Maria_Sama said: I don't really have an opinion about that shitty company. What a contradiction. |
 This is how it all begins.  My RYM|My Last.Fm|My Steam |
TinkleTinkle-Hoy said: DramaEnthusiast said: MEanimaniac1 said: The ugly character design, (I know it sounds stupid, but it just bugs me) I avoided Clannad for so long because of the ugly characters and obnoxious fans. Also the character stereotypes (few exceptions, that are very well done) are quite boring to watch. Overall I say Key's weakest point is their characters. It always seems to end in tragedy, so whenever I see "Key" I expect something sad, which is bad because I don't want to see a sad ending coming. Tomoya is one of the most dynamic male characters in an anime ever. No, he isn't. Make that statement when you've seen more highly regarded anime. My issues with Key's anime/VN's is the writing, it's not what I would describe as terrible but it doesn't deserve anywhere near the amount of praise it gets. It's always trying way to hard to make you "feel" for the characters, when all it does for me personally is make me think the writer is extremely melodramatic. A lot of them are basically harems with less fanservice. They are almost always overblown sob stories with generic attempts at comedy thrown in. They aren't horrible, but they aren't good. My opinion of course is not the popular one. I will admit that there's potential, but I don't think it will ever be reached. The writers need to tone down the drama(not get rid of it, just make it more realistic and less "please! feel bad for this character"). The female character need to stop being made with figure/merch sales in mind, and not be based on the generic archetypes. Mediocre describes Key perfectly. Tomoya, Yuuichi and Yukito (not at all this one) are the most static Key MCs. Said by a Key fan. Little Busters! (the VN, not the anime because it was a great MEH) maybe still has the plot involving the "solving the girls sad story", but the deeper story is better than Air, Kanon or Clannad. The common route is full of hints about the real story, which has a good plot twist. Some routes are bad, but not all. Something I would criticize are some characters. Moe doesn´t definite if something is good or not. If You ask me, Riki and Kotarou (didn´t finish Rewrite, but at the point I´ve reached I can give a short opinion) are better than the first ones mentioned, specially Kotarou, who has more interaction and moments in the common route than Riki or the other ones. Also, he´s more charismatic and has a definited personality. Same with the heroines. I´ll tell more about Rewrite when I advance on the history. Key works can be "mediocre" as you say, but these ones doesn´t look "mediocre" to me. |
TimeToRepentSep 29, 2013 11:01 PM
This is how it all begins. My RYM|My Last.Fm|My Steam |
SetsukoHara said: I've only seen Little Buster and 3 episodes of Clannad, but what I disliked the most were those elements. Otaku drama: Girls suffering from traumatic experience that can only overcome their problem through the help of Mr "Nice guy" MC that every Otaku wished to be. Unorignal storytelling : you can predict quite easily what's going to happen. The life lesson those anime try to teach are childish, and way too conventional. Moeservice: Art, personality of the girls, WAFU... All in all, it seems those stories are written by a computer program created to please virgin otakus. In summary: Monad said: Three words. Moe otaku drama. Sorry, but I´m not an Otaku. Basing on your about LB (I´ll talk about the VN, because the anime was really loose): I don´t care if lessons are "too childish or too mature", that point of view is subjective. If you want to know, childish or not, a lesson is always important, but I´m talking about my point of view. Explain me what has to do moe with the course of the story? (Obviously that the story isn´t all in a serie, but some people do "pretty" rants of an anime because it has Moe) About the "Otaku drama", Little Busters has "Otaku drama", but at least the heroines contribute to the main story with the hints in their respective routes. Their dilemmas are an "additional" used to make use of the hints. I can tell You that Rewrite (VN) still keeps some of the "unfortunate past" (because here it doesn´t look "so dramatic" and tearly as other Key works. For something is more labeled as "Action/Fantasy" instead of "Romance/Drama", still having Romance and a bit of Drama that´s not "exagerated", as some people say) (Also, the emotions are subjective). |
TimeToRepentSep 29, 2013 11:50 PM
This is how it all begins. My RYM|My Last.Fm|My Steam |
| They created Fuko. Is there anymore of reason to hate their work? 0.o Well, at least for me that's the only thing I hate about their work. |
