Kill la Kill
| Kill la Kill is a shit anime - and saying it's "on purpose" doesn't make that any less true. It's a great example of why people think anime is bad, because it is objectively bad. |
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| I don't know why but i just don't want Anime to be mainstream. |
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| Who the fuck cares? Kill La Kill is great. |
ibrahim2712 said: This is the only correct answer.Who the fuck cares? It's a drawing, kids. Stop taking shit so seriously. |
| I'm dead. Don't come looking for me. |
| no...... there are worse out there kill la kill isn't even up there high school of the dead kiss xsis seikon no qwaser true the plot is pretty mediocre but i love the outlandish animation and the ADHD pace of the anime. really i think it was the authors intent to do everything over the top. |
Zeally said: i love the outlandish animation You mean the ~10 frames per second animation? That's not outlandish - that's some of the worst the industry has ever seen. So, no, actually it is outlandish, but not in any way you could spin to be positive. |
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| Why should anime have to go mainstream for it to be good? I see no reason. And this post will attract all the trolls and haters here, I do not like this... |
| Powerful eyebrows. |
TallonKarrde23 said: Zeally said: i love the outlandish animation You mean the ~10 frames per second animation? That's not outlandish - that's some of the worst the industry has ever seen. Once again, who the fuck cares? There's this thing that used to exist that kinda died out in the early '00s. It was called "fun". Trigger is trying to bring back "fun" with KLK but it's clear some people want it to stay dead. |
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Negative-Travis said: TallonKarrde23 said: Zeally said: i love the outlandish animation You mean the ~10 frames per second animation? That's not outlandish - that's some of the worst the industry has ever seen. Once again, who the fuck cares? There's this thing that used to exist that kinda died out in the early '00s. It was called "fun". Trigger is trying to bring back "fun" with KLK but it's clear some people want it to stay dead. Yeah, they had to have that horrible animation to make the show fun. You're right, bro. Just like a video game has to have shitty graphics to have a good story and good gameplay. Sorry I mentioned a factual issue with the show because clearly objective facts don't matter to fans of shows. I've been around long enough to know that's the case, I shoulda known better. The best part is, maybe not you, but most people who defend the show with bullshit like that are the same people who attack other shows for the same fucking things. And I have to agree with the guy below - saying Kill la Kill is 'bringing fun back' is just being silly. You can't pretend this is the first fun anime in ages just because you personally have not felt that way about anything for awhile. Rather - you can't use 'its fun' as some kind of defensive positive point about it, as you could state that about ANY show. |
TallonKarrde23Dec 7, 2013 1:07 PM
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Negative-Travis said: You can have fun watching any anime and it doesn't need Kill la Kill to bring "fun back to anime". One big lol at that.TallonKarrde23 said: Zeally said: i love the outlandish animation You mean the ~10 frames per second animation? That's not outlandish - that's some of the worst the industry has ever seen. Once again, who the fuck cares? There's this thing that used to exist that kinda died out in the early '00s. It was called "fun". Trigger is trying to bring back "fun" with KLK but it's clear some people want it to stay dead. |
| Time is money, but money won't turn back the clock. |
TallonKarrde23 said: Zeally said: i love the outlandish animation You mean the ~10 frames per second animation? That's not outlandish - that's some of the worst the industry has ever seen. So, no, actually it is outlandish, but not in any way you could spin to be positive. Sorry i don't judge animation quality with how much fps it has i love how some of the character designs are all ridiculous looking. It's a Japanese throwback of Ren and Stimpy. The whole anime is pretty chaotic which is the only appealing point for me. FYI I absolutely hate ecchi. |
