| I would find it hard to believe that she still - or ever - loved me. I would rather find someone else than go through a second wave with someone who might just be forcing themselves to show me "love". |
 |
| They deserve a second chance, everybody makes mistakes. |
Ex-AidMar 7, 7:34 AM
| No. The cheater clearly never valued the relationship. The only reason they'd want it to continue is the convenience of things staying the same. |
DreamWindow said: If you are in an abusive relationship, why the fuck would you put yourself in danger even further, by risking getting caught with another person? And even putting that aside, even in the purely hypothetical realm, this is already an insanely toxic scenario, to the point where the cheating wouldn't even be the main issue at fault here. If your argument to justify cheating it to put it up against a much more heinous act such as that, then it's pretty telling of the real flimsiness of the argument. The second example is so cartoonishly obscure and rare it's practically irrelevant, and again, obscures the real issue by using an even more egregious act by other participants. But also misses the point, since the intent factor, that makes cheating a betrayal is not there. This is a response to an argument made by no one. The point isn't "should" it is just what some people might wind up doing unplanned. DreamWindow said: If someone cheats on you, and tells you "it's no one's fault", because their was a lack of communication, then that person is toxic. YES the responsibility ABSOLUTELY falls on the person who cheated in that scenario. It's completely disgusting to argue otherwise. The solution to a lack of communication is either building communication, or ending the relationship. Not by adding another wrong to it. I never said someone saying anything. I never said nor implied they should cheat as if that is a solution either. DreamWindow said: So? What, they were hurt, and so they shouldn't take any responsibility for breaching the terms of the relationship? If they do that in the heat of the moment, they need to talk to their partner about it. If they don't, they're a scumbag. And either way, it still doesn't write the wrong. They still fucked up, and they still need to take the responsibility for it. It is a reality of how when some people are in a certain mental state their brain isn't functioning normally so one couldn't view it as same as in other situations. Would you still be making such a claim if someone was so drunk they are barely conscious? I never suggested they shouldn't tell them and never implied it is a good thing. You seem to be using black and white thinking here. DreamWindow said: Nobody is arguing this!!!! If you find yourself glancing at another woman / man, maybe you could consider that an unconscious decision (though unlikely), sure, but that in of itself is not cheating, and muddling it down with all this bullshit is actually destructive to this discussion, and obscures responsibility once again. Not here not now but nowhere? No. I was not making a strawman argument if that is what you are trying to claim. DreamWindow said: Literally irrelevant. People are willing to forgive their abusers, but that doesn't mean their abuse was justified. People need to take responsibility for their actions. Full stop. None of this whataboutism bullshit. The topic is "do cheater's deserve a second chance?". The opinion of any outsider to the relationship isn't the final deciding factor so it is very much relevant. Forgiveness is not the same thing as justification. Forgiveness is an act of understanding and accepting of an apology not a statement of their moral standards. That was never the point. The point is actions happening for different reasons and different actions taking place are not all equal. Cneq said: @DreamWindow Good response, wouldn't of said it any better myself. After seeing how utterly deranged the responses from @traed and @littleowlbear were they simply did not deserve any effort of a response from me. It's honestly sick how people have such little self respect for themselves that they would be fine with letting themselves be exposed to such injustice from a person who no matter what should be their most trusted and loyal companion. The only way I can see people being okay with it is if they NEED someone by them to be okay in life and thus get roped into a TOXIC relationship where someone else has that level of power over you and you're completely fine with it. A relationship should be a two-body team built on equality and complete loyalty and anything less is simply a joke that only invites more issues when you could be far better on your own [if you were actually a capable, intelligent and successful individual, which most clearly aren't]. I am romantically focused and hate seeing people hurt in relationships and don't find it odd if they feel hurt by it. I don't think cheating should be the norm, I just care enough to consider every nuance. I never said I would be okay with someone cheating on me. I said I don't really know how Id actually react since there is many factors and I have enough awareness to admit I couldn't know. Everyone says they would never forgive but then still can. I am acknowledging this reality. I also do not intend on cheating on someone I really love. Yes, I'm not disagreeing so long as "loyalty" doesn't mean something like some abusive expectations like cutting someone off from friends. Not that I am accusing you of anything there. |
traedFeb 28, 3:03 AM
| In my opinion no, if a person cheats on you one time they will do it again even if they say the opposite. They will commit the same action sooner or later so there is no obligation to you to give them a second chance, if you do it it is your fault if it happens again. |
| No, for me that'd be the end of it. The trust would be completely broken and I imagine I'd be paranoid all the time if I stayed with them. Better to end things and move on in my opinion. |
Reply to traed
DreamWindow said:
If you are in an abusive relationship, why the fuck would you put yourself in danger even further, by risking getting caught with another person? And even putting that aside, even in the purely hypothetical realm, this is already an insanely toxic scenario, to the point where the cheating wouldn't even be the main issue at fault here. If your argument to justify cheating it to put it up against a much more heinous act such as that, then it's pretty telling of the real flimsiness of the argument.