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Hiryu12 said: They created Fuko. Is there anymore of reason to hate their work? 0.o Well, at least for me that's the only thing I hate about their work. Fuko is the most useless Key heroine. She´s too lost and doesn´t contribute a fuck to the main story of Clannad. |
TimeToRepentSep 29, 2013 11:49 PM
This is how it all begins. My RYM|My Last.Fm|My Steam |
| Well none of their works are 10/10 worthy for story, but really high up there in most other categories. Mostly this is by being extremely touching and having a ridiculously emotional climax like After Story and not to mention Refrain does. Rewrite is the odd one out, but also personally my favorite due to the awesome setting. Ironically, even though Rewrite is drastically different from other Key works, that's exactly why some people dislike it, because they're so used to the regular cryfests. Say what you like though but you can't argue with the fact that Key is probably the most popular VN developer out there if you just look at their track record. Kanon, Air, Clannad, Tomoyo After, Planetarian, Little Busters, Kud Wafter, Rewrite, Harvest Festa, and now it looks like Angel Beats will get its own finally as well. That's a quite impressive lineup no matter how you look at it. |
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TimeToRepent said: Yeah, Hiryu12 said: They created Fuko. Is there anymore of reason to hate their work? 0.o Well, at least for me that's the only thing I hate about their work. Fuko is the most useless Key heroine. She doesn´t contribute a fuck to the main story of Clannad. |
This topic has not been locked and is still available for discussion. |
gamer2710 said: TimeToRepent said: Yeah, Hiryu12 said: They created Fuko. Is there anymore of reason to hate their work? 0.o Well, at least for me that's the only thing I hate about their work. Fuko is the most useless Key heroine. She doesn´t contribute a fuck to the main story of Clannad. Exactly. I would criticize other things about her, but that´s the main mistake about her. |
This is how it all begins. My RYM|My Last.Fm|My Steam |
TimeToRepent said: It would have been better if she died on the same day of her sister's wedding. That would have brought the drama.gamer2710 said: TimeToRepent said: Yeah, Hiryu12 said: They created Fuko. Is there anymore of reason to hate their work? 0.o Well, at least for me that's the only thing I hate about their work. Fuko is the most useless Key heroine. She doesn´t contribute a fuck to the main story of Clannad. Exactly. I would criticize other things about her, but that´s the main mistake about her. |
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| Melodrama mostly. The only Key work I find to be truly exceptional is Kanon |
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| I tend to like most of their stuff, especially as a VN player, though I suppose the writing for different routes in their stories can vary greatly, from absolutely captivating like Chihaya's route from Rewrite, to amazingly meh, like Komari's route from Little Busters!. As a side note, I'm unsure of what to think of the people who say they dislike Key for the melodrama. I mean, in itself, melodrama is not a bad thing. It's crafted a certain way to appeal to emotions. It's even considered a genre. That's just what melodrama is. So watching Key's shows (fully aware of the fact that they are through and through a melodrama-work producing company) and saying that one dislikes the melodrama is like watching an action thriller and then saying that you disliked the thrill that you got from it. EDIT: Also, I don't know if it's really possible to talk about how you feel about Key's works if you haven't played their visual novels. Granted, the anime adaptations are all good in their own way, but you can't judge Key as a company based solely on the different anime adaptations. If that's the case, then you'd be better judging KyoAni's/J.C. Staff's/White Fox's (when they do Rewrite's) adaptations of Key's works. I assure you: experiencing 100+ hours with the different characters provides a much deeper experience than watching ~26 episodes of them, since things are compressed, skipped, changed, etc. |
AndyRayySep 30, 2013 2:23 AM
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| I don't like Air. I'm in the middle of re-watching Kanon. I love LB, Clannad and what little I've seen of Rewrite. So no, I definitely don't dislike them. |
sushiisawesomeSep 30, 2013 2:20 AM
| "The more inexperienced you are, the more you want to show off." - Oreki, Hyouka |
| From the little I've seen of their stuff, forced melodrama that is more humorous than touching. |