Zeally said: TallonKarrde23 said: Zeally said: i love the outlandish animation You mean the ~10 frames per second animation? That's not outlandish - that's some of the worst the industry has ever seen. So, no, actually it is outlandish, but not in any way you could spin to be positive. Sorry i don't judge animation quality with how much fps it has i love how some of the character designs are all ridiculous looking. It's a Japanese throwback of Ren and Stimpy Sorry, but you don't understand what "animation" is as a component of an anime if that's the case. You're talking about the art and artstyle perhaps, as "animation" is about the ACTUAL ANIMATION. And animation has a lot to do with framerate because animation is the act of that art in movement. And movement is hampered when you are only seeing every nth frame. Hell, that's all animation is - the smoothness and way the still frames are put into one fluid moving video. You can't say you don't judge animation based on animation, which is what you're doing. |
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TallonKarrde23 said: Zeally said: TallonKarrde23 said: Zeally said: i love the outlandish animation You mean the ~10 frames per second animation? That's not outlandish - that's some of the worst the industry has ever seen. So, no, actually it is outlandish, but not in any way you could spin to be positive. Sorry i don't judge animation quality with how much fps it has i love how some of the character designs are all ridiculous looking. It's a Japanese throwback of Ren and Stimpy Sorry, but you don't understand what "animation" is as a component of an anime if that's the case. You're talking about the art and artstyle perhaps, as "animation" is about the ACTUAL ANIMATION. And animation has a lot to do with framerate because animation is the act of that art in movement. And movement is hampered when you are only seeing every nth frame. Hell, that's all animation is - the smoothness and way the still frames are put into one fluid moving video. You can't say you don't judge animation based on animation, which is what you're doing. OH LET ME CORRECT MYSELF I LIKE THE ANIMATION STYLE DERP |
Zeally said: OH LET ME CORRECT MYSELF I LIKE THE ANIMATION STYLE DERP The animation style would still be dealing with what I stated. You like the art and art style - not the animation or 'animation style', unless you're saying you like the 10FPS that I mentioned earlier. Which is fine, but you made it pretty clear that was NOT what you were saying you liked when you first replied. And for both you and mr."its fun" - are you both seriously implying it would somehow be HAMPERED by proper and smoother animation? Because it's exactly what you are writing, I just hope you're saying it by mistake. You're free to like the show, but stop pretending every fault with it is 'on purpose' and somehow a positive aspect. |
TallonKarrde23Dec 7, 2013 1:27 PM
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TallonKarrde23 said: Hey, that wouldn't make it so "edgy", "creative" and "old-schooly". And that's probably one of the main reasons they like this show I guess. Because it's not cancer (moe) or anything like that and reminds them of older times in anime history. How was that saying again? "Kill la Kill saves anime from cancer"? Or something like that...And for both you and mr."its fun" - are you both seriously implying it would somehow be HAMPERED by proper and smoother animation? Because it's exactly what you are writing, I just hope you're saying it by mistake. |
| Time is money, but money won't turn back the clock. |
Panda2013 said: LOLlol chances are those jocks are anime fan themselves. Yea, and chances are, Obama is a brony. |
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TallonKarrde23 said: I'm saying it doesn't need to be 30FPS to be enjoyable. If you're really going to let the technical aspects of an anime bother you to the point of not enjoying it, you should probably stop watching anime for awhile.are you both seriously implying it would somehow be HAMPERED by proper and smoother animation? Because it's exactly what you are writing, I just hope you're saying it by mistake. Panda2013 said: Indeed.And I doubt the anime films you mentioned were made to express anime in a more appealing light. Some things just catch on here while others don't. Take The Big O for example. It was a horrible flop in Japan and yet it was so popular here that Cartoon Network commissioned a second season. Popularity isn't engineered, it just happens. |
Negative-TravisDec 7, 2013 1:34 PM
| I'm dead. Don't come looking for me. |
| Why would you like anime to be mainstream? I couldn't care less if the masses like it or not. As for KLK, I love it! It's very entertaining, the art style is interesting, the music fits well, the story is crazy. And I don't know anyone (among my friends who watch anime) who dislike it. Whining about low framerate animation is like whining about Makoto Shinkai's detailed backgrounds and simplified character designs. IT IS SUPPOSED TO BE LIKE THAT. It's part of KLK's graphic style. And it fits! If you don't like it, fine. But personal preference is irrelevant. You can't say that good animation is 60fps and less than 20 is shit. Imagine an animation using puppets or clay or similar stuff trying to achieve high framerate! While possible, it is pointless and unnecessary. Animated movement is an illusion, use your brain to fill the gaps. |
