IntroverTurtle said: I can't with a straight face say yes.MellowJello said: It's not a bad reaction. I mean we already have threads where we talk about adult things, the only thing left is posting pictures. And do you think people will do that civilly.crosby_87 said: Aww come on! That's the third person who reacted like that!well...its not like all the threads created in the 18+ selection will about porn? right...? BUT, we won't know till we try. |
| There's a rule stating that NSFW must always be spoilered from what I know. Even if it's an 18+ thread that does not mean they won't obey the rules. |
Play League of Legends here! Autocrat said: Hitler was good, objectively. |
| I support this. I think the 18+ forum idea is a better idea than creating separate 18+ threads, because with threads people would have to remember to correctly label it 18+. And if someone under 18 lies about their age to get in... that's not really MAL's problem as long as they warn everyone it is 18+. |
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| Let's all just move to HongFire. lmao. |
Immahnoob said: If the rules about NSFW pictures being put in a spoiler stays then what's the point in having a 18+ board or thread. If we are already allowed now to have 18+ threads and post NSFW pictures in them as long as they are relevant to the thread.There's a rule stating that NSFW must always be spoilered from what I know. Even if it's an 18+ thread that does not mean they won't obey the rules. |
     Short of the day: Monotonous Purgatory(MAL) ✰Public Domain Club | One Piece Club✰ |
IntroverTurtle said: You have a point there..Immahnoob said: If the rules about NSFW pictures being put in a spoiler stays then what's the point in having a 18+ board or thread. If we are already allowed now to have 18+ threads and post NSFW pictures in them as long as they are relevant to the thread.There's a rule stating that NSFW must always be spoilered from what I know. Even if it's an 18+ thread that does not mean they won't obey the rules. Mods, would you care to elaborate on this? Why is (spoilered) NSFM content allowed in threads when the acronym literally means "NOT SAFE FOR MAL"? And yet, you close some 18+ (Jenny's thread) for whatever reason you feel like. Care to explain? As an aside, IntroverTurtle, how come you're always helping this thread out even though you were indifferent to my suggestion? |
MellowJello said: Well for Jenny's threads probably either it wasn't a mature enough topic as in it wouldn't generate a good discussion or it stayed off topic the whole time. And we know how fast a thread can become off topic on here.You have a point there.. Mods, would you care to elaborate on this? Why is (spoilered) NSFM content allowed in threads when the acronym literally means "NOT SAFE FOR MAL"? And yet, you close some 18+ (Jenny's thread) for whatever reason you feel like. Care to explain? As an aside, IntroverTurtle, how come you're always helping this thread out even though you were indifferent to my suggestion? Because I'm bored and want to make sure everything gets said that needs to. And who knows, maybe someone will convince me completely one way. Right now I don't see a point to the 18+ threads, we should just get the tags fixed. |
Short of the day: Monotonous Purgatory(MAL) ✰Public Domain Club | One Piece Club✰ |
MellowJello said: And yet, you close some 18+ (Jenny's thread) for whatever reason you feel like. Care to explain? Some of her(?) threads deal with illegal things, like animal cruelty and abuse. Other threads of hers tend to attract young kids into talking about their masturbation habits and so on - which, just like the animal thing, is very close to being law breaking in no small way, not to mention makes this an extremely unsafe environment for children. There's a big difference between a lewd screenshot from some borderline hentai like DxD and a person going around asking real minors how they like to rub one out or talking about murdering a domesticated pet. |
TallonKarrde23Jan 28, 2013 1:45 AM
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TallonKarrde23 said: I'll admit some of her threads were borderline law-breaking (killing pets), but others (such as her cited example of losing one's virginity [page 2]) don't particularly seem harmful to an older crowd. Underaged users of course is a different story.MellowJello said: And yet, you close some 18+ (Jenny's thread) for whatever reason you feel like. Care to explain? Some of her(?) threads deal with illegal things, like animal cruelty and abuse. Other threads of hers tend to attract young kids into talking about their masturbation habits and so on - which, just like the animal thing, is very close to being law breaking in no small way, not to mention makes this an extremely unsafe environment for children. There's a big difference between a lewd screenshot from some borderline hentai like DxD and a person going around asking real minors how they like to rub one out or talking about murdering a domesticated pet. And actually, strange enough, this just makes me throw in the rhetorical question: "Isn't this why we should have 18+ threads?" It won't let us talk about breaking the law, fine, but it'll let us talk about the more "sensitive" topics, right? I think I'm getting closer to the meat of the issue... |
MellowJello said: Note that while NSFM are allowed to a certain extent, everything too extreme will be deleted. Also, IntroverTurtle said: You have a point there..If the rules about NSFW pictures being put in a spoiler stays then what's the point in having a 18+ board or thread. If we are already allowed now to have 18+ threads and post NSFW pictures in them as long as they are relevant to the thread. Mods, would you care to elaborate on this? Why is (spoilered) NSFM content allowed in threads when the acronym literally means "NOT SAFE FOR MAL"? And yet, you close some 18+ (Jenny's thread) for whatever reason you feel like. Care to explain? Site and Forum Guidelines said: III.6 NSFM pictures may not be embedded into forum posts. However, a link to the picture may be posted in spoiler tags and labeled; i.e.: NSFM: MellowJello said: There's your answer for Jenny's threads. Note that this is an all-age forum.I'll admit some of her threads were borderline law-breaking (killing pets), but others (such as her cited example of losing one's virginity [page 2]) don't particularly seem harmful to an older crowd. Underaged users of course is a different story. |