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AndyRayy said: Also, I don't know if it's really possible to talk about how you feel about Key's works if you haven't played their visual novels. Granted, the anime adaptations are all good in their own way, but you can't judge Key as a company based solely on the different anime adaptations. If that's the case, then you'd be better judging KyoAni's/J.C. Staff's/White Fox's (when they do Rewrite's) adaptations of Key's works. I assure you: experiencing 100+ hours with the different characters provides a much deeper experience than watching ~26 episodes of them, since things are compressed, skipped, changed, etc. Yeah if we're trying to review Key then there's no point whatsoever in even talking about the animes given that they're not theirs. I mean sure obviously they've had some part of the anime productions but they're still not made by Key. The only anime you could really discuss based on Key alone would be Angel Beats, other than that it's the visual novels alone that should be reviewed. |
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| I couldn't really say to be honest. I don't think there's much to dislike about them, they're good at what they do... and they obviously can't please everyone.... There are reasons their VN get adapted so often.... |
| My only complaint about some Key works is that... well... this is kind of spoilers. After that, I love all their works they have made so far. Planetarian is quite underrated if you ask me. |
Linkark07 said: My only complaint about some Key works is that... well... this is kind of spoilers. It's called Key Magic ^^ yes it's a bit convenient but it invokes emotions in people and that's what his works are famous for |
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| Jun Maeda needs a hug. |
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Shuhan said: more like needs to hug peopleJun Maeda needs a hug. |
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| The art, mostly.. http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm316/Crystalglacia/AIR/006.jpg I just.. i can't.. *cringes* |
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darkholy said: The art, mostly.. http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm316/Crystalglacia/AIR/006.jpg I just.. i can't.. *cringes* I prefer Kanon 2002 http://gallery.fanserviceftw.com/_images/49a94d503791515f131baee061614463/2422%20-%20bug_eyes%20kanon%20moe%20ohgod%20quality_face%20sawatari_makoto%20tagme.jpg |
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HaXXspetten said: darkholy said: The art, mostly.. http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm316/Crystalglacia/AIR/006.jpg I just.. i can't.. *cringes* I prefer Kanon 2002 http://gallery.fanserviceftw.com/_images/49a94d503791515f131baee061614463/2422%20-%20bug_eyes%20kanon%20moe%20ohgod%20quality_face%20sawatari_makoto%20tagme.jpg ^Link doesn't work for me, but I'm willing to bet that it's the two derp chicks that look cross eyed and retarded at the same time, correct? |
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darkholy said: HaXXspetten said: darkholy said: The art, mostly.. http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm316/Crystalglacia/AIR/006.jpg I just.. i can't.. *cringes* I prefer Kanon 2002 http://gallery.fanserviceftw.com/_images/49a94d503791515f131baee061614463/2422%20-%20bug_eyes%20kanon%20moe%20ohgod%20quality_face%20sawatari_makoto%20tagme.jpg ^Link doesn't work for me, but I'm willing to bet that it's the two derp chicks that look cross eyed and retarded at the same time, correct? pretty much well it's a quite famous picture so~ |
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| The boring process till the story reach it's plot... i didn't finish playing lil buster and rewrite yet cuz the tediously long story till the plot starts to move on.. or maybe because of the "very normal" atmosphere of the game that i think it's too long? anyway i fell asleep more than twice when reading them... and no it's not because i play them at midnight... |
foul said: The boring process till the story reach it's plot... i didn't finish playing lil buster and rewrite yet cuz the tediously long story till the plot starts to move on.. or maybe because of the "very normal" atmosphere of the game that i think it's too long? anyway i fell asleep more than twice when reading them... and no it's not because i play them at midnight... Well to be honest that kinda goes for most VNs. A slow start leading into an explosive finale is not something that's associated with Key alone. I mean okay the games are pretty long overall, but percentage-wise they're no worse than the rest. |
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HaXXspetten said: foul said: The boring process till the story reach it's plot... i didn't finish playing lil buster and rewrite yet cuz the tediously long story till the plot starts to move on.. or maybe because of the "very normal" atmosphere of the game that i think it's too long? anyway i fell asleep more than twice when reading them... and no it's not because i play them at midnight... Well to be honest that kinda goes for most VNs. A slow start leading into an explosive finale is not something that's associated with Key alone. You must not have played Rewrite.. "I walked down the hallway" "I opened the door" "The room was dark, I couldn't see" "The grass was green" "The water turned out to be, in fact wet! Who would have thunk it?" Geez, just get on with the bloody story, will ya? I swear, that NV is padded more than a teenage girl's bra... |