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| While I couldn't stand KlK, I'd say the fact that anime is foreign to the West is the primary reason it isn't mainstream over here. |
| Salmon is delicious. |
linchpin said: But that's exactly the case. "Good" animation is seamless and "bad" animation is choppy.You can't say that good animation is 60fps and less than 20 is shit. That said, I don't think one should let a show's frame rate detract from their enjoyment of it. |
| I'm dead. Don't come looking for me. |
Negative-Travis said: TallonKarrde23 said: I'm saying it doesn't need to be 30FPS to be enjoyable. If you're really going to let the technical aspects of an anime bother you to the point of not enjoying it, you should probably stop watching anime for awhile.are you both seriously implying it would somehow be HAMPERED by proper and smoother animation? Because it's exactly what you are writing, I just hope you're saying it by mistake. I never once stated the show is bad due to the framerate, I said it's a negative aspect that you're saying is somehow irrelevant. It's not. While it's not "this show is bad because the animation is poor" - the fact of the matter is that "this is a bad aspect of the show". This is a situation where, yes, you could say shitty animation is acceptable to you as long as the rest of the show is good. I'm not disagreeing because, as much as I hate to say this in any context, that's all just opinion. Fine. However you're missing my point - which is that it's an objectively bad aspect of the series that you're defending by saying it 'doesn't matter'. What I'm asking you now is this: are you saying if the show was exactly as it is now BUT with better animation, would you like it LESS? You say it doesn't "need" 30fps to be enjoyable, fine, but wouldn't it benefit - even just a tiny bit - by being such? And hell, in the post above mine you just said low FPS is objectively bad animation, so you even agree with what I'm saying - which is confusing me more. Essentially, you're treating it's faults as not faults at all simply because "they are good enough" and because you like it anyway. I'm not saying the show is bad BECAUSE of the framerate - I'm saying the framerate is bad. If you read back to the earlier posts that lead to this discussion you'll see why it even came up. Someone said they love the 'outlandish animation', I was simply replying to that specific line. They were praising the animation, I was pointing out that the animation is objectively bad. I'm not trying to say the show is bad because of it (though I am implying at the same time that it could benefit from better animation). I do not like the show for a LOT of reasons, the animation is just one of those reasons - and not a high up one nor one I even thought about when originally watching this show (so it's not a reason I dislike it really). The framerate did not take away from my enjoyment of the show, but it is a factually bad aspect of the series. Repeating it again - I was just responding to a post PRAISING the animation, not bringing up the FPS out of nowhere to whine about it. |
TallonKarrde23Dec 7, 2013 1:49 PM
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TallonKarrde23 said: I can honestly say I wouldn't give the slightest of shits. Negative-Travis said: What I'm asking you now is this: are you saying if the show was exactly as it is now BUT with better animation, would you like it LESS? You say it doesn't "need" 30fps to be enjoyable, fine, but wouldn't it benefit - even just a tiny bit - by being such?TallonKarrde23 said: I'm saying it doesn't need to be 30FPS to be enjoyable. If you're really going to let the technical aspects of an anime bother you to the point of not enjoying it, you should probably stop watching anime for awhile.are you both seriously implying it would somehow be HAMPERED by proper and smoother animation? Because it's exactly what you are writing, I just hope you're saying it by mistake. I grew up watching Hanna-Barbera cartoons from the '60s, which had similar frame rates as KLK so I guess you could call it nostalgia. However, action-heavy scenes at 30FPS (or whatever most anime run at) look slower to me. Then again, that's not so much the frame rate as it is the amount of frames dedicated to a certain movement. The problem I have with this is that animators are dedicating more frames to the same amount of movement so it comes out slow as hell and the scene just seems to drag on forever. |
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Negative-Travis said: linchpin said: But that's exactly the case. "Good" animation is seamless and "bad" animation is choppy.You can't say that good animation is 60fps and less than 20 is shit. That said, I don't think one should let a show's frame rate detract from their enjoyment of it. Super smooth animation in KLK would not go well with the retro style. Also, even a slideshow of still photographs can be good! There's nothing "objectively" bad or good about animation framerate. 200 fps computer-generated animation might be bad. It all depends on your personal criteria. As one famous guy said: "Yeah... well...you know, that's just like, uh... your opinion, man" |