| Thanks a bunch for posting the rules Koleare. I'm surprised I missed that about spoiler-posting. As for koleare said: While this clears up any questions I had, that only makes the issue of creating 18+ threads more sensible.MellowJello said: There's your answer for Jenny's threads. Note that this is an all-age forum.I'll admit some of her threads were borderline law-breaking (killing pets), but others (such as her cited example of losing one's virginity [page 2]) don't particularly seem harmful to an older crowd. Underaged users of course is a different story. From what I'm getting out of this, 18+ spoilered stuff is fine, but 18+ discussion is not (to a very oddly-defined extent). We can contribute to a topic with 18+ material, but we can't have a discussion on it. That's what I'm seeing as wrong. And that's why I think we should have this suggestion. |
| Why you think the net was born? PORN PORN PORN! |
 "The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." -Friedrich Nietzsche |
bottosai-01 said: Thaaat makes 4!Why you think the net was born? PORN PORN PORN! Not that I'm complaining. Anyways, what's your position on this suggestion bottosai-01? |
MellowJello said: Thanks a bunch for posting the rules Koleare. I'm surprised I missed that about spoiler-posting. As for koleare said: While this clears up any questions I had, that only makes the issue of creating 18+ threads more sensible.MellowJello said: There's your answer for Jenny's threads. Note that this is an all-age forum.I'll admit some of her threads were borderline law-breaking (killing pets), but others (such as her cited example of losing one's virginity [page 2]) don't particularly seem harmful to an older crowd. Underaged users of course is a different story. From what I'm getting out of this, 18+ spoilered stuff is fine, but 18+ discussion is not (to a very oddly-defined extent). We can contribute to a topic with 18+ material, but we can't have a discussion on it. That's what I'm seeing as wrong. I'd think this goes back again to the point I was making of "a slightly lewd pic (albeit not any sort of pornography as far as I understood the rules)" compared to a user asking underage users about their sex lives, genitals, self pleasuring, and so on. There's a line - and condoning discussion about this with children crosses it. The moment they say "Okay, you can all do that here" even in some special forum section and some mother sees her 13 year old in there, it's MAL that's liable - not Jenny. Especially given the subject matter - it's not like finding some kid on a porn site (not to mention those have all those verifications plus disclaimers plastered EVERYWHERE) or finding them seeing a pantyshot of some anime character, it's finding a kid talking about their sexual parts and experiences to people that are middle aged. It's very borderline illegal, sometimes crossing right into stuff so blatant that it's amazing Jenny isn't being charged as a child predator for going to a site full of underage people and talking kids into giving details about these things. With that and shit like talking about murdering people's pets, I'm surprised she's not permabanned for not only breaking forum rules - but outright skipping across legal boundaries. It's not something worth the risk for an ANIME FANSITE where that kind of conversation is entirely irrelevant even for those of age and has no need to be here at all. This is an ANIME website - yes there are sections on the forum for other discussion, but nothing near what she posts. That sort of thing 1. shouldn't get posted anywhere that's not specifically designed for adults only and 2. is entirely irrelevant to this website and it's point of existence. There are places made for this type of discussion - an anime website filled with children is not one of those. Just because it's the internet does not make any of this irrelevant. Hell, even ignoring the legal issues, I doubt Xinil or any of the other moderators condone - on a strictly MORAL level - discussing that stuff with possible (and so far, very often) underage users. This isn't some public access forum or website, it's Xinil's and whoever else runs this place, and I'm willing to bet none of them would say "it's okay to have children talking about their masturbation habits to 30 year olds" even if there were no legal issues involved, so it's just not acceptable on this all-ages website and forum. |
TallonKarrde23Jan 28, 2013 4:06 AM
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TallonKarrde23 said: Right off the bat, I'll use a cheap argument and say: "But stuff like this happens all the time already! Worst of all, users get away with it with no problem at all. If that's gonna happen, we may as well make a place where they can do it without the fear of banning, and at least block some users from NSFM content."MellowJello said: I'd think this goes back again to the point I was making of "a slightly lewd pic (albeit not any sort of pornography as far as I understood the rules)" compared to a user asking underage users about their sex lives, genitals, self pleasuring, and so on. There's a line - and condoning discussion about this with children crosses it. The moment they say "Okay, you can all do that here" even in some special forum section and some mother sees her 13 year old in there, it's MAL that's liable - not Jenny. Especially given the subject matter - it's not like finding some kid on a porn site (not to mention those have all those verifications plus disclaimers plastered EVERYWHERE), it's finding a kid talking about their sexual parts and experiences to people that are middle aged. It's very borderline illegal, sometimes crossing right into stuff so blatant that it's amazing Jenny isn't being charged as a child predator for going to a site full of underage people and talking kids into giving details about these things. This is something people go to jail for on a regular basis, and not something worth the risk on an ANIME FANSITE where that kind of conversation is entirely irrelevant even for those of age. Hell, even ignoring the legal issues, I doubt Xinil or any of the other moderators condone - on a