| I should have said before that the reason I wanted to get in to them was because of my great experience with 999: Nine Hours, Nine Persons, Nine Doors and Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney. I loved those games. They could be called puzzles games but they share many elements with VNs. They don't focus on getting the girl, they focus on solving something or in 999's case, trying to survive and escape. If you fail you die. I liked the suspense. The paths intertwined at major points and each path was drastically different from the others. So does anyone know something similar to these? I plan on playing the sequels to these games and Professor Layton. |
Nagisa33Nov 7, 2013 12:23 PM
DateYutaka said: you dont play the best sould novels/visual novels now do you ------------------- im just comptaled Fairy fencer F its a very good Rpg by Compile Heart there getting better in my book also iv just complated Sen no Kiseki its the best rpg iv played all year sMT IV as very good but this game was just the best game iv played all year story was good for a falcom game battle system the TLS was the best sytem in any RPG in years [ I for one wouldlike to see FF XV to useing somthing likr the TLS I already said my problems with VNs. That doesn't mean I'll ever stop reading them, but my skepticism remains. Did you read my post? |
| "The more inexperienced you are, the more you want to show off." - Oreki, Hyouka |
Nagisa33 said: So does anyone know something similar to these? I plan on playing the sequels to these games and Professor Layton. Yes. You can play Policenauts and Snatcher. Not too mindblowing, but there are some good themes in them and non-betamale-teenager heroes. Still among my top "VNs". You can also play western adventure games. |
| As a huge Visual Novel fan myself, I was so excited when I saw this thread o_O I DEFINITELY recommend to anyone EVER 17 ~ The Out of Infinity. It happens in a near future, inside an amusement park underwater. However, an incident happens and seven persons are trapped underwater. The technology in this VN is well thought, even if it has flaws. The REAL problem is that I can't even talk a LITTLE bit about the story without spoiling the whole plot, which is absolutely annoying since it totally almost looks like a classic plot: get the girl, the end and get the next girl... What I do think is amazing about this Visual Novel is that after every route you do "unlock" more secrets and you have to pull the strings together to figure out what's happening - no "direct hints" are given to you. If you're really curious, here's a very very minor spoiler with no details You play as two characters : Takeshi Kuranari A 22 years old student at a University who was just going to meet with his friends at the park. He has Sora and Tsugumi routes. The Kid A boy who looks like 15 years old teen or a 16 years old baby-face -according to the other characters- who suddenly, in the middle of the park, got a mental breakdown after getting amnesia and turning "normal" again, although he doesn't remember anything about his past or present. He has You and Sara routes. When you play as Takeshi, Coco's here, but Sara's not, but when you play as The Kid, Sara's here and Coco's not. The VN is filled with heartful moments and I do believe that it's absolutely impossible, after finishing the game, to dislike even one character. You can hate one after doing 2 routes, but at the end you just can't - you can understand everyone's feelings. The english traduction is an official one - you can actually buy the game in english, but it's like for 300$... Still, it's to me a very good traduction - I've been playing lots of VNs and god do grammar suck, so this one was an amazing surprise. It's the same thing about the art - it's stunning. To someone else, http://fuwanovel.org/assets/images/vn/17/screen06.jpg this might not be amazing art, but man did I saw some horrible things before... (Clannad's space eyes and Fate Stay Night portraits still haunt me) I can seem to exaggerate, but in term of VN, Ever17 is probably one of the best, if not the best one available in North America. "The game was reviewed by RPGFan and was awarded a score of 93%, with the story receiving a 94% score.[5] RPGFan later ranked the game at #18 in its list of "Top 20 RPGs of the Decade" at the end of 2010.[6]" The game can be make you feel all warm inside and 5 seconds later make you cry like a baby, but you have to put yourself in some characters' skin to truly have dem feels. There has been a CGI remake on the Xbox360 ; the entire voice-acting (which was already great) was redone and also lots of artworks too! There is additional subplots and other additions. The CGI characters still seems kind of out-of-place, but oh boy do I want it........! What I'm saying here is very subjective here, but I do think Ever 17 ~ The Out of Inifinity ~ is the best -in term of anime/manga style- story I've ever read. Everything will satisfy you. You won't find emptiness at the end, nor would you think that a character wasn't shown enough - you'll know every little inch of all of them -. For those you would like to play, here's my suggested order to play the routes: You - Sora - Sara - Tsugumi And after doing the 4 of them, you'll unlock Coco's Route and "OMG IT EXPLAINS EVERYTHING" is coming. Also, remember that a character's route =/= lover's route and there's NO HENTAI. So, have a great mindblown! PS: IF YOU PLAY DON'T LOOK AT ANYTHING ABOUT IT ON THE INTERNET UNTIL YOU'RE FINISHED. SERIOUSLY. ---------------------------------------------------- EDIT Bleh, since I'm all fired up when I talk about this, here's a description of each characters. TAKESHI KURANARI http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/2870/385279ss4.jpg (You