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| If Kill la Kill had fluent animation: - It would (to me) be less obvious that it's not taking itself serious. Putting that much more effort/budget into animation gives the contrary impression. It would impede my enjoyment. - A chunk of the comedy elemtns would be missing. Bad animation sometimes to the point of clichés is funny if used right. - I find badly animated fights more entertaining to watch than your general average animated fight. Sure, the very best animated fights are more awesome, but I can't expect every series to fall into that 5%. And outside of that I prefer the entertainingly bad animation over your run-of-the-mill okay-animated fight, because it stands out. If the rest of the show had a more serious atmosphere (like clean animation and all that stuff) it might not profit from the contrast, but in KlK it enhances the enjoyment for me. So sure, if you would have better animation, better fights, take away the wacky comedy, character designs, setting and plotline it might fit some definition of being 'objectively better' (while also being a completely different show in the first place), but just improve/alter one of those aspects (like animation) and it would be out of balance and feel a bit odd. So yeah, I'm saying that cleaner and more fluent animation would hinder my enjoyment of the show to some degree. The same way a more sophisticated/complex melody doesn't have to make a song better, or a bigger and more varied vocabulary doesn't have to make a book better. Sometimes the whole is more than it's parts and the key is picking the right parts for the project and not necessarily the best parts on a general scale. Of course how much this applies to the the individual case of KlK can be discussed, but you seem to negate the principle itself insisting that everything animated would benefit from better animation. To stay with Trigger, I doubt Inferno Cop would have profited from glitch-less animation either. |
| I probably regret this post by now. |
| Ok seriously why do we give a shit, anime already broke mainstream barriers in the west mutliple times, whether you like those shows that did is subjective and kill la kill wont do any more damage to the reputation here especially since it probably wont be breaking any mainstream barriers. |
Immahnoob said: Jizzy, I know you have no idea how to argue for shit, tokiyashiro said: Jizzy as you would call yourself because youre a dick The most butthurt award goes to you And clearly you havent watched that many shows thats why you cant determine if a show is unique or not Or maybe you're just a child who likes common stuffs where hero saves the day and guys gets all the girls. Sad taste you have there kid you came up to me in the first place making you look more like a kid who got slapped without me even knowing it and start crying about it to me |
| Yup Kill la Kill has some shitty production , cheap animation ,Weird Fetishes , tons of fanservice , lots of stupidity..... Still enjoying it :) such an entertaining show :) |
"DramaEnthusiast" said: Is Kill la Kill the single greatest example of why anime is not mainstream? Not even close. There are much, much weirder animes out there. Personally, I'm really enjoying Kill la Kill right now. There's a whole lot of creativity in it, particularly with some of the character designs. The plot isn't a very intellectual one, but sometimes it can be nice to take a break from the overly serious animes and turn your brain off to delve into insanity. As for the "ANIMATION IS CRAP THEREFORE THE SHOW SUCKS" argument, I don't quite get where people are coming from with that. But then again, I'm not a very critical viewer of anime and usually just enjoy shows for what they are. "Di-Dorval" said: Anime is not ''mainstream'' because it is cartoons and cartoons are obviously for children. That's not necessarily true. The target demographic of a show is based on its content, regardless of whether it's a cartoon or not. |