strictly MORAL level - discussing that stuff with possible (and so far, very often) underage users. This isn't some public access forum or website, it's Xinil's and whoever else runs this place, and I'm willing to bet none of them would say "it's okay to have children talking about their masturbation habits to 30 year olds". Cheap argument aside, how is MAL liable for the stupid things that kids do? If kids browse porn sites, does the porn site get closed down? No. Same thing applies to MAL. It's not a porn site, yes, but it's still applicable. It would be the kids' fault if they revealed compromising information about themselves to potential pedophiles. It would also be easier for the authorities to arrest them. Disclaimers are there for a reason. Probably going to drag this one into outrageous territory, but you're forgetting that kids don't only browse anime websites. Just imagine countless other forums where kids could be doing the exact thing you're describing: talking about 18+ content. Some might be going to jail, while some just keep happening without anyone batting an eyelid. Properly addressing the third point, what kind of material is relevant to that age? High school? Prom dates? Education reform? Religion? Gun control? Polygamy? At one point in time (not anymore, looking at CD right now) those kinds of topics existed, and I can definitely say lots of topics aren't relevant to under aged users. Yet we still talk about them. So we may as well have a closed off place on MAL to talk about it, while reducing potential legal consequences and forum bans. As for the mod point: Yep, I still have no clue about that. Tachii has given me his personal opinion (as a non-mod), Koleare plans to give a response, and that's about it. Morals aside, we don't know till we get official responses. Oof, a response edit 5 minutes ago, lemme see.. okay. You're making it sound as if once 18+ threads are made, teenagers are suddenly going to come flocking around talking about their naughty bits. You're forgetting that even right now, the forums lack personal disclosure. This sounds like it's dodging the issue, but it's true. Just look at Casual Discussion. And finally, your original point still hasn't been countered. I'm still looking for a solution to that. Someone help! |
MellowJelloJan 28, 2013 4:16 AM
| The idea that "it happens elsewhere so MAL should choose to perpetuate that" isn't really the best counterpoint. That's like saying the laws about child molesters being unallowed to live near schools should be lifted because "They will still find kids to rape anyway! At least if they live nearby they won't be hiding in alleys to do it!". Hell, even 4chan reports animal abuse, CP, and possible sexual predators to the authorities, I don't see MAL somehow taking less of a moral stand than that place. As for the part about what material is 'relevant'; gun control, politics, religion, etc, are all things that may not INTEREST younger users (or older ones), but are in no way something that could have any sort of negative impact on a minor. These threads we're discussing are highly capable of that, and/or being used to abuse the stupid nature of kids who are willing to share anything online. Hell, you can't even prove Jenny isn't a known sex offender specifically making those types of threads for disgusting deviant and illegal purposes, because it's the internet we don't even know who that user actually is or what their intents are. What we SHOULD do to keep MAL all-ages - and more importantly SAFE FOR CHILDREN - is have the moderation team actually close these topics immediately instead of letting them sit for days, as well as banning repeat offenders on site. Even if this means getting an extra mod or two that specifically watch the casual discussion section consistently throughout the day. |
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| Okay, it's getting into text-wall territory, so I won't quote. First point: Right, it was a cheap argument, so you got me there. Second point: But it's that anonymity that also protects under aged individuals. We don't know if Jenny's a sex offender, but we also don't know if a person is lying about their age. For example, a 30 year old person gets into the 18+ thread/board, and he then pretends to be younger than 18. Another user calls the net authorities to resolve the matter. They nearly close the site down due to a fake under 18 user. Realistically though, they'd acknowledge the false alarm and won't do anything about it. Anonymity protects criminals and victims. And by that logic, the safety of under aged users is provided, while allowing the discussion of sensitive material. And as said before, what's been said is the child's problem, not MAL's. Third point: That suggestion is as valid as mine, so I won't contest it. Even better, you should actually post a suggestion about it. *sigh* people yelling at me to respond faster. Get off my back! (you know who you are :l ) |
| I find it wrong making analogies with rape when we're talking about something like adding an option to have 18+ threads with warnings. We've never said that we should go against the law OR the actual rules. If there's a warning AGAIN, it's nobody's fault they stumbled upon something that might "scar" them (which I doubt, when you get on the Internet, the first ads you see are pornographic ads anyway), I think I've already talked about NSFW that must always be spoilered (even the rules say so). Also, the point of the spoilers is that you can choose what to see from that 18+ thread, unless your finger hurts so bad that you can't press on a spoiler to see the pictures, that's your problem once more. And from what I know, what the heck? Actual 18+ pictures even spoilered were always deleted by you Mods, when did that change? |
Play League of Legends here! Autocrat said: Hitler was good, objectively. |
| *sigh of relief* Thanks Immahnoob for having my back. Tallon makes good arguments! And yes, your argument sounds like the 18+ threads are going to quickly devolve into 4chan's /b/ antics. Don't forget if it's only 18+ users (for a period of time before the minimum age cap is bypassed), the threads are most likely (don't quote me on this) going to have a more mature tone. And also Immahnoob said: I'd like this answered, mods.And from what I know, what the heck? Actual 18+ pictures even spoilered were always deleted by you Mods, when did that change? |