only see Takeshi when playing as The Kid since a VN is obviously First Person) Takeshi is an average university student. What's amazing about him is that, even though he has the average personality, he doesn't have the Harem Syndrome at all - you can see yourself in him with no risks. Funny fact; Takeshi is kind of a klutz, but what's funnier is that it's very obvious while playing as The Kid and not as much as when you play as him. THE KID http://www.mobygames.com/images/shots/l/191860-ever17-the-out-of-infinity-windows-screenshot-kid-the-boy.jpg (Same thing here ; you only see The Kid's face when you're playing as Takeshi) The Kid is a 15 years old looking boy who has amnesia. He's a very kind and childish and, like Takeshi, you only see clearly his childish side while playing as Takeshi, since The Kid always try to act in a mature way while you play as him. Both heroes are like average VN hero we can always identify ourselves to, but what's great is that when you play one, the other has a distinct character development. And now the girls (and it annoys me AGAIN that I can't tell anything about the plot) YOU TANAKA http://anime.advancedmn.com/images/media/ever17revscreen05.jpg You Tanaka is part-timer guide at LEMU's amusement park. She's very cheerful and upbeat. She gets her emotions often get the best of her, but something about her seem awfully sad and melancholic. She's the only character who has two outfits-her guide uniform and her average clothes that she kept in her employee closet. She's Sara's former senpai and is always getting into fights with Takeshi. SARA MATSUNAGA http://anime.advancedmn.com/images/media/ever17revscreensara.jpg Sara is a high school girl and also a hacker prodigy. She was You's former kouhai. Sara seems to be an average girl, not being too upbeat or mean, but you realize that she's quite gloomy. She also have an AMAZING voice when she sings. There's a huge tension between Tsugumi and her. SORA AKANEGASAKI http://www.mobygames.com/images/shots/l/191855-ever17-the-out-of-infinity-windows-screenshot-soras.jpg Sora's a chief staff at LeMU and is also a guide. She's a beautiful woman who's always calm and composed. She knows all about LeMU and is willing to help anyone anytime, but forget to look at her own troubled feelings. She has a lot of affection towards Takeshi. TSUGUMI KOMACHI http://www.zerochan.net/96128#full Tsugumi is very gloomy. She has a soothing voice, but never use it unless necessary. She seems to deeply hate everyone and never wants to do anything with the group ; not even sleeping in the same room even if it's for everyone's security. The only thing she seems to do is wander all day long in LeMU's non-flooded corridors. COCO YAGAMI dreamnoid.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/ever17_coco.jpg Coco's a very kind young girl - about 14 years old. She's very very naive and always want everyone to smile and have fun. She has a very high-pitched-almost-annoying voice. She always play with The Kid when playing as Takeshi while when playing as The Kid, he has hallucinations of her. |
MaoMeoNov 10, 2013 7:07 PM
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sushiisawesome said: EDIT: Enlightenment list for VNs and JRPGs has been shot down. I will create a club for them in due time, which I and any possible admins alone will be responsible for (nothing to do with this club aka) Where is this club? I want to be a part of this. The wonderfulness that is Solatorobo must be spread! Its such a brilliant JRPG that a lot of people don't even bother playing. I think I could even write an essay on why it is so good. I LOVE JRPGs and kinda like visual novels, as boring as a lot of them are to me. I've played "Don't take it personally babe, it just ain't your story". Its free so its easy to get a hold of. It wasn't brilliant or anything, but it was entertaining at least. Also, as far as what makes JRPGs and visual novels enlightening is partly that they are both art forms and also storytelling mediums. Many are basically books in many ways, only interactable, and I'm sure many of you have seen just how much books are criticized and analyzed, especially classic literature. |
TrishaCatNov 10, 2013 7:22 PM
| Just thought I add one. I was quiten take by Nracissu (both 1 & 2). Though it is obviously tearjerking and melodramatic... maybe I have a weak spot for that. I recommend it for people who are after emotional cheese. Top 5 material for myself and lots of negative thoughts. |
Battlechili1 said: sushiisawesome said: EDIT: Enlightenment list for VNs and JRPGs has been shot down. I will create a club for them in due time, which I and any possible admins alone will be responsible for (nothing to do with this club aka) Where is this club? I want to be a part of this. The wonderfulness that is Solatorobo must be spread! Its such a brilliant JRPG that a lot of people don't even bother playing. I think I could even write an essay on why it is so good. It's still a work in progress, though I may end up creating one on hummingbird at the rate MAL is falling apart. And Chekchie has convinced me to read Ever17, so happy days. |
| "The more inexperienced you are, the more you want to show off." - Oreki, Hyouka |
sushiisawesome said: Battlechili1 said: sushiisawesome said: EDIT: Enlightenment list for VNs and JRPGs has been shot down. I will create a club for them in due time, which I and any possible admins alone will be responsible for (nothing to do with this club aka) Where is this club? I want to be a part of this. The wonderfulness that is Solatorobo must be spread! Its such a brilliant JRPG that a lot of people don't even bother playing. I think I could even write an essay on why it is so good. It's still a work in progress, though I may end up creating one on hummingbird at the rate MAL is falling apart. And Chekchie has convinced me to read Ever17, so happy days. Hey, now I can die happy. Also, send me a PM whenever this club is created, I'm interested :) |