| I think it's good that there are anime like kill la kill that throw maturity out the window, because there are times when I don't want to watch something mature. That said, I can see why some people don't like it, since the fanservice, the ridiculous designs, and the unrefined content might be a bit much for people. TallonKarrde23 said: Kill la Kill is a shit anime - and saying it's "on purpose" doesn't make that any less true. It's a great example of why people think anime is bad, because it is objectively bad. There is no such thing as "objectively bad" in anime. What one person considers "good" another person could consider "bad", there is no right answer. So calling an anime "objectively bad" is just plain wrong. While stuff like low framerate is considered to be a negative quality by almost everyone, it's not the only thing that makes a anime "good" or "bad". So please don't come back by saying "it's got an objectively bad framerate so it's objectively bad". That ignores things like plot, characters, art style and hilarity, which to most people is a big part of what anime is. |
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Negative-Travis said: Agree.Though anime is not just a drawing it's an art.ibrahim2712 said: This is the only correct answer.Who the fuck cares? It's a drawing, kids. Stop taking shit so seriously. |
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ixsetf said: To offer support for his case, the plot, characters, and comedy are absolutely terrible in Kill la Kill.I think it's good that there are anime like kill la kill that throw maturity out the window, because there are times when I don't want to watch something mature. That said, I can see why some people don't like it, since the fanservice, the ridiculous designs, and the unrefined content might be a bit much for people. TallonKarrde23 said: Kill la Kill is a shit anime - and saying it's "on purpose" doesn't make that any less true. It's a great example of why people think anime is bad, because it is objectively bad. There is no such thing as "objectively bad" in anime. What one person considers "good" another person could consider "bad", there is no right answer. So calling an anime "objectively bad" is just plain wrong. While stuff like low framerate is considered to be a negative quality by almost everyone, it's not the only thing that makes a anime "good" or "bad". So please don't come back by saying "it's got an objectively bad framerate so it's objectively bad". That ignores things like plot, characters, art style and hilarity, which to most people is a big part of what anime is. |
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Reverb_Shock said: To offer support for his case, the plot, characters, and comedy are absolutely terrible in Kill la Kill. How do you define a bad character? What someone thinks is a good character could be hated by someone else. There's no measuring stick for a "good" character, plot, or joke, those things are all subjective. That's why what he's saying is wrong, not because kill la kill is a good anime, but because there's no such thing as objectively good or bad when it comes to anime. |
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ixsetf said: That goes for any medium of entertainment. But there has to be a general consensus on what is bad and what is good. Albeit, that's subjective as well.Reverb_Shock said: To offer support for his case, the plot, characters, and comedy are absolutely terrible in Kill la Kill. How do you define a bad character? What someone thinks is a good character could be hated by someone else. There's no measuring stick for a "good" character, plot, or joke, those things are all subjective. That's why what he's saying is wrong, not because kill la kill is a good anime, but because there's no such thing as objectively good or bad when it comes to anime. |
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Reverb_Shock said: ixsetf said: That goes for any medium of entertainment. But there has to be a general consensus on what is bad and what is good. Albeit, that's subjective as well.Reverb_Shock said: To offer support for his case, the plot, characters, and comedy are absolutely terrible in Kill la Kill. How do you define a bad character? What someone thinks is a good character could be hated by someone else. There's no measuring stick for a "good" character, plot, or joke, those things are all subjective. That's why what he's saying is wrong, not because kill la kill is a good anime, but because there's no such thing as objectively good or bad when it comes to anime. Then look no further than the MAL rating or the ratings and reviews of other sites to see that the general consesus for Kill la Kill is that it's a good anime so far. Unless of course you believe the majority is wrong, then that's your own opinion. |
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migohunter said: Then look no further than the MAL rating or the ratings and reviews of other sites to see that the general consesus for Kill la Kill is that it's a good anime so far. Unless of course you believe the majority is wrong, then that's your own opinion. I'm only objecting to tollon's use of objective, since it makes it sound more like a fact than it really is, since general opinions are still just opinions. Ratings shift all the time and different sites show often different ratings for the same show, especially when you go to places like IMDb where people who don't like anime chime in with their opinions. |