MellowJello said: I'd like this answered, mods. If the picture is too risque, it'll be removed regardless. That, and it depends on the mod in question. One person would probably feel it's ok to leave it, while one wouldn't. Aside from that, my opinion on this whole 18+ thing (read through some of these posts), don't see it as being completely unnecessary, but I really can't see it happening. Primarily because I feel it wouldn't change much, and catering to such a small amount of people... meh. I personally don't look for or discuss those kind of 18+ topics here, and the vast majority of people that visit these forums are probably the same. Overall, there's just too many other things that need to be fixed and implemented. Some things which mods are testing right now that are in the beta phase. It should be obvious to every supporter of this thread, the chances of ever seeing something like this is implemented would be a very, very, very long ways down the road if someone gave the ok on this. |
| I think Kuro is saying that because you did not add a poll, it looks like not many people agree with this idea. Yet there are 12 pages, while my suggestion that has ~130 (don't wanna check) votes has only 5 pages... Wait, how many actual forumers are there online at max? Oh yeah, about 600... How many actually post... Not even half? Hey, I can't actually provide any evidence, just like you can't about "the vast majority of people" and the "small amount of people" that like this idea. What am I trying to say? Try not to be biased with what you're saying, "vast majority" and "such small amount" sounds like a dichotomy to me. |
Play League of Legends here! Autocrat said: Hitler was good, objectively. |
| Why is this such a big deal? On the main homepage you can see the recommendations on the side and once in a while you will see a picture of tits or cum or something NSFM. |
PricklySmickey said: Those are only cover pictures for anime or manga. And everything uploaded to the site has to have anything NSFM censored using a white bar. So there shouldn't be anything NSFM on the site. And it's really just lotion.Why is this such a big deal? On the main homepage you can see the recommendations on the side and once in a while you will see a picture of tits or cum or something NSFM. |
Short of the day: Monotonous Purgatory(MAL) ✰Public Domain Club | One Piece Club✰ |
Immahnoob said: I find it wrong making analogies with rape when we're talking about something like adding an option to have 18+ threads with warnings. I was comparing his argument to an argument about rape - not comparing this situation to rape. I was simply giving an idea of how ridiculous what he was saying was by using an exaggerated example, it's common to do so in a discussion in order to more easily make what you're saying understood. Actually, it's pretty much what you're supposed to do - make your point as clear as possible using whatever techniques available, and this is a valid and very useful one if the person you're talking to is capable of understanding it. And with people like Jessy around, whether illegal stuff is condoned or not, having the section would basically make it 'okay' for 'her' to keep asking kids the things she does. Them 'choosing' to participate (which, they would) doesn't make it any less bad on a moral or legal standpoint. As a side point not directly to you, this isn't some freedom government run website, it's just a privately run thing like almost the entire internet. Enforcing things like this is all about moderator discretion, hell, if they don't like you they can delete your posts for fun - they don't "need" a reason. I doubt any mods would be okay keeping threads around that 1. outright break the law (talking about murdering pets) or 2. possibly involve taking advantage of children (talking to underage users about their sexual habits and so on). Even if the ENTIRE website aside the mods wanted this - they don't have to provide it. If you ask me, moderators should more often delete and lock threads anonymously so that people can't complain to anyone specifically and they can enforce rules at their own discretion without a worry of annoying backlash for doing something like closing a thread specifically created to talk about abusing animals or asking kids about the first time they fucked. This shouldn't even be up for discussion - it was suggested, it was turned down, it should be done with. It's not something that would better the site whatsoever - even if you want to argue it wouldn't WORSEN it, it serves no valuable purpose and if anything attracts a crowd that is probably unwanted. Aside in the casual board I've never really seen discussion that this thread is discussing, its just not needed. All that's needed is better rules for the casual section so it doesn't happen there either. The only other places I see anything remotely 18+ come up are in show specific forums and usually when relevant - plus those don't involve personal stories, just "lol this character is hot post some pics XDDD" or actual relevant-to-the-series discussion that happens to dip into that. It's not like the forums are overrun with people talking about their dicks and vaginas all over the place or anything else along those lines meaning it's not necessary to give them a section just for that, just enforcing the rules a little more would pretty much quell this entire issue. Saying "but so many people want it!" doesn't mean much, people would just say "sure, why not" rather than "OH GOD THIS WEBSITE SERIOUSLY NEEDS THIS". It's a simple situation where people would say okay to it because they don't care - not yes this is necessary to better the website and my experience on it. So saying people want it is kind of meaningless. It's not a matter of people WANTING it, it's just a matter of people not really caring and going with 'sure'. If you look at the responses arguing FOR it, they almost all involve just "yeah, why not", "LOL PORN I LOVE PORN", or are the same couple of people. The only reason nobody really aside me is advocating against it is because - again - nobody really CARES one way or another about this and it's easier to say YEAH THATD BE COOL I GUESS :D than write against it and