The second example is so cartoonishly obscure and rare it's practically irrelevant, and again, obscures the real issue by using an even more egregious act by other participants. But also misses the point, since the intent factor, that makes cheating a betrayal is not there. This is a response to an argument made by no one.
If you are in an abusive relationship, why the fuck would you put yourself in danger even further, by risking getting caught with another person? And even putting that aside, even in the purely hypothetical realm, this is already an insanely toxic scenario, to the point where the cheating wouldn't even be the main issue at fault here. If your argument to justify cheating it to put it up against a much more heinous act such as that, then it's pretty telling of the real flimsiness of the argument.
The second example is so cartoonishly obscure and rare it's practically irrelevant, and again, obscures the real issue by using an even more egregious act by other participants. But also misses the point, since the intent factor, that makes cheating a betrayal is not there. This is a response to an argument made by no one.
The point isn't "should" it is just what some people might wind up doing unplanned.
DreamWindow said:
If someone cheats on you, and tells you "it's no one's fault", because their was a lack of communication, then that person is toxic. YES the responsibility ABSOLUTELY falls on the person who cheated in that scenario. It's completely disgusting to argue otherwise. The solution to a lack of communication is either building communication, or ending the relationship. Not by adding another wrong to it.
If someone cheats on you, and tells you "it's no one's fault", because their was a lack of communication, then that person is toxic. YES the responsibility ABSOLUTELY falls on the person who cheated in that scenario. It's completely disgusting to argue otherwise. The solution to a lack of communication is either building communication, or ending the relationship. Not by adding another wrong to it.
I never said someone saying anything. I never said nor implied they should cheat as if that is a solution either.
DreamWindow said:
So? What, they were hurt, and so they shouldn't take any responsibility for breaching the terms of the relationship? If they do that in the heat of the moment, they need to talk to their partner about it. If they don't, they're a scumbag. And either way, it still doesn't write the wrong. They still fucked up, and they still need to take the responsibility for it.
So? What, they were hurt, and so they shouldn't take any responsibility for breaching the terms of the relationship? If they do that in the heat of the moment, they need to talk to their partner about it. If they don't, they're a scumbag. And either way, it still doesn't write the wrong. They still fucked up, and they still need to take the responsibility for it.
It is a reality of how when some people are in a certain mental state their brain isn't functioning normally so one couldn't view it as same as in other situations. Would you still be making such a claim if someone was so drunk they are barely conscious? I never suggested they shouldn't tell them and never implied it is a good thing. You seem to be using black and white thinking here.
DreamWindow said:
Nobody is arguing this!!!! If you find yourself glancing at another woman / man, maybe you could consider that an unconscious decision (though unlikely), sure, but that in of itself is not cheating, and muddling it down with all this bullshit is actually destructive to this discussion, and obscures responsibility once again.
Nobody is arguing this!!!! If you find yourself glancing at another woman / man, maybe you could consider that an unconscious decision (though unlikely), sure, but that in of itself is not cheating, and muddling it down with all this bullshit is actually destructive to this discussion, and obscures responsibility once again.
Not here not now but nowhere? No. I was not making a strawman argument if that is what you are trying to claim.