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| So, I just beat The Legend of Zelda: A Link Between Worlds (which I now consider to be the best top-down perspective Zelda) and today I dove in to Fire Emblem Awakening. It's my first time playing a game in the Fire Emblem series so I wanted the full experience: Lunatic difficulty / Classic mode. I consider myself a pretty competent gamer and I enjoy playing on the hardest setting. This was a bit different... well very different. I'm getting one-shotted by the first group of enemies and if I make one wrong move I'm toast. I keep the healer in back, the guy on horseback up front, and Chrom / MU in the middle. After a bit of trial and error I make it to the halfway point of the first stage but the enemies get the best of me. It's frustrating right now but I know when I learn the ins and outs, like any game, it'll be fun. Any advice from those who have played Fire Emblem Awakening? Also, I heard the story is fantastic. I'm ready to experience what makes this series so special. :) |
Nagisa33Jan 25, 2014 9:55 PM
| Which JRPGs have the best stories? I've heard amazing things about Valkyria Chronicles and Fire Emblem Awakening is really getting me immersed with all the conversations and relationship building. It makes it even more intense when you know a teammate can die in one wrong move. I still need to delve further in to the bulk of the game but things are shaping up quite well! Which stories are exceptional? What is it that makes them stand out from the rest? |
| I would never consider myself to be one with a vast knowledge of JRPG's, but out of personal experience I can safely say that Final Fantasy VI and Chrono Trigger have amazing stories, with some of the best moments in gaming. Earthbound and Persona 4 also look really really good, from the little I experienced of them. So I think I'll go and open a Pandora's Box here: Speaking of Visual Novels, what are you guys and girls thoughts on Song of Saya/Saya no Uta? Because I personally adore every last bit of it, considering it by far the best visual novel I've ever played, even if I played very few of them. The writing was phenomenal, tense, gripping, emotional, disturbing. The two main characters both fascinating, with great development and both being oddly sympathetic, or at the very least understandable, even as they become more and more of complete monsters. What about you all? Do you think it is that good, or is it just another overrated pretentious work done by Urobullshit and I am not the biggest pleb since the guy who said K-On is better than LOGH? |
| Though the number I've read is sparse, Saya no Uta is my favourite VN and also my most highly rated one. I little bit ago I went on a verbal waterfall when talking about the pros, cons, and possibilities of an adaptation ever being made, so I'll try and be more brief here. But yes, it captures atmosphere unbelievably well, uses shifts in perspective that would be interesting to see in literature, let alone a VN, almost supersedes your own good sense and forces attachments and discontent with characters whether you would normally be disposed to that line of thinking or not, and manages to finish with a "good" ending that hits you in the stomach like a mallet, and a chainsaw to the face for the "bad" ending. For its runtime it should also be commended for delivering so much through so little, worth every moment it gives you. |
| Ah what the hell, might as well jump into this thread. I like to dabble in JRPGs as one of my more preferred video game genres; I own quite a few, but have beaten hardly any (I was a lazy **** as a kid or sometimes get fed up/tired/bored and just quit playing for certain periods). I really enjoy the Tales' franchise and have played a few here and there, with Graces probably being the first RPG (semi-ARPG, but w/e) Love me some Dragon Quest VIII, FF: IV, Crisis Core, VII and I have VI on my PS3 but haven't played too much and some other stuff. I also own a single visual novel on PS3 (which I still have yet to play) because I figured I'd try at least one, plus the Limited Edition came with some decent goodies, and that would be Suigetsu Ni. |
Nagisa33 said: Which JRPGs have the best stories? Any MegaTen game that's not Nocturne has a fantastic story. Shout outs go to the Persona games, the first Devil Survivor (second was more character-driven), Devil Summoner; Raidou Kuzonoha vs The Soulless Army (haven't played the rest yet), Digital Devil Saga duology and Strange Journey. Final Fantasy up until 6 was also very well recieved for having a great story. Other entries (aka 7 onwards in general)...not so much. Any Tales game made by Team Destiny or Team Symphonia (I'm aware of the contradiction in what I just wrote) is also worthwhile (crossing my fingers that they bring Hearts over). From what I heard, Xenogears also sounds pretty fantastic. So does Suikoden. Dammit, so many games to try out, but not enough time... |
| "The more inexperienced you are, the more you want to show off." - Oreki, Hyouka |
Nagisa33 said: Which JRPGs have the best stories? Final Fantasy VI Chrono Trigger Breath of Fire IV Parasite Eve Xenogears Super Mario RPG |
 "Your sight, my delight. Will you marry me?" |
