpose" doesn't make that any less true. It's a great example of why people think anime is bad, because it is objectively bad.


All this hate... coming from toaru kagaku no railgun fanboy x)
Why am I not surprised?
 
Dec 14, 2013 9:17 PM
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Kinda depressing to see people equating frames per second with the "quality" of animation. Good solid drawings and poses will always be better than a bunch of heavily inbetweened trash.
 
Dec 14, 2013 10:00 PM

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jickets said:
Kinda depressing to see people equating frames per second with the "quality" of animation. Good solid drawings and poses will always be better than a bunch of heavily inbetweened trash.


The simple-minded individuals who roam the forums are the reason why I rarely ever post here.
So long as you yourself enjoy it, what does the thoughts of others matter to you?
 
Dec 18, 2013 8:42 PM

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KLK's animation is pretty atrocious. There's no way around that, and it's not just the frame rate. The show is almost nothing but stills and pans, even the fights are mostly stills with shaky cam and speedlines, or animation looped over and over again to pad out the episode. They recycle animation even more than is normal for anime, not just the stock footage during fights but several other things as well. The tweening is blatant and cheap and so is the CG. It's gotten so bad that even the next episode previews look ugly and cheap. They can't even string together 15 seconds of cool footage for an episode preview, let alone an entire episode, let alone a 2 cour show.

It has a nice art style and cute showa anime trappings but it's dishonest and biased to say that it doesn't have bad animation.
 
Dec 18, 2013 10:08 PM
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TallonKarrde23 said:
Zeally said:


OH LET ME CORRECT MYSELF I LIKE THE ANIMATION STYLE

DERP


The animation style would still be dealing with what I stated.

You like the art and art style - not the animation or 'animation style', unless you're saying you like the 10FPS that I mentioned earlier. Which is fine, but you made it pretty clear that was NOT what you were saying you liked when you first replied.

And for both you and mr."its fun" - are you both seriously implying it would somehow be HAMPERED by proper and smoother animation? Because it's exactly what you are writing, I just hope you're saying it by mistake. You're free to like the show, but stop pretending every fault with it is 'on purpose' and somehow a positive aspect.

So, let me get this straight.

You're bashing the shit out of Kill la Kill's choppy animation, which is often used in a creative way to enhance the comedy...

Yet fucking Railgun is a 10/10 and one of your top 5 favorites? That show isn't exactly an animation powerhouse either. In fact, it's both pretty choppy and pretty bland artistically. KLK has a unique art-style and occasionally great animation during the action scenes. The frame-rate is nowhere NEAR as low as you're saying it is, btdubs.

But hey, what should I expect from someone who listed "PEOPLE WHO LIKE A SHOW THAT I DON'T LIKE" as one of the worst anime trends of the year and constantly trolls the show's forums because he simply doesn't like it? God, you're such a neckbeard.
 
Dec 19, 2013 3:52 AM
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What's the point of this?
 
Dec 19, 2013 3:55 AM

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kawaiijetty said:
What's the point of this?


Internet experts are having some intelligent debate.
日本人はイッちゃってるよ
あいつら未来に生きてんな
 
Dec 20, 2013 12:33 AM
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Shouldn't the greatest example of why anime is not mainstream in the West be the Monogatari series? I can never imagine the toothbrush scene appearing on Toonami, the backlash over it will be ridiculous.
 
Dec 20, 2013 6:55 AM

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I always felt the biggest reason anime was not mainstream in the US was because it's not American.

Might just be me though.
 
Dec 24, 2013 11:14 AM
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Reverb_Shock said:
Takuan_Soho said:
Reverb_Shock said:
Takuan_Soho said:
By all means, lets hear what you and TallonKarrde23 as well the OP think is good animation. Hating is easy. Saying that the plot sucks is easy. So tell us, why does the plot, characters, and comedy of KLK suck.

Give us something more than the typical hater "if you don't understand why it sucks then there is no point in telling you" line. That doesn't make the person who says it cool, it just informs us that they are posers.

I'd tell you, but I don't think this is the place to discuss it. I think we'd be getting a bit off topic, but I'll just say that the characters are cliche cardboard cutouts and the plot is barely there in the first place. There's no depth at all. I guess if you want to get in a big discussion about it, you could message me or something.


First, you do realize that you just did a variation on the "there is no point in telling you" line.

Second, no it isn't off topic, the OP said this animation is why anime isn't mainstream in the US, you have supplied a reason why the OP is true, I am asking you to explain your reasons. That is perfectly keeping with the theme of the thread.

So again, please explain what is a good animation and why KLK does not qualify.
Proportions are shit, quality is all over the place, and I feel like I am watching looney toons. But I was never the one to say it had bad animation. My argument was bad characters and plot, which would be off topic.

>unironically listing looney tunes as an example of bad animation
hahahahahahahahahaha
 
Dec 26, 2013 6:53 AM

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brakesforturtles said:
I always felt the biggest reason anime was not mainstream in the US was because it's not American.

Might just be me though.


Pretty much. Americans are pretty provincial about their entertainment. Though I also wonder how popular Western animation is in Japan.
 
Dec 26, 2013 9:33 PM

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This is squarely for the OP.

Part of anime's charm is that it is not mainstream. Would it be nice to talk about anime like Game Of Thrones with people at work or on the train ride home? Maybe. Today I heard my coworkers arguing that a pickle is a different vegetable than a cucumber...trying to have a deep meaning conversation about the impact of technology referenced in Serial Experiments Lain, or themes of 1984 in Kill La Kill, with said people would not be my idea of a good time.

Places like MAL do make it easier to connect with people on shows we like, dislike and down right hate (naturally our tastes differ that is what makes it fun/interesting). If you want to have a meaningful discussion feel free to hit me up ^_^

Now to go get the OST (My God Sawano is a beast!)
Modified by Zer010, Dec 26, 2013 9:42 PM
 
Dec 26, 2013 9:36 PM

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DawnJ said:
kawaiijetty said:
What's the point of this?


Internet experts are having some intelligent debate.


LMFAO
 
Dec 26, 2013 11:36 PM

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DramaEnthusiast said:
where liking anime will likely get you bullied or harassed by high school jocks.


That a tone of bullshit really. If you have the right personality then you can like fucking anime and no one will bully you. It's just because usually it seems many introverts that attract bullies are also into anime. It's not what you like don't like etc, is how you portray yourself. If you are sparkling with confidence and don't take shit from no one then you can like whatever the fuck imaginable and people will think it's cool with you.

Although i really don't get why bullies will know whether you like watching anime or not, for them to know it means you are already a little nerdy going around talking about anime to people who aren't into it or having stupid anime things with you.
 
Dec 28, 2013 10:17 AM
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DramaEnthusiast said:
It's known Anime is not accepted in the West, especially North America, where liking anime will likely get you bullied or harassed by high school jocks.


Do you wanna know who is the most badass jock who happens to be a legit nerd?

http://fightland.vice.com/fightland-meets/josh-barnett

http://guycodeblog.mtv.com/2013/07/23/josh-barnett-interview/

FYI Josh Barnett is a former UFC heavyweight champion.
Modified by ravagestorm, Dec 28, 2013 10:26 AM
 
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