deal with a debate they don't care about. Just by looking at the forums you can see there is no real support for this idea aside in passing because someone brought it up. It's not something everyone is wishing was here, comes here for, or anything else. And then, again, there's the whole issue of advertising and the fact that they'd have to implement disclaimers and age verification procedures and shit. Besides, mods have already responded and basically said no, I don't see why this is still ongoing. You're debating it with me - but the mods don't really care about it and have all but just straight out said 'no' or - at the very least - 'not any time soon'. There is no agreement that "if you make a good argument your suggestion will get accepted" so this continuing really serves no purpose. They've seen the suggestion, they've declined on it - and as much as I hate saying it like this because it sounds like I'm kissing their asses, arguing against their reasons does nothing but perpetuate a meaningless discussion and make it MORE likely for them to continue to decline it simply because they don't feel like giving someone who tells them the way they feel or think is bullshit. You're free to keep doing it, of course, but I don't see the point now that it's been blatantly turned down several times by mods and pretty clearly has no positive aspect for the site aside for a very small handful of people who - even without discussing that stuff - are perfectly happy with the site as it is. It's unnecessary, would be a pain in the ass, and wouldn't improve the site in any way at all. |
TallonKarrde23Jan 28, 2013 8:08 PM
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TallonKarrde23 said: Besides, mods have already responded and basically said no, I don't see why this is still ongoing. You're debating it with me - but the mods don't really care about it and have all but just straight out said 'no' or - at the very least - 'not any time soon'. There is no agreement that "if you make a good argument your suggestion will get accepted" so this continuing really serves no purpose. My stance on this suggestion is on the same side as TallonKarrde23. I don't really think its a good idea. However, I do understand why people may continue to discuss it. If I really wanted a suggestion to be approved, I would definitely try to keep the thread alive. Doesn't continued discussion correlate to higher support or at least interest in the topic at hand? A suggestion with consistent support by a large portion of a community has a greater chance of being implemented. After all, good moderators often act as the representatives of the users and their preferences. To me, this suggestion is kind of like adding an "Erotica" or "NC-17 DVD" section to a library. In a library, the words "Adult Fiction" do not equate to "Not Safe for Work". Instead, the books there are usually ones that most children or young adults simply wouldn't find as appealing to read or would have difficulty understanding. Yes, there are romance novels with graphic descriptions of sex in most public libraries, but they aren't advertised under a section that says adults only. They're definitely far from being a main attraction for even the adult library goers. Yes, I understand that MAL is not a library. However, I (as well as some others..maybe?) primarily see MAL and its discussion boards as a resource for information, organization, and discussion. Just like having erotic romance novels in a library, I have no qualms about MAL containing entries for hentai and other adult material in its database. I would argue that the value of this site as a comprehensive resource for anime and manga viewers would be greatly reduced if these entries were to be taken off or hidden from view. However, I fear that adding topics that are labeled Adult 18+ with pictures and discussion of NSFW content may detract from the quality of this site. There are plenty of topics that are currently being discussed on the forums that may be considered "adult". Here are a few examples: Juvenile Crime and Punishment; should a heinous monster be excused just because he’s a juvenile? Has Multi-culturalism Failed? Revolutionary movements/activity People majoring in liberal arts - what are you thinking? However, these topics may be considered adult in the adult fiction section of the library sense rather than the NSFW/ADULT 18+ sense. The way things are now, there is still room for open discussion on a large variety of topics that are not restricted to subjects catering to ages under 18. We can talk about sex, rape, murder, suicide, war atrocities, terrorism, and all that "adult" stuff as long as the topic is presented in a delicate manner with a legitimate purpose for discussion and posts that are relevant to that purpose. After reading through most of the previous posts, I still don't understand how the approval of this suggestion will help improve MAL. |
| @TallonKarrde23, I won't bother quoting, too much work to do because I've put them in a different order, anyway, it responds to your post. What Tachii said is "This argument has not been addressed yet and you still want our response.". I suppose the mods will actually check the suggestion thread as a whole, unless you think otherwise, then you can say the Suggestion board is useless. And to all that "The mods can do anything they want" crap, I think common sense is enough to say, that is bullshit. There is no such thing as a functioning system under anarchy. Actually, mods did not say Yes or No, I think you're misinterpreting their responses for what you think. My suggestion already resolves these type of problems, an 18+ thread is for 18+ people (obviously) and those that are NOT of age are the ones that ACCEPTED that MAL is NOT responsible for whatever they see after the warning. I think you did not read the OP, any posts from me or MellowJello either, 18+ threads will NOT break the existent rules (except the one that we need to purge, no discussions on 18+ content, no 18+ pictures etc) and for sure not the laws, off-topic will still be reported, abuse will still be reported, etc. So, your "controlling children", "breaking laws" argument has already been talked about, you're again, exaggerating. I think I've already explained this "It will not be useful to all the community" crap