| In the past I wrote the thread ...why is Miyazaki treated like an anime authority?, though I wasn't the best with my words. I was criticizing the main thesis of a video, which seemed to threat anime as "Pure, untainted by capital" artform created by Tezuka, continued by Miyazaki, and that the fact that current anime isn't like this would mean that the artform was "corrupted", "stolen from Miyazaki". I argued that it is rubbish, because modern Ghibli isn't the father of modern anime, but rather the "cousin": Miyazaki hated Tezuka, Miyazaki hated the industry since the 70's, and the 70's can be said to when such "schism" happened. MushiPro went bankrupt, but that also served as a supernova for the disciples of Tezuka who would create the stuff which made the industry what it is today. In the 70's, the tradition of Miyazaki would be working on World Masterpiece Theater stuff, while the "Tezukans" would be working on the 70's merchandising-focused anime that saved the industry back them. Everything that is "otaku culture" kinda evolves from that. Recently I finished Girls Band Cry, whose one of the main plots is how a specific song about making a difficult decision and go forward with it without regret makes two people and two bands split paths, each feeling like the "True follower" of that song. One side, the Hina/Diamond Dust one represents the "realist" path, one of jaded concessions, but concessions needed for things to work, even if they might not seem right at first, and they're rewarded for that. The other side, the Nina/TogeToge one, represents the "idealist" path, but they're always suffering and being punished for it somehow. The former group always wants to rub in the faces of the latter how they were the ones that made the right choice, but at the same time there's also the dynamic that they do want to see Nina/TogeToge succeed in the "idealist" path, they want to see they prove that it is possible. I could see parallels in the two situations: One could say that Miyazakians are TogeToge and Tezukans are Diamond Dust, after all the latter "sold out" while the former went on with their 'handcrafted approach", but I feel that there are also arguments to the opposite: The World Masterpiece Theater formula was a safe one, a successful one. You could've just kept doing those European co-productions, you could just ride the wave of being "Accepted" by Disney in the west and continue with the movies made for the general public, the entire family... but when described like that, doesn't it sound Diamond Dust? Meanwhile, the Tezukans made the choice everyone would think it's stupid: Trying to make an industry out of niche animation for perverts and weirdos. I think there's a bit of TogeToge here. What's your opinion on the subject? |
| diamond dust is a reference to saint seiya |
    |
thewiru said: Which is TogeToge I guess maybe this one: |
| Let's go toge toge diamond dust. |
| I think I like anime without miyazaki's politics. |
| 馬鹿げた倫理 全部ガラクタで |
| I lost interest in this post at "Recently I finished Girls Band Cry". What kind of medieval collage from random texts is this thing here? How this approach is meant to find any type of answer? This is strait out mysticism. "I could see parallels in the two situations" OP should read Foucault Pendulum. Not only this book is fun, but showcases how nonsensical things can get when you make random parallels to everything and start to explain the modern history with some sort of plan...said plan hitting a snag...people try to compensate those mistakes...said people overcompensating ect. (By the way, one short part of the book takes place in Brazil.) "The World Masterpiece Theater formula was a safe one, a successful one." There are experiments in WMT tho, many of the stories aren't strait out adaptions, but some sort of reinterpretation and rearrangement. Tom Sawyer for example has only few scenes lifted from the books, than some changes to the story and ideas taken from the sequel books. than added as original plot threads. There's even one WMT which is not based on a book - Tico of the Seven Seas. You see, there's no guarantee that one formula will always be successful, so you are kind of forced to be creative. |
alshuYesterday, 1:20 PM
| I don't know TogeToge, but when I hear about something that's called "Diamond Dust", I immediately think about Cygnus Hyoga. |
"The Tezukan and Miyakazian traditions: Which is TogeToge and which is Diamond Dust?"  |
 |
| What contemporary audiences see as otaku pandering work owes at least as much to Miyazaki's lolicon as it does to Tezuka. This goes back into the early 80s when the early otaku were the only ones who knew Miyazaki and he was making science fiction + lolicon stuff that was closer to the central tendency of specifically otaku culture |
thewiru said: Meanwhile, the Tezukans made the choice everyone would think it's stupid: Trying to make an industry out of niche animation for perverts and weirdos. Astro Boy Jungle Emperor Princess Knight Ashira no Joe Doraemon Cyborg 009 Sally the Witch Tetsujin 28 Space Battleship Yamato These were all made by Tezuka, his anime studio, or his former manga assistants. They weren't for perverts and weirdos. |
| その目だれの目？ |
Reply to Lucifrost
thewiru said:
Meanwhile, the Tezukans made the choice everyone would think it's stupid: Trying to make an industry out of niche animation for perverts and weirdos.
Meanwhile, the Tezukans made the choice everyone would think it's stupid: Trying to make an industry out of niche animation for perverts and weirdos.
Astro Boy
Jungle Emperor
Princess Knight
Ashira no Joe
Doraemon
Cyborg 009
Sally the Witch
Tetsujin 28
Space Battleship Yamato
These were all made by Tezuka, his anime studio, or his former manga assistants. They weren't for perverts and weirdos.
| @Lucifrost Yamato jumpstarted the trend of works focused on otaku, come-on. |
thewiru said: Yamato jumpstarted the trend of works focused on otaku, come-on. Maybe it helped popularizing space opera and stuff, but how is it directly related to Tezuka? How is that part of the "tezukan tradition"? Yes, the studio was created by ex Mushi Production employees, but Leiji Matsumoto brought his and his brother's nerdiness to the mix. Also Tezuka and Miyazaki were equally fascinated by sci-fi. |
alshu2 hours ago
Reply to alshu
thewiru said:
Yamato jumpstarted the trend of works focused on otaku, come-on.
Yamato jumpstarted the trend of works focused on otaku, come-on.
Maybe it helped popularizing space opera and stuff, but how is it directly related to Tezuka? How is that part of the "tezukan tradition"?
Yes, the studio was created by ex Mushi Production employees, but Leiji Matsumoto brought his and his brother's nerdiness to the mix.
Also Tezuka and Miyazaki were equally fascinated by sci-fi.
| @alshu Yeah, the term "Tezukan" kinda sucks, it is less about being related to Tezuka and more about what came after MushiPro went under. |
Reply to thewiru
@alshu
Yeah, the term "Tezukan" kinda sucks, it is less about being related to Tezuka and more about what came after MushiPro went under.
Yeah, the term "Tezukan" kinda sucks, it is less about being related to Tezuka and more about what came after MushiPro went under.
| @thewiru Maybe the most distinctive difference between Tezuka and Miyazaki as authors is: exploiting and expanding trends vs having an unique personal take on classic themes. What the industry did with those approaches is too chaotic an unsystematic to generalize on. |
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