| If you want a weak anime trope story where you can self-insert to make yourself feel good, but a really easy game, go with Persona 3 or 4. If you want a decent but not strong story, but with badly aged gameplay, go with Persona 1 or 2IS/EP. If you want a decent story that's still a bit 'anime', with decent difficulty, go with Devil Survivor (part 1 for story, part 2 for gameplay). If you want a really strong story that doesn't throw everything in your face and isn't about you being awesome but about the world around you and requires you to explore to discover parts of the story otherwise left covered, and good gameplay, go with most main MegaTen titles (I'll go along with Nocturne being an exception mainly because it feels too linear to give this feeling, although the story is not P3/4-tier weak). If you want the above but with easy gameplay, go with SMTIV. ^Not opinion. Fact. |
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| Ignore Nick, MegaTen elitist and stuff. Start with Persona 3 FES and Persona 4, then Digital Devil Saga (duology), then the Devil Summoner games (assuming you have a PS2 for all of them). Then play the Devil Survivor games for the DS and finally play Nocturne on the PS2. That's how I and loads of people I know got into MegaTen. Happy gaming. Of course, you can play other MegaTen games at your own pace, but this is how I got into it, and it was pretty smooth to say the least. |
| "The more inexperienced you are, the more you want to show off." - Oreki, Hyouka |
| Nickie has a point, Persona 3 & 4 do have rather weak, formulaic stories. I'd also argue FFVII still has a rather strong story, but it's been a while since I've played it so I can't make a wholesome argument. Heck, it had existentialism with a tolerable MC and fun gameplay *cough FF VIII cough*. |
| Nagisa is probably looking for something cheerful and easy to get into, however. And Persona 3 FES and ESPECIALLY Persona 4 are fit for the kind of games he probably wants to play. And if we're arguing that being formulaic is what makes a game weak, then the Tales series (random friends meeting up and eventually saving the world), Final Fantasy (random "cool" dude saves the world) and most of MegaTen (LOL look at me I'm offending religion and shoving random politics everywhere that means I'm deeper than Persona) are just as guilty. Besides, my problem with FF7...is these two. You know what I mean, Angels. |
| "The more inexperienced you are, the more you want to show off." - Oreki, Hyouka |
sushiisawesome said: Final Fantasy up until 6 was also very well recieved for having a great story. Other entries (aka 7 onwards in general)...not so much. More like the other way around. The classic FFs all have weak stories, including VI. They have some nice nostalgia value though and a few other things that generally make them nice as games, but great stories? No, just no. It is after 16-bit gen that JRPGs got some more attention to the story aspects and not before it. Of course this doesn't mean one should not play them, but just for the love of god don't play stuff like FF 4-6, Chrono Trigger or Seiken Densetsu 3 for the plot. |
Ok I have to ask, what's your problem with Cloud? |
mecharobot said: More like the other way around. The classic FFs all have weak stories, including VI. They have some nice nostalgia value though and a few other things that generally make them nice as games, but great stories? No, just no. It is after 16-bit gen that JRPGs got some more attention to the story aspects and not before it. Of course this doesn't mean one should not play them, but just for the love of god don't play stuff like FF 4-6, Chrono Trigger or Seiken Densetsu 3 for the plot. Hey, Chrono Trigger is an amazing game. It withstood the test of time like it was nothing, something I couldn't quite say about FF7. But yeah, not much plot wise. As for the FF comparsions, just pointing out that I do like FF7; Crisis Core, FF VIII and FFX. The atrocities that were FFXII and FFXIII really destroyed the franchise for me, and I haven't heard anything positive about any recent FF (except for maybe Tactics, which I should pick up soon). And for the story-lines of the original FFs, I do confess they haven't aged well or stand out as original as they were back in the day. FF 6 is still hands down my favorite, steam-punk and all. DevilMustDie said: Ok I have to ask, what's your problem with Cloud? More like what ISN'T my problem with Cloud. But to those curious, here: 1)- He is really bland, stoic and uninteresting. And this is coming from someone who tends to normally quiet characters. But that's the thing with Cloud; I had no real reason to connect with him, and he was overshadowed in every possible in both Crisis Core and the original Final Fantasy by the other characters. Even bloody Aerith had better strength of presence than Cloud. 2)- Dude, his relationship with both Zack and Sephiroth. He aspires to become a hero like Zack. I'm going to straight up confess this; I have no nostalgia whatsoever bound to FF7 (I played it in Grade 10, and I played Crisis Core). This also meant that I had the chance to observe the role model that Cloud looked up so much later in FF7. There was no reason for Cloud to look up to Zack, no reason for him to obsess and look up to him as much as he did. I played FF7 right after Persona 4, however, so maybe I was subconsciously comparing the character relationships in both. Unsurprisingly enough, Final Fantasy came off as nothing but dull and mediocre. Well, at least until I played 6. His relationship with Sephiroth speaks for itself. I don't even have to explain what's wrong with that, because it's that obvious. 3)- THE FAN-BOYS. I'M FREAKING TIRED OF SEEING THIS GAMING ALL OVER THE PLACE. NO, IT ISN'T THE BEST GAME I PLAYED. LEAVE ME ALOOONE! I can rant on and on, but these are my problems in a nutshell with FF7. Think of me as you will. |
sushiisawesomeJan 30, 2014 1:23 PM
| "The more inexperienced you are, the more you want to show off." - Oreki, Hyouka |