you guys keep throwing, first, this is an ADD-ON, a thread can be started with an 18+ tag or not, the mods can decide if it's 18+ (if it's reported for not/it is 18+), and it's just a simple warning. OH NO REALLY CPT OBVIOUS? THEY HAVE TO CHANGE THE SITE TO IMPLEMENT A NEW SUGGESTION? PLEASE TELL ME MORE. NO REALLY. Okay, I had my good laugh here, so, because it's work, they will not implement it? Oh good, then why still moderate the forums? It takes time after all. And to that "Oh, the people that want this are superficial.", so what? Why do I need 200 people that argue the SAME topic over and over again? Me and MellowJello are enough for that. My suggestion thread proves it, everybody presses yes and I'm like the only one arguing on it, I suppose I'm a really good orator. @Claudius Uhm, I have nothing to say about the "Erotica" part... There's nothing to say, you're pretty much giving your opinion (which is basically, underestimating most teenagers (young adults)). That's double standards. I don't understand your definition of "adult" here. It'll help stop unneeded censorship that could have been avoided if this would have been implemented first, your examples of "adult" topics for me are pretty much "general", which is for everyone, I don't remember seeing any discussions of sex/rape actually being left alone unless it's something trivial like my thread (have sex with your own clone), sex can also be consented from the age of 12 in some countries, so I don't know how that's necessarily "adult matters" either. Teenagers are now seen as "adults" from young ages like 16. Murder/suicide/war atrocities/terrorism are also information that should NEVER be censored, ignorance should be cut down, if you don't even know what's going on around your country, you should seriously rethink your situation. |
Play League of Legends here! Autocrat said: Hitler was good, objectively. |
| @Immahnoob Seeing by the fact that you accuse me of basically underestimating most teenagers, I feel that you've misunderstood my analogy. I never said that young adults or teens or even preteens for that matter are incapable of understanding and appreciating material that would be classified under the adult fiction section of a library. I just wanted to say that the books found there are primarily intended for more mature audiences - not simply due to objectionable content but also due to themes and ideas that may be better understood by or relevant to adults. You also state that the topics that I used as an example of "adult" seem like general discussion. That's exactly my point. I'm saying that we already have topics that can be discussed by all members regardless of age, yet present ideas or themes that are what many would consider mature in nature. Are some young adults and children capable of participating in mature discussions? Yes.. and that's why no one finds it objectionable that these topics are left on the board and often include posts written by younger members under the age of 18. You say that this suggestion, if passed, would help stop unneeded censorship. What kind of topics that were locked in the past did you feel were unnecessarily censored? I for one think that topics such as "How did you lose your virginity?" aren't really relevant or appropriate for a forum that is primarily focused on anime and manga. Can't these types of discussions be saved for other boards where they are more relevant and less offensive? Adult fanfiction sites, adult roleplay sites, and other sites of the sort seem like a better place for these discussions to take place. As you've mentioned, your topic regarding having sex with your own clone was not closed. I, as well as many others, find this topic interesting and worth discussing to an extent and I believe that may be the main reason that it has not been censored. The fact that your topic is still open tells me that we are already given a pretty good amount of latitude in regards to the types of topics that we may open up for discussion here. I'm all for freedom of speech and expression, but you must be considerate of where you are when deciding to discuss certain subjects that may be deemed irrelevant or offensive. |
| Which is the same thing... You've said the same thing in different. "...for a forum that is primarily focused on anime and manga." Here's where you made a mistake. The Forums were not made specifically for Anime/Manga especially because: "General (which has a board for itself) Casual Discussion General interest topics that don't fall into one of the sub-categories above, such as community polls." So, even here, these discussions should take place. "How you lost your virginity" actually has quite a bit of discussion in it if it's a valid story (AKA real). |
Play League of Legends here! Autocrat said: Hitler was good, objectively. |
| @Immahnoob Yes, I did basically say the same thing because my opinion has not changed. I was just trying to relay the points I wanted to get across originally because it was apparent that you did not understand me the first time. Sure, it can be argued that the forums aren't especially for Anime/Manga. Although I did put the qualifier "...primarily focused on anime and manga," I admit that it is a matter of perspective so I won't pursue an argument over it. Regarding your last statement, I don't really see how you learning how anyone really lost their virginity makes the topic any more relevant than learning how someone imagined losing it, but I'd rather not pursue that discussion either. I've basically said everything I wanted to regarding this suggestion already (in fact, I did it twice), and I don't mean to disrespect your views or the views of the other members that are in support of this change. You probably won't see me posting on this topic any further so you can PM me if you really think it's necessary. |