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darkholy said: HaXXspetten said: foul said: The boring process till the story reach it's plot... i didn't finish playing lil buster and rewrite yet cuz the tediously long story till the plot starts to move on.. or maybe because of the "very normal" atmosphere of the game that i think it's too long? anyway i fell asleep more than twice when reading them... and no it's not because i play them at midnight... Well to be honest that kinda goes for most VNs. A slow start leading into an explosive finale is not something that's associated with Key alone. You must not have played Rewrite.. "I walked down the hallway" "I opened the door" "The room was dark, I couldn't see" "The grass was green" "The water turned out to be, in fact wet! Who would have thunk it?" Geez, just get on with the bloody story, will ya? I swear, that NV is padded more than a teenage girl's bra... 'course I have, it's one of my favorites Point being as long as it's entertaining I don't particularly care if the common route is long. Rewrite and Grisaia both had common routes at about 20 hours, but they're both really funny along the way so what's the big deal. In the case of Little Busters I might agree that it was a little too much, but on the other hand you could disable the minigames if you wanted which would cut down the playtime quite a lot. |
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| The people who go shit-crazy trying to convince everyone how "bad" they are. Wait, am I confusing KyoAni and Key? *checks old history of KyoAni's work* Nope. |
| Probably.. maybe the game did have an average overall game time... but you know, putting aside sakaki's route, when i played grisaia i didn't feel the urge to sleep really badly... like i said.. i can't really put it on words what makes it felt boring.. the closest word to describe it that i can think of is the atmosphere... EDIT: seriously 20 hours of common route? i only plays it like a few hours.. on grisaia at least.. |
MellowJello said: The people who go shit-crazy trying to convince everyone how "bad" they are. Wait, am I confusing KyoAni and Key? *checks old history of KyoAni's work* Nope. Actually why the hell is this thread even in the anime discussion in the first place if we're talking about Key? o.o |
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foul said: Probably.. maybe the game did have an average overall game time... but you know, putting aside sakaki's route, when i played grisaia i didn't feel the urge to sleep really badly... like i said.. i can't really put it on words what makes it felt boring.. the closest word to describe it that i can think of is the atmosphere... EDIT: seriously 20 hours of common route? i only plays it like a few hours.. on grisaia at least.. I generally go in with the mindset that the true route will be awesome and the more I get into it early on the better it'll be eventually. If you keep telling yourself that you just want to get to the main event it might feel less rewarding, idk. Just hypothetizing. Eh @Grisaia, depends on what you count as the common route, I personally did Yumiko's first (which is the last to branch off) so I played the common route to its fullest right away, think it took me 19 or smth. Did Rewrite and LB's in 20-21 both I think. On the other hand the last two have a ton more content in their respective common routes as they actually involve minor choices although you won't see that before consecutive playthroughs, so I guess it depends on how you count. |
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| what i define as common route is the story before it's branching to a specific route... i start on michiru's route and my biological clock says it's like only a few hours prolly ten at most... didn't notice it was that long lol and you know... i have the same mindset as you are.. therefore i always saved what i think the last boss for the last one.. what a surprise.. turns out it's not a last boss but a slime.. should have taken that out first before i go into an epic boss fight = _ = P.S. personally i don't think i've even start on a particular heroine route on little buster and rewrite lol |
Rinshansan said: I find it ironic that I tend to enjoy the Key works not done by KyoAni more over those that were done by KyoAni. That's because KyoAni is bad. |
| Steel Ball Run anime when? |