| Cloud just had a fondness for Zack as some people can look up to anyone else. With all the rampant Angeal, Sephiroth and Genesis fans, Cloud just happened to be a Zack fan, and perhaps that's what contributed to how things played out (again, been ages since I've played both 7 and CC, so not 100% sure). Tales games I'm not going to adamantly defend their stories because honestly most of them DO suck and derail into "world shattering scheme, save the trees and the planet itself" yadda yadda. Abyss is supposedly the strongest Tale in terms of story but again, been a while since I've played it. Those games I mostly play for the gameplay, and if there's a good ensemble, that's a plus. Tales games may seem to run under a certain formula, but the sense of adventure and exploration branching things out gives it more of an illusion of scope. Not to say that Persona is innately flawed because of this, but the monotonous stuff they fall under could have been averted potentially, especially with 4 where each early boss fight is literally "Don't ignore your true self -insert character here- just accept it." "No that's not me!" *boss battle begins* at least spice up the dialogue and outcomes if you are going to have characters systematically fall into the TV one by one. I don't hate the Persona series by any means, but I don't LOVE them to the extent most do, and Atlus milking the story as if it is the drawing factor and something revolutionary to it is annoying, that's what grinds my gears. I'll level with you and say FFVII is overrated, if even only by a bit of a margin compared to most, but it's still a great game, and I used to be all anti-FFVII for a while because no one would shut up about it either, but revisiting it a few years ago, I was really drawn to it, part of it was just this inexplicable attraction that I got contrary to FFVIII where everything felt stale and unmotivating. While Cloud is a little more drab than most, he was a minor character in Crisis Core to begin with to be fair, but he still had a personality; he was something of a clown, an optimist and a go-to-it guy somewhat like Zack perhaps, and his regression could be validated by his existential crisis in the same way how some (like myself) can empathize with Shinji being pathetic considering how much shit he's gone through. I can understand your stance on things given how much love FFVII is, but I think things get a little too polarizing because of how it stands with its renown. Just my two cents, and I should probably get around to clearing more of these games so I have a better stance on things. |
| I'll just respond to Sushi's post 1) To say he's stoic, I'm guessing you're talking about Advent Children Cloud or the representation of himself in Kingdom Hearts? In FF7/Crisis there's no way that you can describe him as having a stoic personality. 2) He had every reason to look up to Zack. As Angel said, Sephiroth had the reputation of a true Hero/Soldier. Someone that everyone wanted to be and he was known as THAT guy. He's a minor supporting character I'm Crisis Core so him being overshadowed by majority of the cast makes sense since it'snot his story. Now for his relationship with Zack? I'm not sure how you could not see this especially with meeting each other for the first time. Both having a connection in terms of personality a little bit but mainly because both being born in the "same" backwaters country bumpkin village(Gongaga and Nibelheim) difference here is that Zack achieved to be the same thing Cloud aspired to be! 3) Well I'll admit, fanboys can be a little crazy but you can find that in serveral of JRPG series. Tales fans say Symphonia and with Persona it is 3 & 4. Don't worry about it, we all have different opinions. Let's just move on from the FF discussion. |
DevilMustDieJan 30, 2014 4:22 PM
| Agreed. I'd love to defend my stance on Cloud, but I think we've had enough of Final Fantasy flame wars in real life and online. Nagisa will come bursting in any moment, saying that all of this is according to plan or something. And laugh maniacally before fading away. |
| "The more inexperienced you are, the more you want to show off." - Oreki, Hyouka |
| Which aspects do you enjoy from Western RPGs and which aspects do you enjoy in JRPGs? When I think "JRPG" I think of Chrono Trigger, Final Fantasy, Pokemon. When I think "Wester RPG" I think of Mass Effect, Fallout, and Borderlands. What makes these two types of RPGS unique? What makes them different. Also, why do you think JRPGs faded in popularity? |
Nagisa33 said: Which aspects do you enjoy from Western RPGs and which aspects do you enjoy in JRPGs? When I think "JRPG" I think of Chrono Trigger, Final Fantasy, Pokemon. When I think "Wester RPG" I think of Mass Effect, Fallout, and Borderlands. What makes these two types of RPGS unique? What makes them different. Also, why do you think JRPGs faded in popularity? Oh, that's easy. Western RPGs tend to have a bigger focus on shallow entertainment and Hollywood tropes and tossing in guns rather than focusing on the story and/or character development. JRPGs focus more on the dialogue and the story, with the game-play aspects being an after-thought rather than being the focus - this still doesn't stop many JRPGs from having fantastic gameplay, but you know what I mean (probably). So yeah. I'm the worst person to ask this question though, as I've given up playing almost all Western games after graduating high-school. I couldn't stand how lifeless and repetitive some games (CALL OF DUTY) are. With all my criticism towards JRPGs, least they change things around to some extent with each entry for most series... |
| "The more inexperienced you are, the more you want to show off." - Oreki, Hyouka |
| Yeah, I am sure Planescape Torment is shallow in comp. to the Persona 4 dating sim... |
| Steel Ball Run anime when? |