DreamWindow said:
Literally irrelevant. People are willing to forgive their abusers, but that doesn't mean their abuse was justified.
People need to take responsibility for their actions. Full stop. None of this whataboutism bullshit.
Literally irrelevant. People are willing to forgive their abusers, but that doesn't mean their abuse was justified.
People need to take responsibility for their actions. Full stop. None of this whataboutism bullshit.
The topic is "do cheater's deserve a second chance?". The opinion of any outsider to the relationship isn't the final deciding factor so it is very much relevant. Forgiveness is not the same thing as justification. Forgiveness is an act of understanding and accepting of an apology not a statement of their moral standards.
That was never the point. The point is actions happening for different reasons and different actions taking place are not all equal.
Cneq said:
@DreamWindow Good response, wouldn't of said it any better myself.
After seeing how utterly deranged the responses from @traed and @littleowlbear were they simply did not deserve any effort of a response from me.
It's honestly sick how people have such little self respect for themselves that they would be fine with letting themselves be exposed to such injustice from a person who no matter what should be their most trusted and loyal companion.
The only way I can see people being okay with it is if they NEED someone by them to be okay in life and thus get roped into a TOXIC relationship where someone else has that level of power over you and you're completely fine with it.
A relationship should be a two-body team built on equality and complete loyalty and anything less is simply a joke that only invites more issues when you could be far better on your own [if you were actually a capable, intelligent and successful individual, which most clearly aren't].
@DreamWindow Good response, wouldn't of said it any better myself.
After seeing how utterly deranged the responses from @traed and @littleowlbear were they simply did not deserve any effort of a response from me.
It's honestly sick how people have such little self respect for themselves that they would be fine with letting themselves be exposed to such injustice from a person who no matter what should be their most trusted and loyal companion.
The only way I can see people being okay with it is if they NEED someone by them to be okay in life and thus get roped into a TOXIC relationship where someone else has that level of power over you and you're completely fine with it.
A relationship should be a two-body team built on equality and complete loyalty and anything less is simply a joke that only invites more issues when you could be far better on your own [if you were actually a capable, intelligent and successful individual, which most clearly aren't].
I am romantically focused and hate seeing people hurt in relationships and don't find it odd if they feel hurt by it. I don't think cheating should be the norm, I just care enough to consider every nuance.
I never said I would be okay with someone cheating on me. I said I don't really know how Id actually react since there is many factors and I have enough awareness to admit I couldn't know. Everyone says they would never forgive but then still can. I am acknowledging this reality. I also do not intend on cheating on someone I really love.
Yes, I'm not disagreeing so long as "loyalty" doesn't mean something like some abusive expectations like cutting someone off from friends. Not that I am accusing you of anything there.
traed said: The point isn't "should" it is just what some people might wind up doing unplanned. And the bottom line is that it's still wrong. What is so hard to understand about that? Who the fuck cares if it was on a whim? They still need to take responsibility for it. traed said: I never said someone saying anything. I never said nor implied they should cheat as if that is a solution either. you certainly provided the justification for why someone would make that statement. a partner being cheated on in some cases can be as equally not communicating things well or even sometimes more on the side of the person cheated on, causing a rift in the relationship where a situation where cheating wouldn't have previously been a possibility can occur. Saying that the person who got cheated on, is equally responsible for the relationship falling apart, and therefore, for the person cheating, gives way to much leeway for such a toxic act, and blames the victim for the actions of the cheater. Don't try to dial back with your tail between your legs, saying "ohhh I didn't say that", when you left this argument wide open for the toxic behaviour in the first place. traed said: It is a reality of how when some people are in a certain mental state their brain isn't functioning normally so one couldn't view it as same as in other situations. Would you still be making such a claim if someone was so drunk they are barely conscious? I never suggested they shouldn't tell them and never implied it is a good thing. You seem to be using black and white thinking here. What a pathetic excuse. "I wasn't functioning normally". Nobody cares, that doesn't justify that person's behaviour. But such an excuse is used all the time to get off the hook when terrible things happen. It's a sign of