HaXXspetten said: Why not, I guess?MellowJello said: The people who go shit-crazy trying to convince everyone how "bad" they are. Wait, am I confusing KyoAni and Key? *checks old history of KyoAni's work* Nope. Actually why the hell is this thread even in the anime discussion in the first place if we're talking about Key? o.o Rinshansan said: Does that include Little Busters?I find it ironic that I tend to enjoy the Key works not done by KyoAni more over those that were done by KyoAni. |
foul said: what i define as common route is the story before it's branching to a specific route... i start on michiru's route and my biological clock says it's like only a few hours prolly ten at most... didn't notice it was that long lol and you know... i have the same mindset as you are.. therefore i always saved what i think the last boss for the last one.. what a surprise.. turns out it's not a last boss but a slime.. should have taken that out first before i go into an epic boss fight = _ = P.S. personally i don't think i've even start on a particular heroine route on little buster and rewrite lol I have a feeling you don't like SRPGs ^^ |
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| Just me who honestly thought After Story was better as an anime than in the VN though? Probably the only example I have of preferring an adaptation over the original but I found the story branching in the VN to be really... well clunky given that you needed multiple playthroughs or reloads. A true route should be the conclusion of a story, I.E. linear so just what was up with that? :s |
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Rinshansan said: My feelings about you have changed.I like Little Busters (VN whore here) and JC Staff is one of my favorite studios out there along with Gonzo, Madhouse, and TYO. |
HaXXspetten said: I have a feeling you don't like SRPGs ^^ Nah.. i liked Alice Soft stuffs ( ._.) |
foul said: HaXXspetten said: I have a feeling you don't like SRPGs ^^ Nah.. i liked Alice Soft stuffs ( ._.) well haven't played Rance, can't say for those was more thinking of >100 hr Eushully ones where the story doesnt start at all until 35 hrs in or smth :3 |
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| Sometimes they try a bit too hard to be sad (a few characters come to mind), but I love bittersweet stuff all the time, so this is more of a nitpick considering I think Key usually does a great job at this... But I'd say the one flaw the Key anime that I've seen have is that they usually stick to the same type of main protagonist—a guy who's sarcastic/snarky enough to make fun of the other characters, but is nice enough to help them after warming up to them. I don't think that this is a bad characterization and at least these protagonists do have distinct backstories, but the execution of this characterization and how often Key uses it kinda gets repetitive after seeing many of their works. Even Yuu from Charlotte suffers from this problem—he has this different feel from other Key MCs just from how antisocial he is in the first episode, and it was entertaining to see the crazy things he does just to get what he wants. But as soon as he meets Nao and the others, this quirk is wiped away and he just feels like a standard Key protagonist. I get that they want Yuu to be likeable and all, but his character progression doesn't feel all that natural or consistent to me—it doesn't quite feel like this is the same character from beginning to end, just slowly changing as a person. I guess Yuu is fine, but he's no Neku Sakuraba (who, by the way, is voiced by the same voice actor and has a similar yet better character progression, which is hilarious). GissyHarlonde said: I'm not the type of person to complain or dislike. (Unless something truly pisses me off.) But I will state of I do find a little redundant of the Key animes I've watched. (Kanon, Air, Clannad (the first season and AS), and Little Busters!.) For me, their works usually "Main male character helping any girls' problem related to something tragic." For once, I would like to see a key anime of "Main female character helping any guys' problem related to something tragic" Yeah, it sounds a little silly but guys have problems too and girls can be strong to help too! ;A; That and I would like to see a light hearted Key anime. ^^ Agreed on this, why haven't they done either of these ideas yet lol |
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| I dislike PA Works. I hope their next anime flops so badly that Key cuts ties with them. |
| その目だれの目？ |
Lucifrost said: I dislike PA Works. I hope their next anime flops so badly that Key cuts ties with them. I don't know how I feel about this aging somewhat well, for Kamisama ni Natta Hi is..... well, it kinda tried to say the least lol. I wonder if the last 2 upcoming episodes will be able to save this show. |
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