sushiisawesome said: Nagisa33 said: Which aspects do you enjoy from Western RPGs and which aspects do you enjoy in JRPGs? When I think "JRPG" I think of Chrono Trigger, Final Fantasy, Pokemon. When I think "Wester RPG" I think of Mass Effect, Fallout, and Borderlands. What makes these two types of RPGS unique? What makes them different. Also, why do you think JRPGs faded in popularity? Oh, that's easy. Western RPGs tend to have a bigger focus on shallow entertainment and Hollywood tropes and tossing in guns rather than focusing on the story and/or character development. JRPGs focus more on the dialogue and the story, with the game-play aspects being an after-thought rather than being the focus - this still doesn't stop many JRPGs from having fantastic gameplay, but you know what I mean (probably). So yeah. I'm the worst person to ask this question though, as I've given up playing almost all Western games after graduating high-school. I couldn't stand how lifeless and repetitive some games (CALL OF DUTY) are. With all my criticism towards JRPGs, least they change things around to some extent with each entry for most series... Care to give some examples of those, shallow entertainment and full with Hollywood tropes Western RPGs? I love JRPGs more than WRPGs myself, but there are plenty of western RPGs (although not traditional) I like. And why mention Call of Duty if the question is Western RPG? |
"Your sight, my delight. Will you marry me?" |
sushiisawesome said: JRPGs focus more on the dialogue and the story, with the game-play aspects being an after-thought rather than being the focus - this still doesn't stop many JRPGs from having fantastic gameplay, but you know what I mean (probably). I'm not sure if I do know what you mean. Should the gameplay be an afterthought? If video games are their own medium then the gameplay is what stops them from just being an imitation of film, like how montage, dramatic close-ups, and other things stop film from just being an imitation of stage plays. Or how acting stops stage plays from just being an imitation of books. Why should the gameplay be an afterthought if it's what adds the dimension that makes video games into a medium of their own? |
Nidhoeggr said: Yeah, I am sure Planescape Torment is shallow in comp. to the Persona 4 dating sim... Sounds like the kind of thing someone who's a MegaTen elitist and/or hasn't played Persona 4 would say. Planescape Torment is a really good game though, I'll concede that. ZetaZaku said: Care to give some examples of those, shallow entertainment and full with Hollywood tropes Western RPGs? I love JRPGs more than WRPGs myself, but there are plenty of western RPGs (although not traditional) I like. And why mention Call of Duty if the question is Western RPG? Examples of those kinds of RPGs would be: - Mass Effect 3 - Diablo 3 - Odin Sphere - Fable series - Fallout (oh boy, I'll get loads of hell for this one) And many more less acclaimed ones, but yeah. I used Call of Duty as an example of being unoriginal. I apologize for how irrelevant the example was to WRPGs, but yeah. If you do know some awesome WRPG, then tell me. Not something that's a shooter masquerading as a WRPG, Mass Effect style. I'm planning on getting Skyrim, so heads up for that. Brilliant, now I've gotten myself into another flame war. Is liking Persona 4 that evil, guys? |
| "The more inexperienced you are, the more you want to show off." - Oreki, Hyouka |
Popka said: sushiisawesome said: JRPGs focus more on the dialogue and the story, with the game-play aspects being an after-thought rather than being the focus - this still doesn't stop many JRPGs from having fantastic gameplay, but you know what I mean (probably). I'm not sure if I do know what you mean. Should the gameplay be an afterthought? If video games are their own medium then the gameplay is what stops them from just being an imitation of film, like how montage, dramatic close-ups, and other things stop film from just being an imitation of stage plays. Or how acting stops stage plays from just being an imitation of books. Why should the gameplay be an afterthought if it's what adds the dimension that makes video games into a medium of their own? I just hate how people are like "lol, I only play games when they're realistic" as an excuse to not play an otherwise amazing game like say, Tales of Vesperia. Story is important in game, ESPECIALLY in an RPG where you're investing a shitload of time to get some kind of rewarding experience. Good gameplay is important, but oh boy, not feeling attached to the characters or feeling unimpressed by the story is a huge no-no by my books. I also really hate shooters. REALLY, REALLY HATE SHOOTERS. I don't want to see those in an RPG. Ever. Then again, who am I to say that? And a point in general: For the love of God, if me finding only 3 people in my entire life who know what Persona 4 is (in Jordan) among thousands of gamers is what makes a game mainstream, then MegaTen elitists really make less sense by the minute. Especially if these 3 people have also played other MegaTen games. Really, the difference in popularity between Persona and other MegaTen games is really exaggerated. Unless the Western fan-base is drastically different, but I didn't really catch that during my time in Canada either. |
sushiisawesomeFeb 2, 2014 12:58 PM
| "The more inexperienced you are, the more you want to show off." - Oreki, Hyouka |
| I agree with you that the demand shouldn't be that the gameplay be "realistic" (I assume the people you're talking about are referring to the gameplay). But the gameplay is a dimension that impacts the story, whether it be the way you can't talk to anyone in Journey or how Portal consists mostly of puzzles. Tales of Vesperia's gameplay has no obligation to be "realistic", but it should at least be relevant to how the lower concepts of the game function. I haven't played Tales of Vesperia, although I should because a lot of the ''Tales of" games have random Klonoa references in them. |