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Takuan_Soho said: I'd tell you, but I don't think this is the place to discuss it. I think we'd be getting a bit off topic, but I'll just say that the characters are cliche cardboard cutouts and the plot is barely there in the first place. There's no depth at all. I guess if you want to get in a big discussion about it, you could message me or something.Reverb_Shock said: ixsetf said: That goes for any medium of entertainment. But there has to be a general consensus on what is bad and what is good. Albeit, that's subjective as well.Reverb_Shock said: To offer support for his case, the plot, characters, and comedy are absolutely terrible in Kill la Kill. How do you define a bad character? What someone thinks is a good character could be hated by someone else. There's no measuring stick for a "good" character, plot, or joke, those things are all subjective. That's why what he's saying is wrong, not because kill la kill is a good anime, but because there's no such thing as objectively good or bad when it comes to anime. By all means, lets hear what you and TallonKarrde23 as well the OP think is good animation. Hating is easy. Saying that the plot sucks is easy. So tell us, why does the plot, characters, and comedy of KLK suck. Give us something more than the typical hater "if you don't understand why it sucks then there is no point in telling you" line. That doesn't make the person who says it cool, it just informs us that they are posers. So come on, what is a good animation. Shouldn't be hard to tell us. |
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Reverb_Shock said: I'd tell you, but I don't think this is the place to discuss it. I think we'd be getting a bit off topic, but I'll just say that the characters are cliche cardboard cutouts and the plot is barely there in the first place. There's no depth at all. I guess if you want to get in a big discussion about it, you could message me or something. But depth isn't the same thing as Quality. It's true that "3D" characters are generally better than "2D" characters, but 2D characters have their place. That place is in shows like Kill La Kill. |
Dreadwing93 said: What? I meant the characters have no depth. They are not deep. They're dumb, one dimensional, and cliche. I'm not talking about the animation, unless I completely missed the point of your post.Reverb_Shock said: I'd tell you, but I don't think this is the place to discuss it. I think we'd be getting a bit off topic, but I'll just say that the characters are cliche cardboard cutouts and the plot is barely there in the first place. There's no depth at all. I guess if you want to get in a big discussion about it, you could message me or something. But depth isn't the same thing as Quality. It's true that "3D" characters are generally better than "2D" characters, but 2D characters have their place. That place is in shows like Kill La Kill. If you're saying "3D" characters are well developed and "2D" aren't then it kinda makes sense, but no show has an excuse for terrible character development. |
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Reverb_Shock said: Takuan_Soho said: I'd tell you, but I don't think this is the place to discuss it. I think we'd be getting a bit off topic, but I'll just say that the characters are cliche cardboard cutouts and the plot is barely there in the first place. There's no depth at all. I guess if you want to get in a big discussion about it, you could message me or something.Reverb_Shock said: ixsetf said: That goes for any medium of entertainment. But there has to be a general consensus on what is bad and what is good. Albeit, that's subjective as well.Reverb_Shock said: To offer support for his case, the plot, characters, and comedy are absolutely terrible in Kill la Kill. How do you define a bad character? What someone thinks is a good character could be hated by someone else. There's no measuring stick for a "good" character, plot, or joke, those things are all subjective. That's why what he's saying is wrong, not because kill la kill is a good anime, but because there's no such thing as objectively good or bad when it comes to anime. By all means, lets hear what you and TallonKarrde23 as well the OP think is good animation. Hating is easy. Saying that the plot sucks is easy. So tell us, why does the plot, characters, and comedy of KLK suck. Give us something more than the typical hater "if you don't understand why it sucks then there is no point in telling you" line. That doesn't make the person who says it cool, it just informs us that they are posers. So come on, what is a good animation. Shouldn't be hard to tell us. don't worry the whole thread has been off topic since its conception |
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