Yahari Ore no Seishun Love Comedy wa Machigatteiru. Episode 12 Discussion

CNagy said:

The festival went well enough, but there is no denying that both the opening and closing ceremonies were botched. Also remember Hachiman's explanation of "One for All?" Blame someone and drive them out--the people who got free time would be even quicker to scapegoat Sagami to deflect any of their own responsibility. When combined with all of the things leading up to the festival--including half of the committee being forced to work extra hard because the other half followed her lead and ditched their work--Sagami was in a position to be sacrificed.

DevilInDisguise said:
maybe in the end yukinoshita not wanna be friend with 8man and waiting for 8man say wanna be my girl.. ignore it,l just my imagination

game8910 said:

I can't wait for the full version of Bitter Bitter Sweet! Toyama Nao and Hayami Saori both have beautiful singing voices and having them together is just amazing.

game8910 said:
So we'll hate him, because he can take it. He is not a hero. He is a watchful student, a silent loner. He is Hachiman.

Naoki-Saten said:




I actually thought the same thing, so it can't be entirely absurd.

SapphireDragon said:
I freaking love hikigaya, everything that comes out of his mouth is so freaking true. and so freaking brutally honest. love it.
Looking forward to see how they wrap it all up next week. hoping for hikigaya x yukino gonna be a good week.

huehue93 said:
is the 13th episode a special or the actual ending?

AishiteruSasuke said:
I don't really see a reason why people hate Hachiman. I mean, he's just stating the obvious about the useless chairwoman.

good episode 5/5. 8/10 for the series.

BloodyNightsky said:

Personal experience , no one close to me ever said the truth about anything I asked was right or wrong . They think that they do me a favor but all they do is to hurt me again and again . I prefer a hard to swallow truth to get better than a beautiful lie and think that I'm doing things right . I know the feeling , when someone close to me or someone that spent 2-3 weeks around me , I feel irritated as a sign that they lie to me when I ask them about something . You can tell how much I know about people lying only by that.
I must re-watch the episode , this was just a first impression but again , I'm against lying persons I care about . I'm lying about anything my boss wants because if he doesnt hear what he wants he can just fire me.

CNagy said:
Hachiman didn't tell Sagami the truth, either. He told her part of it--her motivations and insecurities, perhaps--but he went on to lie as he attacked her. They aren't on the same social level, and the reason he was the first to find her was because he was the one tasked with finding her. Hachiman doesn't think for one second that they are alike. Both Hayato and Hachiman were telling Sagami partially the truth and partially what she needed to hear. From Hayato, it was reassurances and praise to coax her off the rooftop. From Hachiman, it was condemnation to drive her off the rooftop.

Hachiman's method was more merciful, however. You think people would just forget that Sagami screwed everything up? They would talk about how she was a failure as a chairman and her stumble in the closing ceremony would have been attributed to her lack of preparedness had there not been the convenient excuse of Hachiman's attack against her. Now she's a victim and will be spared the blame for what happened during the festival.

So was Hachiman's method the best? Sagami ends up not needing to learn any lessons, will likely not have to deal with the consequences of her actions, and Saint Hachiman takes all her sins onto his shoulders.

Tenzen12 said:



This. @BloodyNightsky: If you want you might say Hachimans methods are more effective, or you can say he is better character and I might agree with you, but If you think Hikki has higher moral ground you are missing point. He twist truth as he wish or blatantly lie when it come to it as well. And you should also know it his methods that later

Hikki isn't more righteous than Hayto and Hayato isn't more condemnable than Hikki.

LaZyBoxTv said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eI3dzO6jEBM
I can still see the sensei route.

Tenzen12 said:
Spoiler tag please

Tenzen12 said:


Hayato metter work just find. Do you remember his last line on that roof? He did see what Hikki did and even went along to in order make Sagami look better, but he hates it regardless and hates it.

If you think Hachimans act were directed against her you are badly mistaken. All Hayato needed was little push, say few nice lines and everyone would be happy, or Hikki could just take these results and let Yukino get deserved credit. But Hikki decided SAVE Sagami who didn't deserved it instead and destroyed himself in process. If that isn't wrong method I never saw one.

Naoki-Saten said:


You guys are cruel. How could you start a serious discussion without me? =(

Hachiman's and Hayato's methods cannot be classified as 'right' or 'wrong'. They were different methods to reach different goals (getting sagami on stage is the only goal they had in common).

Hachiman wanted to fulfill Sagami's request of having Yukino HELP her with her duties, not take them over completely, to help her 'grow as a person', and lastly, save her from the criticism she would receive for half-assing her job. If Sagami got her desired portion of pity from Hayato, she wouldn't have learned anything. Therefore Hachiman showed her how ugly a person she is. He hurt her and made her mess up her speech but that is an experience she can learn from in the future. Lastly, he pulled all the blame on himself by playing the role of the villain. That's far better than having everyone on the comitee talk about how she messed up her job. He practically offered her the smaller amount of pain.
The evil weird loner talked smack about poor chairman and messed her up. Pity for the chairman, hate for the loner.

Hayato's goals were completely different. He always tries to settle all conflicts and to reduce the damage as much as possible. He doesn't intend on teaching people a lesson or anything. Why should he? He would just offer Sagami some pity and a warm smile, make her finish her job and everything would be over and done with.
The problem would be solved and nobody would get hurt.

I'm not sure if he willingly went with Hachiman's methods or if he got seriously angry at him. Either way, once everything was over, he went back to reducing the damage, standing up for Hachiman.


It's not about right or wrong. It's about which goal fits you better.
Would you rather stop all conflicts as soon as possible? Or would you rather stir up a conflict so that people can learn from it?

Personally, I prefered Hachiman's method. He was cruel but he offered Sagami a lesson while still allowing her to save face. Also, this guy is amazing for shouldering all that blame by himself, protecting someone who'd actually be classified as his enemy.

Tenzen12 said:
It was never discussion whose method were better but whose method is moraly corrct. Hikki is badass there is no reason doubt about efectivity

Naoki-Saten said:


"Better", "Morally correct", use whatever term you see fit. It's still about preferences.

Is it morally correct to save Sagami (which she didn't deserve) from the mess she created while being the bad guy ?
Or would it be correct to have her get what she deserved while offering pity?

I still think that Hachiman gave Sagami just about enough pain to give her the opportunity to fix her attitude and teach her a lesson, while taking on all the 'excessive' pain himself.

ShikiAshGrave said:
Personally, I prefered Hachiman's method. He was cruel but he offered Sagami a lesson while still allowing her to save face. Also, this guy is amazing for shouldering all that blame by himself, protecting someone who'd actually be classified as his enemy.