sushiisawesome said: I also really hate shooters. REALLY, REALLY HATE SHOOTERS. I don't want to see those in an RPG. Ever. Then again, who am I to say that? Too bad. The Borderland series is fantastic, especially co-op. Dead Island too is really fun in co-op, but not that much solo. sushi said: Examples of those kinds of RPGs would be: - Mass Effect 3 - Diablo 3 - Odin Sphere - Fable series - Fallout (oh boy, I'll get loads of hell for this one) - Mass Effect as a whole or just 3? Because that's as saying that Final Fantasy franchise and JRPG are shit because FFXIV. I like ME1-2, but I haven't played 3 yet. - Diablo 3 was a flop, play Path of Exile instead, it's really good. - Fable series is mediocre in any way, and really a bad franchise to judge the quality of whole western RPGs. I've played the first game ages ago, and bits of Fable 2. They really aren't anything special. - Which Fallout? I've only played FO3, and god dammit that game is awesome. If anything, Skyrim is one of the lows of WRPG, because it's casual to the max. I mean, it is fun, but not as an RPG, but as a hiking simulation. because really, who DOESN'T walk straight lines in Skyrim. A mountain in front of you? Walk straight! |
"Your sight, my delight. Will you marry me?" |
sushiisawesome said: And a point in general: For the love of God, if me finding only 3 people in my entire life who know what Persona 4 is (in Jordan) among thousands of gamers is what makes a game mainstream, then MegaTen elitists really make less sense by the minute. Especially if these 3 people have also played other MegaTen games. Really, the difference in popularity between Persona and other MegaTen games is really exaggerated. Unless the Western fan-base is drastically different, but I didn't really catch that during my time in Canada either. When someone calls Persona mainstream they probably mean it's catering to a mainstream audience. And how many people you meet that know something or not isn't an argument for whether something is popular or not. It would probably be an understatement if I said I had met 50 people who played Persona 3/4 but no other MegaTen game in the last 6 months alone, but my situation allows me to meet a lot of people of the target audience. Persona is a niche game too, but it generally sells more than main series games (SMTIV did pretty good as well, but that game is pretty mainstream in terms of difficulty as well), so it's more popular. |
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ZetaZaku said: Mass Effect as a whole or just 3? Because that's as saying that Final Fantasy franchise and JRPG are shit because FFXIV. I like ME1-2, but I haven't played 3 yet. Just 3, but it was more than enough to ruin the trilogy for me. That ending... ZetaZaku said: Diablo 3 was a flop, play Path of Exile instead, it's really good. Thanks for the recommendation. I'll definitely buy that. ZetaZaku said: Fable series is mediocre in any way, and really a bad franchise to judge the quality of whole western RPGs. I've played the first game ages ago, and bits of Fable 2. They really aren't anything special. Ah, I see. Was wondering why I was bored out of my mind while playing that. ZetaZaku said: Which Fallout? I've only played FO3, and god dammit that game is awesome. Fallout. As in the first one. I'm borrowing 3 once my exams are over from a friend. Heads up for that. Are they standalone? And if you guys know any other Western RPGs and want to suggest them, go right ahead. I'm all open for suggestions. Thanks! NicktheawesomeMegaTenfan said: Rant on what he means by Persona being mainstream Ah, I see. But what's wrong with appealing to a mainstream audience? Loads of people got into MegaTen (myself included) through Persona, and I'm pretty sure we can all name something we love that's mainstream. Besides, Persona 3 and 4 deconstruct their character archetypes and still fit the basic MegaTen formula; shit goes wrong, people are evil, mythology, religion, Law/Neutral/Chaos aspects and ultimately |
| "The more inexperienced you are, the more you want to show off." - Oreki, Hyouka |
| There's enough mainstream stuff. Let the hipster indie developers be cool and combine Pokémon with dating sims, Persona doing good has a bad effect on the main series/other spin-offs. SMTIV is casual as fuck in terms of in-battle difficulty (Luckily it still has some of the almost annoying map elements and searching without clear hints, and a not very accessible story). I don't really hate Persona. I kind of like them as games. I just think they're bad games, and even worse as additions to the MegaTen franchise. Like everyone likes some mainstream stuff, everyone also likes some bad stuff. And Persona fans trying main series games are also the retards asking 'Can I fuck Isabeau in Shin Megami Tensei IV?'. |
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| @Sushi Path of Exile is a free2play game. You just download it and have fun. Most of the micro transactions are extra inventory slots and stupid pets. Nothing affecting the gameplay. The game was made as a homage/ripoff to the original Diablo games. The gameplay is almost the same. >what's wrong with appealing to a mainstream audience? Mainstream audience doesn't like challenge. Hence why series often take a turn for the worse when they try to appeal to casuals. Thank god that some games leave the hardcore standard mode in games, like Fire Emblem Awakening and Etrian Odyssey IV. Both series featured hardcore gameplay, FE with perma deaths, EO with easy deaths. Sequels added the casual mode that disables perma death in FE and of course, spawn back in town when you die in EOIV. But we still got the original mode, so at least the game makers thought of the original fans. I guess the same applies for the WRPG too. Just compare Morrowind and Skyrim. Skyrim dumbed down everything to appeal to the mainstream audience. Mainstream wants to kill, not think. |