Immahnoob said: What am I trying to say? Try not to be biased with what you're saying, "vast majority" and "such small amount" sounds like a dichotomy to me. The minority I was referring to was the amount of people as a whole who would actually contribute to it. How active would something like that be if it was restricted to only 18+ audiences? I can't see something like that being overpopulated with discussions, and what discussions would go down is what I'm really wondering. As I said before, I'm not completely against the suggestion. Anything additional is all good in my book. I just like change and I would like someone to answer this (Preferably the OP). Why here? There are plenty of better forums out there dedicated to just 18+ topics in several varieties. Really well orientated sites that offer discussions on both hentai and actual pornography (from my experiences, mostly Asian lol), so I'm curious. I've created over 3000+ topics here on MAL and less than five were NSFW topics. For me, if I'm not discussing anime or manga here, it's completely irrelevant. Occasionally I'll find a topic I like in gen- causal discussions area and comment on it, but thats it. You wouldn't find me in a 18+ topic here because I feel there are better places to discuss that. Makes me wonder are people here really that eager to discuss their fetishes like ass over tits, vice versa (lul). |
| Advertisement is the main reason why this suggestion may not be taken seriously by the site's owner/s. It's the lifeblood of any business and your idea may chop a good chunk out of it. |
TsukikageRan said: This would be a lot easier if someone clarified why secret clubs are allowed to have 18+ content. As far as I know, most ad networks specify that there can't be any pornographic content site-wide...Advertisement is the main reason why this suggestion may not be taken seriously by the site's owner/s. It's the lifeblood of any business and your idea may chop a good chunk out of it. |
| My subjective reviews: katsureview.wordpress.com THE CHAT CLUB. |
katsucats said: TsukikageRan said: This would be a lot easier if someone clarified why secret clubs are allowed to have 18+ content. As far as I know, most ad networks specify that there can't be any pornographic content site-wide...Advertisement is the main reason why this suggestion may not be taken seriously by the site's owner/s. It's the lifeblood of any business and your idea may chop a good chunk out of it. *whisper* It's a secret... *whisper* |
Play League of Legends here! Autocrat said: Hitler was good, objectively. |
katsucats said: I don't know if they actually host 18+ pictures though. Because you can link to it or embed it and then there's uploading it as the club profile pic or adding it to the club pictures. I don't think secret clubs can upload those pics, only embed them freely.TsukikageRan said: This would be a lot easier if someone clarified why secret clubs are allowed to have 18+ content. As far as I know, most ad networks specify that there can't be any pornographic content site-wide...Advertisement is the main reason why this suggestion may not be taken seriously by the site's owner/s. It's the lifeblood of any business and your idea may chop a good chunk out of it. Also there's how hidden it is, if someone is in a secret club, they themselves can't go to their profile and see it on their club list. I don't know the exact rules on how you can find them or whatever. But how much they are hidden and checking all of the user's ages could be part of why they are allowed, even though the site may not want them. I think they just compromised on the secret clubs, since they are small. I don't think he wants 18+ pictures on this site. |
IntroverTurtleJan 30, 2013 4:20 PM
Short of the day: Monotonous Purgatory(MAL) ✰Public Domain Club | One Piece Club✰ |
IntroverTurtle said: I forgot. I think the rules are technically that 18+ pictures must be linked to and not embedded. If that's the case, then it would answer the question.katsucats said: I don't know if they actually host 18+ pictures though. Because you can link to it or embed it and then there's uploading it as the club profile pic or adding it to the club pictures. I don't think secret clubs can upload those pics, only embed them freely.TsukikageRan said: This would be a lot easier if someone clarified why secret clubs are allowed to have 18+ content. As far as I know, most ad networks specify that there can't be any pornographic content site-wide...Advertisement is the main reason why this suggestion may not be taken seriously by the site's owner/s. It's the lifeblood of any business and your idea may chop a good chunk out of it. |
| My subjective reviews: katsureview.wordpress.com THE CHAT CLUB. |
| Create Backgrounds for the List also if it is already there can someone tell me |
Immahnoob said: I think Kuro is saying that because you did not add a poll, it looks like not many people agree with this idea. Yet there are 12 pages, while my suggestion that has ~130 (don't wanna check) votes has only 5 pages... Wait, how many actual forumers are there online at max? Oh yeah, about 600... How many actually post... Not even half? Hey, I can't actually provide any evidence, just like you can't about "the vast majority of people" and the "small amount of people" that like this idea. What am I trying to say? Try not to be biased with what you're saying, "vast majority" and "such small amount" sounds like a dichotomy to me. I think a lot of people like me just see that topic, think to themselves 'wtf that seems so unnecessary that I can't fathom it being implemented so I don't even bother posting'. So you got the same people posting here that posted on page 1 because they want to adjust MAL to their personal needs (or like to argue back in some cases) - that's the impression I got while skimming through the thread. And just because 10 users in this thread are more active than the average user doesn't mean it's still only 10 users (random number). Because it's normal for people who are interested in or support a suggestion to reply while most people who don't care (unless they're not aggressively against it and the suggestion is seriously considered by the mods) will just walk past it. I'm inherently against this suggestion because making MAL more of a pornographic platform (and don't pretend that wouldn't be 95% of the results or more) would NOT attract the kind of users I like to chat and discuss with. Seriously, a while back there was this argument about how first expressions of a forum shape the userbase and especially the flow of new users, and this would over short or long make MAL very unattractive for me. I'd probably end up reverting to only using the list feature and join other communities for discussion. Go to Fakku or whereever else if you really have to 'discuss' your NSFM pics. I'm only replying now because utter boredom led me to this thread, I'm not expecting the mods to implement this in the first place and can just hope I'm not wrong with that. The vast silent or infrequently active majority would side with me I'm convinced, if you forced them to reply (but most of them don't have as much free time as I do that raises their boredom level as high as to warrant a second look at this suggestion). While a lot of people who would maybe support it don't visit the forums and stay in their private NSFM clubs. That system has worked since before I joined so I don't see the slightest need to adjust it. Not trying to start an argument by the way, just giving a statement. Because I want to avoid my ignoring this topic being interpreted as anything but disagreement. |