cowardice, and is still inexcusable. You could very well say "oh I just got caught up in the moment", for literally any situation. And I would argue those who do this, very much well are trying to get away with it. Even if, for some reason, the partner went out drinking alone, yes, of course I would hold the same standard! if they were drunk they still need to take the responsibility for it. Why wouldn't they? If something like that happens, tell your god damn partner. You seem to be making every excuse possible to hand wave toxic behaviour. It's not "caring" it's actually hurtful if people accept this line of thinking in relationships. It can get them seriously hurt. Do you not see that? traed said: Not here not now but nowhere? No. I was not making a strawman argument if that is what you are trying to claim. Nobody was making the argument that simply looking at someone is cheating. You're just using it to muddy the waters. What I meant, is that nobody is making that argument, they are speaking of people specifically breaching the trust of a relationship. But you're just trying to find every possible corner case even though they are completely irrelevant. traed said: The topic is "do cheater's deserve a second chance?". The opinion of any outsider to the relationship isn't the final deciding factor so it is very much relevant. Forgiveness is not the same thing as justification. Forgiveness is an act of understanding and accepting of an apology not a statement of their moral standards. That was never the point. The point is actions happening for different reasons and different actions taking place are not all equal. Who the fuck cares if they are not equal? The bottom line is that they always need to take the responsibility for it. That is the next logical step after an action. I know you are not this dense. The responsibility follows the action, whether you want to acknoledge it or not, because they will find out, and it will be much worse for both parties at that point. Again, this is serious, and shouldn't be taken so lightly with seemingly infinite avenues for justification. traed said: I just care enough to consider every nuance. It's not "caring" when you are trying to bat for people who are doing the cheating... even blaming the victims in the case above for the relationship failing, instead of actually applying judgment where it matters. If you actually cared about people cheating, and don't want to make it the norm, then don't fucking bat for people who cheat. You should be pushing for healthy relationships, not analyzing potential reasons for shitty ones. @Cneq He doubled down lol. |
DreamWindowFeb 28, 6:38 PM
 This ground is soiled by those before me and their lies. I dare not look up for on me I feel their eyes |
Reply to rohan121
I would say if the women cheats the man should leave. If a man cheats than it is up to the woman. A lot of men might get upset at the idea, but the truth is playboy chad is still way more desirable than an average 9-5 5"9 normie who would never cheat.
The big reason cheating is so bad is that men do not want paternity fraud and raise another man's kids. Women care far less for cheating since they can't ever have a kid that is not theirs by DNA.
The big reason cheating is so bad is that men do not want paternity fraud and raise another man's kids. Women care far less for cheating since they can't ever have a kid that is not theirs by DNA.
| @rohan121 I wonder how this rule would apply to a homo couple. @traed my friend don't you ever get tired of arguing silly things in a silly place? |
| Today they say you're crazy, tomorrow they will say you're a genious. |
| I mean yeah why not. just because someone fucking around, doesn't mean they hate their partner. Same thing if they spent time with their friends, doesn't mean they don't enjoy having a quality time with their partner. Relationship is more than sex. |
| . |
| No. It's true that when you love someone it's not that easy to end everything, but if you're gonna give cheaters another chance and then they cheat again, you've no one to blame but yourself. Why would you give someone who hurt you emotionally and mentally another chance to hurt you??? |
| And that's a huge nope from me. I do not think cheater's deserve a second chance in the relationship... once that certain trust was broken, it most likely won't ever come back. |
 ✧ forum set by the amazing, yashika-chwan <3 ✧ |
| With someone else? Maybe if they genuinely regret their actions and better themselves before they enter a new romantic relationship that is intended to be more steady or if they come clean from the start and only have casual relationships With the same person? Nope, it would not be advisable at all, because it's a fundamental principle to have trust in a committed relation that you are the only one for them (not talking about poly and/or other casual relationship which don't appear serious in the first place) |
FragMentized said: @traed my friend don't you ever get tired of arguing silly things in a silly place? I just get tired of people going out of their way to misrepresent things I say just because I generally have nuance and balance in my views that dont neatly fit their imagined boogeymen. |
| Yes, I do believe they do IMO. Everyone deserves a second chance. |
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