"Your sight, my delight. Will you marry me?" |
| I was going to write about elements from JRPGs and WRPGs that I feel like there's not much point. An RPG is an RPG at the end of the day and "Is it effective?" is the big question. I found this poll to be interesting. http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/606312-dark-souls/66209351 Dark Souls was my favorite RPG for a year and a half (until I started playing other games again. :) ) I could go on and on about why I liked it but I really wanted to ask a question. Which modern RPGs have blown you away and why? For Dark Souls, the most innovative feature is the mesh of singleplayer and multiplayer. I want to know what elements do you think are innovative for modern RPGs. |
| Well most of the concepts from Dark Souls were taken from Demon ;) |
| True you are. What elements are effectively innovative in modern RPGs? What works and why? |
| Not sure if I'd actually call Dark Souls RPG. I mean, there clearly are elements, but it's not that far from the RPG elements of DW games. |
"Your sight, my delight. Will you marry me?" |
| Finished Kara no Shoujo recently. Man I felt like being kicked in the balls by that depressing ending. |
| As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all. |
sushiisawesome said: They have references and they are in a linear timeline, but you can play them out of order. You may miss some references, is all. And if you are a lore nerd, you will hate Fallout 3 after playing 1 and 2 since it screws with the lore quite a bit.Fallout. As in the first one. I'm borrowing 3 once my exams are over from a friend. Heads up for that. Are they standalone? |
 |
ZetaZaku said: >what's wrong with appealing to a mainstream audience? Mainstream audience doesn't like challenge. Hence why series often take a turn for the worse when they try to appeal to casuals. Thank god that some games leave the hardcore standard mode in games, like Fire Emblem Awakening and Etrian Odyssey IV. Both series featured hardcore gameplay, FE with perma deaths, EO with easy deaths. Sequels added the casual mode that disables perma death in FE and of course, spawn back in town when you die in EOIV. But we still got the original mode, so at least the game makers thought of the original fans. Leaving a decent difficulty setting isn't enough for me, though. It's only fair if casuals are punished for being casual and still wanting to play big boy games. I only accept difficulty setting choices as a fair addition if you have to choose at the start of the game, can't change it again in that savefile, and the higher your difficulty is set, the more extra content you get. Ultimate bosses, equipment or other items (or demons, for a certain game) that are useful for certain tactics casuals won't figure out anyway, and dungeons that would make casuals cry anyway should be highest difficulty only. I want to be rewarded in some way for being better than other people. |
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| I think I'm mostly superficial when it comes to video games. I can never grasp what my exact tastes are like, but I know that... - I love round characters who sticks to their logic - Characters with mental disease that are accurate (in everything, the word 'psychopath' is waaaaaay too thrown all over the place) - Deep characters relationships development - although even if some scenes show cheesy moments, I'm a person who relates a lot to characters, putting myself in their position - I don't like hardcore gameplay. I play for an experience, a feeling, an ambiance. I can actually play challenging games if they're fun to me, but if I just die and have to redo everything every two minutes I'm just bored. RPG is probably my favorite genre, since I love roleplaying. My ultimate favorite is Persona 4 The Golden, since it mostly have everything appealing to me. This game, actually searched for every single thing I love about a game. I really enjoyed Persona 3 FES and Persona 3 Portable before, but Persona 4 The Golden is like, to me, a boosted version of it, with more roleplay content. I absolutely love it when I can pick a girlfriend, when I can choose who I can hang out with, when everyone comments about their costumes... roleplay everywhere. I guess what I really want is some kind of human contact. Games where everything seems cold like Fallout and The Last of Us don't appeal me at all. However, games with little roleplaying -meaning like no characters relationships nor cinematics- like Etrian Odyssey really appeal to me. Why? Well... laugh all you want, but I just like to make up stories in my end. Same goes for Diablo III, the only game of the franchise I liked. Sorry, I don't like Final Fantasy... except the XIII series and the XIV. SO, now I can confess that I am horribly uncomfortable to talk about video games due to my, apparently, unusual tastes who seems nor hipster, nor totally mainstream. IRL I'm mostly the laughing stock of mainstream gamers, for not having 'the best gear in da game' or 'the supreme loot strategy' and hipsters just don't like the games I like. But since everyone here seems pretty comfortable with different opinions, I'll just put this here and... I'm waiting for a hammer strike. |
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Chekchie said: Sorry, I don't like Final Fantasy... except the XIII series... *deep inhale* deep exhale* |
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