| I probably regret this post by now. |
| On paper this would be no problem, yeah, on paper, but I just thought of the current state of MAL, where nobody reads the rules and nobody uses the report function either. This won't work at all, so I'm basically saying "No" to this idea myself. |
Play League of Legends here! Autocrat said: Hitler was good, objectively. |
TallonKarrde23 said: Some of her(?) threads deal with illegal things, like animal cruelty and abuse. Other threads of hers tend to attract young kids into talking about their masturbation habits and so on - which, just like the animal thing, is very close to being law breaking in no small way, not to mention makes this an extremely unsafe environment for children. There's a big difference between a lewd screenshot from some borderline hentai like DxD and a person going around asking real minors how they like to rub one out or talking about murdering a domesticated pet. This one made me lol. I had completely forgotten about that thread. I still don't see what type of sensitive 12 year old would be damaged in any way by stumbling upon a thread on the internet asking about fapping habits. If I had to extend to showing that kind of considerance to everybody on the internet, then I'd constantly have to censor myself. TallonKarrde23 said: Hell, you can't even prove Jenny isn't a known sex offender specifically making those types of threads for disgusting deviant and illegal purposes, because it's the internet we don't even know who that user actually is or what their intents are. What illegal purposes? Please, elaborate TallonKarrde23 said: What we SHOULD do to keep MAL all-ages - and more importantly SAFE FOR CHILDREN - is have the moderation team actually close these topics immediately instead of letting them sit for days, as well as banning repeat offenders on site. What are we keeping them safe from exactly? Pedophiles? edit: Looks like some people are just never going to drop that whole deal about killing pets. Some people sure are very petty around here |
BryanBosslingJan 31, 2013 11:16 AM
| Come visit my town // I apologize in advance for my second-rate English Join my fan club // Improve the transport network |
| Keep any discussions you might have, on topic. |
| Whew, I finally have the energy to post in here (after a 4 day "vacation"), and it's just fallen into the area of too-much-work-to-respond territory. Wish I could respond to all of the negative opinion here, but alas, I pulled the "I'm lazy" card. And given that all of the mods opinions have been stated here or through private messages, I'm inclined to say that this suggestion is done with. I gotta say, I'm really surprised at the MAL community for mostly treating this as a serious suggestion. I mean look at this topic! 13 pages! Who would've thought that a simple line such as Support the creation of 18+ content threads here! could stir up so much traffic? I sure didn't. Sure, it's a hotly conspicuous suggestion, but most other suggestions barely get one page worth of feedback.In the end, I'm glad I brought this suggestion up. Everyone in here probably knows it would never happen. It's a pretty easy conclusion to reach, really. I didn't post the suggestion hoping to make a change, I posted it to express dissent at how the treatment of the "count to 9000" and "gif war" threads were handled. With that in mind, I didn't expect it to explode outside the range of what I could argue. Thanks again guys for all the posts made in here, whether it be those long-winding debates *cough* Immahnoob, or those "omg it's a porn suggestion" posts. So with this suggestion at a close, I'd like to quote one of the earliest posts of the thread: Hidden_Joker said: Now, we will be able to say that we at least tried. By the way, if anyone happens to see this text, I'm thinking of making another suggestion whenever I get to 3000 posts. It's along the lines of the report feature. Stay tuned! |
| Lol I don't get the legal liability argument. Currently MAL is more liable allowing NSFW content to be viewed in spoilers than they would be with 18+ threads, since only having the content in spoilers allows the NSFW content to be viewed without confirming anyone's age. |
| I don't have a signature. |
AiCon said: You can already post NSFW pics or links as long as they are relevant, they just have to be under a spoiler labeled NSFW.I'd love for us to be able to post NSFW pictures. It would make things more fun here. I do wonder on the lag that people would get since I'm sure that there will always be idiots who would post multiple huge HQ pics. Those would be a nightmare. Other than that I'm all for this idea. |
Short of the day: Monotonous Purgatory(MAL) ✰Public Domain Club | One Piece Club✰ |
IntroverTurtle said: You're not supposed to post NSFW pics.AiCon said: You can already post NSFW pics or links as long as they are relevant, they just have to be under a spoiler labeled NSFW.I'd love for us to be able to post NSFW pictures. It would make things more fun here. I do wonder on the lag that people would get since I'm sure that there will always be idiots who would post multiple huge HQ pics. Those would be a nightmare. Other than that I'm all for this idea. NSFM pictures may not be embedded into forum posts. However, a link to the picture may be posted in spoiler tags and labeled; i.e.: NSFM: |
| My subjective reviews: katsureview.wordpress.com THE CHAT CLUB. |
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